@@bjornokant4075 That was my idea back in the 80's, I was also thinking 'big bang' motor FZR1000 with new camshafts to fire as two twins. Probably lucky I never had the time money and commitment though?
@@1crazypj I mean, I get the feeling! Got this thought of putting a T7 engine in a modified TT600R chassi if that engine gives up someday.. Big bang with other twins sounds interesting..
I worked in Suzuki/Yamaha dealers in the 80's and was riding British Enduro's so followed lot of off road motorcycle races and rallies. Did one of the first modified Super Tenere's for a customer, upped the top speed from 117mph to 137mph (guy got a ticket while 'touring' in Holland to prove it) Did conversion from KM to MPH when he got home and was actually quite proud of the 'achievement. He rode with a bunch of ex racers, all still had international racing licence's from ACU and FIM. Sold Super Tenere when he got back as it was too slow and bought a Ducati 916 (also too slow) I remember he bought a Kawasaki 900 mid 90's. I switched jobs so lost touch
i think that every time you uploade a new video... the quality is just outstanding, the research, the story telling, the editing everything is so incredible
I recently bought the ktm 950sm and it is such a heavy bike, and yet KTM did try to use the base for their Paris Dakar project. Crazy! Imagine this, even more bananas, the riders must have been men of steel.
The 950 was developed for the Dakar rally. They didn't just try to use it, they won the Rally first try in 2002. It was used for another two years but didn't win. Then the two cyl bikes got banned. The 950 adv was claimed to be 95% identical with the Dakar bikes and if you look at pictures you see that it's probably correct. The engine in your bike is identical to the Dakar racer, even the same carburators.
their glory was in the attempt - great video fella - these old stories remind me of my youth growing up racing and watching all the crazy dakar from the 80s , thankyou
I'm not sure how "factory" it was but their was also a French 850 P-twin, TRX/TDM motor, built for Dakar. It's great that their are big twins getting back into Rallye and dirty shenanigans.. Another excellent vid, thank you.
At the beginning I was thinking okay a 4 cylinder, detuned for reliability and comparable gas mileage to a thumper tuned out of it's mind. Then it hit me that french pride. The dude wanted a rocket ship no ifs and or buts.
Yeah, 4 cylinders in an off-road context generally get pretty bad traction and end up fishtailing violently, even with a set of modern Dirtbike Tires. The only context where they excel is sand riding with a paddle - they're missles in a straight line, just as they are on long straight roads. Still though, it's cool that they took on this project, I never even knew about it. Great video!
not necessarily i ride my 4 cylinder sportbike on gravel roads regularly and it only fishtails when you want it to. keeping traction with it is simply a matter of using the powerband properly which is easy to do with a good rider
@DoctorMotorcycle is Right I offroaded a Yamaha 4 cylinder all the way through Iceland and the some how it just has so mutch more wheel spin then any similarly powered 2 cylinder
@@FreeMilesMCbecause traditional flat plane 4 bangers have always a cylinder firing. singles only 1/4 of the time, twins half the time. cross plane inline 4 like in the R1 are a little better for regaining traction and controlling rear wheel slide.
@@matchu13it's different. you're using throttle control or upshifting to avoid breaking traction proper competitive off road riding uses power slides thus doesn't work well with inline 4.
@@geemy9675I just went on a 10km ride on gravel roads and I've come to the conclusion that you might just be bad at riding. Because I can slide the bike whenever I want to and I can get traction whenever I want to
I built and raced a Genesis engined FZX off road bike which I called my Dirt Fazer. It was an awesome dirt bike on everything except technical trails. I got an eigth place in the Mini Pine Enduro.
Dude I've been binge watching your videos lately and I have to say thank you for such detailed and well produced videos 😊 you deserve more subscribers 👌♥️
Yamaha brought one to their history of the Tenere show last year at the adventure bike rally in Germany, a fascinating monster right up my street! I was involved in enduro at that time and never really understood the thinking behind it as they still had in 1984 a parallel twin in production (the XS650) which was a popular sidecar motocross engine which taken out to 920cc pushed out 80 to 90hp and the V-twin Virago range as well.
The V-twins would have a difficult time due to cooling of the rear cylinder. It could be a struggle on the TR 1 in hot urban traffic, so racing it across an african desert wouldn’t help.
@@kasperkjrsgaard1447 Probably the shaft drive was more of a problem though there was one raced in the sidecar MX championships with a chain conversion. The cooling, well the Cagiva Elefant with the Ducati engine managed by increasing the oil capacity and cooler. The XS engine even though it was old would have been better probably, it was proven and reliable even tuned to death. Sensibly Yamaha Japan just pulled out for a few years then came back with a modern purpose-designed twin and cleaned up.
@@jimtitt3571 The TR 1 was a chain driven 980 cc, so in theory it could fill the bill. The XS 650 could have been a sensible choice, but .... 🤷🏼♂️ Don’t forget that the Cagive / Ducati was a “L-twin” with much better cooling to the rear cylinder.
I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen this video! 260 Kg (573 lb) motorcycle racing in the sand! How would he have done on a 247 lb Honda CR 500? What are the winners racing on today?
One thing to concider, is the fact that a powerstroke is happening every 90 degrees of the driven wheel with a 4 cylinder engine. That means there are less and also way smaller gaps between the forward punches on the wheel, so it can't settle to get new grip. An experienced rider can cope with that, but it is still a big disadventage and the reason why there aren't commercial offroaders in this configuration. Still very interesting concept.
Well done, cheers mate! Trying the impossible given the circumstances (I WANT TO WIN this one!!!) certainly is adorable. However, a man so experienced like Olivier must have known the challenges as well, like insane weight (260kgs???), fuel consumption, traction issues, etc.pp. The BMW with half the power and much better weight distribution, better center of gravity made in the end. Sheer power ain´t all as we know better. Still, the man is unique. Thanks for again for sharing and the work put into your video!👍
Which is why we don't see BMW R1250 or 1300 GS, or Pan Am 1250's doing Dakar at 260kg. I have a Pan Am, I have ridden off road with it, but I would not take it on sand, I rather get my old 1974 Yamaha DT400 and take that out.
They did try the TDR250 twin 2 stroke from Yamaha, powerful and light but apparently the fuel consumption was a nightmare so I believe the 750 2-stroke would have been worst.
@fidelcatsro6948 Yes I have a TDR250 on a 2015 test by MCN they test fuel consumption 39mpg in town 30mpg on the freeway and a low 24mpg in sand in off road use, that is heavy, mine stays around 30mpg +-.
Beeing 57 now, a former hobby-enduro racer having some decent success in the late 80's and early 90's I always watched the dakar (until some years ago). So who left an impression to me? Sure Peterhansel did, Gaston Rahier as well. But who talks nowadys about Roma, about Walkner, Sunderland etc. let alone who took 2nd places... Excpet Jean Claude Olivier and few others. For those to whom the dakar meant more. Even though I am sure Olivier had all the comfort and more of a Works-supportet rider (machanics, rest etc) These were the crazy, admired and beloved heroes of our time. However, the real heroes are and have been the ones that raced in the marathon class (or box-class as they are called today?). Today the dakar appaers to be just a matter of money more than before, with 1st class RVs better than any 5-star hotel even for 2nd and 3rd row riders. No real devotion, spirit, ambitions desired (sure, it still takes some gutts, but compared to those days.. nope). These days, those guys have been and still are the real the spirit and real heros of dakar. However, I am not really complaining. It's as always: When you're looking back it all seems to better in history. No it wasn't... But times are changing, and the challnges change. That's sisimplas it IS. Dakar is over and out, the days of glory of dakar, of burning fossile fuels for fun are simply over.
They stroked the crankshaft for the extra torque to 911cc; not hard to realize once you see the peak hp of 80 was less than the old output of 90hp. Basic Engineering 101…..
Did you mean they stroked the engine for more torque or are you saying because of the overall displacement increase the torque rose, was kind of confused when you said they bored it.
@@KRANKiT You know hypothetically speaking nowadays I feel like they could 100% do it in a way that makes sense. Make the engine/trans case out of ceramic matrix composite, the head out of forged carbon fiber with steel sleeve inserts and a DLC/wire arc coat. Run titanium rods and crank to save rotational mass too. They can slim line the engine by getting rid of idler pulleys like what BMW did with the new S1000RR. Lastly the could dump even more weight by going with a camcon head to eliminate the gears/chain needed to run traditional valvetrain.With all this I can see a 4 cyl engine weighing 75lbs? It would still have an odd balance but depending on how it is rotated in the chassis you could definitely make a bike like this work. It would not qualify for Dakar due to restrictions but there are other rally/enduro events.
An Early 1980's "Modified" HONDA 450 "El-Sinore"(4-Geared 2-Stroke), Is TheBike I Woulda Tried That Race With!🤔 (Or a "Modified" 3-Wheeled HONDA 250-R "WidowMaker") Since 4-Wheeled ATV's Didn't Exist Until TheSUZUKI 125 Quad-Runner. (& I Had One of Those!) My 1st ATV.
Looks a bit like the modern adventure bikes, way too big engine, crap handling, really heavy... In this case a skilled rider was doing this. In the case of a modern fat overweight bmw gs adventure bike it's average joe on it without the skills to ride even more than a bit of gravel. And still it is becoming the biggest market in the motorcycle industry, all people without skills dreaming of being a real offroad racer.
I guess you don't understand the concept of evolution? Sometimes you gotta try things that I've never been done just to see if they work. The good ideas continue the bad ones die out. There's no foolishness involved, just curiosity
I had a mate who put a FZ750 engine into his supertenere back in the 90's. It was a beast until the frame broke...
Sounds familiar :))
That was exactly my idea of a project when I saw this video..
@@bjornokant4075 That was my idea back in the 80's, I was also thinking 'big bang' motor FZR1000 with new camshafts to fire as two twins.
Probably lucky I never had the time money and commitment though?
@@1crazypj I mean, I get the feeling! Got this thought of putting a T7 engine in a modified TT600R chassi if that engine gives up someday..
Big bang with other twins sounds interesting..
What a crazy idea. I love it. These videos are great!
What brand has the best tasting crayon, Jake?
Asking for a friend
Jakey Jake… kinda like your MT ADV huh? … even down to running on two cylinders 😢
If only you wouldn’t be so cheesy… great work
Thanks! Yeah, the more I look into this side of motorcycling, the most crazy stories I seem to find… Can’t complain
I worked in Suzuki/Yamaha dealers in the 80's and was riding British Enduro's so followed lot of off road motorcycle races and rallies.
Did one of the first modified Super Tenere's for a customer, upped the top speed from 117mph to 137mph (guy got a ticket while 'touring' in Holland to prove it)
Did conversion from KM to MPH when he got home and was actually quite proud of the 'achievement.
He rode with a bunch of ex racers, all still had international racing licence's from ACU and FIM.
Sold Super Tenere when he got back as it was too slow and bought a Ducati 916 (also too slow)
I remember he bought a Kawasaki 900 mid 90's.
I switched jobs so lost touch
For all who likes crazy dakar stories, take a look at Cyril Neveu vs Hubert Auriol in dakar 1987. Crazy rivality all along the race. Nice video ^^
i think that every time you uploade a new video... the quality is just outstanding, the research, the story telling, the editing everything is so incredible
Appreciate it!
I Think It Is A Great Lesson In Perseverance. Thank You.
I recently bought the ktm 950sm and it is such a heavy bike, and yet KTM did try to use the base for their Paris Dakar project. Crazy! Imagine this, even more bananas, the riders must have been men of steel.
The 950 was developed for the Dakar rally. They didn't just try to use it, they won the Rally first try in 2002. It was used for another two years but didn't win. Then the two cyl bikes got banned. The 950 adv was claimed to be 95% identical with the Dakar bikes and if you look at pictures you see that it's probably correct. The engine in your bike is identical to the Dakar racer, even the same carburators.
Good story.
I like your history lessons 😎
From someone who started riding in the 70’s and still is, it makes me happy.
To my eyes that motorcycle's design is visual perfection. It's sad that manufacturers do not make'em like that anymore these days.
their glory was in the attempt - great video fella - these old stories remind me of my youth growing up racing and watching all the crazy dakar from the 80s , thankyou
I'm not sure how "factory" it was but their was also a French 850 P-twin, TRX/TDM motor, built for Dakar.
It's great that their are big twins getting back into Rallye and dirty shenanigans..
Another excellent vid, thank you.
At the beginning I was thinking okay a 4 cylinder, detuned for reliability and comparable gas mileage to a thumper tuned out of it's mind. Then it hit me that french pride. The dude wanted a rocket ship no ifs and or buts.
Great work as always, I liked also the Meoni video. One good subject would be enduro rider Mika Ahola who died 2012
Yeah, 4 cylinders in an off-road context generally get pretty bad traction and end up fishtailing violently, even with a set of modern Dirtbike Tires. The only context where they excel is sand riding with a paddle - they're missles in a straight line, just as they are on long straight roads. Still though, it's cool that they took on this project, I never even knew about it. Great video!
not necessarily i ride my 4 cylinder sportbike on gravel roads regularly and it only fishtails when you want it to. keeping traction with it is simply a matter of using the powerband properly which is easy to do with a good rider
@DoctorMotorcycle is Right I offroaded a Yamaha 4 cylinder all the way through Iceland and the some how it just has so mutch more wheel spin then any similarly powered 2 cylinder
@@FreeMilesMCbecause traditional flat plane 4 bangers have always a cylinder firing. singles only 1/4 of the time, twins half the time. cross plane inline 4 like in the R1 are a little better for regaining traction and controlling rear wheel slide.
@@matchu13it's different. you're using throttle control or upshifting to avoid breaking traction
proper competitive off road riding uses power slides thus doesn't work well with inline 4.
@@geemy9675I just went on a 10km ride on gravel roads and I've come to the conclusion that you might just be bad at riding. Because I can slide the bike whenever I want to and I can get traction whenever I want to
A true racer high on ambition and a never say no attitude.
Racing is a pseudo war of a sort after all, a lot of brilliant engineering innovation takes place in wartime.
I love it all, this is what you are meant to do. I look forward to each one.
I built and raced a Genesis engined FZX off road bike which I called my Dirt Fazer. It was an awesome dirt bike on everything except technical trails. I got an eigth place in the Mini Pine Enduro.
Superb film!
You need to turn all these stories into a book!
maybe one day... for now, videos are all you're getting :))
Congrats and daily. A wonderfully told story.
Thank you!
Another excellent episode
Such an amazing video. Greetings from Brazil.
Dude I've been binge watching your videos lately and I have to say thank you for such detailed and well produced videos 😊 you deserve more subscribers 👌♥️
Appreciate it!
They should build a XS 650 off road bike... this motor is fantastic....
Tenere was instant hit in Portugal back in the day when came out… machine!! 💪❤️
Yamaha brought one to their history of the Tenere show last year at the adventure bike rally in Germany, a fascinating monster right up my street! I was involved in enduro at that time and never really understood the thinking behind it as they still had in 1984 a parallel twin in production (the XS650) which was a popular sidecar motocross engine which taken out to 920cc pushed out 80 to 90hp and the V-twin Virago range as well.
The V-twins would have a difficult time due to cooling of the rear cylinder. It could be a struggle on the TR 1 in hot urban traffic, so racing it across an african desert wouldn’t help.
@@kasperkjrsgaard1447 Probably the shaft drive was more of a problem though there was one raced in the sidecar MX championships with a chain conversion. The cooling, well the Cagiva Elefant with the Ducati engine managed by increasing the oil capacity and cooler. The XS engine even though it was old would have been better probably, it was proven and reliable even tuned to death.
Sensibly Yamaha Japan just pulled out for a few years then came back with a modern purpose-designed twin and cleaned up.
@@jimtitt3571 The TR 1 was a chain driven 980 cc, so in theory it could fill the bill. The XS 650 could have been a sensible choice, but .... 🤷🏼♂️
Don’t forget that the Cagive / Ducati was a “L-twin” with much better cooling to the rear cylinder.
Do Polski dotarłeś tak trzymać 👍
I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen this video! 260 Kg (573 lb) motorcycle racing in the sand! How would he have done on a 247 lb Honda CR 500? What are the winners racing on today?
This channel is so slept on
Thank you very much for all the history of motorcycles!
Thats the childhood dream, drive your crazy prototype full throttle. He won in my books.
One thing to concider, is the fact that a powerstroke is happening every 90 degrees of the driven wheel with a 4 cylinder engine.
That means there are less and also way smaller gaps between the forward punches on the wheel, so it can't settle to get new grip.
An experienced rider can cope with that, but it is still a big disadventage and the reason why there aren't commercial offroaders in this configuration.
Still very interesting concept.
1. It was a 4-stroke engine
2. The flywheel and the rear wheel have considerable moments of inertia
Just the right amount of dramatization! Love it, man!
Hell yes, another great video man. You’re gonna blow up in no time
Thank you!
Its a shame the Dakar rules are so restrictive for bikes these days :(
It's an issue that plauges 99٪ of motorsports.
Well done, cheers mate! Trying the impossible given the circumstances (I WANT TO WIN this one!!!) certainly is adorable. However, a man so experienced like Olivier must have known the challenges as well, like insane weight (260kgs???), fuel consumption, traction issues, etc.pp. The BMW with half the power and much better weight distribution, better center of gravity made in the end. Sheer power ain´t all as we know better. Still, the man is unique. Thanks for again for sharing and the work put into your video!👍
Excellently researched and professionally presented, well done 👍🏽
Thanks for telling us this story! Keep up the good work 👍
Keep with it man. These videos are great. Yamaha Tenere my #1 fav bike.
Which is why we don't see BMW R1250 or 1300 GS, or Pan Am 1250's doing Dakar at 260kg. I have a Pan Am, I have ridden off road with it, but I would not take it on sand, I rather get my old 1974 Yamaha DT400 and take that out.
No, it's because regulations at the Dakar rally hugely cater to big manufacturers and restrict bikes and trucks to prevent them to triumph over cars.
inline 3 would be the sweet spot !
Great video as always!!!
I like this channel. I had no idea this bike was a thing.
Loving the content.
two good references for these bikes are the Japanese magazines "Racers" Volume 43 and "Bikers Station" No. 187
Nice video! Make one about XT600!!
my cat says
they should have used a TZ750cc 2 stroke engine in that frame!
They did try the TDR250 twin 2 stroke from Yamaha, powerful and light but apparently the fuel consumption was a nightmare so I believe the 750 2-stroke would have been worst.
@@pietervanbreda4360 i concur...2 strokes drink more
@fidelcatsro6948 Yes I have a TDR250 on a 2015 test by MCN they test fuel consumption 39mpg in town 30mpg on the freeway and a low 24mpg in sand in off road use, that is heavy, mine stays around 30mpg +-.
Beeing 57 now, a former hobby-enduro racer having some decent success in the late 80's and early 90's I always watched the dakar (until some years ago). So who left an impression to me? Sure Peterhansel did, Gaston Rahier as well. But who talks nowadys about Roma, about Walkner, Sunderland etc. let alone who took 2nd places... Excpet Jean Claude Olivier and few others. For those to whom the dakar meant more. Even though I am sure Olivier had all the comfort and more of a Works-supportet rider (machanics, rest etc) These were the crazy, admired and beloved heroes of our time. However, the real heroes are and have been the ones that raced in the marathon class (or box-class as they are called today?). Today the dakar appaers to be just a matter of money more than before, with 1st class RVs better than any 5-star hotel even for 2nd and 3rd row riders. No real devotion, spirit, ambitions desired (sure, it still takes some gutts, but compared to those days.. nope). These days, those guys have been and still are the real the spirit and real heros of dakar.
However, I am not really complaining. It's as always: When you're looking back it all seems to better in history. No it wasn't... But times are changing, and the challnges change. That's sisimplas it IS.
Dakar is over and out, the days of glory of dakar, of burning fossile fuels for fun are simply over.
Thank you!
Great video about something special that sadly didn't go well.
Great video!
Are any of these 4 cyl bikes on display in a museum?
I wonder where these bikes are today?
They stroked the crankshaft for the extra torque to 911cc; not hard to realize once you see the peak hp of 80 was less than the old output of 90hp. Basic Engineering 101…..
Give me some dirt bars and dirt tires and I'll take any fizzer6 any where
Should tried twin or a V4 750cc 😊
Did you mean they stroked the engine for more torque or are you saying because of the overall displacement increase the torque rose, was kind of confused when you said they bored it.
Yes, they stroked it and also re-tuned it to make more torque at lower revs, and that as a consequence meant a bit less top end horsepower.
@@KRANKiT You know hypothetically speaking nowadays I feel like they could 100% do it in a way that makes sense. Make the engine/trans case out of ceramic matrix composite, the head out of forged carbon fiber with steel sleeve inserts and a DLC/wire arc coat. Run titanium rods and crank to save rotational mass too. They can slim line the engine by getting rid of idler pulleys like what BMW did with the new S1000RR. Lastly the could dump even more weight by going with a camcon head to eliminate the gears/chain needed to run traditional valvetrain.With all this I can see a 4 cyl engine weighing 75lbs? It would still have an odd balance but depending on how it is rotated in the chassis you could definitely make a bike like this work. It would not qualify for Dakar due to restrictions but there are other rally/enduro events.
An Early 1980's "Modified" HONDA 450 "El-Sinore"(4-Geared 2-Stroke), Is TheBike I Woulda Tried That Race With!🤔
(Or a "Modified" 3-Wheeled HONDA 250-R "WidowMaker")
Since 4-Wheeled ATV's Didn't Exist Until TheSUZUKI 125 Quad-Runner.
(& I Had One of Those!)
My 1st ATV.
Sounds like a Tiger 800
you're funny😆
do Jawa history, please :)
First!!...just saying Yamaha is the best!!
Test/review the AJP please
Paris-Dakar...the race out of France...
That's it,time to sub
KTMs 950 rally proved it could be done and was even banned from Dakar for being too fast so yes it could be done
Fascinating! Sub'd
Yamaha are freaks ! i like them 🤣
I think the chassis was the problem not the Engine
Gods bike.
A classic case of "It's better to try and fail, than it is to never try at all..."
It was not stupid, it just needed less weight 🗿 I'm sure that you could get it to under 140kg + fuel given the resources😏
If you remove the rider! 😅
Walaweh ❗✌🏻
Bro u kinda look like the littel brother of iman the big millionaire youtuber guy
What do you mean my T7 wouldn’t take the R1M engine😂
I’m not saying that ... gimme a call if ever attempt it :))
Love the history and story telling. But the dramatisation and script writing needs to chill please guys.
It's all good as far as I'm concerned. 👍
Nah... I liked it all.
@@johnnyblue4799I agree!
He does a fine job. Relax.
Excellent script and delivery. Enjoyed this.
The 4 cylinders project was very stupid.
JCO
Looks a bit like the modern adventure bikes, way too big engine, crap handling, really heavy... In this case a skilled rider was doing this.
In the case of a modern fat overweight bmw gs adventure bike it's average joe on it without the skills to ride even more than a bit of gravel.
And still it is becoming the biggest market in the motorcycle industry, all people without skills dreaming of being a real offroad racer.
today the modern bikes are the same big expensive fat cows that cant turn or do dirt.... but is the trend because egos need bigger..... engines....
Yamaha were foolish to build this.
I guess you don't understand the concept of evolution? Sometimes you gotta try things that I've never been done just to see if they work. The good ideas continue the bad ones die out. There's no foolishness involved, just curiosity
worst fkin story ever. He achieved NOTHING.
He did get a 2nd in a Paris Dakar, that's something.