The idea that something like the story about accidentally killing the relative for money is such a weird concept to me. It presupposes two things: 1) That your willpower and intent do not determine the outcome of your spells. 2) That magic itself is malevolent, and is actively trying to screw you over. Magic isn't some tricky djinn or a deal with the devil, it's just one of the many types of energy that compose and permeate our universe. An energy that is intrinsically linked to the will. The idea that you could do something like curse somebody without any intention of doing so is such a strange thing for an occultist to believe... Even something like the evil eye, a hex that can arguably be placed "by accident", still requires a sufficient amount of malice behind the glare. It's not going to happen to someone for whom you harbor no ill will. I find the idea that you could summon a demon by accident even funnier. There is so much powerful intention involved in the process, as well as ritual designed to focus that intent. To me, the statement "Help I accidentally summoned a demon" is like the magical equivalent to "Help I accidentally built a Jeep". Like, how does that even happen??
@@ciphergrove Oh, no problem, thanks for the video! ^v^ The terms "black" and "white" magic have always been kinda confusing to me, so it's nice to hear your perspective on them!
@@David.Isaac.147 yeah if you can’t see that those living in darkness saw a great light or the way will be found in darkness. There is a quote written on a wall by a French girl who was imprisoned by her aristocratic family and it said something like this if anyone wishes to experience true beauty they should be born live and dye in a dungeon.
Hola Dorian me da mucho gusto que allas publicado de nuevo .. gracias gracias gracias por tu perspectiva. en algún momento apollare tu canal estoy pasando por una face un poco difícil . Empiesa a mejorar un poco .te deseo una buena noche 😊
Black magick is working with things that are dark. IE demons, djinn, fallen gods, etc. Baneful magick is when you use magick to harm something / someone or their property. IE curses, hexes, etc.
I'll admit, I do approach a lot of things you've discussed with a personal feeling of caution and conservatism, same way I do watching UFC fighters or Motocross riders (you get the point). But here you make a purely true factual statement about The Law. Labeling people who we can't understand and attacking; this is the true evil. I support your notion 💯 Thanks for sharing and hope to see more!
Thank you for saying this, I've felt this way for a while. As you said, the concept of "do no harm" means different things to different people, but even if we use the objective standard of "don't violate another's free will" (which I think is what Kraig, Greer, and DuQuette are getting at), I don't agree that it's even possible to violate the free will of another on the mental or spiritual planes. You can only hurt someone else magickally if they consent to it on some level. And if they consent to it, it's not a violation of free will
How can you only hurt someone if they consent? Ok maybe that’s true if one believes that one’s entire life has been planned out and determined before you incarnated … but from this level I don’t think anyone agrees with being violated. Seeing it from this limited 3D perspective is kinda what keeps the cycle of violence and suffering going though.
Hmm. I think karma is misunderstood. It’s not about your actions being weighed and punished in a moral sense, because an objective moral code doesn’t exist. It’s simply the law that your thoughts affect and shape your reality. Ultimately it’s your own bad conscience that tortures and punishes you most. So karma is less built on anything objective than it is just a kind of inner consequence in form of thoughts and feelings that ultimately affect your outer reality as well. Also because the evil aren’t punished in our world doesn’t really mean that reflects some kind of spiritual truth or law. Our world and society defies many spiritual and natural laws, which is also a big cause of suffering imo. But overall I agree with your well presented video
9:05 What if bad people get punished in another life ? With reincarantion the problem u mentioned could be explained. What if they are forced to come here on Earth in another life and pay for the bad Karma?
There is some truth in what you say. Magic does really just act as a tool for the practicioner, but keep in mind what else you said. You have to take precautions in using that kind of magic because you are using it outside of its original intent. Black magic is inherently dangerous, not just to you but to the people around you. Distorting the principles of the world which white magic draws upon, because the forces of white magic would inherently thwart your practice, is precisely the reason why white magic is white magic and black magic is black magic.
Never, in all my experience, have any of my workings been thwarted by those white magick practitioners who have, at times, come against me. To assert one is greater than the other is the very nature of the false dichotomy, since neither truly exists. These categories are created by humans, and used with moral connotations that are also invented by humans. Magick is magick. It has no color. It has no morality. It has no white or black.
@ciphergrove To be clear, I'm not claiming white magicians are thwarting your magic. What I'm claiming is that you, as the magician, must distort the forces of white magic in order to cast black magic. A more direct example would be the upright pentagram, which is a symbol of white magic and is more specifically one of the seals of God. You, a black magician, invoking the powers of the pentagram, must change the shape slightly in order to see your will done without being restrained by the principles which govern the pentagram. Two examples that immediately come to mind would be the Goat of Mendez or the Cloven Hoof, two distortions of the original symbol that allow you to skew it toward your own ends. However, if you still disagree, then have you ever tried summoning Samael via the standard pentagram? The usual result would be a binding rather than a supplication.
@ciphergrove I sent a reply before but I don't know if it sent since I don't see it showing up. I apologize for this, but I'll just TLDR my response to you. What I was referring to was not the white magicians themselves so much as the powers behind white magic. When you cast black magic, you have to distort the principalities of white magic to accomplish your aims. A huge example of this would be the Qliphoth, after all, you can't just destroy someone with Gevurah- you have to turn it into Golachav if you just want to be purely destructive. Alternatively, you would use the Goat of Mendez or the Cloven Hoof as opposed to the original Pentagram, as to do otherwise would be to bind Samael as opposed to supplicating to him if you were to summon him through traditional Solomonic magicks. In fact, I'd wager that you likely use the various names of Samael and Lilith as part of your protective circle since you have a preexisting relationship with them, rather than the names of God in Aramaic or Yiddic or Hebrew or Arabic or Greek. Those are all examples of black magic, respectively. Though to be clear, I do not seek to diminish your practice, but it is an inescapable fact. You can't chaos magick away the paradigms which categorize magick as a whole.
You're on your path, and cipher on his. I'd suggest that, like he clearly has, you examine both your own, and other systems of belief more deeply. It can be hard work, and sometimes leads to the shattering of beliefs you were previously certain of, but it's far more noble to do that hard work than trying to push your faith upon others.
The idea that something like the story about accidentally killing the relative for money is such a weird concept to me. It presupposes two things:
1) That your willpower and intent do not determine the outcome of your spells.
2) That magic itself is malevolent, and is actively trying to screw you over.
Magic isn't some tricky djinn or a deal with the devil, it's just one of the many types of energy that compose and permeate our universe. An energy that is intrinsically linked to the will.
The idea that you could do something like curse somebody without any intention of doing so is such a strange thing for an occultist to believe... Even something like the evil eye, a hex that can arguably be placed "by accident", still requires a sufficient amount of malice behind the glare. It's not going to happen to someone for whom you harbor no ill will.
I find the idea that you could summon a demon by accident even funnier. There is so much powerful intention involved in the process, as well as ritual designed to focus that intent. To me, the statement "Help I accidentally summoned a demon" is like the magical equivalent to "Help I accidentally built a Jeep". Like, how does that even happen??
This is the best way I’ve seen someone describe this. Thank you for this post 👏🏻
@@ciphergrove Oh, no problem, thanks for the video! ^v^ The terms "black" and "white" magic have always been kinda confusing to me, so it's nice to hear your perspective on them!
Magick is just magick, and darkness is not automatically evil. I agree...thank you Dorian ❤
I love the bomb analogy. I'm fed up with people who talk about the universe as if it's perfect, just and balanced or something.
I'm right there with you, the "love and light" mentality is toxic and out of touch with reality
Yes the natural state of reality is pure choas and not of order.
The Universe is chaotic by nature,i never understood why some claim it's just, perfect,and balanced. It makes no sense.
@@David.Isaac.147 yeah if you can’t see that those living in darkness saw a great light or the way will be found in darkness. There is a quote written on a wall by a French girl who was imprisoned by her aristocratic family and it said something like this if anyone wishes to experience true beauty they should be born live and dye in a dungeon.
Black magic for me personally is used to help my family and myself, Blessed Be.
Your very Well spoken it’s my day off and I was so happy to see you had a new video.
Hola Dorian me da mucho gusto que allas publicado de nuevo .. gracias gracias gracias por tu perspectiva. en algún momento apollare tu canal estoy pasando por una face un poco difícil . Empiesa a mejorar un poco .te deseo una buena noche 😊
Dorian, you truly are do great work and I love the channel. Thanks for what you do
Glad to see you back 😊
Severity is not evil and neither is selfishness. Good work.
Thank you for sharing Cipher.!!
Black magick is working with things that are dark. IE demons, djinn, fallen gods, etc. Baneful magick is when you use magick to harm something / someone or their property. IE curses, hexes, etc.
love your explanation and definition
I'll admit, I do approach a lot of things you've discussed with a personal feeling of caution and conservatism, same way I do watching UFC fighters or Motocross riders (you get the point). But here you make a purely true factual statement about The Law. Labeling people who we can't understand and attacking; this is the true evil. I support your notion 💯
Thanks for sharing and hope to see more!
Thanks so much for this. It's very timely.
Thank you for this message 👌👌💯💯💯🤘🤘🤘🔥🔥🔥
Today I was thinking about your channel, wishing for a new video, and Boom! ;) Excellent.
Great video and I love black magick and magick too
Absolutely awesome video! You explain it so well!
Thank you 🙏 for sharing your thoughts 🙏
Thank you for saying this, I've felt this way for a while. As you said, the concept of "do no harm" means different things to different people, but even if we use the objective standard of "don't violate another's free will" (which I think is what Kraig, Greer, and DuQuette are getting at), I don't agree that it's even possible to violate the free will of another on the mental or spiritual planes. You can only hurt someone else magickally if they consent to it on some level. And if they consent to it, it's not a violation of free will
How can you only hurt someone if they consent? Ok maybe that’s true if one believes that one’s entire life has been planned out and determined before you incarnated … but from this level I don’t think anyone agrees with being violated. Seeing it from this limited 3D perspective is kinda what keeps the cycle of violence and suffering going though.
@@user_f1 I said "on the mental or spiritual planes", not talking about the physical plane
I think all magick is dark/ black when you get to the core of it. As you said just because something is dark doesn't make it evil.
Hmm. I think karma is misunderstood. It’s not about your actions being weighed and punished in a moral sense, because an objective moral code doesn’t exist. It’s simply the law that your thoughts affect and shape your reality.
Ultimately it’s your own bad conscience that tortures and punishes you most. So karma is less built on anything objective than it is just a kind of inner consequence in form of thoughts and feelings that ultimately affect your outer reality as well.
Also because the evil aren’t punished in our world doesn’t really mean that reflects some kind of spiritual truth or law. Our world and society defies many spiritual and natural laws, which is also a big cause of suffering imo.
But overall I agree with your well presented video
Great video
Magick is magick. It all depends on what you do with it. A furearm is a tool, and how it is used depends on the i tent of the person
Dark absorbs light, light reflects light 🚦
Everything came from the dark primordial waters, is this a black existence? Nay. Grey
9:05 What if bad people get punished in another life ? With reincarantion the problem u mentioned could be explained. What if they are forced to come here on Earth in another life and pay for the bad Karma?
Why does the afterlife have to involve punishment?
Why do humans need to be punished when they die?
Karma is your own punish, life is a school, we are here to learn, and then we move on.
Hey, I was giting nervous about ya.
pretty much agrea, black magic is just a term created to cover anything that scared the people who created it.
❤🤘
There is some truth in what you say. Magic does really just act as a tool for the practicioner, but keep in mind what else you said. You have to take precautions in using that kind of magic because you are using it outside of its original intent. Black magic is inherently dangerous, not just to you but to the people around you. Distorting the principles of the world which white magic draws upon, because the forces of white magic would inherently thwart your practice, is precisely the reason why white magic is white magic and black magic is black magic.
Never, in all my experience, have any of my workings been thwarted by those white magick practitioners who have, at times, come against me. To assert one is greater than the other is the very nature of the false dichotomy, since neither truly exists. These categories are created by humans, and used with moral connotations that are also invented by humans.
Magick is magick. It has no color. It has no morality. It has no white or black.
@ciphergrove To be clear, I'm not claiming white magicians are thwarting your magic. What I'm claiming is that you, as the magician, must distort the forces of white magic in order to cast black magic. A more direct example would be the upright pentagram, which is a symbol of white magic and is more specifically one of the seals of God. You, a black magician, invoking the powers of the pentagram, must change the shape slightly in order to see your will done without being restrained by the principles which govern the pentagram. Two examples that immediately come to mind would be the Goat of Mendez or the Cloven Hoof, two distortions of the original symbol that allow you to skew it toward your own ends. However, if you still disagree, then have you ever tried summoning Samael via the standard pentagram? The usual result would be a binding rather than a supplication.
@ciphergrove I sent a reply before but I don't know if it sent since I don't see it showing up. I apologize for this, but I'll just TLDR my response to you.
What I was referring to was not the white magicians themselves so much as the powers behind white magic. When you cast black magic, you have to distort the principalities of white magic to accomplish your aims. A huge example of this would be the Qliphoth, after all, you can't just destroy someone with Gevurah- you have to turn it into Golachav if you just want to be purely destructive. Alternatively, you would use the Goat of Mendez or the Cloven Hoof as opposed to the original Pentagram, as to do otherwise would be to bind Samael as opposed to supplicating to him if you were to summon him through traditional Solomonic magicks. In fact, I'd wager that you likely use the various names of Samael and Lilith as part of your protective circle since you have a preexisting relationship with them, rather than the names of God in Aramaic or Yiddic or Hebrew or Arabic or Greek. Those are all examples of black magic, respectively. Though to be clear, I do not seek to diminish your practice, but it is an inescapable fact. You can't chaos magick away the paradigms which categorize magick as a whole.
❤
Nothing is free. Just because it hasn't caught up to you yet dose not make it free
I like Black and White magic, but Black magic is better
Dorian you should not do cipher grove rename your channel to jesu grove and pray god quick.
Nah
Stay on your path, we're good here.
You're on your path, and cipher on his. I'd suggest that, like he clearly has, you examine both your own, and other systems of belief more deeply. It can be hard work, and sometimes leads to the shattering of beliefs you were previously certain of, but it's far more noble to do that hard work than trying to push your faith upon others.
universal balance does not exist!!! aha moment
"You don't know the power of the dark side" -Darth Vader