Yes, we are not like the angry Condal hating mobs from reddit or the asoiaf forum. But the fact remains: Condal harmed the quality of the show by removing Maelor, Nettles and the reason of Helaena‘s death. Zaslav did not do this, he had no influence over these decisions. Condal did this because he thought these characters were unnecessary, not because of budget reasons. That is a poor excuse that Condal uses to avoid criticism.
True, but that doesn’t change the fact that he clearly has problems with Condal, I like your content but people are in negation, Condal is not as bad as D&D but still is very bad
@darksister81 yeah and the things that GRRM pointed out (like butchering B&C) has nothing (or at least not 100%) to do with how many episodes there are in a season
Cutting off Ep 9&10 and just filming the 8 due to budget cuts doesn’t explain the Rhaenicent nonsense, the Daemon albatross, absence of Jace in Vale/WF/Sara Snow etc. I just don’t believe GRRM is playing 4D chess with the blog post to force HBO’s hand. More likely GRRM is depressed (has been for a while) and lashed out and then deleted it once he realized the implications of his dissent. He’s probably upset at the writers for the cuts, who blame the studio. It’s a catch-22 all around. Blame lies with HBO at the end of the day, and GRRM can’t really do anything about it.
@@thedragondemands5186 Because of the strike we basically know exactly what they had planned before budget cuts. They're not doing rewrites that require whole new sets and cast during filming for Jace's journey north.
Martin wouldn't fire these shots at Condal and throw him under the bus like this if Condal was innocent of creative wrongdoing. "I have no idea what Ryan has planned - if indeed he has planned anything". This plus the "more toxic butterflies" statement seems pretty transparent to me. Why not take GRRM's statements at face value, and assume that he means what he says? Because it would be a totally asshole move to cast aspersions on Condal's writing if Martin's actually mad at HBO instead - that would be really fucked up because these statements aren't innocuous, they will affect Condal's career in the industry. Martin knows these consequences and so he wouldn't have made these statements lightly about a writer if he thought no blame lies with him. Therefore, it's safe to say Martin places enough blame on Condal personally to make him a target of public criticism, knowing full well that such remarks would affect Condal's reputation both within and outside the industry - and therefore it's safe to say that such criticisms really are about Condal's writing. In sum, Martin wouldn't be saying such things about Condal without just cause, because (a) we can assume that singling someone without good reason is out of character for GRRM and (b) Martin knows such remarks carry weight in the industry and will affect Condal's reputation. So I find it a huge stretch for you to suggest that, although these remarks were levied at Condal, they were actually aimed at Zaslav, and Condal was just collateral. That would be an extremely dicky thing to do and so the only rational conclusion is that GRRM has no qualms with taking these shots at Condal because he doesn't approve of Condal's creative choices and how he's adapting the source material. (originally a reply but reposting here for better visibility)
The cope continues. It's not mutually exclusive: no reason why GRRM can't be pissed at both Zaslav and the writers at the same time. There's plenty of blame to go around. Yes, I agree it was likely a low-balled warning shot, and surely he is holding back on the more egregious writing choices of season 2 and the "larger and more toxic butterflies" in the writing outlines for seasons 3 and 4.
@@thedragondemands5186 "I have no idea what Ryan has planned - if indeed he has planned anything" oof. This plus the "more toxic butterflies" statement seems pretty transparent to me. Why not take GRRM's statements at face value, and assume that he means what he says? He wouldn't fire these shots at Condal and throw him under the bus like this if Condal was innocent of creative wrongdoing. Because that would be a totally asshole move-to cast aspersions on Condal's writing if Martin's actually mad at HBO, that would be really fucked up because these statements aren't innocuous, they will affect Condal's career in the industry. Martin knows these consequences and so he wouldn't have made these statements lightly about a writer if he thought no blame lies with him. Therefore, it's safe to say Martin places enough blame on Condal personally to make him a target of public criticism, knowing full well that such remarks would affect Condal's reputation both within and outside the industry - and therefore it's safe to say that such criticisms really are about Condal's writing. In sum, Martin wouldn't be saying such things about Condal without just cause, because (a) we can assume that singling someone without good reason is out of character for GRRM and (b) Martin knows such remarks carry weight in the industry and will affect Condal's reputation. So I find it a huge stretch for you to suggest that, although these remarks were levied at Condal, they were actually aimed at Zaslav, and Condal was just collateral. That would be an extremely dicky thing to do and so the only rational conclusion is that GRRM has no qualms with taking these shots at Condal because he doesn't approve of Condal's creative choices and how he's adapting the source material.
Mmmh I'm not convinced, some comments like "not sure if he has planned anything at all" (paraphrasing) are clear shots at Condall. I mean he mentioned him by name (and not Hess!) that was damning. They were friends for a long time if I'm not mistaken, GRRM has to feel betrayed by him. I think he is mad at both the studio and the writers
I understand the studio cut back on episodes and the writer's strike didn't allow them to do rewrites but it doesn't really matter if the writer's thought process is flawed with nonsense to begin with. Sara Hess and Ryan Condal has come out and said that the story is low-key about the love affair between these two female characters. Anyway, I'm just saying, you can't simply strip the characters of well, their character. What's scary is, cutting some scenes from season 2 would've made the season A LOT better so reduced episodes isn't really a factor to why season 2 flopped. Also, the child actor excuse is just lame, they could've edited it the way they did in the GOT lore animation video, no blood, no gore, no beheading but it still kept the integrity of blood&cheese. Sadly, season 3 will most likely suck (story wise) because of what they've established in season 2. So who's at fault here? Well based on George's post and the ones you showed by Elio Garcia, and Xiran Zhao. It's definitely both the writers room and the studio, that much is clear.
@@thedragondemands5186 But why would they do it? If they wrote it like this in the first place, it means they meant it that way. The writing is just bad, simple as that.
It’s a triangle of anger. George is angry with Ryan for some of the writing choices. Ryan is upset with George for calling him out publicly. Both of them are livid with HBO for the cuts as it prevents them both from telling the story they want to tell. Zazlav being the person he his is taking it out on both of them for supporting the writer’s strike as everything HBO has done so far in answering for season 2 is to somehow tie it back to the writer’s strike.
@@thedragondemands5186 What I meant is that HBO could have allowed Ryan Condal to restructure the season for 8 episodes. Then they could have consulted George on how to make the new adaptations work. But instead they chose to film the 1st 8 of 10 written episodes and when asked about this bizarre decision; blamed the writers strike for taking up time. Why? They could have just communicated to the public that economic issues means they have to make cuts and since this could affect a season made for 10 episodes, restructuring needs to be done to tell a good story and that will mean season 2 is delayed. The fans would have excepted this if it meant we got a good season with 8 episodes.
Coincidentally, Keith Olbermann spent some time on his podcast today trashing Zazlov. Keith’s complaints centered around CNN, though. So looks like Zazlov is spreading failure throughout Warner/Discovery.
The attention span and reading comprehension skills of Gen-Z have been duly noted 🤣. Winona Ryder said in an interview that she was continually asking the 'younger cast members' on the set of the Beetlejuice sequel if they'd ever seen certain famous/classic films and their response was always 'no' and then they followed up with asking 'how long is it?' 🤦🏻♂️
Its crazy how so many people were acting like he said " I'm pissed" " my story is ruined " worst season finale ever ! " they butchered Alicent and Daemon etc... People just crave negativity ! SMH
They showed the children in the fighting den, how is this different from putting a doll and the sleeping twins, killing one of them offscreen and showing an evil man telling the younger child that his mom wanted him to die? They didn't need to hire a child actor. All they needed was a doll, have a nanny and Helaena carry him a few times prior so we know it's Maelor. Show the doll sleeping in the crib, the rest happens showing only the adults. Problem solved. No. The reason given is not what really happened. IMO the children fighting in the den is more disturbing.
@@humbleopulence exactly. Zaslav is not sitting in his office “condel needs to get rid of nettles and that bastard maelor “. No, I doubt he even knew who GRRM was til a few years ago.
Gonna go out on a limb and say GRRM is a pretty smart guy; between creating a Streisand Effect with the posting and deleting, and the fact that HBO is beholden to him with multiple projects in the works, if anyone were to have leverage on the suits at the studio, it would be him. People are talking about his blog, even show-only watchers, and now is the time in pre-production to try and put this train on a better track than the one Zaslav has been doing with Warner as a whole for years at this point.
Zaslav is really messing things up. It's so sad when the studio comes in and forces bad decisions on their creatives. I think we definitely need nore stuff about Zaslav and his incompetence.
Agreed. Zaslav sabotaged HOTD S2 by cutting out 2 episodes two weeks before shooting began! People may say, “that’s just how business goes,” but no, just no. What Zaslav did is beyond unprofessional & again sabotaged the show in the process through negative criticism and fan backlash. If we look at how Mr. Zaslav got to where he is as CEO of Time-Warner, it was by exploitation reality shows. He has bragged how cheap they were to produce and the money made in return. I hate all of those TLC shows with a fiery passion but I digress because they were incredibly popular and produced pop culture moments. Gag. If we look at his patterns with removing content from HBO Max, adding all kinds of exploitive reality shows and documentaries, he’s replicating what he did at TLC. Going by those actions if it were up to him, he would cancel quality shows like HOTD because they are expensive to make. Honey Boo Boo for example costs them pennies and brings in large returns. Zaslav is all about $$$ it would by his actions. Creatives be damned. Look at what he did to “Batgirl.” No one will ever see this film so he could get a tax write off. Dude does not care for creativity and quality. Thank you for bringing this up because Zaslav’s greed and the effect it is having on media is not good. TLDR; David Zaslav is cutting corners to save money for Time Warner at the sake of quality programming.
Will be interesting to see what comes from all of this. This clearly is a calculated move by George and puts HBO in an interesting situation. He could have chosen to go full scorched earth but he didn’t. He said enough to show his displeasure, it legitimizes the concerns that fans had, and it warns of other possibly bad things to come. It’s a warning as much as a veiled threat that he could have done more damage if he chose. By the post being deleted, it taps into the Streisand Effect where the information that is deleted or censored increases the public awareness of the thing. His displeasure, big or small, is confirmed and out in the public and that cannot be taken back. HBO can either make the necessary changes to appease fans and by extension George, or continue on with what they are doing and get backlash. I don’t know if another Song of Ice and Fire series can afford to have another controversial show with poor writing. I’m hoping something positive comes from this, but who knows. HBO is going to do what they can to keep making money and make the show successful. I’m hoping George’s frustrations also will light a fire and help him finish this series.
I respect your thought process and analysis here even if i somewhat disagree with parts. Yes i do agree he could have went way harsher ; though we know that simply is not GRRM's way anyway. But i think much of the ire is directed at the show-runners imo , Condal very much included and perhaps the main target. There were clearly a number of issues this season , way beyond what GRRM mentioned via several posts and public comments and GRRM certainly could have been even more critical than he was. Going back to some of GRRM's other blog posts , was it just before HotD S2 about show-runners changing authors' work / lore and how it annoyed him (exactly what HotD did and imo directed at HotD) and then again about HotD continuing messing up the Targ sigil and "roaming dragons" / hinting at Nettles' axe / merger which seemingly will be the case (pending a last minute misdirect). All that turned out to preemptive criticisms about upcoming HotD decisions and reveals , not about HBO. Those are not HBO decisions - canon / lore changes - axing / merging Nettles , dragon lore changes , messing up the Targ sigil etc ; those are Condal / HotD decisions. HBO was not calling the shots on the Maelor omission either , much the focus of GRRM's now deleted critical blog post. Nor are the "larger and more toxic butterflies to come" HBO's choices. These are all HotD / Condal and seemingly the writers focused criticisms. Even quite a dig from GRRM about if Condal even "plans" anything. To me these are clear shots at Condal and HotD. Yes Warner / HBO is partly to blame and surely i'd think GRRM does blame them to an extent but much of the critiques from GRRM i am seeing are towards Condal and HotD. Even in prior blog posts leading up to his more critical and now deleted post. Yes some has to be towards HBO and their cuts regarding HotD but much of the criticism is directed at Condal / the show (HotD) & their narrative / lore choices above all else imo. GRRM could have went into much more and been even harsher. But personally i would be surprised if GRRM and Condal directly communicate much or work together much going forward after that post ; GRRM even hinted via several public comments about potentially giving up his involvement with these series / trying to keep them to the lore. Even teasing that is quite suggestive. And had been said even before that critical post he was likely taking somewhat of a further step back from HotD involvement anyway for S3. GRRM already was less involved in S2 than in S1 according to some sources. We all can interpret differently , there is some subjectivity pending further clarity from GRRM. Not saying i am right or anyone else wrong but me personally i interpret that critical post, certain other blog posts and other public comments as much more directed at Condal / HotD & their decisions. Pending further clarity from GRRM one way or the other.
This is a small nitpick, but certain continuity-related things like the Targaryen sigil could absolutely be mandated by the studio. They already have a very strong "brand" they're carrying over from GoT, so for them to dictate that the sigil needs to stay the same is very likely IMO.
@@mariaweber1676 pending further clarity anything is possible but its hard to imagine the studio stepping in there insisting on the successor show continue a past mistake. Plus there was room / maneuverability to change the throne and other aspects for example ; so me personally i doubt the studio insisted on that. Can't imagine studio higher ups even being invested to such small detail anyway. Especially a detail that any input from GRRM would have insisted on a correction / change. But until further clarification have to just make our guesses one way or the other and anything is possible either way. I heard some people in recent weeks trying to blame the studio from stepping in with certain choices ; but most of those criticisms from GRRM i honestly can't see studio execs getting involved in such details.
I think he's warning HBO/Disney/Zaslav to stop fkn around because they're about to find out. I think GRRM is fine with burning it down and making less profits, he's a writer. It's about the story for him. I think the executives are flying too close to the sun and they're about to get burned. Or at least I hope they do, it's what they deserve (ie: consequences for prioritizing profit over art/storytelling).I think GRRM is doing what all artist with power should do: he's trying to improve things for the workers in the industry who don't have the pull and power he has, but I think he equally cares about the audience experience and the story. Maybe he can't stop what's already in development, his contract for book to TV adaptation doesn't sound like it's iron clad so he might not have much actual power, legally, but if they do this (less episodes/season, cutting characters and stories crucial to the overall arc of the series) I think GRRM is telling them everything else is off the table. Anything he can halt that's already in production he will. I think he's telling them that if they don't follow his storyline, which became an issue on GoT, He will stop all involvement with current and future projects, which he knows will tank their audience numbers because if he says he's no longer involved at all but never says why, it's because they gagged him from speaking with an NDA. I'm not watching any ASOIAF TV show he's not involved in.
This is the first time I've seen your content on my recommendations. And even if i didn't sub from just how much I agree with your words, you would have had me coming back to hear more of your viewpoints after you forewarned people not to quote memes here. That's so refreshing. Even if that only applies to this one topic: thank you. Thanks for having that much respect for yourself, your subscribers, for GRRM and for this masterpiece-world he made for everyone to submerge ourselves in as often as we wish to 😊
One thing (out of MANY) that I love about you and your channel is that you never fail to give credit to other creators. You send people to their channels and are always quick to name them. It’s truly an awesome thing to see/hear.
They could definitely fix some of the things Maelor could be a new born sheepstealer could fly back to dragon stone to Nettles and be fixed but it would probably take the 10 episodes
I like this take because Condal doesn’t hold all the power, no offense to him at all. He’s working under strictures beyond him (aka controlled by the studio) GRRM is flexing and warning the studio as he should. I would too if it was my work. I probably wouldn’t exercise as much decorum and subtlety as he did lol.
Your earlier video when you were speculating on what Martin's blog post might say, I said that I was expecting to hear the usual puff piece praising the writers and the network, but that I'd be happy to be wrong. Welp, here I am admitting that I was wrong, and I'm happy about that. LOL! I'm at work so I'm only part way though your video, but I'll listen to the rest tonight.
@@thedragondemands5186 Well, it definitely wasn't a puff piece (the post from last week, just to be clear). So I have to admit to being wrong about that. And I've still got my 🍿🍿going as this continues to unfold.
It was a rather direct shot at Condal. Especially at Condal's plans for the upcoming seasons, which GRRM was very angry with, considering that he openly mentioned it. Besides, HOTD is a story that should've had three seasons at best. The war should've started proper with Season 2, ending with Rhaenyra seizing the throne, and no, Alicent should still be super mad at her over Jaeherys' death. Then Season 3 would start with Aemond torching Black strongholds, reach its climax with Daemon vs Aemond, then the end would have the riot at King's Landing and Aegon II ambushing Rhaenyra at Dragonstone and retaking the throne, only for the epilogue to have the Starks depose him and put Rhaenyra's kid on the throne.
If this is true and maelor is indeed cut completely from season 3, do you believe they could give Daeron's death at the second battle of Tumbleton more impact by having his death contribute to Helaena's depression and death, instead than Maelor? They could give Daeron and helaena a few scenes before he goes off to fight in the reach. It could be a matter of her only kind sibling dying, leaving her without Aegon and only the madness of Aemond
I will admit i am worried people will learn the wrong lesson from all this season 2 business. people taking the martin post as an opportunity to validate their fandom beef is not encouraging, personally im not quite sure what he's angling at bc, as was pointed out, he's clearly holding back a lot. I can only assume he's trying to wield his influence in a similar manner to how ur theorizing bc we dont really have much information rn, people need to chill and focus on the real problem
I absolutely agree!!! And anyone who has read George’s works and doesn’t think that there are things left unsaid that can be figured out by what WAS said, clearly doesnt understand how his mind works.
Preston Jacobs got into trouble with commenters from what I observed because he called George Martin “unprofessional” and “a grumpy old man” and obsessed with minor details for doing this on some videos I saw with him rather than taking the view that George is being strategic and throwing down a marker, as most of us think. Carmine of Red Team Review gets into trouble with many commenters in his discussions for his apparently long held view that David and Dan hit all of George’s key plot lines in Game of Thrones and that George supports them more than Ryan Condal.
@@jclaburn what?? I don't understand how can you have read the books and still say "grrm supports d&d more than Ryan condal" or "d&d hit all of key plot lines"
No matter what interpretation I hear it still doesn't explain why he decided to criticise such an unimportant thing as the death of Maelor. He always talked about unimportant problems but the context was different too. He criticised GOT for minor stuff because he was being polite. Here though he clearly shows he dislikes it and yet still talks about unimportant stuff instead of real problems. And so now he doesn't look polite but instead he looks like a crazy book purist who's mad about every change. And I know it's not what he is but that's the image he's created for the people who are less familiar with him. This is not a good look and for the life of me I don't understand why he did it. I heard some people say that he wanted to write more posts and it's just the beginning but even in the beginning the first major problem is the absence of a choice not the absence of Maelor. But Geroge barely mentions the choice part and focuses on the missing kid for some reason. It's just weird
It's not just TikTok that killed critical thinking; Facebook and Instagram also helped. And it drives me crazy. Sorry, the death of critical thinking saddens me to my core. when I first read GRRM post, I thought he was just fed up with studio heads stopping in and making changes to other people's creative works. I honestly didn't even think about the writer strike. And I had no idea that HBO had cut the budget. It was not until after GRRM Post that I remembered the strike and learned about the budget cuts. This explains why season 2 was not exactly what we had hoped for. I did not think it was a bad season but season 1 was the better of the two. But not being able to do rewrites will do that.
The positive thing that we can take that he criticises the creator and HBO because there Is hope and the situation are not so bad… If It was garbage or something George would be quiet like he was in GOT… I think the criticism are showing us that they have a ok relationship at least
Small thing to add is the timing of the official game of thrones podcast coming out the same day of the blog post. Feel like Grrm might have warned Ryan or HBO about the post
What baffles me about HBO, is that with D&D, HBO was literally throwing money at them, begging them for more seasons and more episodes. Now that House of the Dragon is their big Westeros show, they’re cutting budgets and seasons? I think it’s GRRM throwing a hypothetical out there. “By cutting Maelor, this happens …” showing that by cutting even small things can have big repercussions. And with the reduced episodes, it’s going to severely affect the narrative. It’s going to crimp the sub plots for the North, Vale, Reach, etc. For all the complaints about Season 2, the ending of it left several plot points open for further development. And most of us will agree that the first half of Season 2 was stronger and more cohesive than the second half, which to me shows some evidence of the writers strike and episode cuts. Some minor tweaks could have made the second half a lot better and more streamlined. On another note, when we saw 80s band Spread Eagle play at the end of August, the lead singer even joked about “House of the Dragon ended early so now you guys have to find something else to do on Sundays.”
@@thedragondemands5186 I do know that (I listened to your hours of content about the HBO transition, lol) but HBO was desperate to get more Game of Thrones episodes and seasons because they knew it was their biggest draw and now it seems very counter productive to do the opposite. If we had more info, like if Condal said he and the execs had sat down and now they’re going to do 4 more seasons of 8 episodes each, I could see that working by having shorter seasons but a longer run. But, as of Sept 10, 2024, it sounds like we’re just going to get 16 more episodes total beyond Season 2.
To sum up: Preston Jacobs is glass half empty, The Dragon Demands is glass half full😃 And I mean, sure, why not? Any community deserves a diversity of opinions! The real question is, can GRRM's move actually change anything. Here's hoping for the best of the worst!
I just don't get why he wouldn't mention HBO even once. Not impossible to critizise Zaslav without mentioning him directly or getting in legal trouble. Not enough evidence for me though i'd like to be wrong. I feel like Condal is between the front lines. Trying to keep a balance but working against the top level might get him kicked out. The job is to important for him so George is firing at him for not supporting him enough.
There's a lot to unpack here, interesting video! Elio's post about changes after George liked what he saw were very telling. My first thought from George's post was that he seemed to go out of his way to avoid criticizing the studio, which frustrated me. But also it made me wonder why avoid the obvious? Perhaps your ideas explain why. It seemed like the budgetary concerns, in my opinion at least, went far beyond just chopping the two episodes. I've seen shows from start to finish, slowly losing episodes and budget along the way until they conclude and it just seemed like we saw some of that on season 2. Maybe it was just the nature of the season 2 story, but it seemed like we saw telltale signs of cuts with less locations, more indoor shots on sets, and less characters and extras. I dunno, maybe it was spent on the tent pole episodes? (Damon's plot seemed like a cost saving measure for me, for example) My point is, I absolutely think the cuts are beyond just 20% off the top of the show's budget. In the end, while I think George may have some gripes with Condal, it just seemed too mild to be more than illustrative or exemplar of the greater issues he is having, which is underfunding a damn flagship a damn network known for its shows and writing having a damn budget to work with. As an aside, I dip in out of asoiaf as it pleases me, so I don't always see the toxic parts until mainstream popularity and like fucking deep lore channels collide every couple of years for Hot D, but man I saw a little in another channels' comments and good God the haterade sippers are out tonight. A lot of my youtube consumption is media critique of some sort - tv, film, news, etc. We all know the grift/ incentive for disingenuous negativity for clicks and profit, but fuck I want a break from it sometimes lol.
I think the problem is that zazlav doesn't understand/doesn't care about asoiaf. He just wants to make easy quick money with little risk and this leeds us to little reward..it's sad because season one was nearly a masterpiece..
I think your reading of events here is the most charitable to GRRM and the writing staff for HotD. And I also hope you're right! So much of this is behind closed doors that all any of us have is speculation. I particularly liked your analogy with Succession - What if the public-facing scenes in that show were all we had? There could be a litany of emails, in-person conversations, phone calls, shouting matches, and backdoor deals that we'll simply never know about. All we have is what's in front of us and I think, though charitable, you've come to a good working theory with the facts provided. Now we wait and dream of spring.
Are you sure the prequels are covered by the initial deal for "Song of Ice and Fire"? If prequels are separate/new deal, then GRRM might have a bit more leverage.
I just don't understand how 10 or even 20 episodes per season could have fixed many of the things they've done to the story, like the most glaring is the destruction of Alicent's character. After Xiran Jay Zhao's post, I'm really convinced that GRRM has a lot more other disagreements with the writing in the show. Not just the studio not giving enough budget for more episodes.
I think hes a bit pi**ed st Ryan an what about sera hess i think she should go do you think hes made about Daemons scenes an about nettles as i thought hed have something to say about daemon his favorite character an nettles Do you think this will change anything for season 3
Daemon does nothing at this point in the book after taking Harrenhal. I don't think his arc is as bad as people say it is, or at all. I personally loved it.
I too, after spending so much time at Preston's, Charlie's, Dan and Daniel's and other credible YT channels, have been waiting patiently for this upload. Thank you. I feel vindicated 'cos we agree on the root cause of this shit storm. I believe David Zaslav's egregious budget slashes, made the show fall short of the mark not only this season, but will also affect the remaining ones. It's a big elephant that's in the room and it needs to be addressed in WBD's board room.
I agree with your assessment that George was addressing hbo and Zaslav more so than the writers. I listened to an interesting take on how Oprah ruined season two, by the channel layman’s journal. I feel his blog about toxic butterflies is a Hail Mary from George to hopefully alter the path the show is on… Yet, after years of investing my time with Got to have it end consisting of poor writing, storyline and character arcs destroyed… I don’t have it in me to do it again.
It was a bit odd that Maelor was the one maine topic of the blog. I mean, I agree with him, but i'm sure we all were expecting him to talk about the budget cuts of the season, but then again I dont see it being ok for him to do that, legally anyways. But it is very clear that the budget cuts hurt the season along with other outside factors that a lot of people aren't taking to consideration. And I'm sure there are other stuff behind the scenes that we just don't know about that would make things clear. I just don't see Condal making dangerous changes to the story in that way or going against GRRM like that. Clearly, there are a lot of things that we don't know behind the scenes, which makes me a bit anxious for the rest of the show. Also, I think the hate Sara Hess is getting is a bit much. They're calling her a bad writer even though she mostly did Eipsode 2 which a lot of people seemed to loved, especially that Rhaenyra and Daemon scene post Blood and Cheese that everybody raved over. Her stuff is probably just a hit or miss like every other writer in my opinion.
George is clearly giving a warning shot to BOTH Condal and Zaslav. Condal made some illogical changes to George‘s written story, which Martin absolutely did not like and is actively trying to revert. And while Martin did not talk to Zaslav, he still intended the blog to be read by Zaslav so that the next season could become a full 10 episode season. But the main focus remains Condal‘s lack of writing and planning ahead. I think the picture is very clear here
I read the blog post while it was up on his blog, I was shocked when it got deleted. On my first read, I really thought it was a shot against Ryan Condal because… he is literally the only person criticized by name. It took more time ruminating, and the fact that it was deleted, to notice that this was directed at the studio. It’s all subtextual, so I disagree with your vitriol against the people who accepted the “old man yells at cloud” at face value. Your ultimate analysis is correct, but I think you should have been more charitable.
I just wish EVERYONE had been as critical of the book to screen changes in the early seasons of GOT as they are now being of the first two seasons of HOTD. Changes like nerfing all the Stark kids warging powers except for Bran's, cutting Jeyne Poole, changing Rob's wife from the daughter of a Lannister Bannerman to some random Essosi chick, Changing Dany and Drogo's wedding night into a rape scene, and cutting The Battle of the Green Fork. If ANYONE had been as critical of D&D for those changes as everyone is now being of Condal it might have changed the direction of GOT for the better. But we are never as eager to shut the barn door as we are after the horses are already gone. 🤦🏾♂️
Grrm is in a vulnerable situation now death of his friends and inspiration lost 😞 so many stuff on his plate 🍽️ winds of winter and House of the Dragon volume two Dunk and egg books 📚 he lost interest 😢 make it pretty hard for him….
@@thedragondemands5186 hmm strange situation he is in with > Warner Bros discovery And the butterfly effect he was talking about is Affecting house of the dragon in season 3-4 also no 9-10 episode it’s so Frustrating I bet all involved
So one issue that I have with the blogpost is that George doesn’t seem to remember his timeline of events. Honestly Maelor is not as integral a part of Haelena as Martin seems to think. One problem is that fire and blood is a mix of watsonian contradictions and doyalist mistakes. The unreliable narrators are intentionally contradictory but then there are simple mistakes littered throughout most of which Preston goes over in his series. This leads me to believe that George is misremembering his work and didn’t check it, or he has a headcannon that he didn’t write into the book. The whole thing is just an irritating quagmire that makes no sense and I don’t believe it’s deliberate, I’d need some pretty hard evidence.
This might be a stupid idea, but here goes nothing. I understand your argument that George might have purposely chosen an "easy" complaint like Maelor's absence to give more ammunition to Condal in his fight against the studios to have more episodes, and I agree in principle, but just yesterday WBD posted on the official Harry Potter accounts the open cast call for the new Harry Potter tv show adaptation, and they're looking specifically for children to play the main trio. If Condal goes to to Zaslav saying "you gave me only 8 episodes and so I had to choose a main storyline to cut, and I chose this one involving a child because it would have been hard to work on set with little children and look at how the show has turned out as a result", couldn't he just reply that "this other big show that we're working on is entirely made of child actors and THEY are not complaining, so why should you?" I understand that I'm being incoherent here with my English (not a native speaker, sorry), but I guess that what I'm saying that the timing of the blog post might have been unfortunate because of this other parallel announcement that might have weakened George's point. Thoughts?
PLEASE people, we must not lower ourselves to the level of the angry mob!
I appreciate that you're going to be a good gardener of your own sort when it comes to this topic. Bring on the weeding. 😅
Yes, we are not like the angry Condal hating mobs from reddit or the asoiaf forum. But the fact remains: Condal harmed the quality of the show by removing Maelor, Nettles and the reason of Helaena‘s death. Zaslav did not do this, he had no influence over these decisions. Condal did this because he thought these characters were unnecessary, not because of budget reasons. That is a poor excuse that Condal uses to avoid criticism.
True, but that doesn’t change the fact that he clearly has problems with Condal, I like your content but people are in negation, Condal is not as bad as D&D but still is very bad
I think he shot some comments at Ryan. The whole " I don't know if Ryan plan anything" it felt very direct fire at him.
@darksister81 yeah and the things that GRRM pointed out (like butchering B&C) has nothing (or at least not 100%) to do with how many episodes there are in a season
He did. TDT is a coping loser.
@@Drpavel564 Unnecessarily rude. He is not a loser, but he is coping for some reason.
Was pretty clear that he did for Ryan too
@@Jamesxx15 yeah I don't get it either
If George were on good terms with the writers why would he call out that he's not attending the writers room for season 3 in that earlier blog post?
Good. He needs to finish the series. Not be at HBO
Cutting off Ep 9&10 and just filming the 8 due to budget cuts doesn’t explain the Rhaenicent nonsense, the Daemon albatross, absence of Jace in Vale/WF/Sara Snow etc.
I just don’t believe GRRM is playing 4D chess with the blog post to force HBO’s hand.
More likely GRRM is depressed (has been for a while) and lashed out and then deleted it once he realized the implications of his dissent.
He’s probably upset at the writers for the cuts, who blame the studio. It’s a catch-22 all around.
Blame lies with HBO at the end of the day, and GRRM can’t really do anything about it.
No but the strike does
@@thedragondemands5186 Because of the strike we basically know exactly what they had planned before budget cuts. They're not doing rewrites that require whole new sets and cast during filming for Jace's journey north.
@@fakenodj that's past no return
@@fakenodj even three months before filming is well past the point of no return
@@fakenodj yes
Martin wouldn't fire these shots at Condal and throw him under the bus like this if Condal was innocent of creative wrongdoing. "I have no idea what Ryan has planned - if indeed he has planned anything". This plus the "more toxic butterflies" statement seems pretty transparent to me. Why not take GRRM's statements at face value, and assume that he means what he says? Because it would be a totally asshole move to cast aspersions on Condal's writing if Martin's actually mad at HBO instead - that would be really fucked up because these statements aren't innocuous, they will affect Condal's career in the industry. Martin knows these consequences and so he wouldn't have made these statements lightly about a writer if he thought no blame lies with him. Therefore, it's safe to say Martin places enough blame on Condal personally to make him a target of public criticism, knowing full well that such remarks would affect Condal's reputation both within and outside the industry - and therefore it's safe to say that such criticisms really are about Condal's writing. In sum, Martin wouldn't be saying such things about Condal without just cause, because (a) we can assume that singling someone without good reason is out of character for GRRM and (b) Martin knows such remarks carry weight in the industry and will affect Condal's reputation. So I find it a huge stretch for you to suggest that, although these remarks were levied at Condal, they were actually aimed at Zaslav, and Condal was just collateral. That would be an extremely dicky thing to do and so the only rational conclusion is that GRRM has no qualms with taking these shots at Condal because he doesn't approve of Condal's creative choices and how he's adapting the source material.
(originally a reply but reposting here for better visibility)
Whether or not Condal was the target he got caught with a stray with the whole 'not sure what Condal has planned, if anything'' line
maybe
The cope continues. It's not mutually exclusive: no reason why GRRM can't be pissed at both Zaslav and the writers at the same time. There's plenty of blame to go around. Yes, I agree it was likely a low-balled warning shot, and surely he is holding back on the more egregious writing choices of season 2 and the "larger and more toxic butterflies" in the writing outlines for seasons 3 and 4.
at this point I'm not really sure
@@thedragondemands5186 "I have no idea what Ryan has planned - if indeed he has planned anything" oof. This plus the "more toxic butterflies" statement seems pretty transparent to me. Why not take GRRM's statements at face value, and assume that he means what he says? He wouldn't fire these shots at Condal and throw him under the bus like this if Condal was innocent of creative wrongdoing. Because that would be a totally asshole move-to cast aspersions on Condal's writing if Martin's actually mad at HBO, that would be really fucked up because these statements aren't innocuous, they will affect Condal's career in the industry. Martin knows these consequences and so he wouldn't have made these statements lightly about a writer if he thought no blame lies with him. Therefore, it's safe to say Martin places enough blame on Condal personally to make him a target of public criticism, knowing full well that such remarks would affect Condal's reputation both within and outside the industry - and therefore it's safe to say that such criticisms really are about Condal's writing. In sum, Martin wouldn't be saying such things about Condal without just cause, because (a) we can assume that singling someone without good reason is out of character for GRRM and (b) Martin knows such remarks carry weight in the industry and will affect Condal's reputation. So I find it a huge stretch for you to suggest that, although these remarks were levied at Condal, they were actually aimed at Zaslav, and Condal was just collateral. That would be an extremely dicky thing to do and so the only rational conclusion is that GRRM has no qualms with taking these shots at Condal because he doesn't approve of Condal's creative choices and how he's adapting the source material.
agree he is pissed with both
Preston: i dont think world is that exciting
Dragon demands: oh its so exciting
Mmmh I'm not convinced, some comments like "not sure if he has planned anything at all" (paraphrasing) are clear shots at Condall. I mean he mentioned him by name (and not Hess!) that was damning. They were friends for a long time if I'm not mistaken, GRRM has to feel betrayed by him.
I think he is mad at both the studio and the writers
was pretty clear that was for Ryan Condall too
He likes Hess because they share the same demented political beliefs.
I understand the studio cut back on episodes and the writer's strike didn't allow them to do rewrites but it doesn't really matter if the writer's thought process is flawed with nonsense to begin with. Sara Hess and Ryan Condal has come out and said that the story is low-key about the love affair between these two female characters. Anyway, I'm just saying, you can't simply strip the characters of well, their character. What's scary is, cutting some scenes from season 2 would've made the season A LOT better so reduced episodes isn't really a factor to why season 2 flopped.
Also, the child actor excuse is just lame, they could've edited it the way they did in the GOT lore animation video, no blood, no gore, no beheading but it still kept the integrity of blood&cheese.
Sadly, season 3 will most likely suck (story wise) because of what they've established in season 2.
So who's at fault here? Well based on George's post and the ones you showed by Elio Garcia, and Xiran Zhao. It's definitely both the writers room and the studio, that much is clear.
maybe they would have made those changes if allowed to do rewrites
@@thedragondemands5186 But why would they do it? If they wrote it like this in the first place, it means they meant it that way.
The writing is just bad, simple as that.
It’s a triangle of anger. George is angry with Ryan for some of the writing choices. Ryan is upset with George for calling him out publicly. Both of them are livid with HBO for the cuts as it prevents them both from telling the story they want to tell. Zazlav being the person he his is taking it out on both of them for supporting the writer’s strike as everything HBO has done so far in answering for season 2 is to somehow tie it back to the writer’s strike.
@@rohitsequeira6023 how has “everything HBO has done” relate to the strike?
@@thedragondemands5186 What I meant is that HBO could have allowed Ryan Condal to restructure the season for 8 episodes. Then they could have consulted George on how to make the new adaptations work. But instead they chose to film the 1st 8 of 10 written episodes and when asked about this bizarre decision; blamed the writers strike for taking up time. Why? They could have just communicated to the public that economic issues means they have to make cuts and since this could affect a season made for 10 episodes, restructuring needs to be done to tell a good story and that will mean season 2 is delayed. The fans would have excepted this if it meant we got a good season with 8 episodes.
Coincidentally, Keith Olbermann spent some time on his podcast today trashing Zazlov. Keith’s complaints centered around CNN, though. So looks like Zazlov is spreading failure throughout Warner/Discovery.
The attention span and reading comprehension skills of Gen-Z have been duly noted 🤣. Winona Ryder said in an interview that she was continually asking the 'younger cast members' on the set of the Beetlejuice sequel if they'd ever seen certain famous/classic films and their response was always 'no' and then they followed up with asking 'how long is it?' 🤦🏻♂️
NGL him saying "a few pages of winds early this year" vs "a lot of months on tv" is actually frustrating & sad.
Its crazy how so many people were acting like he said " I'm pissed" " my story is ruined " worst season finale ever ! " they butchered Alicent and Daemon etc... People just crave negativity ! SMH
They showed the children in the fighting den, how is this different from putting a doll and the sleeping twins, killing one of them offscreen and showing an evil man telling the younger child that his mom wanted him to die? They didn't need to hire a child actor. All they needed was a doll, have a nanny and Helaena carry him a few times prior so we know it's Maelor. Show the doll sleeping in the crib, the rest happens showing only the adults. Problem solved.
No. The reason given is not what really happened. IMO the children fighting in the den is more disturbing.
You honestly think Zaslav has something to do with character deletion and story points?
Budget cuts yes
@@humbleopulence exactly. Zaslav is not sitting in his office “condel needs to get rid of nettles and that bastard maelor “. No, I doubt he even knew who GRRM was til a few years ago.
Okay, this makes it make so much more sense. I couldn’t figure out why he would have risked so much by posting the blog.
Gonna go out on a limb and say GRRM is a pretty smart guy; between creating a Streisand Effect with the posting and deleting, and the fact that HBO is beholden to him with multiple projects in the works, if anyone were to have leverage on the suits at the studio, it would be him. People are talking about his blog, even show-only watchers, and now is the time in pre-production to try and put this train on a better track than the one Zaslav has been doing with Warner as a whole for years at this point.
Zaslav is really messing things up. It's so sad when the studio comes in and forces bad decisions on their creatives.
I think we definitely need nore stuff about Zaslav and his incompetence.
Agreed. Zaslav sabotaged HOTD S2 by cutting out 2 episodes two weeks before shooting began! People may say, “that’s just how business goes,” but no, just no. What Zaslav did is beyond unprofessional & again sabotaged the show in the process through negative criticism and fan backlash.
If we look at how Mr. Zaslav got to where he is as CEO of Time-Warner, it was by exploitation reality shows. He has bragged how cheap they were to produce and the money made in return. I hate all of those TLC shows with a fiery passion but I digress because they were incredibly popular and produced pop culture moments. Gag.
If we look at his patterns with removing content from HBO Max, adding all kinds of exploitive reality shows and documentaries, he’s replicating what he did at TLC.
Going by those actions if it were up to him, he would cancel quality shows like HOTD because they are expensive to make. Honey Boo Boo for example costs them pennies and brings in large returns. Zaslav is all about $$$ it would by his actions. Creatives be damned. Look at what he did to “Batgirl.” No one will ever see this film so he could get a tax write off. Dude does not care for creativity and quality.
Thank you for bringing this up because Zaslav’s greed and the effect it is having on media is not good.
TLDR; David Zaslav is cutting corners to save money for Time Warner at the sake of quality programming.
Will be interesting to see what comes from all of this. This clearly is a calculated move by George and puts HBO in an interesting situation. He could have chosen to go full scorched earth but he didn’t. He said enough to show his displeasure, it legitimizes the concerns that fans had, and it warns of other possibly bad things to come. It’s a warning as much as a veiled threat that he could have done more damage if he chose. By the post being deleted, it taps into the Streisand Effect where the information that is deleted or censored increases the public awareness of the thing. His displeasure, big or small, is confirmed and out in the public and that cannot be taken back. HBO can either make the necessary changes to appease fans and by extension George, or continue on with what they are doing and get backlash. I don’t know if another Song of Ice and Fire series can afford to have another controversial show with poor writing. I’m hoping something positive comes from this, but who knows. HBO is going to do what they can to keep making money and make the show successful. I’m hoping George’s frustrations also will light a fire and help him finish this series.
I respect your thought process and analysis here even if i somewhat disagree with parts. Yes i do agree he could have went way harsher ; though we know that simply is not GRRM's way anyway. But i think much of the ire is directed at the show-runners imo , Condal very much included and perhaps the main target. There were clearly a number of issues this season , way beyond what GRRM mentioned via several posts and public comments and GRRM certainly could have been even more critical than he was. Going back to some of GRRM's other blog posts , was it just before HotD S2 about show-runners changing authors' work / lore and how it annoyed him (exactly what HotD did and imo directed at HotD) and then again about HotD continuing messing up the Targ sigil and "roaming dragons" / hinting at Nettles' axe / merger which seemingly will be the case (pending a last minute misdirect). All that turned out to preemptive criticisms about upcoming HotD decisions and reveals , not about HBO.
Those are not HBO decisions - canon / lore changes - axing / merging Nettles , dragon lore changes , messing up the Targ sigil etc ; those are Condal / HotD decisions. HBO was not calling the shots on the Maelor omission either , much the focus of GRRM's now deleted critical blog post. Nor are the "larger and more toxic butterflies to come" HBO's choices. These are all HotD / Condal and seemingly the writers focused criticisms. Even quite a dig from GRRM about if Condal even "plans" anything. To me these are clear shots at Condal and HotD. Yes Warner / HBO is partly to blame and surely i'd think GRRM does blame them to an extent but much of the critiques from GRRM i am seeing are towards Condal and HotD. Even in prior blog posts leading up to his more critical and now deleted post.
Yes some has to be towards HBO and their cuts regarding HotD but much of the criticism is directed at Condal / the show (HotD) & their narrative / lore choices above all else imo. GRRM could have went into much more and been even harsher. But personally i would be surprised if GRRM and Condal directly communicate much or work together much going forward after that post ; GRRM even hinted via several public comments about potentially giving up his involvement with these series / trying to keep them to the lore. Even teasing that is quite suggestive. And had been said even before that critical post he was likely taking somewhat of a further step back from HotD involvement anyway for S3. GRRM already was less involved in S2 than in S1 according to some sources.
We all can interpret differently , there is some subjectivity pending further clarity from GRRM. Not saying i am right or anyone else wrong but me personally i interpret that critical post, certain other blog posts and other public comments as much more directed at Condal / HotD & their decisions. Pending further clarity from GRRM one way or the other.
100% agree
spot on mate , very much agree with all of this.
very on spot agree with everything
This is a small nitpick, but certain continuity-related things like the Targaryen sigil could absolutely be mandated by the studio. They already have a very strong "brand" they're carrying over from GoT, so for them to dictate that the sigil needs to stay the same is very likely IMO.
@@mariaweber1676 pending further clarity anything is possible but its hard to imagine the studio stepping in there insisting on the successor show continue a past mistake. Plus there was room / maneuverability to change the throne and other aspects for example ; so me personally i doubt the studio insisted on that. Can't imagine studio higher ups even being invested to such small detail anyway. Especially a detail that any input from GRRM would have insisted on a correction / change.
But until further clarification have to just make our guesses one way or the other and anything is possible either way. I heard some people in recent weeks trying to blame the studio from stepping in with certain choices ; but most of those criticisms from GRRM i honestly can't see studio execs getting involved in such details.
I think he's warning HBO/Disney/Zaslav to stop fkn around because they're about to find out. I think GRRM is fine with burning it down and making less profits, he's a writer. It's about the story for him. I think the executives are flying too close to the sun and they're about to get burned. Or at least I hope they do, it's what they deserve (ie: consequences for prioritizing profit over art/storytelling).I think GRRM is doing what all artist with power should do: he's trying to improve things for the workers in the industry who don't have the pull and power he has, but I think he equally cares about the audience experience and the story. Maybe he can't stop what's already in development, his contract for book to TV adaptation doesn't sound like it's iron clad so he might not have much actual power, legally, but if they do this (less episodes/season, cutting characters and stories crucial to the overall arc of the series) I think GRRM is telling them everything else is off the table. Anything he can halt that's already in production he will. I think he's telling them that if they don't follow his storyline, which became an issue on GoT, He will stop all involvement with current and future projects, which he knows will tank their audience numbers because if he says he's no longer involved at all but never says why, it's because they gagged him from speaking with an NDA. I'm not watching any ASOIAF TV show he's not involved in.
This is the first time I've seen your content on my recommendations. And even if i didn't sub from just how much I agree with your words, you would have had me coming back to hear more of your viewpoints after you forewarned people not to quote memes here. That's so refreshing. Even if that only applies to this one topic: thank you. Thanks for having that much respect for yourself, your subscribers, for GRRM and for this masterpiece-world he made for everyone to submerge ourselves in as often as we wish to 😊
One thing (out of MANY) that I love about you and your channel is that you never fail to give credit to other creators. You send people to their channels and are always quick to name them. It’s truly an awesome thing to see/hear.
They could definitely fix some of the things Maelor could be a new born sheepstealer could fly back to dragon stone to Nettles and be fixed but it would probably take the 10 episodes
I like this take because Condal doesn’t hold all the power, no offense to him at all. He’s working under strictures beyond him (aka controlled by the studio)
GRRM is flexing and warning the studio as he should. I would too if it was my work. I probably wouldn’t exercise as much decorum and subtlety as he did lol.
Your earlier video when you were speculating on what Martin's blog post might say, I said that I was expecting to hear the usual puff piece praising the writers and the network, but that I'd be happy to be wrong. Welp, here I am admitting that I was wrong, and I'm happy about that. LOL! I'm at work so I'm only part way though your video, but I'll listen to the rest tonight.
Since I made this I’m not so sure if maybe he’s also annoyed at the writers
@@thedragondemands5186 Well, it definitely wasn't a puff piece (the post from last week, just to be clear). So I have to admit to being wrong about that. And I've still got my 🍿🍿going as this continues to unfold.
It was a rather direct shot at Condal. Especially at Condal's plans for the upcoming seasons, which GRRM was very angry with, considering that he openly mentioned it. Besides, HOTD is a story that should've had three seasons at best. The war should've started proper with Season 2, ending with Rhaenyra seizing the throne, and no, Alicent should still be super mad at her over Jaeherys' death. Then Season 3 would start with Aemond torching Black strongholds, reach its climax with Daemon vs Aemond, then the end would have the riot at King's Landing and Aegon II ambushing Rhaenyra at Dragonstone and retaking the throne, only for the epilogue to have the Starks depose him and put Rhaenyra's kid on the throne.
So excited to hear your take on this
If this is true and maelor is indeed cut completely from season 3, do you believe they could give Daeron's death at the second battle of Tumbleton more impact by having his death contribute to Helaena's depression and death, instead than Maelor? They could give Daeron and helaena a few scenes before he goes off to fight in the reach. It could be a matter of her only kind sibling dying, leaving her without Aegon and only the madness of Aemond
thank the old gods and the new for your sane commentary, kudos 🙏🏻
I will admit i am worried people will learn the wrong lesson from all this season 2 business. people taking the martin post as an opportunity to validate their fandom beef is not encouraging, personally im not quite sure what he's angling at bc, as was pointed out, he's clearly holding back a lot. I can only assume he's trying to wield his influence in a similar manner to how ur theorizing bc we dont really have much information rn, people need to chill and focus on the real problem
Same: I’m not sure what he’s angling at, but I fear people just project that it’s whatever their personal complaints were
I absolutely agree!!!
And anyone who has read George’s works and doesn’t think that there are things left unsaid that can be figured out by what WAS said, clearly doesnt understand how his mind works.
Been waiting for this upload.
It's already dated. He made another blog post last night and I'm not really sure what to think.
@@thedragondemands5186it's moving so quick
Very well explained, again! Thank you
It blows my mind how many videos I watched that didn't mention the writers strike at all.
@@ScarlitWidow really?
Because the season was finished being written well before the writer's strike happened.
Preston Jacobs got into trouble with commenters from what I observed because he called George Martin “unprofessional” and “a grumpy old man” and obsessed with minor details for doing this on some videos I saw with him rather than taking the view that George is being strategic and throwing down a marker, as most of us think.
Carmine of Red Team Review gets into trouble with many commenters in his discussions for his apparently long held view that David and Dan hit all of George’s key plot lines in Game of Thrones and that George supports them more than Ryan Condal.
@@jclaburn what?? I don't understand how can you have read the books and still say "grrm supports d&d more than Ryan condal" or "d&d hit all of key plot lines"
No matter what interpretation I hear it still doesn't explain why he decided to criticise such an unimportant thing as the death of Maelor. He always talked about unimportant problems but the context was different too.
He criticised GOT for minor stuff because he was being polite. Here though he clearly shows he dislikes it and yet still talks about unimportant stuff instead of real problems.
And so now he doesn't look polite but instead he looks like a crazy book purist who's mad about every change. And I know it's not what he is but that's the image he's created for the people who are less familiar with him. This is not a good look and for the life of me I don't understand why he did it.
I heard some people say that he wanted to write more posts and it's just the beginning but even in the beginning the first major problem is the absence of a choice not the absence of Maelor. But Geroge barely mentions the choice part and focuses on the missing kid for some reason.
It's just weird
In my opinion was for both before this post Martin was already unhappy for some ideas on season 2.
@@MarcosSantos-dj6lk what?
@@thedragondemands5186 lmao
@@thedragondemands5186 zaslav and Condal not only Zaslav Martin was pretty clear
It's not just TikTok that killed critical thinking; Facebook and Instagram also helped. And it drives me crazy. Sorry, the death of critical thinking saddens me to my core.
when I first read GRRM post, I thought he was just fed up with studio heads stopping in and making changes to other people's creative works. I honestly didn't even think about the writer strike. And I had no idea that HBO had cut the budget.
It was not until after GRRM Post that I remembered the strike and learned about the budget cuts. This explains why season 2 was not exactly what we had hoped for. I did not think it was a bad season but season 1 was the better of the two. But not being able to do rewrites will do that.
The positive thing that we can take that he criticises the creator and HBO because there Is hope and the situation are not so bad… If It was garbage or something George would be quiet like he was in GOT… I think the criticism are showing us that they have a ok relationship at least
I wonder if Martin regrets selling the rights in the first place.
Small thing to add is the timing of the official game of thrones podcast coming out the same day of the blog post. Feel like Grrm might have warned Ryan or HBO about the post
he publicly said he would for weeks
What baffles me about HBO, is that with D&D, HBO was literally throwing money at them, begging them for more seasons and more episodes. Now that House of the Dragon is their big Westeros show, they’re cutting budgets and seasons?
I think it’s GRRM throwing a hypothetical out there. “By cutting Maelor, this happens …” showing that by cutting even small things can have big repercussions. And with the reduced episodes, it’s going to severely affect the narrative. It’s going to crimp the sub plots for the North, Vale, Reach, etc. For all the complaints about Season 2, the ending of it left several plot points open for further development.
And most of us will agree that the first half of Season 2 was stronger and more cohesive than the second half, which to me shows some evidence of the writers strike and episode cuts. Some minor tweaks could have made the second half a lot better and more streamlined.
On another note, when we saw 80s band Spread Eagle play at the end of August, the lead singer even joked about “House of the Dragon ended early so now you guys have to find something else to do on Sundays.”
Different owners now
@@thedragondemands5186 I do know that (I listened to your hours of content about the HBO transition, lol) but HBO was desperate to get more Game of Thrones episodes and seasons because they knew it was their biggest draw and now it seems very counter productive to do the opposite. If we had more info, like if Condal said he and the execs had sat down and now they’re going to do 4 more seasons of 8 episodes each, I could see that working by having shorter seasons but a longer run. But, as of Sept 10, 2024, it sounds like we’re just going to get 16 more episodes total beyond Season 2.
To sum up: Preston Jacobs is glass half empty, The Dragon Demands is glass half full😃
And I mean, sure, why not? Any community deserves a diversity of opinions!
The real question is, can GRRM's move actually change anything. Here's hoping for the best of the worst!
well now I'm panicking
I just don't get why he wouldn't mention HBO even once. Not impossible to critizise Zaslav without mentioning him directly or getting in legal trouble. Not enough evidence for me though i'd like to be wrong. I feel like Condal is between the front lines. Trying to keep a balance but working against the top level might get him kicked out. The job is to important for him so George is firing at him for not supporting him enough.
There's a lot to unpack here, interesting video! Elio's post about changes after George liked what he saw were very telling.
My first thought from George's post was that he seemed to go out of his way to avoid criticizing the studio, which frustrated me. But also it made me wonder why avoid the obvious? Perhaps your ideas explain why.
It seemed like the budgetary concerns, in my opinion at least, went far beyond just chopping the two episodes. I've seen shows from start to finish, slowly losing episodes and budget along the way until they conclude and it just seemed like we saw some of that on season 2.
Maybe it was just the nature of the season 2 story, but it seemed like we saw telltale signs of cuts with less locations, more indoor shots on sets, and less characters and extras. I dunno, maybe it was spent on the tent pole episodes? (Damon's plot seemed like a cost saving measure for me, for example) My point is, I absolutely think the cuts are beyond just 20% off the top of the show's budget.
In the end, while I think George may have some gripes with Condal, it just seemed too mild to be more than illustrative or exemplar of the greater issues he is having, which is underfunding a damn flagship a damn network known for its shows and writing having a damn budget to work with.
As an aside, I dip in out of asoiaf as it pleases me, so I don't always see the toxic parts until mainstream popularity and like fucking deep lore channels collide every couple of years for Hot D, but man I saw a little in another channels' comments and good God the haterade sippers are out tonight. A lot of my youtube consumption is media critique of some sort - tv, film, news, etc. We all know the grift/ incentive for disingenuous negativity for clicks and profit, but fuck I want a break from it sometimes lol.
I've had more time to think on it and now I'm worried GRRM actually IS fighting with the writers
@@thedragondemands5186 I think it's very possible, but I still have a lot of questions lol!
I think the problem is that zazlav doesn't understand/doesn't care about asoiaf. He just wants to make easy quick money with little risk and this leeds us to little reward..it's sad because season one was nearly a masterpiece..
I think your reading of events here is the most charitable to GRRM and the writing staff for HotD. And I also hope you're right! So much of this is behind closed doors that all any of us have is speculation. I particularly liked your analogy with Succession - What if the public-facing scenes in that show were all we had? There could be a litany of emails, in-person conversations, phone calls, shouting matches, and backdoor deals that we'll simply never know about. All we have is what's in front of us and I think, though charitable, you've come to a good working theory with the facts provided. Now we wait and dream of spring.
Are you sure the prequels are covered by the initial deal for "Song of Ice and Fire"?
If prequels are separate/new deal, then GRRM might have a bit more leverage.
I just don't understand how 10 or even 20 episodes per season could have fixed many of the things they've done to the story, like the most glaring is the destruction of Alicent's character. After Xiran Jay Zhao's post, I'm really convinced that GRRM has a lot more other disagreements with the writing in the show. Not just the studio not giving enough budget for more episodes.
I think hes a bit pi**ed st Ryan an what about sera hess i think she should go do you think hes made about Daemons scenes an about nettles as i thought hed have something to say about daemon his favorite character an nettles
Do you think this will change anything for season 3
Daemon does nothing at this point in the book after taking Harrenhal. I don't think his arc is as bad as people say it is, or at all. I personally loved it.
I'm not sure what he's specifically upset about beyond Maelor, and I don't know if this will change Season 3. I'm not really sure what to think now.
@@thedragondemands5186 the Rickard Thorne part and that also leading to Helaena's death
@@thedragondemands5186why? It's obvious now. Just accept what he says at face value. Ryan screwed up... worse than D and D.
@@IndianHeathen1982insane take
I think the promise was Nettles.
I too, after spending so much time at Preston's, Charlie's, Dan and Daniel's and other credible YT channels, have been waiting patiently for this upload. Thank you. I feel vindicated 'cos we agree on the root cause of this shit storm. I believe David Zaslav's egregious budget slashes, made the show fall short of the mark not only this season, but will also affect the remaining ones. It's a big elephant that's in the room and it needs to be addressed in WBD's board room.
I agree with your assessment that George was addressing hbo and Zaslav more so than the writers. I listened to an interesting take on how Oprah ruined season two, by the channel layman’s journal. I feel his blog about toxic butterflies is a Hail Mary from George to hopefully alter the path the show is on… Yet, after years of investing my time with Got to have it end consisting of poor writing, storyline and character arcs destroyed… I don’t have it in me to do it again.
Thank you for presenting a sane take on this. People love drama too much.
It was a bit odd that Maelor was the one maine topic of the blog. I mean, I agree with him, but i'm sure we all were expecting him to talk about the budget cuts of the season, but then again I dont see it being ok for him to do that, legally anyways. But it is very clear that the budget cuts hurt the season along with other outside factors that a lot of people aren't taking to consideration. And I'm sure there are other stuff behind the scenes that we just don't know about that would make things clear. I just don't see Condal making dangerous changes to the story in that way or going against GRRM like that. Clearly, there are a lot of things that we don't know behind the scenes, which makes me a bit anxious for the rest of the show. Also, I think the hate Sara Hess is getting is a bit much. They're calling her a bad writer even though she mostly did Eipsode 2 which a lot of people seemed to loved, especially that Rhaenyra and Daemon scene post Blood and Cheese that everybody raved over. Her stuff is probably just a hit or miss like every other writer in my opinion.
George is clearly giving a warning shot to BOTH Condal and Zaslav. Condal made some illogical changes to George‘s written story, which Martin absolutely did not like and is actively trying to revert. And while Martin did not talk to Zaslav, he still intended the blog to be read by Zaslav so that the next season could become a full 10 episode season. But the main focus remains Condal‘s lack of writing and planning ahead. I think the picture is very clear here
I read the blog post while it was up on his blog, I was shocked when it got deleted. On my first read, I really thought it was a shot against Ryan Condal because… he is literally the only person criticized by name. It took more time ruminating, and the fact that it was deleted, to notice that this was directed at the studio.
It’s all subtextual, so I disagree with your vitriol against the people who accepted the “old man yells at cloud” at face value. Your ultimate analysis is correct, but I think you should have been more charitable.
Well Said !
Zaslav is the problem entirely. Full stop.
I just wish EVERYONE had been as critical of the book to screen changes in the early seasons of GOT as they are now being of the first two seasons of HOTD.
Changes like nerfing all the Stark kids warging powers except for Bran's, cutting Jeyne Poole, changing Rob's wife from the daughter of a Lannister Bannerman to some random Essosi chick, Changing Dany and Drogo's wedding night into a rape scene, and cutting The Battle of the Green Fork.
If ANYONE had been as critical of D&D for those changes as everyone is now being of Condal it might have changed the direction of GOT for the better.
But we are never as eager to shut the barn door as we are after the horses are already gone. 🤦🏾♂️
You were right there was going to be a negative blog post about Season 2.
Grrm is in a vulnerable situation now death of his friends and inspiration lost 😞 so many stuff on his plate 🍽️ winds of winter and House of the Dragon volume two Dunk and egg books 📚 he lost interest 😢 make it pretty hard for him….
oh no he has a lot of interest; what upsets him most is if he can't finish. He LIKES writing these stories.
@@thedragondemands5186totally understandable
@@thedragondemands5186 hmm strange situation he is in with > Warner Bros discovery And the butterfly effect he was talking about is Affecting house of the dragon in season 3-4 also no 9-10 episode it’s so Frustrating I bet all involved
So one issue that I have with the blogpost is that George doesn’t seem to remember his timeline of events. Honestly Maelor is not as integral a part of Haelena as Martin seems to think. One problem is that fire and blood is a mix of watsonian contradictions and doyalist mistakes. The unreliable narrators are intentionally contradictory but then there are simple mistakes littered throughout most of which Preston goes over in his series. This leads me to believe that George is misremembering his work and didn’t check it, or he has a headcannon that he didn’t write into the book. The whole thing is just an irritating quagmire that makes no sense and I don’t believe it’s deliberate, I’d need some pretty hard evidence.
I suspect he was being purposefully vague; intentionally using jumbled up details rather than a real leak
anybody with a brain knows the blame for what went wrong with season 2 lies with Zaslav
This might be a stupid idea, but here goes nothing. I understand your argument that George might have purposely chosen an "easy" complaint like Maelor's absence to give more ammunition to Condal in his fight against the studios to have more episodes, and I agree in principle, but just yesterday WBD posted on the official Harry Potter accounts the open cast call for the new Harry Potter tv show adaptation, and they're looking specifically for children to play the main trio. If Condal goes to to Zaslav saying "you gave me only 8 episodes and so I had to choose a main storyline to cut, and I chose this one involving a child because it would have been hard to work on set with little children and look at how the show has turned out as a result", couldn't he just reply that "this other big show that we're working on is entirely made of child actors and THEY are not complaining, so why should you?" I understand that I'm being incoherent here with my English (not a native speaker, sorry), but I guess that what I'm saying that the timing of the blog post might have been unfortunate because of this other parallel announcement that might have weakened George's point. Thoughts?
@@Merione 11 year old vs 2 year old
@@thedragondemands5186 Fair point