Troubleshooting the inducer of the 80% efficient furnace
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2012
- A description of problems related to the furnace inducer.
This video is part of the heating and cooling series of training videos made to accompany my websites: www.graycoolingman.com and www.grayfurnaceman.com to pass on what I have learned in many years of service and repair. If you have suggestions or comments they are welcome.
If you are a homeowner looking to repair your own appliance, understand that the voltages can be lethal, the fuels are highly flammable and high pressures are used. Know your limits. - Навчання та стиль
Wow!! Woke up to a cold house this morning on a Sunday. I tried a couple HVAC guys and described what I thought to be an inducer fan problem. They all told me that there are so many different kinds of inducer fans that no one would have one for my old 80% furnace on their truck. I was going to have to tough it out in the cold for another day. I found your you tube video, disassembled, added lubricant and for now am up and running!!! I really appreciate your help!!
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for your website and UA-cam videos! Repaired my inducer, tensioned the belt and replaced my pressure switch in just a few hours. Furnace is humming and wifey is happy! Cheers my man, for today you win the Internet!
Gray Man - Thank you SOOOO MUCH for posting this detailed troubleshoot!! It's exactly what I have and exactly what my issue is. I was planning to pull the motor and just replace that, though after your explanation as to why I shouldn't (the whole unit is balanced together and I most certainly have black paint flaking on the inside), I've decided to replace the entire assembly. I will come back here once this is done and report on my success.
Thank you again, great job, great articulation!
I got a little bit of "friction" from my local plumbing supply guy because I'm not licensed to perform the burner work and so he was a bit reluctant to sell to me. Nevertheless, I got the new blower (and a section of pipe because my original looked like swiss cheese), got everything installed, cleaned her up real nice, tied up all my wires and I am in business! Again, Grayman, thank you for a great tutorial, you've saved me hundreds and I can feel good about knowing I did a great job fixing my own furnace. Cheers!!
Today is Jan 1 2015. My furnace is out. No, service parts stores open. I looked at your video, because my furnace inhibited the same symptoms.
I watched your video and I FIXED MY FURNACE. Thank you so much posting this video.
Thank you for making all your videos. They are so good, no text book has hands on information like this.
Thanks for the support.
GFM
This was a GREAT video and I could just send it to my wife instead of trying for days to explain our current issue. Thank you!
Like your explanation of how the inducer works in sequence.
+Lars Turner Welcome
GFM
THANKS! Just fixed ours and was good to know what I was doing. Now onto the pressure switch...
James Macanufo lol
Thanks Gray
One thing I would add is it is better to replace inducer/fan assembly as a unit. It will come with high temp gasket strip so no need for RTV or anything. Goodman inducers run between $120 to $200 depending on model (someone mentioned Goodman in comments) . Rebuilding inducer without proper bench testing setup is a shot in a dark because a tiny vibration it will have will resonate once installed on all sheet metal furnace.
I just wanted to say thanks for the video. Our gas-fired furnace was making an abnormal sound with the main blower and flame ON. Once the temperature reached set point and the main flame shutdown; this abnormal sound continued but when the inducer fan stopped after a min or so, the noise stopped. I got a new inducer fan assembly for about $100 and used your video as a guide and changed the fan.
I inspected the old one inducer fan and it's shaft and wheel turned pretty good so I was a little concerned I made the wrong move. But upon restart of the furnace this sound was gone. So I think the culprit was due to deposits on the fan wheel which made it out of balance and created this problem noise.
And one more thing, the tight space in the furnace made installing the new fan unit a pain, wish my hands were smaller and the new inducer assembly came with flat plate terminals at the motor so a little wiring rework was needed.
Again thanks for the video.
Gray.
Simply AMAZING!!!
Your explanation helped me to understand how this part of the system works.
Brilliant!!
And Thank you a lot!!
Welcome
GFM
Another great vid, thanks.
Most of the newer ones are not rebuildable and are balanced as a motor-wheel unit. However this is good info on those that can be replaced as parts. Thanks for the thoughts.
GFM
Great help! You have solved my problem.
This was helpful for my lennox lf24-45-a5
Great video series. What should be the resulting error code, if any, if no power is getting to the inducer from the control board, especially intermittent basis? Since there is a call for heat sequence starting, should it end with failure to close pressure switch? My error light is on Honeywell gas valve, not control board, and has not shown any error so far even though I hear clicks at furnace but inducer doesn't start sometimes. So wasn't sure if it could see enough to give correct error code in that case. The power from control board does route to gas valve first then to motor, I'm guessing so it could see that fact. Waiting to catch in failure again to confirm voltage, or confirm Porter HP gas fuel board relay's are working right. Thanks for any insight. Hate not trusting it.
I found white powder balls in the exhaust pipe and by the inducer.. is it condensation? What should I do
Also, I noticed that my furnace doesn't have that restrictor plate you showed. Is a Goodman Janitrol GMP075-3 supposed to have one? Thanks
** Great video & just wanted to add my experience *******************
First time I needed the 80% furnace heard the inducer wind up and then heard a "klunk" and stopped. (HINT: always kill the power. Usually will find a switch near or on the furnace). Power off, could spin the inducer manually with a small rub sound. Took down the info off the old and googled it to make sure of the part & if I was running the latest version (always a good idea, as the manufacturer fixes issues). Found I had XXXXX-00 and they were up to XXXXX-04. Used Amazon so i could see customer feed back. Prices were anywhere from $90 to $250. Went with the $100 that was XXXXX-04 that had good reviews. When removed, the blower wheel on the old one was destroyed (made out of sheet metal). The new one had a much better constructed cage and 4 screw install (be gentle with the vacuum hose. They are expensive and special) . Turned up the heat then went to furnace, flipped on the switch and have heat. Good Luck
Old post, but what do u mean old version?
Got mine fixed really easy on old 86 Carrier. Four 1/4 nuts holding it on. New sealant I used rtv high temp. Not sure if that is ok lol. You know mine was bad for last 8 years! Wobble so bad and misaligned scraping backplate. Finally it quite and stopped working this week lol.
great VIDEO
Thanks for the support. You also have some great videos.
GFM
Good video
I have a york high efficient furnace. The induction fan motor just hums. Doesn't speed up. I removed it. The fan spins freely. I reconnected the wiring and tried the furnace. The induction fan would just hum but if I spun the fan by hand it would then spin up to speed. The bearings roll easily. It is a Fasco 70624708. I'm not an electrician but is the capacitor looking thing bolted to the side of the fan motor a starting capacitor to give it extra amps to start?
whspioneer89 The part you think may be a start cap is actually a run cap. However, it is a start assist too. Replace it and it should run normally.
GFM
Just encountered a weird case this weekend. Brother-in-Law advised his Goodman 80% Furnace is not running. I check the sequence and find 120V at the inducer but inducer not running. While using probes from an Ohm Meter on it a 2nd time, I must have jiggled the faulty connection point at the inducer--the neutral side. The inducer momentarily ran, so I was puzzled. Then it dawned on me the connection was intermittent. I began playing with it and when I put continuous pressure on the neutral, the inducer ran. So I told BIL to give me a couple of Twistie Ties and used them to bind the neutral under pressure to keep the connection working. The furnace is running. Since the inducer has a plastic shroud covering the wire connections, I am not sure I can fix it. Left it for now.
Sir great video, what kind of oil would you use on yearly maintenance service to the bearing, thks
The best to use is turbine oil in a zoom spout oiler sold in hardware stores.
GFM
Wouldn't it be a good idea to remove it and turn upside down to shake out any debris rolling around in there?
I have a lennox g60uhv-60d-135-02 that stopped working. I think that I have it narrowed down to the inducer motor. When the thermostat calls for heat d1 and d2 LEDs flash fast simultaneously (normal behavior) but the air inducer does not start up. I believe that it is a 2 speed motor. It has red, white and black wires running to it. During the call for heat the voltages going to the motor are RW 120v, BW 12v, and RB 36v. With the motor unplugged and testing for resistance in the motor windings all combinations of RWB measure 0L. The motor spins freely when turned by hand and doesn't smell burnt. After about 3 minutes of trying to start, the control board goes to an error condition. The error codes are d1 off, d2 slow flash, heat LED off, on/off LED off.
Is there anything else I can do to diagnose the problem. I believe the above data points to a bad motor. Does that sound right?
Thanks for any help you can give!
Sounds like a dead motor to me.
GFM
Tips - if you replace or rebuild the inducer plan on buying a new blower wheel. take measurements of the old wheel to compare to the replacement part. Next, if you neglect to put in the main large washer seal the blower will grind on the rear of the furnace housing and make a racket. If the blower wheel is bent it will vibrate and make a racket. Don't spray WD40 or anything else into the bearings as a quick fix. They will seize. Rebuild them if you can - they are expensive to replace
It a cooling fan for the motor.
GFM
Its nice to win.
GFM
Does the Inducer work at all times while furnace is active or does it kick in only during start up for a few minutes? I assume it needs to run at all times furnace is active to keep up with the gas flames giving off gasses correct?
No. It only comes on intermittently at the beginning of the cycle.
@@metatechnologist It took a few years, but finally someone clarifies this for me. Thanks for the response!
@@waitingtohear yea the primary purpose is to clean out any stale air, combustion gases left over from last cycle and moisture so proper combustion can take place - which it does then gas valve opens, ignition takes place and then it stops. It's not meant to run continuos.
should the amp clamp be away from the motor as motor can induce voltage and the amp draw is likely to be different away from the motor .(high near the motor and actual normal away from the motor) comment appreciated.
It would have to be very close, like within 1/4" of the motor winding, and even then it may not affect the reading.
GFM
my metal casing has a crsck, like the housing, would ot cause loss of pressure?
Yes, replace it.
GFM
I have lots of questions. Can I get by with a used Inducer or do you suggest I buy new? Any good brand names to look for? They say there is water in the Natural Gas. If the inducer isn't working right (Which I am thinking it pushes the water byproduct up the chimney) would the water collect in the room so it feels like I am breathing water? Is it pretty straight forward to take the old inducer out and then installing the new one?
+AquaCarb Used is junk. When natural gas burns, the products of combustion are CO2, heat and water. Most of the water in the vent gas after the gas burns is drained out (assuming you have a 90 + efficient furnace) of the inducer housing and secondary heat exchanger thru a p trap. The vent gas is never in contact with the air circulated throughout the house. Thus no water in the circulated air. I can't see any reason to replace an inducer with what you have given me.
GFM
+grayfurnaceman When the furnace comes on, the inducer makes a rattle sound. I thought maybe a bearing was going out but after watching other videos, there is a chance that it may have rusted out and the wheel inside is not balanced. Our repair guy says that its possible the wheel inside is made of plastic and has gotten warped. The used one I saw on EBAY does not seem to come with a gasket.
+AquaCarb You do not need a gasket as you can use high temp red silicone.
GFM
+AquaCarb If you can get a used inducer (or motor) for very cheap price, I think it's still nice to try. All new parts from manufacturer are not cheap.
+Jerry Han I am a service tech so installing used parts is pretty much a no no. As for a used motor, you will probably find that the blower wheel will not come off of the shaft. Also, the inducer is balanced as an assembly so you may have vibration.
GFM
I have a question. What the hell is with the plastic flue pipe connector? Is there any valid reason why they didn't make it out of metal? That seems like a really dumb idea. I had to replace the flue pipe connector on my Goodman Janitrol because it was cracked. Luckily the replacement was metal, so I shouldn't have this problem again.
Because plastic is cheaper? They are junk.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman LOL. That's what I thought, thanks. Seems stupid to make something that people's lives depends on not failing out of a crappy material, but that's just me.
My inducer has a little wheel attached to the outside part of the motor. what is the purpose of this little wheel? My guess is that it is to check the condition of the bearings??
Hi Gray. I hope you can help me with a question regarding my 80% gas Amana furnace. I have noticed every once in a while - that the inducer fan will hesitate as it starts up, after a call for heat. (By hesitate, I mean it starts spinning. but after a few seconds seems to power down...it can do this 3 or 4 times until it eventually runs normally. It's al,ost as if the voltage is going off and on.) I only notice this on rare occasion. It can go days without this hesitation. Most of the time the inducer starts and runs fine. The furnace is perhaps 10 years old. I see no blinking codes from the furnace board. I can spin the inducer by hand and it seems to have no drag nor much resistance on the bearings. I am wondering if the inducer is starting to go bad? How would I test such an intermittent problem? I was thinking of ordering an inducer to have on hand, but would like to be more confident in what my problem might be before I did that. Could it be the furnace board? Can you advise? How could I test?
The 2 most common solutions here are the fan bearings failing and the relay or traces in the control board have an intermittent open. As it is intermittent, there is no definitive test. You can look at the back of the control board for damaged tracers. After turning off the power of course. Hope this helps.
GFM
Thanks for your reply. The motor bearings seem good. I spun inducer by hand and the fan is quiet, and spins for about 30 seconds before stopping. ... I looked at the front of the furnace board, nothing seems wrong there ... I wanted to look at the back, but I wasn't sure if the board just snaps off, or not? So I was cautious and left it on for now. There appears to be a white plastic pin in the 4 corners mounting the furnace board on the blower housing. Would I squeeze these, or just pry board off? I have a picture if I could have your email and send picture of furnace board.
You can squeeze them with needle nose pliers.
GFM
I was looking at the picture I took of the control board and I think I may see what are old water marks on the front of the control board. Perhaps this is connected to the intermittent inducer issue? I did not see a part number for the board in this picture. The panel on the furnace says it's an "Amana 80 SSE Air Command Gas Furnace". It was installed in 2002. I have googled that furnace, but am having trouble finding the part number for a replacement board (existing board has White Rodgers printed on it). Could you help me identify the part number of this furnace control board?
What is printed on the outside is pretty much useless. Look for the model plate inside.
GFM
I guess taking mine apart isn't happening. Loud humming and furnace wouldn't work. Took apart and found a dead bat inside my furnace. Took the inducer off because I was getting an inducer code from the LED. The bat ended up making a nest in the inducer and its stuck. Was hoping I could clean it out since I don't think its actually frozen if I clean it. Guess its getting replaced...
It probably is not failed. Very common problem. Removing birds and bats is quite common.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman i got like 95% of the stuff out. Forced the fan to move and it crunched the bones that were making it stick. Got a 2 inch bone and what looks like a cat's toe with a movable toenail out of it along with lots of poop. Smells pretty bad still but it just vents outside so no worries. Put it back in and furnace now works. Inducer has a whine to it now tho but can't hear it unless I'm in the basement.
I'll have to put a better screen over the vent that leads outside.
@@timmypstyle The whine is probably something you missed. If the burner comes on, you are probably ok.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman yeah I couldn't take it apart so I just had to tap it on the floor and push the fan with a screwdriver over and over until it spun freely. I'd imagine the whine is a little resistance from poop particles and urine. But yes the furnace kicks on now, LED has no more codes, and works fine except the whine.
I'll just keep the part in mind in case it wears out from the extra resistance of the urine, but I'd imagine it would eventually wear the urine down.
should my inducer leak air out the side or should it be air tight?
What is the clay colored seal running around the edge?
+Sam Caldwell Its a fiberglas gasket. Usually replaced by high temp silicone.
GFM
+grayfurnaceman Thank you for quit reply. The one that is on mine is flat and like like rubber. The fiberglass gasket I see at Lowes looks like a rope. It that a different type of fiberglass gasket?
+Sam Caldwell I would not use the rope. I would use the high temp silicone.
GFM
What about low vacuum. Inducer is running but hardly any vacuum
I would be first looking at vent blockages.
GFM
The Tech just left. I got a 2006 Goodman. and the tech got the inducer started again. He said the volts are are running high and the inducer is loud and that I need to replace the inducer pretty soon. I don't know what he did to get it started again but it will cost about 500.00 to replace inducer assembly. that's what he said. I think
The bearings are failed in the motor. He probably oiled it. Sometimes that will get it going for a short time. It could fail again very soon.
GFM
am i the only one that noticed the screw driver stuck in the squeril cage if you pull that out it might run
I believe you are.
GFM
Thats a 90% furnace not an 80%
Actually, its Janitrol GMP 075. 80%.
GFM
if it was a 90+ the end of the blower would have a 2" boot to 2" pvc. and most blower housings for 90+ are made of ABS plastic