Great rundown! Hi, I'm Kerry and I'm an alcoholic. Switched to alcohol years ago and I doubt I'll go back to a canister. Someone above mentioned about how quiet alcohol stoves are over canister, and I'd have to say that's probably my favorite part. Have you looked into the Caldera Cone system? They're very efficient and with the Kojin Stove, there's no need to measure. Fill the non-spillable stove to the top, light it and once the water boils, just blow it out and put the cap on, saving the remaining fuel for later. It's pretty cool. Great video!
I know the Caldera Cone but have never used it or seen it in person. It does look like a very efficient system. I must like the lack of noise from stoves, too, because my two favorite stoves for ultralight backpacking are alcohol and esbit. Just with most places around here, it's kind of blurring the lines on if you're supposed to use a non-traditional canister stove or not. It seems more people are moving to canisters. They're just easy. And I do like using them also. But there are just some things about alcohol stoves (or esbit) that make them nicer in the backcountry.
I was really surprised how fast this setup boiled water. But it is a bit more to fiddle with. Canisters are just so easy. So I hear you on needing something quick!
Well a lot of places out your way require a canister stove. So I'll give you that. Canister stoves are super easy. I really like them. But the weight penalty for the canister itself is fairly steep compared to a plastic bottle for alcohol or an esbit tab that doesn't have any container.
Another thing to consider is how likely you would be to be watching the canister fuel closely enough to stop the stove the second the water comes to a boil. With alcohol you put a set amount of fuel in and it just burns itself out when it’s done. So there is a probably going to be a significant fudge-factor (especially when getting down to the gram of weight), unless you’re watching the pot on the canister stove like a hawk and have good reflexes.
Great analysis thank you! I switched to alcohol stoves a few years back and haven't found any reason to go back. Can't stand the noise of cannister stoves first thing in an otherwise peaceful morning tbh. My set up for the last couple of years is the Trail Designs Sidewinder Caldera Cone with their Kojin stove. Super ultralight, it all nests in my 600ml pot and its consistently a half ounce of fuel to boil 2 cups of water. And though i haven't timed it in awhile I'm quite sure its not more than 3 minutes. Highly recommend the system. It's the one part of my load out i don't think I'll ever change.
Overall the analysis is pretty good. Another major benefit of alcohol is that you can measure exactly how much fuel you will be using on your trip and only take that amount. To measure the fuel I use a graduated syringe to fill my fuel bottle and a medicine measuring cup (like you get with cold medicine syrup) to measure the fuel into the stove. It is possible to do this with a canister refuel adapter, but it requires more effort and the adapter.
It's funny this came out today. I have had my stoves out deciding which to take on a bicycle tour I'm starting next week. I have 2 cups of coffee every morning and maybe oatmeal, and I almost always cook my supper wherever I camp so I go through a small gas canister pretty quick. I tend to like my DIY soda can stove because I use HEAT in the yellow bottle and I can get that anywhere versus not always being able to find gas canisters on my long trips since I try to avoid large cities. I can also use denatured alcohol (most hardware stores) or 90% rubbing alcohol in a pinch (any small town Dollar General) although I prefer not to use either of those 2. Good analysis Cameron.
All good points. I'm excited to see what you've got coming for your tour. I know weight means something on a bike, but how important is having your gear be lightweight for bike touring compared to backpacking? Is a few ounces different on a bike a big deal or is that nothing?
@@CameronHall88 Oh yeah! There are ultralight bikepackers just like there are backpackers. There are a lot of similarities and a hiker/backpacker make good bikepackers. As a matter of fact, the Hiking Viking is becoming a big name in bikepacking circles as well as others. Touring weight is not much of a factor because it's more about comfort than speed and people expect to carry more weight. As a matter of fact, I will not be taking the Duplex or Golite bag. I'll be taking an almost 4lb rectangle bag and an almost 5lb tent with a wide/long pad. Pure comfort. Hahaha
@Tony Hyde sounds like it! I figured lightweight was a thing in bikepacking but wasn't sure if it mattered as much. I heard about the HikingViking biking (hahaha) now on the Backpacker Radio Podcast.
2:19 for the gram weenies counting at home Dutchwear Gear states that that stove (the gram weenie pro with the cold weather wrap) is 22.11 grams (which is actually 0.78 ounces). For the record a typical redbull homemade stove is under 8 grams.
What stove were you using before? I originally was using the Venom stove by Zelph and didn't have much success with it. But I think my pot was too narrow for the flame pattern. This Gram Weenie seems like a much better fit. I'm excited to get more experience with it.
Very cool. The chart helps a lot when deciding if you're saving weight over the days. I'm kind of paranoid with spillage so sacrificed weight by using a Trangia and fuel bottle. I just wish I could even use it. It's restricted in California.
Great video! I’ve been thinking about using my alcohol stove more actually. I don’t mind the increased boil times, and they are so peaceful and quiet vs. the jet engine sound of canister stoves heh-heh. What will you use for fuel? Heet? Everclear? Something else?
I have only ever used Heet. I actually got quite a bit of it a few years back that was on clearance. So I've got a years long supply of it. It seems to burn really hot. Honestly this stove boiled way faster than I figured it would. I remember boil times closer to 8 - 10 minutes on some stoves. I really don't see a lot of drawback on shorter trips.
Excellent Video! 5oz saving …thats a hard call for sure.. love the analyst though❤ thats always been my turn off cause of the fuel weight and burn efficiency .. you can get Soto WindMaster or Amicus and get even better efficiency . boils no matter the weather. I guess my fear would be the alcohol leaking all in my bag and fuel is gone. Same with the BRS 3000 UL stove the lack of efficiency isn’t worth 2oz of savings.
It's a pretty big savings for a shorter trip. I've never had any leak when I've used alcohol before. At least that I can remember. I do try to keep my alcohol stood up and not down in my pack. It's also pretty nice not having the noise of the canister stove (although that doesn't bother me as much as it does others). I'm looking forward to playing around with alcohol stoves when I can.
5:32 I can very easily get 1 cup of water to boil with 20 mL of alcohol. Alcohol has a density of 0.789 gram per mL. So the amount of fuel needed to boil one cup of water is 15.78 grams which is 0.557 ounces of fuel to boil one cup of water. So you can effectively halve the weight of the back-of-the-napkin calculation depicted here.
Great rundown!
Hi, I'm Kerry and I'm an alcoholic.
Switched to alcohol years ago and I doubt I'll go back to a canister. Someone above mentioned about how quiet alcohol stoves are over canister, and I'd have to say that's probably my favorite part.
Have you looked into the Caldera Cone system? They're very efficient and with the Kojin Stove, there's no need to measure. Fill the non-spillable stove to the top, light it and once the water boils, just blow it out and put the cap on, saving the remaining fuel for later. It's pretty cool.
Great video!
I know the Caldera Cone but have never used it or seen it in person. It does look like a very efficient system.
I must like the lack of noise from stoves, too, because my two favorite stoves for ultralight backpacking are alcohol and esbit. Just with most places around here, it's kind of blurring the lines on if you're supposed to use a non-traditional canister stove or not.
It seems more people are moving to canisters. They're just easy. And I do like using them also. But there are just some things about alcohol stoves (or esbit) that make them nicer in the backcountry.
Excellent presentation, that graph is savage… really putting things into perspective.
Thanks mate 👍🏻
Thanks, I appreciate it. Very low-tech graph. Haha. But I figure it'd help those of us who are more visual.
Great analysis!! Craig is a grumpy bear until he gets his coffee in the morning. We better stick with the faster option 😂!
I was really surprised how fast this setup boiled water. But it is a bit more to fiddle with. Canisters are just so easy. So I hear you on needing something quick!
So, you're telling me my pocket rocket is a luxury item on overnight trips?! 😂
Awesome breakdown. I appreciate the knowledge, amigo!
Well a lot of places out your way require a canister stove. So I'll give you that. Canister stoves are super easy. I really like them. But the weight penalty for the canister itself is fairly steep compared to a plastic bottle for alcohol or an esbit tab that doesn't have any container.
Another thing to consider is how likely you would be to be watching the canister fuel closely enough to stop the stove the second the water comes to a boil. With alcohol you put a set amount of fuel in and it just burns itself out when it’s done. So there is a probably going to be a significant fudge-factor (especially when getting down to the gram of weight), unless you’re watching the pot on the canister stove like a hawk and have good reflexes.
Great analysis thank you! I switched to alcohol stoves a few years back and haven't found any reason to go back. Can't stand the noise of cannister stoves first thing in an otherwise peaceful morning tbh. My set up for the last couple of years is the Trail Designs Sidewinder Caldera Cone with their Kojin stove. Super ultralight, it all nests in my 600ml pot and its consistently a half ounce of fuel to boil 2 cups of water. And though i haven't timed it in awhile I'm quite sure its not more than 3 minutes. Highly recommend the system. It's the one part of my load out i don't think I'll ever change.
Overall the analysis is pretty good. Another major benefit of alcohol is that you can measure exactly how much fuel you will be using on your trip and only take that amount. To measure the fuel I use a graduated syringe to fill my fuel bottle and a medicine measuring cup (like you get with cold medicine syrup) to measure the fuel into the stove. It is possible to do this with a canister refuel adapter, but it requires more effort and the adapter.
What a cute voice ❤
Good stuff, I'm an esbit guy but had to move to fuel since coming to Texas.
Haven't seen any posts in a while, hope all is well!
Nice comparision👍🏻
Thanks! I appreciate you watching.
It's funny this came out today. I have had my stoves out deciding which to take on a bicycle tour I'm starting next week. I have 2 cups of coffee every morning and maybe oatmeal, and I almost always cook my supper wherever I camp so I go through a small gas canister pretty quick. I tend to like my DIY soda can stove because I use HEAT in the yellow bottle and I can get that anywhere versus not always being able to find gas canisters on my long trips since I try to avoid large cities. I can also use denatured alcohol (most hardware stores) or 90% rubbing alcohol in a pinch (any small town Dollar General) although I prefer not to use either of those 2. Good analysis Cameron.
All good points. I'm excited to see what you've got coming for your tour.
I know weight means something on a bike, but how important is having your gear be lightweight for bike touring compared to backpacking? Is a few ounces different on a bike a big deal or is that nothing?
@@CameronHall88 Oh yeah! There are ultralight bikepackers just like there are backpackers. There are a lot of similarities and a hiker/backpacker make good bikepackers. As a matter of fact, the Hiking Viking is becoming a big name in bikepacking circles as well as others. Touring weight is not much of a factor because it's more about comfort than speed and people expect to carry more weight. As a matter of fact, I will not be taking the Duplex or Golite bag. I'll be taking an almost 4lb rectangle bag and an almost 5lb tent with a wide/long pad. Pure comfort. Hahaha
@Tony Hyde sounds like it! I figured lightweight was a thing in bikepacking but wasn't sure if it mattered as much. I heard about the HikingViking biking (hahaha) now on the Backpacker Radio Podcast.
2:19 for the gram weenies counting at home Dutchwear Gear states that that stove (the gram weenie pro with the cold weather wrap) is 22.11 grams (which is actually 0.78 ounces). For the record a typical redbull homemade stove is under 8 grams.
Excellent!
I need to get back to using alcohol. I got away from it due to the burn bans the last several years. Thanks for reminding me.
What stove were you using before?
I originally was using the Venom stove by Zelph and didn't have much success with it. But I think my pot was too narrow for the flame pattern. This Gram Weenie seems like a much better fit. I'm excited to get more experience with it.
@@CameronHall88 I have the old Decagon by Vargo. I’ve never had a problem with it. I like the specs on that Gram Weenie. I’ll probably order one.
Very cool. The chart helps a lot when deciding if you're saving weight over the days. I'm kind of paranoid with spillage so sacrificed weight by using a Trangia and fuel bottle. I just wish I could even use it. It's restricted in California.
Yeah, I understand that. There are lots of places around here that are canisters only as well.
Great video! I’ve been thinking about using my alcohol stove more actually. I don’t mind the increased boil times, and they are so peaceful and quiet vs. the jet engine sound of canister stoves heh-heh.
What will you use for fuel? Heet? Everclear? Something else?
I have only ever used Heet. I actually got quite a bit of it a few years back that was on clearance. So I've got a years long supply of it. It seems to burn really hot. Honestly this stove boiled way faster than I figured it would. I remember boil times closer to 8 - 10 minutes on some stoves. I really don't see a lot of drawback on shorter trips.
good info!
Thanks Martín. I appreciate you watching!
Excellent Video! 5oz saving …thats a hard call for sure.. love the analyst though❤ thats always been my turn off cause of the fuel weight and burn efficiency .. you can get Soto WindMaster or Amicus and get even better efficiency . boils no matter the weather.
I guess my fear would be the alcohol leaking all in my bag and fuel is gone. Same with the BRS 3000 UL stove the lack of efficiency isn’t worth 2oz of savings.
It's a pretty big savings for a shorter trip. I've never had any leak when I've used alcohol before. At least that I can remember. I do try to keep my alcohol stood up and not down in my pack. It's also pretty nice not having the noise of the canister stove (although that doesn't bother me as much as it does others). I'm looking forward to playing around with alcohol stoves when I can.
I must have 15 or more of the gram weenie pro laying around that I made myself
5:32 I can very easily get 1 cup of water to boil with 20 mL of alcohol. Alcohol has a density of 0.789 gram per mL. So the amount of fuel needed to boil one cup of water is 15.78 grams which is 0.557 ounces of fuel to boil one cup of water. So you can effectively halve the weight of the back-of-the-napkin calculation depicted here.
Sorry the graph wasn't up to standards. Thanks for watching and for the info.
@@CameronHall88 thanks for the response! I do like your analysis.