I don't care personally Christians will celebrate Christmas with christ in their hearts either way. And non Christians will celebrate it in other ways I don't care.
I never understood why this was such a big deal either. I have no problem knowing Christianity absorbed pagan symbolism into its traditions. Never persuaded me to disbelieve the resurrection or the divinity of Jesus from my standpoint. Much to do about nothing IMO
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I used to have a friend who would literally take me up to court over that… he was legalistic, and he would completely disagree and vehemently agree that it somehow did matter… I really don’t know.
@@joevaghn457 A bunch of alledged brothers in Christ just love to arrogantly put their nose in the air and gullably recite bogus scholarly deceptions just to feel superior in their legalism.
Did you say Christmas? I just pulled an all nighter reading “When Christmas Comes”. What a page turner. I can’t wait for the next book in this series. What’s next for Cameron Winter? If he’s as smart and tortured as he seems, he will become a Catholic convert.
The bible (I.e. God) totally condems incorporating pagan beliefs and practices into worshipping Him. He absolutely rejects such practice. "...depart from me, I never knew you...."
I brought my daughter to see Santa at the mall, and after she sat on his lap for photos "Santa" said what's a name I can put on these so you can pick them up an in hour? I said Klavan and he didn't ask how to spell it! So I called mall security and it turns out he was impostor and they arrested him.
Jeremiah 10:1-5 KJVS Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: [2] Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. [3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. [4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. [5] They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
@SMIFNOFSKI: you can celebrate christmas if you like .. I do think people make it more about the gifts , santa , elves and presents than they do Jesus ... not to mention lying to your kids about santa being real
@SMIFNOFSKI: sorry .... I don't want it to sound like I hate christmas or as if I am telling people not to celebrate it .... I like the verse I posted and it seems to be talking about something that sounds like christmas ... also I am not sure how to respond to your post .
Totally out of contexr and not talking about the same thing in the least. Learn the truth about Christmas and Christianity being original and right! ua-cam.com/video/UlEQW-NPqWI/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/UXawO-kSVRc/v-deo.html
You know what it probably was a pagan holiday. But we don't celebrate paganism. We're celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ and God knows what's in our hearts and God knows the intentions that we share with the world and that is love peace Goodwill toward men
God tells us not to worship him like they worship their gods. God doesn't care what's in our hearts when we are out there blatantly going against his living word.
@@mellissafield8137 again, so we can't sing to God or dance for Him or share meals with others in His name because some other religion has and still does that at some time? It's actually wonderful if Christians can come and change a day that was once used for evil into a day used to celebrate the one true God - if thats what even happened. To let the light of the gospel truly transform the world! Halleluigha!
@@TinkerBell-bt6vu that is not how God works. He doesn't want the same worship and festivals as the false gods. He tells us this. He also tells us how and when he wants us to celebrate him. They are called feasts in the Bible. If people can't take up their cross and follow him, do they really love him?
You needed to hear this because you can't admit that you celebrate Christmas for yourself and not for God. If you celebrated it for God, you would know it goes against the Bible
You can also gage the time of the high holy day when Zachariah the father of John the Baptist entered the Holy of Holys on Yom Kippur. That takes place in September or October. If Elizabeth was in her 6th minth when the angel came to Mary, March or April would be consistent and December would be a reasonable calculation.
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There's a 0.00001% chance you're anything close to anything due to the fact that you're taking various interpretations of a date that was perceived differently back then and also the story has been translated multiple times. You're probably talking about like mid April and will never know cause following specific dates and worshipping holidays is humanity already being dumb and missing the point.
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Absolutely wonderful! Great information!!! Have you ever seen Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas? It is along this idea of HOW we look at the symbols and traditions around us being more important to seeing truly God and Jesus in Christmas.
Worst movie I've ever seen. Don't ever mention it again. Learn the truth about Christmas and Christianity being original and right! ua-cam.com/video/UlEQW-NPqWI/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/UXawO-kSVRc/v-deo.html
That was an absolute horrible movie. If anything it pointed out how rediculous Christian claims are. Think for yourselves for once and go out and do your own research. I appreciate Klaven because at least he admits and addresses some scientific facts, but he still shifts others to fit his religious views. Christians will believe what they want to believe, no matter what… clearly.
I believe it was St. Thomas Aquinas who convinced the Church to stop destroying pagan works, saying they had no knowledge of the one true God and, therefore, their works must have been inspired by God. The “good dreams” of Lewis seem to be along the same lines as St. Thomas’ ideas.
When I was a kid and my BIRTHDAY fell on like a Thursday, it would not be usual for my grandparents to come over on the weekend to celebrate, supper, cake ,coffee. What's My point... it didnt matter they were not there on the 12th..but they cared to enough to come to celebrate it..... (when I was a kid ) if some of the trappings are pagan, AS LONG AS WE KNOW WHAT WE DO DOING IT FOR . Because God so loved the world..... that's what it is. Case closed.... any other argument is just to spoil and cast shadows.... SO.... MERRY CHRIST'S MASS.....
Loved this show! Lord Klavan, look up the Yule Goat for a fun Christmas story- a doctor friend from Denmark was quite happily surprised when my father asked him about.
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Klavan is not only a brilliant writer, I know that because he told me, he also is very funny. He cracks me up every time I look at him. Inside spite of this he is one of the most entertaining people on You Tube, and someone worth getting to know. Now that he lives here in Virginia, I hope to run into him one day.
This is a wonderful conversation Lord Klavan !🙏 I heard pastor Jon Courson from Searchlight church talk about this topic extensively and it’s fascinating.
It you want to celebrate Christmas do so but don’t defend it with things you don’t know. The council of Nicaea literally made Christianity what it is. And all the Christians have their root in Catholicism. Everything the Christian’s do predates it. Even Chinese people who are not Christians celebrate Christmas and capitalise on it.
I think that it's safe to say that Christmas, at least here in the U.S.A. doesn't attribute at all to Christian or even Pagan principles. It's become an American holiday with unique American cultural attributes. While the spirit of the holiday is about giving, celebration and family, that is identical to all of the similar winter celebrations. How the tree is represented today, Santa Claus, and just about every other thing that an American can call "Christmas" is unique to America.
While christmas may be unique in America, its roots can still be tracked to the pagan holiday Yule, which happens on the winter solstice. Many of the common christmas decorations Americans use today such as holly or pinecones are the same as pagan offerings used before Christmas existed. Santa Claus is a christianized version of the Holly King in pagan lore. The 25th itsself isn't the same day as Yule, but it is the same holiday. The 25th was a day that worked with Christian beliefs and was therefore used in place of the day of the winter solstice.
@@lisaleopold3852 look up the Holly King from pagan lore. Santa Claus is a christianized version of the Holly King, even if he is also inspired by St. Nicholas.
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@@julianavalles5846 winter solstice is Dec 21st. The solstice falls on the 21st and it is the shortest day of the year (or longest, in summer). But it's the 21st, always has been
I agree with Klavan - it really doesn't matter whether Christmas includes some traditions which were originally pagan. Also, celebrations and feasting at the winter solstice is way older than Saturnalia - archaeologists have discovered that there were such celebrations and feasting at the time the people who built Stonehenge were around (about 5000 years ago) - people gathered near Stonehenge from around Britain coming from as far away as Scotland.
You don't think using the traditions of men to worship God, which he specifically tells us not to do, is something God cares about? Do you not know that God is a jealous God? Do you know that choosing to worship your way and not the way he commands is putting yourself over God?
I look at it this way.If your are GOD,can you not present your agenda to multiple cultures in a way they can accept? I hav eknown MANY muslims who BEHAVE in a "Christian" way. I hav eknown many atheists who BEHAVE in a far more Christianway than many "Chirstians"
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True, we need to defend its Christian values otherwise seculars will take over it and Christmas will become just like Halloween or Black Friday or any other materialist holiday.
@@thejtolli It's been secularized, that's true. Paganism is specific polytheistic spiritual believes which diefy aspects of nature and mankind within nature or in relation to it.
@@Geronimo_Jehoshaphat You know the first half dozen cut and pastes saying the same thing gets pretty annoying. I will not hit your link regardless how many times you post it. With a screen name like yours, you cannot be taken seriously.
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It was always pagan. Should he come back today Jesus would tear down the tree and kick gifts out of places of worship, as he did the money changers from the temple. 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers.a For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?b Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” ‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing" "and I will take you in.’”
I just stood yesterday on a beach in Orange County, California and watched as a Full Moon set into the West just as the Sun rose in the East, I could just make out both in their full glory, awesome, and a moment worthy of celebration, as it is, and nothing more.
There is one very big problem with this and that your assertions are rebuked in scripture. Deuteronomy Chapter 12 speaks about not using Pagan shrines or temples to be converted to worship. This angers God. I think that there is another issue that we don't understand Pagan Gods. You refer to Pagan Gods as fictitious, and therefor they are explained as the imagination of humanity in anticipation of Christ. I do not think that Pagan Gods are figments of human imagination. I'm not suggesting that all Pagan stories should be considered scripture but Greek Titans are easily representing the Nephilim from preflood in the Bible. I also don't think it is coincidence that modern Christmas takes place on the recorded birth of the son of Nimrod. When you consider that these are demonic interpretations of these civilizations that were chosen by the civilizations of Babel, that these peoples were aware of Jewish history and chose to worship demon Gods, tying Christianity to Pagan rights transforms Christians by opening them up more than the other way around.
The tree isn't exactly pagan, nor are the gifts, nor is the date. The tree is German. The gifts are about God's gift of love to us (whether Athiest chose to acknowledge it or not.) The date is arbitrary, as we don't exactly know when Jesus was born. I guess the tree could be considered pagan if you want to stretch it, same for the date, if you twist the intentions of the people celebrating Saturnalia. Watch Pastor Mike Winger's video "In Defense of Christmas", it could clear up a few things.
Saint Nicholas is orthodox Christian. The light festival is pagan they just mixed tradition with religion otherwise the Europeans wouldn't become christeans
That tradition is also part of religion and is not separate from it. Halloween and Christmas have a deep spiritual meaning to various cultures. Christianity did not just adapt them because they were just a tradition they adapted them because they had meaning. The reason the moon is so important to religion is that it has a direct impact on nature but also human consciousness. Even dreams have some form of connection to the moon. Scientists will say that the moon's movement has an impact on DMT that impacts dreams, women's bodies and animal behaviors. Wolves do not just howl at the moon because it is pretty.
Propagated subversion by vendictive unbelievers resentful of Christianity's permeating culture. Learn the truth about Christmas and Christianity being original and right! ua-cam.com/video/UlEQW-NPqWI/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/UXawO-kSVRc/v-deo.html
This was the first time I've ever heard someone say that Christianity envelopes other religions to spread itself. Thank you, I appreciate hearing your thoughts on religion
Thanks for dispelling the Saturnalia belief as the date for Christmas . Until recently I thought December 25th was chosen so the song "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas", made sense .
There were 7 holidays Israel was commanded to observe. There are zero holidays christians were commanded to observe. I am not against christmas but I can't figure out for the life of me why Christians care about its defense. It is a cultural holiday, not a christian holiday, and only relates to christianity as a culture may or may not be Christian. If it was forgotten all together the church would not suffer or be hurt a single iota.
To an extent I agree with it, however I do think the church and witnessing as a whole would suffer, as Christmas is the best time for witnessing and inviting people to church, if Christmas were to be snapped out of existence, a lot of people would never pay the Gospel any mind.
@@TheoHawk316 there is no such thing as inviting people to church in the bible. In fact the idea that there would ever be an unbeliever amongst the gathering is completely foreign to scripture - also the idea that you "go to church" or hire a pastor, or sit in pews and listen to a speech every week - all ideas completely foreign and even contradictory to scripture.
@@AaronWalkerGypsyJazz I am not sure what you're basing this on. The life of Jesus was filled with gatherings -- eating together, praying together, teaching, discipleship... Jesus invited sinners and skeptics to the table to teach them. I mean, the specific traditions relating to building arrangements and furniture are certainly not specified, but contrary...? I'd need you to elaborate on why you think that.
@@DeusSalis No they celebrated the winter solstice feast which is what you celebrate today we just slapped a Jesus sticker on it & decided to make it his birthday
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Hebrews 8:5 tells of the things on earth are shadows of reality to come I think we can see it in our celebrations as well as building the tabernacle I put that before you humbly as I am no scholar but a student of scripture
I believe Christmas was “Christ’s Mass” as named by the Catholic Church which merged it with Yule, one of the old pagan germanic holiday traditions all ready ingrained in medieval European society? Am I correct in thinking this?
Christmas is ingrained in the human make up. It is part of human nature. That point of the year has a significance to humans as do May Day and June 21/22. People that try to claim that it is pagan so it does not belong to christians are just using a slight of hand. It is my belief that all religions are grasping at the same thing that is central to humans and to our existence.
I accept that Christianity will change us over time; but I submit that this is not the same as saying Christianity itself must change. By this I mean that the Word is basically fixed. There may be (almost certainly are) misunderstandings, because the Almighty was giving instructions to humans, with all their frailties; but the basic framework isn't going to change to suit evolving sociopolitical whimsy. It's not supposed to. It's like pretending the Constitution is a ''living, breathing document'; which is code for something that can be 'reinterpreted' as needed to fit the moment. The Constitution is there to protect people from their own political and legal whimsy; the Word is there to protect our souls from ourselves.
This is the problem when Protestants try to explain this without history and understanding of the calendar and liturgy of the Church. There is a reason for celebration during December. It has to do with counting off nine months from the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. Nine months representing the birth of Jesus to commemorate Christ’s birth. Christmas literally means Christ’s Mass. This is what Catholics call our worship:Holy Mass which commentates the Paschal Mystery of Christ’s passion, death and Resurrection
I'm Lutheran Christian and I believe we share more litugical traditions than people think. We do recognize the connection between Christmas, Easter and Pentecost with Jesus death and resurrection being the most important. During Christmas we celebrate that Jesus became human like us to just to die so that we could be saved.
Exactly they arbitrarily ascribed perfect symmetry to Jesus' perfect life by attributing his death date to be exactly 33 years from His immaculate conception (March 25th). And therefore a perfect 9 month pregnancy would be December 25th. Learn the truth about Christmas and Christianity being original and right! ua-cam.com/video/UlEQW-NPqWI/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/UXawO-kSVRc/v-deo.html
Secular and Pagan are not the same thing. Secular would be like July 4th. Pagan would be like celebrating another god, which I sincerely doubt anyone is doing on Christmas. Perhaps you should get it straight.
According to scripture, it was tax season. and the people were called back to the place of their birth for census. Forcing the people to travel during December would have been foolish and counterproductive to taking a census due to cold temperatures. Tax season was in April according to historical record. The messiah was born and died during passover. Christmas and all other Christian holidays were assimilated from Roman Paganism. The true Holy days were discarded despite scripture explicitly stating to observe them from generation to generation forever.
It is okay to be honest and say the church created christmas and that it has largely become pagan and or not related to the Bible. In the west, the UK in particular I see very little connection to the Bible or Christianity in it now. It should be about Jesus but as it was not instituted in the Bible to be celebrated and was created by the church, we should not be to legalistic about it.
I just don't care. I think it is how YOU personally celibate the Holiday. Because I'm cherishing my God & his gift of a savior in his own son. I'm certainly NOT celebrating any other god. It simply doesn't occur to me. It hasn't been a day of pagan celebration for over 1000 years! Just let it go & share the joy & love of the season!
Where is God in your own desire? Where is God in your tradition? God says it is an abomination to him for you to worship him as they worship their gods.
@@jewelssylva3738 if you think God ignores your use of traditions because nobody dies, you're wrong. He cares. It shows him exactly where your heart is. It is of this world 🤷🏻♀️
@@mellissafield8137True, God knows where my heart is, because he is God. You are not. In fact you should focus more on the Lord, less on judging fellow believers who you don't know. He loves you & would like you to spend more time in his Word & in his presence in intimate prayer time. I'm praying for you Mellissa.
You don’t have to celebrate Christmas with lights, a tree, Santa & presents. It is your choice if you celebrate Jesus birth, old pagan customs or both at the same time without linking the old pagan customs with Christmas. Christmas is a Christian holiday, Yule & Saturnalia worship are Pagan holidays. The church, while trying to convert pagans adopted some of their parties and decorations into their own to make conversion easier. I don’t see anything wrong with however you chose to worship.
I am a 100% Christian any day any time. But i think Christmas has it root from pagan celebration even birthday celebration....is not wrong to celebrate Christmas or birthday, but it root is not Christianity.
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100% yes, absolutely without question Christmas is based out of paganism. The problem is that Constantine started having believers and Jews alike combine their holidays with Roman ones, mixed a few other practices in with it and eventually it became a marketing scheme. It also used to be illegal in America because it was known to be pagan. Scripture tells us not to take the practices of other nations, how they worship their gods, to worship the Almighty in the same way. So, sorry, but Christmas is a no go. Besides, Scripture gives us a TON of festivals to observe that are both fun and commanded. Truth over tradition; Christians need to be doing Bible things in Bible ways and stop trying to get away with the bare minimum.
Frankly, Klaven my Ashkenazi brother... I think Christianity as a whole is just about as Pagan as it comes. I think that 'Physical Reductionism is the safest dialectic to use. Am I a Person of Faith? I certainly try to be. Do I hope, despite my skepticism that Ha'shem is real? Very much so! That being said, we can't build upon a complete abstract idea that has no objective structure, or mechanics or metrics to measure, etc. etc. Once you build a foundation for a house, you can build upon that foundation. You can't by contrast build a house by 'nailing pieces of wood to the air'. Stop perpetuating conspiracy silliness about 'The Left'. I'm Liberal... Very much a Centrist though as it pertains to Social Matters. I don't want to 'erase humanity and toss you into The Metaverse. Well... I mean... If you 'double cross me, then'... Joking aside... I know nothing about this proposed 'metaverse'. 'That's why people are resistant to The Truth of Christ... Because it really happenned'. That makes no sense. The reason why I don't trust The Canonical Gospels is because I've studied them. Mind you... I do believe that Yashua was a real historical figure and an important one at that. Have a wonderful Christmas, Mr. Klaven. Go easy on The Spiked Eggnog', my brother. May next year be AT LEAST somewhat less ridiculous than this one! Baruch Ha'shem!
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@@RoseSharon7777 Keep believing vendictively resentful secular liars pretending to be historical/theological scholars then. They want to propagate subversive demoralization to cripple Christianity's permeating upon culture.
@@Geronimo_Jehoshaphat lol. The bible clearly states it friend. Anyone who know about the mystery religions of Babylon know its a pagan holiday. The highest pagan holiday of the year. Jer 10.
@@RoseSharon7777 Better learn how to read better friend. The Bible states nothing of the sort. Context is king. That's completely added on nonsense with zero scholarly precedent.
That Jesus was born on or close to Dec 25th has been proven by scholars that actually know both the Bible and Roman history. This nonsense that the early Christians intentionally used a pagan holiday is just that, nonsense. If they did supplant a pagan celebration is was both accidental and a good thing. Possibly it is 8 Raindeer because Budweiser used 8 Clydsdales.
@@mellissafield8137 You are incorrect. Scripture alone is a dead end idea and nonsense. The records that the Greeks, Romans and the Jews must be taken into account. Jesus WAS born on or about when we celebrate Christmas.
@@greggcollins4215 you just disqualified yourself from the conversation. The Bible is God's living words. Anything outside of that is made up by man. Bible tells us when Jesus was born and it wasn't in December ✌️
Most Christian holidays originate from pagan holidays. The day is no less special or sacred due to its roots, origin doesn't matter when you look at what it's become. It isnt any less of a holiday regardless, but most of the traditions and dates and loosely based off of pagan holidays. Ostara and Easter are the same, Christmas and Yule, as well as Samhain and Halloween. These days were previously based off of solstices, and though they don't exist on the same day, it's very clear where the traditions originated. Ostara is a day celebrating life and rebirth, so the egg and bunnies were used as symbolism in that pagan holiday. For Yule, the day was about celebrating the change of seasons, where the Holly King battled the Oak King and won. Gifts were often given as during the winter food and supplies were scarce, as well as the Holly King normally being depicted wearing red, white, and green. Samhain is a day where the veil between the physical and spirit worlds are the thinnest, and carved pumpkins and gourds were used to ward off bad spirits. People also dressed up as monsters and spirits to remain unnoticed by such things. Though recorded paganism existed before recorded Christianity, I still think Christian holidays are just that. Christian, and still important and meaningful for people who follow that particular religion. Regardless of what you believe, there's few wrong ways to do it :)
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The Christmas tree, and the balls which hang upon it come from the Ancient Greek tragedy of Cybelle and Attis….. and yes, the ballballs you lovingly decorate your tree with every year represent testicles.
The modern day Christmas tree is from 16th century Germany which is as far from ancient Greece you can get. The balls used to be apples and the tree itself is often considered to represent the Paradise tree in the garden of Eden.
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Okay I didn't listen to the whole thing but I'm going to respond here. My understanding is that Peter was told to spread the word and the best way to spread the word was to appropriate pagan celebrations and incorporate them into the Christian tradition. This meant that things are manipulated to fit the known and expected schedules of pagan events and then take them over subtly over time. As a kid my father would hide a log on the property with a red bow on it and us kids had to go out and find it. Great fun and we only later learned its meaning. Growing up with the German heritage our vision of Christmas is certainly reflective of Northern European traditions. It's so sad to see how it's become watered down almost to meaninglessness
Nope that is not even close to being true. There are certain things that humans find in nature that are part of the human experience. The longest day of the year or All Hallows' Day. It is not just that Christians copied them and decided they were a great way to push religion. The Spring Equinox is something that resonates with humans. Christians did not copy burial rituals they were already part of being human. There is a reason why humans have an obsession with their ancestors even those that have no direct role in their life. It is not just that it is tradition but is something that humans feel and understand. Even the Nazi's were mostly atheists tried to peer into the human traditional experience.
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Truth: Jesus was not born on Dec. 25. Truth: The disciples did not celebrate his birth on Dec. 25, nor did they really celebrate his birth on any particular day. This 'early church' talk is a non-starter.
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Yes, the disciples not celebrating is true, and well we don't know the exact date. But that's some Jehovah's Witness crud to say celebrating the birth of our Lord and Savior is wrong.
@@TheoHawk316 The disciples celebrated Jesus being born every second of their lives all the way to their martydoms. That doesn't mean we can have a holiday for it as a Christian founded culture.
Lol I was almost interested in finishing the video until hw started pushing the Established Titles scam. You're not a real lord, in the same way that leople who buy stars dont actually own anything. 🐑
Christ was born in the Summer. Mithras the most popular competing religion in Rome was born on what we now call Christmas as a virgin birth. Soldiers followed Mithras. Women were a majority of early Christians. The Christ Mass is celebrated to Celebrate Christ's birth not the day of it. Putting it then was deliberate to help with the ascendancy of Christianity once the emperor made it the state religion of Rome. These are facts. So what? The Christ Mass remains awesome but this is why it's less relevant to the Catholic Church than Easter.
The Romans did not create those religions. They were something that came to them and also had meaning to those in northern Europe, Asia and North Africa.
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Was Santa Claus there when Jesus was born? I think not. Neither was the Easter bunny. They came later when a Pope ate some funny mushrooms by mistake and recounted his visions to an amazed group of priests. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Christmas is a holiday with Pagan origins but that’s okay. However, the fact that the story of the dying saving man god theme being used over and over says to me that it is more likely borrowed and attributed to Jesus. At the end of the day Christianity is an improved form of Paganism.
No. What happened to Jesus was so powerful that it resonated across 101 generations since Jesus. We in the modern world have taken the resurrection of Jesus to be a physical body resurrection but many believe it may have had some sort of spiritual or conscious. Something happened in the period that caused humans to change direction.
@@bighands69 you can say the exact same thing about Mohammed. There are almost as many Muslims than there are Christians. Also, Jesus’s message reaching the Greco Roman world was very powerful. Plus, the Roman Empire adopting the Christianity as the official religion of the Empire had a lot to do with it. Just because Christianity has teachings that have a metaphysical reality behind it, doesn’t make it literally true. Just like the Bible being wide doesn’t mean you have to believe in the talking snake. Anyways, I agree with Ben Shapiro on this one.
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@@Geronimo_Jehoshaphat I don’t think there is anything wrong with Pagan origins. If they morphed a Pagan ritual into something more godly it is a good thing. The same thing is true with the Old Testament. The sacrifices at the temple were Pagan too. However, they were repurposed to worship god.
@@amielcohen That's the thing though. All this pagan roots and tranmuted mythologies stuff being spouted are concocted deceptions from vendictively resentful unbelievers desperate to demoralize Christianity's permeation upon culture with the insidious ingenuity propagated through their bogus scholarly subversion.
Ugh, my Jewish grand-parents would not allow a tree, not because it represented Jesus, but GERMANY. It's pagan, Northern European, since the Southern Hemisphere is enjoying summer in December. Drew is getting more deluded as time goes by. Why?
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Ironically you're not far from the truth. In one way you could say Christianity is a sequel to Judaism with the main difference being Christians recognizing Jesus as Messiah while Jews do not. Christianity is also the simpliest religion because the only way to salvation is by faith and not by your own deeds. That makes it easy even for small kids to believe. In Luke 18 Jesus says whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall not enter therein.
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I don't care personally Christians will celebrate Christmas with christ in their hearts either way. And non Christians will celebrate it in other ways I don't care.
I never understood why this was such a big deal either. I have no problem knowing Christianity absorbed pagan symbolism into its traditions. Never persuaded me to disbelieve the resurrection or the divinity of Jesus from my standpoint. Much to do about nothing IMO
exactly. to me these are not even conflicts. it just always been obvious that both can be true and that doesnt diminish its roots.
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I used to have a friend who would literally take me up to court over that… he was legalistic, and he would completely disagree and vehemently agree that it somehow did matter… I really don’t know.
@@joevaghn457
A bunch of alledged brothers in Christ just love to arrogantly put their nose in the air and gullably recite bogus scholarly deceptions just to feel superior in their legalism.
Geronimo Jehoshaphat it’s also not a new debate either. The Pagan vs Jewish influence on the church goes all the way back to at least Saint Augustine.
Did you say Christmas? I just pulled an all nighter reading “When Christmas Comes”. What a page turner. I can’t wait for the next book in this series. What’s next for Cameron Winter? If he’s as smart and tortured as he seems, he will become a Catholic convert.
The bible (I.e. God) totally condems incorporating pagan beliefs and practices into worshipping Him. He absolutely rejects such practice. "...depart from me, I never knew you...."
I brought my daughter to see Santa at the mall, and after she sat on his lap for photos "Santa" said what's a name I can put on these so you can pick them up an in hour? I said Klavan and he didn't ask how to spell it! So I called mall security and it turns out he was impostor and they arrested him.
Impostor Santas are an epidemic these days. Instruct your children to tug the beard! It may save lives!
Jeremiah 10:1-5 KJVS
Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: [2] Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. [3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. [4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. [5] They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
@SMIFNOFSKI: you can celebrate christmas if you like .. I do think people make it more about the gifts , santa , elves and presents than they do Jesus ... not to mention lying to your kids about santa being real
@SMIFNOFSKI: sorry .... I don't want it to sound like I hate christmas or as if I am telling people not to celebrate it ....
I like the verse I posted and it seems to be talking about something that sounds like christmas ...
also I am not sure how to respond to your post .
Totally out of contexr and not talking about the same thing in the least.
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@@ashwilliams5843 You are correct. Jer 10 is talking about the pagan Holiday that Christians today celebrate as Christ-mas.
You know what it probably was a pagan holiday. But we don't celebrate paganism. We're celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ and God knows what's in our hearts and God knows the intentions that we share with the world and that is love peace Goodwill toward men
God tells us not to worship him like they worship their gods.
God doesn't care what's in our hearts when we are out there blatantly going against his living word.
@@mellissafield8137 again, so we can't sing to God or dance for Him or share meals with others in His name because some other religion has and still does that at some time?
It's actually wonderful if Christians can come and change a day that was once used for evil into a day used to celebrate the one true God - if thats what even happened. To let the light of the gospel truly transform the world! Halleluigha!
@@TinkerBell-bt6vu that is not how God works.
He doesn't want the same worship and festivals as the false gods.
He tells us this.
He also tells us how and when he wants us to celebrate him.
They are called feasts in the Bible.
If people can't take up their cross and follow him, do they really love him?
Celebrate Yeshua HaMashiach's life and death here on earth every day instead of once a year.
Thaaank you I needed to hear this! Merry Christmas 🎁🎄
You needed to hear this because you can't admit that you celebrate Christmas for yourself and not for God.
If you celebrated it for God, you would know it goes against the Bible
You can also gage the time of the high holy day when Zachariah the father of John the Baptist entered the Holy of Holys on Yom Kippur. That takes place in September or October. If Elizabeth was in her 6th minth when the angel came to Mary, March or April would be consistent and December would be a reasonable calculation.
By the Julian or Gregorian Calendar, but then you also assert the Hebrew calendar, how confusing!
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Correct
There's a 0.00001% chance you're anything close to anything due to the fact that you're taking various interpretations of a date that was perceived differently back then and also the story has been translated multiple times.
You're probably talking about like mid April and will never know cause following specific dates and worshipping holidays is humanity already being dumb and missing the point.
I want to hear Jordan Peterson answer this question: "It depends on what you mean by 'Pagan Holiday'".
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And he'd also probably say "it depends what you mean by "mean"."
Drew….you have such a positive and uplifting insight to things. Love your writing and perspective
People hate christianity bc of sin and hell. Like rebellious teenagers, people don't want to be told it is bad to be hedonist.
Well said. Merry Christmas!
Absolutely wonderful! Great information!!! Have you ever seen Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas? It is along this idea of HOW we look at the symbols and traditions around us being more important to seeing truly God and Jesus in Christmas.
Worst movie I've ever seen. Don't ever mention it again.
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That was an absolute horrible movie. If anything it pointed out how rediculous Christian claims are. Think for yourselves for once and go out and do your own research. I appreciate Klaven because at least he admits and addresses some scientific facts, but he still shifts others to fit his religious views. Christians will believe what they want to believe, no matter what… clearly.
@@Dume_Guy
That dreck doesn't represent any serious Christian point of view.
@@Dume_Guy "Christians will believe what they want to believe, no matter what...clearly". Atheists and agnostics will do the same...clearly.
@@Dume_Guy What a silly comment. All people will believe what they want to believe.
I believe it was St. Thomas Aquinas who convinced the Church to stop destroying pagan works, saying they had no knowledge of the one true God and, therefore, their works must have been inspired by God.
The “good dreams” of Lewis seem to be along the same lines as St. Thomas’ ideas.
When I was a kid and my BIRTHDAY fell on like a Thursday, it would not be usual for my grandparents to come over on the weekend to celebrate, supper, cake ,coffee. What's My point... it didnt matter they were not there on the 12th..but they cared to enough to come to celebrate it..... (when I was a kid ) if some of the trappings are pagan, AS LONG AS WE KNOW WHAT WE DO DOING IT FOR . Because God so loved the world..... that's what it is. Case closed.... any other argument is just to spoil and cast shadows.... SO.... MERRY CHRIST'S MASS.....
Loved this show! Lord Klavan, look up the Yule Goat for a fun Christmas story- a doctor friend from Denmark was quite happily surprised when my father asked him about.
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Klavan is not only a brilliant writer, I know that because he told me, he also is very funny. He cracks me up every time I look at him. Inside spite of this he is one of the most entertaining people on You Tube, and someone worth getting to know. Now that he lives here in Virginia, I hope to run into him one day.
This is a wonderful conversation Lord Klavan !🙏 I heard pastor Jon Courson from Searchlight church talk about this topic extensively and it’s fascinating.
It you want to celebrate Christmas do so but don’t defend it with things you don’t know. The council of Nicaea literally made Christianity what it is. And all the Christians have their root in Catholicism. Everything the Christian’s do predates it. Even Chinese people who are not Christians celebrate Christmas and capitalise on it.
I think that it's safe to say that Christmas, at least here in the U.S.A. doesn't attribute at all to Christian or even Pagan principles. It's become an American holiday with unique American cultural attributes. While the spirit of the holiday is about giving, celebration and family, that is identical to all of the similar winter celebrations. How the tree is represented today, Santa Claus, and just about every other thing that an American can call "Christmas" is unique to America.
Santa Claus comes from St Nicholas a saint in the Catholic Church. Commercialization took it over and it has become what it is now
While christmas may be unique in America, its roots can still be tracked to the pagan holiday Yule, which happens on the winter solstice. Many of the common christmas decorations Americans use today such as holly or pinecones are the same as pagan offerings used before Christmas existed. Santa Claus is a christianized version of the Holly King in pagan lore. The 25th itsself isn't the same day as Yule, but it is the same holiday. The 25th was a day that worked with Christian beliefs and was therefore used in place of the day of the winter solstice.
@@lisaleopold3852 look up the Holly King from pagan lore. Santa Claus is a christianized version of the Holly King, even if he is also inspired by St. Nicholas.
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@@julianavalles5846 winter solstice is Dec 21st. The solstice falls on the 21st and it is the shortest day of the year (or longest, in summer). But it's the 21st, always has been
I agree with Klavan - it really doesn't matter whether Christmas includes some traditions which were originally pagan. Also, celebrations and feasting at the winter solstice is way older than Saturnalia - archaeologists have discovered that there were such celebrations and feasting at the time the people who built Stonehenge were around (about 5000 years ago) - people gathered near Stonehenge from around Britain coming from as far away as Scotland.
You don't think using the traditions of men to worship God, which he specifically tells us not to do, is something God cares about?
Do you not know that God is a jealous God?
Do you know that choosing to worship your way and not the way he commands is putting yourself over God?
@@mellissafield8137 Mellisa, I don't believe there is a god, so I don't have any concerns.
@@stumccabe so then your opinion on what people who believe in God should do or not do is irrelevant.
Thanks for clarifying
Pastor Mike Winger did a video called, "In defense of Christmas" and I recommend everyone who thinks that it is pagan check it out.
By faith we believe, by the Grace of God. If you can ‘prove’ God then you don’t need faith.
I look at it this way.If your are GOD,can you not present your agenda to multiple cultures in a way they can accept? I hav eknown MANY muslims who BEHAVE in a "Christian" way. I hav eknown many atheists who BEHAVE in a far more Christianway than many "Chirstians"
I am much more concerned about it becoming much more of a secular holiday then if it surmounted a pagan holiday.
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True, we need to defend its Christian values otherwise seculars will take over it and Christmas will become just like Halloween or Black Friday or any other materialist holiday.
What’s the difference between secular and pagan? Is it not the same. It’s far too late - it already is secular.
@@thejtolli
It's been secularized, that's true.
Paganism is specific polytheistic spiritual believes which diefy aspects of nature and mankind within nature or in relation to it.
@@Geronimo_Jehoshaphat You know the first half dozen cut and pastes saying the same thing gets pretty annoying. I will not hit your link regardless how many times you post it. With a screen name like yours, you cannot be taken seriously.
I don't agree w/ all of it, but it definitely gave me some things to think about. Interesting take.
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It was always pagan. Should he come back today Jesus would tear down the tree and kick gifts out of places of worship, as he did the money changers from the temple.
2 Corinthians 6:14-17
Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers.a For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?b Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” ‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing" "and I will take you in.’”
"That there are lots of wrong answers does not mean there is no right answer."- correct.
I just stood yesterday on a beach in Orange County, California and watched as a Full Moon set into the West just as the Sun rose in the East, I could just make out both in their full glory, awesome, and a moment worthy of celebration, as it is, and nothing more.
You're dang right it was, and we took it over! And if people keep complaining, we'll take Toyotathon next.
There is one very big problem with this and that your assertions are rebuked in scripture. Deuteronomy Chapter 12 speaks about not using Pagan shrines or temples to be converted to worship. This angers God. I think that there is another issue that we don't understand Pagan Gods. You refer to Pagan Gods as fictitious, and therefor they are explained as the imagination of humanity in anticipation of Christ. I do not think that Pagan Gods are figments of human imagination. I'm not suggesting that all Pagan stories should be considered scripture but Greek Titans are easily representing the Nephilim from preflood in the Bible. I also don't think it is coincidence that modern Christmas takes place on the recorded birth of the son of Nimrod. When you consider that these are demonic interpretations of these civilizations that were chosen by the civilizations of Babel, that these peoples were aware of Jewish history and chose to worship demon Gods, tying Christianity to Pagan rights transforms Christians by opening them up more than the other way around.
The tree isn't exactly pagan, nor are the gifts, nor is the date.
The tree is German.
The gifts are about God's gift of love to us (whether Athiest chose to acknowledge it or not.)
The date is arbitrary, as we don't exactly know when Jesus was born.
I guess the tree could be considered pagan if you want to stretch it, same for the date, if you twist the intentions of the people celebrating Saturnalia.
Watch Pastor Mike Winger's video "In Defense of Christmas", it could clear up a few things.
@@TheoHawk316 it is pagan.
Jeremiah 10
Nuff said.
Saint Nicholas is orthodox Christian. The light festival is pagan they just mixed tradition with religion otherwise the Europeans wouldn't become christeans
That tradition is also part of religion and is not separate from it. Halloween and Christmas have a deep spiritual meaning to various cultures.
Christianity did not just adapt them because they were just a tradition they adapted them because they had meaning. The reason the moon is so important to religion is that it has a direct impact on nature but also human consciousness. Even dreams have some form of connection to the moon.
Scientists will say that the moon's movement has an impact on DMT that impacts dreams, women's bodies and animal behaviors. Wolves do not just howl at the moon because it is pretty.
@@bighands69 you are correct! Tradition & Religion is beautiful!
Propagated subversion by vendictive unbelievers resentful of Christianity's permeating culture.
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This was the first time I've ever heard someone say that Christianity envelopes other religions to spread itself. Thank you, I appreciate hearing your thoughts on religion
Thanks for dispelling the Saturnalia belief as the date for Christmas . Until recently I thought December 25th was chosen so the song "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas", made sense .
Come to Klavan for the milk toast controlled op take. Works every time
There were 7 holidays Israel was commanded to observe. There are zero holidays christians were commanded to observe. I am not against christmas but I can't figure out for the life of me why Christians care about its defense. It is a cultural holiday, not a christian holiday, and only relates to christianity as a culture may or may not be Christian. If it was forgotten all together the church would not suffer or be hurt a single iota.
James thought differently.
@@nuqwestr could you be more vague?
To an extent I agree with it, however I do think the church and witnessing as a whole would suffer, as Christmas is the best time for witnessing and inviting people to church, if Christmas were to be snapped out of existence, a lot of people would never pay the Gospel any mind.
@@TheoHawk316 there is no such thing as inviting people to church in the bible. In fact the idea that there would ever be an unbeliever amongst the gathering is completely foreign to scripture - also the idea that you "go to church" or hire a pastor, or sit in pews and listen to a speech every week - all ideas completely foreign and even contradictory to scripture.
@@AaronWalkerGypsyJazz I am not sure what you're basing this on. The life of Jesus was filled with gatherings -- eating together, praying together, teaching, discipleship... Jesus invited sinners and skeptics to the table to teach them.
I mean, the specific traditions relating to building arrangements and furniture are certainly not specified, but contrary...? I'd need you to elaborate on why you think that.
Originally? I don't think so, but now it's all about materialism.
Originally it was pagan then it was adopted by Christians
@@Mindmartyr Yes, the Pagans definitely celebrated Christ. Lol.
@@DeusSalis No they celebrated the winter solstice feast which is what you celebrate today we just slapped a Jesus sticker on it & decided to make it his birthday
@@Mindmartyr if you're alluding to the Romans that's just not true.
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Hebrews 8:5 tells of the things on earth are shadows of reality to come
I think we can see it in our celebrations as well as building the tabernacle
I put that before you humbly as I am no scholar but a student of scripture
My drawing that I posted today is wearing the exact outfit Klavan is in this video 😂
The god and pagan arguments remind me of Michael Knowles argument that atheists actually believe in God. Sweet baby gang
I believe Christmas was “Christ’s Mass” as named by the Catholic Church which merged it with Yule, one of the old pagan germanic holiday traditions all ready ingrained in medieval European society? Am I correct in thinking this?
Christmas is ingrained in the human make up. It is part of human nature. That point of the year has a significance to humans as do May Day and June 21/22.
People that try to claim that it is pagan so it does not belong to christians are just using a slight of hand.
It is my belief that all religions are grasping at the same thing that is central to humans and to our existence.
You are correct. It goes back to Babylon and noted in Jer 10.
Yes.
Saying it isn't pagan in origin is a LIE.
Yes, it was, the end.
Happy Holidays! Or as it started Happy Holy Day!
Thank you.
Another way of saying it:. Jesus was the priest (via Melchizedek) who could touch the unclean and make it clean while remaining clean himself.
🕯💡❣Simple thoughts tks
GREAT VIDEO !!
14:10 ah, yes, the key line that people playing gotcha games with Christians always omit.
I accept that Christianity will change us over time; but I submit that this is not the same as saying Christianity itself must change. By this I mean that the Word is basically fixed. There may be (almost certainly are) misunderstandings, because the Almighty was giving instructions to humans, with all their frailties; but the basic framework isn't going to change to suit evolving sociopolitical whimsy. It's not supposed to. It's like pretending the Constitution is a ''living, breathing document'; which is code for something that can be 'reinterpreted' as needed to fit the moment. The Constitution is there to protect people from their own political and legal whimsy; the Word is there to protect our souls from ourselves.
Zeitgeist? The video documenting the origins of jesus
Okay I think I got it . Thanks 😃
Rationalization on steroids.
This is the problem when Protestants try to explain this without history and understanding of the calendar and liturgy of the Church. There is a reason for celebration during December. It has to do with counting off nine months from the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. Nine months representing the birth of Jesus to commemorate Christ’s birth. Christmas literally means Christ’s Mass. This is what Catholics call our worship:Holy Mass which commentates the Paschal Mystery of Christ’s passion, death and Resurrection
I'm Lutheran Christian and I believe we share more litugical traditions than people think. We do recognize the connection between Christmas, Easter and Pentecost with Jesus death and resurrection being the most important. During Christmas we celebrate that Jesus became human like us to just to die so that we could be saved.
Exactly they arbitrarily ascribed perfect symmetry to Jesus' perfect life by attributing his death date to be exactly 33 years from His immaculate conception (March 25th). And therefore a perfect 9 month pregnancy would be December 25th.
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It still is.
Get it straight, Christmas is pagan holiday, not was!
Secular and Pagan are not the same thing.
Secular would be like July 4th.
Pagan would be like celebrating another god, which I sincerely doubt anyone is doing on Christmas.
Perhaps you should get it straight.
@@TheoHawk316 As an atheist I take part in Christmas.
According to scripture, it was tax season. and the people were called back to the place of their birth for census. Forcing the people to travel during December would have been foolish and counterproductive to taking a census due to cold temperatures. Tax season was in April according to historical record. The messiah was born and died during passover. Christmas and all other Christian holidays were assimilated from Roman Paganism. The true Holy days were discarded despite scripture explicitly stating to observe them from generation to generation forever.
Perfect.
Yes
The antichrist and a cup of tea by tim cohen.
How would it feel to have a wife to observe the anniversary date (with you), but on the date of a previous marriage? Not the day you two got married.
Apologist Extraordinaire… Just listen to your arguments without bias…
It is okay to be honest and say the church created christmas and that it has largely become pagan and or not related to the Bible. In the west, the UK in particular I see very little connection to the Bible or Christianity in it now. It should be about Jesus but as it was not instituted in the Bible to be celebrated and was created by the church, we should not be to legalistic about it.
I don't see it as being important ether way.
I just don't care. I think it is how YOU personally celibate the Holiday. Because I'm cherishing my God & his gift of a savior in his own son. I'm certainly NOT celebrating any other god. It simply doesn't occur to me. It hasn't been a day of pagan celebration for over 1000 years! Just let it go & share the joy & love of the season!
Where is God in your own desire?
Where is God in your tradition?
God says it is an abomination to him for you to worship him as they worship their gods.
@@mellissafield8137 I'm not sacrificing my child to Bael. I'm celebrating my God's Earthly birth.
@@jewelssylva3738 according to which instructions from God to do so?
Where is it biblical to celebrate the birth of Jesus?
@@jewelssylva3738 if you think God ignores your use of traditions because nobody dies, you're wrong.
He cares.
It shows him exactly where your heart is.
It is of this world 🤷🏻♀️
@@mellissafield8137True, God knows where my heart is, because he is God. You are not. In fact you should focus more on the Lord, less on judging fellow believers who you don't know. He loves you & would like you to spend more time in his Word & in his presence in intimate prayer time. I'm praying for you Mellissa.
You don’t have to celebrate Christmas with lights, a tree, Santa & presents. It is your choice if you celebrate Jesus birth, old pagan customs or both at the same time without linking the old pagan customs with Christmas.
Christmas is a Christian holiday, Yule & Saturnalia worship are Pagan holidays. The church, while trying to convert pagans adopted some of their parties and decorations into their own to make conversion easier. I don’t see anything wrong with however you chose to worship.
I am a 100% Christian any day any time. But i think Christmas has it root from pagan celebration even birthday celebration....is not wrong to celebrate Christmas or birthday, but it root is not Christianity.
Nope.
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100% yes, absolutely without question Christmas is based out of paganism. The problem is that Constantine started having believers and Jews alike combine their holidays with Roman ones, mixed a few other practices in with it and eventually it became a marketing scheme. It also used to be illegal in America because it was known to be pagan. Scripture tells us not to take the practices of other nations, how they worship their gods, to worship the Almighty in the same way. So, sorry, but Christmas is a no go. Besides, Scripture gives us a TON of festivals to observe that are both fun and commanded. Truth over tradition; Christians need to be doing Bible things in Bible ways and stop trying to get away with the bare minimum.
Finally someone with sense. My wife and I are in the process of overriding all the pagan holidays with the feast days of the Lord
Another argument of who came first.
Which sadly validates the comment of “First”
Frankly, Klaven my Ashkenazi brother... I think Christianity as a whole is just about as Pagan as it comes.
I think that 'Physical Reductionism is the safest dialectic to use.
Am I a Person of Faith? I certainly try to be. Do I hope, despite my skepticism that Ha'shem is real? Very much so!
That being said, we can't build upon a complete abstract idea that has no objective structure, or mechanics or metrics to measure, etc. etc.
Once you build a foundation for a house, you can build upon that foundation.
You can't by contrast build a house by 'nailing pieces of wood to the air'.
Stop perpetuating conspiracy silliness about 'The Left'. I'm Liberal... Very much a Centrist though as it pertains to Social Matters.
I don't want to 'erase humanity and toss you into The Metaverse.
Well... I mean... If you 'double cross me, then'...
Joking aside... I know nothing about this proposed 'metaverse'.
'That's why people are resistant to The Truth of Christ... Because it really happenned'.
That makes no sense.
The reason why I don't trust The Canonical Gospels is because I've studied them.
Mind you... I do believe that Yashua was a real historical figure and an important one at that.
Have a wonderful Christmas, Mr. Klaven. Go easy on The Spiked Eggnog', my brother.
May next year be AT LEAST somewhat less ridiculous than this one!
Baruch Ha'shem!
check out Uralic, Finnic circumpolar shamanistic behavior and thought.
His brain is actually talking and not his mouth.
Christmas and Easter are pagan Holidays and not mentioned in the NT. Period.
Not period.
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@@Geronimo_Jehoshaphat Jer 10. Christmas is a pagan holiday hated by God.
@@RoseSharon7777
Keep believing vendictively resentful secular liars pretending to be historical/theological scholars then. They want to propagate subversive demoralization to cripple Christianity's permeating upon culture.
@@Geronimo_Jehoshaphat lol. The bible clearly states it friend. Anyone who know about the mystery religions of Babylon know its a pagan holiday. The highest pagan holiday of the year. Jer 10.
@@RoseSharon7777
Better learn how to read better friend. The Bible states nothing of the sort. Context is king.
That's completely added on nonsense with zero scholarly precedent.
Nice!
That Jesus was born on or close to Dec 25th has been proven by scholars that actually know both the Bible and Roman history. This nonsense that the early Christians intentionally used a pagan holiday is just that, nonsense. If they did supplant a pagan celebration is was both accidental and a good thing. Possibly it is 8 Raindeer because Budweiser used 8 Clydsdales.
Proven? Dec 25th is winter in Israel and shepherds would not be watching their flock by night. The flock is down in the village, sheltering.
It's proven by scripture that it was closer to mid to late September.
Quit listening to man and listen to God.
@@mellissafield8137 You are incorrect. Scripture alone is a dead end idea and nonsense. The records that the Greeks, Romans and the Jews must be taken into account. Jesus WAS born on or about when we celebrate Christmas.
@@greggcollins4215 you just disqualified yourself from the conversation.
The Bible is God's living words.
Anything outside of that is made up by man.
Bible tells us when Jesus was born and it wasn't in December ✌️
Most Christian holidays originate from pagan holidays. The day is no less special or sacred due to its roots, origin doesn't matter when you look at what it's become. It isnt any less of a holiday regardless, but most of the traditions and dates and loosely based off of pagan holidays. Ostara and Easter are the same, Christmas and Yule, as well as Samhain and Halloween. These days were previously based off of solstices, and though they don't exist on the same day, it's very clear where the traditions originated. Ostara is a day celebrating life and rebirth, so the egg and bunnies were used as symbolism in that pagan holiday. For Yule, the day was about celebrating the change of seasons, where the Holly King battled the Oak King and won. Gifts were often given as during the winter food and supplies were scarce, as well as the Holly King normally being depicted wearing red, white, and green. Samhain is a day where the veil between the physical and spirit worlds are the thinnest, and carved pumpkins and gourds were used to ward off bad spirits. People also dressed up as monsters and spirits to remain unnoticed by such things. Though recorded paganism existed before recorded Christianity, I still think Christian holidays are just that. Christian, and still important and meaningful for people who follow that particular religion. Regardless of what you believe, there's few wrong ways to do it :)
Nope.
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I love Klavan, but Established Titles is a total scam.
Yuletide baby
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Sept 11 / 3 BC
The Christmas tree, and the balls which hang upon it come from the Ancient Greek tragedy of Cybelle and Attis….. and yes, the ballballs you lovingly decorate your tree with every year represent testicles.
No, they are APPLES, and became glass balls when the APPLE harvest failed. You are incorrect.
The modern day Christmas tree is from 16th century Germany which is as far from ancient Greece you can get. The balls used to be apples and the tree itself is often considered to represent the Paradise tree in the garden of Eden.
Lies.
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Dang, I thought they were legal loophole booby trap weapons for when Burglars attempt to rob your house during the holidays
@@RobotacularRoBob
These people citing paganism actually know next to nothing about any of it. 😆
Okay I didn't listen to the whole thing but I'm going to respond here. My understanding is that Peter was told to spread the word and the best way to spread the word was to appropriate pagan celebrations and incorporate them into the Christian tradition. This meant that things are manipulated to fit the known and expected schedules of pagan events and then take them over subtly over time.
As a kid my father would hide a log on the property with a red bow on it and us kids had to go out and find it. Great fun and we only later learned its meaning.
Growing up with the German heritage our vision of Christmas is certainly reflective of Northern European traditions. It's so sad to see how it's become watered down almost to meaninglessness
You can't serve both. This thinking isn't aligned biblically. They were asked to go boldly
Nope that is not even close to being true.
There are certain things that humans find in nature that are part of the human experience. The longest day of the year or All Hallows' Day.
It is not just that Christians copied them and decided they were a great way to push religion. The Spring Equinox is something that resonates with humans. Christians did not copy burial rituals they were already part of being human.
There is a reason why humans have an obsession with their ancestors even those that have no direct role in their life.
It is not just that it is tradition but is something that humans feel and understand. Even the Nazi's were mostly atheists tried to peer into the human traditional experience.
Total myth.
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How did you break your nose Mr. Klavan?
Truth: Jesus was not born on Dec. 25. Truth: The disciples did not celebrate his birth on Dec. 25, nor did they really celebrate his birth on any particular day. This 'early church' talk is a non-starter.
I’ve always believed Jesus was born April 6th - most say it’s the day He was resurrected. Needless to say, I don’t celebrate Christmas.
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Yes, the disciples not celebrating is true, and well we don't know the exact date.
But that's some Jehovah's Witness crud to say celebrating the birth of our Lord and Savior is wrong.
@@TheoHawk316
The disciples celebrated Jesus being born every second of their lives all the way to their martydoms.
That doesn't mean we can have a holiday for it as a Christian founded culture.
Mike Jones at InspiringPhilosophy has thoroughly debunked the idea that Christmas has pagan origins.
100% Thank you!
The Bible debunks anyone saying it's not pagan.
Start with what someone has posted above. Jeremiah 10.....
@@mellissafield8137 Mike Jones has debunked that argument as well.
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@@rwleif he debunked the Bible?
Lol I was almost interested in finishing the video until hw started pushing the Established Titles scam.
You're not a real lord, in the same way that leople who buy stars dont actually own anything.
🐑
Christ was born in the Summer. Mithras the most popular competing religion in Rome was born on what we now call Christmas as a virgin birth. Soldiers followed Mithras. Women were a majority of early Christians. The Christ Mass is celebrated to Celebrate Christ's birth not the day of it. Putting it then was deliberate to help with the ascendancy of Christianity once the emperor made it the state religion of Rome. These are facts. So what? The Christ Mass remains awesome but this is why it's less relevant to the Catholic Church than Easter.
The Romans did not create those religions. They were something that came to them and also had meaning to those in northern Europe, Asia and North Africa.
Conceived in December, then, how appropriate to celebrate the conception and not the birth.
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Actually, Mithras was not born a virgin, I'd tell you how it supposedly happened, but erm well... it's not exactly PG-13 or under...
@@TheoHawk316 born of a virgin birth.
Was Santa Claus there when Jesus was born? I think not. Neither was the Easter bunny. They came later when a Pope ate some funny mushrooms by mistake and recounted his visions to an amazed group of priests. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
ACTUALLY...St Nicolas was a real life historical figure, a bishop who defended the deity of Christ, and promoted generality among his flock.
Im being censored i guess
Christmas is a holiday with Pagan origins but that’s okay. However, the fact that the story of the dying saving man god theme being used over and over says to me that it is more likely borrowed and attributed to Jesus. At the end of the day Christianity is an improved form of Paganism.
No. What happened to Jesus was so powerful that it resonated across 101 generations since Jesus.
We in the modern world have taken the resurrection of Jesus to be a physical body resurrection but many believe it may have had some sort of spiritual or conscious.
Something happened in the period that caused humans to change direction.
@@bighands69 you can say the exact same thing about Mohammed. There are almost as many Muslims than there are Christians. Also, Jesus’s message reaching the Greco Roman world was very powerful. Plus, the Roman Empire adopting the Christianity as the official religion of the Empire had a lot to do with it. Just because Christianity has teachings that have a metaphysical reality behind it, doesn’t make it literally true. Just like the Bible being wide doesn’t mean you have to believe in the talking snake. Anyways, I agree with Ben Shapiro on this one.
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@@Geronimo_Jehoshaphat I don’t think there is anything wrong with Pagan origins. If they morphed a Pagan ritual into something more godly it is a good thing. The same thing is true with the Old Testament. The sacrifices at the temple were Pagan too. However, they were repurposed to worship god.
@@amielcohen
That's the thing though. All this pagan roots and tranmuted mythologies stuff being spouted are concocted deceptions from vendictively resentful unbelievers desperate to demoralize Christianity's permeation upon culture with the insidious ingenuity propagated through their bogus scholarly subversion.
Christmas isnt a Pagan Holiday it never was
Ugh, my Jewish grand-parents would not allow a tree, not because it represented Jesus, but GERMANY. It's pagan, Northern European, since the Southern Hemisphere is enjoying summer in December. Drew is getting more deluded as time goes by. Why?
Christmas trees originated in 16th century Germany from Adam and Eve plays that they would do on Christmas eve. No pagan origins to it at all.
@@rwleif Fair point, unless you are a Jew. That's why the "balls" were first Apples until the apple harvest failed and glass balls were first blown.
They were wrong.
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Yule versus Christmas
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All of Christianity is just ripped off from earlier religions and simplified for little children. So yes.
Ironically you're not far from the truth. In one way you could say Christianity is a sequel to Judaism with the main difference being Christians recognizing Jesus as Messiah while Jews do not. Christianity is also the simpliest religion because the only way to salvation is by faith and not by your own deeds. That makes it easy even for small kids to believe. In Luke 18 Jesus says whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall not enter therein.
Dead wrong.
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