Part 2- 2019 KTM 250 EXC TPI Spark Plug
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- In Part 1 I examined my stock KTM 2019 250 EXC TPI extended reach spark plug (NGK ZGR7GI) and found no damage and it looked good. I also compared it to a standard reach plug (BR7EIX) and mentioned I would being trying it due to cheaper cost and possibly improved reliability. Following the release of the video I received a lot of feedback and it turns out I had overlooked two important advantages of the stock extended reach plug:
1) Improved anti-fouling performance
2) A standard reach plug will appear to retard the timing compared to an extended reach plug
As such I'm going to continue using the stock plug, or possibly the NGK BPR7EIX which is similar dimensions but considerably cheaper.
2019 KTM 250 EXC TPI with RK TEK Head
2017 KTM 250 EXC with Keihin 38mm + STIC & RK TEK Head
Webshop: www.tokyooffroad.com/shop/
TShirts: www.storefrontier.com/store/t...
Facebook: / tokyooffroad - Авто та транспорт
This video sums it up perfectly. Slavens is a good guy and sells nice stuff but the KTM engineers know what they are doing. Combination of a few early release "lemons" and people messing with the fueling damaged an already lean running engine. Stock plug is fine. Love your channel.
I switched to the standard reach plug last week. I run a high compression head and a GET ECU. Bike was at 40hrs anyway. I didnt notice a noticeable difference in how the bike runs at all. So only thing it does is it saves you a little $$$ in plugs. Nothing wrong with a little insurance and money savings. I dont think people with stock bikes would see problems. My bike sees quite a bit of WOT in 6th duty in the desert so it couldnt hurt.
I do have to hand it to Jeff Slavens though this bike has awesome power with the S3 cylinder head and the custom GET ECU map. Runs way better too. Wish it came from the factory like this.
Thank you. I hope the people who watched Salvens video and are all freaked out about blowing up their bikes watch this. As mentioned in another comment I believe the issue Salvens found is probably more to do with engine mods that were done. I'm confident KTM knows what they are doing when they build these bikes.
Just the info I needed. Thanks! Great respect for your channel too... always good stuff.
Well said as usual. Enjoy your channel immensely thanks
Thanks for the heads up. Stock it will be for me.
My 2019 300i is awesome. It does have a different growl as your rolling down the trail. When it is in that growl section it seems to have a slight bog when accelerating
My 2018 250i had weird acceleration glitches while making aggressive elevation changes while traveling through rain, fog and snow.
I also found that while the 2018 250i model enjoyed the three quick start stop scenario after riding in a truck to different elevations, while the 2019 300i does not seem to care.
Looking for feed back.
I would have thought it would make more difference to the compression but without seeing the squish or dome with both plugs fitted its hard to say.
I have 55 hours on my original stock plug and working just fine.
Hi Tokyo Offroad the BPR7EIX may not have the same ground electrode special design feature as the ZGR7GI. The G may designate a stronger design of electrode or possibly the ground electrode may have a copper core to assist cooling. NGK do not specifically release special design features to protect their R&D technology.
Major Fatty - I don’t doubt that they’re not exactly the same. I personally will continue to use the stock plugs as I prefer to minimize any possible issues I might run into.
Tokyo Offroad, I wonder if using a different head like the RK Tek head, which has a different dome shape may itself change the effective plug reach, and thus virtually change the effective ignition timing by a little. If it does change any, it’s for the good I imagine as you said the bike does better low end with the RK Tek head.
Excellent follow up to the Part 1 btw. 👏
Good point. I just compared the stock KTM 250 TPI head to an RK Tek 250 TPI head. The spark plug is approximately 0.7mm further from the piston top with the RK Tek head compared to the stock head. I.e. The spark plug position is very similar. With a KTM 250 SX head the spark plug is approximately 3mm closer to the piston top compared to a 250 TPI head. Quite a big difference.
Hello Mark, Marry Chrismas!
please let me know about NGK ZGR7GI 13G - There is 13G so there is 1.3mm gap in electrode, so do I must change by manual spesifications (0.6mm) or I must live on it?
Thanks,
Cheers!
2019 NGK ZGR7GI, day 1 on TPI had issues with backfire, fouled plug, no performance, no quick rev, no bottom end etc. Went to BR7EIX after fouled plug in field and ran perfect.
20HR on bike. no mods.
Not sure what the cause was. Maybe the original plug wasn't good. I'm still using the original NGK ZGR7GI on my 2019 KTM 250 TPI and have never fouled it, or experienced an issues after 82H of riding.
This morning I phoned the dealer I got the 2022 KTM 300 XC TPI bike from and they said the KTM parts list shows the NGK BR7ES (bike came with this & owners manual shows this) but the KTM parts list shows also the NGK ZGR7GI - 3G as an upgrade to be used, KTM part # 55439193000 (in Canada).
So the NGK ZGR7GI - 3G is not a total replacement but a suggested upgrade.
Looking at the color of the spark plug with your stock head as well as the RK it is looking pretty nice and not at all lean. Would you mind commenting on if you made any idle adjustments with the external air screw or did you use the internal throttle stop screw?
No, I have not made any idle adjustments. I have not fitted a Slavens adjuster screw.
Thanks for the great video, and an argument for running the stock plug grounded in science. I too wondered if Slavens was getting cooked plugs as a result of engine mods... What are your thoughts on the Slavens Idle screw?
What MAP are you running?
Chad de Alva idle screw works great.
Agreed, on my stock 300, the pickup of idle is greatly improved.
Yeah someone else also mentioned this: the blown up engines that came to slavens were probably running his high compression head and possibly other engine porting mods. May be that is what causes them to run way lean.
Agreed, easy for Slavens to just blame KTM and get everyone freaked out.
Tnx for the update video :)
Would you check the plug condition more often though because of the possible "risk"? There is any way to tell that it's about to fail before it actually happens?
In the KTM TPI manual it recommends changing the spark plug every 40H. Assuming the engine is running well this should mitigate any spark plug failure issue concerns.
@@TokyoOffroad BTW what mic you use for the videos?
@@NirHason I use an Azden SMX-30 microphone connected to my Canon 80D
www.azden.com/smx-30-mic/
I was just looking at your calculation. I didn't think you had taken the flame front time into consideration. But one crank revolution would be .41 sec not 40 nd.
Assuming 1500 rpm, in one second there would be 25 rotations. One revolution time= 1/25=40ms (0.04s)
Hi mate what gap are you running on the ZGR7GI 13g plug the gap looks pretty big out of the box the manual States a gap of 0.6mm For my 21 ec300 gas gas
Love your videos mate
1.3mm
Hi Tokyo Offroad do you run premium unleaded fuel or leaded race fuel in your bike?
I use premium unleaded pump gasoline
I with 2013 ktm exc 300 i go with Russian spark plug its cheper then 1 euro and go 50 haurs dont change it. no problems
My 2022 KTM 300 XC TPI uses a NGK BR7ES which is what it came with and the owners manual lists.
Yes, from 2020 TPIs use an NGK BR7ES as the stock plug. That's what I'm using in my 2021 300 EXC TPI...
@@TokyoOffroad Thank you for the reply and info.. I got it as my 1st KTM ever July 17 and am still enjoying going over it. So it still shows 0.0 hours. Lol.
I love checking almost everything before that 1st ride.
I have one of your left lower silicone black rad hoses on order that you replied has been processed & on its way to Canada.
A dealer I had originally ordered the bike through sold me NGK ZGR7GI- 3G. Not cheap plugs. Then once I got the bike and the owners manual the expensive longer iridium plug was not listed.
I guess I will try to find some one who needs these plugs in my area.
@@TokyoOffroad This morning I phoned the dealer I got the bike from and they said the KTM parts list shows the NGK BR7ES but also lists the NGK ZGR7GI - 3G as an upgrade to be used, KTM part # 55439193000.
So not a total replacement but a suggested upgrade.
Hey Another topic. Some people says that tpi running to lean,when its cold, and more Than 3sec full gas etc. Have u had any problems with that? I just bought a 300 2019 sixdays and im abit worried if people that say they running lean have right? Thx for awesome channel
Gundee - I think it depends on the map installed. My experience with the 2019 bikes (my KTM 250EXC TPI and a friend’s Husky TE250i) is that they are not running lean. But there may be some bike to bike variation. If your bike is not performing well and you are concerned I’d recommend you talk to your dealer.
@@TokyoOffroad thx alot for answer! Ive Only done about 2.5hr and so far so god! Thx alot m8 ute awesome!
slavens is a nice guy for the industry but sometimes he is full of shit (thats actually a joke between my riding buddies & I). I trust what you said better because you go far & beyond the rumors...awesome vid as usual!
I meant to say shorter not longer.
So are we saying that both BR7ES and ZGR7GI are ok to use with similar characteristics ? My 2020 300tpi came fitted with the ZG plug and the BR as a spare. Also what gap for each plug ? Book says 0.6mm for BR plug. No note about ZG plug. My ZG plug current gap is 1.2mm.
No, the BR7ES is a standard reach plug and the ZGR7GI is a long reach plug. They are not the same. 2020 model TPIs come stock with standard reach BR7ES spark plugs. I'm not sure why yours has a ZGR7GI (long reach) plug in it. I would discuss this with the dealer you purchased it from as stock it should be a BR7ES.
Tokyo Offroad Ok. Thanks for the reply. So what TPI bikes should run the ZG plugs and what bikes should run the BR plugs ?
@@mickey333100 2018/2019 - ZG. 2020/2021 - BR.
is it weird that I am so interested in a spark plug I don't have for a bike I don't own?
LOL. Spark plugs and oil, everyone seems to be interested in these two things and have an opinion ;-)
@@TokyoOffroad And tires!
Are these plugs still being used on the 2020s and 2021s? is it just on EXC/XCW or XC as well?
No, the stock plug used in 2020/21 bikes is a BR7ES
@@TokyoOffroad Thank you! I wonder why they keep going back and fourth. Cost savings?
@@TokyoOffroad My 2020 EXCW 6 days stock spark plug is ZGR7GI-13G
Every Time i see the intro....i feel like...Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap🛵🌪
Help! I have gone through 4 Spark plugs. 2020 300 xc. Bike only has 9 hrs on it. Using the BR7ES
Wow, something is definitely wrong. When do the plugs foul, on start-up, or while running? If on start-up what starting procedure do you use?
@Overlander 123 - Interesting. From the 2020 model the stock sparkplug changed to BR7ES which is shorter than the ZGR7GI. I'm using a BR7ES in my 2021 300 TPI and it has been running fine with it.
Did you solve the problem?
I bought a 2013 Ktm xcw 250 tpi and I have changed 6 spark plugs.
Did you solve the problem?
I bought a 2023* Ktm xcW 250 tpi and I have changed 6 spark plugs.
I've purchased TWO 2023 KTM 250 XC bikes and they BOTH foul the stock plug BR8ES every 2.5 hours on the dot. Dealer just updated the power performance software and told me to run a hotter plug BR7ES in 'em. Let's see how it goes from here ....
Today Jarvis mechanic (factory Husqvarna) has made a statement on uk forum that they (ktm and husky) are using the br7es from beginning on 18, 19 models. So Slavens was not very wrong.
Please could you clarify further. Are you saying the race teams used BR7ES on the 18 & 19 bikes? The race teams probably weren’t using the stock maps I’m guessing. Regarding stock 18 & 19 bikes, I’ve never heard of any being delivered with a BR7ES plugs, and the Owners Manual states to use a ZGR7GI. Slavens in the video said that this extended reach plug is “a ticking time bomb”, but the only plug failure I’ve ever heard of was in the bike he showed in the video which had been modified. My 2019 250 TPI I ran with the stock ZGR7GI plug for 80H with the same plug and it looked great. The 2020/21 TPIs come standard with a BR7ES plug and that’s what I’m using in my 21 300 TPI.
@@TokyoOffroad not delivered, but i think they change the plug on every raceday. Don't know what mods they have, but Damo is the best factory mechanic from ktmgroup, and very reliable regarding bike info he gives.
how could the ignition get retarded by just change the spark plug?
always thought ignition is set at the timing of the spark.
字幕欲しいw
確かにw
禿げしく同意！パート1では品番BRでパート2ではBPR…どっち？ってなったw少しわかる人に聞いたらBPRを使い続けるみたいな事言ってるらしいですよ。
I'm a subscriber under a different name. I'm on my phone now. I love your channel. I think your calculation is off. I think your calculation is off with the milliseconds time and also is confused on meters per second and milliseconds. This is making my brain hurt.
More info here:
facebook.com/groups/112538542715599/permalink/272788650023920/?comment_id=273019806667471&reply_comment_id=273803743255744&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%2314%22%7D
Hey guys. Major fatty is wrong about this changing the ignition timing. Thats based on piston position, that is the constant. Tdc is always Tdc.shorter spark plug does not change tdc position. Spark occurs at same time. Only adverse change this makes is maybe a miniscule reduction in combustion Chamber volume from longer ceramic.
I did a very rough calculation to calculate the effect of spark position difference (also shown in the video). A 4mm difference (approximate difference between the extended reach plug and standard reach plug) is equivalent to about 0.24ms (gasoline engine with compression 12:1 the flame speed = 16.5m/s). If the engine is running at 1500rpm one rotation will take 40ms and 0.24ms is equivalent to 2degrees. I am aware that this is over simplified, but it does illustrate that due to the flame speed the position of the spark will have an effect on the timing. Yes, the spark will occur at the same time, but the time the flame front reaches the piston will be different.
Sorry Roger the effective timing will change as the spark position has been moved higher up in the combustion chamber. Please view the Tokyo Offroad explanation.
Omg. Stupid spell check.
I still dont understand why the amateurs are trying to tune theirs stock engines which are running good enough on the amateur level even good for pro-riders.Sorry but it makes me laugh.If anything the suspension know-how and tunning make me the big sense.