I absolutely despise using Bluetooth on Windows. It's never been good for me, it's never been stable. So the fact that these utilize a a Lightspeed dongle is actually a major selling point to me. I get the initial "that's dumb" reaction but ngl, I'm into it.
yeah same here, i have to turn off the mic on any pair of wireless earbuds or headphones to be able to hear anything while in a discord call, its super annoying.
It’s really good on windows 11 though. It’s most likely your Bluetooth card or driver that are terrible. Try updating your driver and then using bluetooth
It sure can if you're using a new enough Bluetooth standard on both ends there's different modes that Bluetooth can run in the most basic for phone calls what you're talkin about why would that need to be stereo phone calls aren't stereo
@@profosist How about gaming? You want to keep the sound quality of the game while also using the microphone. In any case, windows at least and from my experience use the dogshit bluetooth profile that hugely degrades audio quality when using the microphone.
I got these for the way they mold to your ears but man, it’s so nice that they can *also* work on your computer with low latency and the audio quality doesn’t get destroyed when you’re using the mic (cough Bluetooth)
Is the mic better than what this video showed when using the dongle? James sounded very much like it was recorded on a phone, and hence ruined by A2DP.
@@MentalEdge It's not about the mic quality, it's about the audio playback quality. With Bluetooth earbuds, you can't record and listen to music at the same time because the sound quality will be atrocious (i.e. mono and it sounds like the music you hear when you're put on hold).
@@RegBinary I know. A2DP works by completely destroying the audio bitrate so the bluetooth signal can fit an audio stream going in both directions. That's why BOTH playback and recording get destroyed on bluetooth. I'm wondering if the mic is improved by the lightspeed connection, as well, or if it's just a bad mic.
@@MentalEdge Unfortunately it's pretty accurate. IMO it sounds better than bluetooth headsets I've tried but yeah, not great. And I feel like I have to speak up somewhat loud for it to register my voice, although I'm not sure if that's some noise suppression thing going on in my computer I have to turn off.
I wish the ear molding tech would be implemented in something like the XM4 earbuds. I liked how they sound, I liked the controls and pretty much everything about them, except the pain they would create in my ear overtime.
Exactly, the XM3 and XM4 buds are awesome but their confort is definitely a flaw. So either Logitech releases great sounding buds (don't hold your breath...) or Sony releases ear molding buds too (but maybe there is a trademark or something...).
had the same problem with xm4s. after hour or so my ear canals would hurt from being pressured too much. buying 3rd party silicon eartips have solved this problem for me, would advise
@@Stanatak I tried, and for me, it didn't do anything. The biggest downside to the XM4 for me is that you can't really sleep with them either, which would be nice for my tinnitus
@@ProvencalG Yeah, I just wish they'd have the ear molding tech and a slimer profile so you can sleep with them and they wouldn't hurt you. I suffer from tinnitus and that would be a nice to have "feature". There might be a patent pending for the ear molding tech, but then again, there wouldn't be 2 companies doing it.
Man, I've been waiting for something like this. Low-latency TWS with a dongle for PC gaming. I love using my AirPods at my desk when I'm using Mac devices for work, and I sorely miss that freedom when I switch to my PC to play games. My IEMs probably beat these when it comes to price:performance ratio, but being untethered when I need to step away for a second would be hella nice
I use the Logitech G PRO X Wireless Gaming Headset, you may want to consider that over these earbuds. The headset is cheaper while having a better mic, probably better audio, and much more battery life. The dream would be these earbuds with a good mic and 10+ hours of battery life but that's unfortunately not the case.
I'm pretty sure there's a converter out there that would work with a PC. Might be a better priced option for you to get one of those and turn your wired earbuds into wireless. Definitely need to avoid BT only though, Windows has never figured out how to play nice with that. Finding one with a dongle is the way to go, if you can.
@@zoopa9988 I personally just don’t like the weight of headsets after an hour or so. These seem like a good middle ground especially since I have a usb mic
There are a few options for low latency buds now. I'm using the Soundcore VRP10's I don't play too many twitchy titles, so I don't have a great eye for latency, but they are spec'd in the same kind of 30ms range at about 30% the price. I like the idea of that custom fit though, and the app looks a lot more robust with these.
I hope this earbud molding tech makes its way to more earbuds, regular tips always end up either working their way out or just cause discomfort for me. I used Comply foam tips for a while until they kept breaking down to the point I was buying new ones every six months A one time mold would be fantastic but even if I had to go through the molding process once every couple weeks or months that's still better than ear pain or buying new tips
You might want to try the Etymotic ER2XR or in general IEMs that support triple flange eartips if you're having trouble with IEMs staying in. It does take 2 or 3 days to get used to having your ears probed but the sound isolation, comfort and stability are really worth it.
Same! I have smaller ear canals and the only earbuds that I've found to be comfortable are the 1st and 2nd gen Airpods. The rubber tips never fit into my ears and they constantly fall out.
Light speed is a branded term they use for a standard 2.4GHz connection. Pretty much any headset that connects via 2.4Ghz wireless will have the same amount of latency. That latency being pretty much unnoticeable. Source: The fact that 2.4Ghz has been the standard for like a decade. If you read their actual copy they even mention it's just a 2.4Ghz connection.
wait if its so, then why does only recently (around 2018-2020) do wireless gaming mouses catch up with wired ones in terms of latency. Why are there any progress in 2.4ghz latency at all if the standard had been the same. I know it should make sense but i couldn't find a source proving me wrong... Can you explain it to me? @@AubryRugBurn
250 euro's, less than 7 hours battery life, no atmos or other spacial audio codec, lousy microphone. If this was around 60 euro I might consider it, but this is a garbage product.
@@squidwardo7074 Would battery life really be that much of a problem? I’ve never gamed for 7 hours straight without at least a few 15-20 minute breaks throughout. I’d just put the buds in the case during that time and I’m sure that would add a lot of time if other earbud charging cases are anything to go by.
Can you give an alternative to this product? One that is low latency wireless, has mediocre sound quality (by average people standards), and is in ear.
I have normal nongaming senheiser buds and gaming with them turned out to be surprisingly enjoyable. Only wish they lasted longer but if you're not irresponsible with keeping them charged it isn't a often a problem. They charge pretty quickly anyway.
@@CptAloevera anything pve or pvp and racing sims, doesn't matter. I don't hear any delay in the sound. Although the tmw3 buds turned out to be a piece of crap in terms of longevity and reliability, do not recommend.
biggest reason that people should realize with this: the Fits are the first (correct me if i'm wrong) low latency, wireless earbuds that can support audio and voice due to the dongle. that being said, this is something gamers that wear glasses should rejoice at. i personally use this because gaming headsets cause a lot of pain from the headset pushing the glasses into my head. i used to use a USB DAC with wired earbuds and an external mic. while that's still good, i do occasionally LAN with friends and bringing the Fits around is easier
They have tax for no competition in this space of really low latency wireless earbuds. The same happened when Logitech was the first company to offer wireless mice with comparable performance to wired. Other companies just played catch up.
$230 for a shitty mic and, at least from James' description, pretty not great audio (Which as an owner of the UE Fits, I can say that would be on brand). For that money you could get a stand mic and some decent IEMs if you don't care about wireless.
Seems like a comparison between soundcore vr p10 and these Logitech earbuds especially for the price difference. The soundcore buds switch audio automatically from phone to dongle. Convenient when you have a phone call coming in. Works on ps5 also
For folks who are on topic (obviously not the author of this video): actually, Logitech puts separate USB dongle in the package not for additional connection option due to lack of Bluetooth capabilities on your device. This dongle is simply the only option if you want to get quality sound for gaming. Otherwise you will have an awful hands free mode via Bluetooth connection on Windows PC which totally ruins sound quality. And yes, you probably can't fix that by searching the right configs in settings or installing a driver. So, this is a kinda dirty hack from Logitech to overcome hands free mode on windows :)
I've never thought that people could have issues about a wireless dongle, I've always thought it's amazing. Bluetooth on Windows is finnicky for me, but wireless dongles behave almost just as good as cables. these look amazing, and if I hadn't just gotten a brand new Razer headset, I'd run to get these.
I was interested in these, due to the comfort they deliver over "casual" sessions on the PC, where you just browse the web, or watch videos and don't feel like wearing a headset. That being said at an MSRP of 230$ or 250€ it is a very tough sell, given for that price I can just grab Air Pods Pros, entry level-decent audiohpile headphones, or a high end top of the line gaming headset. These seem like an awkward niche product at best.
Why would you get airpods? Sony has better ANC and sennheiser blows them away in audio for the same price. Apple, like usual, has no actual pros. Other brands do it better,
I gotta admit, this is a more worthwhile product than I was expecting. The individualized ear molding sounds useful, and it's awesome to have a genuinely low-latency option. Bluetooth latency is bad, no matter what. Plus, Logitech already does low-latency, dongle-based audio pretty well with their gaming headsets.
I primarily use my earbuds at my desk, but I don't use wired headphones because it's nice to be able to get up and do other stuff while still being on a call/ listening to music/ getting notifications/ etc etc. Plus I hate cables SO MUCH.
I've owned these since they came out, and I honestly consider buying a second pair every time I have to throw them in to charge. I often forget or don't leave time for them to charge because I use them *all* the time. They're fantastic for gaming (I mostly play FPS and don't notice any latency, unlike regular BT), and so incredibly comfortable that I don't mind leaving them in. I switch these out with JBL Quantum TWS when they need to charge, but the JBLs are way less comfortable and have half the battery life the Fits do. Highly recommend if you can swallow the price tag. ALSO, IF YOU NEED EAR TIP REPLACEMENTS, THE UE FITS TIP REPLACEMENTS WORK.
How long does it take to charge? For me the battery is the nail in the coffin (not to mention it's $230). At least with a keyboard or headset you can plug it in and still use it normally.
With the advent of the steam deck and the upcoming Asus handheld pc gaming thing, wireless earbuds for gaming on the go could be a major attraction. Not to mention some people don’t like headphones for one reason or the other and would rather use earbuds that may fit more comfortably on their heads. You also have mobile gamers, especially in countries like Korea or China where mobile gaming in pretty huge. Overall, I think this a up and coming niche market, but because it’s new and niche doesn’t mean it’s dumb.
They sound like a very good option for VR users. You don't want to use bluetooth because of latency but you also dont want clunky big headphones with 2.4/5GHz low latency. There is not a lot of alternatives to these Earbuds. And the fact that it uses a tiny USB Lightspeed receiver is also very convenient especially if the VR headset has a usb-c port on the side. I just hope that the mic quality improves in future products.
@@rickystafford7433I have those, and I wasn’t impressed… but for the price they “alright” I guess. The vrp10’s volume is kinda low tbh. The volume has to be around 80-90% minimum in order to be enjoyable. I’ve had wired earbuds that sound way louder than that, and cheap. It’s great for gaming, but for music they don’t sound that good. At that point, my old AirPods 1st gen sound way better for music. For gaming they do the job just fine, but they’re not surprising in terms of volume/sound quality. Also, the battery life is kinda bad too. The most I can wear them is 3 hours max, until I have to charge them again in the case.
I got the Soundcore ones, and while they use a regular ear tip and less EQ options, the dongle actually fits inside the case, has passthrough charging and the battery life is much better than expected. Plus switching between Bluetooth and the dongle is automatic, no need of a command. I use them for my Steam Deck and theyre great, plus its about a third of the price of these Logitech ones, would still like to try them though at some point
my first thought was "if the latency is very low, that would be nice actually" since i live in SEA and wearing headset make my ears very warm every 20 or so minutes. but then the battery life part starts and that's kinda a deal breaker.
you can try open ended headset like shp9500 with mbquartz, or just buy utws5, fiio utws5 last very long time for me unless u are gaming continuosly for more than 8 hours then its not for you
As someone who has had custom IEMs for years (and also used them for gaming for years) I am really happy that that technology (in an easier and cheaper way) is making it to mainstream slowly. I cannot empathize enough how GOOD CIEMs FEEL in your ears. Mine aren’t wireless and have a lot more drivers, however.😂
They look interesting but I've learned my lesson buying Logitech stuff. I've had terrible experience with their products and I'm not falling for it again.
An affordable hifi headset is better for this use, especially the AKG k52 or something like that don't have a lot of pressure and sound great, I have no Problems wearing them for multiple hours with glasses on :)
The dongle and the latency are two huge things for wireless gaming, but they forgot one more crucial aspect which was getting a really good mic quality for the Comms with friends
Tbh you don't really want a bass-heavy mic for comms during games. You want your comms to be isolated to the high frequencies, kinda like how pilots use their VHF radio so they can hear each other better in their noisy environments. I had a friend who bought like a podcast quality mic and it was terrible trying to play games with him because the range on his mic interfered with sounds from the game environment. I couldn't hear in game foot-steps because his mic was overwhelming the low-mid range frequencies.
@@elliottwitt5369 For gaming in general you want more mids and high freq than bass. Footsteps are around 250-500 hz. Bass heavy is only good for listening to music
James, another hot take for wireless "gaming" earbuds would be for someone like me who travels a lot via plane, and takes my gaming laptop along with me, but doesn't have the capacity (or want) to constantly pack a big ole set of over-ear headphones. In fact, when I saw this review go up I considered buying them immediately - especially if they had sound cancellation (laptop fans get loud, ya know).
Seems like a good option if you’re in the gym and in the gaming session when they beat saber and other things like it and you want one pair to do it all
I would definitely cop these if the dongle were the phone-friendly t-shaped one, bluetooth was too inconsistent for rhythm games, even on Android and iOS
It’s interesting how these ear molding earbuds are becoming more common, but the gaming part of these earbuds would be more useful if there was a USB receiver for PS5 use.
DUDE, Literally exactly what I was thinking. GET OUT OF MY HEAD CHARLES!! EDIT - As others have pointed out, you should really watch the whole video before blindly listening to some random in the comments.
I wouldn't call those Logitech buds bass heavy. If you're a bass head then you probably won't be satisfied with them as they have extremely tame bass compared to most gaming products. This product was just to mainly show off the moulding technology with everything sound related left behind.
James forgot he reviewed the soundcore VRP10 which are essentially the same thing except marketed as a VR accessory. I daily drive the VRP10 for gaming and actually for any computer or ipad use. I prefer gaming earbuds because 1) wearing headsets for too long is not comfortable, 2) portability, 3) better for switching between different usb-c devices than doing the bluetooth dance (this is especially important if you constantly switch between 3+ devices, and 4) I like the dual 2.4 Ghz and BT so I can switch between my laptop/ipad and the phone which is connected via BT. The VRP10 meets most of my needs at a good price point. Sadly, none of the offerings out there, including the VRP10, are good enough.
Highly considering these, ever since I got a pair of wireless earbuds for the gym I've found myself using them over my headphones on PC the majority of the time. They sound great, they're incredibly comfortable and the convenience and freedom of wireless is just really hard to go back from. If these remove the inherent latency which I consider the only major downside then I'm sold
That dongle looks huge compared to the one that comes with Logitech mice and keyboards. Was hoping you could just use one unifying one like the others.
That's the same size as the the Logi-G gaming line dongles. I've only seen the super mini ones for their consumer line. It's unfortunate that I need to have 3 dongles (only 2 if I have the lightspeed mousepad plugged in) for all 3 devices.
If I ordered these earbuds from Newegg as a new item, would they arrive new or would I be sent a returned item resold as new like they do with their PC parts?
extra bass earbuds for gaming, especially IEM are pretty commom, it's weird but if it's affordable and the battery lasts a whole day that's pretty dope
You need a dongle because the Bluetooth protocol does not allow for simultaneous stereo audio and microphone input in high quality. It drops down to mono at something like 8 khz. The dongle supplements this by establishing its own dedicated wireless connection.
@@Fiwek23452 I use a $9 Apple USB C to 3.5mm adapter. Reviews elsewhere show that it, and the equivalent from Samsung, both give you a perfect analogue signal.
a lot of people use wireless gaming headsets (over-ear). 10 years ago a lot of wireless gaming headsets got released and people bought them like crazy. A lot of People have problem with over-ears when they press on the ear, or get sweatty
I'd love a small comfortable BT headset designed for people use their phone as a phone. That's right some of us make calls from phones. THe plantronics Edge 3200 had all that going for it and for some reason despite winning the best BT headset for over 5 years they never bothered to make a new one.
I wish they have this product but without the 'fits' feature I ttried their molding and it hurts my ears, but everything else about it I love. I had to return it because of this
Ever since I got my first wireless earphones never even for a second I thought about going back to wired. Even when you need to take a break, go wash some dishes, whatever you can still keep listening to your second monitor content, or friends on discord.
My left ear hole also likes to spit or earbuds. Into the oven, under a mower etc. Also like to spit out ear plugs which can be unfortunate when machine guns are rocking and you can't find the dang thing.
I have a Schitt Dac and Amp, a gaming head set, two sets of Audiophile Headphones, and 4 IEM's, but I always revert back to my Sony WF-1000XM4 when I'm at home on my PC cause of the sheer convenience and the fact can just get up and walk around without having my audio interupted since there aren't any cables. I wouldn't buy a Logitech audio headset as I find their tuning to be over exagerated for gaming, but these make sense.
yeah, the initial statements still is true: why bother with charging when you can plug the things in anyways. Especially considering how much more and worse e-waste batteries are.
I'm intrigued about using earbuds as my PC headset since I've used quite a few different setups over the years. A decade ago I bought my first wireless headset, SoundBlaster EVO ZxR and that had all the bells and whistles back then. Then my brother dropped them while they were charging and the micro-usb port sheared off. Used low-end studio monitors wired straight to my receiver for a few years and then got these Sennheiser GSP 370's a couple years ago. These are fine, but a bit lacking in sound and they can't be paired to anything other than their own dongle. About a month ago, I dug the SoundBlaster's out of storage, soldered on a new port and replaced the bulged battery. I'll have to say, they sound still pretty damn good even if they're old af. The only quirk they have that's annoying is that the dongle that's supposedly paired only with the headset, doesn't pair consistently with the headset and will rather grab the living rooms LG soundbar. The other thing that's not the fault of the headset is that the software isn't found anywhere anymore, but luckily the android app still exists so I can config the eq and other SoundBlaster things there.
I noticed one thing about this review. James only did the voice recorder for the Bluetooth voice memo on his phone. More than likely not the best sound quality to begin with. Perhaps testing with the Lightspeed dongle and something like OBS, where you could assured good sound volumes etc. Just a thought...
Should've made these with a neckstrap-type with bigger batterylife. While 15h is ok if the chargetime with the box is short you do need to drop them for a quick charge when you're taking a break. And that mic is really bad, they probably just added the cheapest one so they could market them as a headset replacement.
I have been using Tozo G1s (45ms) and Edifier 240TN (80ms) for everything on PC and they have been really doing the job well (two in case one needs charging), yes turn the mics off if you don't want phone quality audio in games.
Why the hell don't they make a kit to mold eartips like that for any IEM? They can provide custom eartips for a fraction of what it usually costs and you can do it easily at home instead of sending an impression to a manufacturer.
I totally get there being a market for these. I use airpods when I’m not in disc and it’s just convenient to sit in any position or not have a cord shift around when moving. Also getting up and just sitting back down is nice.
I use Bose quiet comfort 2s earbuds for gaming/tv/music (competitive cs), use to sennheiser momentum 2 headphones and although the noise cancelling was obviously better on the headphones, I prefer how much more free I feel using the earbuds. The sound on both are amazing. Biggest downfall is definitely battery life on the buds only 6 hours which is such a let down.
Have had these since launch. Love the crap out of them. the touch sensitive controls can be finicky, and heaven forbid you try to switch between Bluetooth devices - phone/tablet...but the battery life, fit, and sound are so so so nice. Glad I picked these up over air pod pros.
Okay just throwing this out there, they're marketed as vr earbuds, but soundcore has had the P10's out for a long time as dongle no lag earbuds for pc. Performs great and is significantly cheaper
The market is seriously lacking at accessories for people who sit across the room from their computers. I have a TV computer, and in no way I want any kind or cable going across the living room, so wireless stuff is a must
Having a user operable way to switch inputs is so helpful. I love my Sennheiser Momentum 4 headphones but its so annoying when I want to switch from my PC to my iPhone. I have to disconnect it from the PC otherwise it won't switch over.
Having product name somewhere in the video title would be helpful when searching. You didn't even include it anywhere in the description, for when after watching the video, you decide to check on pricing
I have a pair of $70 Phillips open back headphones, and a USB mic I plug straight into my ps5 and it works great. Headphones are comfortable and sound good, and the mic makes me sound good.
I remember in highschool I looked into wireless headphones because I had long hair and a windows phone i washed dishes for like 6 months to pay $700 for. And the headphones were like just as much. And they werent even bluetooth. I think they used wifi even. And they had like antennas on each of them lol. It was hilarious. but i really tried.
I wish they had longer battery life. That's the only thing that is holding me back, I think the mic is a bit tin-ny sounding but the sound and latency between actions and noise seem pretty good. If they come out with a 2nd gen that has at least 10 hours of battery life I would purchase them on the spot.
mic quality is acceptable and i like how logitech throws them in as a bundle if you buy anything over 350 (its a lot), but along with the promo going on its in my opinion a pretty sweet deal
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I absolutely despise using Bluetooth on Windows. It's never been good for me, it's never been stable. So the fact that these utilize a a Lightspeed dongle is actually a major selling point to me. I get the initial "that's dumb" reaction but ngl, I'm into it.
yeah same here, i have to turn off the mic on any pair of wireless earbuds or headphones to be able to hear anything while in a discord call, its super annoying.
It’s really good on windows 11 though. It’s most likely your Bluetooth card or driver that are terrible. Try updating your driver and then using bluetooth
@@xyroah Bluetooth on windows has always been terrible. But it always works perfectly for first party Microsoft products for some reason...
@@xyroah you do realize mostly everyone hasn't switched over to windows 11 yet right?
@Taistelu_pelto most important bit is the Intel card since it's gotten your standards it'll work the same way on a modern Windows 10
Can you guys cover the fact that Bluetooth as a standard can't do Microphone and Stereo audio at the same time in 2023?
It sure can if you're using a new enough Bluetooth standard on both ends there's different modes that Bluetooth can run in the most basic for phone calls what you're talkin about why would that need to be stereo phone calls aren't stereo
yes please
@@profosist Discord calls while your playing a game sure are though. Did you miss the part where these were supposed to be for that?
@@profosist How about gaming? You want to keep the sound quality of the game while also using the microphone. In any case, windows at least and from my experience use the dogshit bluetooth profile that hugely degrades audio quality when using the microphone.
You can't use bluetooth for gaming anyways
I got these for the way they mold to your ears but man, it’s so nice that they can *also* work on your computer with low latency and the audio quality doesn’t get destroyed when you’re using the mic (cough Bluetooth)
Is the mic better than what this video showed when using the dongle? James sounded very much like it was recorded on a phone, and hence ruined by A2DP.
@@MentalEdge It's not about the mic quality, it's about the audio playback quality. With Bluetooth earbuds, you can't record and listen to music at the same time because the sound quality will be atrocious (i.e. mono and it sounds like the music you hear when you're put on hold).
@@RegBinary I know. A2DP works by completely destroying the audio bitrate so the bluetooth signal can fit an audio stream going in both directions. That's why BOTH playback and recording get destroyed on bluetooth.
I'm wondering if the mic is improved by the lightspeed connection, as well, or if it's just a bad mic.
@@MentalEdge I'm also curious about this I hope Mitchell responds if the mic quality is better on PC with lightspeed.
@@MentalEdge Unfortunately it's pretty accurate. IMO it sounds better than bluetooth headsets I've tried but yeah, not great. And I feel like I have to speak up somewhat loud for it to register my voice, although I'm not sure if that's some noise suppression thing going on in my computer I have to turn off.
I wish the ear molding tech would be implemented in something like the XM4 earbuds. I liked how they sound, I liked the controls and pretty much everything about them, except the pain they would create in my ear overtime.
Exactly, the XM3 and XM4 buds are awesome but their confort is definitely a flaw. So either Logitech releases great sounding buds (don't hold your breath...) or Sony releases ear molding buds too (but maybe there is a trademark or something...).
had the same problem with xm4s. after hour or so my ear canals would hurt from being pressured too much. buying 3rd party silicon eartips have solved this problem for me, would advise
what about 3rd party foam tips
@@Stanatak I tried, and for me, it didn't do anything. The biggest downside to the XM4 for me is that you can't really sleep with them either, which would be nice for my tinnitus
@@ProvencalG Yeah, I just wish they'd have the ear molding tech and a slimer profile so you can sleep with them and they wouldn't hurt you. I suffer from tinnitus and that would be a nice to have "feature". There might be a patent pending for the ear molding tech, but then again, there wouldn't be 2 companies doing it.
Man, I've been waiting for something like this. Low-latency TWS with a dongle for PC gaming. I love using my AirPods at my desk when I'm using Mac devices for work, and I sorely miss that freedom when I switch to my PC to play games. My IEMs probably beat these when it comes to price:performance ratio, but being untethered when I need to step away for a second would be hella nice
I use the Logitech G PRO X Wireless Gaming Headset, you may want to consider that over these earbuds.
The headset is cheaper while having a better mic, probably better audio, and much more battery life.
The dream would be these earbuds with a good mic and 10+ hours of battery life but that's unfortunately not the case.
I'm pretty sure there's a converter out there that would work with a PC. Might be a better priced option for you to get one of those and turn your wired earbuds into wireless. Definitely need to avoid BT only though, Windows has never figured out how to play nice with that. Finding one with a dongle is the way to go, if you can.
@@zoopa9988 I personally just don’t like the weight of headsets after an hour or so. These seem like a good middle ground especially since I have a usb mic
There are a few options for low latency buds now. I'm using the Soundcore VRP10's I don't play too many twitchy titles, so I don't have a great eye for latency, but they are spec'd in the same kind of 30ms range at about 30% the price. I like the idea of that custom fit though, and the app looks a lot more robust with these.
Soundcore p10, cheaper, performs great
I hope this earbud molding tech makes its way to more earbuds, regular tips always end up either working their way out or just cause discomfort for me. I used Comply foam tips for a while until they kept breaking down to the point I was buying new ones every six months
A one time mold would be fantastic but even if I had to go through the molding process once every couple weeks or months that's still better than ear pain or buying new tips
You might want to try the Etymotic ER2XR or in general IEMs that support triple flange eartips if you're having trouble with IEMs staying in. It does take 2 or 3 days to get used to having your ears probed but the sound isolation, comfort and stability are really worth it.
Same! I have smaller ear canals and the only earbuds that I've found to be comfortable are the 1st and 2nd gen Airpods. The rubber tips never fit into my ears and they constantly fall out.
Would love to see LTT Labs do a latency comparison between these kind of earphones/earbuds. (Corsair Virtuoso, Epos GTW 270, etc.)
Considering both use wlan they would be incredibly close not really worth a comparison
Light speed is a branded term they use for a standard 2.4GHz connection.
Pretty much any headset that connects via 2.4Ghz wireless will have the same amount of latency. That latency being pretty much unnoticeable.
Source: The fact that 2.4Ghz has been the standard for like a decade. If you read their actual copy they even mention it's just a 2.4Ghz connection.
wait if its so, then why does only recently (around 2018-2020) do wireless gaming mouses catch up with wired ones in terms of latency. Why are there any progress in 2.4ghz latency at all if the standard had been the same. I know it should make sense but i couldn't find a source proving me wrong... Can you explain it to me? @@AubryRugBurn
250 euro's, less than 7 hours battery life, no atmos or other spacial audio codec, lousy microphone. If this was around 60 euro I might consider it, but this is a garbage product.
But they got them lights! 😁
The battery life is the real nail in the coffin. At least with a headset or keyboard you can plug it in and still use it normally.
@@squidwardo7074 Would battery life really be that much of a problem? I’ve never gamed for 7 hours straight without at least a few 15-20 minute breaks throughout. I’d just put the buds in the case during that time and I’m sure that would add a lot of time if other earbud charging cases are anything to go by.
Can you give an alternative to this product? One that is low latency wireless, has mediocre sound quality (by average people standards), and is in ear.
E@@notcowbringer4222 epos w270
You should have done a mic test with the lightspeed dongle. It could have more bandwidth than bluetooth.
I have normal nongaming senheiser buds and gaming with them turned out to be surprisingly enjoyable. Only wish they lasted longer but if you're not irresponsible with keeping them charged it isn't a often a problem. They charge pretty quickly anyway.
Ehich games do u play with em?
@@CptAloevera anything pve or pvp and racing sims, doesn't matter. I don't hear any delay in the sound. Although the tmw3 buds turned out to be a piece of crap in terms of longevity and reliability, do not recommend.
biggest reason that people should realize with this: the Fits are the first (correct me if i'm wrong) low latency, wireless earbuds that can support audio and voice due to the dongle. that being said, this is something gamers that wear glasses should rejoice at. i personally use this because gaming headsets cause a lot of pain from the headset pushing the glasses into my head. i used to use a USB DAC with wired earbuds and an external mic. while that's still good, i do occasionally LAN with friends and bringing the Fits around is easier
230$ holy hell. I guess they have the gaming tax on them.
They have tax for no competition in this space of really low latency wireless earbuds. The same happened when Logitech was the first company to offer wireless mice with comparable performance to wired. Other companies just played catch up.
Oh damn. Was interested but that's a lot.
If the mic was any good the price would be fine IMO. Sadly it sounds like a 20 bucks headset from 2006.
230$ "gaming" earbuds with the worst mic ive heard in years.
$230 for a shitty mic and, at least from James' description, pretty not great audio (Which as an owner of the UE Fits, I can say that would be on brand). For that money you could get a stand mic and some decent IEMs if you don't care about wireless.
Seems like a comparison between soundcore vr p10 and these Logitech earbuds especially for the price difference. The soundcore buds switch audio automatically from phone to dongle. Convenient when you have a phone call coming in. Works on ps5 also
Was about to comment about the SC VR P10. The price to performance and features compared to these is unmatched.
It would actually come in handy with VR headsets like PSVR2 or Varjo Aero or the new Quest
For folks who are on topic (obviously not the author of this video): actually, Logitech puts separate USB dongle in the package not for additional connection option due to lack of Bluetooth capabilities on your device. This dongle is simply the only option if you want to get quality sound for gaming. Otherwise you will have an awful hands free mode via Bluetooth connection on Windows PC which totally ruins sound quality. And yes, you probably can't fix that by searching the right configs in settings or installing a driver. So, this is a kinda dirty hack from Logitech to overcome hands free mode on windows :)
I've never thought that people could have issues about a wireless dongle, I've always thought it's amazing. Bluetooth on Windows is finnicky for me, but wireless dongles behave almost just as good as cables. these look amazing, and if I hadn't just gotten a brand new Razer headset, I'd run to get these.
I was interested in these, due to the comfort they deliver over "casual" sessions on the PC, where you just browse the web, or watch videos and don't feel like wearing a headset. That being said at an MSRP of 230$ or 250€ it is a very tough sell, given for that price I can just grab Air Pods Pros, entry level-decent audiohpile headphones, or a high end top of the line gaming headset. These seem like an awkward niche product at best.
Why would you get airpods? Sony has better ANC and sennheiser blows them away in audio for the same price. Apple, like usual, has no actual pros. Other brands do it better,
@@Wylie288better software with apple products, comfort (personal thing) and the spatial audio
while I agree the airpods are better bang for buck in this case, they are nowhere near good sound quality earphones for the price.
I gotta admit, this is a more worthwhile product than I was expecting. The individualized ear molding sounds useful, and it's awesome to have a genuinely low-latency option. Bluetooth latency is bad, no matter what. Plus, Logitech already does low-latency, dongle-based audio pretty well with their gaming headsets.
I primarily use my earbuds at my desk, but I don't use wired headphones because it's nice to be able to get up and do other stuff while still being on a call/ listening to music/ getting notifications/ etc etc. Plus I hate cables SO MUCH.
I've owned these since they came out, and I honestly consider buying a second pair every time I have to throw them in to charge. I often forget or don't leave time for them to charge because I use them *all* the time. They're fantastic for gaming (I mostly play FPS and don't notice any latency, unlike regular BT), and so incredibly comfortable that I don't mind leaving them in. I switch these out with JBL Quantum TWS when they need to charge, but the JBLs are way less comfortable and have half the battery life the Fits do. Highly recommend if you can swallow the price tag.
ALSO, IF YOU NEED EAR TIP REPLACEMENTS, THE UE FITS TIP REPLACEMENTS WORK.
How long does it take to charge? For me the battery is the nail in the coffin (not to mention it's $230). At least with a keyboard or headset you can plug it in and still use it normally.
With the advent of the steam deck and the upcoming Asus handheld pc gaming thing, wireless earbuds for gaming on the go could be a major attraction. Not to mention some people don’t like headphones for one reason or the other and would rather use earbuds that may fit more comfortably on their heads. You also have mobile gamers, especially in countries like Korea or China where mobile gaming in pretty huge. Overall, I think this a up and coming niche market, but because it’s new and niche doesn’t mean it’s dumb.
They sound like a very good option for VR users. You don't want to use bluetooth because of latency but you also dont want clunky big headphones with 2.4/5GHz low latency. There is not a lot of alternatives to these Earbuds. And the fact that it uses a tiny USB Lightspeed receiver is also very convenient especially if the VR headset has a usb-c port on the side. I just hope that the mic quality improves in future products.
soundcore vr p10 i think is a better option at $80
@@rickystafford7433I have those, and I wasn’t impressed… but for the price they “alright” I guess. The vrp10’s volume is kinda low tbh. The volume has to be around 80-90% minimum in order to be enjoyable. I’ve had wired earbuds that sound way louder than that, and cheap. It’s great for gaming, but for music they don’t sound that good. At that point, my old AirPods 1st gen sound way better for music. For gaming they do the job just fine, but they’re not surprising in terms of volume/sound quality. Also, the battery life is kinda bad too. The most I can wear them is 3 hours max, until I have to charge them again in the case.
Keep in mind microphone quality might be a lot better using the Lightspeed adapter versus the Bluetooth microphone codec on an iPhone.
That being said, just pickup a siren mini for your PC and you're all set! Very good budget mic. Especially used.
I appreciate the Mass Effect Reaper Sound at 3:06, very nice
Would love to see a comparison to the Soundcore VR P10
I got the Soundcore ones, and while they use a regular ear tip and less EQ options, the dongle actually fits inside the case, has passthrough charging and the battery life is much better than expected. Plus switching between Bluetooth and the dongle is automatic, no need of a command. I use them for my Steam Deck and theyre great, plus its about a third of the price of these Logitech ones, would still like to try them though at some point
my first thought was "if the latency is very low, that would be nice actually" since i live in SEA and wearing headset make my ears very warm every 20 or so minutes. but then the battery life part starts and that's kinda a deal breaker.
you can try open ended headset like shp9500 with mbquartz, or just buy utws5, fiio utws5 last very long time for me unless u are gaming continuosly for more than 8 hours then its not for you
As someone who has had custom IEMs for years (and also used them for gaming for years) I am really happy that that technology (in an easier and cheaper way) is making it to mainstream slowly. I cannot empathize enough how GOOD CIEMs FEEL in your ears. Mine aren’t wireless and have a lot more drivers, however.😂
step in the right direction, look forward to the next version of them I think they are too pricy atm for the sound and mic quality.
They look interesting but I've learned my lesson buying Logitech stuff. I've had terrible experience with their products and I'm not falling for it again.
@@rubiconnn me too. i bought speaker z333 and earbuds g333. The reviewer said it sound exllecent. while it is very terrible to me.
I will probably buy one of these. Since I wear glasses, using over the ear headphones is pretty unconfortable and they wear off faster.
Buy a cheap chifi one instead, i got the Truthear Hexa for 80 bucks and theyre insane!!!
I think you can only buy 2 of these.
Look up crinacle and go on his IEM fidelity list, you'll get a much better audio experience with far less cost
An affordable hifi headset is better for this use, especially the AKG k52 or something like that don't have a lot of pressure and sound great, I have no Problems wearing them for multiple hours with glasses on :)
Soundcore P10, true wireless with dongle low latency 100 dollars
The dongle and the latency are two huge things for wireless gaming, but they forgot one more crucial aspect which was getting a really good mic quality for the Comms with friends
Tbh you don't really want a bass-heavy mic for comms during games. You want your comms to be isolated to the high frequencies, kinda like how pilots use their VHF radio so they can hear each other better in their noisy environments.
I had a friend who bought like a podcast quality mic and it was terrible trying to play games with him because the range on his mic interfered with sounds from the game environment. I couldn't hear in game foot-steps because his mic was overwhelming the low-mid range frequencies.
Good mic in a earbud just isnt possible there are no good mics in any wireless earbud
@@elliottwitt5369 you can change that easily with an eq.
Absolutely nope, you're waaay better with a separate mic, it just wouldn't be a good mic, not possible
@@elliottwitt5369 For gaming in general you want more mids and high freq than bass. Footsteps are around 250-500 hz. Bass heavy is only good for listening to music
James, another hot take for wireless "gaming" earbuds would be for someone like me who travels a lot via plane, and takes my gaming laptop along with me, but doesn't have the capacity (or want) to constantly pack a big ole set of over-ear headphones. In fact, when I saw this review go up I considered buying them immediately - especially if they had sound cancellation (laptop fans get loud, ya know).
Seems like a good option if you’re in the gym and in the gaming session when they beat saber and other things like it and you want one pair to do it all
I would definitely cop these if the dongle were the phone-friendly t-shaped one, bluetooth was too inconsistent for rhythm games, even on Android and iOS
Soundcore p10, usb c t shaped with passthrough 100 dollars
It’s interesting how these ear molding earbuds are becoming more common, but the gaming part of these earbuds would be more useful if there was a USB receiver for PS5 use.
DUDE, Literally exactly what I was thinking. GET OUT OF MY HEAD CHARLES!!
EDIT - As others have pointed out, you should really watch the whole video before blindly listening to some random in the comments.
Well, I don’t have to watch the video now. This is the only thing I was looking for
You can use the lightspeed receiver on PS5 I think
5:00?
@@homegrowntwinkie There is one... watch the video
I don't use the term "sweaty", but them begging you to take a selfie wearing the earbuds--in the middle of the setup process--is really damn sweaty.
love how the most replayed part of the vid is where everyone skips the sponsored ad lmaooo
I've been waiting for a product like this. Comfort, Lightspeed to my PC, and bass heavy is exactly what I'm looking for.
I wouldn't call those Logitech buds bass heavy. If you're a bass head then you probably won't be satisfied with them as they have extremely tame bass compared to most gaming products. This product was just to mainly show off the moulding technology with everything sound related left behind.
I had a pair and promptly returned them because of the lack of a low-end. These aren't the answer.
James forgot he reviewed the soundcore VRP10 which are essentially the same thing except marketed as a VR accessory. I daily drive the VRP10 for gaming and actually for any computer or ipad use. I prefer gaming earbuds because 1) wearing headsets for too long is not comfortable, 2) portability, 3) better for switching between different usb-c devices than doing the bluetooth dance (this is especially important if you constantly switch between 3+ devices, and 4) I like the dual 2.4 Ghz and BT so I can switch between my laptop/ipad and the phone which is connected via BT. The VRP10 meets most of my needs at a good price point. Sadly, none of the offerings out there, including the VRP10, are good enough.
He literally mentions it in the video and says this is a clone!
@@schizofennec He mentioned its a clone of the UE fits which are bluetooth only.
huge missed opportunity to have the adapter be jack 3.5mm instead of USB. it would work on so many devices with 3.5mm
Highly considering these, ever since I got a pair of wireless earbuds for the gym I've found myself using them over my headphones on PC the majority of the time. They sound great, they're incredibly comfortable and the convenience and freedom of wireless is just really hard to go back from. If these remove the inherent latency which I consider the only major downside then I'm sold
That dongle looks huge compared to the one that comes with Logitech mice and keyboards. Was hoping you could just use one unifying one like the others.
That's the same size as the the Logi-G gaming line dongles. I've only seen the super mini ones for their consumer line. It's unfortunate that I need to have 3 dongles (only 2 if I have the lightspeed mousepad plugged in) for all 3 devices.
@@Sid992 my G502 dongle looks way smaller. Although it's from a few years ago, maybe they got bigger.
@@mundt_ yeah he's wrong my Logitech g pro super light has a tiny dongle for lightspeed
Headphones dongles from logitech are a bigger than mouse`s ones. I have g435 and G Fits dongle seems a bit longer, but i am not sure.
The big feature here is the low latency & you don't even discuss what the latency actually is. That's the real face palm here.
3:07 - REAPERS! Get to the Normandy!
If I ordered these earbuds from Newegg as a new item, would they arrive new or would I be sent a returned item resold as new like they do with their PC parts?
You should do a review of the arctis pro wireless. Fabulous gaming headset, I love mine. Great for listening to zoom meetings while gaming 😂
I quite like its design, which is similar to the UE molding earbuds.
extra bass earbuds for gaming, especially IEM are pretty commom, it's weird but if it's affordable and the battery lasts a whole day that's pretty dope
You need a dongle because the Bluetooth protocol does not allow for simultaneous stereo audio and microphone input in high quality. It drops down to mono at something like 8 khz. The dongle supplements this by establishing its own dedicated wireless connection.
Rather have wired IEM:s for $50-100 and an external sound card tbh.
smart
Use a dac, i used my black dragonfly for gaming it was nice, but now I use the cobalt which is more nicer
@@Fiwek23452 I use a $9 Apple USB C to 3.5mm adapter. Reviews elsewhere show that it, and the equivalent from Samsung, both give you a perfect analogue signal.
IEMs with molded tips are gonna cost way more than that though.
@@Fiwek23452 Considering you wont hear the audio without a dac using one is definitely a good idea.
Also, the microphone(s) are hot trash...jesus christ that's bad.....Like calling your cellprovider but 20+ years ago...
I don’t think I’ve heard any non-$200 earbuds that were good
That's apparently an issue that is inherent to Bluetooth connection. I wonder if they would have better quality when using them with the USB dongle.
a lot of people use wireless gaming headsets (over-ear). 10 years ago a lot of wireless gaming headsets got released and people bought them like crazy.
A lot of People have problem with over-ears when they press on the ear, or get sweatty
I'd love a small comfortable BT headset designed for people use their phone as a phone. That's right some of us make calls from phones. THe plantronics Edge 3200 had all that going for it and for some reason despite winning the best BT headset for over 5 years they never bothered to make a new one.
mic is awful
Shockingly bad for the price, like they didn't even try on that aspect
I wish they have this product but without the 'fits' feature I ttried their molding and it hurts my ears, but everything else about it I love. I had to return it because of this
Ever since I got my first wireless earphones never even for a second I thought about going back to wired. Even when you need to take a break, go wash some dishes, whatever you can still keep listening to your second monitor content, or friends on discord.
"You ever just see a product and think - that's a stupid idea."
Yes, 85% of time i see ShortCircuit video.
All this trouble to develop Logitech Lightspeed while there has been a solution to the latency problem for a long time (wires)...
These were a game change for me for WFH. No more headset dent at the end of a day full of client calls.
Summer is coming and I don't wanna wear my ear warmer HP pads. This is great.
My left ear hole also likes to spit or earbuds. Into the oven, under a mower etc. Also like to spit out ear plugs which can be unfortunate when machine guns are rocking and you can't find the dang thing.
Lmao, “I hope I don’t get addicted”
02:14
You might have just revealed the screen unlock code for that (test hopefully) device
I could've sworn you already made a video on these a little before they were available either on ShortCircuit or the main channel.
Me too, maybe it was dumped when they got hacked?
I have a Schitt Dac and Amp, a gaming head set, two sets of Audiophile Headphones, and 4 IEM's, but I always revert back to my Sony WF-1000XM4 when I'm at home on my PC cause of the sheer convenience and the fact can just get up and walk around without having my audio interupted since there aren't any cables. I wouldn't buy a Logitech audio headset as I find their tuning to be over exagerated for gaming, but these make sense.
They should have added a mode to use the already built in UV light to sterilize these when inside of the case.
Hmmm I wonder why microphones behind the thing projecting sound out away from them don't sound very good :D
yeah, the initial statements still is true: why bother with charging when you can plug the things in anyways. Especially considering how much more and worse e-waste batteries are.
I have these. I work a job where i pretty much live out of a backpack. So i game on a small laptop. These are perfect
I'm intrigued about using earbuds as my PC headset since I've used quite a few different setups over the years. A decade ago I bought my first wireless headset, SoundBlaster EVO ZxR and that had all the bells and whistles back then. Then my brother dropped them while they were charging and the micro-usb port sheared off. Used low-end studio monitors wired straight to my receiver for a few years and then got these Sennheiser GSP 370's a couple years ago. These are fine, but a bit lacking in sound and they can't be paired to anything other than their own dongle.
About a month ago, I dug the SoundBlaster's out of storage, soldered on a new port and replaced the bulged battery. I'll have to say, they sound still pretty damn good even if they're old af. The only quirk they have that's annoying is that the dongle that's supposedly paired only with the headset, doesn't pair consistently with the headset and will rather grab the living rooms LG soundbar. The other thing that's not the fault of the headset is that the software isn't found anywhere anymore, but luckily the android app still exists so I can config the eq and other SoundBlaster things there.
I noticed one thing about this review.
James only did the voice recorder for the Bluetooth voice memo on his phone. More than likely not the best sound quality to begin with.
Perhaps testing with the Lightspeed dongle and something like OBS, where you could assured good sound volumes etc. Just a thought...
They accepted a Newegg sponsorship? That's... Unusual.
Did Steve ever follow up with Newegg?
I'm surprised it took this long for Logitech to take their proprietary wireless headsets into a smaller form factor.
I use wireless headphones with my pc because i ALSO use them on the go, so they're everyday headphones that i also use while gaming
Should've made these with a neckstrap-type with bigger batterylife. While 15h is ok if the chargetime with the box is short you do need to drop them for a quick charge when you're taking a break. And that mic is really bad, they probably just added the cheapest one so they could market them as a headset replacement.
The laptop had a sticker saying "Do not test OBS". Then comes *OBS crashed lmfao what do you expect 💀
Can you get replacement molding tips later? If you screw up the process of molding or for whatever reason.
Is the sound in Stereo while using the microphone with the LIGHTSPEED wireless?
I have been using Tozo G1s (45ms) and Edifier 240TN (80ms) for everything on PC and they have been really doing the job well (two in case one needs charging), yes turn the mics off if you don't want phone quality audio in games.
Why the hell don't they make a kit to mold eartips like that for any IEM? They can provide custom eartips for a fraction of what it usually costs and you can do it easily at home instead of sending an impression to a manufacturer.
Headphones cause nerve pain on the surface on my head when I wear them. Definitely need earbuds.
I think the not hearing other people to say wiggle them around a bit while they were molding and then the MUCH LOUDER TALKING VOICE AFTER says a lot.
I totally get there being a market for these. I use airpods when I’m not in disc and it’s just convenient to sit in any position or not have a cord shift around when moving. Also getting up and just sitting back down is nice.
I use Bose quiet comfort 2s earbuds for gaming/tv/music (competitive cs), use to sennheiser momentum 2 headphones and although the noise cancelling was obviously better on the headphones, I prefer how much more free I feel using the earbuds. The sound on both are amazing. Biggest downfall is definitely battery life on the buds only 6 hours which is such a let down.
You had me until the price, lol. I like the idea of forming the tips to your ears and having the custom sound profiles though
Have had these since launch. Love the crap out of them. the touch sensitive controls can be finicky, and heaven forbid you try to switch between Bluetooth devices - phone/tablet...but the battery life, fit, and sound are so so so nice. Glad I picked these up over air pod pros.
how is the mic on phone calls?
James' sound effects are incredible
He deserves a raise
Okay just throwing this out there, they're marketed as vr earbuds, but soundcore has had the P10's out for a long time as dongle no lag earbuds for pc. Performs great and is significantly cheaper
The market is seriously lacking at accessories for people who sit across the room from their computers. I have a TV computer, and in no way I want any kind or cable going across the living room, so wireless stuff is a must
Having a user operable way to switch inputs is so helpful. I love my Sennheiser Momentum 4 headphones but its so annoying when I want to switch from my PC to my iPhone. I have to disconnect it from the PC otherwise it won't switch over.
FINALLY.... I wanted these since the day I knew about TWS and 2.4G wireless
I like mines. Only thing is it doesnt have an off feature it just drains the battery even when its in the case.
Also i have the soundcore. I find myself using that first when i start gaming and when it runs out i switch to the logi.
" Big Sennheiser " I feel personally attack.
i need, my ears are completely different shapes. Earbuds always fit perfectly in my right ear, but my left ear always spits them out
Having product name somewhere in the video title would be helpful when searching. You didn't even include it anywhere in the description, for when after watching the video, you decide to check on pricing
Mine haven't replaced my headset YET, but its getting close to it. Next version needs better battery life, and multiple sized ear attachments.
I have a pair of $70 Phillips open back headphones, and a USB mic I plug straight into my ps5 and it works great. Headphones are comfortable and sound good, and the mic makes me sound good.
I remember in highschool I looked into wireless headphones because I had long hair and a windows phone i washed dishes for like 6 months to pay $700 for. And the headphones were like just as much. And they werent even bluetooth. I think they used wifi even. And they had like antennas on each of them lol. It was hilarious. but i really tried.
I wish they had longer battery life. That's the only thing that is holding me back, I think the mic is a bit tin-ny sounding but the sound and latency between actions and noise seem pretty good. If they come out with a 2nd gen that has at least 10 hours of battery life I would purchase them on the spot.
i wish they will be better than the last gen about the idle noise of beeping or ticking.
mic quality is acceptable and i like how logitech throws them in as a bundle if you buy anything over 350 (its a lot), but along with the promo going on its in my opinion a pretty sweet deal