@@koro_kokoro I imagine it was also something the Empire used to justify the extermination of the Jedi. LOTS of them committed war crimes like Obi-wan and Anakin did. Though Pong Krell was probably the only one to kill PoWs.
@@The-Singularity-X01 well most of what we call war crimes is us applying real world logic on fantasy land, it doesn’t work that way, a fantasy land would have different rules, but attacking under a false flag of peace means trust of such things internally broken
ngl, that fake surrender was imo one of Kenobi's lower dips in character; it's a little shady for a Jedi, and I only cut him slack there because it was a massive war and he had orders. Still could have been a tad more honorable toward the one who had shown him the same only moments before. Just goes to show that even seemingly perfect beings like Obi-Wan have occasional mistakes too; not all good guys always act good.
@@AngelDust6969 I believe it’s a war crime in real life, and some real life war related things cross over into the Star Wars universe. I’m not sure if it was specifically said but that’s the reasoning
Let me guess, you have six fingers just like Stanford Pines. Two fingers to hold the cup, and four "pinkies" to raise. Now, if you excuse me, my squad and I are going to confiscate that Dr. P book in a Los Angeles library... war is coming, and we need to lessen the masquerade so to stop an interdimensional threat... AND AVENGE POOR MARCY WU AND PURGE THE MULTIVERSE OF THAT UNRIGHTEOUS LIGHTSABER-WIELDING FIEND!!!
*Meanwhile, Terrinald Screed and that Star Destroyer captain in LPhoenix's X-Wing longplays are being examples of that* You might already know the former, but the latter is quite a long story that borders on fanspeak.
exactly, I did some research in Star Wars knowledge and found out that his people were a working-class force on Christophisis, a horribly snobbish human-dominated society. I'm so ashamed I did not realize this sooner and booed Ob-Wan for this.
@@flynnwhimster5371 It's true, Christophsians on Christophsis are something of an aristocratic minority. They live in crystal towers and own all the mineral reserves, then delegate everything else to imported slave labor. Really reminds you of the kind of "peace" the Republic was trying to defend.
There's the Neimoidian Tuuk in the Ryloth episode. He was fair and honorable, and Anakin feigned surrender under humanitarian pretenses, then rammed his ship into the neimoidian's.
He actually was civil , and didn't poison Obi Wan. He literally gave him some good tea, gave him some good comfortable rocks, and he got fucking betrayed. He didn't deserve this. This literally is one of the reasons why the Republic can be seen as a ruthless and HORRIBLE faction.
Or, in universe, its NORMAL. Remember : This aint Earth, what we call warcrime is basicaly what everyone does. So no, Anakin as well as Obi did actualy NEVER comit warcrimes at all because IN UNIVERSE even wiping out a planet or 2 via Base Delta Zero aint one, and that thing is genocide bombardment (used by jedi, sith, republic, empire, seperatists, rebels you name it)
Loathsome is the BEST commander I've heard of, as of now. I hate that they didn't treat him better... It shows that their "grudging respect for him" was rather fake.
Honestly the moment when we see him is early days of the war, during which CIS was probably more trusting of the Jedi as they still known them as keepers of peace and honorable warriors. But after situations like this, quite sure Loathsome and many other CIS members were broken and started to view Jedi as traitors, liars and murderers - just as Palpatine intended
I've always rather felt that Admiral Trench and General Loathsome were pretty much the two "gentlemen" military antagonists, especially Trench, that we saw as Field/Space commanders...well done.
TCW movie: Obi-Wan commits a war crime. First episode of TCW's last arc: Anakin commits exactly the same kind of war crime. George Lucas: It's like poetry; they rhyme.
@@jamiewalsh3349 To break a blockade and get supplies through wasn't it? But still, be probably learned if from ObI Wan. The most disturbing on was probably Ki Adi Mundi roasting those Geonosians. Its amusing though how when Obi Wan does it, everyone is rushing to "explian" why its not a war crime and not *REALLY* wrong. Almsot as if they don't want Gary Stu Kenobi to have any flaws.
@@englishlady9797 it’s not that deep. My only point in saying that was because that example was barely mentioned or acknowledged. U getting uptight about something that is of no importance🤣
I mean, it IS hard to not forget about someone who disappears after two episodes and placed in thr same scene as Obi Wan, take Adi Galia for example, I forgot she was there when they fought Maul and Oppress.
I hated how underused he is and would love to see him again, wish we could see some of his mentioned victories before he was arrested or maybe we could see him break out of prison....
Haha!, Im always remembering how honourable he was during that battle, setting the terms of the "republic rendition" like a true, full-career commander, accepting a surrendering enemy and stopping to talk with it
They showed how Mar Tuuk respected the Jedi and actually used good tactics and yet was foiled by Anakin pulling a war crime . surrendering while yeeting his venator into Tuuk’s flagship lmaooo
@@englishlady9797 And isn't that what is done in literally every siege? If the leaders of the planet did not want their population to continue starving they could have surrendered, instead it was a better idea to commit a war crime that would cost the lives of minimally hundreds of thousands, just for now, having to fight a tough and destructive warfare on the surface that killed even more people.
Kenobi was a hero of the Rebellion, so I doubt he'd have gone along with that!!! Separatists 2.0 might have resulted. Besides given the Empire's bias he probably died in a labor camp somewhere.
Imagine he was liberated from an Imperial prison, joined up with the rebellion, and he regaled Leia and other rebels with his story of being outfoxed by Kenobi during the Clone Wars, just shoring up his legend in the minds of the younger generation.
*negotiator my ass* every time kenobi seems to negotiate in the clone wars he’s either ignored or stalling to make an attack himself! The only time I can think of was with the talz but even then the pantoran senator was the one that sealed the deal.
Loathsom was like that Spec Ops Trooper Crosshair plugged in BB. A person who tried to be civil in a faction were brutality and vileness were the norm.
I remember the episode he was in... And it made me sick what Obi Wan did. He surrendered to the general and was negotiating his surrender then he attacked and captured him... Which is a war crime.
Oh yes, the the one whom Obi Wan committed a war crime against. Strange isn't it. The "perfect Jedi", the "most loving moral and compassionate" being who ever lived, as fandom loves to call him, commited the first on screen war crime in the Clone Wars series.
Fun fact: Grevious was a close 2nd. Being so much more civilized with all his Sabers. While being THAT honorable an Civilized to actually MEET with enemy top commanders he mustve not lived down to his name... Or up to it as someone even grudgingly respected probably isnt hated I also forgot to mention. Someone like him woulda ALSO made ALL the difference when the Rebels began to fight the Empire couple Decades later
Jacob Gale plus his backstory in Legends is sad af and infuriating to read and understand. The Republic and Jedi Order in Legends (like Batman) created a lot of enemies over dumb shit. The failure to help the Kaleesh defend their worlds and see through the deception of The Huk is an untold atrocity and horrendous performance of Jedi/Republic standards. Grievous is lowkey justified af for his fury against The Jedi heroes he once believed in and The Republic in which his people one believed helped those in need...
@@blackshogun272 The Yam’rii (Huk) enslaved the Kahleesh and desecrated ancestral tombs... once the reptilians fought back the mantis aliens cowardly played the victim card on to the Republic Senate.
I'm still hoping he'll show up in the bad batch. I found him an interesting character and he might make for a good leader to the start of the rebellion especially since it also gives credence to the Empire's claims that the rebellion was just separatist Holdouts. Maybe he's rescued when they recover Omega from a holding cell on Corasaunt and he forms this good which helps the "Batch" keep their ship running as they start gathering people/supplies for the rebellion. Maybe even some Kaminoins after the failed rebellion.
Basically him and Pong Krell r smokin reefer in the 4th realm. Imagine if Anakin got sniped by a Tuskin durin his Pod race . Imagine if fucking mace didn’t bring 3 worthless Jedi to help em , like 10-50 Jedi ............ I say worthless like Kit Fisto couldn’t do a double jump back flip.
Separatist military were almost always the cruelist of the conflict. They werent good, even though the separatist cause may have been just. This guy was an exception.
@@samuelbishop3316 war is cruelty scaled up. It's not like the soon to be Empire didn't blockade planets and stop the flow of essential goods such as medicines and the like to seps whenever they could. Not to mention destruction of infrastructure and killing who the fffk knows how many soldiers. Its not like the separatists were actually wrong in any of the accusations they leveled at the republic. And then you come down to the basic reality that they just said they didn't want to be part of the republic but the republic wouldn't "allow" them to leave. Individually cruel commanders/tactics aside, they were in the right. Plus they didn't use a literal slave army, so there's that.
along the opening lines "we generally think of separatist leaders as merciless dark Jedi, killing machines, and ruthless bounty hunters...." you forgot the one other "complete and total idiots who rose in the ranks by an accident that somehow killed a Jedi.
Idiots? Really? The reason why they lost was Plot Armor and good old Emperor PalpiMcScrotumface, As the usually numerical ratio for a successful Offensive military action is usually 3-to-1, the Clones were outnumbered Hundreds of thousands to one (If you only count B1 and B2 units) besides the republic had far less in terms of resources as most raw materials came from Outer Rim and other such worlds, If Palpi weren't their It was only a matter of time, 1-2 more years (Or at least 6 months If the Battle of Coruscant were a CIS victory which it almost was.) It would be like the End of WW2 for the Republic(They'd be in the Germans Shoes, Complete Surrounded and out of Food, Ammo, and Clones) and Many separatist Commanders weren't stupid, Just unlucky or relied to much on Tactical Droids, that was the only real flaw were those shitty Calculators
Separatists: All but defeated the Republic in pitched battle, using conventional tactics and treating the enemy with respect. Republic: Resort to perfiity (a literal war crime) and win the battle. Now I can see why Padme had her doubts about whether the Republic were the right side to be on... Even without Palpatine's influence, they resort to backstabbing and dishonourable combat every bit as much as the Sith, Dark Jedi and other cruel war leaders on the Separatist side.
Loathsome upon realizing that the surrender was a cunning trick by Kenobi: We've been tricked, we've been backstabbed, and we've been, quite possibly, bamboozled!
It’s kind of appropriate that Loathsome is negotiating with Obi-Wan Kenobi considering in the prequel trilogy Obi-Wan was played by Scottish actor Ewan McGregor and loathsome does speak with a Scottish accent
Didn't know he had such an horrible fate. It's so unfair that no one on the seriers ever calls the republic for all the war crimes they commit. Faking a surrender is one of the worst things you can do and the series just allows it.
I completely forgot about this sepy general he was my favorite because he didn't have massive oversized ego like most sepy general did plus he is such honorable general one I would love to know if he was a real person
They're right behind us, sir! They wiped out most of my unit. We had to pull out of there. "The shield has almost reached the heavy cannons" We're not gonna be able to stop them, sir. "Move your troops back to the heavy cannons. Do everything you can to protect them. I'll delay the droids" But... "That is an order, Captain!
Anakin: from my point of view the Jedi are evil Obi wan: then you are lost Anakin: and you committed multiple war crimes and broke the Mandalore Conventions Obi Wan:... Anakin: The Jedi also steal children from their parents and prevent them from having relationships Obi wan: Wait a minute u right
I like this, I always thought Loathsome was very honorable. Would be cool if you can muster more of these videos about separatist generals, commanders in general. Pretty cool.
As much as I like Obi-wan as a character.. I don't like how Kenobi basically pulled a war crime, and a TV trope (or tropes) all in one move - The TV trope that paints surrendering as a dumb move that's only for incompetent cowards (unless it's a ploy to stall/get to the big baddie in charge) /or paints anyone accepting one was stupid because of course it's a ploy, what were they thinking, as well as having double standards for what's ok for the protagonists and what's not ok for the antagonists. At least when it comes to war scenarios and not other kinds of more duel type scenarios - It's really a bad trope and deserved to be retired, cause if we are talking war surrender at times is the only reasonable and logical option. There is not a shred of cowardice in admitting your forces stand zero chance if the fighting continued and standing down in order to avoid them being cut down to the last by the superior fighting force, nor is someone stupid for accepting a surrender but is in fact playing it by the rules and being pretty honorable. Though the Separatists probably wouldn't have been keen to play by the rules considering how Sithy the whole thing was, but I mean still - Stunts like this all but ensure the conflict would only get bloodier.
Writers wanting to be poetic yet not pragmatic. Same thing with fictional armies suffering total annihilation as opposed to a portion of an army group/division being casualties(I know the writers of the SW universe like to write zero sum battles where everyone dies). Point proving none of the writers know anything about military doctrine(their romantic ideals would of fit in well with the ww1 generation of the gallant elán charge into machine guns, guns were invented so you didn’t have to cqc as often despite it taking humanity a century to realize that and especially egregious in the SW universe of high powered, extremely accurate blasters with a blistering rof) or history and should seek a credentialed consultant. Albeit I get it would be boring to watch clones and droids taking potshots at each other from 200+ meters. Maybe it was intentional to show Obi-Wan was every bit as bad as the late republic order and showing how far they’d lost their way. He’s a fan favorite but far from perfect and the darker side of his sometimes snide arrogance and being overly self-assured. The Jedi were so sure they’d win the war and go back to peace-keeping that they felt they didn’t didn’t have to treat their opponents honorably, or assumed every separatist was a Sith patsy and not somebody with legitimate reasons for supporting the cause. Maybe a bit of his training from Qui-Gon was showing as he often broke rules too but I doubt Qui-Gon would of deceived an honorable opponent and I think would of better understood the long term consequences of playing a wounded gazelle gambit.
@@lufsolitaire5351 If it was intentional, then that's very clever writing, actually! The SW universe has always been, despite war being in the name, rather odd with how it approaches the whole topic of war, and war crimes. It's kinda just a word that gets tossed around to depict someone evil, IE: General Grievous (who was easy to say evil), and this might be because of the point of view we get being from the side of the so-called "good guys", whom don't obviously wanna talk about that time one of their generals totally pulled a war crime to prank the other sides general (though I think glossing over that kinda costs them the good guys tag, cause you can't just pull a double standard and expect to walk away with the moral high ground). It would have been fascinating to actually see this point addressed (or to have it addressed at some point down the line), to show that these kinds of shenaniganses have actual, dire consequences, which would force the one who did the war crime to have to deal with what comes out of this kinda stuff. Cause war crimes as a word in SW has very little weight to it, purely due to how casually the word gets slung around/how casually war crimes are done with heroic framing, with no real weight or debt to em.
This story strikes me as off. Not only is committing a war crime out of character for Kenobi, but such a lie is out of character for Jedi in general. The Jedi may not be exactly good guys, but they are honest in their dealings.
@@WednesdayAddamsMW not really. War crimes dont exist in star wars. It's like saying someone broke local law where you live despite them being in a different country
I never forgot about this general. The republic deserved to fall for the way it fought the war. It chose lazy results over honorable outcomes and it fell for it.
Lets remember that even when Obi-wan was the coolest jedi, he was still a Jedi, and Jedis and Sith were the same, just that one side is shown morally superior
@@boguszmakowski2357 You can't pick and choose who is and isn't Separatist. The truth is, the CIS was controlled by a secret council of corporate interests who led the military and fed their 'governing' body (the Separatist senate) lies and propaganda, while committing heinous atrocities.
I mean, when you consider Dooly's end goal was to destroy the sith, and that the Galactic Republic which was fighting the mostly-alien worlds of the Separatists became the Galactic Empire which later subjugated them, it's kind of hard to put a morality on it. Star Wars isn't even Republic-centric. It's Jedi-centric. They're a faction that literally fought in both sides throughout the years, however well-intended.
Each planet under the Republic was its own political entity, and generally the citizens of a country are named after their country (or the other way around), so it kind of makes sense that when a new planet was discovered with sentient natives, the Galactic Basic name created for the species would be derived from that of the planet (or vice versa).
Obi Wan committed a war crime during this battle against this gentleman. This is why other Seperatist leaders prefer playing foul against the Jedi.
Yup
You could say kenobi is why they don’t trust the Jedi. Attacking under a false flag of peace is enough to never trust the other side again
@@koro_kokoro I imagine it was also something the Empire used to justify the extermination of the Jedi. LOTS of them committed war crimes like Obi-wan and Anakin did. Though Pong Krell was probably the only one to kill PoWs.
@@The-Singularity-X01 well most of what we call war crimes is us applying real world logic on fantasy land, it doesn’t work that way, a fantasy land would have different rules, but attacking under a false flag of peace means trust of such things internally broken
That’s only a war crime in our laws
How could i forget him? He is a legend in the inner core!
It's hard to believe that the film came out 13 years ago!
@@geetslys it’s such a shame that a war crime was committed against against this civilized and cultured individual
@@geetslys hey can you shout out my stuffed animal Lammy in your next video.
@@geetslys: It’s THAT old, already? Yikes!
The pleasure was all his.
When you lose the battle because you were civilized and accepted a surrender, not knowing he was a war criminal...
Also the negotiatior meme omg
Honestly, yah.
ngl, that fake surrender was imo one of Kenobi's lower dips in character; it's a little shady for a Jedi, and I only cut him slack there because it was a massive war and he had orders. Still could have been a tad more honorable toward the one who had shown him the same only moments before. Just goes to show that even seemingly perfect beings like Obi-Wan have occasional mistakes too; not all good guys always act good.
So uncivilised...
Me, knowing that nothing in the Star Wars universe says that Falsely surrendering is a war crime: I don't have such weaknesses.
@@AngelDust6969 I believe it’s a war crime in real life, and some real life war related things cross over into the Star Wars universe. I’m not sure if it was specifically said but that’s the reasoning
He even raised his pinky. Now that’s fancy
I raise 4 pinkies when I drink boba.
@@geetslys wha how many you need
"Pinky." Patrick Star
Let me guess, you have six fingers just like Stanford Pines. Two fingers to hold the cup, and four "pinkies" to raise.
Now, if you excuse me, my squad and I are going to confiscate that Dr. P book in a Los Angeles library... war is coming, and we need to lessen the masquerade so to stop an interdimensional threat... AND AVENGE POOR MARCY WU AND PURGE THE MULTIVERSE OF THAT UNRIGHTEOUS LIGHTSABER-WIELDING FIEND!!!
He has 2 hans and feet, so that means he has 4 pinkies
You know for a guy named Loathsom, he’s a pretty honorable guy. One of few CIS commanders that didn’t act like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
*Meanwhile, Terrinald Screed and that Star Destroyer captain in LPhoenix's X-Wing longplays are being examples of that*
You might already know the former, but the latter is quite a long story that borders on fanspeak.
An honorable man beaten by dishonorable means. That is just horrible, Loathsome deserved better.
exactly, I did some research in Star Wars knowledge and found out that his people were a working-class force on Christophisis, a horribly snobbish human-dominated society. I'm so ashamed I did not realize this sooner and booed Ob-Wan for this.
Kenobi was a war criminal.
@@flynnwhimster5371 It's true, Christophsians on Christophsis are something of an aristocratic minority. They live in crystal towers and own all the mineral reserves, then delegate everything else to imported slave labor. Really reminds you of the kind of "peace" the Republic was trying to defend.
Soo uncivilised
@@geetslys Yes he was, which makes me question why he was known by the title "the negotiator"?
Not as clumsy or random as a Jedi, an elegant General from a more civilized age.
*suddenly remembers a recent misuse of a lightsaber between a king and a desperate young girl* ...Well, guess what? Times have changed.
@@michaelandreipalon359 What do you mean?
@@gabrielho1874 ... Disney's Amphibia. Look it up, but be warned of spoilers.
"So Civilised" - General Kenobi
LOL. An Uno reverse quote!
That was my idea
I was literally just about to comment that and then I saw this lol
Hmst yes someone beat me to a very civilized comment how very civilized of you
As a separatist I fought for freedom but put my trust into a corrupt leadership -separatist looking back at the clone wars
It’s sad really. Corrupt leadership turns what is meant to be a fight for freedom into a fight of one of slavery and terror.
Clone trooper: Hey! I was going to say that!
I mean, evertone was fighting under corrupt leadership in the clone wars. The exact same leadership even!
Obi wan having tea with Loathsome: *being the negotiator*
Obi wan Using false surrenders: So uncivilized
Facts!
@@geetslys Too bad Loathsome didn't have some crumpets with his tea. One last meal for our all so civilized opponent.
Loathsome was one of the only generals to be willing to actually accept prisoners of war and his battle tactics were fair
There's the Neimoidian Tuuk in the Ryloth episode. He was fair and honorable, and Anakin feigned surrender under humanitarian pretenses, then rammed his ship into the neimoidian's.
@@mshin291 technically he was a captain, not a general and I said ONE of not THE
Do we count droids?
This situation is reason, why many didn't accept surrender. Jedi can't be trusted!
Ah yes, one of the times Obi-wan commited a war crime.
One of an INFINITE number of times.
Per Protocol I Article 37(a), feigning surrender (as Kenobi did) is a war crime. Since he was technically on the winning side, Kenobi walked for it.
"It's just like that time on Tibrun."
@@pedrokantor3997 "We had Jedi on Tibrin. They helped."
At least this time, a lightsaber wielder didn't coldly stab a wish-fulfillment addicted yet pitiful and sorry girl...
He actually was civil , and didn't poison Obi Wan. He literally gave him some good tea, gave him some good comfortable rocks, and he got fucking betrayed. He didn't deserve this. This literally is one of the reasons why the Republic can be seen as a ruthless and HORRIBLE faction.
Or, in universe, its NORMAL. Remember : This aint Earth, what we call warcrime is basicaly what everyone does. So no, Anakin as well as Obi did actualy NEVER comit warcrimes at all because IN UNIVERSE even wiping out a planet or 2 via Base Delta Zero aint one, and that thing is genocide bombardment (used by jedi, sith, republic, empire, seperatists, rebels you name it)
Loathsome is the BEST commander I've heard of, as of now. I hate that they didn't treat him better... It shows that their "grudging respect for him" was rather fake.
You can’t poison a Jedi silly
Honestly the moment when we see him is early days of the war, during which CIS was probably more trusting of the Jedi as they still known them as keepers of peace and honorable warriors. But after situations like this, quite sure Loathsome and many other CIS members were broken and started to view Jedi as traitors, liars and murderers - just as Palpatine intended
Thats why false surrender is a war crime because soon nobody surrenders
@@legiohysterius4624 wrong, because soon, nobody accepts surrender
@@0D_D0 it works both ways
And the republic wondered why separatists did not accept surrenders….. its almost like they learned.
I've always rather felt that Admiral Trench and General Loathsome were pretty much the two "gentlemen" military antagonists, especially Trench, that we saw as Field/Space commanders...well done.
Both fielded in the Christophsis campaign, how ‘bout that?
TCW movie: Obi-Wan commits a war crime.
First episode of TCW's last arc: Anakin commits exactly the same kind of war crime.
George Lucas: It's like poetry; they rhyme.
Let's not forget the time Anakin false surrendered over Ryloth
@@jamiewalsh3349 that was a lil different because his surrender wasn’t accepted yet🤣
@@Eli-akad Still a false surrender, as the words "surrender" were used. Stop trying to exonerate your darling of all flaws.
@@jamiewalsh3349 To break a blockade and get supplies through wasn't it? But still, be probably learned if from ObI Wan. The most disturbing on was probably Ki Adi Mundi roasting those Geonosians.
Its amusing though how when Obi Wan does it, everyone is rushing to "explian" why its not a war crime and not *REALLY* wrong. Almsot as if they don't want Gary Stu Kenobi to have any flaws.
@@englishlady9797 it’s not that deep. My only point in saying that was because that example was barely mentioned or acknowledged. U getting uptight about something that is of no importance🤣
I mean, it IS hard to not forget about someone who disappears after two episodes and placed in thr same scene as Obi Wan, take Adi Galia for example, I forgot she was there when they fought Maul and Oppress.
It’s not like she was there for all that long, except maybe in spirit
The man literally named “Loathsome” is chill enough to have tea with his enemy. My man got done dirty
"General Lothsom sir should we fire at the Jedi?" -B1 Battle droid. "No I would like to have tea with this so called Kenobi" - Lothsom
I hated how underused he is and would love to see him again, wish we could see some of his mentioned victories before he was arrested or maybe we could see him break out of prison....
"Terribly uncivilized"
That's one way to describe a war crime.
In the scene with Obi-Wan on Cristophsis, Loathsome is mind tricked at least twice. Watch Kenobi's hands. Dirty sorcerer tricks.
"Surely, there’s no reason why we can’t be civilized about this."
Said the uncivilized Religious Extremist responsible for the creation of Darth Vader
Honestly there should be a book for every separatist commander and their backstory to know why they ended up the way they did.
Or most at least
In the desert 18 years later
Ben: maybe I could have prevented all of this, by letting that good man win...
Haha!, Im always remembering how honourable he was during that battle, setting the terms of the "republic rendition" like a true, full-career commander, accepting a surrendering enemy and stopping to talk with it
Imagine the two met after the Jedi Purge and they were like, “No hard feelings?”
Same with the Trade Federation commander protecting Ryloth from invaders.
They showed how Mar Tuuk respected the Jedi and actually used good tactics and yet was foiled by Anakin pulling a war crime . surrendering while yeeting his venator into Tuuk’s flagship lmaooo
@@jacobgale4792 Ummmm, you say "protecting Ryloth" but wasn't he actually the leader of a blockade and preventing supplies getting through?
@@englishlady9797 And isn't that what is done in literally every siege? If the leaders of the planet did not want their population to continue starving they could have surrendered, instead it was a better idea to commit a war crime that would cost the lives of minimally hundreds of thousands, just for now, having to fight a tough and destructive warfare on the surface that killed even more people.
The rebel Alliance should've tried to do him justice and free him. It would've been a win-win situation for them
Kenobi was a hero of the Rebellion, so I doubt he'd have gone along with that!!! Separatists 2.0 might have resulted. Besides given the Empire's bias he probably died in a labor camp somewhere.
@@Somewhat-Evil kenobi was a hero of the rebellion but a war criminal of the clone wars..so...
To be fair, it's really hard to liberate people from Imperial Center, especially if it's a high security prison like the Lusankya.
Imagine he was liberated from an Imperial prison, joined up with the rebellion, and he regaled Leia and other rebels with his story of being outfoxed by Kenobi during the Clone Wars, just shoring up his legend in the minds of the younger generation.
@@LedosKell would've been epic
Generals are supposed to be gentlemen, regardless of their tactics. Respectable man.
*negotiator my ass* every time kenobi seems to negotiate in the clone wars he’s either ignored or stalling to make an attack himself! The only time I can think of was with the talz but even then the pantoran senator was the one that sealed the deal.
I guess that's why Grievous had an almost sarcastic tone in Revenge of the Sith when he called Obi-Wan that
Loathsom was like that Spec Ops Trooper Crosshair plugged in BB. A person who tried to be civil in a faction were brutality and vileness were the norm.
"War does not determine who is right. Only who is left."
Oh my roomate and I NEVER forgot about him lol, we still regularly quote him on “bring us something liquid”
I remember the episode he was in... And it made me sick what Obi Wan did. He surrendered to the general and was negotiating his surrender then he attacked and captured him... Which is a war crime.
Oh yes, the the one whom Obi Wan committed a war crime against.
Strange isn't it. The "perfect Jedi", the "most loving moral and compassionate" being who ever lived, as fandom loves to call him, commited the first on screen war crime in the Clone Wars series.
I love him dearly but I'm under no illusions he was perfect.
What law wad broken?
Fun fact: Grevious was a close 2nd. Being so much more civilized with all his Sabers.
While being THAT honorable an Civilized to actually MEET with enemy top commanders he mustve not lived down to his name... Or up to it as someone even grudgingly respected probably isnt hated
I also forgot to mention. Someone like him woulda ALSO made ALL the difference when the Rebels began to fight the Empire couple Decades later
Indeed For either side, Kind of like the Clone Wars Thrawn(that's maybe a bit of a stretch)
EU Grievous was a brilliant commander (close but not Thrawn or Ackbar levels)
Jacob Gale plus his backstory in Legends is sad af and infuriating to read and understand. The Republic and Jedi Order in Legends (like Batman) created a lot of enemies over dumb shit. The failure to help the Kaleesh defend their worlds and see through the deception of The Huk is an untold atrocity and horrendous performance of Jedi/Republic standards. Grievous is lowkey justified af for his fury against The Jedi heroes he once believed in and The Republic in which his people one believed helped those in need...
@@blackshogun272 The Yam’rii (Huk) enslaved the Kahleesh and desecrated ancestral tombs... once the reptilians fought back the mantis aliens cowardly played the victim card on to the Republic Senate.
I liked him a lot. I mean, can you name any other General who has tea immediately ready to go in the middle of a battlefield?
Hello there, kenobi,kenobi!!!
I'm still hoping he'll show up in the bad batch. I found him an interesting character and he might make for a good leader to the start of the rebellion especially since it also gives credence to the Empire's claims that the rebellion was just separatist Holdouts. Maybe he's rescued when they recover Omega from a holding cell on Corasaunt and he forms this good which helps the "Batch" keep their ship running as they start gathering people/supplies for the rebellion. Maybe even some Kaminoins after the failed rebellion.
One of the many victims caught up in Sidious’ master plan. In another universe I could see him as a great Republic general.
"Wrong side of history" seems like he was on the right side to me.
Losing side is perhaps more apt
Basically him and Pong Krell r smokin reefer in the 4th realm. Imagine if Anakin got sniped by a Tuskin durin his Pod race . Imagine if fucking mace didn’t bring 3 worthless Jedi to help em , like 10-50 Jedi ............ I say worthless like Kit Fisto couldn’t do a double jump back flip.
@@skywashigh hey the Jedi did their best, but Sheev tried spinning and it was a good trick
Separatist military were almost always the cruelist of the conflict. They werent good, even though the separatist cause may have been just. This guy was an exception.
@@samuelbishop3316 war is cruelty scaled up. It's not like the soon to be Empire didn't blockade planets and stop the flow of essential goods such as medicines and the like to seps whenever they could. Not to mention destruction of infrastructure and killing who the fffk knows how many soldiers.
Its not like the separatists were actually wrong in any of the accusations they leveled at the republic. And then you come down to the basic reality that they just said they didn't want to be part of the republic but the republic wouldn't "allow" them to leave. Individually cruel commanders/tactics aside, they were in the right. Plus they didn't use a literal slave army, so there's that.
From what I learn from watching any Star War Tv shows, Don't accept any term of surrender and start blasting away.
along the opening lines "we generally think of separatist leaders as merciless dark Jedi, killing machines, and ruthless bounty hunters...." you forgot the one other "complete and total idiots who rose in the ranks by an accident that somehow killed a Jedi.
Can you name any names? I can't recall anyone that fits
Idiots? Really? The reason why they lost was Plot Armor and good old Emperor PalpiMcScrotumface, As the usually numerical ratio for a successful Offensive military action is usually 3-to-1, the Clones were outnumbered Hundreds of thousands to one (If you only count B1 and B2 units) besides the republic had far less in terms of resources as most raw materials came from Outer Rim and other such worlds, If Palpi weren't their It was only a matter of time, 1-2 more years (Or at least 6 months If the Battle of Coruscant were a CIS victory which it almost was.) It would be like the End of WW2 for the Republic(They'd be in the Germans Shoes, Complete Surrounded and out of Food, Ammo, and Clones) and Many separatist Commanders weren't stupid, Just unlucky or relied to much on Tactical Droids, that was the only real flaw were those shitty Calculators
The number of times the Jedi (usailly ObI Wan) worked with bounty hunters though.....
"Bring us something LiQuId."
That line is so silly and it always gets me!
@@geetslys yeah
Separatists: All but defeated the Republic in pitched battle, using conventional tactics and treating the enemy with respect.
Republic: Resort to perfiity (a literal war crime) and win the battle.
Now I can see why Padme had her doubts about whether the Republic were the right side to be on... Even without Palpatine's influence, they resort to backstabbing and dishonourable combat every bit as much as the Sith, Dark Jedi and other cruel war leaders on the Separatist side.
There was a law against that in Star Wars?
I imagine if he had been named 'General Lovabl', things might have gone better for him.
You should make a list of war crimes commited by the jedi.
Loathsome upon realizing that the surrender was a cunning trick by Kenobi: We've been tricked, we've been backstabbed, and we've been, quite possibly, bamboozled!
Pretending to surrender to gain the upper hand is a war time according to the Geneva convention.
Star Wars has the Geneva Convention?
It’s kind of appropriate that Loathsome is negotiating with Obi-Wan Kenobi considering in the prequel trilogy Obi-Wan was played by Scottish actor Ewan McGregor and loathsome does speak with a Scottish accent
Well, he was civilized, until his patience began to run out
Cuz he could tell Kenobi was stalling
Didn't know he had such an horrible fate. It's so unfair that no one on the seriers ever calls the republic for all the war crimes they commit. Faking a surrender is one of the worst things you can do and the series just allows it.
I completely forgot about this sepy general he was my favorite because he didn't have massive oversized ego like most sepy general did plus he is such honorable general one I would love to know if he was a real person
They're right behind us, sir! They wiped out most of my unit. We had to pull out of there.
"The shield has almost reached the heavy cannons"
We're not gonna be able to stop them, sir.
"Move your troops back to the heavy cannons. Do everything you can to protect them. I'll delay the droids"
But...
"That is an order, Captain!
Sadly I did forget about him. Hard to remember when he only appeared for less than 7 minutes.
Anakin: from my point of view the Jedi are evil
Obi wan: then you are lost
Anakin: and you committed multiple war crimes and broke the Mandalore Conventions
Obi Wan:...
Anakin: The Jedi also steal children from their parents and prevent them from having relationships
Obi wan: Wait a minute u right
Well, its also the first time Star Wars introduced their own "teh siew dai" (milk tea) which builds up Obi Wan's cultured drinker.
I like this, I always thought Loathsome was very honorable. Would be cool if you can muster more of these
videos about separatist generals, commanders in general. Pretty cool.
I thought he was general of honor and integrity, sad to hear what happened to him.
In my headcannon, Grievous probably remembers this event in ep and is taunting obi wan by calling him the negotiator.
I would've loved to see him commanding clone forces.
As much as I like Obi-wan as a character.. I don't like how Kenobi basically pulled a war crime, and a TV trope (or tropes) all in one move - The TV trope that paints surrendering as a dumb move that's only for incompetent cowards (unless it's a ploy to stall/get to the big baddie in charge) /or paints anyone accepting one was stupid because of course it's a ploy, what were they thinking, as well as having double standards for what's ok for the protagonists and what's not ok for the antagonists. At least when it comes to war scenarios and not other kinds of more duel type scenarios - It's really a bad trope and deserved to be retired, cause if we are talking war surrender at times is the only reasonable and logical option. There is not a shred of cowardice in admitting your forces stand zero chance if the fighting continued and standing down in order to avoid them being cut down to the last by the superior fighting force, nor is someone stupid for accepting a surrender but is in fact playing it by the rules and being pretty honorable. Though the Separatists probably wouldn't have been keen to play by the rules considering how Sithy the whole thing was, but I mean still - Stunts like this all but ensure the conflict would only get bloodier.
Writers wanting to be poetic yet not pragmatic. Same thing with fictional armies suffering total annihilation as opposed to a portion of an army group/division being casualties(I know the writers of the SW universe like to write zero sum battles where everyone dies). Point proving none of the writers know anything about military doctrine(their romantic ideals would of fit in well with the ww1 generation of the gallant elán charge into machine guns, guns were invented so you didn’t have to cqc as often despite it taking humanity a century to realize that and especially egregious in the SW universe of high powered, extremely accurate blasters with a blistering rof) or history and should seek a credentialed consultant. Albeit I get it would be boring to watch clones and droids taking potshots at each other from 200+ meters. Maybe it was intentional to show Obi-Wan was every bit as bad as the late republic order and showing how far they’d lost their way. He’s a fan favorite but far from perfect and the darker side of his sometimes snide arrogance and being overly self-assured. The Jedi were so sure they’d win the war and go back to peace-keeping that they felt they didn’t didn’t have to treat their opponents honorably, or assumed every separatist was a Sith patsy and not somebody with legitimate reasons for supporting the cause. Maybe a bit of his training from Qui-Gon was showing as he often broke rules too but I doubt Qui-Gon would of deceived an honorable opponent and I think would of better understood the long term consequences of playing a wounded gazelle gambit.
@@lufsolitaire5351 If it was intentional, then that's very clever writing, actually! The SW universe has always been, despite war being in the name, rather odd with how it approaches the whole topic of war, and war crimes. It's kinda just a word that gets tossed around to depict someone evil, IE: General Grievous (who was easy to say evil), and this might be because of the point of view we get being from the side of the so-called "good guys", whom don't obviously wanna talk about that time one of their generals totally pulled a war crime to prank the other sides general (though I think glossing over that kinda costs them the good guys tag, cause you can't just pull a double standard and expect to walk away with the moral high ground).
It would have been fascinating to actually see this point addressed (or to have it addressed at some point down the line), to show that these kinds of shenaniganses have actual, dire consequences, which would force the one who did the war crime to have to deal with what comes out of this kinda stuff. Cause war crimes as a word in SW has very little weight to it, purely due to how casually the word gets slung around/how casually war crimes are done with heroic framing, with no real weight or debt to em.
Can you made video about Neimoidian Guard,which can see in Revenge of the Sith and Clone Wars Series
Hey get that man out,He was being nice, although his voice sounded entirely evil he was in other words trying to be absolutely nice
I remember seeing the movie in theaters, with the big group picture ending. It actually made me feel the way I did watching the original trilogy.
“The negotiations were short.” - Obi-Wan Kenobi, 32 BBY
poor guy was played as a gag character to make fun of being civilized
u _ u
0:10: You forgot the incompetent bureaucrats and businesspeople who didn't deserve to even lead armies.
How could i forget he was a big victim of a major War crime of the Clone Wars?
This story strikes me as off. Not only is committing a war crime out of character for Kenobi, but such a lie is out of character for Jedi in general. The Jedi may not be exactly good guys, but they are honest in their dealings.
I understand Anakin doing this but not obi wan
The one person too civilized for obi wan
Well you can always play him as a CIS commander in Fall of The Republic!
The Jedi deserved what they got. Criminals, all of em. Long live the Empire
Ahhhh the good old “commit a war crime” tactic to punish an honorable commander
There was a law against that in Star Wars?
@@andymiller6661 jokes are hard
@@jimmygee3219 Which is why you'll never make it as a comedian.
Anyone else read the most civilized Separatist commander and think commander Merai?
As a Mon Calamari fighting for the Separatist cause Merai is probably not remembered too fondly by his own people.
We need loathsome: a star wars story
Yeah, this is one of the times Obi-wan committed a war crime.
And after that point, the seperatists would be justified in not accepting surrender.
no wonder Anikan turned to the Sith. with behavior like that, who could blame him.
Fairly certain that technically makes Kenobi a war criminal. 🤔
It does. Protocol 1, Article 37(a).
@@WednesdayAddamsMW not really. War crimes dont exist in star wars. It's like saying someone broke local law where you live despite them being in a different country
You think the Empire wanted control of the tea trade?
We got to feel sorry for the poor guy.
he fell for the oldest trick in the book...
the trick in question being a war crime, i think
I never forgot about this general. The republic deserved to fall for the way it fought the war. It chose lazy results over honorable outcomes and it fell for it.
Yeesh, I've seen Captain Planet villains with subtler names!
Lets remember that even when Obi-wan was the coolest jedi, he was still a Jedi, and Jedis and Sith were the same, just that one side is shown morally superior
*shown morally superior
@@andymiller6661 thanks
i never forgot, he was a very distinguished gentleman lol
As long as they didn't say he died, then he might get back one day.
"You, droid. Bring us something liquid."
I actually realised that the Separatists weren't the bad guys in this war
So the people that enslaved and slaughtered the twi'leks are the good guys
@@hungryracoon5890 techno union and other influencial partys leaders are definetly bad, im talking bout others
@@boguszmakowski2357 You can't pick and choose who is and isn't Separatist. The truth is, the CIS was controlled by a secret council of corporate interests who led the military and fed their 'governing' body (the Separatist senate) lies and propaganda, while committing heinous atrocities.
@@TheSuperRatt im not picking who is a separatist. im saying who is bad
2:01 A leading FIGURE? I see what you did there
I mean, when you consider Dooly's end goal was to destroy the sith, and that the Galactic Republic which was fighting the mostly-alien worlds of the Separatists became the Galactic Empire which later subjugated them, it's kind of hard to put a morality on it.
Star Wars isn't even Republic-centric. It's Jedi-centric. They're a faction that literally fought in both sides throughout the years, however well-intended.
He was a very smart and tactical leader
Not all heroes wear capes.
Obi-Wan on blasters: ✋😑 so uncivilized
Obi-Wan on war crimes: 😎👍
I still walk into restaurants and tell the waiter "you, bring us something liquid"
Obi Wan: So uncivilized
Me: 👁👄👁
Maybe the real lothsome was the friends we made along the way
He was a coquadian from the planet coquadia. Similarly i am a human from the planet of humania. Because planet/species naming works this way.
Each planet under the Republic was its own political entity, and generally the citizens of a country are named after their country (or the other way around), so it kind of makes sense that when a new planet was discovered with sentient natives, the Galactic Basic name created for the species would be derived from that of the planet (or vice versa).
Fun fact the dauntless is also the name of a US navy scout/dive bomber in the Second World War