Given the hand they were dealt (actor leaving and covid) i think they did as well as they could. Mat in particular was difficult to get to his desired destination but i think we will see more of the real mat moving forward. I know readers are split, but i loved this season.
Huh? They literally showed him from Agar Valon to Carhien in like 2 secs and then to Falma in a Deus ex machina… this season was trash the first was a dumpster fire.
I'm another book reader who enjoys the show. S2E8 was the first time I could watch an episode, clock all the changes and think "what might have been if they stuck more directly to the books," but also simultaneously recognize that they were still putting on great television. The finale confirmed my feelings at the beginning of s2 - I felt like the book->show changes were much more strategic. With the finale, the show demonstrated they could land the plane. Kudos to them, and here's hoping for many more seasons 🎉
Great to hear you loved it :) I've been replaying the tootening in my mind for days-I love Mat in the books, but I think this version of Mat feels more like a real person, someone we all know and recognize. I wasn't all that interested in the Forsaken in the books, and they are so much more compelling as individuals in the show. Fares Fares's effortlessly emotional delivery of Old Tongue dialogue was wonderful. Lanfear's hints about her dysfunctional relationship with LTT was touching. Moghedien's reimagining feels positively inspired. Really looking forward to s3, which will (hopefully) feature one of the most iconic sequences in all of fantasy.
I'm so happy Daniel liked the overall arch and season 2 overall. Dan knew it from the beginning with less book baggage. As Daniel said, there is a reason why so many of us love this story so much and are rooting for this show to be successful, and while it's not a page-by-page adaptation, it's giving us so many of the same emotions and joy the books did. There were things during the season where, I admit, my reader hat got in the way, but I'm so happy in the end. I enjoyed it so much, and I hope we see the entire series adapted. I'm sure this will be the best fantasy show yet if we do.
I'm a big fan of the books and honestly I think both seasons were pretty good outside of a big stumble in S1 ep 8 and a misguided need for spectacle seemingly only with the two young female leads. They seem frightened to let the Main character be over powered and that's not a bad thing, but they keep having one or both of the girls do things they should not be capable of at this point of the story. There has been some lack of budget showing at times, and the worst budget of all screen time is a issue always but better in the second season. If you compare this and ROP the other amazon show its pretty clear which one they should be spending the cash and resources on. Right now this is a good show, they fix some of the little niggles that are not up to par and it will be something special, and if you have read the series you know that the coming material in the next few seasons is very good material.
Well Egwene felt the pain while she was torturing Renna. And had to play chicken with her too see if she would release her. Knowing she could die. But it payed off and she won.
Season 1 was a mixed bag. Season 2 was an improvement on every level and I enjoyed it from start to finish. Yes, it still has some silly moments from time to time, but they are not enough to ruin the show. If season 3 is an improvement over season 2, The Wheel of Time might become my favorite fantasy series.
This show is so great! One of my favorite shows out there. So glad your covering this show. Sure wish more non WOT UA-cam channels would cover this. Hopefully as the series goes on? And It looks like it will with being the number one best streaming views for September. That other channels will pick this up along the way.
I don't mind them changing things and doing a retelling but there were some things (internal inconsistencies) and plot lines with no pay offs that bugged the hell out of me. They set up this whole thing with Nyn and Elayne trying to figure out the adame...a yellow sister even dies in the process. Nyn and Eve figure out that the suldams can channel so the Adam can work on them. But in the end, Eg frees herself by breaking laws they had set up...how was she able to collar the suldam? That's harmful intent. It didn't make her darker, it was just a silly plot contrivance and wasted many previous episodes. And of course, we shouldn't ask why shadar logoth dagger suddenly turns things to powder now...except Rand, of course Loial in the previous season and a whole other people who should be dust too. I really enjoyed this season but I wish they wrapped it up with better writing and good pay offs.
The eggy freeing herself is the writing teams need for spectacle. Its a mistake imo, that should be something that she can not get out of by herself. To have her turn around after that and go toe to toe with the most powerful man in the world is laughable at best. I actually think its a good idea showing Rand to be not up to the level of his book counterpart, but when they are overpowering the girls it just does not make sense. If the showrunners are reading comments I hope they get why this is a mistake.
@@kennethleangabriel59 It's not about the tower law. It's the a'dame law established before. With that thing around her neck, she can't pick up anything to harm her sul'dam. She really shouldn't be able to do that. And all this "what is abstract vs bla harm" is just trying to justify bad writing. Intent to collar someone and kill them is harmful intent. She should not have even been able to touch that thing. Unless they are making her a Mary Sue who can break and bend all lore to suit the plot. And that's lazy writing.
it has nothing to do with the oaths, its the collar that the op is claiming should keep her from placing the collar on her Suldam, but personally I think that is actually possible. I do have issues with her being able to choke out her Suldam while wearing the collar though. She is supposed to feel that exponentially. Then after all that have a fight with the most powerful forsaken and hold her own? Nah that's two poor choices that do not pass the logic test. @@kennethleangabriel59
I'm not alone on the crying after Mat blew the horn! 😭 It was ugly. And then he said the saying and I just bawled. It was amazing. Yeah the fire dragon thing felt stretched, already like how Moiraine could channel that long and that formed but I guess coz she had months of keeping it in it might have felt like a new first time touching the one power for her but the dragon felt like it was too much.
I liked the Egwene ending. It appeared to me that she didn't find a way around the pain of the a'dam, but rather just TOOK the pain. It's a glimpse in to the iron will of the captive Amrlyn from The Gathering Storm, that I think lacked setup, in the books.
If I had to guess I would guess that Nynaeve being even more blocked than in the books is going to be important in season 3. My guess is Liandrin will attempt to turn her to the dark one by saying she can remove the block. It really seemed like they went out of their way to make sure her block was a horrible problem in this end of the season. As for Renna and Egwene the best ending would have been Egwene picking up a pitcher from somewhere and smashing Renna in the face with it.
I agree with the Ingtar arc needed to be used. The question of can a darkfriend be saved, or return to the light is an important question. While overall I enjoyed and was entertained by season 2, there are just too many spots where I have to tell myself "dont think too hard about it, just take it at face value" and honestly i struggle with any tv show/movie/books where I have to tell myself that. I want to think about things, I want to catch the clues and foreshadowing. In this tv show, you have to wonder if something is intentional or just a plot hole left due to writing. Is it really a clue of what is to come, or did they just screw up...again...
I couldn't get past the show ignoring all the collar lore they'd established before. Ignoring orders, channeling at will while still being collared, while her suld'am was still wearing the bracer, force-collaring Renna... This from the same show that had Egwene try and fail to grab a plain water pitcher in Ep6. Stuff like that just kicks me out of immersion really hard, and there were tons of those in the show. I'm glad for the show that a lot of people are obviously willing to look past such issues. I just can't.
I'm really frustrated with all this non-logical stuff they put on the show. What about Lan knowing more about channeling than Moiraine in ep. 07? And Rand who doesn't know how to channel until ep. 06, becomes stronger than Ishamael in ep. 07 and 08. The Falme part was SO MUCH better in the books.
@@phantiasmic Neither is a water jug. It's the _intent_ of the wielder that changes it all, as ep6 abundantly proved. Is your point that Egwene had no intention of doing Renna any harm while collaring her? 😳
@@bidossessi You can smash someone in the head with a pitcher, that little ring likely can't do much. Harm later is not the same as harm with it. She had no intent to harm Renna with the ring and in fact would not even know 100% it would even work until she did it. Not even remotely close to a pitcher smashing someone with. Well unless Egwene is John Wick and uses the a'dam like brass knuckles? Yeah... bit of a stretch.
@@JulioFrosi Lan did not know more than Moraine, no male channelers ever live long enough to do much at all. He just simply started thinking outside the box, and with all that Moraine had going on it's what he should have done. (And Lan has been with Moraine over 20 years, he would be a complete moron if he did not know a few things by then lol)
A bit weirded out to see 2 guys pontificating over how "murdering" a slaver from an invading army makes someone "darker." In the books Egwene left her collared so she would spent the rest of her centuries-long life as a slave, and you think that's LESS "dark"? I was disappointed because I thought killing her was too easy, but there wasn't really an opportunity to give her back to the Seanchan, and it did deprive the Seanchan of more weapons they could use to enslave more women.
It would have been better to do what the book did, just have her attack her and need to be held back by her friends, it shows so much better what this cost her.
I am beginning to prefer the show over the books. The show made the characters more complex and human. Sure, the protagonists, like Rand, seem badass in the early stages of the books, but the show properly portrayed them as normal young people who are afraid of their destiny. I guess Season 3 will explore them all accepting who they are supposed to be. House of the Dragon may seem cool but its potential was hindered by the reliance on time skips which hindered us from seeing the characters' progressions. When it came to Ishamael and Lanfear's portrayal, I really loved how there is a subtle inner conflict in them to hurt Rand because they really seemed to care and miss their best friend: Lews Therin Telamon.
Season 1 was terrible for many reasons, the bar was set so low there was only one way to go. Season 2 is better but still cannot escape the canon/lore breaking changes they made in season one. They broke it in season 1 and now its poor fan fiction a lot of the time. Wow, your statements at the start were ummm can't agree even slightly. Nobody is going to remember this compared to Game of Thrones.
Hopper flew! Mat a Hero of the horn! Does than mean no Snakes and foxes? Gaidal Cain was Uno...2 swords and nest to Birgette Rand Doey eyed at Elayne, "Who are you?"
About twenty years ago I was walking down the street one night with three mates, two of them women. As we were walking we spotted a used sanitary pad stuck to a wall about six foot off the ground. That sanitary pad was more entertaining than the Wheel Of Rafe's Ego.
The show is utter trash. I honestly dont know what to make of people who actually like the show. If they are sincere, it is a bit depressing honestly. Maybe standards have fallen so abysmally low this utter tripe is considered good. These two guys are two people whose opinons I can safely discard! 😅
@brianweekes1757 God, that's pathetic. Surely not! Imagine being so weak that you have to be toxicy positive, and all negative comments must be expunged! 😅
LOVED the finale and season 2 as a whole! I wish people weren’t sleeping on this show. It was so good!
Given the hand they were dealt (actor leaving and covid) i think they did as well as they could. Mat in particular was difficult to get to his desired destination but i think we will see more of the real mat moving forward. I know readers are split, but i loved this season.
Huh? They literally showed him from Agar Valon to Carhien in like 2 secs and then to Falma in a Deus ex machina… this season was trash the first was a dumpster fire.
I'm another book reader who enjoys the show. S2E8 was the first time I could watch an episode, clock all the changes and think "what might have been if they stuck more directly to the books," but also simultaneously recognize that they were still putting on great television. The finale confirmed my feelings at the beginning of s2 - I felt like the book->show changes were much more strategic. With the finale, the show demonstrated they could land the plane. Kudos to them, and here's hoping for many more seasons 🎉
I enjoyed it too, there was one 'huh'? moment, when they just rocked up with the horn but other than that, was engrossed.
They were planning on more sticking to the book until the original Mat left. The plan was for them to all travel to Falme together
@@michaelmiller378 yeh I read the same interview
Hopefully there will be no more curve balls thrown at the show
Great to hear you loved it :) I've been replaying the tootening in my mind for days-I love Mat in the books, but I think this version of Mat feels more like a real person, someone we all know and recognize. I wasn't all that interested in the Forsaken in the books, and they are so much more compelling as individuals in the show. Fares Fares's effortlessly emotional delivery of Old Tongue dialogue was wonderful. Lanfear's hints about her dysfunctional relationship with LTT was touching. Moghedien's reimagining feels positively inspired. Really looking forward to s3, which will (hopefully) feature one of the most iconic sequences in all of fantasy.
I'm so happy Daniel liked the overall arch and season 2 overall. Dan knew it from the beginning with less book baggage. As Daniel said, there is a reason why so many of us love this story so much and are rooting for this show to be successful, and while it's not a page-by-page adaptation, it's giving us so many of the same emotions and joy the books did. There were things during the season where, I admit, my reader hat got in the way, but I'm so happy in the end. I enjoyed it so much, and I hope we see the entire series adapted. I'm sure this will be the best fantasy show yet if we do.
Maybe a 'one page' adaption. That about covers the bits from the book.
I'm a big fan of the books and honestly I think both seasons were pretty good outside of a big stumble in S1 ep 8 and a misguided need for spectacle seemingly only with the two young female leads. They seem frightened to let the Main character be over powered and that's not a bad thing, but they keep having one or both of the girls do things they should not be capable of at this point of the story. There has been some lack of budget showing at times, and the worst budget of all screen time is a issue always but better in the second season. If you compare this and ROP the other amazon show its pretty clear which one they should be spending the cash and resources on. Right now this is a good show, they fix some of the little niggles that are not up to par and it will be something special, and if you have read the series you know that the coming material in the next few seasons is very good material.
Well Egwene felt the pain while she was torturing Renna. And had to play chicken with her too see if she would release her. Knowing she could die. But it payed off and she won.
Season 1 was a mixed bag. Season 2 was an improvement on every level and I enjoyed it from start to finish. Yes, it still has some silly moments from time to time, but they are not enough to ruin the show. If season 3 is an improvement over season 2, The Wheel of Time might become my favorite fantasy series.
I really really enjoyed this.
Have to agree, Mat and the horn was my favorite moment the whole season.
This show is so great! One of my favorite shows out there. So glad your covering this show. Sure wish more non WOT UA-cam channels would cover this. Hopefully as the series goes on? And It looks like it will with being the number one best streaming views for September. That other channels will pick this up along the way.
One thing i have worried about is it being cancelled after s3, i dont think WOT has been advertised very well. Have there been good viewing stats?
I don't mind them changing things and doing a retelling but there were some things (internal inconsistencies) and plot lines with no pay offs that bugged the hell out of me. They set up this whole thing with Nyn and Elayne trying to figure out the adame...a yellow sister even dies in the process. Nyn and Eve figure out that the suldams can channel so the Adam can work on them. But in the end, Eg frees herself by breaking laws they had set up...how was she able to collar the suldam? That's harmful intent. It didn't make her darker, it was just a silly plot contrivance and wasted many previous episodes. And of course, we shouldn't ask why shadar logoth dagger suddenly turns things to powder now...except Rand, of course Loial in the previous season and a whole other people who should be dust too. I really enjoyed this season but I wish they wrapped it up with better writing and good pay offs.
The eggy freeing herself is the writing teams need for spectacle. Its a mistake imo, that should be something that she can not get out of by herself. To have her turn around after that and go toe to toe with the most powerful man in the world is laughable at best. I actually think its a good idea showing Rand to be not up to the level of his book counterpart, but when they are overpowering the girls it just does not make sense. If the showrunners are reading comments I hope they get why this is a mistake.
egwene yeeting her suldam is not really breaking tower law, as she hasnt sworn the oaths
@@kennethleangabriel59 It's not about the tower law. It's the a'dame law established before. With that thing around her neck, she can't pick up anything to harm her sul'dam. She really shouldn't be able to do that. And all this "what is abstract vs bla harm" is just trying to justify bad writing. Intent to collar someone and kill them is harmful intent. She should not have even been able to touch that thing. Unless they are making her a Mary Sue who can break and bend all lore to suit the plot. And that's lazy writing.
it has nothing to do with the oaths, its the collar that the op is claiming should keep her from placing the collar on her Suldam, but personally I think that is actually possible. I do have issues with her being able to choke out her Suldam while wearing the collar though. She is supposed to feel that exponentially. Then after all that have a fight with the most powerful forsaken and hold her own? Nah that's two poor choices that do not pass the logic test. @@kennethleangabriel59
I'm not alone on the crying after Mat blew the horn! 😭 It was ugly. And then he said the saying and I just bawled. It was amazing. Yeah the fire dragon thing felt stretched, already like how Moiraine could channel that long and that formed but I guess coz she had months of keeping it in it might have felt like a new first time touching the one power for her but the dragon felt like it was too much.
I liked the Egwene ending. It appeared to me that she didn't find a way around the pain of the a'dam, but rather just TOOK the pain. It's a glimpse in to the iron will of the captive Amrlyn from The Gathering Storm, that I think lacked setup, in the books.
If I had to guess I would guess that Nynaeve being even more blocked than in the books is going to be important in season 3. My guess is Liandrin will attempt to turn her to the dark one by saying she can remove the block. It really seemed like they went out of their way to make sure her block was a horrible problem in this end of the season.
As for Renna and Egwene the best ending would have been Egwene picking up a pitcher from somewhere and smashing Renna in the face with it.
Very that! I would have loved to see Egwene get a little more physical after all Renna put her through.
I agree with the Ingtar arc needed to be used. The question of can a darkfriend be saved, or return to the light is an important question. While overall I enjoyed and was entertained by season 2, there are just too many spots where I have to tell myself "dont think too hard about it, just take it at face value" and honestly i struggle with any tv show/movie/books where I have to tell myself that. I want to think about things, I want to catch the clues and foreshadowing. In this tv show, you have to wonder if something is intentional or just a plot hole left due to writing. Is it really a clue of what is to come, or did they just screw up...again...
I couldn't get past the show ignoring all the collar lore they'd established before. Ignoring orders, channeling at will while still being collared, while her suld'am was still wearing the bracer, force-collaring Renna... This from the same show that had Egwene try and fail to grab a plain water pitcher in Ep6.
Stuff like that just kicks me out of immersion really hard, and there were tons of those in the show.
I'm glad for the show that a lot of people are obviously willing to look past such issues. I just can't.
I'm really frustrated with all this non-logical stuff they put on the show. What about Lan knowing more about channeling than Moiraine in ep. 07? And Rand who doesn't know how to channel until ep. 06, becomes stronger than Ishamael in ep. 07 and 08. The Falme part was SO MUCH better in the books.
The collar is not a weapon and doesn't in itself "hurt" someone Egwene could put that on Renna due to that. Was a clever move really lol.
@@phantiasmic Neither is a water jug. It's the _intent_ of the wielder that changes it all, as ep6 abundantly proved. Is your point that Egwene had no intention of doing Renna any harm while collaring her? 😳
@@bidossessi You can smash someone in the head with a pitcher, that little ring likely can't do much. Harm later is not the same as harm with it. She had no intent to harm Renna with the ring and in fact would not even know 100% it would even work until she did it.
Not even remotely close to a pitcher smashing someone with.
Well unless Egwene is John Wick and uses the a'dam like brass knuckles? Yeah... bit of a stretch.
@@JulioFrosi Lan did not know more than Moraine, no male channelers ever live long enough to do much at all.
He just simply started thinking outside the box, and with all that Moraine had going on it's what he should have done. (And Lan has been with Moraine over 20 years, he would be a complete moron if he did not know a few things by then lol)
A bit weirded out to see 2 guys pontificating over how "murdering" a slaver from an invading army makes someone "darker." In the books Egwene left her collared so she would spent the rest of her centuries-long life as a slave, and you think that's LESS "dark"? I was disappointed because I thought killing her was too easy, but there wasn't really an opportunity to give her back to the Seanchan, and it did deprive the Seanchan of more weapons they could use to enslave more women.
It would have been better to do what the book did, just have her attack her and need to be held back by her friends, it shows so much better what this cost her.
I am beginning to prefer the show over the books. The show made the characters more complex and human. Sure, the protagonists, like Rand, seem badass in the early stages of the books, but the show properly portrayed them as normal young people who are afraid of their destiny. I guess Season 3 will explore them all accepting who they are supposed to be. House of the Dragon may seem cool but its potential was hindered by the reliance on time skips which hindered us from seeing the characters' progressions. When it came to Ishamael and Lanfear's portrayal, I really loved how there is a subtle inner conflict in them to hurt Rand because they really seemed to care and miss their best friend: Lews Therin Telamon.
Rafe has already said that they plotted out an 8 season story arc.
Season 1 was terrible for many reasons, the bar was set so low there was only one way to go. Season 2 is better but still cannot escape the canon/lore breaking changes they made in season one. They broke it in season 1 and now its poor fan fiction a lot of the time. Wow, your statements at the start were ummm can't agree even slightly. Nobody is going to remember this compared to Game of Thrones.
Hopper flew!
Mat a Hero of the horn! Does than mean no Snakes and foxes?
Gaidal Cain was Uno...2 swords and nest to Birgette
Rand Doey eyed at Elayne, "Who are you?"
Are they both Dan?😄
It's Dans all the way down here.
About twenty years ago I was walking down the street one night with three mates, two of them women. As we were walking we spotted a used sanitary pad stuck to a wall about six foot off the ground. That sanitary pad was more entertaining than the Wheel Of Rafe's Ego.
Just hearing that story was more entertaining than Rafe’s show. And it didn’t cost $160 million
It was great !
The show is utter trash. I honestly dont know what to make of people who actually like the show. If they are sincere, it is a bit depressing honestly.
Maybe standards have fallen so abysmally low this utter tripe is considered good.
These two guys are two people whose opinons I can safely discard! 😅
It's garbage, but don't expect them to keep your post. Non-show posts have a mysterious habit of vanishing lately.
@brianweekes1757 God, that's pathetic. Surely not! Imagine being so weak that you have to be toxicy positive, and all negative comments must be expunged! 😅
Yeah I got muted on another youtube channel for saying "I don't like it" lol. @@hooligan9794
Disagree. Mat blew the horn and the 'army' was, like, five people. Why bother?