@@lrworkshop The price point is Critical for the Grenadier to secede the first 2 years of production, UK Starting prices should be 5k less than the Land rover defender starting price and unlike the Defender the Grenadier should I only be able to spec 10k up on bells and whistles.
They listen to the customer who wants somewhere to lay their expensive hand bag and yappy dog - but I don't think they realise that mining companies, utility companies, armed forces, farmers etc. have way bigger budgets than Karen does.
P.S. I left Land Rover a 2-3 years ago now after sitting next to someone from Marketing at an awards dinner and realising that she didn't have any inkling of a clue about what Land Rover should be providing to its customer.
@@lrworkshop not in terms of development but I owned a few. The point you made at the end about Grenadier coming to find out how you use the vehicles reminded me of something. I once went to a presentation where these two guys were telling us about how they dealt with customer complaints in the field. They had reports of fuel system issues on Defenders at a safari. These two guys were over there for two weeks and the result of their investigation was that the staff would jet wash the Land Rover (shock horror) and water would get in the fuel tank through the filler and so they proudly announced that they came up with a plastic cover that clipped in to the filler area to stop water getting in. This isn't a fix, this isn't something to present to the company as a victory, this is just a jolly and a clear indication of the company's total lack of strategic thinking or capacity to properly engineer a vehicle.
Well said Sir! Was a real pleasure to hear someone that actually knows I thing or two about 4x4s dynamics and what true 4wheel drivers look in a vehicle.
Good video. As a carpenter, former 12 year part-time sapper and occasional off-road and rough road driver: your words make sense to me. The one thing you appear to have missed, is that: indicator lights, repeaters rear park lights and brake lights need to have proper coloured lenses with strong white light sources behind them, instead of multiple coloured LEDs and clear or weakly tinted lenses. Also, the edges of the front indicator lenses need to be at least 100mm away from the edges of the headlight lenses, to,ensure that those indicators are fully visible in bright noon sun, low afternoon sun and when the headlights are on. Lenses can be plastic as standard but a glass upgrade should be available. Indicator repeaters should also be mounted on the body rather than attached to mirrors. In regard to proper lens colours, Japanese makers introduced highly visible orange lenses in the 1970s which were different in tint from Euro/Yank lenses. Autocar magazine published an article wherein they explained that this was to accommodate the way in which East Asian people perceived colour. The fact that the new lenses seemed to work better for everyone except the colour blind was both a safety and production bonus. The recent trend to pale orange painted bulbs and clear lenses (along with side mirror mounted repeaters that you cannot see until the vehicle in the neighbouring lane has gotten slightly ahead of you) has led to more near collisions than I can recall, whilst driving our work tipper.
Wholeheartedly agree with you. Composite fittings may look great in the showroom, but are useless in bright sunlight, and also in rainy, foggy, or dark nights, when the dazzle kills the differentiation. And changing/fixing a broken lens is significantly easier and cheaper than replacing a multiplex!!
I still daily drive a 80 series Cruiser and I’ll never give it up as long as there are parts to be had. Grenadier is on the right track and I hope they stay the course and keep using end user input to drive their decision making and development. All the best guys!
Absolutely spot on about parts . Parts is probably the main part of the business not selling the vehicle in the first place . If you have a good vehicle it will sell it's self. Parts is everything.
Having worked in the automotive parts industry for over 20 years for various high end brands, I have always said,that a vehicle will sell itself,it’s the parts depts that keep the customers,and a well run/supplied parts supply system keeps the customers loyalty and repeat business,not to mention brand advertisement,
What a wonderfully educational and candid video, from someone who possesses experience and viewpoint unlike most. I hope the Grenadier folks work to meet his needs.
Wow, So true and so well said! I have had many cars in my life. Mostly german cars, because I am german. They all had their typical quirks and features but the old defender was the only car i really loved because of its typical characteristics. I would be very happy if there was a car manufacturer that takes customer requests into account, as they were collected in real life! Big shout out to Ineos
Preaching to those who will be converted. Love my 2a and rangie classic. New stuff leaves me cold. I need a new 4x4 for work and couldn't see it he new LR with a dead sheep in the bac and two wet smelly dogs in the front.
This all sounds like the process that Land Rover should have followed to make the new defender...... Instead, I think it should be called the new deflated. I'm really looking forward to seeing the completed Grenadier.
Some very good points. I have driven 4x4 in Africa (though never LRs), so I get this. The Grenadier has the opportunity for a killing here. Outside the big cities, Africa (and elsewhere) wants something that gets you in, through and then out again.
Yes!...What a refreshing point of view and I hope, like you that Grenadier doesn't suffer from self-esteem issues and shears components from the Toyota. That would be smart and good!
Those are great suggestions and I fully support it. I own two old Land Rovers In Kenya, and I was disappointed when the new Defender was released. I hope Grenadier works to create the ultimate bush 4x4 that we all need in Africa
I've seen plenty of Defenders from the 90s soldiering on in Africa. The Puma engine seems like it's been a mental barrier due to electronics. Will be interesting to see if a Grenadier with an ECU makes a difference.
Defender light switch placement is the best piece of ingenuity in the world. When the lights are on, it literally covers the ignition key meaning its virtually impossible to turn the engine off and accidently leave the lights on and drain the battery. Genius!! Good point about being close to the drivers door; leaning out to view terrain and wheels is a must.
I agree. I’ve been watching the problems emerging from the new Defender. This week JLR sent me an email advising the new diesel defender has been discontinued and only the 6cyl petrol will be available in Australia. Its time to supply what’s in demand, Grenadier!
all the replies involving Toyota's say how reliable they are then rave on that Parts are easy to get anywhere ,LOL the way you all talk is that Toyota's never break down so why do they manufacture spare parts.
@@chaquisa1 Agreed. What a load of nonsense is being spouted here. LC are great trucks, so are LR. Where I am lots of friends have LC ... believe me they break and when they do, the repair costs make both my and their eyes water!!! Several friends I know have had their LC off the road for months on end, whilst they save money or scour for a cheap second hand part! Also.. in the North African mountains of Morocco, the high villages all chip in and 'share' a 4x4. The only thing they will buy are LR's! Old Defenders crawling up and down high mountain trails, day and night serving the villages as a mechanical mule, carrying supplies or people . These trucks for the most part are held together by spit, gaffer tape and wire... most 'normal' people wouldn't get in one of those mountain carts, but when I speak to these villagers they say it's the only thing that works in their environment. The above will come as an utter shock to most readers on this thread, I'm sure... but as they say... just MY experience... oh and I've rode them all by the way. I hope the Grenadier meets expectations of these mountain folk, with a few creature comforts for us 'enlightened Western creatures' and hopefully the platform will do well!
Absolutely spot on! Mark Evan's I hope you are watching this, as a classic Defender man and engineering enthusiast I am sure you will agree with the points made in this video. Excellent, video Will.
Thanks John. I'm glad they got Mark involved, I can watch his 4x4 born again videos for hours and he's given the project a lot of credibility in my eyes
Exactly what I was asking for. Especially the propper spare parts supply (reasonable price and good original quality) and the posibility for every independent garage to get the repair information and parts they need ist vital to me. I pray that they hear what you say and take it to heart. If so, they've got one buyer more. (Disco II driver). The idea of using allready exsiting toyota parts is great. Didn't think that far. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. (Patric / Germany)
Thanks Christopher. To be clear, i'm not a fleet manager at the moment and haven't been for a long while, but I just tried to get my experience and perspective across
I agree with your wish list, many good points. Many of us actually want a non over complicated vehicle that won't die on us because a sensor is loose or because a computer is acting up. I'm really looking forward to know more about this new off-roader. Also, nice rant, LR lost it's way, fancy over complicated vehicles, not made for transcontinental driving or to work at the farm. There is hope, great job GrenAdier.
I whole heatedly agree with every all you have said, not often do I say this being an mechanical engineer and yes a lot is down to training the users once they have the best we can get, it will have compromises you are not able to cover every single part without this, but lets hope the compromises are not too detrimental to the vehicle.
Wise words backed by lots of experience - in this corporate driven world i think Grenadier is different and we may eventually find a company willing to listen to loyal users - in the history of vehicle manufacture i think Landrover should be awarded the medal for the company that actively discounted all suggestions and guidelines from their user base - today media companies would consider that sort of direct feedback a goldmine .......
Morning mate, after seeing that ambulance with the radius arm that ripped out the chassis mount , I thought you might like a few pics of mine get repaired, hit a 1’ tree flattened the quarter against the bonnet punched the radius arm through the mount and with a ratchet strap got home, then fixed the whole lot, I actually thought fixing it was easy compared to looking at any other car where I know I can’t fix because it’s all welded
Great job! I'm going to add my support for your video and say that INEOS Grenadier disciples such as yourself are popping up all over the web and hopefully the smart people that I think these engineers are, will deliver an exceptional product. The appetite for a true off road vehicle has never been greater! Let's hope that corporate greed will not make it's way into the company and ruin the good and honest intentions of the founder. We are all eagerly awaiting !
Thank you for this video. I am a Range Rover driver with none of your 4x4 experience and this is the first time I have understood the point of view of disgruntled Defender operators about the merits of the Grenadier over the new Defender.
Love the Luangwa footage - recognise some of the exact spots. And spot on with your points - its all about parts! I have been bailed out by the kindness of one of the very workshops that you featured "lending" me parts.
When you say about the manual on the app you need to have offline saving available on the app so when you’re in the jungle you can still see it without needing to rely on mobile data.
Agree with absolutely everything you said, obviously some things re fleet management not applicable to me, but they all make sense, I really hope they have thought about the parts and aftermarket aspects. Also for them to sell direct, vehicles and parts, would be great. I hope they watch this, if it's not too late!
Congratulation : perfect conclusion !! Just to add if I missed it between the lines : I would appreciate if the Grenadier has no electronic bus system that allows additional stuff only to be added if it works with bus system, installed via computer. I want to add the things I require (plugs, switches, lights, etc.) in a simple way. I've added e.g. a complete switchboard to the boot my old Freelander td4 for all purposes when we travel. So the big topic is : keep it simple !
As always great video well informed, its people like you and your employer actually know what they're talking about. So we live in hope they'll listen 👍
@@lrworkshop Clearly they have to recoup the costs of the new model. So i expect oem parts for them to be silly money even at trade, need active subscription service, the right original dealer scan tool (online too) and the sacrifice of your first born in order to do any work that is related to sensors etc (looking at you Volvo) I think LR have got the balance wrong , they clearly are chasing the premium end of the market, even with the 'commercial' spec in the future i don't think it will be basic enough. If Grenadier can pull this off then LR become irrelevant for the future and while sad its their own doing.
hi there. at last some one on my wave length, we have been shafted by land rover! all i want is series 2a style vehicle, easy to work on.here in england, and for other countries,.great video
We already know that it will have BMW engine mated with ZF auto. Hopefully it will be full time 4wd with open diff option in low range, like Land Rover. The axles are already chosen and made by Cararro who are big in farm and industrial drive axles. If they sell through BMW dealers they will be dead in the water. Those dealers do not want the working man in a hurry with his shite covered vehicle near the place. Far better offer the franchise to farm tractor dealers who have mechanics with vans, are used to carrying spares stock and work out of normal business hours. Who repair and return vehicles on account. Who have real mechanics not parts fitters. Dealers who have established reputations with good depot coverage over large regions and who know their customers and needs. Not BMW dealers. Or they will be doomed.
Huw Williams .An excellent down to earth comment, Off road vehicles require experienced off road vehicle mechanics , Not parts fitters , The other thing I noticed with this video and also reading through comments ,no mention of AXLE diff locks , which are a must otherwise they are not a true 4x4 .my personal opinion having owned and used series and defender vehicles since the 1960s is that the axles front and rear should be the salisbury type ,drive shafts and gearboxes are piss poor weak, low range needs to be ultra low for serious off road conditions or heavy towing capabilities . That's my 2 pennyworth.
Good piece, and I agree with much you have said, I do also think there should be a manual version, but indications seem to be only an auto, the only point I would question is I would like to try one before purchasing one and to that means they are going to have to have regional outlets, but to buy online is real point in the right direction...
I'm sure they'll do regional demos or events. Although if you're the sort of person who just wants a basic vehicle, and it runs and drives, it'd meet my expectations. Coming from a Defender, if it was slow, noisy and leaked I wouldn't care 😁
You've summarised it well. Ineos need to design a vehicle that the users want not what they think the market wants. I assume this isn't intended to be a high street tractor to look good when driving the kids to their private prep schools in your green wellies. But more a work horse that can take the rough stuff, but be comfortable to drive as a daily also. If they get the balance right it will be very cool and the whole world will want one.
I pretty much agree with your comments about the new Grenadier, and it looks like it will be what we wanted from the new defender. But in my opinion I think that Landrover actually missed a trick ; they could have released a utilitarian defender alongside the premium market version they came up with. It could have been reasonably priced, easy to fix, etc, but you could've then modified it to suit your needs or desires, so it would be like having a big kit , you tailor everything in it or on it as you go, and I would have thought they would sell more of these at a reasonable price, made even more money from reasonably priced OEM or quality parts, rather than putting their new creation out of reach of most people's pockets. Let's hope that the Grenadier pulls it off, even though I love my defender!!
Great video, spot on. INEOS have a lot of hurdles in front of them if they are to be successful, but seem to have been clearing them with aplomb so far. Delivering spare parts and after-sales support to customer’s satisfaction will make selecting an axle seem the easy part though.
Thanks Martyn. I agree it's going to be hard work, but it feels like they're trying to do things right. Some of their staff are ex-LR with a decade+ of experience. They get a lot of flack for going slowly, but I've gotten the impression that things are moving below the surface, and that is what has gotten me excited.
I hope you can send this to the chaps at INEOS, along with some photos of why, you raise some excellent points which are definitely worthy of a new company taking on board, claiming how rugged and reliable they “will” be, I’d personally wait another two years for them to get those things right, before it’s on the showroom floor to be bought. In my opinion the amount of people who want a tough, reliable, simple and comfortable 4wd would surpass everyone who’s ever owned a 4wd, especially knowing they have a reliable vehicle saves time, money, stress who wouldn’t buy it, it could be global domination
This is what we need here in Australia. At this moment there is only one 4x4 here, it is the Lancruiser 79 series that’s it. There will be a huge market for mining company fleet.
newdefneder is what the discovery should have been not the handbagcarrier they have made the disco into but im determined to keep my 23 yr old disco going for as long as possible
"Engineering Led. " Two words you want to hear. Very interesting video. I drive a 70 Series LandCruiser, sorry guys, I know I am on the dark side but hear me out. Lot's of the 14 thinks you asked for, Land Cruiser already do, in a fashion. Nut sizes. 90% or more of the nuts on my vehicle are 10,12,14, 17 or 19mm. That is it, that is all I need to virtually strip the whole vehicle down. The other 10% are 21mm for the wheel nuts, 32mm for the crank pully and 54mm for the hubs. Oh, a hand full of 8mm here and there. Parts. I can get genuine Toyota parts from the dealer for maybe 20% more than cheap shit from China. It's a no brainer. So my vehicle remains a Toyota rather than being slowly diluted into a Chinese 4x4. If the parts are out of my price range, and I can wait a couple of weeks, there are Japanese websites that give me access to the entire Toyota parts catalogue, with exploded diagrams and part numbers, who sell genuine parts cheaper than the UK. Using Toyota parts on the Grenadier would be an excellent idea. Toyota use outside companies to make their stuff, Denso, Aisin and others. Again, access to these parts is cost effective and easy. I don't need to say they are reliable, history proves it. I wish the Grenadier all the success in the world, as soon as you said they have been out to Africa to see what is needed my heart lifted. Like you, I have spent time in "Real Africa," not Namibia, so I know how punishing it can be. My hope is that the Grenadier outsells the plastic Defender and wakes Land Rover up to the fact that vehicles design should be Engineer Led.
Thanks Harvey. I know you know my LC video series. That was certainly inspiration to see how the "dark side" does it, and I was impressed with some good ideas on the 70 series. Things I put in the video I wish were in Defenders. My point being if they purely compare from a UK perspective to what we have here, i.e. Defenders, then they'll miss a lot of innovation and good ideas that Land Cruisers have. As you say they don't have to use Toyota parts, but the parts made by OEMs that go into Cruisers. It's the same for me. Once I heard they were doing "proper" research, I got a whole lot more interested. I don't think they've publicised this at all.
Hey Harvey, don't suppose u could list the websites that u referred to in the following comment "Japanese websites that give me access to the entire Toyota parts catalogue, with exploded diagrams and part numbers, who sell genuine parts cheaper than the UK."
@@robmacca67 Sure, no problem. There are a few but the one I use is Amayama. They have an office in Japan and one in the middle east. I have noticed that if you order from the middle east it nearly always gets pulled at customs so you end up paying 15% import duties so try stick with ordering from Japan. Type in a VIN number and it will show every part on your vehicle. Bloody brilliant. Megazip.net is another company as is Nengun. Same idea as Amayama but I haven't bought from them so can't say much. Most things are cheaper but a few aren't. Work out a list of bits you want because there is a minimum kg postage. Best to buy half a dozen bits as it is the same postage as one bit. Any problems come back to me and I will try to help.
@@lrworkshop Fingers crossed for the Grenadier, I really hope the can get it to work. What you have mentioned has given me optimism. Although I drive a 70 series I actually grew up loving Land Rovers. I have a cousin who has lived in Zambia all his life and we would meet up as kids as he schooled here. I would sing the virtues of Land Rover and he would always defend Land Cruisers. Eventually I went to Africa and got to play with Land Cruisers. My cousin was right, but don't tell him I said that.
I used to be a huge fan of Land Rovers. I detest the damn things now! 😂 I owned a 1996 Toyota Landcruiser Amazon HDJ80, it really was an incredible vehicle Off-road and on road! I am looking forward to seeing what the Grenadier offers...👍🏻☺️
Here is another "problem" I experienced when working on Land Rovers in the past. I was doing a V8 auto conversion and I needed 1 (Yes, just ONE. Ok it was my choice to do the conversion so...) stud for the alternator bracket. It had a coarse thread on one side, for the aluminium block and a finer thread for the steel bracket/nut. It was 4 pounds 80 pence per item. Expensive sure. The issue was they came in bags of 10!
Hi will.agree with everything on the video.with regard to DPF’s regening Royal Mail fiat doblo’s have a system fitted where the driver can do a regene using the brake and clutch pedals,so a system to get around dpf’s blocking can be built in.as for the bmw/Toyota parts issue-isn’t the new Toyota supra a bmw?
Hi Lee. Thanks interesting to know. Yes I believe the Supra is basically a BMW. The Toyota parts I refer to are the Land Cruiser parts specifically, which are quite straightforward to find in places like Africa
Ausi spec Hilux has/had a dpf regen button on the dash, I have a Hilux and it has the instructions in the hand book but is not fitted to U.K. spec vehicles. Regarding manual gearbox option the 6 speed manual ZF gearbox has issues with the 2nd gear synchro and parts are not available so a new box is the only option.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on grenadier Vs iveco daily 4x4.... Ok it is partially Apple v oranges but is still utility 4x4 Vs utility 4x4. One is more of a monster but it does have an existing commercial vehicle parts and service network.
Great stuff! I agree about the parts availability needing attention. I'd like to add that eliminate complex shimming and adjustments on wearing parts. Maybe introduce an option to rebuild parts but have competed drop in replacements for in the bush. I'm ready sad that they went for a BMW engine, I hope they can remove my doubts that the tco will be sorely high.
RD Flo :- Yes shame about the BMW engine, nail in the coffin job already. I suppose that choice was on the cards as it's being engineered in Germany by tech partner MBtech. As it's got a BMW lump in it, I won't be trading in my Defender 110XS to buy one anytime soon.
Over a million kilometres of driving in Africa, mostly dirt roads or no roads at all (no specially laid out safari track back then... just rutted washed away tracks), in very hostile conditions, and often loaded to full capacity, mostly in Toyota's with the exception of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, then it was Defenders .... added to that an additional 70 000kms across Europe and the UK.... as I wrote on Grenadiers Facebook page, reliability, usability and repairability are paramount, even living in the UK ... I have to say your video was very interesting and I agree with most of what you said. As for Landrover, they have tried for many years to get me to trade in my Disco 2, but although I liked their 3 and 4 shape, the engine reliability is crap and as someone here pointed out, breaking down with engine failure 1000 miles from home is no fun at all ... so I have hung on to an ageing vehicle and will continue until I find a suitable replacement...
I own a Discovery 3 TDV6 ,done 395000klm and runs like a sewing machine .Has driven out back NT Australia practically all its 15 years Will never trade that vehicle for anything else.Been absolutely reliable in some of the most isolated places in Australia.People forget how tough these Discovery 3 's are Cricky dick they have Ladder frame chassis with Monoque Body on frame .Tough as nuts mate .
My father bought his first Land Rover 88" in 1953 for the farm, now in Ireland, my son has a Discovery 4, a Discovery 2, two 110's and a Defender based Ag-Rover. Apart from fhe Disco 4 which only occasionally pulls a four-ton compressor. The Disco 2 and the 110s are used for site work, they regularly tow 4-ton compressors or Ifor Willams trailers full of heavy drilling gear and equipment on and off the road. We repair and rebuild them ourselves, yet we are not Land Rover enthusiasts or devotees we have them solely for their functionality. Having spent a great deal of time in Africa I suspect that the majority of new Land Rovers were either bought by government departments, the military or Aid agencies, the rest would be second-hand imports, in the absence of the Defender, the shortfall is now being taken up with Land Cruisers at all levels. Your wish list is just that and for me, the nail in your coffin is when you mention Toyota parts. All over the world people are trying to fill the gap left by the Defender if you're in Africa have you test-driven the Mobius made in Kenya? I have worked on a number of vehicle design projects and one of the lessons you quickly learn at a launch is never to ask visitors what features would they like, if you do what you finish up with is a camel, a horse designed by a committee.
Not necessarily correct. The Defender did not obtain any semblance of market dominance in Australia due to the fact it was just plain too fragile and unreliable! A few facts most LR boffins will contest but facts are facts plain and simple.
Well said, and they should have a team that listens to reviews of customers and have an open platform where Engineers could discuss or advice on problems experienced by customers on the field, unlike what land rover was not doing, not giving S**t about our cries over the constant breakdowns of their models, which is now a lifestyle to complain about the very expensive toys they left in our hands. Well Said Sir, i am waiting to see armies, construction, mining industries rolling over to Granadier. Heck even me, that would be my 1st Brand Newly bought machine out of every car i have ever owned. Have big ears to listen and hearts to be compassionate to a horde of loyalists coming your way. Big Up @Granadier, Big Up.
You absolutely nailed it with your arguments. Can it be so hard to build a vehicle for the off road? I really hope the grenadier will integrate your advise. No surprise there is a new market gap to be filled with the grenadier when Landrover f**** up with their celebrity weekend dirt limousine called "new defender", totally misconcepted luxury / prestige car, not a utility vehice...
I'm looking forward to seeing how this project develops. Despite being 72 and past my best before date I like what I'm seeing/hearing. I got rid of my 2.4 TDI CSW a couple of years back because it was giving me some serious bills to pay (Less than 25k miles) and, it was showing all the classic signs of LR Plague (turning into a rust box, despite being treated before it ever went on the road). Out of misguided Brand Loyalty I had a seriously good look at the new Defender. The conclusion I came to is it's nothing more than a glorified Skoda Yeti at almost twice the price. That's my twopennyworth, agree or not. This Grenadier looks very promising and very very appealing.
Excellent. I’m a hobby user of an old series Daily drive but not the work your talking about. Love landies but the line continues now with the grenadier. There is no workhorse landrover anymore. Hope they get this right, all power to their elbow.
What are the "toughest roughest" parts of Africa? This is a true question. I never been to Africa but i would like to go, one day, to the toughest parts (maybe in a grenadier... we will see).
There's a big difference across countries in Africa, but what I was referring to was a country where many roads are not really roads, and those that are, aren't looked after; where finding skilled mechanics is hard and getting freight through customs can be a full time job - bureaucracy reigns supreme
Been thinking on your videos and you actually nailed it! Ineos needs to piggy back off the existing Toyota OEM parts network. When you choose a 4x4 to drive into deep dark Africa you choose a car that’s reliable but also one that you know a bush mechanic has parts for. It’s crazy to think they not using a Toyota engine.
The poverty version would be a hit! I live in Colombia and due to the devaluación of the peso and the import duty fees 4x4 are outrageously expensive plus we need a rig that we can load up with bails of coffee and bananas every day to haul it out of mud pit roads. Yes please make a poverty off road version at lest with a rear locker as the only option.
Great, insightful video, just hope it isn't too late in the process and that Ineos take note. Agree, JLR have just produced another poser's wagon, totally misjudged & wasted opportunity. Fingers crossed for an affordable, practical UV.
@@lrworkshop My Disco 3 is now 15 yo .Never had issues .Most reliable vehicle i have owned and thats a few after 71 years and a bunch of defenders and series 1 ans II and Toyota's 5 in fact .The only one that did not break was 1976 Hi lux 2.2 diesel turbo.The thing is Discovery 3 are starting after 15 years to prove that they are an absolute unbelievable ,most versatile Vehicle ever built !
You had me at “Land Rover shafted us!”
😁
It's the car they should have designed
@@lrworkshop
The price point is Critical for the Grenadier to secede the first 2 years of production, UK Starting prices should be 5k less than the Land rover defender starting price and unlike the Defender the Grenadier should I only be able to spec 10k up on bells and whistles.
the voice of the customer, the type of voice that Landrover in now deaf to.
They listen to the customer who wants somewhere to lay their expensive hand bag and yappy dog - but I don't think they realise that mining companies, utility companies, armed forces, farmers etc. have way bigger budgets than Karen does.
P.S. I left Land Rover a 2-3 years ago now after sitting next to someone from Marketing at an awards dinner and realising that she didn't have any inkling of a clue about what Land Rover should be providing to its customer.
interesting.... ever work on the old Defender?
now? they have been deaf to the customer since 1958.
@@lrworkshop not in terms of development but I owned a few.
The point you made at the end about Grenadier coming to find out how you use the vehicles reminded me of something. I once went to a presentation where these two guys were telling us about how they dealt with customer complaints in the field. They had reports of fuel system issues on Defenders at a safari. These two guys were over there for two weeks and the result of their investigation was that the staff would jet wash the Land Rover (shock horror) and water would get in the fuel tank through the filler and so they proudly announced that they came up with a plastic cover that clipped in to the filler area to stop water getting in.
This isn't a fix, this isn't something to present to the company as a victory, this is just a jolly and a clear indication of the company's total lack of strategic thinking or capacity to properly engineer a vehicle.
Well said Sir! Was a real pleasure to hear someone that actually knows I thing or two about 4x4s dynamics and what true 4wheel drivers look in a vehicle.
Good video. As a carpenter, former 12 year part-time sapper and occasional off-road and rough road driver: your words make sense to me. The one thing you appear to have missed, is that: indicator lights, repeaters rear park lights and brake lights need to have proper coloured lenses with strong white light sources behind them, instead of multiple coloured LEDs and clear or weakly tinted lenses. Also, the edges of the front indicator lenses need to be at least 100mm away from the edges of the headlight lenses, to,ensure that those indicators are fully visible in bright noon sun, low afternoon sun and when the headlights are on. Lenses can be plastic as standard but a glass upgrade should be available. Indicator repeaters should also be mounted on the body rather than attached to mirrors. In regard to proper lens colours, Japanese makers introduced highly visible orange lenses in the 1970s which were different in tint from Euro/Yank lenses. Autocar magazine published an article wherein they explained that this was to accommodate the way in which East Asian people perceived colour. The fact that the new lenses seemed to work better for everyone except the colour blind was both a safety and production bonus. The recent trend to pale orange painted bulbs and clear lenses (along with side mirror mounted repeaters that you cannot see until the vehicle in the neighbouring lane has gotten slightly ahead of you) has led to more near collisions than I can recall, whilst driving our work tipper.
Wholeheartedly agree with you. Composite fittings may look great in the showroom, but are useless in bright sunlight, and also in rainy, foggy, or dark nights, when the dazzle kills the differentiation. And changing/fixing a broken lens is significantly easier and cheaper than replacing a multiplex!!
I still daily drive a 80 series Cruiser and I’ll never give it up as long as there are parts to be had.
Grenadier is on the right track and I hope they stay the course and keep using end user input to drive their decision making and development. All the best guys!
Absolutely spot on about parts .
Parts is probably the main part of the business not selling the vehicle in the first place . If you have a good vehicle it will sell it's self.
Parts is everything.
Indeed. I think there is opportunity if they learn from what has happened in the LR space.
Having worked in the automotive parts industry for over 20 years for various high end brands, I have always said,that a vehicle will sell itself,it’s the parts depts that keep the customers,and a well run/supplied parts supply system keeps the customers loyalty and repeat business,not to mention brand advertisement,
What a wonderfully educational and candid video, from someone who possesses experience and viewpoint unlike most. I hope the Grenadier folks work to meet his needs.
Thanks Chris
Wow, So true and so well said!
I have had many cars in my life. Mostly german cars, because I am german. They all had their typical quirks and features but the old defender was the only car i really loved because of its typical characteristics. I would be very happy if there was a car manufacturer that takes customer requests into account, as they were collected in real life! Big shout out to Ineos
Well done, even better said! Thank you for actually declaring what most of us old timers feel which is Land Rover 'shafted us!'
Yep, I have to agree. Everything in the LR lineup has followed the Range Rover, not the Defender. Including the new Defender.
Exactly and who wants a Range Rover. They’re a bag of spuds.
This was one of the wisest presentations that I believe I have ever heard regarding what a vehicle should be. I’m beyond words. Wow.
Thanks Martin 😁
Preaching to those who will be converted. Love my 2a and rangie classic. New stuff leaves me cold. I need a new 4x4 for work and couldn't see it he new LR with a dead sheep in the bac and two wet smelly dogs in the front.
It probably is. It's recently made me sit up and notice more than the new Defender has
Valuable insights. Thanks for sharing your experience and passion!
Man, I thought I’d never hear these things from anyone but myself. Great perspective!
This all sounds like the process that Land Rover should have followed to make the new defender...... Instead, I think it should be called the new deflated.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the completed Grenadier.
Some very good points. I have driven 4x4 in Africa (though never LRs), so I get this. The Grenadier has the opportunity for a killing here. Outside the big cities, Africa (and elsewhere) wants something that gets you in, through and then out again.
I guess the price will be the very important bit
Thanks for a great video. Let’s hope they listen.
Thanks John. We'll see!
Yes!...What a refreshing point of view and I hope, like you that Grenadier doesn't suffer from self-esteem issues and shears components from the Toyota. That would be smart and good!
Those are great suggestions and I fully support it. I own two old Land Rovers In Kenya, and I was disappointed when the new Defender was released. I hope Grenadier works to create the ultimate bush 4x4 that we all need in Africa
I've seen plenty of Defenders from the 90s soldiering on in Africa. The Puma engine seems like it's been a mental barrier due to electronics. Will be interesting to see if a Grenadier with an ECU makes a difference.
Copied this link to the Grenadier Facebook page 😊
Thanks John!
Defender light switch placement is the best piece of ingenuity in the world.
When the lights are on, it literally covers the ignition key meaning its virtually impossible to turn the engine off and accidently leave the lights on and drain the battery. Genius!!
Good point about being close to the drivers door; leaning out to view terrain and wheels is a must.
I agree. I’ve been watching the problems emerging from the new Defender. This week JLR sent me an email advising the new diesel defender has been discontinued and only the 6cyl petrol will be available in Australia. Its time to supply what’s in demand, Grenadier!
pretty much spot on ( especially when you think about how you can get genuine Toyota parts anywhere without too much hassle )
Cheers. It's been my experience in Africa particularly. The dealer network is wide, yet LR are hardly anywhere to be seen.
Not going to happen. If you want to use Toyota parts, buy a Toyota.
all the replies involving Toyota's say how reliable they are then rave on that Parts are easy to get anywhere ,LOL the way you all talk is that Toyota's never break down so why do they manufacture spare parts.
@@chaquisa1 Agreed. What a load of nonsense is being spouted here. LC are great trucks, so are LR. Where I am lots of friends have LC ... believe me they break and when they do, the repair costs make both my and their eyes water!!! Several friends I know have had their LC off the road for months on end, whilst they save money or scour for a cheap second hand part! Also.. in the North African mountains of Morocco, the high villages all chip in and 'share' a 4x4. The only thing they will buy are LR's! Old Defenders crawling up and down high mountain trails, day and night serving the villages as a mechanical mule, carrying supplies or people . These trucks for the most part are held together by spit, gaffer tape and wire... most 'normal' people wouldn't get in one of those mountain carts, but when I speak to these villagers they say it's the only thing that works in their environment. The above will come as an utter shock to most readers on this thread, I'm sure... but as they say... just MY experience... oh and I've rode them all by the way. I hope the Grenadier meets expectations of these mountain folk, with a few creature comforts for us 'enlightened Western creatures' and hopefully the platform will do well!
Absolutely spot on!
Mark Evan's I hope you are watching this, as a classic Defender man and engineering enthusiast I am sure you will agree with the points made in this video.
Excellent, video Will.
Thanks John. I'm glad they got Mark involved, I can watch his 4x4 born again videos for hours and he's given the project a lot of credibility in my eyes
What an awesome lot of common sense hope and pray they take it on board
I think you've nailed it bud, I would like to see the same sort of things from the granadier, love the simplicity to work on Old defenders
Cheers!
Exactly what I was asking for. Especially the propper spare parts supply (reasonable price and good original quality) and the posibility for every independent garage to get the repair information and parts they need ist vital to me. I pray that they hear what you say and take it to heart. If so, they've got one buyer more. (Disco II driver).
The idea of using allready exsiting toyota parts is great. Didn't think that far. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. (Patric / Germany)
Thanks Patric
I am really excited about the new Grenadier! I also agree about JLR! Also great list you have come up with👌 well though out
Thanks!
Great requests 🙌🏼👏🏼.... totally agree. // hi 👋🏼 from Punta Cana _ 🇩🇴 Dominican Republic 🇩🇴
Thanks for this, it was interesting to hear the point of view of a fleet manager who works in the ‘real’ world.
Thanks Christopher. To be clear, i'm not a fleet manager at the moment and haven't been for a long while, but I just tried to get my experience and perspective across
I agree with your wish list, many good points. Many of us actually want a non over complicated vehicle that won't die on us because a sensor is loose or because a computer is acting up. I'm really looking forward to know more about this new off-roader. Also, nice rant, LR lost it's way, fancy over complicated vehicles, not made for transcontinental driving or to work at the farm. There is hope, great job GrenAdier.
Here’s to hoping the Grenadier is all we yearn for it to be. I’m with you, if it does what I need it to do, I’ll buy it new too.
🤞
Great video mate, your experience is as motivating as your enthusiasm.
Thanks 😁
I whole heatedly agree with every all you have said, not often do I say this being an mechanical engineer and yes a lot is down to training the users once they have the best we can get, it will have compromises you are not able to cover every single part without this, but lets hope the compromises are not too detrimental to the vehicle.
you got my attention, u got me at: fixing my truck myself, even tho i live in a city. I just like 4x4's
Wise words backed by lots of experience - in this corporate driven world i think Grenadier is different and we may eventually find a company willing to listen to loyal users - in the history of vehicle manufacture i think Landrover should be awarded the medal for the company that actively discounted all suggestions and guidelines from their user base - today media companies would consider that sort of direct feedback a goldmine .......
Thanks Mike
Morning mate, after seeing that ambulance with the radius arm that ripped out the chassis mount , I thought you might like a few pics of mine get repaired, hit a 1’ tree flattened the quarter against the bonnet punched the radius arm through the mount and with a ratchet strap got home, then fixed the whole lot, I actually thought fixing it was easy compared to looking at any other car where I know I can’t fix because it’s all welded
cheers for sending the photos and well done on the fix!
Great job! I'm going to add my support for your video and say that INEOS Grenadier disciples such as yourself are popping up all over the web and hopefully the smart people that I think these engineers are, will deliver an exceptional product. The appetite for a true off road vehicle has never been greater! Let's hope that corporate greed will not make it's way into the company and ruin the good and honest intentions of the founder. We are all eagerly awaiting !
Love you man, right ot the spot!
For first time we might have a chance to have a word!
I WANT MANUAL, GIVE US THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE BACK!!!
Well put, here in Dubai we can't wait.
Thank you for this video. I am a Range Rover driver with none of your 4x4 experience and this is the first time I have understood the point of view of disgruntled Defender operators about the merits of the Grenadier over the new Defender.
could not have made a better list and with real background experience well done big thumbs up :)
Thanks Wesley
Great video...your website is an absolute god send for our rebuild...no more hunting for hours for the right part...so helpful
cheers!
Love the Luangwa footage - recognise some of the exact spots. And spot on with your points - its all about parts! I have been bailed out by the kindness of one of the very workshops that you featured "lending" me parts.
I agree with everything except the arm room! I want to be comfortable driving down the road with the window up!
When you say about the manual on the app you need to have offline saving available on the app so when you’re in the jungle you can still see it without needing to rely on mobile data.
True. A mobile website can do this if you build it right, although maybe an app would suits the needs, albeit it'd be more expensive to build
Agree with absolutely everything you said, obviously some things re fleet management not applicable to me, but they all make sense, I really hope they have thought about the parts and aftermarket aspects. Also for them to sell direct, vehicles and parts, would be great. I hope they watch this, if it's not too late!
Thanks David. There are certainly some good lessons to be learn from LR and Toyota
Totally agree with everything you've just said.
And yes the land rover team have shafted us all the the new defender.
Congratulation : perfect conclusion !! Just to add if I missed it between the lines : I would appreciate if the Grenadier has no electronic bus system that allows additional stuff only to be added if it works with bus system, installed via computer. I want to add the things I require (plugs, switches, lights, etc.) in a simple way. I've added e.g. a complete switchboard to the boot my old Freelander td4 for all purposes when we travel. So the big topic is : keep it simple !
As always great video well informed, its people like you and your employer actually know what they're talking about. So we live in hope they'll listen 👍
Thanks Garrett
Incredible and really cool, a car manufacturer who is interested in the customers needs! Not like others... And probably less arrogant...
Yes, yes, yes!!! The driver is the biggest factor in successful off-roading. Sadly I've been caught out at times, but that's fine.
very sound! I totally agree
New Defender is just a computer on wheels used to lock normal folk out of being able to repair the dam thing; the Grenadier looks interesting.
That's the creepy bit about ECUs and technology. It doesn't have to be that way, as it can genuinely make problems easier to diagnose
@@lrworkshop Clearly they have to recoup the costs of the new model. So i expect oem parts for them to be silly money even at trade, need active subscription service, the right original dealer scan tool (online too) and the sacrifice of your first born in order to do any work that is related to sensors etc (looking at you Volvo)
I think LR have got the balance wrong , they clearly are chasing the premium end of the market, even with the 'commercial' spec in the future i don't think it will be basic enough.
If Grenadier can pull this off then LR become irrelevant for the future and while sad its their own doing.
hi there. at last some one on my wave length, we have been shafted by land rover! all i want is series 2a style vehicle, easy to work on.here in england, and for other countries,.great video
Awesome vid. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Thanks Derrick
We already know that it will have BMW engine mated with ZF auto. Hopefully it will be full time 4wd with open diff option in low range, like Land Rover. The axles are already chosen and made by Cararro who are big in farm and industrial drive axles. If they sell through BMW dealers they will be dead in the water. Those dealers do not want the working man in a hurry with his shite covered vehicle near the place. Far better offer the franchise to farm tractor dealers who have mechanics with vans, are used to carrying spares stock and work out of normal business hours. Who repair and return vehicles on account. Who have real mechanics not parts fitters. Dealers who have established reputations with good depot coverage over large regions and who know their customers and needs. Not BMW dealers. Or they will be doomed.
Huw Williams .An excellent down to earth comment, Off road vehicles require experienced off road vehicle mechanics , Not parts fitters , The other thing I noticed with this video and also reading through comments ,no mention of AXLE diff locks , which are a must otherwise they are not a true 4x4 .my personal opinion having owned and used series and defender vehicles since the 1960s is that the axles front and rear should be the salisbury type ,drive shafts and gearboxes are piss poor weak, low range needs to be ultra low for serious off road conditions or heavy towing capabilities . That's my 2 pennyworth.
@@Christopher.C123 I didn't mention those because they'd already confirmed that it has live axles and diff locks
Lol...parts fitters. Yup, 90% of them in BMW dealers are just that.
@@Christopher.C123 Agree with you totally, no diff locks, no four wheel drive, low range needs to be LOW.
Huw Williams Agree with all you said , but why oh why did they go for a BMW engine ? Toyota or Nissan .
Good piece, and I agree with much you have said, I do also think there should be a manual version, but indications seem to be only an auto, the only point I would question is I would like to try one before purchasing one and to that means they are going to have to have regional outlets, but to buy online is real point in the right direction...
I'm sure they'll do regional demos or events. Although if you're the sort of person who just wants a basic vehicle, and it runs and drives, it'd meet my expectations. Coming from a Defender, if it was slow, noisy and leaked I wouldn't care 😁
You've summarised it well. Ineos need to design a vehicle that the users want not what they think the market wants. I assume this isn't intended to be a high street tractor to look good when driving the kids to their private prep schools in your green wellies. But more a work horse that can take the rough stuff, but be comfortable to drive as a daily also. If they get the balance right it will be very cool and the whole world will want one.
I pretty much agree with your comments about the new Grenadier, and it looks like it will be what we wanted from the new defender. But in my opinion I think that Landrover actually missed a trick ; they could have released a utilitarian defender alongside the premium market version they came up with. It could have been reasonably priced, easy to fix, etc, but you could've then modified it to suit your needs or desires, so it would be like having a big kit , you tailor everything in it or on it as you go, and I would have thought they would sell more of these at a reasonable price, made even more money from reasonably priced OEM or quality parts, rather than putting their new creation out of reach of most people's pockets. Let's hope that the Grenadier pulls it off, even though I love my defender!!
Great video, spot on. INEOS have a lot of hurdles in front of them if they are to be successful, but seem to have been clearing them with aplomb so far. Delivering spare parts and after-sales support to customer’s satisfaction will make selecting an axle seem the easy part though.
Thanks Martyn. I agree it's going to be hard work, but it feels like they're trying to do things right. Some of their staff are ex-LR with a decade+ of experience. They get a lot of flack for going slowly, but I've gotten the impression that things are moving below the surface, and that is what has gotten me excited.
Everyone needs to send this to Grenadier on twitter! Great video
haha! Thanks
Yup, Quite excited for the Grenadier, And if they can pull it off with the twin cab pick up.... awesome.
You have a pretty good list,
But I was wondering why you never mentioned anything relating to water wading.
it's not that important from a fleet perspective, plus vehicles are always driven deeper than the official wading depth anyway
@@lrworkshop what kind of fleet do you run ?
I hope you can send this to the chaps at INEOS, along with some photos of why, you raise some excellent points which are definitely worthy of a new company taking on board, claiming how rugged and reliable they “will” be, I’d personally wait another two years for them to get those things right, before it’s on the showroom floor to be bought. In my opinion the amount of people who want a tough, reliable, simple and comfortable 4wd would surpass everyone who’s ever owned a 4wd, especially knowing they have a reliable vehicle saves time, money, stress who wouldn’t buy it, it could be global domination
This is what we need here in Australia. At this moment there is only one 4x4 here, it is the Lancruiser 79 series that’s it. There will be a huge market for mining company fleet.
Yeah despite the 70 series being pretty good, it could easily get stale (or has already) without any competition
newdefneder is what the discovery should have been not the handbagcarrier they have made the disco into but im determined to keep my 23 yr old disco going for as long as possible
"Engineering Led. " Two words you want to hear.
Very interesting video.
I drive a 70 Series LandCruiser, sorry guys, I know I am on the dark side but hear me out.
Lot's of the 14 thinks you asked for, Land Cruiser already do, in a fashion.
Nut sizes. 90% or more of the nuts on my vehicle are 10,12,14, 17 or 19mm. That is it, that is all I need to virtually strip the whole vehicle down.
The other 10% are 21mm for the wheel nuts, 32mm for the crank pully and 54mm for the hubs. Oh, a hand full of 8mm here and there.
Parts. I can get genuine Toyota parts from the dealer for maybe 20% more than cheap shit from China. It's a no brainer.
So my vehicle remains a Toyota rather than being slowly diluted into a Chinese 4x4.
If the parts are out of my price range, and I can wait a couple of weeks, there are Japanese websites that give me access to the entire Toyota parts catalogue, with exploded diagrams and part numbers, who sell genuine parts cheaper than the UK.
Using Toyota parts on the Grenadier would be an excellent idea. Toyota use outside companies to make their stuff, Denso, Aisin and others. Again, access to these parts is cost effective and easy. I don't need to say they are reliable, history proves it.
I wish the Grenadier all the success in the world, as soon as you said they have been out to Africa to see what is needed my heart lifted. Like you, I have spent time in "Real Africa," not Namibia, so I know how punishing it can be.
My hope is that the Grenadier outsells the plastic Defender and wakes Land Rover up to the fact that vehicles design should be Engineer Led.
Thanks Harvey. I know you know my LC video series. That was certainly inspiration to see how the "dark side" does it, and I was impressed with some good ideas on the 70 series. Things I put in the video I wish were in Defenders. My point being if they purely compare from a UK perspective to what we have here, i.e. Defenders, then they'll miss a lot of innovation and good ideas that Land Cruisers have. As you say they don't have to use Toyota parts, but the parts made by OEMs that go into Cruisers.
It's the same for me. Once I heard they were doing "proper" research, I got a whole lot more interested. I don't think they've publicised this at all.
Hey Harvey, don't suppose u could list the websites that u referred to in the following comment "Japanese websites that give me access to the entire Toyota parts catalogue, with exploded diagrams and part numbers, who sell genuine parts cheaper than the UK."
@@robmacca67 google amayama or partsouq for starters :-) There are severalothers mind U
@@robmacca67 Sure, no problem. There are a few but the one I use is Amayama. They have an office in Japan and one in the middle east.
I have noticed that if you order from the middle east it nearly always gets pulled at customs so you end up paying 15% import duties so try stick with ordering from Japan.
Type in a VIN number and it will show every part on your vehicle. Bloody brilliant.
Megazip.net is another company as is Nengun. Same idea as Amayama but I haven't bought from them so can't say much.
Most things are cheaper but a few aren't. Work out a list of bits you want because there is a minimum kg postage.
Best to buy half a dozen bits as it is the same postage as one bit.
Any problems come back to me and I will try to help.
@@lrworkshop Fingers crossed for the Grenadier, I really hope the can get it to work. What you have mentioned has given me optimism.
Although I drive a 70 series I actually grew up loving Land Rovers. I have a cousin who has lived in Zambia all his life and we would meet up as kids as he schooled here. I would sing the virtues of Land Rover and he would always defend Land Cruisers. Eventually I went to Africa and got to play with Land Cruisers. My cousin was right, but don't tell him I said that.
I used to be a huge fan of Land Rovers. I detest the damn things now! 😂
I owned a 1996 Toyota Landcruiser Amazon HDJ80, it really was an incredible vehicle Off-road and on road!
I am looking forward to seeing what the Grenadier offers...👍🏻☺️
Great video. Your dream car is on production))) called UAZ patriot and UAZ pickup. Take a look at all of uaz family))) good luck.
Here is another "problem" I experienced when working on Land Rovers in the past. I was doing a V8 auto conversion and I needed 1 (Yes, just ONE. Ok it was my choice to do the conversion so...) stud for the alternator bracket. It had a coarse thread on one side, for the aluminium block and a finer thread for the steel bracket/nut. It was 4 pounds 80 pence per item. Expensive sure. The issue was they came in bags of 10!
Hi will.agree with everything on the video.with regard to DPF’s regening Royal Mail fiat doblo’s have a system fitted where the driver can do a regene using the brake and clutch pedals,so a system to get around dpf’s blocking can be built in.as for the bmw/Toyota parts issue-isn’t the new Toyota supra a bmw?
Hi Lee. Thanks interesting to know. Yes I believe the Supra is basically a BMW. The Toyota parts I refer to are the Land Cruiser parts specifically, which are quite straightforward to find in places like Africa
Ausi spec Hilux has/had a dpf regen button on the dash, I have a Hilux and it has the instructions in the hand book but is not fitted to U.K. spec vehicles. Regarding manual gearbox option the 6 speed manual ZF gearbox has issues with the 2nd gear synchro and parts are not available so a new box is the only option.
Great video. What about a system to handle water in fuel. It’s killing lots of engines in Australia.
I would expect they'd include it. LR had a sedimenter but only on certain markets (although never on the Puma)
I want three locking diffs,galvanised chassis and the body to be rustproof ( Aluminium?)
And up goes the price !!
Practical I love your insight
Thanks Hentie
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on grenadier Vs iveco daily 4x4.... Ok it is partially Apple v oranges but is still utility 4x4 Vs utility 4x4. One is more of a monster but it does have an existing commercial vehicle parts and service network.
Great stuff! I agree about the parts availability needing attention. I'd like to add that eliminate complex shimming and adjustments on wearing parts. Maybe introduce an option to rebuild parts but have competed drop in replacements for in the bush.
I'm ready sad that they went for a BMW engine, I hope they can remove my doubts that the tco will be sorely high.
RD Flo :- Yes shame about the BMW engine, nail in the coffin job already. I suppose that choice was on the cards as it's being engineered in Germany by tech partner MBtech. As it's got a BMW lump in it, I won't be trading in my Defender 110XS to buy one anytime soon.
@@tonypacke6954 guess the first conversion will be a nicely unstressed long stroke Toyota 6 cyl...;) I'm in...
@@rdflo6739 .Can't beat a tried and trusted reliable strait 6 .with plenty of low down torque.
Over a million kilometres of driving in Africa, mostly dirt roads or no roads at all (no specially laid out safari track back then... just rutted washed away tracks), in very hostile conditions, and often loaded to full capacity, mostly in Toyota's with the exception of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, then it was Defenders .... added to that an additional 70 000kms across Europe and the UK.... as I wrote on Grenadiers Facebook page, reliability, usability and repairability are paramount, even living in the UK ... I have to say your video was very interesting and I agree with most of what you said. As for Landrover, they have tried for many years to get me to trade in my Disco 2, but although I liked their 3 and 4 shape, the engine reliability is crap and as someone here pointed out, breaking down with engine failure 1000 miles from home is no fun at all ... so I have hung on to an ageing vehicle and will continue until I find a suitable replacement...
I own a Discovery 3 TDV6 ,done 395000klm and runs like a sewing machine .Has driven out back NT Australia practically all its 15 years Will never trade that vehicle for anything else.Been absolutely reliable in some of the most isolated places in Australia.People forget how tough these Discovery 3 's are Cricky dick they have Ladder frame chassis with Monoque Body on frame .Tough as nuts mate .
My father bought his first Land Rover 88" in 1953 for the farm, now in Ireland, my son has a Discovery 4, a Discovery 2, two 110's and a Defender based Ag-Rover. Apart from fhe Disco 4 which only occasionally pulls a four-ton compressor. The Disco 2 and the 110s are used for site work, they regularly tow 4-ton compressors or Ifor Willams trailers full of heavy drilling gear and equipment on and off the road. We repair and rebuild them ourselves, yet we are not Land Rover enthusiasts or devotees we have them solely for their functionality. Having spent a great deal of time in Africa I suspect that the majority of new Land Rovers were either bought by government departments, the military or Aid agencies, the rest would be second-hand imports, in the absence of the Defender, the shortfall is now being taken up with Land Cruisers at all levels. Your wish list is just that and for me, the nail in your coffin is when you mention Toyota parts. All over the world people are trying to fill the gap left by the Defender if you're in Africa have you test-driven the Mobius made in Kenya? I have worked on a number of vehicle design projects and one of the lessons you quickly learn at a launch is never to ask visitors what features would they like, if you do what you finish up with is a camel, a horse designed by a committee.
Not necessarily correct. The Defender did not obtain any semblance of market dominance in Australia due to the fact it was just plain too fragile and unreliable! A few facts most LR boffins will contest but facts are facts plain and simple.
Pedant’s corner. They were still producing the 80” Series One in 1953. The 88” wasn’t available until 1956.
Great list.
Thank you for that, loved your thoughts here.
Thanks Ian
Spot on Will, very exited about this vehicle
Thanks Quintin
Mines on order 👌
Well said that man 👍
Thanks Mike
The new "Defender" maybe supremely capable of picking the kids up from prep school, but i wouldn't want to throw a dead sheep in one and hose it down.
PMSL :-)
I like the Defender both old and new, eventhough I wanted the new defender to be less tech driven and basic
Well said, and they should have a team that listens to reviews of customers and have an open platform where Engineers could discuss or advice on problems experienced by customers on the field, unlike what land rover was not doing, not giving S**t about our cries over the constant breakdowns of their models, which is now a lifestyle to complain about the very expensive toys they left in our hands. Well Said Sir, i am waiting to see armies, construction, mining industries rolling over to Granadier. Heck even me, that would be my 1st Brand Newly bought machine out of every car i have ever owned. Have big ears to listen and hearts to be compassionate to a horde of loyalists coming your way. Big Up @Granadier, Big Up.
Great vid and great idea!
Why do you want the oil filter to be easy to reach from above? should it be "can" type or inserts?
So do we have GENUINE four wheel drirve ? I mean of course DIFF LOCKS in each axle and the tranfer box ?
Amen my friend, everything is true
You absolutely nailed it with your arguments. Can it be so hard to build a vehicle for the off road? I really hope the grenadier will integrate your advise. No surprise there is a new market gap to be filled with the grenadier when Landrover f**** up with their celebrity weekend dirt limousine called "new defender", totally misconcepted luxury / prestige car, not a utility vehice...
I'm looking forward to seeing how this project develops. Despite being 72 and past my best before date I like what I'm seeing/hearing. I got rid of my 2.4 TDI CSW a couple of years back because it was giving me some serious bills to pay (Less than 25k miles) and, it was showing all the classic signs of LR Plague (turning into a rust box, despite being treated before it ever went on the road). Out of misguided Brand Loyalty I had a seriously good look at the new Defender. The conclusion I came to is it's nothing more than a glorified Skoda Yeti at almost twice the price. That's my twopennyworth, agree or not. This Grenadier looks very promising and very very appealing.
GREAT VIDEO!
Excellent. I’m a hobby user of an old series Daily drive but not the work your talking about. Love landies but the line continues now with the grenadier. There is no workhorse landrover anymore. Hope they get this right, all power to their elbow.
What are the "toughest roughest" parts of Africa? This is a true question. I never been to Africa but i would like to go, one day, to the toughest parts (maybe in a grenadier... we will see).
There's a big difference across countries in Africa, but what I was referring to was a country where many roads are not really roads, and those that are, aren't looked after; where finding skilled mechanics is hard and getting freight through customs can be a full time job - bureaucracy reigns supreme
Very well said ..
You Should take over & be the New Land Rover CEO
lol, I don't think the shareholders would be happy
Been thinking on your videos and you actually nailed it! Ineos needs to piggy back off the existing Toyota OEM parts network. When you choose a 4x4 to drive into deep dark Africa you choose a car that’s reliable but also one that you know a bush mechanic has parts for. It’s crazy to think they not using a Toyota engine.
The poverty version would be a hit! I live in Colombia and due to the devaluación of the peso and the import duty fees 4x4 are outrageously expensive plus we need a rig that we can load up with bails of coffee and bananas every day to haul it out of mud pit roads. Yes please make a poverty off road version at lest with a rear locker as the only option.
Sounds like you have jungle adventures everyday Oscar!
Great, insightful video, just hope it isn't too late in the process and that Ineos take note. Agree, JLR have just produced another poser's wagon, totally misjudged & wasted opportunity. Fingers crossed for an affordable, practical UV.
It might be too late, but you never know. They asked people what they wanted 2 years ago but I (like I guess many others) didn't take it seriously!
@@lrworkshop My Disco 3 is now 15 yo .Never had issues .Most reliable vehicle i have owned and thats a few after 71 years and a bunch of defenders and series 1 ans II and Toyota's 5 in fact .The only one that did not break was 1976 Hi lux 2.2 diesel turbo.The thing is Discovery 3 are starting after 15 years to prove that they are an absolute unbelievable ,most versatile Vehicle ever built !