Extendable Baton Comparison: Monadnock, ASP, the No Name, annnnnd My Broken ASP.
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- Comparing the most commonly used extendable police batons: the Monadnock Autolock, Asp Friction Lock, and the knock off from the flea market. While most people will rarely have occasion to use an extendable baton for its intended purpose, when it is needed it’s use is almost always a dire emergency. Those who find themselves in the market for one should take into account the big differences between the $20 examples and the $175 ones. Here I give you a direct comparison…and some hard earned experience with their use on the street.
I still carry a 26” straight stick. It is an attention getter. I stand and walk on patrol. I’ve had it about 20 years. It gets many compliments such as “I do not wanna get hit with that!” Helps gaining voluntary compliance.
The one on the bottom with a diamond-pattern grip is made either by Fury Tactical or MTech. I have one of those batons and carry one for my security EDC. They are $15-$20, sure, but they are fairly solid batons. Mine is 26" and it won't bend unless you hit solid objects like trees and cinder blocks. The tip isn't immune to the cutting issue, however.
Here in Holland were switching from a 16 inch straight ruber/fiberglass baton to a Bonowi Camloch 21 inch expandable baton with a retraction button. The old one has been in use since the 70's and has hardly any impact.
+Hold McGroin well, it is good that you are switching then. I've heard nothing but positive and about the bonowi.
Fantastic video I'm getting my baton training soon this was great info
Thanks for this. I was going to buy a 20$ one @ a local smoke shop. It has a spike on the bottom for pressing into & breaking windows. It looks like one of the batons you showed that won't retract right away. I'm DEFINITELY BUYING A MONADNOCK. I love the quick button to help retract/quiet release.
Since this video was released a couple other brands came out with similar batons with slightly different operating systems. Please, take a look at all of the types and pick the one that you think will work best for you.
Give peacemaker baton a try. Burn 140 and a holster. They are friction lock with alot of forward weight. Ive had mine sence 14. Been used in about 20 heavy confrontations, 30+ windows, hit rocks and hasnt bent, no issues, best investment ever
the monadnock is the one I carry at work, if you get one brand new just be sure to rack it plenty as they stick a bit until broken in.
The agency I work for issues brand new Monadnock 21'' Autolocks, and I love it! It's a great little tool.
+Ceejay Physics it is indeed
Situation is now made more interesting by the fact that ASP has began making a button collapsable baton. Not sure how it compares to the monadnock, but obviously everyone sees the future. As for the rough nub problem. If you have a bench grinder with a buffing wheel and polishing compound those tips can easily be polished smooth again...you might have to start on the wire wheel for a couple of min, but the polishing compound will smooth it right out.
+wb5mgr As soon as the monanadnock breaks or gets stolen I am going to try out the asp disc lock baton. I've heard so much about them.
The ASP Talon Loc Batons are good, but the measurements go by centimeters and are shorter than the friction lock batons.
40cm, 50cm, and 60cm are the ones ASP offers in their new push button batons. I would only recommend the 60cm ASP Talon Loc push button baton since it measures a little over 23”. The 50cm baton is only 19”, and is shorter than the recommended 21”+ length.
great videos! I laughed at your pronunciation of Monadnock! it's actually MO-NAD-NOCK (muh-nad(as in gonad)-knock). it's a mountain in Washington or something. I started out in LE with their expandable PR. (16 yr vet of police work) stay safe and keep the vids coming.
I'm also an FTO and you came up with a great idea on here doing these.
+sauer800 thanks, we shall see how long this goes before work puts the kabosh on it. So far so good.
+sauer800 thanks! I shall try to keep it flowing. Mon-on-nad-on-ed-nock? Or mon-add-nun-nak? Mon-an-ono-no-hock? I might not be able to pronounce it, but if you need someone hit with it inassure you I'm your guy. Lol
+free field training lolololololol
Mount Monadnock is here in southern New Hampshire, though there are several peaks around New Hampshire and Vermont that contain the word "Monadnock" within their names. +Sauer800 your pronunciation is correct.
Hey Mike, for all glass breaking and seatbelt cutting needs I carry a cheap "rescue" knife with a glass breaker and seatbelt cutter integrated into the handle. I highly recommend it, as it saves your baton and is more precise. I was wondering about baton size, is 16, 21, or 24 the way to go with baton length?
can clean the tip up with a file, bench grinder or dremel. even grind the burr off on concrete. no need to replace for a long time
Great review bro and stay safe out there!
I own an ASP Sentry baton as a home defense weapon since I am not a law enforcement officer. I bought it used from a pawn shop for $40. Haven't had any problems with it nor have I ever had to use it which is a good thing but it is better than nothing especially when you are unable to purchase a firearm (I am old enough and don't have any criminal records) due to your parents not wanting one in the house.
ASP makes the Talon baton which uses the push button to close method. I carry one
on the job myself
Alec Garza are you a cop
How does it holding up?
You may wanna check out the ESP (Euro Security Products) alot of people mix them up with ASPs, ESP hardened batons are the gold standard in Europe and are tough as nails. Also the Peacekeeper (US made) is a bit of a beast.
This was awesome and informative, and with your accent, I have to say every time you said ASP Baton, I heard ASS Baton XD
+SteveShivik lol
same same
Thanks. Very informative.
When you said you weren't a fan of asp, i heard something a little different, but everyone's got their taste lol.
Anyway, i have a friction lock, which would be okay, but mine doesn't lock very well, which is fine when swinging, but jabs will collapse it. Now the good news is no one really uses batons, but when you need it is what i fear. I'll probably pick up a manononadonadock baton soon.
Asp now makes a push button and twist locking expandable batons. Might want to check those out as well.
I registered the same thing.
A Monadnock, twenty-one inches ... Day in, day out ... A little under ninety US Yankee Greenback Dollars, inclusive of shipping. BUT, that's for their friction lock. Their autolock, as shown in the video, at twenty-six inches, will set you back around one hundred forty (plus).
I was surprised to see no discussion of the coil spring batons. They seem like they would offer more energy at the strike with less chance of damage and locking open. Anyone have any thoughts?
+Crockagater I've never used one. Can't talk about what I don't know about.
I just keep side handle baton ring on dutybelt just drop asp into it until I get a chance to close it. ( Cone rentention cap on asp)
Very nice video.
Question: do you have any experience with asp airweight batons ? do you see it effective ?
Id recommend Smith and wesson they have good batons as well
Look at an ESP made in Europe. The Polizie use them and I just ordered one to carry on duty. Good luck!
+Keep Gunzup when the monanadnodonananaodnock breaks I likely will give a different brand a try.
Yeah I would agree with you there the fact that's it's larger then the standard auto lock and the button feature it does have an easier interface. Looking at a video it is an intriguing impact tool. Might have to pick one up and try it out. For now the Neanderthal peacekeeper lol. Stay safe brother!
+free field training expandable batons from what I have read and practiced with tend to bend which is why if ever given the option I would go for a strait stick baton might be more cumbersome to carry around but it works a lot better. Also expandable batons do not have the mass and such to really take down people where as a straight stick does.
Generally, yes. Think of an extendable baton like a minivan and a heavy straight stick riot baton like a box truck.
The minivan is more convenient to have around all the time and works OK as an emergency or occasional cargo hauler. You might have to take a few trips but, it'll do most of the work. Unless you need to move big furniture...
The box truck is a much better tool for hauling cargo. It will move anything you need to in a single trip and do it with ease. But, we aren't going to drive it around all day.
If we are out with the family it makes good sense to drive the minivan. If we should run into a great sale on a new table saw having that cargo space is great.
If we knew we were helping out buddy move out of his house and we knew he had a bunch of crap, we would bring the box truck.
So, having an extendable baton on your belt is a great way to be ready. But, if we are hopping out at a bar fight with 20 subs pouring out into the parking lot rolling on the ground it is time to pull the straight stick as we roll out of the car.
Neither is really "better" in my book, I have and use both.
I have 2 expandable batons. A 16 inch schrade, and a 24 inch Smith and Wesson. They're apparently both heat treated, quality steel.
Are these good for basic security use?
i carry a concealable asp 16inch in my pocket at the company im with now. (i have the meb cert) my company doesn't want us carrying batons on our duty rigs. (we are armed.. i know it makes no sense) but for jobs that allow me a baton i have the monadonock 22in with power tip. i love that thing well worth the money. now my previous employer was a government contractor and the issued everything except socks and underwear. they gave us cheap galls asp knock offs. i actually bent it around a guys thigh when i had to us it on him. my philosophy is buy once cry once. if this is your career and you arent dictated by policy. carry a monadonock
+Drew Miller Lol, I just imagine you walking around and guys saying "you happy to see me drew?"
had an asp for a long time , but your review was dead on. lol
+larry price I still have them... I mean, free is free right?
I hear the new asp talon lock that twists to close is better. Maybee I'll get the wife to get me one with my money for Christmas.
Great idea
larry price
lmao
I'll
Probably get one after high school
I really like the Peacekeeper 24 baton.
I own both. Cheap baton, and my Monadnock. I have bent the cheap fury batons before. You can bend them back, but I just buy 2 extra. My Monadnock is scratched, with a torn grip, but has never bent. I finally just stuck with the cheap baton, so other security guards would QUIT trying to scam my expensive baton from me. Very informative video, I learned once again I am not an expert.
I want an Asp baton Is it illegal in Canada? I want one for self defence because there has been alot of break in recentlyb
as long as the baton is not an automatic/spring baton then it's legal
In this durability test video, the *monadnock breaks* the quickest. Here is the video: ua-cam.com/video/lBRAB70a0xk/v-deo.html
There are multiple videos on UA-cam showing people doing durability tests on batons, and ESP is clearly stronger by far. Just search "ESP baton" on UA-cam.
I see you have a gen-1 Monadnock, I have a gen 2, difference is you need more force to open a gen 1, an easy way to know what gen you have is the button, metal and pin is gen 1, black and plastic looking, corvering a large area on the end-cap is gen 2, another thing you didn't talk about is closing the ASP baton inside your house: in Canada, I don't know for US, floors except for kitchen and bathroom are wooden, if you strike a flaming new baton on that wood, you're gonna dent it, and if you do it outside, hitting it on the hot asphalt will dent it, mix that with having an apartment and not a house, your inspector is gonna flatten you out.
The new Swiss made Triton or Bonowi Eka Camlock are 2 batons you should look into, personally i'm really into The Bonowi
+karvkna when I manage to break my monadnock I'm definitely going to try a bonowi
+free field training i've carried mine for almost 1.5 years, not been forced to use it yet but it makes me feel allt more safe than with my old ASP.
+karvkna I don't doubt it. I hear they are fantastic. German police don't screw around so, I bet they work like crazy.
So you are saying that every time you close you asp baton you should replace the tip? When you close it it knicks the paint. So every time you train and have to close it and knick thr paint on the tip you should replace it? Expensive.
I am very curious to know what you do for a living?
I will check out your videos to find out.
I have done various security for the past Federal Laboratories Tear Gas Billy Club 24yrs I have all three of those batons and a few more. I have never had the problems opening a friction baton that you have. I have worked in very crowded environments with large fights that will break out with crowds of more then 40 & 50 people fighting. I have never accidentally hit someone with my baton while opening it. I have and can close a friction baton in one easy motion.
In the incidents where I do hit someone with my baton it is very much on purpose.
I work private security in south TX, 3 hours from the border. I feel comfortable at all the bars and strip clubs with a Peacekeeper RCB on my hip. I am alone most of the time
I hear you brother. Its sad that Companies/Clients only pay for One Guard in certain environments.
@@Northeastbaseball it's true!! Havung a second dude with me gives so much peace of mind .. luckily most of the bars I'm at now have a second officer come in for the closing hours
Forget about bteaking car winows from now on with a baton.
2018 Federal regulations all four sides must now have safety glass and many car manufacturers already switched a few years ago.
I bought a 20$ baton for home defense and it broke in pices just beating up the mattress. No mattresses were injured in this experiment.
If you work in security and it's your life on the line buy quality.
Good to see an officer who is actually concerned about not doing extreme damage when it isn't necessary.
I work in security and a good number of my co-workers carry the cheap $20 batons. almost all of them break during training exercises from just hitting a dummy. If it's a piece of gear that could save your life or the life of another, don't buy cheap.
+cbg5589 bingo!
Ha ha the nub on my first baton fell off my boss told me to spend more then 30 dollars for a good one I bought a ASP it got very inoying when putting it away it would always close so I ended up buying a slap snap and even though I never used it I haven't had trouble with it and I had it for 3 years now
A rattan stick works better but you can't carry that as a cop or security guard. I've got an ASP friction lock 26 inch myself and the ASP sidebreak scabbard. Works fine for me. Learn martial arts with impact weapons like Kali or Arnis. I've taken and am certified in ASP training and have my card and all.
I don't like the idea of a button on the butt end because if you need to hit someone with it it will hit the button and could collapse in a fight.
what holster do you recommend to keep an ASP from falling out when on a foot chase.
+AvenueD417 buddy of mine uses a closed top flashlight holster fir his because he had problems with his falling out.
If it's not opened, I suggest the esp holster sh21 (with the ubc-05 if you wish,or you can go with another clip)
I dislike the genuine ASP brand plastic swivel holder . It sticks out waaay too far from the belt , and I prefer vertical carry of it, so the infinite swivel capability is moot for me .
Leather holders intended for Streamlite ( metal) Stingers will fit ASP, and vice versa .
Lol....krylon, you nailed it!!!
I heard of something called a nightstick.. its something simpler to a baton, but used to push people in riots
While there are techniques for using a " normal 24-26 inch baton aka Nightstick for riot use , a true " Riot Stick " is something different , much longer .
What length of baton is most suitable for security/police work?
In extendables I'm partial to 21" for a duty belt carry but really it is a matter of preference and ability.
free field training cool thanks and btw I love your channel you're so down to earth and knowledgeable keep it up!
what about the old school batons cops in use Anchorage use the wooden sticks
what's the advantage of the ASP over those
+Ted Arscott a collapsible baton collapses. It is easier to carry around all the time.
teddy two guns Also weight
For actual USING , the old school 24in Hardwood is superior to any expandable baton .
To date myself , during my initial training from current employer ( not my first rodeo) was pre - ASP era , and we were tought some interesting and useful jab techniques , not part of current ASP training .
BUT , straight batons are inconvenient to carry , in vehicles , cars, chairs, desks , or tight spaces generally . Further dating myself ; Back in the day , a blackjack was Always in back pocket or waistband . If touble seemed likely , a straight baton was added Also .
The huge Positive about Expandable Batons is that they are convenient to have Always on your person , so that if a situiation suddenly, unexpectedly goes sideways , you will always have a mid level option available .
If you think of an ASP as an improved and upgraded Blackjack , instead of an undersized and inefficient straight baton , you will feel better about it .
Why no ESP batons. Seems to be the strongest
I was actually thinking about training in and getting an extendable baton (since a gun is not always easy to get out for concealed carry AND a baton can just be used to knock them down and do a citizens arrest)
Avoid the scharde, I had the top piece literally fly outta my baton when deploying it. Almost took out my windshield when it bounced off the ground.
Go RCB. Way higher quality than any of those and thicker steel.
Couldn’t there just be a way to put a window breaking tip on the end of the baton, but not the striking end just the end where you hold the baton with your hand? That way you hit the window with it, The window is broken now, then you use the end of your baton to go ahead and actually push the rest of the Glass out. Wouldn’t that be something good?
I did see some baton maybe a year ago or so advertised online they did have a window breaker in the baton but I think you actually had to unscrew the tip and it exposed the window breaker. That can be good and all but then you could lose the tip if you’re not careful. I don’t know if that’s a big deal or not or if they have plenty replacements or it’s unlikely to automatically unscrew itself just by normal wear and tear.
But I’ve seen many videos where cops are hitting a window as hard as they can with their baton and it’s not breaking at all.
I'd add an arrow tip (for breaking glass) mod to the monodonock handle... but then it would make the release button a pain :(
+Robert Ennew not to mention poke me in soft fleshy parts while turning circles.
+Robert Ennew Real talk though, I've found that adding pointy things to equipment just prematurely wears holes in my pants, coats and vest covers. I'll pass on the spikes.
Pro tip: If you are really that worried about breaking glass, break off a few pieces of spark plug and keep them in your pocket. Instant and free window punches.
+free field agree sparkplug tip more practical, back to R&D for me...
+Robert Ennew cheaper too!
just to correct this guy, the shaft of the ASP is not bent. it works just like an antenna (progressive taper). the warping is caused by the joint being misaligned. the metal itself is not bent. to get it closed you just need to tap it on the ground around a 45° angle. rotate a quarter turn and tap again. repeat this a few times (making sure to rotate each time) and it will eventually loosen enough to get closed. flicking it open again should realign it.
Tried it, doesn't work. Even if it did, that doesn't help me at 3am. Friction lock batons are outdated.
what size are those batons?
+91classicrock they are all about 21"
Surely the broken asp steel wasn't heat treated properly.
I was thinking his ASP was defective due to how difficult to close vs. Their advertising and other people's experience shown on youtube.
Curious about the laws behind Civilians owning and carrying these collapsible batons as utility items or self-defense in the city of Chicago. Is it legal at all? Or is it all circumstantial?
Oh it's not a problem, I figured as much, a bunch of kids brought it up at one point so I just thought I'd ask on FFT.
+tvercetti1 under Illinois law they are legal un less you "possess with the intent to use it unlawfully against another". In Cook County it is legal unless you "carry in a threatening or menacing manner". In Chicago there is s general ban on the possession of any "bludgeon " by anyone who is not a peace officer. It should be noted that every town can make it's own non gun related weapons laws (gun laws are more or less preempted by the state now). So, from town to town it could go from legal to illegal just by crossing a street. As an alternative I can point to pepper spray, which as far as I know is perfectly legal for everyone over 18, and a handgun with a ccw permit since the state has preemption on nearly all handgun laws in Illinois. It should be noted that stun guns are regulated as Firearms in Illinois but not classified as handguns which are covered by the ccw statute. So no stun guns or tasers for EDC here either.
Oh wow, so CCW is permitted in Chicago for civilians?
+Spitfire Studios Yes sir! for further reading google: 430 ILCS 66
Much appreciated!
Had to break a car window with the back of the monadnock baton and now it won’t close..... the auto lock won’t release the baton to collapse.
Twist the cap until you hear it click.
Do you find an expandable baton actually good for hitting people where it’s affective most of the time? There’s a guy on UA-cam called “Hard2Hurt” Who says that expandable batons are basically junk for the most part. He said they can work but they often are ineffective when using them in a legal way.
I'm not using the baton as a self defense tool. The baton is for dealing with large unruly crowds in an emergency like a bar fight or house party that has gone quite sideways. When used for it's intended purpose and scope extendable batons work very well. Using them as a ccw weapon or as a self defense tool is like using a pickup truck for a job you need a boat for.
I Want a baton
Why not have a dedicated window breaker tool instead of using a baton?
+Clayton “Patriot3791” Ryan You very well could and if I were an EMS provider or didn't carry a baton I certainly would.
Currently my gear minus boots, inner belt, and uniform weighs 32lbs. There is simply a point where you have to set priorities and start cutting things. If you don't you'll end up with a backpacking load for a work EDC, not healthy every day for 25+ years straight into your fifties.
I also don't carry four sets of cuffs and three handheld lights, even though there have been times where those would have come in very handy.
In police work we have to be mindful of finding hardware solutions to software problems. The problem is breaking out windows. The solution is easily found without a new piece of gear that gives me nothing else.
...and I have a brick in the trunk of my car in case all else fails.
+free field training If you carry a knife get one with a glassbreaker. The kershaw blur is great. Ive been carrying everyday for a yr now. Btw what size are those batons?
+kraigero they are all about 21". That's the size we use for training batons so the commonality of size just made the most sence.
I had an monadnock autolock for 2 weeks and I send it back.This thing was always wabbling and cracking.I send it to the repair service and nothing changed.also at the third day the autolock didn't locked open reliable and also it wasn't able to close.for that Money I want products,that works.Cuz I had an shitty autolock I will stay with my friction locks or the tonfas from monadnock.
+Kay Man hmm, never had or seen a problem with them. The pr-24 always seemed like a bit much to carry on the regular. Plus the last thing I need is another thing to remember while getting out of the car fifteen times a day.
free field training yeah,of course,I knew the disantvantage of straight batons.but when I didn't have to get out of the car (like when I'm only on foot)I would carry the pr-24 otherwise the pr-xts (when I have to get into a Car and jump out quickly).when I'm going out private I always have my friction lock baton from ESP.friction locks just can bend,a autolock can have broken system,like mine had.everything can brake.I dont want to spend money for things I can't trust,cuz I have to pay everything by myself.but I'm also a collector so...like the most of my money goes on for stuff like batons,knives or Exotic equipment
free field training I also have less to carry than you or the american police overall.I also dont wear a gun or extra clips so,that's weight I don't have to carry ;)
But there is something what I want to know:would you recommend the asp-batons as good friction lock batons?
+Kay Man knives are fun. .OST of mine tend to break just like your baton. Lol
+Kay Man No, I really wouldn't. In order to be effective asp batons have to generate lots of velocity. The techniques taught in the asp classes of flicking the wrist to get that velocity just aren't realistic in my experience. Asp friction lock batons are a compromise just like all other collapsible batons. I just think they are not a particularly good compromise due to their low mass. Especially the detective weight and short 16" ones.
How about the ASP Talon button closing baton that has been out for about two years now?
+Jamie W I'd love to give you an opinion on that baton, but I simply don't have any experience with them, haven't seen one in any of my local uniform supply stores, and don't know anyone who has actually used one on the street. I suspect that they are having trouble penetrating a pretty conservative market.
Until I see someone using one for it's intended purpose for any length of time, which the talon dic lock has not even been around long enough for, I would reserve judgement on the action type. I can, however, attest to the durability issues that the friction locks have under heavy use.
If you buy one, and use it heavily, I'd love to hear you opinion on it.
Hope that helps.
-tommy
It's taken ASP a long time to bring it out whereas Monadnocks Autolock has been around for at least 10 years and has become the favorite, I like the Autolock its a nice bit of kit.
Very interesting to see that that ASP is bent, ASP are always going on that the steel they use is 4140 whereas others are 4130, I have also heard people say that because ASP's shafts are thinner than Monadnock that when striking not enough force is behind the strike.
I think it is important to remember that, just as a handgun, an extendable baton is an emergency tool.
If we knew we were going to a gunfight we would bring a rifle. Likewise, if we knew we were going to a brawl we wouldn't take any extendable baton, we would take a strait heavy wooden or poly riot baton. Any collapsible baton is going to be a compromise. What compromises we want to make is a very individual thing.
I have never noticed, in the heat of the moment, a difference in striking power between the two.
+Jamie W I try to remain unbiased even as a certified ASP instructor. In my opinion ASPs are not the best baton for most LEO use. Peace Keeper Batons are. ASP does use stronger 4140 steel which is around 20% stronger yield than 4130. However, all talon batons use 4130 steel, only friction loc batons are 4140. ASP baton tips are problematic as they don't use hardened steel as they do with the shafts, this causing burring. To remove them simply apply a propane torch to the tip or use a hot plate, which will liquify the locktite and let you unscrew it. Monadnock's locking system is inferior in all aspect compared to ASPs talon. Monadnocks open rotating shafts not only introduces a huge amount of play weakening the baton at its tapers it requires a lot of maintenance. Cam and bearings weaken significantly on hard expands so much that you often need to replace the assembly after a year. Talons use of discs are much more reliable. As far as window breaking we never recommend nor any company does under normal swing operation. The batons shafts have very little surface area to absorb a blunt object energy strike. In the event you have to, we advise to use the baton backward and strike the window. The weight of the handle provides much greater striking energy, and less energy "recoil". Also the window breakaway caps are amazing at breaking the hardest glass.
Nick Kaumans Man, you must be using the crap out of an autolock to break in a year what I've (pun intended) beat on for a decade! Great comment.
Hey brother! Here is my 2 cents!
I am against unarmed security carrying a baton without at least a taser or a firearm as a backup. The retention is poor and if you lose that thing, that thing could kill you and deadly force can be justified. I'm not a fan of OC being the backup either because it's effectiveness and range is limited on many people.
Using a baton requires the officer be in close proximity or close the distance, but dangerous enough that hard empty hand will not suffice. This along greatly increases injury to the offender and officer by double digits. In my industry, healthcare security, more and more hospitals are getting rid of the baton and replacing them with a taser or ECW. The ECW, or taser, is a smarter choice because, as I said, it lessens the potential for injury to the offender and the officer as well as improves the ability for an officer to maintain distance until backup or PD arrives. A taser looks scary and most who have been hit know what it means. Plus, a study done in 2014 by the International Healthcare Security and Safety Foundation (IHSSF) found that a recent trend for many hospitals is to just arm their officers with a firearm. However, the most stunning part of the study is the those who also armed their officers with an ECW has a 43% reduction in hands on incidents, either because the offender saw it, the officer pulled it or it was deployed. There was also a drastic reduction in injuries sustained to offender and officer. All of this equals reasonably limiting liability. The issue is budgetary, ECW's aren't cheap to equip, maintain and train on.
Also, if you haven't already, check out the 2008 Canadian Police Research Centre study done with Calgary PD. It's incredibly interesting!
+SirWhiteCrayon Tasers are great but they are not a replacement for the baton. They have some very serious effectiveness, reliability, and versitility issues. Batons should ideally be an augmentation to the taser. Many at pd's have directly replaced the baton with a taser only to bring the baton back after dealing with a large brawl and not having a tool to handle it effectively.
I am referring to my specific environment, where replacing the baton due to added risk of injury and just going hands on or having an ECW taser is much better option.
The facts don't lie, when you use a Baton, you are going to injure that person, potentially causing permanent damage or loss of life. Healthcare organization administrators look at this every different than the public sector. The evidence is clear for my environment, ECW taser is proving to be the best less lethal "Active Aggression" tool for healthcare security personnel.
+SirWhiteCrayon I think we are saying about the same thing here brother. I just wouldn't nix one for the other.
free field training Use of force is the same, but the environment is different. The hospital environment is unique.
+SirWhiteCrayon I see where you are comming from, I just don't agree. There are worse things in life than disagreement that is how we all learn.
Carry a monadnock and a utility knife with a window punch, problem solved.
Also PR24 master race.
free field training Yeah. Same here. They're just so much more versatile though.
Perhaps it would be worth an explanation as to what the real purpose of a baton is to the uninitiated out here. Just using some common sense , I would be reluctant to employ a baton in an altercation. Seems to me that a situation could quickly escalate. How about a video on how , why, and when a baton should be used . I knows these videos are geared for peace officers but you've a got a following of ordinary citizens as well.
That's a good point. Honestly, I don't see much point for the average Joe. I spend quite a bit of my life as the average Joe when I'm not working and an extendable baton just doesn't give me anything off duty that I want or need. They are comparatively very heavy compared to a taser or OC, require much more proficiency, and are meant to be used to break up fights and literally beat people into compliance not to defend from an aggressor. Not that it couldn't work, I just think there are much better options for people.
they work on dogs
For LE / Security training/ certification , a large portion is focused on what Not to do , and where Not to strike , to avoid inflicting Death , or Serious Bodily Injury . That's part of why when carried/ deployed by LE / trained Security , a baton is a Less Lethal tool , but the same thing in the hands of a BG or lay person is potentially a Deadly Weapon .
There Are techniques for baton that are explicitly tought as being only suitable for situiations where Deadly Force would be justified . Generally , at that point , the baton would be disposed , and gun employed , but : a. Sometimes a gun is not suitable due to close proximity of victims/ hostages/ bystanders , and shooting is contraindicated . b. If gun is not issued, or otherwise not available at that moment , you have to use what you have at hand at that moment .
what you have there is the old schrade swat baton, the new version is about 80% of the quality of asp for about $35. the old shrade is about as useful as a wooden stick, it bends about immediatly.
just tested it, a fill force swing against a basketball hoop pole will not bend it one bit, its called the shrade scbat21h. make sure it ends in h because if not your buying the old version.
Don't diss the old school wooden stick like that ! The old school is better than any expandable for actual fighting . The downside is they are inconvenient enough , they were too frequently left back in the car/ office / post / etc , when you suddenly needed an Intermeadate defensive tool .
the best baton is the bonowi camlock
if you can find one you should get one
those things are indestructible
+Gubby-SL When the Monadnock breaks that is exactly what I'm planning on getting.
it is the best money can buy and you wont regret this decision
also if you have any questions regarding german police feel free to ask
i will answer as fast and as best i can :D
+Gubby-SL You should make videos about your gear. I'm always interested to hear from guys from other countries and looking for vids to put in my "other Interesting channels" playlist.
that would be some pretty short, boring and disappointing videos
except for our duty pistols (usp compact), the cars (2016 mercedes benz c 250) and the batons
we are extremely limited and are only allowed to carry the stuff issued by our state
+Gubby-SL Don't be so sure. I was very interested in frenchcoppers' duty belt video. It is cool to see how the same job is done in different places and the reasoning behind the way different people select their gear. I'd watch it for sure.
how long are those they look so small
+Blayne Peterson I think they are all about 21" give or take.
Okay you see I have one of the cheap $35 ones from Walmart that is 36 inches which for a guy like me is about the right size
+Blayne Peterson 36" damn. There's this female Hispanic Officer at my work that has one of those super big ass batons. It is almost comical compared to her petite frame.
Lol well for a guy my size it's great
The " normal " ASP is 21 inches , but they are made in ( IIRC) four sizes - redicously small , kinda small , 21 inch , and jumbo .
RCB peacekeeper baton
Bonowi camlock.
+free field training ew, so many moving parts etc. Peacekeeper stays with the simple friction lock design but with added durability and kinetic energy (read:baseball bat diameter tubes lol)
I use the peacekeeper after switching from the asp/monadnock
+interpol007 diffrent strokes for different folks brother. I'd rather have the ability to collapse and store the baton as I don't always have the advantage of manpower especially in situations the baton is needed, Murphy's law and all.
Best friction loc: peacekeeper rcb
Best collapsible: bonowi camlock
Overall, if budget is not an issue, id go with a bonowi.
For now I'm using the peacekeeper rcb as my pocket baton for concealed carry in security.
I mainly stick with a straight stick baton and ring. Pretty good passive use of force as they can see that stick....
+FLippssalot an excellent point about the straight stick. Passive force is definitely a better option than having to hit anyone.
What about smith&Wesson??
+Clorox Bleach never used them, so I can't give an opinion. I don't particularly like friction lock batons though, for reasons I've explained.
nobody is out looking to use deadly force to unless you are a convicted felon ready to Rob somebody for there wallet.
this is for personal protection only.
I got my asp baton for 45 after tax 😬
Esp not asp hardened batons are cheap amazing batons.
are thoes 21in?
+Justin Clifford they are all pretty close to 21"
Just wanted to says thanks for what u do, u have really helped me out a lot with your videos,
+Justin Clifford I'm happy to help brother!
I thought asp batons were the best ones?
I'm looking for a good quality baton with a steel tip that is easy to open and close and won't fail any suggestions?
+91classicrock if you want the best friction lock go with a peacekeeper. They are heavy though.
+91classicrock you can try the asp Tallon, but I only know it from reputation and I'm not sure about the durability.
ba TON or Baten?
Depends on if you live somewhere that people say "Huh?" or "aye?"
My Instructors here in the rust belt insist it’s baten. Ba TONs are for cheerleaders, they say
I suggest worrying about how a thing is used instead of regionally specific nominclature.
Unless you are in Baltimore , where it is an Espantoon ( seemingly unique local terminology going back to 1800's .)
Extendable.. Expandable..
Tom: so how you doing Jerry
Officer: *completely destroys toms shin from the face of this planet*
How long have you been a LEO?
+2AverageJustins just over ten years now.
free field training Oh wow. Awesome dude!
+2AverageJustins yeah, seventeen years left!
free field training Oh wow. I want to become a LEO, but I really am worried about getting killed. Is it truly as bad as everyone says it is?
+2AverageJustins People say stupid things. There are as many diffrent types of police departments as there are towns. Some are exceedingly dangerous, like conservation police or working on the south side of Chicago. Others are statistically pretty safe, like working for a small, mostly single family residential suburb with a low crime rate.
The possibility exists to get hurt everywhere, but there are few hands on jobs where that possibility doesn't exist. My dad had friends killed when cars fell on them or body parts got chopped off working as a mechanic. I've seen guys fall into machines and die working at factories. Construction workers can get crushed, fall, or hit by a car. Don't let the big world out there scare you out of chasing your dreams. Without risk there is no reward in life.
Ahh yes great as well hard to come by though no?
Both are. But while the bonowi is a upgraded button collapsible baton design widely used in Germany by tens of thousands of cops the peacekeeper is a friction lock (with all the usage issues that brings with it) that is not widely used anywhere.
If I was going to go out any get a $300 boutique item for this purpose I would give the bonowi a go far before the peacekeeper. Just far more user friendly.
+free field training the peacekeeper is very close in price to most other major baton name brands. (100 bucks) and you can't extend the baton by pulling the end out with your hand instead of the traditional swing it open
+free field training in germany the bonowi is around 160-170€ and the monadnock is around 250-300€ kinda ridicoulus... Problem is bonowi has the strange policy to only sell to police and certain security workers...however the ASP Talon seems to be a viable option for around 170€ and no restriction on civilian purchase.
+Tue1998 here the bonowi is super hard to get and expensive.
Yeah somewhat funny how things are reversed concerning prices...by the way I love your videos because i am trying to become a police officer in germany :)
Let me help you..MO ... NAD......Knock.. .Monadnock..like Knock on the door...
Asp friction lock all day
between that 3 i would prefer the ASP cause the badass quality about the steel,but your monadnock attract me,you use that monadnock for years on bodyes and still is in that good condition?? so i have an ESP BATON,stronger and devastating moore that your brands batons
"Im not a huge asp fan" lol
+_American_11x_ definitely not their friction lock batons. I haven't tried the disc lock ones.
free field training lol. I was trying to say that it sounded like " im not a huge ass fan".... I would think the disc lock one would work better. And maybe close easier. But i've only had the $10 fake asp, so i wouldnt know
+_American_11x_ to be honest, for most people's purposes the fake will probably serve the purpose. I know cops who carry them and never use them. Their thinking is that it would have to be a pretty direct emergency before they went to stick so why spend a bunch of money? They probably have a point. I like the baton as an option a bit more than them.
....
Not a huge ass fan ?
oil
ma-NAW-da-dock? ma-NAW-dock? You don't need to be able to pronounce the name properly to give it an accurate review, but fyi, it's "muh-NADD-nock.
ASP batons are so ubiquitous that in some places, all expandable batons are generically referred to as "Asp's"
Ok so you hit a pole with the baton and it "bent!' Duh! Has a lifetime warranty send it back. Maybe if you really tried to close it ... you might have gotten it to work. Try hitting that Schrade or Auto lock against a pole and see what happens. Much worse than the ASP.
Don't think much of the review to be candid.
+Ken Cope Just my mileage, feel free to try it all out for yourself. It was really more an example of the difference between "testing" and useage. As usual, using something creates an entirely different type and extent of damage to equipment than a test. All of those batons, save the no name schrade possible, have seen extensive use.
Well Free Training, I have used those batons since 1985. My complaint with your example was the section on the baton "not" supposed to bend when you hit a pole! I mean really!
+Ken Cope I've never had one break from.
Hitting anything before that. They normally bend up when someone falls on them in a fight. Seemed odd.