It can't be stressed enough how frantic and entertaining the actual plays of BOTC by No Rolls Barred are. In fact I would soooo much love to see and hear the raw footage of the fake play in these How To videos. They look like gold with Jon hosting.
After two months of trying to get all my friends to be available, I am hosting my first BotC day with 12 players today. I’m so excited and nervous, but Holly made this all seem so much easier. Thank you! ❤️
@@christopherwintersvahn6087 it went really well! We had only 9 show up which worked out cause it was easier for me to manage and we ended up playing 3 rounds. Everyone loved it. Met again in March with 12 and it went even better- plus we were able to try out Bad Moon Rising since everyone felt more comfortable.
@@Heynowrcp Ain't that just the way - always invite more people cause 99% of the time at least SOMEONE is gonna be unavailable when it's this big of a game haha
Got the game yesterday and looking to run my first one in a week. Really happy to find this series of videos, extremely helpful. Made all the better that the No Rolls Barred helped! Thanks everyone
After a full year of trying to gather a group to play, I'm hopefully hosting with 6 players tomorrow. Excited and anxious, and Holly certainly helped! Awesome set of videos for us emerging Storytellers. Thanks BOTC!
I storytell for my friends and family. It took a bit to get the first game together, but hear lately I am asked to do it, not the other way around. It's awesome.
Really enjoyable series of tutorials. Well done overall! Small note on 4:56 - You should also warn players on final 4 that it *might* be the final day since executing someone that's not the Demon means the Demon can potentially kill at night and win the game. (Players that don't die during execution or are protected in the night can stop this, but it's important to warn the players.)
This is a warning that is true, and it's one I'll usually give to a group of new players when I'm running a game, but it's not anything that needs to be done. It's a nice little value-add thing that Storytellers can choose to do if the situation merits it, but it's not a rule or anything. Even if the Storyteller doesn't do it, players themselves will figure it out after doing it one time - it's an easy lesson to learn and one that will stay with them forever. We didn't include it in this video because these tutorials are designed to be for absolute Beginner Level Storytellers. As much as possible, we want to avoid overloading them with information and keep things as direct & simple as possible. Once they get a handle on the basics of Storytelling and have run a few games, they'll become savvy to things like this and can add them in at their own discretion. - Evin
@@BloodontheClocktower I fully agree and understand why it wouldn't be in the video. I just would personally feel bad making my players learn the hard way, and I've even seen experienced players (myself included) get so wrapped up in the drama that they forget the risk involved. It feels really bad when you throw a game accidentally.
That's fair enough - it can feel bad to make mistakes, especially when the mistake is so obvious in hindsight. Similar to this mistake you're describing, we've seen evil players new to the game lose on the final day by not tying the vote when they had the votes to do so. We've seen good teams embark on a final day vote that could *only* result in a tie at best, but they do it anyway and hand victory to the evil team. Then, for another example, there are the new good players who don’t immediately intuit that they can completely trust the confirmed Virgin, and withhold crucial information that costs their team the game. (Another thing I’ll typically do with new players whenever the Virgin’s ability activates is publicly explain that this player is 100% confirmed good. This is another nice little value-add, but again not something that needs to be in the basic training video.) There are lots of 'good practice' things that players will pick up over time that aren't obvious to them at first, and that will often swing an early game one way or another as a result of them. If we include the 'final day' 4-player warning in a Storyteller training video, should we include these other things as well? Where do we draw the line? We could end up loading up a new Storyteller with four or five extra things that they “need” to tell their players in order to be a good Storyteller. Every new piece of information we add puts more pressure on a Storyteller, increases the chance they’ll make a “mistake”, and makes the role just that little bit less accessible. Accessibility for new players is always a top priority for BOTC, which is why we left of a lot of these optional ‘value add’ things out of the basic instructional videos. Storytellers who keep playing will pick this stuff up over time, and that’s fine. Also, there are going to be situations where one team or the other have figured out one of these things before their opponents have, and exploit that to their advantage. We’ve seen plenty of new player games where the minion figures out that there’s (usually) only one execution remaining with four players alive, and bait the good team into nominating and executing them. If the Storyteller is *too* helpful then they could end up stepping on a strategy that a player has been working towards. Making mistakes, learning from them, and discovering things for yourself is one of the joys of gaming, and certainly one of the joys of Blood on the Clocktower. This is one of the reasons we recommend that new players play with other new players for their first few games - learning this game together with your own gaming group and figuring out your own ways to play, at your group’s own pace, is a fantastic thing to experience. Tips & hints from a helpful Storyteller in obvious situations are certainly nice and helpful, but overall they’re not necessary in order to provide an enjoyable player experience. Personally, I kind of miss the early days of not knowing this stuff, and going through this game with my friends and figuring all this stuff out together. It was really nice doing that. One of my biggest joys from Clocktower these days is running 'new player' games and seeing the light bulb moments each time as they figure this stuff out. Ultimately, the goal of the game isn't to play perfectly, it's to have fun. Admittedly, for some people, their chief source of fun comes from trying to play 'perfectly', so I don't want to discount that completely. People are generally still trying to play well and trying to win, it's just that having fun should be more important than winning. (Ironically and counter-intuitively, people win more when they play for the fun rather than for the win.) Making mistakes, learning from them, and trying to do better next time is part of that process of having fun. - Evin
I really appreciate your well-thought-out responses, Evin. I'm actually now thinking I might not do final 4 warnings in the future because I think you're right about it falling into that category of things players learn as they play--just like missing/getting a tied vote on the last day. I wouldn't want to give a tip/warning that ruins an evil player's plan. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to me! I only have a few hundred plays and a couple dozen games I've run (and almost no experience over the last couple years), so I still feel like I'm learning how I can grow as a Storyteller for the rare times I can run it, and I highly value getting insight from people like yourself with such a breadth of experience in the game.
Hey, thank you for saying so. And please don't feel like you need to change how you storytell! I think final-four/final-day warnings are great and I do them in most of my new player games. But if you want to run without doing one and see how the new players go, that's fine & good too. :)
3 introductory videos later, "And that's all you need to get started playing Blood on the Clocktower." Still, great series. Loved the hostess. I'd let her storytell for us.
I wanted to understand the rationale behind the voting mechanic. It seems interesting that some players get both extra time (player immediately counterclockwise of the accused) as well as the information about how others are voting. I watched in the video as someone tried to vote "late" and their vote wasn't counted, which is what got me wondering why it's designed this way (clearly on purpose). Why was this chosen instead of e.g. a set of vote tokens that are chosen secretely then revealed simultaneously?
There are a bunch of reasons that voting ended up this way: - It's simple for the Storyteller and the players to track. - It's thematically similar to the spinning hand of a clock. - Having the potential vote count and player intentions public before each vote is useful information. In situations where players are risking their one remaining ghost vote after they've died, they need to have as much information as possible to determine whether it's worth using it. A secret ballot means a lot of ghost votes would be "wasted", making the game less fun. - Player position matters in Clocktower, so having the vote in a particular order means players must strategise around this, which is fun. - Evin
If other players are seeing that someone is voting on themselves it can draw suspicion. Waiting until the last minute to put your hand up on yourself can be a game-winning move for the evil team, if it's the final day and the minion is being voted on. The minion can last minute vote for themself to ensure that their demon doesn't get enough votes to lose the game
It's also part of the social play to purposefully raise or lower your hand last minute Generally drawing suspicion, but could lead to a game winning execution /circumstance
Drunk and poisoned are the same thing, the target's ability doesn't work, if it is an information gathering ability, the info may be false. Drunk is usually the result of good characters' powers, evil team uses poison
Great video! Unfortunately there is one slight issue: you mentioned the win condition for evil was "all players left alive are evil or evil plus one good," but that's not accurate. The win condition for evil is 2 players left alive, one of which being the demon. Realistically this happens if all living players are evil because they won't nominate the Demon, but if there's one good player left they can nominate the Demon and the ghosts can come together to vote them out, so good hasn't lost yet.
Thanks for your helpful comment, and I hate to have to contradict you too hard, but you are not correct. Holly says “one good player and the demon”, which satisfies the evil win condition just fine, with the demon still being alive. 😈
@@BloodontheClocktower To be even more pedantic, the win condition is just that two players are alive! Usually one of them has to be the demon, or else Good would win as well (and wins ties), but not always ;)
@@ColorfulPockets 😅That's for true, but it's also a bit of word salad (yummy yummy). Holly's description works just fine for Storytellers doing their first 1-3 games of Trouble Brewing, and then the rulebook is there to be consumed more deeply when moving beyond this.
I love in the fake gameplay, with the slayer shot, where everyone's celebrating and Tom just looks vaguely impressed. Absolutely hilarious.
Holly is such a good teacher for this series of videos! It's like she's channeling "Daddy Ben"!
It can't be stressed enough how frantic and entertaining the actual plays of BOTC by No Rolls Barred are.
In fact I would soooo much love to see and hear the raw footage of the fake play in these How To videos. They look like gold with Jon hosting.
After two months of trying to get all my friends to be available, I am hosting my first BotC day with 12 players today. I’m so excited and nervous, but Holly made this all seem so much easier. Thank you! ❤️
How did it go? 😀
@@christopherwintersvahn6087 it went really well! We had only 9 show up which worked out cause it was easier for me to manage and we ended up playing 3 rounds. Everyone loved it. Met again in March with 12 and it went even better- plus we were able to try out Bad Moon Rising since everyone felt more comfortable.
@@Heynowrcp Ain't that just the way - always invite more people cause 99% of the time at least SOMEONE is gonna be unavailable when it's this big of a game haha
@@metallsnubben agreed 😄 the second time I planned different setups in case of the no shows.. and no surprise I think at least 1 didn’t show.
Got the game yesterday and looking to run my first one in a week. Really happy to find this series of videos, extremely helpful. Made all the better that the No Rolls Barred helped! Thanks everyone
After a full year of trying to gather a group to play, I'm hopefully hosting with 6 players tomorrow. Excited and anxious, and Holly certainly helped! Awesome set of videos for us emerging Storytellers. Thanks BOTC!
Absolutely LOVING these videos! The presenter is so perfect! 👌🏼I could not be more excited for this game to arrive. 😁
One of the best tutorial video series ever!
I am so hyped to get the game I've seen so many games and I can't wait to be able to host my own games with friends
It’s a whole new (better!) experience playing it yourself. You and your friends are in for a world of fun!
I storytell for my friends and family. It took a bit to get the first game together, but hear lately I am asked to do it, not the other way around. It's awesome.
I can't wait to get my game! I'm going to have an awesome Halloween this year 😈
Really enjoyable series of tutorials. Well done overall!
Small note on 4:56 - You should also warn players on final 4 that it *might* be the final day since executing someone that's not the Demon means the Demon can potentially kill at night and win the game. (Players that don't die during execution or are protected in the night can stop this, but it's important to warn the players.)
This is a warning that is true, and it's one I'll usually give to a group of new players when I'm running a game, but it's not anything that needs to be done. It's a nice little value-add thing that Storytellers can choose to do if the situation merits it, but it's not a rule or anything. Even if the Storyteller doesn't do it, players themselves will figure it out after doing it one time - it's an easy lesson to learn and one that will stay with them forever.
We didn't include it in this video because these tutorials are designed to be for absolute Beginner Level Storytellers. As much as possible, we want to avoid overloading them with information and keep things as direct & simple as possible. Once they get a handle on the basics of Storytelling and have run a few games, they'll become savvy to things like this and can add them in at their own discretion.
- Evin
@@BloodontheClocktower I fully agree and understand why it wouldn't be in the video. I just would personally feel bad making my players learn the hard way, and I've even seen experienced players (myself included) get so wrapped up in the drama that they forget the risk involved. It feels really bad when you throw a game accidentally.
That's fair enough - it can feel bad to make mistakes, especially when the mistake is so obvious in hindsight. Similar to this mistake you're describing, we've seen evil players new to the game lose on the final day by not tying the vote when they had the votes to do so. We've seen good teams embark on a final day vote that could *only* result in a tie at best, but they do it anyway and hand victory to the evil team. Then, for another example, there are the new good players who don’t immediately intuit that they can completely trust the confirmed Virgin, and withhold crucial information that costs their team the game. (Another thing I’ll typically do with new players whenever the Virgin’s ability activates is publicly explain that this player is 100% confirmed good. This is another nice little value-add, but again not something that needs to be in the basic training video.)
There are lots of 'good practice' things that players will pick up over time that aren't obvious to them at first, and that will often swing an early game one way or another as a result of them. If we include the 'final day' 4-player warning in a Storyteller training video, should we include these other things as well? Where do we draw the line? We could end up loading up a new Storyteller with four or five extra things that they “need” to tell their players in order to be a good Storyteller. Every new piece of information we add puts more pressure on a Storyteller, increases the chance they’ll make a “mistake”, and makes the role just that little bit less accessible. Accessibility for new players is always a top priority for BOTC, which is why we left of a lot of these optional ‘value add’ things out of the basic instructional videos. Storytellers who keep playing will pick this stuff up over time, and that’s fine.
Also, there are going to be situations where one team or the other have figured out one of these things before their opponents have, and exploit that to their advantage. We’ve seen plenty of new player games where the minion figures out that there’s (usually) only one execution remaining with four players alive, and bait the good team into nominating and executing them. If the Storyteller is *too* helpful then they could end up stepping on a strategy that a player has been working towards.
Making mistakes, learning from them, and discovering things for yourself is one of the joys of gaming, and certainly one of the joys of Blood on the Clocktower. This is one of the reasons we recommend that new players play with other new players for their first few games - learning this game together with your own gaming group and figuring out your own ways to play, at your group’s own pace, is a fantastic thing to experience. Tips & hints from a helpful Storyteller in obvious situations are certainly nice and helpful, but overall they’re not necessary in order to provide an enjoyable player experience. Personally, I kind of miss the early days of not knowing this stuff, and going through this game with my friends and figuring all this stuff out together. It was really nice doing that. One of my biggest joys from Clocktower these days is running 'new player' games and seeing the light bulb moments each time as they figure this stuff out.
Ultimately, the goal of the game isn't to play perfectly, it's to have fun. Admittedly, for some people, their chief source of fun comes from trying to play 'perfectly', so I don't want to discount that completely. People are generally still trying to play well and trying to win, it's just that having fun should be more important than winning. (Ironically and counter-intuitively, people win more when they play for the fun rather than for the win.) Making mistakes, learning from them, and trying to do better next time is part of that process of having fun.
- Evin
I really appreciate your well-thought-out responses, Evin. I'm actually now thinking I might not do final 4 warnings in the future because I think you're right about it falling into that category of things players learn as they play--just like missing/getting a tied vote on the last day. I wouldn't want to give a tip/warning that ruins an evil player's plan.
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to me! I only have a few hundred plays and a couple dozen games I've run (and almost no experience over the last couple years), so I still feel like I'm learning how I can grow as a Storyteller for the rare times I can run it, and I highly value getting insight from people like yourself with such a breadth of experience in the game.
Hey, thank you for saying so. And please don't feel like you need to change how you storytell! I think final-four/final-day warnings are great and I do them in most of my new player games. But if you want to run without doing one and see how the new players go, that's fine & good too. :)
Just ran my first game using this! Amazing resource
3 introductory videos later, "And that's all you need to get started playing Blood on the Clocktower."
Still, great series. Loved the hostess. I'd let her storytell for us.
I wanted to understand the rationale behind the voting mechanic. It seems interesting that some players get both extra time (player immediately counterclockwise of the accused) as well as the information about how others are voting. I watched in the video as someone tried to vote "late" and their vote wasn't counted, which is what got me wondering why it's designed this way (clearly on purpose). Why was this chosen instead of e.g. a set of vote tokens that are chosen secretely then revealed simultaneously?
There are a bunch of reasons that voting ended up this way:
- It's simple for the Storyteller and the players to track.
- It's thematically similar to the spinning hand of a clock.
- Having the potential vote count and player intentions public before each vote is useful information. In situations where players are risking their one remaining ghost vote after they've died, they need to have as much information as possible to determine whether it's worth using it. A secret ballot means a lot of ghost votes would be "wasted", making the game less fun.
- Player position matters in Clocktower, so having the vote in a particular order means players must strategise around this, which is fun.
- Evin
@@BloodontheClocktower I love that one of the reasons is just "Evin"
If other players are seeing that someone is voting on themselves it can draw suspicion. Waiting until the last minute to put your hand up on yourself can be a game-winning move for the evil team, if it's the final day and the minion is being voted on. The minion can last minute vote for themself to ensure that their demon doesn't get enough votes to lose the game
It's also part of the social play to purposefully raise or lower your hand last minute
Generally drawing suspicion, but could lead to a game winning execution /circumstance
How long is generally suggested to allow before the first nomination?
Depends on the player count but I usually do 10-12 minutes. You may also reduce that on the final day to create more excitement.
TOO LATE BROOKE :D
Hello will the character token images on wiki updated to the final version?
Yeah heck yeah
@@BloodontheClocktower can't wait that amazing art on the page. Also for more expansion
I need to some these clips with the volume. 🤣
So just to be clear, someone who is poisoned would have their information not work correctly, while the drunk receives unreliable information?
Drunk and poisoned are the same thing, the target's ability doesn't work, if it is an information gathering ability, the info may be false. Drunk is usually the result of good characters' powers, evil team uses poison
Great video! Unfortunately there is one slight issue: you mentioned the win condition for evil was "all players left alive are evil or evil plus one good," but that's not accurate. The win condition for evil is 2 players left alive, one of which being the demon. Realistically this happens if all living players are evil because they won't nominate the Demon, but if there's one good player left they can nominate the Demon and the ghosts can come together to vote them out, so good hasn't lost yet.
Thanks for your helpful comment, and I hate to have to contradict you too hard, but you are not correct. Holly says “one good player and the demon”, which satisfies the evil win condition just fine, with the demon still being alive. 😈
@@BloodontheClocktower Oh I misheard then, my bad
@@BloodontheClocktower To be even more pedantic, the win condition is just that two players are alive! Usually one of them has to be the demon, or else Good would win as well (and wins ties), but not always ;)
@@ColorfulPockets 😅That's for true, but it's also a bit of word salad (yummy yummy). Holly's description works just fine for Storytellers doing their first 1-3 games of Trouble Brewing, and then the rulebook is there to be consumed more deeply when moving beyond this.