Sam Riegel has said he recorded this song at 1 a.m. before his surgery to remove cancer from this throat. I can't even imagine how that must have felt in tandem with the lyrics and tone of the show at that time.
@@clinhinyah. They also got picked up for season 4 so late and ended this season the way they did because they didn’t know how things were going to play out with Sam’s illness. If things had gone badly, then they would have cut the scenes of Vax showing his disease and the vecna cult, because they were all individual shots. The show would have ended beautifully with them all going their separate ways.
@@dominiqueaguilar4808 Yeah I was wondering why they announced it so late. Well that would have been a pretty solid ending, although I always hope for more :P I'm a bit behind on Critical Role so I'm trying to catch up with videos and probably haven't heard about that through CR yet - thanks.
The feeblemind was the only thing I missed because it was so incredibly poetic. Fully understand why it wasn't feasible!! I really wish they had had the time to stretch these episodes a little more, but outside of that, really love the way they balanced everything and managed to do so much with the time they had.
@@bulletsandbracelets4140It was easily feasible. They could have literally just had Keyleth shove a rock spike into Raishan's brain. Same effect as feeblemind.
I like the re-infecting of Raishan because it was her weakness and constant source of frustration throughout the season, and with her zombified Thordak body swap, she was convinced she was finally rid of the blight. And then Keyleth pulled an “LOL NOPE” and found a way to give it back to her.
This was definitely the "end of the empire strikes back" ending. The day is saved, other things will happen, but for now they are going their separate ways for a while.
8:34 I love the writers giving Vax the "brother" line! Yes, this is absolutely Vex's moment as she finally admits to herself that she loves Percy, but having Vax also acknowledge him as family and bury the hatchet after two seasons was a wonderful addition.
Absolutely! It was a very beautiful sentiment coming from Vax, that will stick with me for a long time. I mean Vex’s moment is important and beautiful to me as well but having that Vax say that just added so much to it.
The change to A Bards Lament really makes sense because of one major difference between LoVM and Campaign 1, Pike is around more. Her presence helped keep Scanlan from going down that path
I think it's 100% because they didn't know if they were getting a fourth season. If they had known that, I'm sure they would've followed through. They needed to create a season finale that could be an acceptable series finale, and the table version of A Bard's Lament would have prevented that. In fact, here's a recent quote from Sam: "[It] just seemed like not a fun way to end,” Riegel says about the change. “If that’s the end of the series, not a fun way to end the series with one character mad at everybody else, roll credits. So we tried to meld and reshape that story into something that was a bittersweet goodbye rather than an angry goodbye with the hopes that we can still revisit that anger later in the series if we get more seasons.”
@@michaelkemmet834 Let's face it, Bard's Lament was an as*pull on Sam's part. None of what Scanlan said was true, it was just Sam trying to get out of playing Scanlan. Sam always gets the urge to change character when they reach their arc. He forced himself to stay with Veth, but you could tell he wanted to change characters.
@gamemastertoolbox what I remember about the C1 episode is the tension of the first half and the release of the second half. It was a monumental troll by Sam, and I don't mind the change for the show.
For anyone who didn't catch it in the credits, Undead Thordak is not in fact voiced by Lance Reddick (besides the fact it's partially Cree Summer, obv). It's actually (pause for effect)... Levar Burton. Yes, *that* Levar Burton. And you know what, so far, people are being cool about it, which is nice.
@Heritage367 - I mean, they kept it in the extended CR family at least - Mica Burton has a longstanding relationship with them and is a TTRPG player in her own right - and it doesn't pull focus away from Cree Summer's performance as Raishan. That counts for a lot in my book.
@@curtisd5864Yeah, the moment I saw his name in the credits, I hoped they’d give him an extended role in the next season or Mighty Nein, because I’d love to see what he would do with an Exandria character.
@@smashbrandiscootch719 its what she planned even at the table. To get rid of the sickness she planned to becme a dragolich, Matt himself said that in the special talks machina after the final episode years ago. Thats also why she went to that specific location in the table game. This is a "what if vox machina didnt make it in time to stop her becoming a dragolich". That was the secret Thortak held, the rite to become one. She wanted to torture it out of his soul with an ancient version of speak with dead, vox machina stopped her in time.
So one thing i remember from the campaign is when Percy died, Taliesin was very ambivalent about coming back. In the end it was up to him if he wanted the ritual to work and Vex's speech is what sealed it.
Kiki absolutely deceived the Deceiver, beating her at her own game. _And she didn't need no stinkin' vestige._ Good thing, too, because Raishan had planned ahead on how to counter all of them... Too bad, because now she's a _Deceased_ Deceiver.
Two things. First, when Gilmore appeared, and Jay posed, how the frack did Jay never cosplay as Gilmore? He would KILL it! Also, speaking of Gilmore, did you here him call Scanlon "meat man"? Very nice...IYKYK
I've been learning so much about Vecna's lore for my own campaign and I audibly exclaimed seeing the cultists with their eyes gouged out, knew exactly where it was going.
In terms of the Bards Lament... I LOVE how they handled it in the show. In the stream, Scanlan was absolutely dismissed as just "the joke" and no one ever really took him seriously. It made sense for him to lash out like that in the original campaign for how they all treated him. In the show, Scanlan proved himself over and over again, with burning down Vedmire's house, with literally clutching the Umbrasyl fight... Scanlan proved himself capable and trustworthy and the rest of Vox Machina showed their honest appreciation of that. They ABSOLUTELY could've used Percy's death as a way for the rest of them to lash out at Scanlan and do Bard's Lament that way, but they DIDN'T, and it absolutely makes sense. Vex doesn't blame Scanlan for wanting to mend his relationship with his daughter. She knows he regrets leaving at that time, and that clearly it wouldn't have changed anything. He probably would've been caught in Ripley's Delirium Gas Trap just the same as the others. In the show, KEYLETH was the one who was never taken seriously, and that was handled beautifully in a way that absolutely made sense. This season really took the characters that we love and honestly made them.. I guess the word is "healthier" in their friendship. It makes sense that, rather than separating with animosity, they'd go their own ways until they were needed again! I cannot wait for Season 4 and the Whispered One... Everything they've done has been PERFECT thus far. Only thing I genuinely didn't like about this season was that Vex and Vax didn't grab Cabal's Ruin after their fight with Ripley. They absolutely had time to do so and it was a POWERFUL Vestige that could've been used in their fight with Raishan the Dracolich.
I thought I was only one who didn't like the way Scanlan left in the campaign. I'm not going to diss anyone's opinions, but I always thought that Scanlan's outburst was more about his own personal crisis and less about anyone not caring, or dismissing his contributions. I was very glad that Matt handled the whole thing the way he did, so it obvious that it was a character choice, and not Sam lashing out at the other players -- because it could easily have been taken that way. I like this. I hope the show gives us a few glimpses of Scanlan as he travels with Kaylie. But, if he comes back, we won't have to process all the anger that The Bard's Lament sparked. I won't miss that at all.
They were supposed to do the "messier" version of him leaving but they didn't know if they were getting more seasons after this so they thought it'd felt weird if the series ended with scanlan going "fuck you" to the rest of the group 😂 Sam did say though they do have plans to honor said scene if they did manage to get more seasons so interested to see how they handle it considering scanlan already "left"
@@nathanhettinger538 I feel like even if they retrieved Cabal's Ruin, any redirected spells would have had no effect on her undead form. That, and all the bamfing around would have been rendered moot by Hold Person, much like when Vax was held in place.
@@AdamEspersona True! But it's still a Vestige that was iconic to Percy once he got it. Without it he wouldn't have broken the record for damage in a single attack (About 250) in the Search for Grog one shot they did. And it's also one of my personal favorite vestiges in the Campaign, so I'm biased... 😅
Something to consider with Scanlan’s alternate departure in this, is that they also removed his drug addiction. In the live play he was actively sneaking hits of spice during this arch, and that (among other things) lead to his explosive exit and recovery with his daughter. So when they took out his addiction and the things surrounding his mom, his more clear minded choice to leave on good terms fits this version a lot more. I don’t agree with all the changes made in this series, but I definitely understand some of them.
Yeah@@smashbrandiscootch719, Scanland is very different in the cartoon. In a very in your face kind of way, he’s aggressively scuzzy with a softer exit from the team. I fill like the version from the live play was more likable, and way more subtle with his underlying issues. He had a dirty mind and A Lot of sarcasm…but when he broke it felt like a dam breaking. In the cartoon he felt broken from the start.
I loved this finale and thought this ending was a great way of tying up some threads (for now), and allowing enough breathing room for us to absorb Mighty Nein
As far as the Scanlan fight goes, I hear you but I do hope we maybe get a little bit of it, maybe when they go to bring him back in they can have him want to stay with Kaylee and argue a bit and that’s when Terry jumps in?
3:45 Liam’s voice acting during that scream was to tier. I know they are long decade profesional actors but I’m always so taken back of how amazing and talent the whole cast is 🤧🤩
Absolutely agree with Jay, the fight in A Bard’s Lament was so cutting and raw that coming back from it only just worked in C1 but it wouldn’t have worked at all in LoVM. This was a much more elegant way to do it and more fitting with what we’ve experienced with the show’s characters.
So. I haven't watched the original campaign. Was this moment like an actual OOC outburst at the time? Or was it like a sorta scripted planned exit for him ahead of the moment?
@@cromwellthesynth to my understanding, it was roleplay. the other players didnt know it was going to happen and were shocked by it, but it was just what sam thought made sense for scanlan at the time (the player himself didnt leave, he made another character who joined the party temporarily!)
@@cromwellthesynth There was a lead-up to it, but with Scanlan’s high deception/persuasion rolls, the other characters weren’t able to discover the depth of his struggle and his drug use. The rifts were forming for a while but mostly in the background. I would say that Sam planned most of it, and included Matt in the idea of Scanlan leaving but it was a combination of the pain Scanlan was in, his trauma and some ill timed pranking by some of VM that lead to the explosion that was that fight. The rest of the cast were not in on it, were caught off guard and it was completely unscripted by them.
Nah, it would absolutely worked if they would have gone through with it. I think they just didn't want Scanlan to go out on an angry note if they didn't know they were going to get a season 4. It was a big mistep. This ending sucked in comparrison to the raw emotion of the table top game.
@@iceman10129your opinion is your opinion. Others have a different one. It changes nothing. We got what we got and you can be mad about it or move on. Your choice.
10:57 Thank you! I felt the same way about Scanlan’s departure moment in the campaign, that it just didn’t quite feel right. I could never break the feeling that it was happening because Sam wanted to try a new character, more than because Scanlan was feeling a certain way. It’s always confused me how so many people reference “The Bard’s Lament” as some epic thing, when to me, as you say, it just left a sour taste in my mouth.
Green dragons and druids did get along to some degree being creatures and guardians of the forest. In 1st and 2nd editions druids could pick up green dragon as a language.
On the exclusion of Scanlan's "Lament". I don't know if it was officially stated by one of the cast at one point but Pike's consistent presence in LOVM in comparison to the original campaign means Scanlans outburst wouldn't have made as much sense. In the campaign he didn't have as much of a tether to the group largely because Pike/Ashley kept having to dip in and out all the time. Whereas in the series Pike is always there and able to give Scanlan the support he lacked originally
Poison Fire…Perhaps Radioactive Flame, or Ghost Fire. I remember in the wrap up special for campaign 1, Matt said Rishon was going to become one of the big bands for campaign 2 if Vox’Machina didnt stop her from completing the ritual of becoming a Dracolitch. I genuinely thought that this was going to set her up as the first villain that The Nighty Nein would face.
Did not see the dracolich coming, and I should have. I used a similar scenario back in my DM days to turn one of my two favorite characters into a lich. Had a murder hobo guy in our group, so I tricked him into finishing the ritual.
not sure if you guys were planning on it, but the Transformers One movie is out and i would LOVE to see a reaction to that if you guys are interested, ITS SOOO GOOOD
"Mhmm mhmm, cool. I need a drink" - Every single one of my wife's PCs, as voiced by Lady Kim of Vord. Also yes, we love the failgirl and sadboy romance, and this makes so much more sense with Vax's story arc and how the c1 ends. Good elegant solution for the show vs the campaign. I also liked this resolution with Sam and the group time skip more, with more Pike involved it makes sense, and learning that Sam sang that song before his cancer surgery (as a cancer survivor), just hits me hard.
I was genuinely worried how they were going to show how they defeated raishan, as the spell used in the campaign wouldn’t really translate to a visual action sequence at all, but they really came through with a great way to show both how powerful and how clever/outside the box Marissa (and Kiki) was in this moment. Bravo CR team!
I also want to let you guys know, I will be watching bonus action tonight. However, because you guys said you were going to do 12 promos, I have waited until the last one was out to do so.
No Bards Lament and I'm okay with it. This is a different Scanlan... he's had Pike with him this entire time. In the campaign he didn't. They also weren't sure if season 3 was their last so they had to close it out just in case they didn't get season 4. I thoroughly enjoyed this season.
2:57 I know you're totally joking, but honestly, I think Marisha was probably either consciously or subconsciously held to an ever so slightly higher standard precisely because she was his girlfriend and they didn't want to F#@%ing hear it. So the opposite really lol.
thank you, Jay, for sharing your distaste for the "lament" moment in the campaign as well. i often feel alone in the fandom for how much i don't care for it (Sam's amazing performance aside), so now i feel seen and the change here works for me so well (especially with that SONG!).
I think Scanlan's departure is much better written, and I'll put forward I think it still leaves room for him being angry in the future. They could have him bring up the anger when they ask for him back next season. At first he can be like "You don't care about me, do you even know my mother's name?" And all that stuff, refusing to return. And that will lead to them discovering Taryon, and when he turns out to be a 'poor replacement for scanlan' scanlan will see the error of his ways and come back. All just speculation, of course, and it would still be good if they keep his departure more friendly. But I think having Scanlan angry at them at the end of this season would have left a sour taste because there's no resolution (Especially if they hadn't been picked up for season 4.) Now I believe they can start Season 4 with the sour taste, so they can resolve it later in the season.
Ok... without spoiling anything incase they still do it... why didn't they have them looting Thordak's lair?? and the um... small box of stuff that Grog finds?? I still say they should have had that as maybe a mid credit and the after credit be the BBG hint we got. Like Grog finding it, and the music ect makes it so climatic and ominous and with what it appears to be that ppl who don't play dnd will be like, why is that so ominous and a cliff hanger it's just a box of blank... ok better stop talking now before I give it away incase they do it next season hehe
I'm pretty sure that, as with all other things that are definite DnD things, they can't use that for copyright reasons. The couldn't use a beholder in season 2, they need "codenames" for all the deities, they had to change the way Scanlans mansion works etc.
@@TojiChiba True, maybe they can come up with some non-copywright thing to replace it or re-name it... or just buy out WOTC and be done with it lol *EDIT* Just googled it, the time isn't right just yet, but if WOTC keeps loosing value in next couple years CR could buy them out. =)
1) Copyright, 2) it’s a ridiculously chaotic item to introduce into a story, and 3) if they ever want to do “The Search for Grog”, there are a million other ways that they could put him into that position.
I love how they were able to make the Blight spell actually fit in the story. I don't recall if that's actually the spell Keyleth used against Raishon, or if she even got the HDYWTDT. But it's still freaking wicked
Not sure if Blight was used or not, but the big spell Keyleth cast during that fight was Feeblemind, although I doubt that would've transferred well to animation so it makes sense they changed it. And while she didn't technically get the final blow, it was arguably her contribution that won them the fight
I've always loved the Ioun stuff and seeing the symbol (Kinda) of the goddess of knowledge on those blocks was really cool. I agree with Jay about the changes to Scanlan here, as cool of a line "What's my mothers name!?" was, it was very abrupt and dare I say overplayed. We are finally at the stage of the pieces falling together about those orbs, but I would have liked a mention about the orb still there underneath Whitestone.. I may have spent a little too much time with the Critical role cast, because I could distinguish all their voices in those cultists, "We are his blood"...
I think you’re mixing up your late game overconfident human male player characters who run with Vox Machina for a bit and then later create their own new adventuring teams.
It definitely felt like a finale where they could do more if they needed but ended it if they couldn't. The Dracolich Raishan fight was great though, the co-delivery of 'For I have become death child' was amazing from Cree Summers and Lance Reddick, shame Keyleth couldn't Feeblemind her but getting the kill more than makes up for it - since Kerrek ain't here to remember his old strength. It's always easy to be critical of something when you have high expectations, I can understand why some fans are disappointed not to have the Bard's Lament in the same visceral fashion as the table, or how Percy and Keyleth didn't get their vestiges, but I think there's still the opening to do it in some style in season 4. If they do the year timeskip as they look likely to do, Scanlan can still test the group's knowledge of him when they - and Tary - come calling to try and get him to fight Vecna, Keyleth's vestige can come from her Aramente and Percy could still get Cabal's Ruin if one of the twins picked it up, or it could just be bestowed by the gods. In the end the season had a LOT of things fans expected it to cover and not the time or the resources to cover everything. What we still got was fun and awesome, and there's still mysteries like Vax's rot, Pike's blood (though it's not explained how she can heal a bit now, maybe it's more self belief?), and Zerxus' connection to Vecna for the next season to cover. Also massive props to Sam doing this season with throat cancer, all his songs were great.
Hm I’m not quite sure how I feel about the complete declawing of the bard’s lament. Thought they had set it up to justify an outburst similar to the table, but the raishan fight was great. I hope they aren’t going to pad out the 4th season to 12 episodes. I’m real worried that’s what this pike blood plot line (no idea what it is) is going to lead to a longer than necessary final season.
Pretty sure S4 isn't going to be the last. There's a lot of setting up to do for the final arc. There's the cultist stuff and dealing with who leads them. Plus Keyleth's water trial and becoming the Voice of the Tempest, Pike's family stuff (if they do that). There's too much to put in one season IMO. I think 5 will be the end.
There's enough story left they could fill up three more seasons even with trimming some stuff. Ideally two would suffice to tell the final arc, and cover the intervening character stuff, at a good pace though. The bards lament was also always pretty nonsensical. Sam was just bored of the character and wanted to stir the pot in his typical fashion before trying something new for awhile. This version of it makes a whole lot more sense as an actual character arc for Scanlan.
about the "declawing of the bard´s lament" theres a few reasons in and out of the show: Same have say multiple time that if Pike where to be there (and i know the PC was there in the campaing, i mean the Ashley wasnt there to play her fully) Scanland would have react a lot better and calm. on the other hand in a more real world reason the always make the show thinking every season can be the last, specially because the fourth season wasnt confirm until the show was finish, so the decide that if this was the last one ending with one of the groupe hating the others and pissing most of them by leaving would feel unsatisfied especially for fans that havent seen the campaing. and one last one that is mostly my very depressing theory, for what i uderstand while they were making the season Sam get diagnose and started treatment, so imagine he want to give Scandland a posible happy ending if the worst happen, i know is morbid but is something to think about it and that make me personally belive that everything that the do with this charactes is ok as long it make them happy
@@viktorstagnetti7491 I mean I didn’t think we were getting the thordak fight this season either but they’ve shown deft capabilities at adapting content for 20-25 minute television. I’m just not so certain where they go if there’s a fifth season.
Sam has now said they plan to have that moment occur later is a different manner. Scanlan will likely blow up at the group for not taking him seriously at some point in season four.
Solid end to the season, though you could tell they were preparing for not getting another season. Kind of wish we got the 'what's my mother's name' scene, but can understand they they didn't since there wasn't much set up for it.
kinda like GOT when they went off book and rushed thru the last couple seasons.. the last three VM episodes were off out of sequence and kinda off-'book' also, and seemed rushed... they just mostly lacked something that the previous ones had.. hopefully they go back to the original well and do better in S4...
The show is literally written by the people who “wrote the book”, who also happened to be seasoned veterans at performing and directing in animated shows. Do you really believe the changes are due to rushing, rather than being very intentional efforts to work within the boundaries of a different medium? I will say that I think Sam Reigel’s cancer diagnosis had a substantial effect on how they ended this season. They didn’t know for sure that there was going to be a season 4, and not just because they didn’t yet have the green light from Amazon. I fully believe that they would have had no problem with ending on a downer/cliffhanger if it was only because Amazon didn’t renew them. But if Sam had been unable to continue with the show, I don’t think any of them would have wanted to keep going, and they wouldn’t have wanted to leave the show on anything too negative or unresolved if THAT was the reason for stopping.
Sorry but no, the in campaign Bard’s Lament was a MILLION TIMES BETTER. It SHOULD leave a sour taste in your mouth because Scanlan was right and he was completely commodified by his friends. That being said, they could not do it the same way in the show because Pike being there completely changed the trajectory of his storyline, and they didn’t know if they’d be getting Season 4
Well, this way we don’t have to see Tal yelling at someone having a total mental breakdown how selfish and terrible a person they are. Percy in the game was downright despicable for me the way he was played compared to the show.
I think he’ll get a couple of episodes and then we’ll see Taryon go on his way and Scanlan return. I love Tary, but there’s really not a lot of character development to cover there. Also, Scanlan and Taryon are the two most similar voices of all the characters that Sam has played, so they’ll probably want to avoid the two appearing too closely together.
How is it a 3000 IQ play when what Keyleth did should have burned her soul to cinders? Their retcons and complete character changes have ruined this story.
Did you watch the previous episode, where they established Keyleth being able to leave her old body as a fragile stone echo when she melds into the ground to become an earth elemental?
Sam Riegel has said he recorded this song at 1 a.m. before his surgery to remove cancer from this throat. I can't even imagine how that must have felt in tandem with the lyrics and tone of the show at that time.
Oh wow, I didn't know that.. :/
@@clinhinyah. They also got picked up for season 4 so late and ended this season the way they did because they didn’t know how things were going to play out with Sam’s illness. If things had gone badly, then they would have cut the scenes of Vax showing his disease and the vecna cult, because they were all individual shots. The show would have ended beautifully with them all going their separate ways.
@@dominiqueaguilar4808 Yeah I was wondering why they announced it so late. Well that would have been a pretty solid ending, although I always hope for more :P I'm a bit behind on Critical Role so I'm trying to catch up with videos and probably haven't heard about that through CR yet - thanks.
I really like that Keyleth reinfecting Raishan was basically the standin for her casting Feeblemind in the campaign. Good way to work around that
The feeblemind was the only thing I missed because it was so incredibly poetic. Fully understand why it wasn't feasible!! I really wish they had had the time to stretch these episodes a little more, but outside of that, really love the way they balanced everything and managed to do so much with the time they had.
@@bulletsandbracelets4140It was easily feasible. They could have literally just had Keyleth shove a rock spike into Raishan's brain. Same effect as feeblemind.
@@smashbrandiscootch719 it wouldn't have had the same poetic irony though without all of the leadup! And all of that would have been a lot to include
I like the re-infecting of Raishan because it was her weakness and constant source of frustration throughout the season, and with her zombified Thordak body swap, she was convinced she was finally rid of the blight.
And then Keyleth pulled an “LOL NOPE” and found a way to give it back to her.
This was definitely the "end of the empire strikes back" ending. The day is saved, other things will happen, but for now they are going their separate ways for a while.
8:34 I love the writers giving Vax the "brother" line! Yes, this is absolutely Vex's moment as she finally admits to herself that she loves Percy, but having Vax also acknowledge him as family and bury the hatchet after two seasons was a wonderful addition.
Absolutely! It was a very beautiful sentiment coming from Vax, that will stick with me for a long time. I mean Vex’s moment is important and beautiful to me as well but having that Vax say that just added so much to it.
I cried through that whole scene! 😭 i loved it so much
The change to A Bards Lament really makes sense because of one major difference between LoVM and Campaign 1, Pike is around more. Her presence helped keep Scanlan from going down that path
I think it's 100% because they didn't know if they were getting a fourth season. If they had known that, I'm sure they would've followed through. They needed to create a season finale that could be an acceptable series finale, and the table version of A Bard's Lament would have prevented that.
In fact, here's a recent quote from Sam:
"[It] just seemed like not a fun way to end,” Riegel says about the change. “If that’s the end of the series, not a fun way to end the series with one character mad at everybody else, roll credits. So we tried to meld and reshape that story into something that was a bittersweet goodbye rather than an angry goodbye with the hopes that we can still revisit that anger later in the series if we get more seasons.”
@@michaelkemmet834 Let's face it, Bard's Lament was an as*pull on Sam's part. None of what Scanlan said was true, it was just Sam trying to get out of playing Scanlan.
Sam always gets the urge to change character when they reach their arc. He forced himself to stay with Veth, but you could tell he wanted to change characters.
@gamemastertoolbox what I remember about the C1 episode is the tension of the first half and the release of the second half. It was a monumental troll by Sam, and I don't mind the change for the show.
@@GameMasterToolboxThis is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. You clearly know nothing about the character.
I want to have as much swag as Gilmore that I can just show up and pose and not even say a word and everyone knows the party has finally begun.
That is exactly what Gilmore's first appearances in Campaign 1 were like!
For anyone who didn't catch it in the credits, Undead Thordak is not in fact voiced by Lance Reddick (besides the fact it's partially Cree Summer, obv). It's actually (pause for effect)... Levar Burton. Yes, *that* Levar Burton. And you know what, so far, people are being cool about it, which is nice.
Maybe because they thought it would be in bad taste? Because I get that.
@Heritage367 - I mean, they kept it in the extended CR family at least - Mica Burton has a longstanding relationship with them and is a TTRPG player in her own right - and it doesn't pull focus away from Cree Summer's performance as Raishan. That counts for a lot in my book.
I’m hoping it’s a little foreshadowing for him being in Season 4 voicing a particular character with ties to undeath…
@@curtisd5864Yeah, the moment I saw his name in the credits, I hoped they’d give him an extended role in the next season or Mighty Nein, because I’d love to see what he would do with an Exandria character.
"He has risen baby girl!"-Deadpool
"FUCK!"
🎵And I don't want the world to see me, 'cause I don't think that they'd understand...🎵
Raishan is "puppeting" Thordak's dead body, making her a Dracolich whose breath-weapon does necrotic damage.
Which is just stupid.
@@smashbrandiscootch719 its what she planned even at the table. To get rid of the sickness she planned to becme a dragolich, Matt himself said that in the special talks machina after the final episode years ago. Thats also why she went to that specific location in the table game. This is a "what if vox machina didnt make it in time to stop her becoming a dragolich". That was the secret Thortak held, the rite to become one. She wanted to torture it out of his soul with an ancient version of speak with dead, vox machina stopped her in time.
You know when you think about it. Necromancy is really a perpetual 'Weekend at Bernie's' situation
So one thing i remember from the campaign is when Percy died, Taliesin was very ambivalent about coming back. In the end it was up to him if he wanted the ritual to work and Vex's speech is what sealed it.
Grog's bone-crushingly big hug for Scanlan as they depart is so wholesome. Man I love Grog and his love for the little ones.
"I'm married to the DM"
*laughs in Otohan Thull*
And also Goldfish Falling Damage.
Kiki absolutely deceived the Deceiver, beating her at her own game. _And she didn't need no stinkin' vestige._
Good thing, too, because Raishan had planned ahead on how to counter all of them...
Too bad, because now she's a _Deceased_ Deceiver.
What keyleth did in the dumb animated series should have burned her soul up. Which is why she DIDNT do it in the actual story.
I liked it as well definitely was an awesome moment
@smashbrandiscootch719 things aren't exactly going to be the same and the additions and changes make sense with how they set things up
Two things. First, when Gilmore appeared, and Jay posed, how the frack did Jay never cosplay as Gilmore? He would KILL it! Also, speaking of Gilmore, did you here him call Scanlon "meat man"? Very nice...IYKYK
Love that ending song! And the tease of the Whispered one that was mentioned in season 1
I've been learning so much about Vecna's lore for my own campaign and I audibly exclaimed seeing the cultists with their eyes gouged out, knew exactly where it was going.
@@lastlife54 He's such a fk'er. Too bad we can't actually have Vecna in the show, but legally distinct copyright friendly Vecna will do
2:58 "I'm married to the DM. He would never..."
Are you sure about that? I mean, I know they're *basically gods* but...
Otohan thull: Are you sure about that
In terms of the Bards Lament... I LOVE how they handled it in the show. In the stream, Scanlan was absolutely dismissed as just "the joke" and no one ever really took him seriously. It made sense for him to lash out like that in the original campaign for how they all treated him.
In the show, Scanlan proved himself over and over again, with burning down Vedmire's house, with literally clutching the Umbrasyl fight... Scanlan proved himself capable and trustworthy and the rest of Vox Machina showed their honest appreciation of that. They ABSOLUTELY could've used Percy's death as a way for the rest of them to lash out at Scanlan and do Bard's Lament that way, but they DIDN'T, and it absolutely makes sense. Vex doesn't blame Scanlan for wanting to mend his relationship with his daughter. She knows he regrets leaving at that time, and that clearly it wouldn't have changed anything. He probably would've been caught in Ripley's Delirium Gas Trap just the same as the others.
In the show, KEYLETH was the one who was never taken seriously, and that was handled beautifully in a way that absolutely made sense.
This season really took the characters that we love and honestly made them.. I guess the word is "healthier" in their friendship. It makes sense that, rather than separating with animosity, they'd go their own ways until they were needed again!
I cannot wait for Season 4 and the Whispered One... Everything they've done has been PERFECT thus far.
Only thing I genuinely didn't like about this season was that Vex and Vax didn't grab Cabal's Ruin after their fight with Ripley. They absolutely had time to do so and it was a POWERFUL Vestige that could've been used in their fight with Raishan the Dracolich.
I thought I was only one who didn't like the way Scanlan left in the campaign. I'm not going to diss anyone's opinions, but I always thought that Scanlan's outburst was more about his own personal crisis and less about anyone not caring, or dismissing his contributions. I was very glad that Matt handled the whole thing the way he did, so it obvious that it was a character choice, and not Sam lashing out at the other players -- because it could easily have been taken that way.
I like this. I hope the show gives us a few glimpses of Scanlan as he travels with Kaylie. But, if he comes back, we won't have to process all the anger that The Bard's Lament sparked. I won't miss that at all.
They were supposed to do the "messier" version of him leaving but they didn't know if they were getting more seasons after this so they thought it'd felt weird if the series ended with scanlan going "fuck you" to the rest of the group 😂 Sam did say though they do have plans to honor said scene if they did manage to get more seasons so interested to see how they handle it considering scanlan already "left"
@@nathanhettinger538 I feel like even if they retrieved Cabal's Ruin, any redirected spells would have had no effect on her undead form. That, and all the bamfing around would have been rendered moot by Hold Person, much like when Vax was held in place.
@@AdamEspersona True! But it's still a Vestige that was iconic to Percy once he got it. Without it he wouldn't have broken the record for damage in a single attack (About 250) in the Search for Grog one shot they did. And it's also one of my personal favorite vestiges in the Campaign, so I'm biased... 😅
I suspect retrieving Cabal's Ruin will depend upon Keyleth completing her water trials ...
Jay: (jokingly) Leave the man alone.
Spoilers for Campaigns 1 and 3:
They have five children. Those two hardly leave each other alone. LOL.
😂 I glad they have a happy life
Speaking of... Percy and Vex never went to hell in the show, so a certain contract was never signed...
@@majormajormajortomno, but he did still have one with Orthax
Who knows if they will or not? They're clearly changing the entire story.
Something to consider with Scanlan’s alternate departure in this, is that they also removed his drug addiction. In the live play he was actively sneaking hits of spice during this arch, and that (among other things) lead to his explosive exit and recovery with his daughter. So when they took out his addiction and the things surrounding his mom, his more clear minded choice to leave on good terms fits this version a lot more. I don’t agree with all the changes made in this series, but I definitely understand some of them.
Exactly. They changed the entire character for literally no reason.
Yeah@@smashbrandiscootch719, Scanland is very different in the cartoon. In a very in your face kind of way, he’s aggressively scuzzy with a softer exit from the team. I fill like the version from the live play was more likable, and way more subtle with his underlying issues. He had a dirty mind and A Lot of sarcasm…but when he broke it felt like a dam breaking. In the cartoon he felt broken from the start.
I loved this finale and thought this ending was a great way of tying up some threads (for now), and allowing enough breathing room for us to absorb Mighty Nein
Keyleth brought her Green/Black MtG deck to the fight.
This was one hell of a season. Loved your reactions to it as always.
Both excited and nervous for season 4!
As far as the Scanlan fight goes, I hear you but I do hope we maybe get a little bit of it, maybe when they go to bring him back in they can have him want to stay with Kaylee and argue a bit and that’s when Terry jumps in?
3:45 Liam’s voice acting during that scream was to tier. I know they are long decade profesional actors but I’m always so taken back of how amazing and talent the whole cast is 🤧🤩
It was quite distressing, so I guess that's good? D:
Absolutely agree with Jay, the fight in A Bard’s Lament was so cutting and raw that coming back from it only just worked in C1 but it wouldn’t have worked at all in LoVM.
This was a much more elegant way to do it and more fitting with what we’ve experienced with the show’s characters.
So. I haven't watched the original campaign. Was this moment like an actual OOC outburst at the time? Or was it like a sorta scripted planned exit for him ahead of the moment?
@@cromwellthesynth to my understanding, it was roleplay. the other players didnt know it was going to happen and were shocked by it, but it was just what sam thought made sense for scanlan at the time (the player himself didnt leave, he made another character who joined the party temporarily!)
@@cromwellthesynth There was a lead-up to it, but with Scanlan’s high deception/persuasion rolls, the other characters weren’t able to discover the depth of his struggle and his drug use. The rifts were forming for a while but mostly in the background.
I would say that Sam planned most of it, and included Matt in the idea of Scanlan leaving but it was a combination of the pain Scanlan was in, his trauma and some ill timed pranking by some of VM that lead to the explosion that was that fight. The rest of the cast were not in on it, were caught off guard and it was completely unscripted by them.
Nah, it would absolutely worked if they would have gone through with it. I think they just didn't want Scanlan to go out on an angry note if they didn't know they were going to get a season 4. It was a big mistep. This ending sucked in comparrison to the raw emotion of the table top game.
@@iceman10129your opinion is your opinion. Others have a different one. It changes nothing. We got what we got and you can be mad about it or move on. Your choice.
Did you catch the Katzen Prince book easter egg?
10:57 Thank you! I felt the same way about Scanlan’s departure moment in the campaign, that it just didn’t quite feel right. I could never break the feeling that it was happening because Sam wanted to try a new character, more than because Scanlan was feeling a certain way. It’s always confused me how so many people reference “The Bard’s Lament” as some epic thing, when to me, as you say, it just left a sour taste in my mouth.
Still can't believe Kash's death
Been watching Bonus Action in between calls all day long at work today.
Thanks, hope you’re enjoying them.
Green dragons and druids did get along to some degree being creatures and guardians of the forest. In 1st and 2nd editions druids could pick up green dragon as a language.
On the exclusion of Scanlan's "Lament". I don't know if it was officially stated by one of the cast at one point but Pike's consistent presence in LOVM in comparison to the original campaign means Scanlans outburst wouldn't have made as much sense. In the campaign he didn't have as much of a tether to the group largely because Pike/Ashley kept having to dip in and out all the time. Whereas in the series Pike is always there and able to give Scanlan the support he lacked originally
Poison Fire…Perhaps Radioactive Flame, or Ghost Fire. I remember in the wrap up special for campaign 1, Matt said Rishon was going to become one of the big bands for campaign 2 if Vox’Machina didnt stop her from completing the ritual of becoming a Dracolitch. I genuinely thought that this was going to set her up as the first villain that The Nighty Nein would face.
Vax really said “It’s just been revoked” 🤣❤️
Less Weekend at Bernie's, more Weekend in Burnie's
Vax calling Percy 'brother' made me start sobbing like a baby.
1:59 - honestly, my headcanon is that it's legitimately atomic breath.
12:20 very "the witcher 3" ending pace-like
I rate this episode 1/1 copies of Der Katzenprinz
They missed a perfect set up for Grog to pull a Fezzick. Percy had been mostly dead for quite a while, after all.
Looking forward to Season Four. Maybe "The Rise of the Whispered One."
Did not see the dracolich coming, and I should have. I used a similar scenario back in my DM days to turn one of my two favorite characters into a lich. Had a murder hobo guy in our group, so I tricked him into finishing the ritual.
not sure if you guys were planning on it, but the Transformers One movie is out and i would LOVE to see a reaction to that if you guys are interested, ITS SOOO GOOOD
I was one of the major contributers to the Kickstarter campaign.
You're welcome.
"Mhmm mhmm, cool. I need a drink" - Every single one of my wife's PCs, as voiced by Lady Kim of Vord. Also yes, we love the failgirl and sadboy romance, and this makes so much more sense with Vax's story arc and how the c1 ends. Good elegant solution for the show vs the campaign. I also liked this resolution with Sam and the group time skip more, with more Pike involved it makes sense, and learning that Sam sang that song before his cancer surgery (as a cancer survivor), just hits me hard.
8:45 Once again I cry because both Vex and Vax 🥺.
I was genuinely worried how they were going to show how they defeated raishan, as the spell used in the campaign wouldn’t really translate to a visual action sequence at all, but they really came through with a great way to show both how powerful and how clever/outside the box Marissa (and Kiki) was in this moment. Bravo CR team!
Gonna need to get that Percy shirt!
episode 9 this season was amazing, but dont you go forgetting about s2e10 when you talk about best animated fights ever.
"It's smelly but refreshing" 🐉🤮
I also want to let you guys know, I will be watching bonus action tonight. However, because you guys said you were going to do 12 promos, I have waited until the last one was out to do so.
when i watched this my 1st thought was what if orthax went into persy instead, that would be hilarious
A masterpiece of a season, again. Is it season 4 yet?
It has been renewed 😉😎
@@grazitamuller9802yes indeed….
Everybody can just say it...Raishan pulled a soul-swap into a more powerful, yet vacated body and became a Dracolich.
So... at the end, was that Vecna?! 🤔
I have to admit, I wonder which would win for you episode 9 of this season or episode 10 of last season for fight scenes. Both are so cool
Ok, you win! I will go watch Bonus Action now.
Ngl, I miss Tree-Jay
No Bards Lament and I'm okay with it. This is a different Scanlan... he's had Pike with him this entire time. In the campaign he didn't. They also weren't sure if season 3 was their last so they had to close it out just in case they didn't get season 4. I thoroughly enjoyed this season.
I hope Pike cast some sort of cleanse cantrip or something, because can you imagine how gross Percy's outfit would be?
Already been watching Bonus action…
alright now ill watch your campaign.
Question: Are they going to call Vecna,Vecna?
Im gonna guess, no.
No, it will be "The Whispered One" Like it was in Season 1.
They can't. Same with the other deities. It's a copyright thing.
i thought they were setting up bards lament back in s2 but i guess not??
2:57 I know you're totally joking, but honestly, I think Marisha was probably either consciously or subconsciously held to an ever so slightly higher standard precisely because she was his girlfriend and they didn't want to F#@%ing hear it. So the opposite really lol.
2:58 Khm… Keyfish…
***PLEEEEASE Do 'The Little Prince' movie next. The history of thr movie is super dope and it will unexpectedly buckle you.
We are… Penn State
I think yall should watch The Wild Robot
Puking is not enoughly normalized in fantasy worlds, your body couldn't handle well Kayleth stuff 😂
thank you, Jay, for sharing your distaste for the "lament" moment in the campaign as well. i often feel alone in the fandom for how much i don't care for it (Sam's amazing performance aside), so now i feel seen and the change here works for me so well (especially with that SONG!).
'I think now we're done with everything...' my guy...this is only the second arc ;)
I think Scanlan's departure is much better written, and I'll put forward I think it still leaves room for him being angry in the future. They could have him bring up the anger when they ask for him back next season. At first he can be like "You don't care about me, do you even know my mother's name?" And all that stuff, refusing to return. And that will lead to them discovering Taryon, and when he turns out to be a 'poor replacement for scanlan' scanlan will see the error of his ways and come back.
All just speculation, of course, and it would still be good if they keep his departure more friendly. But I think having Scanlan angry at them at the end of this season would have left a sour taste because there's no resolution (Especially if they hadn't been picked up for season 4.) Now I believe they can start Season 4 with the sour taste, so they can resolve it later in the season.
Go Pokémon reference :)
Let’s go!!!!
Are you guys going to do a Transformers One reaction?
Ok... without spoiling anything incase they still do it... why didn't they have them looting Thordak's lair?? and the um... small box of stuff that Grog finds?? I still say they should have had that as maybe a mid credit and the after credit be the BBG hint we got. Like Grog finding it, and the music ect makes it so climatic and ominous and with what it appears to be that ppl who don't play dnd will be like, why is that so ominous and a cliff hanger it's just a box of blank... ok better stop talking now before I give it away incase they do it next season hehe
I'm pretty sure that, as with all other things that are definite DnD things, they can't use that for copyright reasons. The couldn't use a beholder in season 2, they need "codenames" for all the deities, they had to change the way Scanlans mansion works etc.
@@TojiChiba True, maybe they can come up with some non-copywright thing to replace it or re-name it... or just buy out WOTC and be done with it lol
*EDIT* Just googled it, the time isn't right just yet, but if WOTC keeps loosing value in next couple years CR could buy them out. =)
1) Copyright, 2) it’s a ridiculously chaotic item to introduce into a story, and 3) if they ever want to do “The Search for Grog”, there are a million other ways that they could put him into that position.
I love how they were able to make the Blight spell actually fit in the story. I don't recall if that's actually the spell Keyleth used against Raishon, or if she even got the HDYWTDT. But it's still freaking wicked
Not sure if Blight was used or not, but the big spell Keyleth cast during that fight was Feeblemind, although I doubt that would've transferred well to animation so it makes sense they changed it. And while she didn't technically get the final blow, it was arguably her contribution that won them the fight
I've always loved the Ioun stuff and seeing the symbol (Kinda) of the goddess of knowledge on those blocks was really cool.
I agree with Jay about the changes to Scanlan here, as cool of a line "What's my mothers name!?" was, it was very abrupt and dare I say overplayed.
We are finally at the stage of the pieces falling together about those orbs, but I would have liked a mention about the orb still there underneath Whitestone..
I may have spent a little too much time with the Critical role cast, because I could distinguish all their voices in those cultists, "We are his blood"...
I wonder for Season 4 how they are going to add in the person Campaign 3 is named after....
I think you’re mixing up your late game overconfident human male player characters who run with Vox Machina for a bit and then later create their own new adventuring teams.
Them changing Bards Lament is CRIMINAL!
What could be the most memorable episode of the tabletop game, out the window.
Are you okay? Let it go, dude.
It definitely felt like a finale where they could do more if they needed but ended it if they couldn't. The Dracolich Raishan fight was great though, the co-delivery of 'For I have become death child' was amazing from Cree Summers and Lance Reddick, shame Keyleth couldn't Feeblemind her but getting the kill more than makes up for it - since Kerrek ain't here to remember his old strength.
It's always easy to be critical of something when you have high expectations, I can understand why some fans are disappointed not to have the Bard's Lament in the same visceral fashion as the table, or how Percy and Keyleth didn't get their vestiges, but I think there's still the opening to do it in some style in season 4. If they do the year timeskip as they look likely to do, Scanlan can still test the group's knowledge of him when they - and Tary - come calling to try and get him to fight Vecna, Keyleth's vestige can come from her Aramente and Percy could still get Cabal's Ruin if one of the twins picked it up, or it could just be bestowed by the gods. In the end the season had a LOT of things fans expected it to cover and not the time or the resources to cover everything. What we still got was fun and awesome, and there's still mysteries like Vax's rot, Pike's blood (though it's not explained how she can heal a bit now, maybe it's more self belief?), and Zerxus' connection to Vecna for the next season to cover.
Also massive props to Sam doing this season with throat cancer, all his songs were great.
Hm I’m not quite sure how I feel about the complete declawing of the bard’s lament. Thought they had set it up to justify an outburst similar to the table, but the raishan fight was great.
I hope they aren’t going to pad out the 4th season to 12 episodes. I’m real worried that’s what this pike blood plot line (no idea what it is) is going to lead to a longer than necessary final season.
Pretty sure S4 isn't going to be the last. There's a lot of setting up to do for the final arc. There's the cultist stuff and dealing with who leads them. Plus Keyleth's water trial and becoming the Voice of the Tempest, Pike's family stuff (if they do that). There's too much to put in one season IMO. I think 5 will be the end.
There's enough story left they could fill up three more seasons even with trimming some stuff. Ideally two would suffice to tell the final arc, and cover the intervening character stuff, at a good pace though.
The bards lament was also always pretty nonsensical. Sam was just bored of the character and wanted to stir the pot in his typical fashion before trying something new for awhile. This version of it makes a whole lot more sense as an actual character arc for Scanlan.
about the "declawing of the bard´s lament" theres a few reasons in and out of the show: Same have say multiple time that if Pike where to be there (and i know the PC was there in the campaing, i mean the Ashley wasnt there to play her fully) Scanland would have react a lot better and calm. on the other hand in a more real world reason the always make the show thinking every season can be the last, specially because the fourth season wasnt confirm until the show was finish, so the decide that if this was the last one ending with one of the groupe hating the others and pissing most of them by leaving would feel unsatisfied especially for fans that havent seen the campaing. and one last one that is mostly my very depressing theory, for what i uderstand while they were making the season Sam get diagnose and started treatment, so imagine he want to give Scandland a posible happy ending if the worst happen, i know is morbid but is something to think about it and that make me personally belive that everything that the do with this charactes is ok as long it make them happy
@@viktorstagnetti7491 I mean I didn’t think we were getting the thordak fight this season either but they’ve shown deft capabilities at adapting content for 20-25 minute television. I’m just not so certain where they go if there’s a fifth season.
Sam has now said they plan to have that moment occur later is a different manner. Scanlan will likely blow up at the group for not taking him seriously at some point in season four.
Solid end to the season, though you could tell they were preparing for not getting another season. Kind of wish we got the 'what's my mother's name' scene, but can understand they they didn't since there wasn't much set up for it.
kinda like GOT when they went off book and rushed thru the last couple seasons.. the last three VM episodes were off out of sequence and kinda off-'book' also, and seemed rushed... they just mostly lacked something that the previous ones had.. hopefully they go back to the original well and do better in S4...
The show is literally written by the people who “wrote the book”, who also happened to be seasoned veterans at performing and directing in animated shows. Do you really believe the changes are due to rushing, rather than being very intentional efforts to work within the boundaries of a different medium?
I will say that I think Sam Reigel’s cancer diagnosis had a substantial effect on how they ended this season. They didn’t know for sure that there was going to be a season 4, and not just because they didn’t yet have the green light from Amazon. I fully believe that they would have had no problem with ending on a downer/cliffhanger if it was only because Amazon didn’t renew them. But if Sam had been unable to continue with the show, I don’t think any of them would have wanted to keep going, and they wouldn’t have wanted to leave the show on anything too negative or unresolved if THAT was the reason for stopping.
@@kaniamiaSam health was only an issue this year, nothing to do with how the ending was written
Finally! Also first
Sorry but no, the in campaign Bard’s Lament was a MILLION TIMES BETTER. It SHOULD leave a sour taste in your mouth because Scanlan was right and he was completely commodified by his friends.
That being said, they could not do it the same way in the show because Pike being there completely changed the trajectory of his storyline, and they didn’t know if they’d be getting Season 4
Well, this way we don’t have to see Tal yelling at someone having a total mental breakdown how selfish and terrible a person they are. Percy in the game was downright despicable for me the way he was played compared to the show.
I will be so disappointed if they delete Tary from the story entirely (which I feel like they are going to do given how they ended the szn)
Nah, they’re not going to cut out the namesake of their publishing company 😉
I think he’ll get a couple of episodes and then we’ll see Taryon go on his way and Scanlan return. I love Tary, but there’s really not a lot of character development to cover there. Also, Scanlan and Taryon are the two most similar voices of all the characters that Sam has played, so they’ll probably want to avoid the two appearing too closely together.
How is it a 3000 IQ play when what Keyleth did should have burned her soul to cinders?
Their retcons and complete character changes have ruined this story.
Did you watch the previous episode, where they established Keyleth being able to leave her old body as a fragile stone echo when she melds into the ground to become an earth elemental?