The Most Problematic Item In League of Legends...
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2021
- A special video today! We're gonna be discussing Goredrinker, and why I feel like there's a dangerous Catch-22 problem with that item.
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#LoL #Goredrinker #Mythic - Ігри
By the way I’m already aware of the proposed changes on PBE. I made this video like a week ago.
yeah its just funny timing thats all
and what do you think about it ?
Yes Vars-sama. Tell us what you think about the new drakes!!
:)
So I was thinking if you scale the active with bonus health instead of ad? Would cut down on assassin's damage of it, bruisers build health items so they will still benefit. What do you think?
"Did you know that kindlegem is the most gold efficient component in the game" - a certain Ross
The painter? Bob Ross?
@@hgjgjfjfmd If we consider Mathematically Correct Sett a painting, then yes
According to wiki, Kindlegem is 100% efficient
I like how i tried support Sett again right? And i never got why everyone went *exclusively* goredrinker on Sett until my eye locked on to a piece of text that said "increases ad based one the amount of missing health" and then i passed out reading *UP TO 15% BONUS AD*
Try the mathematical Sett build. You see how fucked goredrinker can be
@@samuelbonafe258 I literally would build Sett stride (after nerf and mostly out of habit and familiarity) and be like "ok but I still got a slow yay" and I tried goredrinker ONCE and was like "oh ok I see why people build goredrinker now" after healing for like 500+ hp and DECOMBOBULATING everyone with 1 W
It's not about the 15% bonus ad on sett because in teamfights you won't have the chance to autoattack goredrinker helps you survive after you W
@@chief_8213 helps to do dmg with a 15% increase in passive while at the same time exploding enemies and using his active to heal a lot. lol
@@gorgistanojevik3196 yeap , goredrinker + steraks + titanic hydra + mainly items with red in it hahaha make you have a 1.6 k to 1.8 k dmmage in one W but idk how sett will be now due the nerf
If you take gold efficiency from the Fandom Wikipedia, 1 Lethality is worth 5 gold, which I strongly disagree with. I cant tell you how much lethality is worth, but 10 lethality is certainly worth a whole lot more than 50 gold, considering Cloth armor with 15 armor is considered 100% gold efficient. I know lethality technically scales up so it isn't at 100% in the earlygame, but even if we go by lethality being 60% of armor lvl 1, you would still have lethality be worth 12 gold per 1 lethality.
Goredrinker still shits on lethality mythics, but lethality items aren't as bad as their cost effectiveness would make them seem.
If we use the numbers from Aphelios' passive (which was recently rebalanced around making each passive decision similarly valued in terms of gold - so should be a fairly reasonable comparison), 9 lethality is comparable to 10 AD is worth 350 gold. With those numbers substituted in, Duskblade and Prowler's are well over 100% gold efficiency. Eclipse is somewhere around 93% (omnivamp got hit, and the item's passive is decently valuable), but that's honestly not that bad.
Though the other issues are still valid concerns - the items don't really offer you anything you don't already have as an assassin. Plus, Goredrinker is reliable, gives you damage, sustain, and waveclear with a very solid build path. Plus, damage this season is high enough where you can afford to buy Goredrinker for its utility without really sacrificing your ability to kill people.
@@corllengatu On the Fandom Wiki, Caulfields Warhammer is consider more cost effective than Serrated Dirk, which if you play AD champs you will know the opposite is reality, getting an early Serrated dirk is so massive, Caulfields is only strong on heavy CDR reliant champs like Riven and Renekton, but an early Serrated dirk is still stronger.
The issue with Lethality legendary/mythic items is that its mathematically better just to stack Serrated dirks alone, like 3 Serrated Dirks costs the same as prowlers/duskblade but gives 30 more AD and 12 more lethality, which is worth a lot more than the item passives/actives and the 20 Ability haste.
@@Dingdong2730 duh, because a dirk is used as a definition for gold of a unit of lethality, therefore a dirk is 100% efficient
@@Duy23803 But it’s actually better than 100%, that’s what I’m trying to say
Gold efficiency is based on the cheapest item that gives a given stat. It has to be based on objective numbers in order to be useful, not on subjective or situational scenarios.
e.g: You wouldn't say the same thing about lethality effectiveness if you were facing a team of 5 squishy champs vs a team of 4-5 tanks. That's why objectivity is important.
"Do GoreDrinker do as much damage as Divine Sunderer?"
Vars: No, cuz ✨ This Item is Busted ✨
It really is impossible to deal with anything, look at viego with that shit and building bruiser: becoming a reset machine that lifesteals and melts tanks
I think it's more that the other items aren't problematic enough.
Imagine if there were a mage mithic with as much impact as goredrinker🥲 (apart from everfrost which is build by like 2 champions)
@@randomguy7854 I know you said mythic, which is totally fair, but I think that zhonyas is pretty much the poster child of "item that gets built by everyone". I think it's moreso about mages in the meta rather than their items, even though that's an aspect of it
@@randomguy7854 u literally have zhonya since the end of time and dark seal
When every item is overpower? *syndrome laugh*
then no one will be...
Bring back full power eclipse
Ohhh this gonna be good.
I personally think it's because all the other mythics are either not needed or lackluster, especially after many nerfs.
Talon for instance doesn't really need the assassin mythics, why go invis again or get a shield when you can heal etc.
Prowler's claw was the only actually useful one, until they removed the fucking dash trough minions
Prowlers nerfed, duskblade a pure stat stick with underwhelming effects, except on a few notable champs, like yi, and even he switched more to on-hit, eclipse a wishy-washy item that offers a bit of everything (except AH, which really hurts it imo). No wonder assassins go gore when their items are this underwhelming. I think only tanks have worse mythic choices, mostly because they have almost choices in the first place. I think switching duskblade and eclipse mythic passives, so duskblades gives pen, becoming the ultimate one-shot item, and eclipse, the item that wants to bridge between bruisers and assassins, gets at least a bit of AH
The thing is that this is what Eclipse should be for. But Goredrinker is so much better than Eclipse.
Shut the fuck up, he said all of that in the fucking video, Watch before commenting
Two reasons, exactly like the time frozen gauntlet+sunfire cape were built by the likes of Fizz and Ekko.
1. The item is overpowered in it's value proposition
2. The champions have their base damage so overtuned they don't need to build it, in order to deal it.
Goredrinker is just one of many. Shieldbow, Wit's End, Sterak's Gage, Divine Sunderer and Frozen Heart and Conqueror are all culprits to the everyone-is-a-bruiser meta.
Yeah conqueror Is so broken...sure
Shield bow is only problematic because it benefits melee just as much as it does ranged champions
@@wraith6233 No. Shieldbow is problematic period. Combined with Wit's End, even more so on ranged champions than on melee because those are especially the champions you expect to be squishy. Squishy champions just aren't a thing in season 11. Everything is a bruiser.
@@wraith6233 bruh, in a pure 1v1 sheildbow beats both kraken and galeforce even though they should have higher dps than sheildbow. It basically cripples any diver or assassin. Given the ad and lifesteal u get they have to kill u twice, but once they use their main gapcloser or lose their surprise factor it's easy to kite them out most of the time. So adc becomes unkillable unless they mess up badly.
And compared to other adc mythics items, sheildbow is just generally better. Kraken isnt even the anti tank item for adc, if they have a tank that's bothering u just go ldr. Galeforce is not easy to use when champs like irelia and yone are in ur game where they will either 1 shot I or will just simply follow u even if u dash away.
The only factor affecting ur decision on these items will be the game state, if ur snowballing hard and there are no fes assassin threats galeforce becomes good because it's a good mix of dmg and survivability, so that u can snowball hard. Enemy team has multiple tanks, not really anyone who proves to be a threat or can dive u, go kraken.
Tldr, sheildbow is to adcs what stridebreaker was to bruisers, removes the weakness of the class, and the state of the game with all its divers makes it even stronger. The other adc items are situational, and comparatively much weaker.
Bruh did you just say frozen heart?????? That item is terrible
I’ve said this in another comment on Bizzleberry, but I think Goredrinker’s problem needs to be viewed at a much larger scale. I’m sure everyone here can almost agree that the balance of the game is in a state such that items have become more powerful than champions themselves.
This game has pretty much turned into who has the better items and who built them faster. So many champions are so over reliant on one mythic or legendary that gives them power spikes out of the norm. And when Riot does nerf these items, these champions fade into non existence. Compare these to another MOBA like SMITE, where the items serve as slight extensions to a god’s kit. They DON’T single-handedly give them such OP or game-changing passives or actives that makes them feel insurmountable. Items can be built in any order and whatever you want and encourages adaptability to the situation/game at hand. Unlike League which has turned into “build x item first”. The result of this is SMITE is more focused on outplaying your enemies with your god’s kit, leaving room for skill expression and extended fights as opposed to your items overpowering every single enemy you face.
The items in League have turned the game into who can dump their kit on the other first and it’s getting to a point where I feel it’s unbearable. Almost all the time we’re scared of a champion not by itself but after it just hit a power spike with one item. Items have too much agency in this game and I feel toning them down can help stop such terrible snowballing.
I agree, I feel like it takes away from the skill of the champion as well. Some champions hits spikes later in the game but cannot survive until then because another champ gets one items and that’s it gg. Just like with kha once he gets his dagger he’s invisible all the time and unstoppable. I am a HUGE fan of the way heroes of the storm does it. You can empower your abilities but your choices will last you the whole game. If you’re doing bad and choose to go more Tanky with a specific character then you have to live with that choice. You’d have to choose between single target high damage or AOE lower damage spells and so one versus getting items that make you super strong without penalty.
The item rework was such a joke. One of their core principles was to "encourage more diverse builds", and how did they do that? Force every single champ to build the same mythic, always as first item, every single game. The game is more static and meta-heavy than it's ever been because everything is so systematic - champs rely on items for literally everything, and with the super limited pool choice, there's bound to be one super meta overpowered choice.
@@sugoidude7823
Riot: "we need more diverse itemizations"
Riot: "Here's 1-2 item that you must buy for every champ. What's that? You wanna build other item first? Nah, fuck you"
Yeah Gwen main item riftmaker is like 50 percent why she strong if the removed it she just useless
@@sugoidude7823 true. revert the items or a better solution, no one can build mythics until at least 3 items. change the mythics to be weaker in stats (completely remove passives) and rework items that take scaling (adcs should be able to rush IE again, im so fucking sick of the 3 item spike on every adc every game. its so stale.) then buff base stats across the board for every champ to actually encourage trading and not braindead 100-0 level 3s for one mistake and rework healing items to be a wave to wave trading tool as opposed to drain tanking irelia with just a bork.
then runes, conqueror needs huge changes as everyone and their mom takes this shit. even adcs at this point. id also like to see far more rune diversity, like adcs can take resolve primary into assassins and it isn't trolling, or you can build utility on carries (like old glacial, twin shadows) instead of being forced into damage every game (you just lose some dps). the game feels so static right now which is beyond ironic since we were promised "item diversity"
Tbh i expected mythic items to end up like this. I can hear Daenerys Targaryen's wheel speech when i listen to people recount this years various metas. Some champions will benifit from one item, but the ones that can make us of several will just pick the one that's currently broken. Side bar, why cant triforce actually be good again? I thought it would get better when it became a myhtic, but it still just aint good enough to be taken over anything else. Anyone who might be able to use it would be better off going divine sunderer
rip tones of damage
You answered it. It's not bad, it's just not as good as divine sunder.
this is why I want Divine sunderer nerfed already. It is too fucking op to allow the likes of Trinity Force out
Not Leauge of Legends theme but rather GoT i think if I try to get every nickname of Dayners i would get old and die on keyboard,it was so funny when Milisandre said all her names to Davos and Jon and Jon was like:,,ok i am Jon Snow"
@Al Daniel Jumilla my man. You take towers in 3.33 seconds with Tri on the gravedigger
There is one fault imo in the assassin mythic item inefficiency argument: Serrated dirk is the base line for lethality price, and it is REALLY damn good for the price. It is not uncommon for ADC:s to delay their mythic powerspike just to get the dirk first if they intend to buy the collector second major item
@@Allenbatallion Because lethality scales exponentially while armor logarithmicly. Quick example take a 50 armor champion, get 10 armor, get 6.66% percent increased resistances, getting another 10 armor gives you an additional 6.25% increased resistance. Same math but against a 50 armor champ, get 10 armor penetration and you get 7.14% increased damage, get another 10 and you get an additional 7.36% damage. They are just not the same.
Edit: forgot to add 100 to armor to calculate damage, resulting in numbers that were accurate for -50 armor instead of 50 armor.
no sane person buys collector second on any champ except jhin or akshan EVER. It's just a a bad idea
@@Smortboi20 samira?
@@Smortboi20 bruh thats a meta build on Samira Aphelios and Akshan
@@angpham941 so i guess samira too, forgot about her
Leguae of Legends overall has an Item issue.
From what I can tell by watching worlds at the moment, finishing an item is far more efficent that it used to be, which means that if you have that bit of gold more to finish your item upon backing, you will dominate your lane with that 400 gold lead. So one kill early on can snowball into a lost lane once you are missing those 400 gold to complete your first item.
I honestly do not understand why Riot gets off to making snowballing harsher and harsher.
They added turret platings which was a bunch of bonus gold you can get by even slightly winning the lane or getting a early herald and now they create items that could be 2 or 3 entire champion-abilities themselves.
it is more of a snowball issue than an item issue, Mythics are ment to be powerful items. If some one backs and buys a legendary its not bad. It is the same as getting ie or trinity or ludens or jungle item last season before
@@hwaryun7042 The snowballing is only that bad because of the items though.
And some champions still spike hard with certain legendary items like BoRK and Wits End
@@GameBreaker1055 I agree, snowballing is so bad because of the strength of items. Even some item components deal ridiculous damage. I vividly remember a game where i as viktor got a kill on Akali, crashed the wave and reset. We both came back to lane, me with Ludens, she with hextech alternator. And then she 100-15'd me with one combo where she missed her Q. I have the lead. I should be stronger.
that's a very good point
but at the same time, the reason why snowballing wasn't as hard in previous seasons was that the items sucked ass (aka the black cleaver situation mentioned in the video)
a LOT of the items scaled into the mid or late game and weren't as "satisfying" or "build-defining" to build
i personally like the very defined and intricate item system that riot was trying to work for
but by making items more specific in function, the harder they spike in or against certain team comps
however i do agree that there are now TOO many ways to snowball now (like increased solo kill exp and turret platings)
and i think that's because these were implemented before to speed up the game a bit but they didn't address the main problem which were the items
now that the items are fixed, these other mechanics are now excess and probably should be removed
tl;dr item system good because items are more focused on certain functions; however, that makes them spike harder
previous changes implemented sped up the game but did not fix the main problem of items being bad so now that items are good, turret platings and etc are now overkill
@@tatzecom also that's just akali bc shroud
mages better in trades but shroud forces extended trades which sucks for ranged :/
I think you mentioned the biggest problem without realizing it though you said it.
The problem isn't goredrinker, the problem is that assassins/skirmishers can kill everyone regardless of what they built. So of course they are gonna go with what gives them the highest chance to survive.
As you said, if you are an ADC and you build shieldbow you are cutting into your dps a lot, most classes if they choose to build a item that gives them defense they are loosing on damage. Now look at irelia. Oh she only has goredrinker and is 0/4 doesn't matter she is still one shooting you. Oh that akali is 0/3 doesn't matter you are getting one shoot.
As an assassin or a skirmisher sure i'm technically lowering my damage by going goredrinker. Doesn't matter, i'm still killing the target in under a second, there is no difference if i deal 200% of the target's hp or 150%, the target is still dead.
The lethality items used to be strong because getting them was the difference between 100-0 someone or just 100-20. So they were the choice for assassins. Now? Why bother you are killing everything doesn't matter how behind you are.
In this case goredrinker is the symptom of the problem with a class of champions, the item is not really that problematic in the context.
yes so the problem IS goredrinker, goredrinker gives too much dmg to assasins which means they can just buy goredrinker instead of their lethality items, also assasins can hardly oneshot anyone ever, that's why people build goredrinker on blue kayn, because he can't outright oneshot you so he will just fight you
@@Smortboi20 Kekw, no. U can legit build stridebreaker on assassins and still oneshot squishy champs, but Stridebreaker gives additional mobility which assassins dont need and the slow os useless, so Goredrinker is simply the better choice if u oneshot anyway no matter what u build.
At this point I unironically wish they would delete all assassin's.
@@EugenTemba sounds like someone doesn't have vision
@@Smortboi20 ah yes because all the time Assassins go on front line,its not like irelia can rip trough Frontline
A good fix imo would be to tie goredrinkers bonus AD to a certain bonus health threshold like Warmog’s passive so assassins can’t abuse it and assassin items give some MS and maybe do a mini Pyke passive where all bonus health is converted to AD at super low efficiency
Or perhaps tie the bonus AD to level like on Wit's End? Toplaners get earlier access to higher levels on average, benefiting them a lot more. Removes junglers from the pool, at least.
@@seantheimp most assasins are mid or jungle which means they reach that level just as fast
reduce the ad scaling and give it hp scaling? is that what you ar saying? unfortunately it already has is, missing hp remember? the thing is assasins doesnt need a big heal just a bit to survive the damage they dont manage to evade
@@ultimatesonic47 my idea is to have a similar activation condition to Warmog, which needs 1000 bonus HP for it to work otherwise it doesn’t activate, maybe have Goredrinker need 500 or something like that
@@josefarias5216 they will just build the night coat, first a slight buff to the lethality mythics and im thinking on reduce the ad of the passive of goredrinker or change missing hp for maximum hp (obviusly reduce % aswell) and reduce the ad heal so assasins dont heal, oh wait maximum will make it heal too much at any point of the fight, then reduce the ad heal and increase the missing hp
Items with active abilities are like having an emergency teammate who can deal or midigate damage at a moment u chose
Goredrinker does both so well it is meta
Might start building it on Kindred if they are melees
Is it that effecient on Kindred ? Considering her ult.
@@Kurtofon Tryndamere builds gore despite of his ult
@@khanhtrandanf9085 Yeah I know but he is also melee so he wants to be in your face while Kindred wants distance because she is ranged (generally),.
Out of the 9 "op meta" items showed in the beggining - none of it are AP.
Ah yes, the AP mythics
1: Luden, for damage.
2: Luden the ReLudening for damage, again.
3: Vladimir's Vladbelt 3000 (property of Vladimir and Vladimir alone)
4: "I have been relevant only two patches help"
5: Liandry's Funny and Interactive Item, surprisingly this one is for damage too!
rift maker dude
i know he dident show it at the fist weeks this thing was dumm as well had 2 reworkes and later he showes it too
sad mage moment
@@robertjobe5503 Yeah, on Akali and Mordekaiser. An ap assasin and ap juggernaut. They aren't mages (a.k.a, the class the item was made for.)
A simple way to make this an item for fighters would be for it to make damage and to grant life back based on health and not in AD, and to rework it's passive to grant bonus AD based on base AD like the old sterak did, so its all geared only and only for fighters, and to make assassin options more appealing. Overall, I still think that the idea of having "Mythic" items sucks, I liked it when I could just build whatever sht I liked first.
I'm behind everything you just said.
i don't really agree with what you said, as not many bruisers build too much hp so the ratio will have to be quite high, then it has the potential to become a problem with tanks and Sett
Sounds more like a tank item than a fighter item then.
@@decidueyezealot8611 only 2 tanks in the entire game scale with AD.
I mean you're not forced to build a mythic if I'm gonna be honest. I think mythics are pretty interesting and actually open up build options and help give players direction in terms of item builds. The item system is geared towards helping newer players and just streamline itemization in general.
As someone who doesn’t really interact with champs who would build this (I’m a support main and none of my friends play juggernauts or these assassins), I am actually wondering why, other than that it just seems to be the best choice in terms of overall value.
As someone who can play juggernauts (though I’m mostly a marksman player). Goredrinker is like giving every bruiser a 15 second Darius Q that has a faster cast time and is easier to land, it is also affected by AH which is readily found in many bruiser and tank items.
More a more math filled explanation:
Goredrinker heals for a percent of missing health, per enemy champion hit. If you can hit 5 champions (in theory) at super low health you can increase your effective HP by as much at 40% Pull that off again before you die and your 6,000 effective health (3,000 hp 100 armor) becomes 9,000+. Sure this is an extreme, but it’s notable for being possible.
In comparison. 1 point of armor is +1% effective health. You need 100 armor (equivalent to 2 armor items) to get that effect. Meanwhile it takes exponentially more armor to double your effective health again. 300 armor doubles eHP (effective hp) from 100 armor. And it takes 700 total armor to get another double. (The equation is eHP = ((100+armor)/100) * max health ).
So 100 armor is 2 * max health, 300 is 4 * max health, and 700 is 8 * max health.
Goredrinker is just a flat %increase that can’t be penned or true damaged through and isn’t affect by %health damage modifiers because unlike building health goredrinker doesn’t increase your max hp, just your effective hp. It ends up being multiplicative instead of additive too. Because the Ehp equation with healing is Ehp = (100+armor/100) * (max health + (hp/s * t))
Where hp/s is your average healing per second, and t is how long you were alive. This can be rewritten as hp/s * t = sum of all healing done. So healing 400 health isn’t just like 400 extra health. It’s closer to 800 extra health at 100 armor (a stat anyone can reach easily).
I know I haven’t mentioned magic resistance. It follows the same formulas as armor, so just plug MR in instead of armor when it appears to see how your effective health increases versus magic damage.
This is why lifesteal so easily becomes an issue if bruisers get access to enough of it.
TL:DR goredrinker is a really strong heal which can increase your effective health beyond what you can normally reach by health and armor stacking.
@@karabelle617 I dont really get it but yeah.
Heres my like
As a Kayn one trick, Goredrinker is just broken. 6-8 seconds for 1/4 or 3/4 hp back.
As someone who really likes olaf, is fun being able to heal more than the adc can dish out dmg
@@alex2005z and thats why as an adc main i played about 50 adc games in season 11
5:10 Slight oversight in properties, the Goredriker heal is multiplicative (or sequential), not additive. It means that the heal will be calculated in order of each enemy champion hit rather than all at once.
If we neglect the AD% heal, you heal 10%, 19%, 27%, 35% and 41% missing health for 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 champions hit respectively. Significant loss in effectiveness.
You always love to see a new Vars video
The way riot literally just changed Goredrinker on PBE.
This video can probably be on hold for a bit.
The omni-vamp instead of hp regen is nice but the extra ad being removed won't solve it. The base-ad change to the active is a step in the right direction though, assasins have low base ad since they are gonna have more ad than everyone in late-game cause of building pure damage so it won't heal them for almost 60% hp by hitting 1 person.
@@smugron1101 8% vamp is 80 healing for 1000 dmg. Negligible.
@@Kitusser Yes but I would take healing whenever I deal damage over a bit more hp regen any day.
Pretty good changes
No more GD on assasins thank god, and losing the AD on HP loss should lower it damage even more
Still, the Aatrox that press R then heals from 1 to 100 in 0.5s will still exists and haunts me
@@angpham941 Considering he is THE sustain fighter, he should be able to do that at 16-18 level and with multiple full items.
There is a possibility to make assassins quit gore drinker
Adapt assassins item/kit with lethality/move speed ratios and lower AD scaling.
I don't think that would work for anyone besides pyke. The reason is that would dramatically weaken them to be item dependent. Which affects their level, comeback from behind potential, it reduces their item pool and viable builds.
Also it just targets assasins they are not the only ones abusing the item too.
Or just make assassin mythics not useless for fuck's sake
Prowler's doesn't increase threat range for anyone but reksai since it doesn't go through minions anymore Duskblade provides a small increase in damage that's easily matched by stridebreaker for the likes of nocturne who want the slow or goredrinker for anyone else and eclipse is a tank buster.. assassins don't want a tank buster mythic ffs
Plus tiamat is now shit and they need the waveclear so ironspike whip is the way they have to go
@@asostheflowerforged8403 Pyke has lethality scaling because his AD scalings are absolutely pepega compared to other assassins. If you want to do damage on Pyke, you can only go crit/onhit, because Q has 60% AD scaling and E has 100%, AD and CDR do too little on their own and you completely rely on HoB to solo kill even a Janna or Soraka. Lethality scaling is a way of forcing him to build lethality, because if his utility didn't scale with lethality, you'd be much better off building items like Frozen Heart, Maw, Death dance, Deadmans plate, or again going full crit if you actually wanted to do damage.
I don't know why Riot just wont accept that 99% of Pyke players prefer him in mid and just balance him accordingly, nerf the gold on his ult(or at least dont give him 2x the gold per kill), don't give him higher base stats than Leona/Braum, but in return actually make building AD worthwhile, give back waveclear on E and make stat growth from levels a thing for him.
@@Dingdong2730 I agree completely, that is why I singled out pyke. They adapted his kit to forced him into a support role.
I love pyke and honestly do wish they would let him be the mid assassin he should be
@@Dingdong2730 i agree that pyke mid should be viable but they still gotta be careful with his wave clear. if the champ with arguebly the best roams in the game gets wave clear or even worse jgl clear, it could get really toxic.
Man ur videos are so good. Glad I found you
thanks for good quality content. keep up the good work. wish you well
Goredrinker is just too versatile. It's just too optimal in too many situations.
And Stridebreaker was nerfed to the ground (slow from it is hilariously weak now)
@@indrickboreale7381 I wish the dash was there in exchange for reduced slow.
@@mranderson2048 no, the entire item needs to be removed. it can't ever be healthy because of it's implications, it literally removes an entire champion subclasses role weakness. that's fucking broken and it's turbo abuseable on champs like nocturne who should be building assassin, not 1v5 bruiser
@@biggiecheese2004 "Yeah definitely not 1v5 bruiser" - Sett, Darius
Goredrinker was the item kayn needed to become more broken than he already was
Kayn is fine and balanced. (definitely not a Riot employee).
@@CataStudies Kayn is as balanced as Yone,Akali pre nerf, Irelia,Camille and Fiora
@@skinnylegend1542 yet they buffed yone few patches ago... meanwhile struggling low playrate champs are in the gutter
@@skinnylegend1542 yone is so balanced he needs buffs... Asol needs more nerfs though too op
@@Spatakioutis dont forget to hit singed as well! SUUUPER op with a 54% winrate with a negative playrate
It was really interesting to hear your take on the state of things here
enjoyed the video! this is the first video I have seen you talk about gold efficiency on and it's an interesting concept. could you talk about popular items that are super gold efficient? (looking at you deadmans plate 55% efficient)
Good healing, good dmg, nice Aoe wave clear.
Good clearing, life good
i think a good nerf/change to goredrinker would be to make the passives scale exclusively with bonus hp. Maybe the active heals 10% of bonus hp + 10% of max hp. And the passive gives 10% of the bonus HP as AD based on how low your hp is.
That's a good solution
@@carlosmedrano6868 Yeah, except for the active part though, 10% bonus hp + 10% max HP would be too much
That's exactly what I was asking for in comments.
Great video man
Amazing video bro, i know a comment from a random guy on UA-cam doesn't mean much, but the info, the text here i can just imagine how long it took you to make the video.. Keep up the amazing work you are a beast!
Appreciate it! :D I'm quite proud of my editors for visualizing my scripts haha
Has a good passive matching playstyles of champs and heals
Did you watch the video or just comment?
Kha Zix players need to stop building this in my games. They're useless doing no damage and go 0/9. Like why would you build this on the strongest single target assassin that wants to exit the fight with a kill as soon as possible?
yes, but i dont need a 4th or 5th invis, i get a 900 range jump after every take down and eclips sucks(%pen is nice). Stride braker was only good when the slow was 90%, sheen and critt dont work. So whats left? big dmg and safty heal.
duskblade still works vs mages and adcs but you dont need to kill them
It's not useless you god damn vex pfp user. Kha has a lot of dmg either way and you can't go assasin khazix into a team like Malph, J4, Akali, Ezreal because you won't oneshot them no matter what and you need to go for a longer fight
Most of the assasins work best if they build goredrinker they usually build youmuus first or get an early dirk because lethality is best when they have no armor. Other than that its the best item for khazix he gets a lot of ability haste and survivability. Khazix is more of a fighter than an assasin he can spams q every 2 seconds and his W provides sustain.
@@williamsmith6364 also kha r can stall for goredrinker active cd
@@Justpim19 Come to darkside of Divine Sunderer Kha'zix >:)
Vars i didnt notice how much your channel has grown, a month or 2 ago you you had maybe 20k subscribers now its 108k
The BG track is called "Wretched Weaponry" if I'm not mistaken. Very fitting.
I do like the new items but I think mythic items make it kind of boring, having to build these every game suffocates a lot of experimentation.
i agree
for example i played galio and saw only 2 options: 70% rocketbelt, 30% night harvester
i was like "where are other ap mythics" and then realized theres rift for juggernauts and mage mythics
rito pls add more unique options for teamfight orientated playstyles
riot hates having fun, they consider you a worthless scumbag if you are not playing in esports, they ONLY care about esports and they hate offmeta and fun shit (like twisted treeline)
@@Smortboi20 you say this like anyone was actually playing twisted treeline, i personally miss dominion, but no one played it and it was filled with bots
@@oniuserjh twisted treeline was pretty good. Riot removed it because of bots AS IF bots aren't on sr now
@@oniuserjh I use to use dominion to train my new friends how to have map awareness
Crazy how all these constant adjustments makes it feel like we’re still in pre-season
this is what happens when you release 10 busted items at the same time and nerf one of them every month or so
You underrated the old phage it gaves you through the ms one of the best laning Spikes on a part item for a ad bully though
I think if they moved some of the damage from the item to the item passive and buffed the assassin items slightly it would discourage assassins from building it
Buff assassin items??¿
@@pernod420 the mythics
to fix goredrinker it must first reward bruisers more than other classes. How?
less ad
more ad per missing %hp or extra scaling with max hp
less heal per ad
more heal per missing %hp or bonus hp
This might make fighters and assassins even tankier.
I played against a fed riven earlier, my entire team collapsed into her goredrinker range, she pressed 1 button and it was like we never even hit her, I hate goredrinker with a passion, I hope it gets nerfed so had that it's never picked again.
Build antiheal
@@basalt8151 Nice joke, anitheal is nonexistent this season.
@@TheMolabola For healer supports it's too much, 800 gold to give 40% anti heal, means everyone can build it before they can even buy Tier 2 boots, but then the problem is that the healing from items like Gore Drinker or Divine sunderer is so high that they can survive past the GW. Anti heal/Anti shield hurts enchanters a ton, but often barely effects the bruisers like Riven, Fiora, Aatrox, that or it hurts them and cripples supports
No one is going to play soraka, if you can barely heal 1 person in a team fight, you'd just go someone like brand or lux or someone with damage.
High healing -> High Grievous Wounds -> enchanters/supports suffer
And champions that rely on healing but don't have crazy values also suffer since they have to build the op healing items to survive
@@saintpres4ge533 dude aatrox that has grievous wounds deals like 80
@@checkthebush6500 Aatrox passive: INNATE: Aatrox periodically empowers his next basic attack to gain Range icon.png 50 bonus range and deal 5% − 12% (based on level) of the Health icon.png target's maximum health as bonus physical damage, capped at 100 against Monster icon.png monsters.
Aatrox Heal power icon.png heals for 100% of the post-mitigation damage dealt, reduced to 25% against Minion icon.png minions.
E Passive: PASSIVE: Aatrox Heal power icon.png heals for a percentage of the non-Brand Blaze.png persistent post-mitigation damage he deals against enemy champions, increased during World Ender World Ender. 20 / 22.5 / 25 / 27.5 / 30%
If he had no items that give healing or bonus to healing, GW destroys his sustain
wow i love this camera panning thing in a moment I wasn't even listening too what u where saying just watching the fights xD
Could add a tag to items based on the type of item that they are. Then create a conditional that requires certain item types to receive the full effect of the mythic. This way you could limit the items usage to champions who work effectively with a bruiser build and running it on assassins would have diminishing returns due to the activation requirements.
The main reason why so many assassin items seem so gold inefficient is because the item that Lethality's gold value is derived off is so insanely gold efficient.
Serrated Dirk is a 1.1k gold item with 30 AD and 10 Lethality, AD is 35 gold per point, derived from Longsword, which leaves Lethality at a theoretical 5 gold per point. But imagine if you every assassin could START the game with 100 lethality using 500 starting gold.
Gold efficiency is derived from the assumption that Common/Epic tier items are approximately 100% gold efficient since they generally don't have massively game changing passives.
IIRC Riot has stated that Lethality's true gold value per point is somewhere around 40-50 gold, thus "fixing" the gold inefficiency of assassin items.
I drink water thank you very much
I’ve been rocking Goredrinker on Shyvana all season. Along with Ravenous Hydra. I’ve not been disappointed
Love your videos as always. Would you consider a video on AP bruisers updated to the item rework? I think a lot of people were hopeful for better AP bruiser itemization before preseason, but the manifestation is kinda "meh" it seems.
An easy solution would be doing what World of Warcraft did: Only allow clases to buy the items they are supposed to be buying, and don't let them buy the ones they should not be buying. Makes balancing much easier, and removes troll builds from the game. Nobody wants to have an AD janna in their team, nor an AP Xin Zhao, nor a tank yumi
Goredrinker plus Steraks literally makes you unkillable change my mind
The moonstone renewer vid was the first vid I watched with this channel
maybe a (or all idk) assassin mythic that gives you ad/cd/ms/idk? based on lethality (say 3 ad per lethality +1 every legendary), I imagine this could turn out to be a problem too so idk.
There's a way to fix the problem of overloaded items easily
Removing mythic items.
S9 and S10 were actually good
Give assasings lethality scaling on some abilities and tweak accordingly
Problem solved
Trinity Force will always hold a special place in my heart for carrying Garen before his mini rework and being my goto pick for Predator Garen for the ramping damage, movement speed on hit for stick potential and being just overall really good at taking towers
also sheen proc hehe
Now trinity force is there for dumbass Ezreals in my team that don't realize it's JUST a WORSE divine sunderer
@@Smortboi20 sadly the truth, lol
remind me about the old stridebreaker have lots of people using, then divine sunderer, then now goredrinker
"the item system overhaul has been probably the best preseason change" What a good joke. It's the most toxic change ever introduced to league. There's way too much damage and healing in the game now, it's ridiculous.
The change Goredrinker needs is to incorporate the “max hp” stat or “bonus health stat” as part of it’s goredrinker active heal % amount (in addition to a now lowered AD ratio).
This change would mean goredrinker will shift back to being on who it should be on, higher hp bruisers who want both a bit of HP but also build AD. This change keeps the goredrinker path unviable for assassins like blue form Kayn.
First persona OST now Nier, damn my dude you got some fine taste.
5:07 Not sure if you correct this later in the video but just on a sidenote, it's not 50%. Goredrinker heal is now on diminishing returns, meaning the first enemy will heal for 10% missing health, the second one for 10% of the remaining health. It's still the same heal if you hit one enemy but a lot less the more you hit. Kinda sad as before getting hits on multiple enemies could heal you pretty good.
What is the music in the background of the video?
Maybe it could be more in the tank oriented part, the problem is the damaged, but you can keep the healing, and reduce the ad. Champs like Darius usually dont need to build damaged, becaused they have a passive that helpd him with this, same with olaf, or aatrox. If you kill the damaged part, assassin will not build it, and if you give it a more tank stats in return, bruisers msy find it a good option
Considering that there is overall way to much dmg in the game this will simply "remove" goredrinker from the game since u will be blown up before others can blow u up.
Bruisers are in a very stupid place to be in right now. Its a class that is suposed deal sustain dmg and sustain thru extented fights. In other words. The class does not fit the game in it current BURST THE FUCK OUT OF EVERYONE META. And keep in mind that pretty much the only top lane mains that are left in the game are bruiser players. People will simply quit if on top of ur lane bein shit (yes, top lane is by far the worst lane to play starting in high plat) and the item u can build are shit.
But I agree that there should a tank-ish mythic option for bruisers. Something like old Deaths Dance (with MR and Armor), but swap the omnivamp for 200 HP with an mythic passive like Shieldbow has (5AD + 50HP per item build) and bang, a lot of bruisers would have a viable mythic alternative.
thank you for sharing
Item has good stats,strong passive,active helps with waveclear,stacking conq,deals good aoe damage and heals for a massive chonk of hp
What do you think about lowering goredrinkers hp from 400 to 300 (would either have to change build path, or lower phage and kindlegem hp by 50 an cost by 135, moving that hp an cost onto the upgrade of other items), and 25% AD heal to 20% as nerfs? remove 150% hp regen, lower ability haste from 20 to 10?
Can u make a whole vid on all legendary & mythic gold efficiency? According to wiki the most gold efficient build for non support is hullbreaker at 198%, warmogs at 430% + 30% per other 100 HP, everfrost at 118% + 10% per legend item (max 169), nashors tooth at 143% + 16.6% per other 100 ap, mejai's (238% max), rabadons at 98% + 21% per other 100 ap. hullbreaker + 30% additional (if built first to activate warmog pass) to warmog, everfrost 75% to warmog, mejai + 30% to warmog. elixer of sorcery is the most efficient potion at 397%.
In my opinion "Moonstone" need buff of 20 AP (420 gold, 17% eff this item) more since it is mythic and "Ardent" is legend with 60 AP, an it gold efficiency is 97.5% b4 stacks. "Ardent" is 374% efficient, "Staff FW" is 421.5% efficient.
No idea why more ADC did not exploit stride breaker. It was ad with a 400 unit dash. That was about as far as much auto attack. And instead of 4 minutes like gale force, it was every 20-30 seconds? The utility alone was worth it but also if you are shoving a lane uncontested you can stand right next to minions, and clear. Or for some ADC who get close (and were only allowed to dash to enemies) it was a good option. People thought I was nuts but 400 units was easily enough to dodge most skill shots as well. That was from the center of the circle. I would not be surprised to see more things that have different stats for ranged vs. melee.
I was playing around with the 3 hit systems. There are many think about this Kracken slayer, Electrocute, Vayne silver bolt, Phantom dance (4 hits), Ginsoos after 2-4th attack you are pumping out a ton of true damage that can not b itemized against. Also kind of broken.
laughs in triforce black cleaver combo in darius
i only dont build prowlers cause idk if that bug where the 15% dmg amplifier doesnt apply is still there
one of my favourite videos of yours. more item videos and future problems are such an amazing topic that riot will hopefully not fail with. also items that dont get used alot anymore and why riot wont try to resurrect them as often as shutting down new popular items as much. Stormrazor. eclipse. frozen heart. randuins. ardent sensor. redemption. anathenas chains. as well as champions that dont see much play. Swain. he used to be an AP top laner option like morde with healing as his main identity. then reworked to be a mid laner mage general/close up damage dealer. now he is only played bot lane usually support... did riot fail with swain. he is a cool champ. but what is his role in the team. why cant i play him anymore... without it being kinda troll. Lissandra and velkoz also apply. braum, sona. are the champions jsu getting out classed. and why hasnt riot done much to keep them relevent and even when they do. it isnt enough. Viktor's rework was probably the most recent and most impactful version of riot helping a dying champ. but they always seem to make sure to buff Darius every few patches. why does darius get the spotlight when more champs like amumu and skarner needed more help.
Vars I love your content and keep up the amazing work but for the love of god please look into running a De-esser over your voice dialogue
I for one always build Prowlers on Talon so I can get the melee Q and Duskblade on Kha'Zix to reset passive and basically get more ult. Of course I haven't played Talon in countless patches and only play Kha'Zix for fun.
I think the easy answe would be to buff the other items in terms of utility so you can tune down the unnecessary amount of value most AD users will get from Goredrinker. It needs more of a niche rather than being a one stop shop for everything.
Certainly eclipse and trinity force could use the buffs.
I loved rushing Titanic on Kled. It gave me the auto reset for that easy remount
I heared from Terenas (an Italian caster, youtuber and streamer) that probabily a good solution would be putting lethalitlty scaling on assassins. Do you think this would be a good idea?
I do remember you saying that the problem some stuff is that if everyone does have it then it wouldn't be balanced. So what if they just added a new item class that doesn't go towards any specific role and dump goredrinker there along with some other items that would be beneficial for most roles
Great idea.
I think the best path would be to tit would be to tie core drinker scaling to health. In other words it needs to scale linearly with missing health and not based on a percent. So you need to build health to safely maximize it's effectiveness.
The Nier Automate soundtrack is just a cherry on top
Going back to this video, interesting how most of the assassins who used Goredrinker now pivoted to Eclipse.
My change to stride breaker would be, there is 2 charges, with 90s cd, if you usw qith 2 charges you will dash and empower aoe slow, if you only have 1 you would only aoe slow
What if you remove the ability haste? Could that help?
there are items with the passive being nerfed for ranged champs
why dont they make goredrinker nerfed for assassins?
I was thinking the same thing like give it minus 20 lethality or something
Dude i just saw an ANNIE BULDING GOREDRINKER for real!! WTF
Nice nier music. Have you played replicant or only automata
I had this game where j4 top wukong jg and irelia mid all went goredrinker and just nvr died even though we were ahead. They just lived forever when their Ezreal who we could nvr reach bcuz they dived into us kept dpsing in the backline just totally insane
Even professor Akali just released a video on goredrinker akali
A lot of what makes goredrinker appealing also has a LOT to do with making combos feel way smoother, and Ironspike meeting the same need that Tiamat filled with its waveclear. Tiamat was such a prevalent component item on so many assassins, and the only reason the Hydras didn't meet the same standard of use had to do with how bad both items were for Assassins. However, with Goredrinker offering what is basically Tiamat Active WITH Cooldown Reduction, its no surprise that it becomes popular with assassins, all of whom can consider CDR extremely important, as it either: A, allows them to reach another combo to kill someone else, and B, to be able to use their many mobility options outside of direct combat, and still have the very same abilities come up as fights break out.
Youmuu's is a good example of how valuable CDR is to Assassins, where they had to revert its changes just to convince people to pick it up again.
And also, if you'd like to point out that Stridebreaker exists, and yet assassins still prefer Gore, I will point you to the mythic passive. More Mobility =/= More CDR. There simply isn't a better alternative that gives the same smooth activation of an assassin's play conditions, while also giving them stats that are very valuable to them. Note that only 2 other CDR items exist for Assassins, and one is mainly used by junglers and AD supports, since it doesn't provide as much damage as everything else. (Duskblade doesn't give waveclear despite giving CDR, hence why Gore is still better)
Knowing all of that, the tankiness--a major cause of the rising issues--doesn't even have to come in consideration to tell anyone that Goredrinker is better than all the mythics Assassins got.
easy fix.... u can swamp titanic hydra and gore drinker passive and stats and numbers in between since gore drinker is the new titanic hydra but WAY more solid than old titanic.
titanic gives bonus ad per hp... gores gives a regen we can make the regen to titanic and the bonus ad per hp to gore with the caveat of old warmogs, meaning u need to pass a x amount of hp to activate the passive (forcing assassins' and such to forfeit dmg for tank items)
the other solution is to increase the ad per lower hp, meaning that assassins' and such will get a weak 10 to 15 ad bonus at 80 to 60% hp but if u manage to go 15 to 25% u get a whooping 55 to 70 ad bonus scaling (numbers can be fixed later on, this is to provide idea)
the other solution is to make is so that the passive and such is more powerful after x amount of time in champ fight like rift maker. this will then make the item a hybrid of bruiser tank, giving the bonus ad to the longer you fight but the lower hp u go the more resistances you get and the heal you get is a sum between resistance and ad, the regen goes from 75% to 100% to 150% being the max
They could add something like the warmogs requirement (you must have x amount of hp)
i see you with the nier music :eyes:
Since most assassins go gore and to a lethality item wouldn't it make sense to just nerf gore healing based on lethality? Or lower the wave clear and make stride a wave clear item? Or maybe lowering it's stats or adjusting it so it doesn't cripple the main users of it? Idk it feel like the item can't really be healthy for the game.
I think it starts with some nerfs to some of the abusers like Talon and Kha zix followed by some buffs and or reworks to Assassin mythics. Idk maybe a slight nerf to the healing you get from gore but other than that I'm happy with S11 item system.
5:07 didn't they give it a change to reduce the amount of healing you get subsequently per champion hit? like on patch 11.2 or something?
Nope that change was to Steraks
Tbf, I have felt since this season that healing and lifesteal items have been busted since the beginning. So many AD's running lifesteal items as they're so abundant right now and grievous wounds helps next to nothing if you have an bruiser with suddenly 3 life steal items.
What is the music used in the video?
"League of lifesteal" has been my go to phrase when I play
Do you think it's now time to make lethality a melee only stat (or at least nerf lethality for ranged)? Lethality items have a record of getting nerfed due to ranged champions using them too well IMO.
Great video but I don’t think you can judge assassin items by gold efficiency because of how lethality efficiency is calculated , Dirk is just wildly “efficient” as a lethality item, but it is also used as the baseline, and I think because the maths it works out as like 50 gold for 10 lethality or something absurd
I play a lot of goredrinker draven and its super OP
wtf was that Sylas at @10:43 lmao