What Would Have Happened After the Lord of the Rings (Age of Men)? Theory
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- The Lord of the Rings ended its story in an incredible way, but it leaves many unanswered questions of what would happen to the world we love. Today, let’s dive into what likely happened after the events of the Lord of the Rings! Thank you all so much for watching, please let me know your thoughts on what would have happened in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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"The time has come for the dominion of Men."
Easy to forget the story continues after the fall of Sauron. Peace is not the natural state of men, at least not for a long time, such is the mortal flaw. But this is where learning from the past should teach future generations. Even if the past is not our own. Mistakes were made so we should not repeat them❤
I shudder to think what the world would be like if J.R.R. Tolkien had not survived WWI.
If he had fallen in WW1 during the Somme, the world would be lesser because of it.
We wouldn't have documentation of the lands of middle earth
Watch the Rings of Power and you'll see lol
The butter effect is mad to be fair
What's even worse is that we wouldn't even know who Tolkien was or what we were missing through his absence. Keep in mind that his works inspired almost ALL of our current concepts of fantasy.
D&D=Gone
WoW=Gone
Game of Thrones=Gone
Literally countless other media forms and fantasy worlds=Gone
And we wouldn't even know those worlds were possible....
5:37 With Aragorn dead, I could imagine his united kingdom could possibly split, similarly to how the Kingdom of Israel did after the death of King Solomon.
Interesting comparison. That definitely tracks as a real possibility.
The men of Middle Earth are more honorable than the ancient Israelites. Perhaps they would have become divided after Aragorn’s death comparable to Alexander the Great’s generals separating upon his death.
Aragorn only had one son, I think it would have stayed as one kingdom. As the cultures are now one, similar to the history of the United Kingdom has been.
@@thomasalvarez6456So did Solomon. Jereboam was one of his advisors before his death and revolted against Solomon's son Rehoboam, causing the Kingdom to split between north and south.
@@ajanimation8239 It didn’t seem to happen in the New Shadow, which is semi canon.
I like how Eomer invited Merry and Pippin to visit him in his last days. And how they were both then interred in Minas Tirith as heroes.
In the Age of Men, Illuvitar would call upon Yoystan, Broken Sword and other valiant warriors of speech to spread the tales translated by the two great Prophets, JRR and Christopher Tolkien!
Literally ❤❤❤
I like how the last sentence in The Silmarillion wraps things up and don't see a need for a Return of the Shadow story. Frodo's ship departing:
'In the twilight of autumn it sailed out of Mithlond, until the seas of the Bent World fell away beneath it, and the winds of the round sky troubled it no more, and borne upon the high airs above the mists of the world it passed into the Ancient West, and an end was come for the Eldar of story and of song.'
If there could be a new dark lord of the Fourth Age, I would nominate the Mouth of Sauron. In the books, he was a powerful and long-lived sorcerer. Yes, his head got lopped off in "The Return of the King" movie, but perhaps he had a ring or some other dark magic means to survive. He likely wouldn't be as powerful as Sauron, but he could become a true threat given time.
Who's to say that the unwritten story of "The New Shadow" wouldn't have shown us an evil with roots in his handiwork?
@@TheSaneHatter That's entirely possible. Who knows? Tolkien didn't reveal the Mouth's fate in "The Return of the King."
@@TheKulu42 Indeed, but book-Aragorn was too honorable to behead the Mouth, so his survival is quite possible.
@@RexKochanski I agree. And who knows? Maybe Tolkien was contemplating the Mouth of Sauron as a new dark lord.
A Kingdom would be probably non viable but a decentralized empire could work. When you see what the Holy Roman Empire and the Habsburgs ruled with provinces and kingdoms separated by hostiles and you consider that Rohan is an ally or even a client state. All of that put into consideration may lead to an imperial capital in Gondor, preferably at the mouth of the Anduin as Minas Thirith is obsolete if Mordor is not a threat anymore, and some vassal kings in far away capitals or even governors if it appears dangerous to create separate dynasties.
That's one, possible way that the Reunited Kingdom could have broken up gradually.
I would have liked the fate of the blue wizard mystery tied up, maybe a single lone Entwife returns and more Tom Bombidil and Goldberry.
Where there is a whip there’s a way
Man, interesting thoughts for the 4th Age and great collaboration between your What Happened and What If series...Aragorn was on the Throne for over 100 Years, he had lots of time for this!!!
Thanks, Mellon for What Happened during the 4th Age for Men during Aragorn's Reign, Until why was Glorfindel was so Powerful, *He defeated a Balrog before Dying* Mellon...Marion Baggins Out!!!
In my opinion, as a result of the fall of the divine beings and their influence on Arda decreasing, if not zeroing out, the universe has evolved into a structure in which human elements specific to humanity (greed for power, struggle for throne, etc.) come to the fore and the elements that make it fantastic are lost, as depicted in Game of Thrones. Tolkien's abandonment of the New Shadow story can also be considered on this basis.
The keys to keeping the Reunited Kingdoms together is one ruler for a start. Arnor and Gondor need to be strongly interwoven in terms of transport and trade. You not only rebuild Annuminas and Norbury, you also rebuild the bridge at Tharbad, but you also turn the North-South Road into a proper paved highway throughout its entirety. Build proper bridges over every watercourse. Building Inns every 50 miles with plenty of rooms for overnight stays. Villages and towns will spring up around many of them. Parcel out lands for farmers wherever it's wanted. You also need to ensure Lond Daer is rebuilt with a road link to the North-South road. Maintain the haven at Mithlond and build a road to the northern capital. If trade between Arnor and Gondor grows it binds the two together. There should also be a fast system of ships running up and down the coasts carrying mail and people. With safety now assured in Eriador, the population ought to bloom.
With regards to the Dunlendings, make them an offer that they cannot refuse. Give them Hollin. Leave them free to rule themselves under the protection of the Reunited Kingdom. Trade with them. Aid them in building their own economy. Make them aware that war would only lead to their ruin. Also leave the door open to becoming a part of the Kingdom should they ever wish to.
It's a lot of hard work this Kingdom business, but the rewards are immense.
😊😊😊❤❤❤😊😊😊
I like your ideas. It's what I would do to bind the kingdoms together.
@@ImagineMySurprise510 Thank you 😊
The thing that I forgot to mention is that the Dunlendings aren't the almost neanderthal like monsters that the films made them out to be. They have to be rational as they aren't that much different to most of the Middle Men of Middle Earth. I suspect most people will be swayed by their portrayal in the films.
If I recall correctly we are in the 7th age according to Tolkien, so at least one thing is sure what had happened after LOTR: Era Illúvatar became a man to deal with death (I forgot which people in the first age talked about it).
Give me a link to this Eru Îlluvatar becoming a man thing. Sounds interesting it I won’t be one of those people who argue will argue with other fans. It’s all about the comradery. ❤❤❤❤
@@Makkaru112 I'm not sure anymore where to find it. I have heard it on a video of The One Ring, I think Dan mentioned it
@@Makkaru112 It called "The nature of Middle Earth" and in it, Tolkien explains that the 7th Age began when the King of Heaven came down from his throne to dwell among us and give His life as a ransom for many.
@@ajanimation8239 so jesus ?
@@redknight344 exactly
Had Tolkien actually finished The New Shadow and given a full story in the Age of Men, how well do you think it would have stood up against The Lord of The Rings as a follow up? This video title made me think about that scenario
Tolkien was renowned for changing genres in his writing. The writing genre of the Hobbit was different from the Lord of the Rings, which was different from the Silmarillion.
'The New Shadow' would have been a thriller, different in style to all Tolkien's previous work. Basically a political thriller about discord in Gondor during the later reign of Aragorn's son. The story would have been about Gondor being at risk of undergoing the same moral decline into evil and cruelty that Numenor did in the 2nd Age.
@@timonsolus I'm aware it would've been different, and maybe I'm in a minority, but part of me really wishes it had been finished, or at least more developed then it was. The one chapter we have is so intriguing
@@endermanwithalowercasee : Agreed, plus I love political thrillers
It would definitely be darker and edgier and more like George RR Martins writing.
@@endermanwithalowercasee I think part of most people wish it was finished, but ultimately think its better that it didn't. For me it's less about how depressing the book could have been, and more that the ending LOTR works better as an ending not just for itself but for the legendarium. It's almost like a microcosmic apocalypse, with the last great evil being defeated and the beginning of a new age.
If we cherished your values, food and cheer above gold this world would be a merrier place.
The descendants of Pippin and Merry would pilgrimage to Rohan and Gondor. The first wave of hobbits would relocate to Pennath Glenn, Edoras and Minas Tirith. 400 years later the second relocation would expand the populations of the hobbits in the world. Tharabad and Celebrant would be great cities of trade. Populations everywhere would grow.
It's also possible with a strategic marriage Gondor, Arnor and Rohan might have actually united.
I agree, that is a very likely scenario. Possibly Aragorn's son might have married a princess from Rohan.
@@timonsolusSeems plausible.
I always thought Gondors smartest move would be to gift Rohan the lands north of Mordor to the sea of Rhun. Gondor could then tie itself to the coast and build a new capital city somewhere that's at a midway point between Arnor and Gondor.
I see Middle-Earth through something of a geopolitical lens as well, and it always struck me as odd that Arnor and Gondor are so disconnected, geographically. This would do nothing, COULD do nothing, to help the management of either as a nation. I think the coasts of the US and of China really drive home how strange this disconnection is. If I were Aragorn, as king, I'd be putting as much effort as a humanly possible into settling that gap between and along the unified coast to try and build some kind of unified identity. Instead of the people thinking of Arnor vs Gondor, I'd be trying to build Arndor as a nation, if that makes sense. Or rather Gonnor?
The best possible solution to the problem is for Rohan to be absorbed into Gondor, likely through the King of Gondor marrying a princess of Rohan who was the last member of the royal line in Rohan. Maybe Aragorn's son would do this?
If Rohan was part of Gondor, there would be a much greater land connection between Gondor and Arnor, and Arnor could become fully integrated with Gondor.
@@timonsolus As I understand it, the two kingdoms are allies already, so a political union would indeed help this reunified kingdom. What I think would be very helpful is utilizing Rohan's horse-focused culture to perhaps try building a postal system, which would do a lot to help tighten the connections between the three kingdoms. If they could establish some sort of road network, that would do wonders as well to unify these three into a unified nation. Maybe set up a campaign of resettling the north as well, sort of how the US settled the Midwest.
I still think the coast is awful barren looking, though, which doesn't make much sense. A maritime trade system would make a lot of sense, so establishing a port somewhere on the coast between Gondor and Arnor proper would be super valuable.
Why rebuild Arnor, for who? Rebuilding Gondor to its former strength and borders would make more sense to me.
Arnor and Gondor, almost divided by Rohan, could very well end up as East Pakistan (Bangladesh) and West Pakistan ("real" Pakistan) divided by India. It would end up as two independent kingdoms, although possibly allied, but just as likely as enemies, waring each other eventually somewhere down the timeline. As for Rohan joining Gondor as a double-monarchy like Austria-Hungary, that too could end in a bad way, considering the many different and diverse peoples and cultures in both kingdoms (especially Gondor, much like Hungary at the time). Gondor, with or without Rohan and Arnor, would probably lose control over its vasal states in the south and east after some time. It just takes one weak king. So, all in all, it's a bleak future for Gondor... again.
@@mogensschultzruhoff6770 However there is no more Arnor. Its all ruins abandoned long time ago.
For the Horse and the White Tree.
I don’t think Arnor and Gondor would ever split again as the only reason it could happen was that when Isildur died both kingdoms were of relatively similar strength and both had very young rulers . Gondor despite having an older more experienced ruler then Arnor lacked legitimacy to sway any of the nobility of Arnor to support his claim and he was not militarily experienced enough to deal a decisive defeat in open battle against the battle hardened veterans of Arnor especially since many of the lands of Gondor would still have been devastated from the war with Sauron. These balance of power would never again be achieved between the two reunited kingdoms as it would take Millenia just to rebuild the major cities of old Arnor in the meantime Gondor would have not only recovered it holdings in Ithillien but also Harandor and Umbar all lands retaken during Aragorns rule.
Combine that with the fact Arnors historical allies the Elves have already fled middle earth and that Gondor has far stronger and older ties to Rohan including marriages to the Royal house of Rohan. Leaves Arnor a largely underpopulated, underdeveloped kingdom with little means to resist the dominance of whoever has the support of Gondor. So any dynastic disputes would largely be an internal conflict in Gondor with claimants vying for the support of Arnor to bolster their numbers but understand that whoever controls the throne of Gondor has access to the largest source of manpower and 3 out 5 of middle earths largest naval docks of Pelagir, Dol Amroth & Umbar not to mention the vast armouries Gondor.
Add to that the fact Aragorn has 2 Palintir which he could use to centralise his realm far more effectively and maintain cohension of his domain. Likely Arnor would become the Domain of the heir to the throne of the high kingship to give them experience as governors who can seek advice from the High King at any point using the Palintir. Likely if any rebellion were to occur it would be regionally based with a Princeton or fiefdom seeking greater autonomy or possibly men of non Numenorian heritage disliking the fact their king is of a one of the men of Numenor and not a middle men as they are. These rebellions would likely be easily crushed and punishments met out before returning to normalcy.
Me and the boys canonically hunt down every last Ork, Goblin, and Uruk-low to total extinction.
One thing to keep in mind is that the population of men in the re-established kingdom of Arnor would be made up almost entirely of Gondorian colonists, due to Eriador itself having been so heavily depopulated of men by the end of the third age. The bulk of the mannish population making up the newly resettled Arnor would thus likely see themselves as Gondorian first and Arnorian second, and only multiple generations later would separate cultural identities emerge. I think another important thing to keep in mind is that Tolkien's Middle Earth, while presented as a version of medieval fantasy, differs from the real world medieval period in that population density is lower and population centers are fewer and more spread out, and thus conflicts over access to land, resources, and trade routes would be less prevalent.
I grew up in the 70’s rankin bass & raiph bakshi
I disagree that the Reunited Kingdom would have been likely to split up again. While a degree of decentralization would have been necessary, Aragorn and Eldarion had between them over 200 years to establish a firm basis for a single kingdom. I don't see Rohan as presenting much difficulties in doing so as all traffic that might go through there would have to go through the Gap of Rohan, which is not as wide as the gap west of the Ered Nimrais. Given the close relationship between Aragorn and Éomer, I think there was a good chance people would be able to move pretty freely across the two kingdoms. Furthermore, I see no reason why the Reunited Kingdom would not rebuild their ancient naval traditions; much traffic would simply sail up and down the coastline. As populations rebounded, people from the more heavily populated south would move north; Aragorn might even encourage this to help rebuild Annúminas and other cities and town in the north.
If the Dagor Dagorath was to be the event that ended this Middle-Earth and ultimately led to the beginning of our recorded history then I like to think that the Men of the Reunited Kingdom were in the thick of that fight.
Tolkien was a scholar and had such a deep knowledge of history that it’s not surprising he decided to never write a story occurring in the Age of Men. He knew that we already had the chronicles and the book of ancient historians. He could not write anything original . To quote the Professor, it would be depressing.
My favorite theory of a new Dark Lord is that like Melkor's most powerful lieutenant becomes the new dark lord as the intrinsic power diminishes. With this the Witch King should be the next dark lord. However he was struck down as we know. But what if he can only return in spirit form with little interaction with the physical world but could be a tempter or corrupter of men!
In no particular order:
I can imagine the trade economy of Arnor would be largely based on the rivers for transporting goods, so in time the south and especially the coast would become more prosperous than the north of Arnor. This might cause the capital to eventually be relocated to the more prosperous south.
I see sea trade between Arnor and Gondor becoming huge as history has proved moving goods by water is quicker and cheaper than hauling them overland when there are no machines to do the work.
Eventually Rohan would become populated enough in the East Emnet and the Wold that they would want to expand. The only directions they could go without fighting would be north and east - Maybe into Lorien since it appears to be unpopulated by the time Arwen went there to die. If Rohan did take Lorien then perhaps, in later years and memory and wisdom failed, they might have cut down the Mallorn trees for lumber and more grazing land, since there are no Mallorns now, so they had to disappear somehow, sometime, and maybe this is a plausible way. East into the Brown Lands and east of that, too. Perhaps the Brown Lands could be rehabilitated into being fertile for crops and grazing. This would likely result in a bridge across the Anduin and a significant trading town could have been built on its banks.
I can see Arnor absorbing the Gulf of Lune once Cirdan and the last of the elves who would depart over the sea were gone.
There is no direct statement by Tolkien about settlements of the Dunedain in Arnor, but there are hints of them. There had to be somewhere where the women folk and families of the Rangers lived, and when Boromir was searching for Rivendell he asked about it of people he met. These might have been Dunlendings he asked, but there might have been others as well.
I think from the beginning of Elessar's reign there would have been a 'populate or perish!' campaign because many Gondoreans perished in the Ring War and the empty houses in Minas Tirith indicate a population already in decline, and Arnor probably didn't have much of a Numenorean population left. There would be an encouragement to produce big families, and a promise of free land to farm in Arnor.
There would eventually be a time when the hobbits would want to expand, and they had scope in all directions [except the Old Forest]. There best prospect was perhaps along the East Road east of Bree, but this would depend on the political will of the king at the time in Arnor.
From what I deduced from reading Tolkien's unfinished sequel to the LOTR, it appears that the events of the War of the Ring had become all but forgotten by the end of King Eldarion's reign, and the only consciousness about Orcs was in saying that people speaking nonsense was 'Orc Talk'. So all that had gone before was largely forgotten, so the lives of men started to become more similar to men as we know them today.
A good epilogue scenario is for the Men of the South and Men of the East to free themselves without the direct assistance or intervention of the Reunited Kingdom. Then it sets up the overarching plot that in the Age of Man, Man fights Man both believing in their goodness without realizing the evils they produce- much like how most conflicts in our real world emerge and play out.
One thing you don't mention is that Arnor is mostly depopulated. With the exception of few scattered settlements, like Bree, and some rangers in the wilderness, no one lives there. I don't think it will be able to stand on it's own for a loooong time.
I think the case of Arnor and Gondor is applicable to the case of Scotland and England: two kingdoms united under a descendant of both crown's. I believe, should they hold true to their history, the united kingdom's could prosper for thousands of years.
with the elfs gone, Aragorn would have claim to their lands (thu his elf blood line) allowing the 2 kingdoms to join along the misty mountains
What about Aragorn’s line? His son would be half-elven, like Elrond and Elros would have to choose to be elven or human. That’d have major implications on the future as it did with numenor.
One thing that I've thought about: Besides the Rangers, Tolkien makes it seem that the ONLY settlement of Men in Arnor is in Bree. The Forsaken Inn, for example, is a day's ride East of Bree, but is there a settlement? There's no mention of how busy it is, how big it is, or whatever. In the Hobbit movies, they do show a homestead or two in Rhudaur, but that's about it. I mean there had to have been more settlements in Arnor besides Fornost and Bree. And I would guess most of the Men, especially in Arthedain and Cardolan, would be much like the Bree-Folk.
Arda is marred and so it shall remain until it is remade when the themes of Iluvatar finally shall be played aright.
Tolkien understood this necessity as part of the theology of these latter days. God Almighty through His son Jesus will do the remaking.
Why be one King of two Kingdoms? It would make more sense for them to enter political union where both Gondor and Arnor would become a single Kingdom -- the United Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor. It would be the first step on the road towards full reunification as well.
The best possible solution to the problem is for Rohan to be absorbed into Gondor, likely through the King of Gondor marrying a princess of Rohan who was the last member of the royal line in Rohan. Maybe Aragorn's son would do this?
If Rohan was part of Gondor, there would be a much greater land connection between Gondor and Arnor, and Arnor could become fully integrated with Gondor.
From scraps of info in different texts, like the appendices, I can see it like this: I see the reunited kingdom surviving the death of Eldarion and an attempt at immediate corruption being discovered and stopped, but over time, as the memory of those that saved the kingdom faded and the lifespan of Numenorian descendents decreased, future kings would, while still seen as long lived, become crueler in rule and harsh policies replacing older ones that were more just, the land would undergo physical change at some point, and so the kingdom would survive for a time. The end of the reunited kingdom would come, if the number of generations of Men is not just poetic language, would come at the beginning of the 5th age some (roughly) few decades or centuires before the Late Bronze age collapse, according to some math i did from the point of Eldarion's death.
I could see the kingdom splitting if there was more than one potential heir.
I think that the presence of Rohan splitting the unified kingdom would become, after the death of Aragon, a serious issue. Either they shall stay alied, like in the video, leaging to a split in of the Unified Kingdom, or to conflict between the Unified Kingdom and Rohan, precisely in order to make the Unified Kingdom stronger. This could be solved by either a war or a dynastic union. In Rohan would be defeated and engulfed in the Unified Kingdom, this new Numenor could become a great empire, yet not an empire of good, but something, more or less similar to the old Numenor, before the fall. One idea of mine.
The best possible solution to the problem is for Rohan to be absorbed into Gondor, likely through the King of Gondor marrying a princess of Rohan who was the last member of the royal line in Rohan. Maybe Aragorn's son would do this?
If Rohan was part of Gondor, there would be a much greater land connection between Gondor and Arnor, and Arnor could become fully integrated with Gondor.
Aragorn develops PTSD, gains a lot of weight and starts drinking. Disenchanted, Arwen does a Guinevere and has an affair with Faramir. Never trust an elf. One night at the Green Dragon Sam finally tells everyone how Frodo failed at Mount Doom and isn't the big hero he is made out to be. That's when Frodo decides to take the last ship out of there. Pippin opens Pippin's Pipes, a "full service" smoke shop in Tookland. Gandalf starts building a giant black tower, scaring everyone. He says it is only for fireworks. The Blue Wizards show up late and act sorry for missing the war. They blame Radagast for not telling them in time but nobody is convinced. Gimli goes vegan. He then has a short career as a cafe singer but with too many "fair lady songs" about you know who. He gives up and does better switching to dWArF-mEtaL epics like "Death by My Ax". Merry starts a martial arts school but accidentally shoots a neighbor's pony - only a scratch but a PR disaster for his business. Legolas decides going to Valinor sounds like totally boring forever and heads East instead, never to return.
One people group that was not mentioned but would have sided with Gondor, Rohan and (presumably) Dale was the freed slaves living in what was Mordor (shall we call them Nurnians for Lake Nurnen?). Their relationships with the Easterlings and Haradrim would have been delicate - maybe something worth debating. And what role would the three wizards left in Middle Earth play?
one of the obvious parallels between middle earth and the modern earth is the geography of that other continent, it seems that america corresponds to valinor in some way, so perhaps the world was reshaped more times after numenor, and for whatever reason, the valar and elves retreated beyond the bounds of the world, or took on some form which is today invisible to us (as the folklore surrounding elves suggests) and the undying lands became mortal and were settled by the men we now know as native americans
As about to finish my bachelor's degree in political science your are an inspiration. I would like to write something in fantasy using what i have learned of my carrer and seeing that i am not the only one who likes both things is kinda awesome.
I can't imagine what it could have been in fiction, but in reality at least part of the world is a place where neither Iluvatar nor the Valar do anything but watch anymore, and people are left alone with all their problems inside and outside themselves. It seems that conflict does not end, because of the human conflicted nature
Tolkien stated the sixth age was our age which started with birth of Christ, implying the fifth age was period of the old testament. The historic aspect of the old testament begins with the flood. The flood level event means another disaster greater than men attacking Valinor had to end the fourth age.
Decay and diminishment.
I always think back to the graphic novel Camelot 3000. Somewhere, in the far future, the Ring Of Power™ is reformed and spewed out from the lava. Elves return from Valinor, Dwarves and Hobbits return from wherever they went.
Ty !
I believe since Eldarion is half elven, likely living as long as the High Kings of Numenor of old, 500+ years, he likely would split Arnor and Gondor into two kingdoms with the line of his eldest son being High Kings, and the second son being Kings of Gondor. Just as Isildur Intended. The Dwarves likely would reclaim Kazad-Dum, and Gundabad, and the Hall of Durin, and restore them to to there past glory.
The men of the east would be Conqured, cleansed, and then lifted up as Free Peoples.
Hobbits as you describe.
But here are two interesting theories.
One, I believe Aragorn and Eldarion would likely enact a cultural genocide of the Black Numenorians, so they could be re-integrated into the Dunedain.
Likely with Crypto Morgoth worshipers being the villains in The New Shadow.
And lastly, since Tolkien said the Orcs are not irredeemable, I believe Aragorn would create a DMZ near the Sea of Rhun.
A place for the Orcs under Gondorian occupation could change and become members of the Free Peoples under Eldarion.
Eventual being reformed enough to have their own army, alongside the rest of the Free Peoples.
Perhaps the Gundabad Orcs and Goblins too with Dwarves creating a DMZ in the Grey Mountians and Misty Mountains.
I don't have as many thoughts on the administration of the Reunited Kingdom as I do about humankind's relationship to the other, disappearing peoples of Middle-Earth, none of whom are mentioned in dialogue in "The New Shadow," 220 years after the end of LotR.
To put it in persepctive, the Legendarium's main volumes are supposed to be based on an annotated copy of the Red Book of Westmarch, completed in Gondor in F.A. 171, a little over halfway into the reign of Aragorn's son & successor, Eldarion. It is also said to have been returned to the Shire, and to the library at Michel Delving, within a year or so clearly indicating that there was still contact at that date. That book also makes clear that teh coming of Durin VII, last king of the Dwaves, was still projected in the future, and that Thorin III Stonehelm must still have ruled the Dwarves at that time. But Rivendell and Lothlorien are said to have been abandoned by Aragorn's time, Mirkwood's Elves are unmentioned, Gimli and Legolas left right after the King's passing in F.A. 120 (possibly ending their domains in Ithilien and the Glittering Caves), and Celeborn was long gone from public view. If and when he had gone to Mithlond was unknown, and contact seems to have been lost with Lindon, leaving the status of its people unknown: "if any now remain," runs the text, "they are few."
And, of course, "The New Shadow" mentions Sauron's creatures, especially the Orcs, as a thing of the past. So there are questions aplenty as to how, and how quickly, the other "speaking-peoples" faded away.
I am not an expert, but I don't think that Rohan separating Arnor from Gondor is the main problem, because even if Rohan was part of Gondor, mountains still cut off Arnor from the east and south. Yes, one road is available, but I doubt it will be profitable.
What I see is that Arnor's river system will transport goods from their heartland to the ocean from where Arnor will ship and export them, so Arnor will become a seafaring nation with the Gulf of Lhun being a easily defendable place for a shipyard. Gondor's main economic potential is along the Anduin, which will work like the Dnieper for Ukraine, the Rhine for Germany or the Nile for Egypt, as a main logistic channel, if Gondor can find an effective way around the Rauros. Otherwise it has to the same as Arnor and look to the seas. I think the Germans solved their waterfall issue on the Rhine somehow, but I don't know how.
Now, Tolkien did cover some of the early years of the 4th age. The majority of the Elves left the shores of Middle Earth with Gandalf & Frodo. The main surviving characters of the Fellowship continued to meet. I am sure Rhadagast ferreted himself somewhere in Greenwood. Regarding the political, the rulers of Arnor/Gondor would be smart enough to carry on the practices of the Stewards of Gondor. A lose confederation, but all allied to Arnor & Gondor. With Eriador still sparsely populated, room for the existing peoples of Eriador & for new peoples to settle.
I think Elessar ruling for over a century would help cement the status quo. I would also think if the rangers became the aristocracy then their own long lives would also help this settling.
I've a question, ( and sorry if i misspell) did anyone of the people of middle earth know or have foresight of dagor dagorath?
Galadriel. (She promised Fangorn to help him find Fimbrethil when Beleriand rises again; from the bottom of the sea/ocean. Fangorn is Treebeards real name. Yes. Forest was named after HIM Fimbrethil is his ent-wife). She essentially made an oath and oaths are powerful in middle earth(our Midgard). She said she’d return to middle earth when beleriand rose again. It’s in one of Tolkiens letters and notes.
@Makkaru112 I need context though, was dagor dagorath said in this context you explained our is it just assumed without truly being said in the text?....
@@matthewanderson9754 with Tolkien alot of things are said in non direct ways and Galadriel never speaks anything lightly and oaths are powerful and move mountains.... and it's already stated beleriand would return anyway before dagor Dagorath as well as the two trees returning to life and Túrin being the one to slay Morgoth at the crescendo of the battle after Eärendil strikes him down upon a beam of starlight with the Silmaril still upon his brow.
@@matthewanderson9754 it’s hinted at several times. It’s not like a doomsday date. It’s not speculation. Read the books. Watch more channels aside from just Men Of The West. It’s literally hinted at. Again. Tolkien doesn’t just hand you everything on a silver platter. There’s plenty of hints to see where his next layer of writing was headed before he died. More Galadriel. More Celeborn. The continuation through the New Shadow etc. DD is literally spelled out to happen. It’d literally written the Pelori mountains break open and the light of the two trees that were rejuvenated thanks to Galadriel’s help(I’ll fill you in if you can’t find the easy to locate information” basically illuminates the world and basically paralyzes the enemy forces and so forth…
@@matthewanderson9754 the context is on the final travels of Frodo and Bilbo to the Grey Havens. After meeting the wandering defeated Saruman, Celeborn and Galadriel meet up with and speak with Fangorn himself and during that fair well is when the promise is made. Again. Think multidimentionally when you read Tolkien.
Thanks
Awesome
Wish there's a video game about the Fourth Age.
I really dont think Arnor and Gondor would split up again, specially becuse of the scenarios that happened from the past, Men would learn that this mistake could be tragic once again and so wouldnt go fourth, there is no reason to it either and Rohan´s terretory would never be an obstacule bro.
I also believe that the Dwarves of Erebor and the Elves of Mirkwood would aid the Men of Dale in the battles of the North in the 4th Age as they depend on each other for living prosperous.
Slow corruption of the Kingdom as successive generations become satiated with peace and good, and restlessly look for conflict.
Is it possible for Morgoth to return to the world?
It always bothered how depopulated the former lands of Arnor were. Yes, there was the war with Angmar and the civil wars, but it still doesn’t make sense. Tolkien could have mentioned a few settlements or towns in the southern part of the realm, near Gondor, just to show that some population survived. Or else, I can imagine him reigning only over Bree and a few hobbit towns.
I think you should probably imagine scattered villages and unmapped towns here and there. Maybe the destruction was super thorough.
What if ciryon send the red arrow to the dunlandings instead of to the éotheod
What if the 7 father's of the dwarf's awaked in Mount cundabad
The movie Onward is the real sequel to Lord of the Rings.
Dagordagorth is our age, and age of evil, and age of deficit of heart and character.
And age of Ceaseless Shadow till the new dawn.
An age of no magic in the bosom of Earth nor the soul of man.
And age in which terror, ruin, and industry bespoil every corner.
I want to know when the geography of the earth changed into our own world.
It's happening right now. The Kings Men are back and stupider than Ever!
What would have happened to the Orcs, Goblins and Trolls?
They would have been hunted by Men and gradually exterminated. The Orcs in particular would be busy fighting petty conflicts between themselves without Sauron and the Nazgul to keep them in line, so the Orcs would soon be seriously depleted shortly after the beginning of the 4th Age. Their death rate would far exceed their 'birth' rate.
It’d have been open season on them. Humans are capable of unspeakable cruelty to each other, do you have any idea how thoroughly we’d annihilate another intelligent species that threatened our survival?
The world forever asunder, would be even lesser had it not been for the transcendental vision J.R.R. Tolkien brought forth to creation.
Tolkien theorized that his world took place many thousands of years before our own in a prehistoric version of Europe. I have seen a theory claiming that Middle-Earth's geography is based on Europe during the Ice Age, when Britain was not yet an isle and was connected to the rest of Europe through Doggerland. I think this is plausible.
Perhaps Aragorn could have ruled his kingdom in a decentralized way, with each of the regions having autonomy. Sort of like the Holy Roman Empire. This would be a good idea for such a large kingdom with many different peoples.
Yes Western Middle Earth was basically Europe in a deep deep primeval prehistoric past.
According to Tolkien we're in the 2023 Year of the 7th age
They lived happily ever after 😅
Here's what might have happened ---- after a few thousand years, the world of Men in Middle-earth who become the
world of Atlantis, Hyperborea, and Lemuria. Then would come the Great Flood of the Bible, then leading to our known world.
Actually Numenor was Tolkien's Atlantis. So that had long past into Arda's history.
@@Alexs.2599 yeah but I wanted to connect Middle-earth to our world through Conan and the Bible.
@@Raelspark Well it's supposed to be our world in a deep deep past. Tolkien stated the our modern world takes place in the 7th Age. Arda is our Earth. Conan has no connection whatsoever with Tolkien's Legendarium however.
One Does Not Simply Live As A Man.
'kingdom of Arnor' There is no kingdom of Arnor. There are no cities or a population to make that kingdom, even the rangers left to join up with Aragorn and they number in the dozens. Barely enough to fill a hamlet. Arnor has been abandoned and in ruins for many centuries. With the population of Gondor depleted from being in decline many years and the war there are barely enough people to populate the cities in Gondor, why go to some far away place that none of them have any ties to. Restoring Osgilliath to its former glory would already be a tall order. Let alone an entire ruined kingdom.
Didn’t all the Orcs & Goblins turn into rodents after the destruction of the ring?
I would preferred dwarfkind over mankind then again I never understood why human were illuvitars favorite
I think because he saw that they had a grand destiny in Middle Earth's future. The population of Men was always larger than that of the dwarves, and they created larger and greater civilizations like Numenor, its successors or Rohan. They played a key part in the fight against Sauron in both the 2nd and 3rd Ages. Elendil, Isildur and Anarion were leaders of the Army of the Last Alliance. It was largely because of Men that the Ring was destroyed. Rohan and Gondor held out for enough time that the Hobbits were able to destroy the Ring. Don't forget that Hobbits are a subgroup of Men. So of course Men could be brutal and violent, like in our world. But they were also very important in defeating Sauron.
@@abcjuniormilton I both agree and disagree even back then and now I have seen very little of the so called greatness of humans.
@@tylerlancarte1568 Are you talking about Middle Earth's humans or humanity in general? In general humans can be naturally inclined to evil. But I believe as a Catholic that God chose to have mercy on us by giving up His Son Jesus to die for our sins. He has faith that humanity is capable of good. I think that following Christianity and a faith can help you be more moral.
@@abcjuniormilton no no your right while I’m a catholic too and yes humans of middle seem more inherently more communal and less prone to spite than us.
What if 1 of the 9 rings of men betrayed the one ring ?
Let’s hope they never do a mercantile capitalism in middle earths future
They might. In the real world the birth of capitalism happened at the end if the Middle Ages & the beginning of the Renaissance, in places like the Italian city-states & Holland. Capitalism is the greatest economic system ever created, though unregulated it can be highly problematic and lead to materialism and too much inequality among other things. I think the government needs to control some industries and should offer social programs such as in welfare and in making jobs. Capitalism needs to work for the people and the nation.
Without capitalism you’re stuck with feudalism or communism, which are pretty awful on their own. No economic system is perfect as long as the basic issue of scarcity exists.
@@cm275 lol capitalism has killed billions and is killing the earth as we speak.
@@abcjuniormilton it’s a shit system that always produces a plutocracy. The greediest bloodthirstiest people will always fill the power vaccimc
Thank you very much. Amazing insight and depth.