How to get 1000+ HP out of a 6-cylinder BMW/Toyota B58 engine with @PapadakisRacing
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- Опубліковано 5 тра 2024
- Stephan Papadakis is an iconic name in drifting and drag racing. He has built some monster engines in his time. This week, he's taking Davin behind the scenes of his latest build, a B58 motor from a Toyota Supra that he is customizing to fit in a GR Corolla drift car. This straight-six will be pushing 1000 hp when all is said and done, and we can thank the Papadakis team enough for showing us the process.
#RedlineRebuild #FormulaDrift #hagertydriversclub #neverstopdriving #enginebuild #ToyotaSupra #BMW
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You can sense the tension of 2 master engine builders talking shop on how each personally works and gets it done. Love it.
Grabbing a beer and sitting in the hot tub for the next 1 hour and 8 minutes watching this, the Timelapse was incredible as always 👌
Beat you to it.
Good to know
Yes, Hagerty. Much, much, MUCH more of this kind of content.
as a bmw tech. the new engine is no longer honed cylinderical (its tapered). they called it form honing, which greatly reduced thermal distrotion at tdc and already reduced friction at bdc. also the top rod bearing ,they use irox coating for msa stop and go, which supply lubrication when engine is stopped . its coated red.
Steph actually mentioned the start/stop rod bearing coating before in his B58 VS 2JZ video, if I remember correctly. He said they were not thrilled with the reliability at the power levels and rotating speeds they run around the track, so he switched to a rod bearing without the coating. Pretty interesting stuff
Different requirements, it's the same difference as with the Vandervell vp2 brg. and something like Glacier tin alloy. Especially if they are running on a tuftrided or Nitrided crank. The Glacier will ultimately take more load, where as the Vandervell will take more damage and tolerate contamination to a far greater degree
Those bearings feel almost like silicone, it feels weird.
Love this, Papadakis with the zero BS! Saying what doesn’t matter at all, which I agree with. So much is stories, and like he says, unless it’s proven to him, he ain’t doing it. ❤
Yes yes yes! Two of my favorite people in one video! Much love to Papadakis.
It is stuff like this that reminds me, constantly... that I made a wrong career choice. Thank you Stephan and Devin, you guys are Masters!
funny how an hour ago i was just rewatching the entire b58 engine series on Papadakis channel.
13:00 brilliant discussion on torque, torque error and stretch. F=KX, K = Modulus of elasticity, X = stretch.
Stephan Papadakis is an amazing engine builder. Love watching a modern build with a true expert.
Gotta agree with papa..
80’s 90’s Japanese service manuals were the BEST!
Cause they were Japanese not German!!😂
To think that my engine was rebuild with around 70% of precision shown here and it still held over 1000hp reliably for 2 years (now killed it with stone through oild radiator 😢).
I run grandfather of B58 ... N54!
I learnt a lot for my rebuild from first B58 engine build Papadakis did on his YT few years back - a goldmine of knowledge!
An hour of video and I didn't scroll a second.Legends
1 hour of a Papa masterclass, OK Hagerty, I'll bite.
11/10 episode!! Knocked it out of the park with this one gents, more episodes like this please!!
Love how they took it from the engine clean room all the way to FD Long Beach. Great video guys.
When I started the video I thought that I didn’t have time for an 1 hour and 8 minute video but I was wrong. Once I started I couldn’t stop. I enjoyed every minute and want to thank everyone for the production. Great job.
Love how bmw is responsible for one of the best boosted inline 6 platforms around currently. As someone who boosted non turbo m5x/s5x engines in the early-mid 00s this makes me happy. Funny thing is we were the first to make 1000whp with a m52 back in like 2007 and that was like untouchable power. Nowadays thats normal.😂
Toyota had a lot of influence. The Supra's chief engineer explained how they took the B58 apart and studied every part of it and they would send parts back to Japan for further analysis. Toyota's partnership with BMW pre-dates the creation of the B58.
Awesome collaboration. Thank you Papadakis Racing
The thumbnail says Papadakis but the channel says Hagerty. Couldn't click fast enough
1hour. Glorious
Oh man go beat off to the thumbnail too why will ya
stephan is the GOAT
This was even better than I expected it to be. More uploads like these, please.
Thumbs up for *Davin* being such a gracious host.
Love this so much, thank you @hagerty. Stephen P is so great at teaching, these longer well explained UA-cam videos are so refreshing compared to a lot of other “car UA-camr” crap
Just incredible and informative! They are truly masters of their craft!
Kind Regards from Germany ✌️ Love it👍
This exceeded my expectations in quality. Please, more submissions similar to these.
I gave this dude a thumbs up as he was roamin around formula d and this dude gave one me back I almost died. My buddy got a picture with him but still what a god among men yknow
Great video, thank you guys!😊🎉
What a great ending.
Many thanks for making this sort of content.
Dude. Yes. Thank you, Hagerty.
I've been watching Formula Drift and other drift leagues for years, and Papadakis is pretty much the highest standard around the world for engine builders in drifting. Rarely do you ever hear of mechanical engine isssues with their built cars. After watching this video, it's clear why that is with how meticulous the engine building process is.
Masters.
What a great video. This is historical.
One wonders how much slop finds its way into the factory setup and how much more reliability is achieved by this kind of attention to detail. Close enough ends up being sufficient but seeing what can be achieved is really eye opening! Thank you
This is therapy for Davin after the stress-inducing Subaru rebuild many months ago. 😂
The break in oil question and his reaction were fantastic!
Do remember he is going to have spare engines sitting ready to go. They don’t have time to break it in after rushing to put one in. Fill it full of fluids, and treat it how it’s going to be and he’s trusting it will be right and ready out of the gate. Both cars on his team are running this engine now so it’s been proven as much as it can but all of the big teams are like this.
Honestly id love to see papadakis do a crazy na straight 6 w his wild exhaust/intake setup
Amazing content!
19:08 i wonder if thermal expansion has something to do this more than torque load.
i love hagerty for this one.
If Steph says “good enough” is good enough, then there’s no question.
So kinda like a crush washer for the cylinders. Beautiful engine
Dam, pride in your work!!!!!
Another cool source of engine building info wascwhen Steve Dinan was on 'The Smoking Tire' Podcast a few years back. Talked about building the V8 for the BMW prototype cars and what it took to get the extra power while working within the rules.
You can tell he's going crazy having to stand there with his hands in his pockets watching papadakis work lol
Hey Davin and Hagerty, what if You do a GoDevil Engine from a Willys Overland M38 ?! To make old Hero running smoothly again 😃
Great motor builds Guys!
Modern top notch engineering meets old school engineering.
B58 is a fantastic motor, both stock and to build up on.
This is petrolhead gold 🏅 Thank you guys! 🤩
Finally waiting for Papa!
16:40 a Twist-Ease 0.5, a man of refined taste.
loved this video.. more tech talk plz..
Wow wow wow very good inf what a monster
I downloaded this one and save it to my favorite videos
This is a great video always nice to see the man behind the horsepower curtains lol
Great video, With these new alloy blocks with the sprayed on liners how does a normal machine shop bore and hone them?
VERY VERY COOL,LOVE IT 😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎
I love these engine build walkthroughs. I don't even build engines.
I hope to never have to tear into my B58, but sure enough I had to set one hour apart to watch this masterclass.
Can't wait for a 7MGTE build.
The more I see papidakis talk about the b58 the more and more I want to swap one in my car, they are really good motors…especially on the Toyota side we haven’t had any come to the shop with engine issues…
Some of the topics they talked about, especially about block taper etc, would be super interesting to get something like a bmw engineer in to, if nothing else, explain why seemingly all blocks have tapered bores.
A proper engine build. Love seeing Davin and Stephan nerding out. Couple of questions: In the same engine family of the B58 you have the more sports oriented S58. Why is the S58 not used for this application? Also Toyota has a very sturdy 3.5 V6 on the shelf. Why is that one not selected? Also surprising to see a manual gearbox in a drift car. Makes it a long drivetrain for a initial FWD car, makes lovely inline 6 noise though. Keep up the good work.
B58 because it's still a Toyota product (since it's used in the Supra) while S58 is not. For your second question, I'm guessing either the Toyota V6 can't make that much power reliably and/or size constraints.
@@rsjetthe B58 is 0% Toyota, other than it sits in the engine bay of a Supra, which is also a BMW. Toyota didn’t manufacture a single part of a B58.
I was also wondering why they don’t use the S58 instead of the B58. Well the B58 is a great engine anyway.
@@TML34 Of course it is made by BMW, but it's put by Toyota in their car and even has a Toyota part number for every part. If they are trying to use Toyota parts, the Supra B58 is fair game, but the S58 is not.
I doubt Toyota would sponsor them with the S58 since its not in their engine lineup (yet?)
Awesome content
I think we all wish we could have Papadakis build our engines.
His theroy on the bore is probabu just how the tool operates to be fast. It is within spec so its not an issue.
Well said Steph! the people that still tell customers to break in an engine on some special oil, could be using sub par machine shops. also the break in tunes! LOL
Tremendous video. Thank You
super cool
PAPADAKIS lets gooo
Hi
It's cool to see a bmw engine rebuild.
These are the types of videos that are food for a gearhead's soul.
You Are All Crazy Guys, I Love Toyota
Best efficient design inline cylinder layout . Only one better is odd number cylinders 5 or 7 cylinders
Davin specialist V8 engine anda papadakis specialist B58 engine 🔥🔥
🔥🔥🔥
24:40 total seal is awesome
This video reminds me of an old Hot Rod Magazine article "Know Your Enemy" I believe by David Freiburger. The quote went something like, "We have heard of guys squeezing 1000 hp out of their Supras but if you spent that much on a Rat (big block Chevy), you'd be capable pf spaceflight."
In relation to if manufacturers use a break in oil i doubt it. When we do a pre delivery inspection the oil level is always on the low mark just to save money .
In-line engines are sexy.
I love those engines!❤
Saludo de puerto rico👍👍👍👍
Interesting about the torque plate and distorted cylinders
Dom Spec. Ruler!
I’m looking for a rwd early yazuka chrome like the yazuka scarlets or old jdm race cars and 911s any recommendations I’m by Spokane Seattle area
I'd take a guess that with the FEA they've run, the taper is probably due to the way the thermal properties (ie. distribution of temps) are around the block at operating temps (ie. top/bottom may run hotter/cooler than the alternative end due to things like the coolant/oil gallery design or even thermal mass of the block). As a result, there's probably a transition in terms of how much the bore expands across it's distance/length, so they're likely just accounting for that transition... ie. the tapered machining may result in the bores actually being pretty uniform/round at operating temps, across the length of the bore (TDC to BDC).
I always wondered, by putting the bearing thicknesses offset one big one small aren't you offsetting the crank ?
Did you weight pistons before putting them into the block?
Dom!!
Kinda surprised we aren’t using lasers to get accurate measurements for clearances/ tolerance.
Nothing wrong with taking measurements the old way and maybe it’s just not worth the price but at this level of performance I would think it would be somewhat more beneficial.
Could also better account for wear at end of race season.
Maybe cuz its Formula D and not Formula 1, meaning the money and the need for research is there imo
19:00 I wouldn't be surprised if that's true. FEA has come a VERY long way in just 20 years - OEMs can DEFINITELY account for this kind of distortion and reverse-engineer it into the CNC program quite easily nowadays, IMHO.
really great content for us engine nerds.. lol
What are the best platforms for buying old race cars from Japan or crate motors to take apart or do you recommended to take it apart my step dad is older stelantis but he doesn’t wanna do to much like turbo ish or like anything best 500whp but he has forums and freinds and stuff
What product was he dabbing on the head nuts before he torqued them down? White bottle with blue label?
Subbed and belled!
I looked it up and the bottle seems to match ARP assembly lube.
In the video, he said he uses the CP Carillo assembly lube because it has given him better results than the ARP assembly lube
Kind of Video that you get chance to reinforce the appreciation of Combustion Engines
The break in oil is actually able to bind to the metal chemically, intermolecular forces i believe. So the wearing that is happening initially is a microscopic chemical wearing, not as much mechanical wear I believe.
Probably still not that necessary 100% of the time like you said.
This is remarkably similar to an M54 from 20 years ago with all the BMW special alignment tools lol
I love the content. Quick question: does the Al heat expansion difference to steel heat expansion on the mains matter?
I'll certainly comment again as I'm only 8min in. Thanks for great content.
"Tolerances". Got it.
I just want to know what torque wrench he’s using!
How is the balance in the car comparing 4 vs 6 cylinder engine ?
if you mix a standard and an undersize bearing shell, wouldn't that be (ever so) slightly egg-shaped?
The shells are oil distributors and the miniscule difference in std and plus or minus increment shells is so slight. There are many engines manufactured with selective fit mains. The old way was to make accepted clearance wider to reduce scrapping loose spec parts. With size range shells you can make up for blocks with honed bearing openings and crank journals that needed more polish finish to get acceptable journal dimensional quality. The selective shells allows the oil clearance to be optimal and not throw away blocks and cranks. Most main bearing fails wreck the crank and block and the extra work selecting bearings from a more expensive bearing kit is very rare, a new engine is installed.
What ever happened with the Pantera?