I had an ND into the floor of a 2nd story apartment about 10 years ago before I took training seriously. I first ran down with a medkit but thankfully it didn't get through. There were people downstairs who did call the cops (they were very polite about it, I talked to the operator and the cops showed up calmly). They basically searched my place, found the bullet hole in the carpet (I had to help them it was so hard to find), ran my guns serial numbers and said "if anyone was hurt you'd be going in for a felony, but we really appreciate your upfrontness and think its best to just part ways." I didn't even get a ticket. I didn't realize back then how close I came to ruining my life outside of the risk of harm from the shot, had I asked them not to call they probably wouldn't have.
I think most people here appreciate you sharing your story, but there are a lot of people on the internet and I would consider not sharing this info publically.
@@SushiArmageddon If you can give me some tangible reason how this would hurt me I'd appreciate that, but rote "oh don't say that online" doesn't really scare me. I'm not concerned about that state deciding they want to charge me with a felony all these years later, no one is going to sue me over that and I don't see it being harmful if I'm ever in court considering it was 10 years and hundreds of hours of training ago. Plus I'm sure it exists in that locations police records so its out there anyways.
@@Dan-cm9ow someone could use the information to smear your character. I am not fearful that you would get in trouble directly but there are a lot of situations where information like this is better kept private like during a custody hearing.
@@SushiArmageddon I admire your character if a story this innocuous makes it onto your radar of "it could be used for smearing." If my partner wanted custody from me she'd have no trouble. My spicy meme folder alone would probably get a feminist judge to rule against me haha.
I’m glad my only ND so far in life was at an outdoor gun range when I was practicing with my non-dominant hand. As I raised the weapon up to aim at the target, I just squeezed the trigger accidentally at about 45° not being used to using my non-dominant hand. Round went into the ground about 5 yards or so out and I was good. It definitely served as a wake up call of how easy it is to have an ND when your finger is on the trigger before you are ready to fire.
I believe James Yeager said it best: There are two kinds of people, those who have had a negligent discharge and those who have not had one yet. If you believe that you are too ‘good’ to have it happen to you, then you are more likely to let your guard down. Having that fear that it may happen one day causes you to be more cautious and attentive.
Butterfield's Tune isn't needed and I'll laugh at his jokes so long as I breathe. I figure he'd approve and include some colorful metaphor to drive it home. As for me, I'm exactly one of that kind of persons. In my defense, there was a fire inside my moving vehicle with me as only occupant at the occasion but "direction of least consequence" gained the day even if hand brake found purchase on the bang switch. (An argument for cruiser ready and a range check of trigger block functionality even with a drop safe unit of gauge.) A little Bondo, paint, tinnitus and check of undies. Lessons learned.
These kinds of consequences for what is ultimately an accident makes a mockery of the principle “there is no crime where there is not criminal intent”.
My negligent discharge story: I was waiting on my coworker to carpool to work early in the morning, I had 3 1911’s, 2 Springfield armory’s and a Kimber; I was “dry firing” (ok I was playing with my guns) and I noticed the one 1911 hammer would fall to half cock when I racked the slide, wondering if the other 1911 would do the same thing, I picked it up, pointed it at the wall and pulled the trigger and sure as the sun comes up in the East, BANG!; this was probably 4am as we had to be to work at 5, never called the police, and I still have hearing damage in my right ear, lost a blender and had to repair the dent in the corner of the wall
I had an ND when I was about 22. I was unloading my pistol at home and my was racking my pistol incorrectly. I called the police on myself, I didn’t call 911 just non emergency line. When I got a call back from the local PD they told me they were out of my jurisdiction and that the area I was in was under state police at that time of day. He told me that if I know exactly where the round went and no one was hurt unless someone else calls the cops I should just keep my mouth shut. I took his advice.
This is exactly why I have a second, exact replica of my carry firearm for dry fire. It stays with a laser trainer in the barrel, as well as a magazine with a MagBlok in it. It is my backup gun for my training firearm and carry firearm in case either would break (okay, so yes, I own 3 of exactly the same firearm). Pricey choice, but lots cheaper than paying Tim's mortgage!
I was practicing my draw to first shot dry, got done and reloaded/holstered my gun, got sidetracked with something and thought I'd do another presentation. Drew down and pulled the trigger about half way before remembering that I was about to put a 124 grain gold dot through the wall.
A salesperson at my local FFL shop is with the opinion that a manual safety leads to ND's because the owner becomes reliant on the safety to protect them from an ND, and thus will fiddle with the trigger on the false expectation that the safety is engaged. I countered that forming a habit of pulling the trigger without properly clearing the firearm regardless of having a manual safety creates the risk of an ND. Thoughts on this anyone?
Worked on a roof in Seattle with no trees around it but there was a hole near the ridge and we couldn't figure out what caused it, patched it up and talked to the owner later, brother ND'd 'cleaning his gun'😅
The news story from the video with the guard says that he did not have his finger on the trigger - he had an ID badge on a lanyard around his neck and it caught on the trigger.
What about a ND (of no consequence) in an unincorporated area/rural county, outside of city limits, far enough away from occupied structures, camp sites, etc.?
Feel free to laugh at my ND story. I was 19 at that time and this was my ND. I use to have some cheap Airsoft 1911 that mom bought for me when I was 17. One day I loaded up the mag, rack, put a round in the chamber, put the safety on, toss that thing in my backpack and toss the bag into the closet. I think a few weeks later or something I was cleaning my bedroom, went into the closet and I found the backpack. I search the bag and found the airsoft pistol. I remember that "it had a mag inside" so I remove the mag, switch the safety off, point the gun at the window......and...."HUGE POP" noise. Good thing the window didn't break cuz mom would of killed me 8 times over.
I am not a lawyer, but I am not sure I agree with the notion of claiming negligence after an unintentional discharge. If your round may have hit someone's property or person, I think "accidental discharge" is the language you would be better served to use when discussing your incident with the police, the injured party, or anyone else for that matter.
I'd love to know what percent of Negligent Discharges happen from someone pulling the trigger to remove the slide? I read of ND's 6-8 times per year in my local police reports, "... while cleaming his gun discharged a round through the wall of his neighbor's apartment/ ... into the floor of his home/ ... into his own hand." Because striker fired pistols require you to pull the trigger to strip the slide I bought an H&K P30 hammer fire that does not require this action, along with many other reasons to buy H&K.
Guilty of that also. Wanted to show my dad how easy it was to disassemble while riding in his truck. Empty gun got loaded after pulling back the slide, locking it, flipping takedown lever, releasing slide and then that wonderful pull of the trigger. Right through the dash, luckily no one was hurt and the truck was fine. Will haunt me the rest of my days.
Acts of negligence are accidents (maybe not always, but I have a hard time thinking of something intentional happening through carelessness or inattentiveness), but not all accidents are acts of negligence; therefore, all NDs are also ADs. I understand the point of making the distinction - to reinforce the fact that the shooter is responsible for the discharge, but the terms are not mutually exclusive.
An ND should be a misdemeanor, not a felony.
If no one is harmed then it shouldn’t be a crime in the first place.
@@TheShalomstead Agreed
I had an ND into the floor of a 2nd story apartment about 10 years ago before I took training seriously. I first ran down with a medkit but thankfully it didn't get through. There were people downstairs who did call the cops (they were very polite about it, I talked to the operator and the cops showed up calmly). They basically searched my place, found the bullet hole in the carpet (I had to help them it was so hard to find), ran my guns serial numbers and said "if anyone was hurt you'd be going in for a felony, but we really appreciate your upfrontness and think its best to just part ways." I didn't even get a ticket. I didn't realize back then how close I came to ruining my life outside of the risk of harm from the shot, had I asked them not to call they probably wouldn't have.
I think most people here appreciate you sharing your story, but there are a lot of people on the internet and I would consider not sharing this info publically.
@@SushiArmageddon If you can give me some tangible reason how this would hurt me I'd appreciate that, but rote "oh don't say that online" doesn't really scare me. I'm not concerned about that state deciding they want to charge me with a felony all these years later, no one is going to sue me over that and I don't see it being harmful if I'm ever in court considering it was 10 years and hundreds of hours of training ago. Plus I'm sure it exists in that locations police records so its out there anyways.
@@Dan-cm9ow someone could use the information to smear your character. I am not fearful that you would get in trouble directly but there are a lot of situations where information like this is better kept private like during a custody hearing.
@@Dan-cm9ow but do what you want man I did find your story interesting.
@@SushiArmageddon I admire your character if a story this innocuous makes it onto your radar of "it could be used for smearing." If my partner wanted custody from me she'd have no trouble. My spicy meme folder alone would probably get a feminist judge to rule against me haha.
I’m glad my only ND so far in life was at an outdoor gun range when I was practicing with my non-dominant hand. As I raised the weapon up to aim at the target, I just squeezed the trigger accidentally at about 45° not being used to using my non-dominant hand. Round went into the ground about 5 yards or so out and I was good. It definitely served as a wake up call of how easy it is to have an ND when your finger is on the trigger before you are ready to fire.
I believe James Yeager said it best: There are two kinds of people, those who have had a negligent discharge and those who have not had one yet.
If you believe that you are too ‘good’ to have it happen to you, then you are more likely to let your guard down. Having that fear that it may happen one day causes you to be more cautious and attentive.
Butterfield's Tune isn't needed and I'll laugh at his jokes so long as I breathe. I figure he'd approve and include some colorful metaphor to drive it home.
As for me, I'm exactly one of that kind of persons. In my defense, there was a fire inside my moving vehicle with me as only occupant at the occasion but "direction of least consequence" gained the day even if hand brake found purchase on the bang switch. (An argument for cruiser ready and a range check of trigger block functionality even with a drop safe unit of gauge.)
A little Bondo, paint, tinnitus and check of undies. Lessons learned.
This is an excellent topic, and everyone should be very aware of this. especially in Arizona. Thx for the video
These kinds of consequences for what is ultimately an accident makes a mockery of the principle “there is no crime where there is not criminal intent”.
You can also get a WHOLE LOT of training for $15,000
Unfortunately for a lot of idiots, you can't buy common sense and not have an ND for $15,000 dollars.
My negligent discharge story:
I was waiting on my coworker to carpool to work early in the morning, I had 3 1911’s, 2 Springfield armory’s and a Kimber; I was “dry firing” (ok I was playing with my guns) and I noticed the one 1911 hammer would fall to half cock when I racked the slide, wondering if the other 1911 would do the same thing, I picked it up, pointed it at the wall and pulled the trigger and sure as the sun comes up in the East, BANG!; this was probably 4am as we had to be to work at 5, never called the police, and I still have hearing damage in my right ear, lost a blender and had to repair the dent in the corner of the wall
@@JorgeRojas-ut3wj Yeap, had to go online and buy another one lol
Great topic, learned important information about firearms law for Arizona. Will be sharing this with family and friends. Thanks for sharing.
I had an ND when I was about 22. I was unloading my pistol at home and my was racking my pistol incorrectly. I called the police on myself, I didn’t call 911 just non emergency line. When I got a call back from the local PD they told me they were out of my jurisdiction and that the area I was in was under state police at that time of day. He told me that if I know exactly where the round went and no one was hurt unless someone else calls the cops I should just keep my mouth shut. I took his advice.
That was *very* kind of him.
Thanks John and Tim. Great topics. UA-cam Gold!
This is exactly why I have a second, exact replica of my carry firearm for dry fire. It stays with a laser trainer in the barrel, as well as a magazine with a MagBlok in it. It is my backup gun for my training firearm and carry firearm in case either would break (okay, so yes, I own 3 of exactly the same firearm). Pricey choice, but lots cheaper than paying Tim's mortgage!
that is crazy that an nd when you were 18, could destroy the rest of your life. if there is no victim, why is the price so high??
I was practicing my draw to first shot dry, got done and reloaded/holstered my gun, got sidetracked with something and thought I'd do another presentation. Drew down and pulled the trigger about half way before remembering that I was about to put a 124 grain gold dot through the wall.
Not the adrenaline rush you wanted that day, I'm sure.
Where can people get barrel blocks? I looked a few years ago when I first saw one on ASP and couldn’t find them.
Amazon
Google Barrel Blok
A salesperson at my local FFL shop is with the opinion that a manual safety leads to ND's because the owner becomes reliant on the safety to protect them from an ND, and thus will fiddle with the trigger on the false expectation that the safety is engaged. I countered that forming a habit of pulling the trigger without properly clearing the firearm regardless of having a manual safety creates the risk of an ND. Thoughts on this anyone?
I agree with you.
It makes sense. It's the first time I'm hearing this logic, but again it makes sense.
Worked on a roof in Seattle with no trees around it but there was a hole near the ridge and we couldn't figure out what caused it, patched it up and talked to the owner later, brother ND'd 'cleaning his gun'😅
I recommend people to dry fire pointing at a 5 gallon bucket full of sand. Handguns rounds only go in a few inches in case there is a ND.
Yes! If not this at least point it in the direction of least consequence
Example a gun safe if no 5 gallon sand bucket present
Or just have common sense and don't have the gun loaded.
What if the ND was due to failed equipment? I've heard Sig having complaints about ND happening with one model.
That's an accidental discharge
they covered that at the end
With the exception of the Sig P320, these are called desk pops.
John, I am in Maricopa Co. but outside city limits. New River, AZ. What’s the deal with an ND here?
Same laws in New River as anywhere else in AZ.
Love these talks with Ranger Tim. One note ... your audio always seems really low in these compared to your other videos. Cheers!
The news story from the video with the guard says that he did not have his finger on the trigger - he had an ID badge on a lanyard around his neck and it caught on the trigger.
What about a ND (of no consequence) in an unincorporated area/rural county, outside of city limits, far enough away from occupied structures, camp sites, etc.?
If a tree falls in the woods..
@@kaitie1712 As long as it doesn't fall on you! :)))
I'm just wondering about the "black letter" law.
I live in a Central American country. In all likelihood there were no legal consequences for accidentally discharging the shotgun.
Remember this is not covered in FLP.
Anyways always be careful fam
Yep this is not a defensive gun use!
Anyone that calls the cops on themselves after having an ND 😂
Feel free to laugh at my ND story.
I was 19 at that time and this was my ND. I use to have some cheap Airsoft 1911 that mom bought for me when I was 17. One day I loaded up the mag, rack, put a round in the chamber, put the safety on, toss that thing in my backpack and toss the bag into the closet. I think a few weeks later or something I was cleaning my bedroom, went into the closet and I found the backpack. I search the bag and found the airsoft pistol. I remember that "it had a mag inside" so I remove the mag, switch the safety off, point the gun at the window......and...."HUGE POP" noise. Good thing the window didn't break cuz mom would of killed me 8 times over.
Dang, that seems like an overly harsh penalty for a negligent discharge.
Note to self. Don't call the police.
I am not a lawyer, but I am not sure I agree with the notion of claiming negligence after an unintentional discharge. If your round may have hit someone's property or person, I think "accidental discharge" is the language you would be better served to use when discussing your incident with the police, the injured party, or anyone else for that matter.
Admit nothing. Put the burden of proof on them to prove that it wasn't an accident and that you were negligent.
The negligence is in the act itself of discharging a firearm unintentionally.
I'd love to know what percent of Negligent Discharges happen from someone pulling the trigger to remove the slide? I read of ND's 6-8 times per year in my local police reports, "... while cleaming his gun discharged a round through the wall of his neighbor's apartment/ ... into the floor of his home/ ... into his own hand." Because striker fired pistols require you to pull the trigger to strip the slide I bought an H&K P30 hammer fire that does not require this action, along with many other reasons to buy H&K.
Mine was the bolt from a rifle.. my brother did the slide ND taking his handgun apart..
Guilty of that also. Wanted to show my dad how easy it was to disassemble while riding in his truck. Empty gun got loaded after pulling back the slide, locking it, flipping takedown lever, releasing slide and then that wonderful pull of the trigger. Right through the dash, luckily no one was hurt and the truck was fine. Will haunt me the rest of my days.
Our legal system is way too complicated. This. Is great content. Also I’m triggered lol
The taco thing is true about Chinese food too. The closer the gunshots the better the general tso’s chicken
Danger tacos FTW!
All the legal issues involved sort of make me not want to purchase or carry a gun.
Hay, how about them new years eve & 4th of July people that fire their guns off at midnight . I car hear anywhere from 100 to a 1000 shots.
In Arizona that practice is a felony. Most other states are similar.
Yes , Here in Ohio I believe it's the same. But they do it anyway. We sleep in the basement them nights. 😂
Acts of negligence are accidents (maybe not always, but I have a hard time thinking of something intentional happening through carelessness or inattentiveness), but not all accidents are acts of negligence; therefore, all NDs are also ADs. I understand the point of making the distinction - to reinforce the fact that the shooter is responsible for the discharge, but the terms are not mutually exclusive.
Nothing to see here,keep moving,while you pray no one calls the police Funny but not funny if you understand the possible outcomes😢😮