1. Don't let Amazon get involved 2. Get Peter Jackson 3. Get Howard Shore 4. Stick to the source materials (Compression is allowed for tv format purposes but it should make sense)
I think 3 is enough. "Beren and Lúthien" goes first. The cosmogonic myth is staged as a massive prologue, as that 20 minutes of Kryptonian frames in Zach Snyder's Man of Steel. Silmarills' history is set in flashbacks. Then "Children of Hurin" as some sort of a sequel. It's full of action and needs no preface. That movie can focus on Turin's family and show little or no other subplots. The ending is sad and tragic. Then "Fall of Gondolin" with the War of Wrath as a long finale. From young Tuor meeting Ulmo to the Earendil's Journey and his return in a flying ship with the star upon his brow.
I always imagined this start: A Mother's voice telling a story of the start of the world, covering the creation of the world and discord of melkor; the destruction of the lamps; the creation of valinor; the sundering of the elves and how melkor is destined to return... We then cut to a child -aged Feanor, eagerly listening to his story in a beautiful realm, before his mother leaves him one last time. Cut to Adult Feanor sailing the high seas, returning to Valinor after his most recent decades long voyage, hearing on his return from his sons that Melkor is due to receive his new judgement from the valar, and will likely be accepted back into society... From there, season one ends with feanor's death. Season two covers everything from Meadros' capture to fingolfin's death. Season three covers beren and luthien. Season four covers the children of Hurin. Season five covers the fall of the great houses and war of wrath. In any case, it Can be done... Maybe one day they will release it for the right script...
That’s a great idea for the intro! I feel like a flashback summary like that would work a lot better than devoting a whole season to actually cover the Ainulindale and the Awakening of the Elves in detail, because I don’t think they would work very well adapted in that manner.
I'll bet you could do the events of the Ainulindale justice with the first 10-20 minutes of the first episode, kinda like Willow Productions did but more epic.
@@deathraven7314 Amazon wanted Peter Jackson to be involved with the TV show and he turned round and said he can't do anything without looking at the scripts first and they ghosted him for years
@@warrengouldthorpe5091I remember his original plan for The Hobbit was two 2 hour films. Warner Brothers demanded 3 full length movies. Explains the padding and rehashed plot points.
@@shiftymcgee9359 the hobbit films do fell a little bit rushed and uses way too much CGI compared to lotr trilogy, I think if the hobbit had the same pre production as the lotr then the hobbit could of been better
My biggest dream is to get to see a _complete_ adaptation from the beginning to the end - in a quality much like P.J.'s movies... then I could die happy :)
Ya gotta have Huan, the hound of Valinor, in there somewhere. He's not necessarily a major character, but he's not a minor character either imo. I just wanna see how his three instances of speaking would be handled on the small screen. Hopefully better than Sam, from the Summer of Sam movie. Also, I'd love to see Sauron, transformed into a badass werewolf to try to force the prophecy, grabbed by the throat & transforming into all kinds of other things in an effort to escape Huan's grasp.
Wow. Just wow. That was fantastic! I wouldn't change a thing. I actually got emotional when you brought up the fall of gondolin. Can you imagine how epic that would be on the big screen? Also, just to see Utonmo and Angband on screen would be incredible. I would love to see "The Fall of Gondolin" as a stand alone movie!! I really, really enjoyed your video thanks! Cheers from Toronto
To me this is the only format I see doing justice to the legendarium: 1- TV format 2- 2 ages covered 3- 8 seasons (4 per age) 4- Each season 12 episodes 1hr long each 5- no binge release i.e. giving everyone a chance to watch, discuss and catch-up over the course of the season... Social media to fast at ruining things but great for drawing out the conversation and excitement 6- strict adherence to Tolkien.
Honestly, they could have easily done diversity like House of the Dragon does. They could have invented a tribe of dark-skinned elves. Durin's wife could have been a princess from a tribe that inhabits the mountains of Harad. The Harfoots are literally described by Tolkien himself as being browner of skin than their later cousins.
Yoystan, I think your treatment of the First Age in this manner is the best I've seen. You very methodically carry out Tolkien's storyline in enough detail to be faithful to his legendarium. I commend you for your work. Let us pray that one day, in the not-too-distant future, we may see such a treatment as yours faithfully carried out in an epic production that will honor Tolkien and please all his fans. Namarie.
I would watch 10/10 Amazon should have you as a lore consultant... capturing the emotion, determination and heritage of all the 1st age carecters its the most important thing. 👏
As an animation fan, I would have the 1st age story be done in shadow puppet characters before a tapestry evoking/faded painting background. Something si.ple and understated at first, with the main force of the story being the narrator-I'd nominate many of the Channel makers here who are loremasters that take turns. Then at the finale they would join together, revealing the narrators as the Valar. For the 2nd Age it would shift styles dramatically, to rival The Last Airbender as the most Influential western Animation of our time. So I dream it.
I’ve been re-reading “The Silmarillion”-3rd time- almost finished. This reading has taken the longest because I’ve been savoring every word and underlining & making margin notes. I would love to see it developed visually but I’m now convinced that it cannot be done. There are so many things going on; so many characters. The book doesn’t always “flow” easily from chapter to chapter. It’s richness and nuance needs to be kept in the imagination of the “reader”.
Three linchpin storylines would obviously be The Children of Hurin, Beren and Luthien and The Fall of Gondolin. Those three could be epic series on their own.
Your vison for Middle-Earth's ancient history of the First Age is intensely interesting and would be an excellent TV series. The only problem with it is that now I want to see it realised in all it's glory, CURSES!
This is wonderful! For so long I've imagined how amazing it would be to have the First Age adapted to the screen, and this is a pretty epic template for how one would go. If there was ever a First Age adaptation I would definitely hope you would be a part of it, Yoystan! :)
I personally have thought about a First Age show, yet you've made it sound a bit more realistic while still sticking to the lore(the most important thing for us), I would make this show an animated show to make it easier to depict everything from characters to the environment accurately and LOTR in an animated form could be interesting, the animation style would be difficult to nail down, but wouldn't be impossible. Animation would be a lot cheaper and easier to make than a live-action show since the environment's accuracy is something I personally think is important for the story and trying to find the perfect shooting locations for every scene would be difficult, because the scale of this show(in live-action) would dwarf ROP and the LOTR movies the costs would be too high, because the scale of the Silmarillion is way bigger than the other books in die Legendarium.
Computer animation is the answer, with long exposition being portrayed as a tapestry with in-woven runes, rather like the Bayeux Tapestry or that from Miyazaki's Nausicaa. Music by Enya is a must as well.
What I would like to see is a collaboration of Tolkien youtube creators be allowed to give a large big money producer their thoughts on how to do justice to Tolkiens writing, that would make for a show everyone would love to watch!!!!!
@@BlueRidgeBubble at this point, I don't want them to get the rights, or practically anyone at this point. I love The First Age as it is at the moment, The beautiful words of Tolkien, all the artwork those tales have inspired, as well as all the discussions we fans have about those stories, it really feels like a time so long ago that we can't touch upon, no matter how hard we may try to reclaim it.
If someone tried it as a comic book first? Don't forget the bad guys. A land of spiders, Werewolf Island and first Age orcs could be larger. I would also hit the first Age dwarf kingdoms in their glory. I would like to see how the Valar and Maia would look like in Valinor.
Showing the Ainulindale would be easy, as you said. The Valaquenta, however, that's just pure exposition where we know the nature of each of the Valar, AND we are introduced to the Maiar. Cameos by Aiwendil, Curumo, AND Olorin, showcasing THEIR natures as well.
Hello @Men of the West! Great video! I am a big Tolkien fan and was recommended your channel by a friend. I recently finished reading the Silmarillion, and I have to say that your outline for a hypothetical show of the Silmarillion is pretty good. It would be very hard to do the original source material justice, but one day, it could happen. I would absolutely love a Beren and Luthién film: that has to got to be one of the best romance stories I ever read. Thanks again for this video!
I love the outline, I would probably have The Fall of Gondolin be an entire season, and then Earendil's journey and the War of Wrath as the last one. Love the image of Maglor as the last scene
I like your vision. Very well thought out and I’d love to see this come to fruition if rights become available. Btw Fingolfin is pronounced “feen GOAL fin” but that’s no biggie.
This sounds incredible! Seeing Turin and Tuor’s stories in live action would make me so happy. 😢 At the moment rather I’m leaning towards never wanting see another Tolkien adaptation because I know it will mess it up, but if the care and love was put into it like what you have laid out here, I’d be happy.
I have been thinking about a television adaptation of the _Silmarillion,_ too. I envision seven seasons with eight to ten episodes each, and I would make the series more anthological, with seasons four to six almost being able to stand alone. Season 1: The Music of the Ainur, Years of the Lamps, and the first defeat of Melkor Season 2: Freeing Melkor, the Years of the Trees, the Oath of Feanor, the Battle Under Stars, the rescue of Maedhros and the first rising of the sun Season 3: The Glorious Battle, the coming of Men, the intrigues and forays of Morgoth, the Dagor Bragolloch, and the death of Fingolfin Season 4: Beren and Luthien (and Huan) Season 5: The Children of Hurin Season 6: The Fall of Gondolin Season 7: The Nauglimir, Earendil, the War of Wrath, and the aftermath (the fates of the sons of Feanor and Eonwe's conversation with Sauron)
Splendid proposals! I've often said I woul dpay good money to get a Peter Jackson -level realization of the single combat between Fingolfin and Morgoth. I think the Tale of Beren and Luthien could easily be made into a full feature film--i think u said 4-5 eps here. God, it COULD be soooo cool, but then like u said, Rings of Power-type incompetence could turn it into a Game of Groans...
Great idea! I think your scenario is very sensible. I'm a bit concerned about the third season, but it probably might fit into 8-10 episodes quite well.
It sounds very good, but I also think that some red lines and keeping some of the elves from the first two seasons as main characters is essential. No, they don't act as main characters in the Silmarillion as I remember, but for the sake of the show, then it just seems that the director or writer would want to squeeze in every story possible. I think it would be good to try and imagine how the main characters act in every subsequent story and make those big stories such as Beren and Luthien and Hurin's Children as scenes where the important elves and maybe even the Valar have opinions and storylines as well. In this way, the Silmarillion can become 1 story, which portrays the philosophical themes of decay, mortality, corruption and acting for the good as always referring back to the original characters, such that it actually develops. I am afraid that you jump to the next story after having introduced so many characters, it will become confusing and not do the legendarium justice. Also, it would seem to be a religious pursuit for correct storytelling and not capitalise on the huge possiblity for expanding the legendarium and making it greater. Since it isn't the Bible, the legendarium can be expanded by its readers and followers such as us. This would allow the story to continue and enlargen for future followers to join. That said, it wouldn't be legendarium, because only J.R.R. Tolkien can claim to write that, but we can expand nonetheless and bring in some of the philosophical themes that he tried to communicate through all the stories.
I'd always imagined the opening of the first episode to be music, growing in speed and fluctuating, all in darkness. Then, the music slowly fades or transitions into the sound of waves lapping on a shoreline. From a 1st person perspective, an eye slowly opens up, revealing the stars above. And as the character stirs and awakes, they gaze over Cuiviénen... The tales of Anulindalë, the shaping of the world and the first battles with Melkor being told to the Elves in flashbacks or exposition. The show should be from the Elves perspective, learning as we learn the history. Otherwise, I absolutely loved your take on this. I'd subscribe to that show!
I know it would never happen, but I would love to see a TV show or movie(s) that inverts the role of hero and villain (in terms of the kingdoms of men involved not who they work for) or at least one that gives the Easterlings and Haradrim a reason better than "they're manipulated by Satan"
Love this! I would probably have Feanor's death and the battle under the stars as the climax of season one, and split up season 3 into two parts (still in the same season), the first ending with the battle of sudden flame and the the second including thr tale of Beren and Luthien and the fromation of the union of Maedhros
This! I thought something along a "Tales of Middle Earth" show with a season per each big story (Beren and Luthien, Fall of Gondolin, Fall of Numenor, etc). But I like your progression more.
Btw every time I try share your videos on fb it gives no thumbnail , only for your videos . And people are more likely to click a thumbnail than a plain link .
The only change I would make is for Galadriel and Celeborn to join in the War of Wrath with their army from Eriador, with both of them personally participating in the fighting. It isn't entirely clear from the canon, but I think the audience would not mind the innovation to the story, for it would tie in with Galadriel's own personal story of transformation and growth which would become more readily apparent in the Second and Third ages.
My issue is with how much someone would inevitably try to dumb down the source material and combine characters. The Silmarillion as a whole would require a lot of dedication. It would suck to have it end up like Game of Thrones where the creators get tired of doing it and rush to finish. I feel like doing the source material justice would be incredibly difficult, and you're one of the only people who I would trust to do it properly.
Great stuff, personally i would skip over a lot of the lore in favor of emphasizing the major plot points Three chapters (seasons) First: The Curse of the Noldor The birth of Feanor & the crafting of the silmarils/ the destruction of the trees & Death of Finwe/ the oath of Feanor and his sons, the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, the coming of the noldor to middle earth, Dagor-nuin-Giliath, and capping with the death of Feanor and the naming of Fingolfin as high king as the noldor Second: Of Beren and Luthien Fast Forward through the siege of Angband, setup the web of relations between the elves, men, and dwarves/ Dagor Bragollach/ meeting of beren and luthien/ Turin Turambar/ the death of Elu Thingol/ the coming of Huor to Gondolin Third: The voyage of Earendil The realm of Gondolin, the recovery of the Nauglamir and its silmaril, Maeglin's betrayal and the fall of gondolin, the havens of sirion, Earendil's upbringing and marriage to elwing, the kinslaying, the voyage to Aman, the War of Wrath. Just had to get it out there. There are so many characters that I want to give screen time, let the audience see and understand their inner conflict: Feanor's pride, Finarfin's repentance, Fingolfin's reluctance Thingol's righteous anger, Finrod's benevolence, Gondolin and Turgon's Majesty Beren's and Luthien's Passion, Turin's wrath, Huor's obeisance, and Earendil's determination All these could be done, and beautifully too.
I have no words but; This Sounds Super Dope Mellon!!! Now I wish this would be if we have a First Age Show!!! Man, this was Cool!!! Thanks, Mellon for your Pitch for A First Age Show, Until Elendil's Famous Members of his Line...Marion Baggins Out!!!
I love this idea. I think the biggest challenge would be to keep the massive ensemble cast engaging throughout the series. I'd probably have the unpopular opinion to rearrange some of the timeline in order to cut back and forth between engaging storylines. Imo, I'd have season 1 have 4 plotlines: The Elves in Valinor Morgoth and Ungoliant Thingol And Men waking up and migrating west. And season 2 would be these plotlines finally converging in Beleriand.
I think, SIlmarillion TV show should give viewers a sense of the depth of history. Better not to start the show from Ainulindale, but at some point let Maglor sing it and show viewers a flashback. The same goes with the First Kinslaying at Alqualonde. Let it be the story in flashbacks that Angrod tells before King Thingol, and it's the first time when both viewers and Sindar Elves learn of the atrocity of Feanor and his sons. And so on.
I like the idea and would watch it. The only tweak I would say is I’m not sure if the short attention span world we live in would sit through the first couple of episodes. So I’d maybe it start it with Galadriel crossing the ice, and have the first season be a flashback to how they got to that point. That way you could start with an action scene depicting the elves crossing the frozen wasteland. And we could transition back start of the music and the world.
I thought about how I would do a First Age series, and you basically read my mind Yoystan. This was wonderful stuff and If they did a future series like this it would be next onto perfect, showing respect for Tolkien and his work. The end with Maeglor was fantastic, I had not thought about that, that would be so sad and somber and amazing! :)
I've actually been trying to write one. I'd tell the first age stories probably from Beren and Luthian, any earlier and it would take forever to finish or would involve huge time jumps. I'd tell the stories of the beginning days in the prologue to each episode. It, strangely, would make more sense that way, but you would essentially be telling the more independent stories in a way that gives context to the world.
Very well put together! I agree with most of it, though I believe the final episode would need to be split in more pieces. That is alot to put into one episode, and it would have to be a full two hour+ movie to cover it all. Come to think of it, that would actually be a pretty cool end to the series.
Everything is great. The only thing I would modify is adding the battle of sudden flame to the second season and a climactic and bitter end for the well-being of Beleriand, which we have seen throughout the whole season. Otherwise, it seems to be a season with few actions, and you might well loose the audience attention. Potentially, I would also add a storyteller character, through the narrative of which we would see the story and relate to it, as constantly changing characters might distract the audience, and you would need too much time to familiarize yourself with who these new characters are. Maybe it should be Galadriel, who has lived through the First Age and is an already known character for the audience Maybe it would also be a good idea to incorporate mayar spirits on Gandalf and Saruman into actions during the war of wrath. Not like major characters but as a cameo, so the audience might be engaged
I always thought the War of Wrath would be too big to show. Too fantastic and too huge of scope. I just thought it would be cool to have the last scene be some weary, beaten down, beleaguered elves pushed to the edge of the sea in some skirmish between them and the forces of Morgoth, then as they're pushed to the shore, that's the big reveal. Against all hope, the host of the Valar is coming over the sea in all their glory, and just cut it there. There's no real need to see the ensuing battles. We know just from their presence that the pleas worked, and their prayers were answered. There's no stopping what is coming now. It's a foregone conclusion. Just show the glorious host, the hopes of the elves renewed, and the fear in the armies of Morgoth for the doom they are seeing. Roll credits.
I don't have to watch the video to know you would absolutely nail a first age show, you nerd of the rings, the red book together all y'all could do something amazing. "I bid you STAND MEN OF THE WEST!"
Yo to be honest, this would work wonderfully if animated. The animation design will be pending, but in such manner, the true magic of Tolkiens Middle Earth first age in all its wonder!
I admire that how you would try to capture the whole of the first age. It would be a very difficult undertaking. For me, I would just do the story of Behren and Luthian. I feel like an intimate love story set within the first Age of Middle Earth would be amazing.
That’s a good idea. I don’t think trying to adapt the entire Silmarillion would really work out well. It would present issues with the pacing and structure.
The love stories are the most boring parts of Tolkien I'm sorry. Give me some freaking awesome warrior Elves having a showdown with Balrogs and Dragons and fecking Morgoth himself, not some human who fell in love with an elf or a low ranking elf looking to prove himself to some high level love interest. Save that for the soap operas. This is fantasy man give me some mind bending action.
The Silmarillion would be so much just about elves elves and elves… I believe it would not sell even to all fans, let a alone to non-fans. Much would have to be skipped to bring also humans and dwarves into picture, somehow. Perhaps the story of Hurin and his lineage, whilst during the story there’d be moments when some elf tells tales of the long wars against Morgoth and the lands of Valinor etc etc… That’s where the story would start. A second connecting series would be a prequel to the first series (if the first one earned enough dough). Perhaps there’d be a few short films (too bad Hollywood isn’t rly into those). And then there’d be a movie telling the story of Eärendil and the War of Wrath that would skip a lot to make it all fit into a singular 2h30min+ movie.
Considering some of the things that Tolkien drew upon to create the legendarium and the prominent role music has in the simarillion in particular , I think an opera would do it justice. Either that or an animated anthology in an appropriate style a la the Testament bible animations the BBC made back in the mid 90s.
I have an evergrowing stack of "to be read" books I'm ploughing my way through, and every time you upload a video i just want to dive into my Tolkien pile 😤😭
1. Don't let Amazon get involved
2. Get Peter Jackson
3. Get Howard Shore
4. Stick to the source materials
(Compression is allowed for tv format purposes but it should make sense)
The only point that is unfair is "Get Howard Shore", Bear McCreary did an amazing work on the soundtrack.
If it were a movie series, I would make five. The Coming od Arda, Beren and Luthien, Children of Hurin, Fall of Gondolin, War of the Wrath.
It would be really hard to pull them off as a movie series. Think of the Last Airbender and how horrible it was trying to pack a season into one film.
Narn i Hin Hurin would be the easiest to make into a movie, I think.
I think 3 is enough.
"Beren and Lúthien" goes first. The cosmogonic myth is staged as a massive prologue, as that 20 minutes of Kryptonian frames in Zach Snyder's Man of Steel. Silmarills' history is set in flashbacks.
Then "Children of Hurin" as some sort of a sequel. It's full of action and needs no preface. That movie can focus on Turin's family and show little or no other subplots. The ending is sad and tragic.
Then "Fall of Gondolin" with the War of Wrath as a long finale. From young Tuor meeting Ulmo to the Earendil's Journey and his return in a flying ship with the star upon his brow.
I would make 4 trilogies, each with distinctive main characters and arcs, Ive thought about this for a long time....too long 😅
There’s no one i’d trust better with doing the Lore than Yoystan and Royyon.
I always imagined this start:
A Mother's voice telling a story of the start of the world, covering the creation of the world and discord of melkor; the destruction of the lamps; the creation of valinor; the sundering of the elves and how melkor is destined to return... We then cut to a child -aged Feanor, eagerly listening to his story in a beautiful realm, before his mother leaves him one last time.
Cut to Adult Feanor sailing the high seas, returning to Valinor after his most recent decades long voyage, hearing on his return from his sons that Melkor is due to receive his new judgement from the valar, and will likely be accepted back into society...
From there, season one ends with feanor's death.
Season two covers everything from Meadros' capture to fingolfin's death.
Season three covers beren and luthien.
Season four covers the children of Hurin.
Season five covers the fall of the great houses and war of wrath.
In any case, it Can be done... Maybe one day they will release it for the right script...
That’s a great idea for the intro! I feel like a flashback summary like that would work a lot better than devoting a whole season to actually cover the Ainulindale and the Awakening of the Elves in detail, because I don’t think they would work very well adapted in that manner.
I'll bet you could do the events of the Ainulindale justice with the first 10-20 minutes of the first episode, kinda like Willow Productions did but more epic.
1. Don't let amazon near it
And let Peter Jackson be a consultant
These two, good advice
@@deathraven7314 Amazon wanted Peter Jackson to be involved with the TV show and he turned round and said he can't do anything without looking at the scripts first and they ghosted him for years
@@warrengouldthorpe5091I remember his original plan for The Hobbit was two 2 hour films. Warner Brothers demanded 3 full length movies. Explains the padding and rehashed plot points.
@@shiftymcgee9359 the hobbit films do fell a little bit rushed and uses way too much CGI compared to lotr trilogy, I think if the hobbit had the same pre production as the lotr then the hobbit could of been better
My biggest dream is to get to see a _complete_ adaptation from the beginning to the end - in a quality much like P.J.'s movies... then I could die happy :)
Ya gotta have Huan, the hound of Valinor, in there somewhere. He's not necessarily a major character, but he's not a minor character either imo. I just wanna see how his three instances of speaking would be handled on the small screen. Hopefully better than Sam, from the Summer of Sam movie. Also, I'd love to see Sauron, transformed into a badass werewolf to try to force the prophecy, grabbed by the throat & transforming into all kinds of other things in an effort to escape Huan's grasp.
Wow. Just wow. That was fantastic! I wouldn't change a thing. I actually got emotional when you brought up the fall of gondolin. Can you imagine how epic that would be on the big screen? Also, just to see Utonmo and Angband on screen would be incredible.
I would love to see "The Fall of Gondolin" as a stand alone movie!! I really, really enjoyed your video thanks! Cheers from Toronto
To me this is the only format I see doing justice to the legendarium:
1- TV format
2- 2 ages covered
3- 8 seasons (4 per age)
4- Each season 12 episodes 1hr long each
5- no binge release i.e. giving everyone a chance to watch, discuss and catch-up over the course of the season... Social media to fast at ruining things but great for drawing out the conversation and excitement
6- strict adherence to Tolkien.
Step 1: Make sure we have the most diverse cast we can.
Step 2: Now what show are we making?
Exactly..
Honestly, they could have easily done diversity like House of the Dragon does. They could have invented a tribe of dark-skinned elves. Durin's wife could have been a princess from a tribe that inhabits the mountains of Harad. The Harfoots are literally described by Tolkien himself as being browner of skin than their later cousins.
Yoystan, I think your treatment of the First Age in this manner is the best I've seen. You very methodically carry out Tolkien's storyline in enough detail to be faithful to his legendarium. I commend you for your work. Let us pray that one day, in the not-too-distant future, we may see such a treatment as yours faithfully carried out in an epic production that will honor Tolkien and please all his fans. Namarie.
I would watch 10/10 Amazon should have you as a lore consultant... capturing the emotion, determination and heritage of all the 1st age carecters its the most important thing. 👏
Personally, the opening scene for mine would be morgoth and ungoliant fighting over the silmarills
That would be a good flash back scene then cut to the trees in ruin
Like the concept album "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" about the Silmarillion is starting lol, the song is "Into the Storm".
@@Extys Theres more than enough middle earth metal for the entire sound track
I wish ungoliant was in rings of power they could’ve put a shadow of her or at least show her for a couple seconds draining the tree
i would do anything for this to come to fruition. i’d watch it 100000 times
As an animation fan, I would have the 1st age story be done in shadow puppet characters before a tapestry evoking/faded painting background. Something si.ple and understated at first, with the main force of the story being the narrator-I'd nominate many of the Channel makers here who are loremasters that take turns. Then at the finale they would join together, revealing the narrators as the Valar.
For the 2nd Age it would shift styles dramatically, to rival The Last Airbender as the most Influential western Animation of our time.
So I dream it.
I’ve been re-reading “The Silmarillion”-3rd time- almost finished. This reading has taken the longest because I’ve been savoring every word and underlining & making margin notes.
I would love to see it developed visually but I’m now convinced that it cannot be done. There are so many things going on; so many characters. The book doesn’t always “flow” easily from chapter to chapter.
It’s richness and nuance needs to be kept in the imagination of the “reader”.
I totally agree. The whole thing would be problematic to adapt. Picking out individual stories or sections would work out a lot better.
Three linchpin storylines would obviously be The Children of Hurin, Beren and Luthien and The Fall of Gondolin. Those three could be epic series on their own.
Your vison for Middle-Earth's ancient history of the First Age is intensely interesting and would be an excellent TV series. The only problem with it is that now I want to see it realised in all it's glory, CURSES!
I love it when you use that picture at 6:28 because I always get a chuckle seeing the dog that is very clearly doing the doge pose
This is wonderful! For so long I've imagined how amazing it would be to have the First Age adapted to the screen, and this is a pretty epic template for how one would go. If there was ever a First Age adaptation I would definitely hope you would be a part of it, Yoystan! :)
I personally have thought about a First Age show, yet you've made it sound a bit more realistic while still sticking to the lore(the most important thing for us), I would make this show an animated show to make it easier to depict everything from characters to the environment accurately and LOTR in an animated form could be interesting, the animation style would be difficult to nail down, but wouldn't be impossible. Animation would be a lot cheaper and easier to make than a live-action show since the environment's accuracy is something I personally think is important for the story and trying to find the perfect shooting locations for every scene would be difficult, because the scale of this show(in live-action) would dwarf ROP and the LOTR movies the costs would be too high, because the scale of the Silmarillion is way bigger than the other books in die Legendarium.
Computer animation is the answer, with long exposition being portrayed as a tapestry with in-woven runes, rather like the Bayeux Tapestry or that from Miyazaki's Nausicaa. Music by Enya is a must as well.
Ok crazy idea I like it Yoystan
No way, that would be so amazing. I love it, Yoystan. 😊
What I would like to see is a collaboration of Tolkien youtube creators be allowed to give a large big money producer their thoughts on how to do justice to Tolkiens writing, that would make for a show everyone would love to watch!!!!!
I'm not familiar with anything you have talked about in this video, but it sounds interesting!
If Amazon wanted to make a good Lord of the Rings show they need to hire people who actually love and respect Tolkien and his legacy
They need the rights first lol
@@BlueRidgeBubble at this point, I don't want them to get the rights, or practically anyone at this point. I love The First Age as it is at the moment, The beautiful words of Tolkien, all the artwork those tales have inspired, as well as all the discussions we fans have about those stories, it really feels like a time so long ago that we can't touch upon, no matter how hard we may try to reclaim it.
Men of the West is the best Middle Earth channel. ❤
If someone tried it as a comic book first? Don't forget the bad guys. A land of spiders, Werewolf Island and first Age orcs could be larger. I would also hit the first Age dwarf kingdoms in their glory. I would like to see how the Valar and Maia would look like in Valinor.
Showing the Ainulindale would be easy, as you said. The Valaquenta, however, that's just pure exposition where we know the nature of each of the Valar, AND we are introduced to the Maiar. Cameos by Aiwendil, Curumo, AND Olorin, showcasing THEIR natures as well.
Fingolfin is my favourite elf, seeing him battle morgoth would be awesome
This was a great breakdown and story telling 🙌👏
Hello @Men of the West! Great video! I am a big Tolkien fan and was recommended your channel by a friend. I recently finished reading the Silmarillion, and I have to say that your outline for a hypothetical show of the Silmarillion is pretty good. It would be very hard to do the original source material justice, but one day, it could happen.
I would absolutely love a Beren and Luthién film: that has to got to be one of the best romance stories I ever read.
Thanks again for this video!
More thought by one person went into this video than what went into the ROP disaster from multiple people.
I love the outline, I would probably have The Fall of Gondolin be an entire season, and then Earendil's journey and the War of Wrath as the last one.
Love the image of Maglor as the last scene
I like your vision. Very well thought out and I’d love to see this come to fruition if rights become available. Btw Fingolfin is pronounced “feen GOAL fin” but that’s no biggie.
This sounds incredible! Seeing Turin and Tuor’s stories in live action would make me so happy. 😢 At the moment rather I’m leaning towards never wanting see another Tolkien adaptation because I know it will mess it up, but if the care and love was put into it like what you have laid out here, I’d be happy.
I have been thinking about a television adaptation of the _Silmarillion,_ too. I envision seven seasons with eight to ten episodes each, and I would make the series more anthological, with seasons four to six almost being able to stand alone.
Season 1: The Music of the Ainur, Years of the Lamps, and the first defeat of Melkor
Season 2: Freeing Melkor, the Years of the Trees, the Oath of Feanor, the Battle Under Stars, the rescue of Maedhros and the first rising of the sun
Season 3: The Glorious Battle, the coming of Men, the intrigues and forays of Morgoth, the Dagor Bragolloch, and the death of Fingolfin
Season 4: Beren and Luthien (and Huan)
Season 5: The Children of Hurin
Season 6: The Fall of Gondolin
Season 7: The Nauglimir, Earendil, the War of Wrath, and the aftermath (the fates of the sons of Feanor and Eonwe's conversation with Sauron)
Thanks
Splendid proposals! I've often said I woul dpay good money to get a Peter Jackson -level realization of the single combat between Fingolfin and Morgoth. I think the Tale of Beren and Luthien could easily be made into a full feature film--i think u said 4-5 eps here. God, it COULD be soooo cool, but then like u said, Rings of Power-type incompetence could turn it into a Game of Groans...
Great idea! I think your scenario is very sensible. I'm a bit concerned about the third season, but it probably might fit into 8-10 episodes quite well.
This is beautifully thought out. It's too bad Hollywood doesn't hire qualified people anymore.
It sounds very good, but I also think that some red lines and keeping some of the elves from the first two seasons as main characters is essential. No, they don't act as main characters in the Silmarillion as I remember, but for the sake of the show, then it just seems that the director or writer would want to squeeze in every story possible. I think it would be good to try and imagine how the main characters act in every subsequent story and make those big stories such as Beren and Luthien and Hurin's Children as scenes where the important elves and maybe even the Valar have opinions and storylines as well. In this way, the Silmarillion can become 1 story, which portrays the philosophical themes of decay, mortality, corruption and acting for the good as always referring back to the original characters, such that it actually develops. I am afraid that you jump to the next story after having introduced so many characters, it will become confusing and not do the legendarium justice. Also, it would seem to be a religious pursuit for correct storytelling and not capitalise on the huge possiblity for expanding the legendarium and making it greater. Since it isn't the Bible, the legendarium can be expanded by its readers and followers such as us. This would allow the story to continue and enlargen for future followers to join.
That said, it wouldn't be legendarium, because only J.R.R. Tolkien can claim to write that, but we can expand nonetheless and bring in some of the philosophical themes that he tried to communicate through all the stories.
They should let you my friend
I got goosebumps just by listening to this. Great stuff
I adore this UA-cam channel. My absolute favorite channel ever!
I'd always imagined the opening of the first episode to be music, growing in speed and fluctuating, all in darkness.
Then, the music slowly fades or transitions into the sound of waves lapping on a shoreline. From a 1st person perspective, an eye slowly opens up, revealing the stars above. And as the character stirs and awakes, they gaze over Cuiviénen...
The tales of Anulindalë, the shaping of the world and the first battles with Melkor being told to the Elves in flashbacks or exposition. The show should be from the Elves perspective, learning as we learn the history.
Otherwise, I absolutely loved your take on this. I'd subscribe to that show!
I want to do a movie/TV-show about Saurons corruptions/manipulation of the Elves and Mankind.
I would so watch this. I wish there was a way to make it happen, a TV show of both the First and Second Ages would be amazing.
I know it would never happen, but I would love to see a TV show or movie(s) that inverts the role of hero and villain (in terms of the kingdoms of men involved not who they work for) or at least one that gives the Easterlings and Haradrim a reason better than "they're manipulated by Satan"
Yes, imagine people who love Tolkien's material were in charge. We'd be seeing more of this. Good job, friend :)
Oh man! I would LOVE to watch your show!!!
Love this! I would probably have Feanor's death and the battle under the stars as the climax of season one, and split up season 3 into two parts (still in the same season), the first ending with the battle of sudden flame and the the second including thr tale of Beren and Luthien and the fromation of the union of Maedhros
Your ideas sound terrific. We can only hope a genuine Tolkien fan would do it.
This! I thought something along a "Tales of Middle Earth" show with a season per each big story (Beren and Luthien, Fall of Gondolin, Fall of Numenor, etc). But I like your progression more.
How I wish we could see a show made with respect to Tolkien, and by people with a true passion for his works. But alas that cannot be. Great video
Please God, this would be amazing.
That sounds so awesome , literally got goosebumps at the end imagining it . Ah , if only …
Btw every time I try share your videos on fb it gives no thumbnail , only for your videos . And people are more likely to click a thumbnail than a plain link .
The only change I would make is for Galadriel and Celeborn to join in the War of Wrath with their army from Eriador, with both of them personally participating in the fighting. It isn't entirely clear from the canon, but I think the audience would not mind the innovation to the story, for it would tie in with Galadriel's own personal story of transformation and growth which would become more readily apparent in the Second and Third ages.
My issue is with how much someone would inevitably try to dumb down the source material and combine characters. The Silmarillion as a whole would require a lot of dedication. It would suck to have it end up like Game of Thrones where the creators get tired of doing it and rush to finish. I feel like doing the source material justice would be incredibly difficult, and you're one of the only people who I would trust to do it properly.
I have already thought of this, but yours is definitely better!
Perhaps having a few before the awakening of the elves flashbacks for the back story of Sauron and Morgoth
Great stuff, personally i would skip over a lot of the lore in favor of emphasizing the major plot points
Three chapters (seasons)
First: The Curse of the Noldor
The birth of Feanor & the crafting of the silmarils/ the destruction of the trees & Death of Finwe/ the oath of Feanor and his sons, the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, the coming of the noldor to middle earth, Dagor-nuin-Giliath, and capping with the death of Feanor and the naming of Fingolfin as high king as the noldor
Second: Of Beren and Luthien
Fast Forward through the siege of Angband, setup the web of relations between the elves, men, and dwarves/ Dagor Bragollach/ meeting of beren and luthien/ Turin Turambar/ the death of Elu Thingol/ the coming of Huor to Gondolin
Third: The voyage of Earendil
The realm of Gondolin, the recovery of the Nauglamir and its silmaril, Maeglin's betrayal and the fall of gondolin, the havens of sirion, Earendil's upbringing and marriage to elwing, the kinslaying, the voyage to Aman, the War of Wrath.
Just had to get it out there. There are so many characters that I want to give screen time, let the audience see and understand their inner conflict:
Feanor's pride, Finarfin's repentance, Fingolfin's reluctance
Thingol's righteous anger, Finrod's benevolence, Gondolin and Turgon's Majesty
Beren's and Luthien's Passion, Turin's wrath, Huor's obeisance, and Earendil's determination
All these could be done, and beautifully too.
I have no words but; This Sounds Super Dope Mellon!!! Now I wish this would be if we have a First Age Show!!! Man, this was Cool!!!
Thanks, Mellon for your Pitch for A First Age Show, Until Elendil's Famous Members of his Line...Marion Baggins Out!!!
Soon with the generative AI we will be able to see the fan's interpretations of The Silmarillion, it will be incredible
Correction: AI's compilation of other art.
I love this idea. I think the biggest challenge would be to keep the massive ensemble cast engaging throughout the series.
I'd probably have the unpopular opinion to rearrange some of the timeline in order to cut back and forth between engaging storylines.
Imo, I'd have season 1 have 4 plotlines:
The Elves in Valinor
Morgoth and Ungoliant
Thingol
And Men waking up and migrating west.
And season 2 would be these plotlines finally converging in Beleriand.
Why the HELL aren't you a consultant for these people?? You would have us all in awe with this show! Now I almost wish I hadn't seen the video
Really good set up for the show!
I think, SIlmarillion TV show should give viewers a sense of the depth of history. Better not to start the show from Ainulindale, but at some point let Maglor sing it and show viewers a flashback. The same goes with the First Kinslaying at Alqualonde. Let it be the story in flashbacks that Angrod tells before King Thingol, and it's the first time when both viewers and Sindar Elves learn of the atrocity of Feanor and his sons. And so on.
Sounds good indeed.
The Silmarillion is my favourite JRR Tolkien book. I have read it thrice.
I like the idea and would watch it. The only tweak I would say is I’m not sure if the short attention span world we live in would sit through the first couple of episodes. So I’d maybe it start it with Galadriel crossing the ice, and have the first season be a flashback to how they got to that point.
That way you could start with an action scene depicting the elves crossing the frozen wasteland. And we could transition back start of the music and the world.
My only wish before I die is to see these stories brought to screen and be done right.
I thought about how I would do a First Age series, and you basically read my mind Yoystan. This was wonderful stuff and If they did a future series like this it would be next onto perfect, showing respect for Tolkien and his work. The end with Maeglor was fantastic, I had not thought about that, that would be so sad and somber and amazing! :)
Great ideas! I would love to see this!!
Thus is gold man. Love your videos.
Oohh! Forgot to add. A whole episode about The Nameless Things would be *terrifying*
🎉🎉New video 😊
Excellent job with your First Age series. I’d watch it 🤘
I've actually been trying to write one. I'd tell the first age stories probably from Beren and Luthian, any earlier and it would take forever to finish or would involve huge time jumps. I'd tell the stories of the beginning days in the prologue to each episode. It, strangely, would make more sense that way, but you would essentially be telling the more independent stories in a way that gives context to the world.
Very well put together! I agree with most of it, though I believe the final episode would need to be split in more pieces. That is alot to put into one episode, and it would have to be a full two hour+ movie to cover it all.
Come to think of it, that would actually be a pretty cool end to the series.
The first age, clearly the best of Middle earth.
Everything is great. The only thing I would modify is adding the battle of sudden flame to the second season and a climactic and bitter end for the well-being of Beleriand, which we have seen throughout the whole season. Otherwise, it seems to be a season with few actions, and you might well loose the audience attention.
Potentially, I would also add a storyteller character, through the narrative of which we would see the story and relate to it, as constantly changing characters might distract the audience, and you would need too much time to familiarize yourself with who these new characters are. Maybe it should be Galadriel, who has lived through the First Age and is an already known character for the audience
Maybe it would also be a good idea to incorporate mayar spirits on Gandalf and Saruman into actions during the war of wrath. Not like major characters but as a cameo, so the audience might be engaged
I would absolutely watch that!
I always thought the War of Wrath would be too big to show. Too fantastic and too huge of scope. I just thought it would be cool to have the last scene be some weary, beaten down, beleaguered elves pushed to the edge of the sea in some skirmish between them and the forces of Morgoth, then as they're pushed to the shore, that's the big reveal. Against all hope, the host of the Valar is coming over the sea in all their glory, and just cut it there. There's no real need to see the ensuing battles. We know just from their presence that the pleas worked, and their prayers were answered. There's no stopping what is coming now. It's a foregone conclusion.
Just show the glorious host, the hopes of the elves renewed, and the fear in the armies of Morgoth for the doom they are seeing. Roll credits.
The Feast of Reuniting would be cool to see
In that last season midway through some foreshadowing of the uncalogon and the winged dragons would be great.
I don't have to watch the video to know you would absolutely nail a first age show, you nerd of the rings, the red book together all y'all could do something amazing. "I bid you STAND MEN OF THE WEST!"
Yo to be honest, this would work wonderfully if animated. The animation design will be pending, but in such manner, the true magic of Tolkiens Middle Earth first age in all its wonder!
I think they'd need to bring in Men of the West, The Broken Sword, and Nerd of The Rings, among others for consultation
I want to stand up and clap in the middle of my living room. Well done
This is an exciting idea!
The fall of gondolin would be epic seeing how they fought to the last
Step one : animated
Step two : multi season streaming series
Step three: try to match book canon 75% at least
Animated is a cool idea. Maybe that’s the only way to get the Estate to do it.
Agreed.
@@Azulakayeshell nah
@@tdubya75no thank you
Anything better than Amazon would've been great!
I admire that how you would try to capture the whole of the first age. It would be a very difficult undertaking. For me, I would just do the story of Behren and Luthian. I feel like an intimate love story set within the first Age of Middle Earth would be amazing.
That’s a good idea. I don’t think trying to adapt the entire Silmarillion would really work out well. It would present issues with the pacing and structure.
The love stories are the most boring parts of Tolkien I'm sorry. Give me some freaking awesome warrior Elves having a showdown with Balrogs and Dragons and fecking Morgoth himself, not some human who fell in love with an elf or a low ranking elf looking to prove himself to some high level love interest. Save that for the soap operas. This is fantasy man give me some mind bending action.
The Silmarillion would be so much just about elves elves and elves… I believe it would not sell even to all fans, let a alone to non-fans.
Much would have to be skipped to bring also humans and dwarves into picture, somehow. Perhaps the story of Hurin and his lineage, whilst during the story there’d be moments when some elf tells tales of the long wars against Morgoth and the lands of Valinor etc etc…
That’s where the story would start. A second connecting series would be a prequel to the first series (if the first one earned enough dough). Perhaps there’d be a few short films (too bad Hollywood isn’t rly into those). And then there’d be a movie telling the story of Eärendil and the War of Wrath that would skip a lot to make it all fit into a singular 2h30min+ movie.
Considering some of the things that Tolkien drew upon to create the legendarium and the prominent role music has in the simarillion in particular , I think an opera would do it justice. Either that or an animated anthology in an appropriate style a la the Testament bible animations the BBC made back in the mid 90s.
You're hired!
Seriously - hire this guy as showrunner.
I have an evergrowing stack of "to be read" books I'm ploughing my way through, and every time you upload a video i just want to dive into my Tolkien pile 😤😭