Beat me to it sir, whooped my punkass right ti it. Bit much that, maybe? But for real, it's so sad that our institutions were such easy targets for George to use. So sad that our institutions have actually even come to that.
I'm personally a Count Dooku Supporter and a Separatist Sympathiser. I personally believe from what we saw in Tales of the Jedi, the Movies and the Book Jedi Lost, that Dooku wasn't evil, the idea he wasn't a true sith is quite popular, I believe he chose what he believed to be the lesser of the two evils. He knew Palpatine planned to take over the Republic, sonI think he decided the emds justify the means and planned to execute Palpatine after they won, then create a new Republic with someone unbiased at the helm, while he worked on a new Jedi Order unbound to the Republic. That's why he looked so shocked in Revenge of the Sith, he realized that Plapatine new of his betrayal scheme and had been one step ahead of him the entire time. Mad respect thought for not ratting out Palpatine.
Agreed. I remember seeing in WW2 movies that Axis are normally considered villains, with Nazis shown as ruthless monsters in the holocaust to Japanese being portrayed as the main antagonists in many Pacific War movies. However, movies such as Grave of the Fireflies are big exceptions, which show the horrors the Japs lived in during the city bombings and the result of the war being lost, as well as some of the interment camps in America that show Americans as basically racist and no different than the Nazis running the death camps in Poland and Germany (plus we didn't imprison German or Italian immigrants, but rather only Japanese, even if they were descendants). And while the Nazis were quite evil in ways concerning the roots to the Holocaust (to the point that talking about WW2 in Germany is quite offensive), the Japanese, despite committing many war crimes, seemed to not be as bad as Italy and Germany. And the Allies were not innocent of war crimes, either. Basically, the war crimes committed by the Allies as well as the racist treatment to Japanese Americans can label both Allies and Axis countries as villains depending on the main characters. No human ever chose where to be born. Not everyone even is proud of the country they live in. And as a result, there is not total evil or total heroism in fights. Wherever you go, there are good and bad people on both sides.
I think we all remember the old "heroes on both sides" piece in the title crawl. There was an interesting chance to have a nuanced villian that's been lost. There's no sense running appologia for the separatists. It's entirely possible there were some lower ranked no names that were brought over by credible flaws in the system. But it's all destroyed when the seperatists have noone that is a no name because the no names are all robots.
@@edwinoers They absolutely were. Wat Tambor ordered the bombing of civilian villages. Nute Gunray established fascistic trade regulations and blockaded planets until its inhabitants starved.
In Rebels the commander droid said to Ezra, Kanan, Zeb, and Rex, "The point of the confedrecy was to break away from the tyranny of the Republic" these may not be what he exactly said but it gives pretty good detail about why.
He even agreed to gather up more droid soldiers from Separatist holdouts and join the Rebels in their fight against the Empire. If only we could've actually seen it play out in the show.
Who? The valkiry worshiping heathen cucks and barbarians that got involved in a matter that didn't concern them in war where government were blamed for a humorous spontaneous event
@@deemen7132 No; a lot of the people following "The little moustache 1930s guy" had legit grievances. "The little moustache 1930s guy" co-opted those grievances to control the populace. You shouldn't need this explained to you.
"Have you heard the tragedy of the seperatist's movement? It is not a tale any Republic would tell you." As history is written by the winners and much is often gained by demonisation of your opponents.
The Clone Wars was like this: The Separatists where the heroes playing the villains The Republic where the villains playing the heroes Everything was wack
One of the most poignant observations of the Star Wars universe was that outside of a handful of places, life was hard and everyone had PTSD. Everyone had seen death and war, but just kept going hoping that it would end.
You know the first character that flashed through my mind when I read this was Grievous? Dude literally changed his name to represent eternal mourning for a partner lost in war. PTSD extreme
Count Dooku in many ways personifies the tragedy of his times more than Anakin. He was truly a pivotable figure. No other being in the galaxy truly had a greater combination of political skill, popularity, respect, a true feeling for justice, and legitimate personal power as Dooku. Sidious was a tyrant who resorted to terror to rule, he could never actually rule by will of the people. Moreover he only cared about domination. Within Dooku was an exceptional person. Not only as a Force User but also as a leader. There are timelines where Dooku makes the galaxy a better place. One where Dooku isn't ignored by the Jedi and becomes Grand Master and changes the Republic for good. A timeline where Dooku never takes up Sidious' offer, and exposes him for the Jedi to destroy and who creates a CIS that lives peacefully with the Republic. A timeline where Dooku kills Sidious and wins the Clone Wars and rebuilds the galaxy. Dooku was not evil for the sake of being evil. Unlike Sidious, he had true charisma and respect and could have ruled without tyranny and terror. There is a timeline where Dooku still leaves the Jedi, ignores the Sith, but wins the Chancellorship himself. There is also a timeline that almost came to be, where Plagueis kills Sidious for loafing and makes Dooku his apprentice, and in due time Dooku becomes Chancellor. Together they rule with Plagueis and Dooku working together to solve many arcane mysteries while changing the Republic for the better.
@@Loneguy22 The archives of our own are incomplete... You can remedy this by recovering the tales yourself. Write down your findings and upload them to the database. We thank you for your services, young scholar. I do know some finer details about one such timeline. In it, when Sidious calls on Dooku to betray Ventress, he refuses, putting contingency plans of his own into action. Ventress is alerted by him of Sidious' plans, hard evidence of who Palpatine truly is, is sent to the Jedi and the Republic Senate. Sidious, in turn, retaliates with the claim that the evidence is fabricated, but after a Jedi investigation is launched, he is forced to execute order 66 prematurely, and more forcefully coup the Senate, arresting most senators, and using the clone army to implement martial law, transforming the Republic into the Empire with far less popular support than he had in the timeline we're all familiar with. As a result, those who would have otherwise gone on to join or form the Rebel Alliance, instead join up with Dooku's separatists, including many of the surviving Jedi, including Plo Koon, Anakin, Yoda and Kenobi, while various others die, either trying to confront Sidious, such as Windu, or shot down by the clones during Order 66, such as Mundi. Many more survive than was the case in our timeline, though, due to it still being earlier into the Clone Wars, and the Jedi being more alert and on edge due to the circumstances than they were in our timeline, when the war was already all but won. Dooku, embracing a more grey mindset, allies with Talzin and the Nightsisters too, using Ventress as an intermediary for those purposes. Sidious, deprived of an apprentice, and with Anakin having slipped through his fingers, attempts to salvage the situation by finding and, with cybernetics akin to Vader's, rebuilding, Darth Maul. During a confrontation between Maul and Talzin, however, the clan-mother manages to break through her wayward son' madness, and restore him to sanity, while also rebuilding his body properly. As part of the negotiations between Dooku and the anti-imperial Republic loyalists, the mega-corporations' influence within the Separatist movement is eliminated, their leaders arrested, and their droids incited to rebel against the corporations, and join the Separatists as autonomous, volunteer members. Droid rights become a cornerstone of the reformed separatist movement. As the inhibitor chips within the clones begin to malfunction, an ever-increasing number of them desert and join the Separatists. Before long, a popular uprising on Coruscant, from the criminal underbelly of the city, ascends to the surface even as the Separatists lay siege to the planet, and Palpatine is killed in a duel, confronted by Dooku, Yoda, Talzin, Maul, Kenobi and Anakin. Overwhelmed, he is killed by Anakin, and the Empire surrenders. A new Galactic Confederation is formed in place of the Old Republic, with a greater emphasis on representation for formerly disenfranchised worlds, democracy on the local level, and harmonious cooperation on the overarching level. After a brief war against the Hutts, Zygerrians and the other crime syndicates, peace is restored to the galaxy - not just a negative peace, which is the absence of direct conflict, but a positive peace, which is an absence of systemic violence and injustice, too.
Even so, he was still a willing sith. He wanted power, and he used the sith to achieve power. He may have had a good sense of justice, but he still craved personal power.
Sidious should've kept Dooku instead of Anakin. Way better second in command for ruling an empire than the Vader we know or even a healthy yet still instable Anakin.
In war there are rarely ever "good guys and bad guys", just people with different goals and opinions. The only war I could possibly think of in real history that has a side that without a doubt could be considered "evil" is obviously the Nazis. But other than that, war is always by two sides that have different interests, both have their share of corruption, grievances ect. Thats why theres a saying "in war there are no winners, only losers".
the communist leadership and modern western world elites are psychopathic as well. the being no pure black and white does not mean there are still lighter and darker grays
I love star wars. It's such a huge universe,.with hundreds of stories to tell and that have been told. It's amazing how wide it is for a fictional world
Now they just need to tell these stories in the movie and series formats. Andor was a great start, but they need to do a lot more. Can't believe we still don't have any old republic content.
@@frankdees507 I loved the clone war series not only cause it went through Anakins story more but I loved the quotes at the beginning sometimes it would a dumb one I think that’s stupid but they could have another one and am like damn that hits me
For me, the Republic vilified themselves when they approved cloning human beings to be used as canon fodder while the Confederacy had the decency to use machines. And I'll for the life of me never understand how the Jedi Order didn't interpret this as a dark sided act
I agree for the most part except that most of the Separatist leadership *_was_* that bad or at least completely devoid of morality. Individuals like Gunray wanted to escape the corrupt Republic just so they can be free to run their own morally-corrupt system of government that caters to their own whim and profits, and their wish for a peaceful succession was out of fear for their own skin then any actual care for the well-being of their "people" and potentially wasting valuable resources to a full-on war effort. And maybe I'm just a bit biased here, but if the CIS were somehow presented with a feasible means of completely overthrowing the Republic and ruling the Galaxy themselves, I don't think they would totally pass up that chance.
The idea of the Separatists was independence from the Republic, it wasn't to rule all, if anything it was meant to be an alternative from the Republic.
The Republic wasn't even a Democracy. The whole thing was structured somewhat similarly to the European Commission but with no input from the populace of the "Republic", like at all.
I wish that there could be another timeline or side story that we could see kind of like what if where the Republic and the separatists survived and had to fight the empire together. A timeline where order 66 didn't go as planned and Palpatine had to use a different method to build his empire. So I'm not sure how that would work because having the Republic under his full control was a massive necessity in order to build his empire.
Believe it or not, Palpatine did have a contention plan should Order 66 not succeed, he called it Order 99. This order would cause the droids primary function to shut down and restart, switching alliances to the Grand Republic, thus gunning down the CIS leaders. We aren’t exactly certain what would have happened if this order had been enacted, but it would have definitely caused great confusion and possibly still got Palpatine what he wanted in a round about way.
It's interesting that The Clone Wars were pretty much told from The Empire's perspective. The fledgling Republic held out against the sinister separatists and inacted the emergency powers necessary to bring peace and order, and deal with the dastardly outer rim and those plucky, restless punks in the mid rim. Now however, we're starting to see things from the separatists perspective, and they in fact played a large role in the Rebel Alliance. There is still much to explore from the separatists viewpoints, including Count Dooku's motives.
In the show there was some showing of the separatist perspective (still trough the lens of republic characters and allies) but it did give them more depth and showed that they were manipulated by some of the higher up separatist leaders along with Dooku and Palpatine.
There is a couple of episodes in the clone wars where Ashoka is part of a deligation to a sepratist world and during a chat with the leader of the world (Think the leader was a personal friend of padme) Ashoka mentioned that she thought all sepratists was evil, and the leader of the world said that not all of us is evil. but sadly there is people in charge of the war that is (or something like that been maybe 10 years since i watched the episode) This shows how effective the entire smokescreen of the sith acctualy is in the regard of tricking the galaxy to dancing to their "music"
Its funny that the Jedi claim they are the bringers of peace and love unless they are told to commit atrocities. The Jedi did the dirty work of the republic to maintain their high standing which makes them just as bad as the Sith if not worst.
@@chiquita683 *Yeah well, you're one to talk after what you've done to South America, just cause someone's parents don't meet your quotas doesn't mean you can chop their hands off, who do you think you are Darth Vader!*
Guy’s don’t know if you know this but anyway when I first watched The “Phantom Menace.” The Separatists wanted Naboo to sign a peace treaty. But Padme (The queen) Declined Since The queen declined the peace treaty they invaded because they were probably in a war and the separatists wanted to End it.
I think u are absolutely right sir, after watchinh the prequels and the entire clone wars series i also have come to this conclusion, even though they were being made pawns to the Sith Grand Plan the C. I. S. only had total independence in their minds, they were right about the corruption in the Republic.
The Separatist Council certainly was evil, but the movement itself was good. Plus its hard to seperate their actions from the fact that Palpatine was controlling them from behind the scenes. Take Palpatine out of the picture, and it likely would have looked a lot clearer.
Heres where everyone is wrong about as to when The Empire was founded it has been in place since the beginning of the war The Old Republic was all but name at that point if you notice at the end of The Clone War Clones were wearing Imperial equipment and clothing by the end of it if you are a true Star Wars Fan you would have already seen it let alone come to this conclusion at the end of the day not even the clones knew who they were truly fighting for until the end when they were replaced by weak and lesser men
Thank you so much for making this video.I always new that the Confederacy of independent Systems or the CIS was not bad and that the Republic was bad .I always routed on the Separates in the Clone Wars series and I was so sad 😢when the leaders of this great movement were killed
@@diostaku2 Palpatine is like Voldemort and everything abt him from his upbringing to his uprising as a Sith Lord is jus irredeemable in truth there was never anything good abt him from the start same goes for You Know Who
@@chiquita683 The republic had no authority in the outer rim. so even if they wanted to free them, they couldn't. That's like saying America should free slaves in Africa or Russia. They dont have authority there. Also, what child soldiers? The padawns? While i agree they shouldn't have fought in the war, the republic has no control over what the jedi council does.
@@theshimario253 Ignoring the Republic could have militarized to free them or at the very least purchased slaves to free. Also the Republic could have objected to Padawan being used in combat. And that’s ignoring the clones were quite literally a slave army.
No one is all good and no one is all bad huh? Palpatine: Hahahahaha! Me: Except him at least. He's someone I can name as 100% bad. His only show of goodness is a mask.
I felt this was a strong point of the prequels and somewhat clone wars show. The fact that slavery trade still exists, that republic generals were racist some overally some just towards clone troopers. Like real life noone is the good guy. In the republic, probably the person with only good intentions is Amidala, though she makes mistakes. The fact so much of the senate agreed to become an empire proves this. It makes sense when you understand that the republic was based on the Roman Republic as it transitioned to the Roman Empire, who were not exactly highly moral by modern standards with their xenophobia, classism and heavy use of slaves despite being democratic.
Depends on what you are talking about the separatist council or the average separatist soldier because newt gunray and separatist like him were definitely eveil
Yeah I agree, like in the clone wars the separatist parliament clearly wanted peace and were willing to negotiate every time the republic reached out to them.
I'm not a die hard fan so I don't have any of the books under my belt. Only the movies so I'm sorry the internet just a thought I had. If they weren't so bad why did they try to kill Obi-Wan and Anakin at the beginning of episode 1, they didn't seem very passive. But again I don't know the nuances of the behind the scenes. Awesome video. I always love them and thank you. You're right about one thing master. The negotiations were short.
Well, it was pretty much said in the prequels that they were separating from the republic because it was corrupt and wasn't helping the people. Palpatin was behind the whole thing and the war from both sides. So, it's not hard to see that there are two sides of the story here. I can see how the separatists felt the way they did. And when the Emperor spoke to the separatist leaders, he did not promise them "protection" under Vader. He said when he arrives, "he will take care of you". And he did. Lol!
This is partially true. From previous knowledge and what's been researched, the Confederate "leaders" weren't leaders as much of the CIS. They were key figure and business leaders the actual CIS Senate, chancellor and people put their faith and trust in due to various factors. It's also worth noting that these government officials were in the dark about what this secret council did and approved, even giving Dooku a peace prize award while he was offing thousands of species. In fact the leaders believed having droid soldiers was a moral approach to save countless lives. It's beyond tragic how trusting a lot of the leaders were to support and prop up these notorious corporate figureheads.
As with the real world, wars are almost never “good guys” vs “bad guys.” Usually the leaders are bad on BOTH sides and the soldiers are mostly regular good people who’ve either been deceived into doing what they thing is “good” or they’ve just been conscripted by force.
I find Swtor follows this flaw in the Republic quite well. But you don't get to see it as much, if you take the perspective of the Republic. THE Empire ain't much better, but they're more open and honest how they work. So I find at times the old Empire and Separatists to be the lesser evils. At least with their honesty, you know what you get
I find this story eerily reflected in today's political issues and the polarization of things. I find myself often asking what is behind this. Is there a puppet master like Sidious or is there no one person or group behind it but rather it's just the natural cycle of humans in the same way a flock of birds or school of fish seem to have a pattern that seems directed/orchestrated. I wasn't a huge fan of a lot of things in the prequels but the story itself has more depth than anything Disney is putting out. There is no direction like the originals, prequels and Marvel up to Endgame with these new stories. You can tell they are just making it up as they go along and there is no building up to anything with a payoff. I don't think these writers understand why Star Wars had such a lasting impact on fans. Sure it had cool lasers and space magic but it had timeless stories/myths whereas today's Star Wars tries to rely on shallow Woke ideology dressed up in Star Wars costumes.
In reality, there is no such thing of good or evil, because what is precieved as evil can be good and what is good can be evil. Depends on who is benefiting. Us human can be viewed as evil, we basically destroy nature, for food and shelter.
Can you make a video about Luke starkiller? I can barely find any information more than just he was Luke's original surname before it was changed, he has a design I believe originally "officially" in any media was like the first ever star wars comics I think and the mobile game star wars force arena where he had his own abilities and a yellow lightsaber but was more like a "for fun" addition to the game he's not even legends
I really don’t understand how can a people be wrong .. if they were tricked by someone who’s intentions was to sabotage and mislead. When Sidious would say, “ the quicker we do this, the quicker the war will end” .. he turned them against their morals in the end. The republic was manipulated into thinking that war was peace and they were all conflicted. If Anakin doesn’t stop Windu .. things are different, but unfortunately, he was manipulated by the same man who manipulated The Who galaxy.
Gunray had no choice. He was forced to make the decision The Jedi, on the other hand, willingly played into Palpatine's hands without any outside interference due to their rabid devotion to the Republic
Why were the clone wars called that in the first place? Of course about the clones, but you could have called them droid wars? Or was that also part of Palpitine's propaganda?
Because the droid wars were going on for a long time before the clones came in. The Clone Wars were a definitive shift in how the Republic fought the war
The Sith were behind both sides but, so that the people would never have true democracy or freedom. Similar to what happens today with designed opposition and like when weapons manufacturers arm all sides of a conflict...But the republic and the trade federation were both republics of a kind. They were both being played by the emperor and Dooku and before that Darth Plagueis.
Most of the Separatist leaders were evil in their own right, the citizens were just stuck in the middle. However, there were at least some Separatist worlds that were slavers, so that is a big factor to me in seeing them as just as bad as the Republic.
@King Orange I mean, off the top of my head, people make the American Revolution, Civil War, and WW2 to be black and white, no pun intended for the Civil War. American Revolution, England had a lot of war debt, and blamed the war on the colonies, so felt they should bare the brunt of the expenses. Civil War, not only was a core issue Federal overreach, but also ending slavery would upend the economy. Had to be done, of course, just like a meth head having to go through traumatic withdrawals to sober up, but it was a messy situation. WW2, Hitler did what he was voted in for, ending their own great depression, the same way we did, through militarization. Hitler himself was a rabid dog needed to be put down, but the citizens themselves were desperate and Hitler had both the charisma and the plan. Japan was even more understandable, they had little land, most of it unusable mountainous region. Thankfully the found a better path by providing quality products and being masters of trade. The Korean, Cuba, and Vietnam wars are proof that one can not afford to save everyone from bullies, and the Middle East is proof even just by providing weapons and training, it can come back to haunt you. Of course there are conspiracy theories on the economic motivations behind the Middle East wars. And that is just American history. Of course, there are various wars over land and resources, but that is only natural, and one could claim empires like Rome had a beneficial impact by bringing modern infrastructure to less developed areas. A shame Russia had to go this route, this day in age could they have not used subterfuge and economics to force Ukraine into submission? Even assassinations are preferable to leveling the entire land you want to inherit🫠 Ah, well. I do get Russia is like the American Civil War with Lincoln not being fond of the South being it's own nation, it is said that was his true primary motive for the war.
1st you are wrong Palpatine wasn't moonlighting as a Sith, Sidious was moonlighting as the chancellor 2nd Darth Tyrannous was the wrong person to place their hopes on sure, but not Count Doku
The corporations really played both sides here. Not without cause; arms dealers can make good money selling to both sides in war. Though it is still a messed up thing to do.
Even taking Palpatine out of the equation you still had a Galactic government that completely neglected the outer rim worlds and exploited those worlds for resources without proper protection, aid, or even fair representation.
The seperatists werent exactly all good guys but their reasoning for rebelling was just. The exact same reasons essentially that the colonies seceded from Great Britain
The corporations were not the only party of the Separatist. The council was a body of the CIS but was not the main government nor was it representative of the worlds that actually seceded.
“The marriage between the senate and corporations made it nearly impossible for unbiased legislation to pass.” Gee that sure seems familiar
😉😉!
Rings a bell…
Seems legit😮
Beat me to it sir, whooped my punkass right ti it. Bit much that, maybe? But for real, it's so sad that our institutions were such easy targets for George to use. So sad that our institutions have actually even come to that.
My thoughts exactly
I'm personally a Count Dooku Supporter and a Separatist Sympathiser. I personally believe from what we saw in Tales of the Jedi, the Movies and the Book Jedi Lost, that Dooku wasn't evil, the idea he wasn't a true sith is quite popular, I believe he chose what he believed to be the lesser of the two evils. He knew Palpatine planned to take over the Republic, sonI think he decided the emds justify the means and planned to execute Palpatine after they won, then create a new Republic with someone unbiased at the helm, while he worked on a new Jedi Order unbound to the Republic. That's why he looked so shocked in Revenge of the Sith, he realized that Plapatine new of his betrayal scheme and had been one step ahead of him the entire time. Mad respect thought for not ratting out Palpatine.
“Heroes are on both sides, evil is everywhere”
Too true. All people have their virtues and vices, and one rarely ever thinks of oneself as evil.
underrated episode
Agreed. I remember seeing in WW2 movies that Axis are normally considered villains, with Nazis shown as ruthless monsters in the holocaust to Japanese being portrayed as the main antagonists in many Pacific War movies.
However, movies such as Grave of the Fireflies are big exceptions, which show the horrors the Japs lived in during the city bombings and the result of the war being lost, as well as some of the interment camps in America that show Americans as basically racist and no different than the Nazis running the death camps in Poland and Germany (plus we didn't imprison German or Italian immigrants, but rather only Japanese, even if they were descendants).
And while the Nazis were quite evil in ways concerning the roots to the Holocaust (to the point that talking about WW2 in Germany is quite offensive), the Japanese, despite committing many war crimes, seemed to not be as bad as Italy and Germany. And the Allies were not innocent of war crimes, either. Basically, the war crimes committed by the Allies as well as the racist treatment to Japanese Americans can label both Allies and Axis countries as villains depending on the main characters.
No human ever chose where to be born. Not everyone even is proud of the country they live in. And as a result, there is not total evil or total heroism in fights. Wherever you go, there are good and bad people on both sides.
The Separatist MOVEMENT wasn’t evil, the Separatist Leaders and most of their high-ranking Officers were though.
I think we all remember the old "heroes on both sides" piece in the title crawl. There was an interesting chance to have a nuanced villian that's been lost. There's no sense running appologia for the separatists. It's entirely possible there were some lower ranked no names that were brought over by credible flaws in the system. But it's all destroyed when the seperatists have noone that is a no name because the no names are all robots.
Side with the republic
Absolutely no way that’s going to bite you in the ass
Hahahahahahaha true
i am for the separatist dooku and its leaders were not evil
@@edwinoers They absolutely were. Wat Tambor ordered the bombing of civilian villages. Nute Gunray established fascistic trade regulations and blockaded planets until its inhabitants starved.
In Rebels the commander droid said to Ezra, Kanan, Zeb, and Rex, "The point of the confedrecy was to break away from the tyranny of the Republic" these may not be what he exactly said but it gives pretty good detail about why.
Exactly. The Galactic Republic was already very Empire-like.
He even agreed to gather up more droid soldiers from Separatist holdouts and join the Rebels in their fight against the Empire. If only we could've actually seen it play out in the show.
Separatist's- We have legit grievances
Republic- I took that personally
The little musctach 1930s guy had legit grievances
Who? The valkiry worshiping heathen cucks and barbarians that got involved in a matter that didn't concern them in war where government were blamed for a humorous spontaneous event
I wouldn't be surprised if it were all planned socialists from the beginning
@@deemen7132Not even remotely similar but ok
@@deemen7132 No; a lot of the people following "The little moustache 1930s guy" had legit grievances. "The little moustache 1930s guy" co-opted those grievances to control the populace.
You shouldn't need this explained to you.
"Have you heard the tragedy of the seperatist's movement? It is not a tale any Republic would tell you."
As history is written by the winners and much is often gained by demonisation of your opponents.
According to TV Tropes the Separatists in Star Wars would be considered "Well-Intentioned Extremists."
The Clone Wars was like this:
The Separatists where the heroes playing the villains
The Republic where the villains playing the heroes
Everything was wack
One of the most poignant observations of the Star Wars universe was that outside of a handful of places, life was hard and everyone had PTSD. Everyone had seen death and war, but just kept going hoping that it would end.
You know the first character that flashed through my mind when I read this was Grievous? Dude literally changed his name to represent eternal mourning for a partner lost in war. PTSD extreme
Count Dooku in many ways personifies the tragedy of his times more than Anakin. He was truly a pivotable figure. No other being in the galaxy truly had a greater combination of political skill, popularity, respect, a true feeling for justice, and legitimate personal power as Dooku. Sidious was a tyrant who resorted to terror to rule, he could never actually rule by will of the people. Moreover he only cared about domination. Within Dooku was an exceptional person. Not only as a Force User but also as a leader. There are timelines where Dooku makes the galaxy a better place. One where Dooku isn't ignored by the Jedi and becomes Grand Master and changes the Republic for good. A timeline where Dooku never takes up Sidious' offer, and exposes him for the Jedi to destroy and who creates a CIS that lives peacefully with the Republic. A timeline where Dooku kills Sidious and wins the Clone Wars and rebuilds the galaxy. Dooku was not evil for the sake of being evil. Unlike Sidious, he had true charisma and respect and could have ruled without tyranny and terror. There is a timeline where Dooku still leaves the Jedi, ignores the Sith, but wins the Chancellorship himself. There is also a timeline that almost came to be, where Plagueis kills Sidious for loafing and makes Dooku his apprentice, and in due time Dooku becomes Chancellor. Together they rule with Plagueis and Dooku working together to solve many arcane mysteries while changing the Republic for the better.
Where might I find out more about those timelines?
@@Loneguy22 The archives of our own are incomplete... You can remedy this by recovering the tales yourself. Write down your findings and upload them to the database. We thank you for your services, young scholar.
I do know some finer details about one such timeline. In it, when Sidious calls on Dooku to betray Ventress, he refuses, putting contingency plans of his own into action. Ventress is alerted by him of Sidious' plans, hard evidence of who Palpatine truly is, is sent to the Jedi and the Republic Senate. Sidious, in turn, retaliates with the claim that the evidence is fabricated, but after a Jedi investigation is launched, he is forced to execute order 66 prematurely, and more forcefully coup the Senate, arresting most senators, and using the clone army to implement martial law, transforming the Republic into the Empire with far less popular support than he had in the timeline we're all familiar with.
As a result, those who would have otherwise gone on to join or form the Rebel Alliance, instead join up with Dooku's separatists, including many of the surviving Jedi, including Plo Koon, Anakin, Yoda and Kenobi, while various others die, either trying to confront Sidious, such as Windu, or shot down by the clones during Order 66, such as Mundi. Many more survive than was the case in our timeline, though, due to it still being earlier into the Clone Wars, and the Jedi being more alert and on edge due to the circumstances than they were in our timeline, when the war was already all but won. Dooku, embracing a more grey mindset, allies with Talzin and the Nightsisters too, using Ventress as an intermediary for those purposes. Sidious, deprived of an apprentice, and with Anakin having slipped through his fingers, attempts to salvage the situation by finding and, with cybernetics akin to Vader's, rebuilding, Darth Maul. During a confrontation between Maul and Talzin, however, the clan-mother manages to break through her wayward son' madness, and restore him to sanity, while also rebuilding his body properly.
As part of the negotiations between Dooku and the anti-imperial Republic loyalists, the mega-corporations' influence within the Separatist movement is eliminated, their leaders arrested, and their droids incited to rebel against the corporations, and join the Separatists as autonomous, volunteer members. Droid rights become a cornerstone of the reformed separatist movement. As the inhibitor chips within the clones begin to malfunction, an ever-increasing number of them desert and join the Separatists. Before long, a popular uprising on Coruscant, from the criminal underbelly of the city, ascends to the surface even as the Separatists lay siege to the planet, and Palpatine is killed in a duel, confronted by Dooku, Yoda, Talzin, Maul, Kenobi and Anakin. Overwhelmed, he is killed by Anakin, and the Empire surrenders. A new Galactic Confederation is formed in place of the Old Republic, with a greater emphasis on representation for formerly disenfranchised worlds, democracy on the local level, and harmonious cooperation on the overarching level. After a brief war against the Hutts, Zygerrians and the other crime syndicates, peace is restored to the galaxy - not just a negative peace, which is the absence of direct conflict, but a positive peace, which is an absence of systemic violence and injustice, too.
Even so, he was still a willing sith. He wanted power, and he used the sith to achieve power. He may have had a good sense of justice, but he still craved personal power.
Sidious should've kept Dooku instead of Anakin. Way better second in command for ruling an empire than the Vader we know or even a healthy yet still instable Anakin.
Bro....this isn't Marvel. There are no alternative timelines
Count Dooku was a visionary!
In war there are rarely ever "good guys and bad guys", just people with different goals and opinions. The only war I could possibly think of in real history that has a side that without a doubt could be considered "evil" is obviously the Nazis. But other than that, war is always by two sides that have different interests, both have their share of corruption, grievances ect. Thats why theres a saying "in war there are no winners, only losers".
the communist leadership and modern western world elites are psychopathic as well.
the being no pure black and white does not mean there are still lighter and darker grays
Britain and USSR weren't good either.
I believe this is one of the best analyses I’ve seen on this channel. Excellent work.
I love star wars. It's such a huge universe,.with hundreds of stories to tell and that have been told. It's amazing how wide it is for a fictional world
True, not to mention the real life lessons involved. You can probably learn more from Yodas philosophies than a reality show. Lol
Now they just need to tell these stories in the movie and series formats. Andor was a great start, but they need to do a lot more. Can't believe we still don't have any old republic content.
@@frankdees507 I loved the clone war series not only cause it went through Anakins story more but I loved the quotes at the beginning sometimes it would a dumb one I think that’s stupid but they could have another one and am like damn that hits me
“A long time ago in a galaxy far far away…” …maybe it isn’t fiction 🛸
So the Jedi Order has chosen already between the Will of the Force and the Will of the Senate. And such a great choice they've chosen.
Dooku was a visionary
For me, the Republic vilified themselves when they approved cloning human beings to be used as canon fodder while the Confederacy had the decency to use machines. And I'll for the life of me never understand how the Jedi Order didn't interpret this as a dark sided act
I agree for the most part except that most of the Separatist leadership *_was_* that bad or at least completely devoid of morality.
Individuals like Gunray wanted to escape the corrupt Republic just so they can be free to run their own morally-corrupt system of government that caters to their own whim and profits, and their wish for a peaceful succession was out of fear for their own skin then any actual care for the well-being of their "people" and potentially wasting valuable resources to a full-on war effort.
And maybe I'm just a bit biased here, but if the CIS were somehow presented with a feasible means of completely overthrowing the Republic and ruling the Galaxy themselves, I don't think they would totally pass up that chance.
The idea of the Separatists was independence from the Republic, it wasn't to rule all, if anything it was meant to be an alternative from the Republic.
As a fan of the CIS myself... were the Separatists bad? Maybe. Kind of. Evil? Not really. Were they right? Well... at least to an extent, yes.
The Republic wasn't even a Democracy. The whole thing was structured somewhat similarly to the European Commission but with no input from the populace of the "Republic", like at all.
The prequel worldbuilding is closer to how Gundam timelines are like
I wish that there could be another timeline or side story that we could see kind of like what if where the Republic and the separatists survived and had to fight the empire together. A timeline where order 66 didn't go as planned and Palpatine had to use a different method to build his empire. So I'm not sure how that would work because having the Republic under his full control was a massive necessity in order to build his empire.
Believe it or not, Palpatine did have a contention plan should Order 66 not succeed, he called it Order 99. This order would cause the droids primary function to shut down and restart, switching alliances to the Grand Republic, thus gunning down the CIS leaders. We aren’t exactly certain what would have happened if this order had been enacted, but it would have definitely caused great confusion and possibly still got Palpatine what he wanted in a round about way.
Tbh the star wars world is the only world that relates to the real world.
Conflicts. Politics. Corruption. War.
Very cool breakdown of the beginnings and history of the Separatist Movement.
It's interesting that The Clone Wars were pretty much told from The Empire's perspective. The fledgling Republic held out against the sinister separatists and inacted the emergency powers necessary to bring peace and order, and deal with the dastardly outer rim and those plucky, restless punks in the mid rim.
Now however, we're starting to see things from the separatists perspective, and they in fact played a large role in the Rebel Alliance. There is still much to explore from the separatists viewpoints, including Count Dooku's motives.
In the show there was some showing of the separatist perspective (still trough the lens of republic characters and allies) but it did give them more depth and showed that they were manipulated by some of the higher up separatist leaders along with Dooku and Palpatine.
The separatists tried to bring peace in their own way but no!!! They chose to make a deal with a Sith Lord that wanted dominion over the Galaxy.
They were tricked like everyone else
Can’t fully blame them
I'm pretty sure that wasn't on his resume` when they hired him.
There is a couple of episodes in the clone wars where Ashoka is part of a deligation to a sepratist world and during a chat with the leader of the world (Think the leader was a personal friend of padme) Ashoka mentioned that she thought all sepratists was evil, and the leader of the world said that not all of us is evil. but sadly there is people in charge of the war that is (or something like that been maybe 10 years since i watched the episode)
This shows how effective the entire smokescreen of the sith acctualy is in the regard of tricking the galaxy to dancing to their "music"
Heroes on both sides episode
They were used by Palpatine to do his dirty work
Its funny that the Jedi claim they are the bringers of peace and love unless they are told to commit atrocities. The Jedi did the dirty work of the republic to maintain their high standing which makes them just as bad as the Sith if not worst.
@@chiquita683 *Yeah well, you're one to talk after what you've done to South America, just cause someone's parents don't meet your quotas doesn't mean you can chop their hands off, who do you think you are Darth Vader!*
Just like Palp used the clones...
Guy’s don’t know if you know this but anyway when I first watched The “Phantom Menace.” The Separatists wanted Naboo to sign a peace treaty. But Padme (The queen) Declined Since The queen declined the peace treaty they invaded because they were probably in a war and the separatists wanted to End it.
That was the Trade Federation, not the Separatists.
The Separatist movement is like the Galactic Republic. Morally grey and forced to do evil for their ideals.
"No one is all bad", except for Palpatine lol
I think u are absolutely right sir, after watchinh the prequels and the entire clone wars series i also have come to this conclusion, even though they were being made pawns to the Sith Grand Plan the C. I. S. only had total independence in their minds, they were right about the corruption in the Republic.
Just wanted to say using terms like acolytes and halocron helps with feeling immersed in the video 👍🏽
Definitely agreed. Like that little detail
I'm pretty sure they was, because they committed quite few atrocities. They seemed pretty fine with having Nuvo Vindi and look what he did.
just watch the video men....
The Separatist Council certainly was evil, but the movement itself was good. Plus its hard to seperate their actions from the fact that Palpatine was controlling them from behind the scenes. Take Palpatine out of the picture, and it likely would have looked a lot clearer.
Ok? The republic commited numerous atrocities while taxing you and letting pirates and slavers kill you of you weren’t a human from the core.
Heres where everyone is wrong about as to when The Empire was founded it has been in place since the beginning of the war The Old Republic was all but name at that point if you notice at the end of The Clone War Clones were wearing Imperial equipment and clothing by the end of it if you are a true Star Wars Fan you would have already seen it let alone come to this conclusion at the end of the day not even the clones knew who they were truly fighting for until the end when they were replaced by weak and lesser men
The Stupendous Wave - "No one is all good and no one is all bad."
Me: counter...Darth Sideous
Thank you so much for making this video.I always new that the Confederacy of independent Systems or the CIS was not bad and that the Republic was bad .I always routed on the Separates in the Clone Wars series and I was so sad 😢when the leaders of this great movement were killed
As a Separatist, i agree. we need freedom from the Corrupt Republic! Who’s with me!!
Man the outro song slaps today
I AM THE EVIL
“No one is all good and no one is all bad” EXCEPT FOR QUI GON
Like the God of Mischief once said: “ No one good is ever truly good, and no one evil is ever truly bad”
Except for Palpatine, he was pure evil in every sense of the word.
@@diostaku2 Palpatine is like Voldemort and everything abt him from his upbringing to his uprising as a Sith Lord is jus irredeemable in truth there was never anything good abt him from the start same goes for You Know Who
Thanos: blah blah blah, just let me kill half the galaxy already!
I have a video recommendation. You should do one covering The Dark Reaper. That sith super weapon.
Sooooo Dooku= Solidus Snake?
If you know, you know.
Keep that outro beat on your videos bro 🔥🔥
They were def evil. They did evil things like killing innocent civilians and using them a slaves.
They refused to free Anakins mother from slavery and had no problem with using children as soldiers in a war
@@chiquita683 The republic had no authority in the outer rim. so even if they wanted to free them, they couldn't. That's like saying America should free slaves in Africa or Russia. They dont have authority there.
Also, what child soldiers? The padawns? While i agree they shouldn't have fought in the war, the republic has no control over what the jedi council does.
@theshimario253 you obviously don't pay much attention, the Jedi were nothing but lap dogs for their Republic masters.
@@theshimario253 Ignoring the Republic could have militarized to free them or at the very least purchased slaves to free. Also the Republic could have objected to Padawan being used in combat. And that’s ignoring the clones were quite literally a slave army.
@@kingorange7739 Purchasing slaves would've simply given them the capital to enslave more people.
Neither the Republic nor the CIS were evil overall, but both had evil leadership, and both ultimately answered to Darth Sidious.
No one is all good and no one is all bad huh?
Palpatine: Hahahahaha!
Me: Except him at least. He's someone I can name as 100% bad. His only show of goodness is a mask.
I felt this was a strong point of the prequels and somewhat clone wars show. The fact that slavery trade still exists, that republic generals were racist some overally some just towards clone troopers. Like real life noone is the good guy. In the republic, probably the person with only good intentions is Amidala, though she makes mistakes. The fact so much of the senate agreed to become an empire proves this. It makes sense when you understand that the republic was based on the Roman Republic as it transitioned to the Roman Empire, who were not exactly highly moral by modern standards with their xenophobia, classism and heavy use of slaves despite being democratic.
Depends on what you are talking about the separatist council or the average separatist soldier because newt gunray and separatist like him were definitely eveil
Yeah I agree, like in the clone wars the separatist parliament clearly wanted peace and were willing to negotiate every time the republic reached out to them.
thank you for this video
The Separatists were sold a bill of goods just like the Republic by the same salesman, Palpatine!
I was always curious about this story
I'm not a die hard fan so I don't have any of the books under my belt. Only the movies so I'm sorry the internet just a thought I had. If they weren't so bad why did they try to kill Obi-Wan and Anakin at the beginning of episode 1, they didn't seem very passive. But again I don't know the nuances of the behind the scenes. Awesome video. I always love them and thank you.
You're right about one thing master. The negotiations were short.
Episode 1?
You mean Obi Wan and Qui Gon? Also that was the Trade Federation, not the Separatists as the Separatists didn’t form till 8 years after that event
Some disturbing parallels to real life here.
Well, it was pretty much said in the prequels that they were separating from the republic because it was corrupt and wasn't helping the people. Palpatin was behind the whole thing and the war from both sides. So, it's not hard to see that there are two sides of the story here. I can see how the separatists felt the way they did. And when the Emperor spoke to the separatist leaders, he did not promise them "protection" under Vader. He said when he arrives, "he will take care of you". And he did. Lol!
I think Dooku when to betray Palatine and save the separatist planets from the Empire
Yeah, I could see this movie as a fan nonfiction. It's possible.
This is partially true. From previous knowledge and what's been researched, the Confederate "leaders" weren't leaders as much of the CIS. They were key figure and business leaders the actual CIS Senate, chancellor and people put their faith and trust in due to various factors. It's also worth noting that these government officials were in the dark about what this secret council did and approved, even giving Dooku a peace prize award while he was offing thousands of species. In fact the leaders believed having droid soldiers was a moral approach to save countless lives. It's beyond tragic how trusting a lot of the leaders were to support and prop up these notorious corporate figureheads.
No one is all bad.
Palpatine: ......................good, good.
Self-determination for all star systems!
As with the real world, wars are almost never “good guys” vs “bad guys.” Usually the leaders are bad on BOTH sides and the soldiers are mostly regular good people who’ve either been deceived into doing what they thing is “good” or they’ve just been conscripted by force.
I find Swtor follows this flaw in the Republic quite well. But you don't get to see it as much, if you take the perspective of the Republic.
THE Empire ain't much better, but they're more open and honest how they work. So I find at times the old Empire and Separatists to be the lesser evils. At least with their honesty, you know what you get
Separatists: We just want to be left alone
Jedi: I say the whole universe must learn our peaceful ways...by FORCE
ORDER 66
Order 65
I find this story eerily reflected in today's political issues and the polarization of things. I find myself often asking what is behind this. Is there a puppet master like Sidious or is there no one person or group behind it but rather it's just the natural cycle of humans in the same way a flock of birds or school of fish seem to have a pattern that seems directed/orchestrated.
I wasn't a huge fan of a lot of things in the prequels but the story itself has more depth than anything Disney is putting out. There is no direction like the originals, prequels and Marvel up to Endgame with these new stories. You can tell they are just making it up as they go along and there is no building up to anything with a payoff. I don't think these writers understand why Star Wars had such a lasting impact on fans. Sure it had cool lasers and space magic but it had timeless stories/myths whereas today's Star Wars tries to rely on shallow Woke ideology dressed up in Star Wars costumes.
In reality, there is no such thing of good or evil, because what is precieved as evil can be good and what is good can be evil. Depends on who is benefiting. Us human can be viewed as evil, we basically destroy nature, for food and shelter.
Can you make a video about Luke starkiller? I can barely find any information more than just he was Luke's original surname before it was changed, he has a design I believe originally "officially" in any media was like the first ever star wars comics I think and the mobile game star wars force arena where he had his own abilities and a yellow lightsaber but was more like a "for fun" addition to the game he's not even legends
They was just puppets like anyone else who was weak enough to follow Sidious during that time.
I really don’t understand how can a people be wrong .. if they were tricked by someone who’s intentions was to sabotage and mislead. When Sidious would say, “ the quicker we do this, the quicker the war will end” .. he turned them against their morals in the end. The republic was manipulated into thinking that war was peace and they were all conflicted. If Anakin doesn’t stop Windu .. things are different, but unfortunately, he was manipulated by the same man who manipulated The Who galaxy.
The Techno Union, The Commerce Guild is another faction of the separatist movement. And "The Techno Guild" does not exist. 5:04
I can't say if it was right or wrong, only necessary
TBH, I actually feel a lot worse worse for Gunray than all the Jedi killed in the temple combine.
Gunray had no choice. He was forced to make the decision
The Jedi, on the other hand, willingly played into Palpatine's hands without any outside interference due to their rabid devotion to the Republic
Why were the clone wars called that in the first place? Of course about the clones, but you could have called them droid wars? Or was that also part of Palpitine's propaganda?
Because the droid wars were going on for a long time before the clones came in. The Clone Wars were a definitive shift in how the Republic fought the war
The Sith were behind both sides but, so that the people would never have true democracy or freedom. Similar to what happens today with designed opposition and like when weapons manufacturers arm all sides of a conflict...But the republic and the trade federation were both republics of a kind. They were both being played by the emperor and Dooku and before that Darth Plagueis.
Anyone getting real world vibes from this ?? 🤔 this plot seems too familiar
Most of the Separatist leaders were evil in their own right, the citizens were just stuck in the middle. However, there were at least some Separatist worlds that were slavers, so that is a big factor to me in seeing them as just as bad as the Republic.
However! Both sides were fooled they were fighting for no particular reason.
Civil Wars, and indeed all wars, are all gray.
I wouldn’t say all, but a great many were
@King Orange I mean, off the top of my head, people make the American Revolution, Civil War, and WW2 to be black and white, no pun intended for the Civil War.
American Revolution, England had a lot of war debt, and blamed the war on the colonies, so felt they should bare the brunt of the expenses.
Civil War, not only was a core issue Federal overreach, but also ending slavery would upend the economy. Had to be done, of course, just like a meth head having to go through traumatic withdrawals to sober up, but it was a messy situation.
WW2, Hitler did what he was voted in for, ending their own great depression, the same way we did, through militarization. Hitler himself was a rabid dog needed to be put down, but the citizens themselves were desperate and Hitler had both the charisma and the plan. Japan was even more understandable, they had little land, most of it unusable mountainous region. Thankfully the found a better path by providing quality products and being masters of trade.
The Korean, Cuba, and Vietnam wars are proof that one can not afford to save everyone from bullies, and the Middle East is proof even just by providing weapons and training, it can come back to haunt you. Of course there are conspiracy theories on the economic motivations behind the Middle East wars.
And that is just American history. Of course, there are various wars over land and resources, but that is only natural, and one could claim empires like Rome had a beneficial impact by bringing modern infrastructure to less developed areas.
A shame Russia had to go this route, this day in age could they have not used subterfuge and economics to force Ukraine into submission? Even assassinations are preferable to leveling the entire land you want to inherit🫠
Ah, well. I do get Russia is like the American Civil War with Lincoln not being fond of the South being it's own nation, it is said that was his true primary motive for the war.
I vaguely remember an episode where they actually show the government for the separatist and they weren't evil at all
Can you explain where darth Revan's helmet came from. Please
It was a mandolorians woman helmet who disapproved of the mandolorian wars so she was slaughtered
@@panchovilla2505 thank you!!
I agree with this
Hmm a marriage between corporations and government? Sounds familiar lol.
Well in the movies it show that they were just puppets to the empire.
1st you are wrong Palpatine wasn't moonlighting as a Sith, Sidious was moonlighting as the chancellor
2nd Darth Tyrannous was the wrong person to place their hopes on sure, but not Count Doku
The corporations really played both sides here. Not without cause; arms dealers can make good money selling to both sides in war. Though it is still a messed up thing to do.
Amazing
The Republic was wrong ???? It was the Palps he was playing both sides
Even taking Palpatine out of the equation you still had a Galactic government that completely neglected the outer rim worlds and exploited those worlds for resources without proper protection, aid, or even fair representation.
My mind has been blown!!!
The seperatists werent exactly all good guys but their reasoning for rebelling was just. The exact same reasons essentially that the colonies seceded from Great Britain
"The separatists were objecting to the Corporations" when they were the Corporations?
I think that a rethink might be in order...
The corporations were not the only party of the Separatist. The council was a body of the CIS but was not the main government nor was it representative of the worlds that actually seceded.
Both republicans and separatists could have a meeting and discuss the issue
They tried to and it didn't work and when it almost did bomb droid temporarily disable Coruscant and as a result the war kept going
I mean the republic was always wrong when palpatine was playing both sides
True
Pretty sure everyone with good sense and attention to detail knew this already.
A good servant but a bad master
Luke skywalker grandfather lives and he coming king plagues wise coming he behind everything
The Seperatist cause was good until it's leaders made a deal with the devil in Darth Sidious.
See some realistic similarities between the the United States government/senate and this relationship between Jedi/Sith, don't we?