Well said. The same is true of real world/modeling comparisons. As far as the Kemper goes, Fractal models at the component level and accounts for cascading of gain stages and a million other things. There is no comparison. The Kemper is solely an IR capture and playback device. Profiling in the Kemper is so dependent upon the skill of the person profiling, the room/volume/cab/speaker/mic style & brand/placement, and their subsequent signal chain. Once it's shot, you're locked into that curve, with just slight EQ adjustments you can make. If the profile was shot at breakup, and you're using that for a clean, at that point it has no affiliation with the source amp. The big end result is the feel and response. FAS has it to the point now where you can switch the style or brand of tubes, move the amp's tonestack, dial in transformer mismatches, speaker impedance, speaker drive and compression, and half-a-million other details. That's just in the Amp Block. Then there's the effects.
Thanks for these videos What would be a cool comparison is how do they stack up for a live performance? Which one sounds best when playing on stage with it? I had a Kemper then got the AxeFx3, and I can dial in better tones going into the DAW with the AX3, but the Kemper seemed better for a live sound. I say seemed because I sold it after I got the AX3
For me I was able to get a better live sound with the acts effects because I can completely tailor the sound. But I think we're either one of them if you find the sound that works it just does. They have way too much sonic valuability to not be able to do what you need.
@@MusicWithMarky I can dial in some really great tones with the AX3, just as I increase the volume the sound completely changes and becomes too bright/harsh (there's a name for this that I can't remember, but has to do with how our brains perceive loud sounds) so I need to add in different EQ blocks for different volumes. I read that Kemper has the Kemper kone, have you tried that? Would be really cool if Fractal added in a volume curve block (or something) that would take care of this.
I am not familiar with that functionality on the Kemper. I have definitely dialed in different sounds for live performance that we write inside the rehearsal space on a really loud PA. It's so hard to emulate a club environment and get that sound beforehand!
Have both Kemper and FM3. The best imo is the Kemper with good profiles, much better for playing and recording too, BUT I like the fact FM3 is smaller, with and audio interface and much better effects, so I use it on the go more often, recording ideas and practicing. My dream is a smaller Kemper but don’t know if it’s possible... can’t wait for Kemper magic patents to fall in order to get that wonderful technology on Fractal stuff!!! Future is bright for us users :) (Don’t buy helix, it’s shitty ;)
I agree, the fx on the Fractal Stuff is so superior. For pure amp sounds, I've found things that I really enjoy on either unit. My go to sound is on the Kemper, however.
It can't be apples to apples because if you used IRs with Kemper you would significantly alter the sound and feel of the profile. The cabinets in the profiles on Kemper sound and feel way more natural than IRs. However you could run them through the same speaker and mic combination and compare the amps like that, but even that is not apples to apples since you have to know what were the setting on the specific amp model that was used for profiling on the Kemper in order to apply the same settings on Axe FX. Even then you can go further down the rabbit hole and look at which tubes were used, any modifications done to the amps and etc. Apples to apples comparison just doesn't make sense if you ask me. Best thing is to try them and then to make a decision.
That's a fair assessment. The next step I've been taking is using the same irs and that's as close as it'll get. I guess I'll get red apples to green apples then.
Either the Kemper or Axe FX can be tweaked to sound exactly how you'd want, really. With the Kemper you would have to find a profile someone made that sounds like what you have in mind. With the Axe FX you would more likely create a rig with that amp as a starting point and tweak it yourself from there.
@@MusicWithMarky The ability to create the tone with the axe fx sounds more flexible rather than find a profile “like you want” that's is correct? I'm struggling with these two units because in my country is not possible to buy a Diezel amp or preamp pedal. Thanks for your comment, and happy new year!
I've heard that before, but then it doesn't really help people who can't decide which one to buy, because how are they going to know which one sounds closer to their favorite amp(s) out of the box? There's so many angles to look at this stuff from. Showing just presets for the guys who don't want to go tweaking crazy up to every nuance. Hopefully, I can eventually cover the whole gamut. Thanks for checking out the vid!
Excellent points Mark! With so many variables - from cabs to preamp models to mic choice and placemant, I'm sure that sonically each can beat the other out on many fronts in different ways. My only criteria really would be to measure the latency each produces. The one with the least would have the edge for me. Thanks again for another great video man!
Thinking about this... It's it the latency of the sounds purely (pick attack to sound out) or when switching patches live that you are wondering about?
@@MusicWithMarky Hey Mark - You got it....the first one: The pick to sound out. These guys who make them do what they can to squeeze as much mileage out of not only the A/D and D/A conversion but also in how the signal is processed in the FFT domain. With a good processor, which can handle high sampling rates the latency can be minimized while still providing high fidelity sound. OF course, there's 'no free lunch' as they say - so trade offs always have to be made. This is where I'd be very picky, because the ultimate goal is high sound quality with the latency difference being as small as possible as compared to going into a miked amp. (Sorry for the long diatribe). I bring this up, because I just made the switch back to a miked amp - because that tiny bit of latency (granted it's an old POD X3 Live) drove me nuts when doing more of the faster picking work.
@@guitarmeetsscience So, like you I like to do quick staccato lines and so latency can get under my skin. In my studio I have both the Axe FX and the Kemper hooked up with XLR stereo out into a mixer. The mixer has stereo outs to a Motu and I listen to it on monitor mode (so the signal in, not through the computer). Doing it this way I have never experienced latency that effected my playing or annoyed me.
@@MusicWithMarky That's great to know! My digital gear is older, and I'm sure they've come a long way in terms of sheer processing power. If I were to pickup a piece of gear nowadays, I would have to give it the 'pick to sound-out' test, based off what you said I'll probably dig one of the new units that are out now.
The Kemper was maddening for me, i gave it a year but too much tweaking and tweaking.... maybe it was just me but the axe was a better fit, those sounds kemper created drove me nuts....
I was one of the first people to buy a Kemper way back. I went crazy tweaking it. Too many variables, and you need to tweak it with a band to ensure your sound doesn't get masked. I ended up with the super easy Atomic Amplifire......which sounds awesome. Now looking at Fm3....
Although you are right with some points, I disagree fundamentally because you never can talk apples- apples with such different sound approach units. The Kemper says: "Gimme a tube amp rig, I will sound 100% like IT". The Fractal goes a fundamentally a different way and says, "I can do it too but I never claim to always sound EXACTLY like that tube amp rig, but I will sound great, too, even if I sound slightly different". So the question is: how close can fractal get to exactly IT if you want to compare those units. If you don't want to compare both to the gooal rig and see how close they can get, you don't have any basis for any comparison imho.
Spot on! The so-called "comparisons" are just dumb. Just pick your favorite workflow and go with it, I say. Well said.
Thanks!
Well said. The same is true of real world/modeling comparisons.
As far as the Kemper goes, Fractal models at the component level and accounts for cascading of gain stages and a million other things. There is no comparison. The Kemper is solely an IR capture and playback device. Profiling in the Kemper is so dependent upon the skill of the person profiling, the room/volume/cab/speaker/mic style & brand/placement, and their subsequent signal chain. Once it's shot, you're locked into that curve, with just slight EQ adjustments you can make. If the profile was shot at breakup, and you're using that for a clean, at that point it has no affiliation with the source amp. The big end result is the feel and response.
FAS has it to the point now where you can switch the style or brand of tubes, move the amp's tonestack, dial in transformer mismatches, speaker impedance, speaker drive and compression, and half-a-million other details. That's just in the Amp Block. Then there's the effects.
Exactly!
Thanks for these videos
What would be a cool comparison is how do they stack up for a live performance?
Which one sounds best when playing on stage with it?
I had a Kemper then got the AxeFx3, and I can dial in better tones going into the DAW with the AX3, but the Kemper seemed better for a live sound.
I say seemed because I sold it after I got the AX3
For me I was able to get a better live sound with the acts effects because I can completely tailor the sound. But I think we're either one of them if you find the sound that works it just does. They have way too much sonic valuability to not be able to do what you need.
@@MusicWithMarky I can dial in some really great tones with the AX3, just as I increase the volume the sound completely changes and becomes too bright/harsh (there's a name for this that I can't remember, but has to do with how our brains perceive loud sounds) so I need to add in different EQ blocks for different volumes.
I read that Kemper has the Kemper kone, have you tried that?
Would be really cool if Fractal added in a volume curve block (or something) that would take care of this.
I am not familiar with that functionality on the Kemper. I have definitely dialed in different sounds for live performance that we write inside the rehearsal space on a really loud PA. It's so hard to emulate a club environment and get that sound beforehand!
Have both Kemper and FM3. The best imo is the Kemper with good profiles, much better for playing and recording too, BUT I like the fact FM3 is smaller, with and audio interface and much better effects, so I use it on the go more often, recording ideas and practicing. My dream is a smaller Kemper but don’t know if it’s possible... can’t wait for Kemper magic patents to fall in order to get that wonderful technology on Fractal stuff!!!
Future is bright for us users :)
(Don’t buy helix, it’s shitty ;)
I agree, the fx on the Fractal Stuff is so superior. For pure amp sounds, I've found things that I really enjoy on either unit. My go to sound is on the Kemper, however.
It can't be apples to apples because if you used IRs with Kemper you would significantly alter the sound and feel of the profile. The cabinets in the profiles on Kemper sound and feel way more natural than IRs.
However you could run them through the same speaker and mic combination and compare the amps like that, but even that is not apples to apples since you have to know what were the setting on the specific amp model that was used for profiling on the Kemper in order to apply the same settings on Axe FX. Even then you can go further down the rabbit hole and look at which tubes were used, any modifications done to the amps and etc. Apples to apples comparison just doesn't make sense if you ask me.
Best thing is to try them and then to make a decision.
That's a fair assessment. The next step I've been taking is using the same irs and that's as close as it'll get. I guess I'll get red apples to green apples then.
@@MusicWithMarky heheh fair enough :)
Good point! thanks for sharing! I have a little question, what is the best hardware to get the most close sound to the Diezel VH4?
Either the Kemper or Axe FX can be tweaked to sound exactly how you'd want, really. With the Kemper you would have to find a profile someone made that sounds like what you have in mind. With the Axe FX you would more likely create a rig with that amp as a starting point and tweak it yourself from there.
@@MusicWithMarky The ability to create the tone with the axe fx sounds more flexible rather than find a profile “like you want” that's is correct? I'm struggling with these two units because in my country is not possible to buy a Diezel amp or preamp pedal. Thanks for your comment, and happy new year!
Yes, that is correct.
@@MusicWithMarky thanks!
That was very useful, thank you!!
Sure thing!
A true comparison would be to set up a patch on the AXE and then profile it. Then compare...
I've heard that before, but then it doesn't really help people who can't decide which one to buy, because how are they going to know which one sounds closer to their favorite amp(s) out of the box? There's so many angles to look at this stuff from. Showing just presets for the guys who don't want to go tweaking crazy up to every nuance. Hopefully, I can eventually cover the whole gamut.
Thanks for checking out the vid!
Excellent points Mark! With so many variables - from cabs to preamp models to mic choice and placemant, I'm sure that sonically each can beat the other out on many fronts in different ways. My only criteria really would be to measure the latency each produces. The one with the least would have the edge for me. Thanks again for another great video man!
Sure thing! The latency issue is one that I haven't explored yet.
Thinking about this... It's it the latency of the sounds purely (pick attack to sound out) or when switching patches live that you are wondering about?
@@MusicWithMarky Hey Mark - You got it....the first one: The pick to sound out. These guys who make them do what they can to squeeze as much mileage out of not only the A/D and D/A conversion but also in how the signal is processed in the FFT domain. With a good processor, which can handle high sampling rates the latency can be minimized while still providing high fidelity sound. OF course, there's 'no free lunch' as they say - so trade offs always have to be made. This is where I'd be very picky, because the ultimate goal is high sound quality with the latency difference being as small as possible as compared to going into a miked amp. (Sorry for the long diatribe). I bring this up, because I just made the switch back to a miked amp - because that tiny bit of latency (granted it's an old POD X3 Live) drove me nuts when doing more of the faster picking work.
@@guitarmeetsscience So, like you I like to do quick staccato lines and so latency can get under my skin. In my studio I have both the Axe FX and the Kemper hooked up with XLR stereo out into a mixer. The mixer has stereo outs to a Motu and I listen to it on monitor mode (so the signal in, not through the computer).
Doing it this way I have never experienced latency that effected my playing or annoyed me.
@@MusicWithMarky That's great to know! My digital gear is older, and I'm sure they've come a long way in terms of sheer processing power. If I were to pickup a piece of gear nowadays, I would have to give it the 'pick to sound-out' test, based off what you said I'll probably dig one of the new units that are out now.
excellent points here
Thank you!
The Kemper was maddening for me, i gave it a year but too much tweaking and tweaking.... maybe it was just me but the axe was a better fit, those sounds kemper created drove me nuts....
Yeah it seems people are in one camp or the other for what works best for them.
I was one of the first people to buy a Kemper way back. I went crazy tweaking it. Too many variables, and you need to tweak it with a band to ensure your sound doesn't get masked. I ended up with the super easy Atomic Amplifire......which sounds awesome. Now looking at Fm3....
Although you are right with some points, I disagree fundamentally because you never can talk apples- apples with such different sound approach units. The Kemper says: "Gimme a tube amp rig, I will sound 100% like IT". The Fractal goes a fundamentally a different way and says, "I can do it too but I never claim to always sound EXACTLY like that tube amp rig, but I will sound great, too, even if I sound slightly different". So the question is: how close can fractal get to exactly IT if you want to compare those units. If you don't want to compare both to the gooal rig and see how close they can get, you don't have any basis for any comparison imho.
Fair enough.
Great shirt! I have the same one. 🤘
Gotta love old school nerd swag!!