If you decide to purchase the Kineon Move+ Pro, use code MKUMMER to get 10% off your order via my affiliate link michaelkummer.com/go/kineon. To learn more about FlexBEAM, check out michaelkummer.com/go/flexbeam.
Interesting review. We have 3 Flexbeams and get great results in all areas of treatment - superficial and deep, especially gut biome issues . Maybe I'm biased but just used to the chunky robust design of the Flexbeam and travelled with it extensively - although I can see the Kineon looks smaller and more portable maybe. Note that the Flexbeam has a $150 off July 4th sale.
Yeah im not so sure your claim that Near IR LEDs especially long wavelength around 810nm cant penetrate deeper than the skin is correct. At least for me on Flexbeams 3 setting it seems to have helped my hip joint, there is a lot less pain and increased flexibility and ive only used it there two or three times so far, early days but it seems to be having a good effect even on deep joints like the hip, I would think knees etc should be easy for it if it can reach the Hip.
I haven't seen any scientific evidence to suggest LEDs with power levels of FlexBEAM can penetrate tissue at effective depths. But even the most effective devices won't fix anything after two or three uses. So the improvements you're seeing likely stem from something else (or the placebo effect).
Sorry I don’t agree I have the kineon, and it helped remove inflammation in my f..ked knees within a few days Did my cartilage regrow … shit no, but the change was very noticeable after a short time …
For me Kineon has not helped my knee osteoarthritis at all unfortunately. Been using everyday for 10 days, and haven’t had any pain relief. However, platinumled at Restore Hyperwellness has helped in the past with just one session. It’s interesting how significant the difference was between the two.
@@carey9648You can't expect significant improvements for server conditions like osteoarthritis in 10 days. It might take weeks or months. On the flip side, a regular red light panel like the one you mentioned is 100% ineffective because it physically can't penetrate your tissue deep enough. So whatever improvements you noticed, they're not from that panel. Red light panels are great (I have several at home) but not for osteoarthritis, that I can guarantee you.
@@papas7676The kineon pro wasn’t the topic of discussion. He was initially referring to the flex beam one. The Kineon pro has better tissue penetration.
The main difference between the two is output power, and this is the most important aspect of the treatment, the FlexBEAM has a total optical output power 6 watts of pure infrared on setting 3, plus 0.5W of red light compared to about 0.5W total optical output power on the Kineon.
@@MichaelKummerHi Michael, that is incorrect, what matters most is total dose, with a minimal power threshold per CM2, this is because of attenuation in the tissue. When you compare a 2 Watt output per module to a 0.166 W output per module there will be much less penetration. if you compare 2W over 18CM2 and check its penetration depth and compare that to roughly 4cm2 with 0.166W you will see much less efficacy. you could visually compare it to a small mountain peak, and how high it is and a large mountain peak, this is an analogy for how much energy and how deep it can reach. so its a mix of surface area and total power that gives optimal results.
@@MichaelKummer I do not have that comparison, as it would entail placing light sensors in to the body to confirm, however considering the basic facts here, for NIR we have in the flexbeam 2 power LED's with more then 1000mW of output power each, illuminating an area of 9CM/2 for each LED will reach deeper then 166mW over an area of 4CM/2 simply because its way more energy. i think this is a reasonable statement, but if you have better arguments that disagree with this statement, please by all means share how you think about it.
@@arjenchristianhelder1027 I talked to the founders of both devices and based on what they told me, I didn't get the impression that the total power output makes a huge difference. In fact, both offered test reports showing comparable penetration depths in effective amounts .The issue with light is that it scatters as it enters the tissue, and more power doesn't necessarily mean deeper penetration. I'd argue that the angle at which the light hits the tissue is more important than the force it hits with. That's where I believe lasers have a leg up.
What's the minimal power output needed in a LED source to penetrate into soft tissue? I'm assuming lasers need less power since they have a very narrow and direct source of emission... b/c it seems Flexbeam has more power than Kineon.
I don't know what the minimum power output is but light angle, cone size, distance to tissue and frequency all play a role. Both devices were developed to provide the maximum effectiveness given the light sources they use.
I’m patiently waiting for delivery which will be Tuesday, June 25th. My right shoulder needs some pain relief, and I’m hoping I made a right decision. Great video. Thank you.
I have the Kineon and I really love it. I have knee issues for a long time and have struggled going downstairs, but since using Kineon the first time, I no longer struggle. I still have other issues, but I like and recommend Kineon. I am here to see if I need to get flexbeam, but I think I’m happy with Kineon. I carry Kineon at the gym, and it’s been accessible and easy. Thank you for this video. God bless.
I have a question about colostrum. Suppose it is in this colostrum LD brand. The interest rate is 100% clear. The question is what is the interest rate in the liquid colostrum that I get from the cow and then I boil it. I mean, after exposing it to heat until it boils, what is the percentage of interest loss? I mean how much interest remains in it. Will all of his benefits go away, or how much is left, as a percentage, for example? Do you understand my question?
The term "interest rate" might have been translated incorrectly because I don't know what you mean by that. But if boiling raw colostrum makes it pretty much useless because the heat destroys all the nutrients in it. So if you have access to fresh colostrum, I would NOT expose it to heat.
@@MichaelKummer What about the pasteurization process carried out by colostrum supplement production companies, such as Colostrum LD? I read about it that it was pasteurized by a temperature of 162 Fahrenheit for 15 seconds Second question: my father is sick with ALS desease Which is an autoimmune disease, in which nerve cells are attacked. The question is, can colostrum stop this disease, and can it regenerate new nerve cells? And How many grams should I give my father because his illness is severe, and how should I give it to him? Is it in separate doses per day? Should I start with a specific amount and then gradually increase it?
@@oussamaelouzeri3882 All pasteurization destroys nutrients, but the higher the heat, the more sanitized the milk or colostrum is. The best choice would be raw colostrum, but that's hard to find. So something like the product from Sovereign Labs or Equip is often the next best choice. I don't know if colostrum can cause nerve tissue to regrow. I'd look and see if there are any experimental peptides that can do that. Regarding dosing, I'm not aware of a suggested dose for such conditions but would probably start with a tablespoon twice a day (first thing in the morning and before going to bed) and increase to up to five tablespoons. That's what an acquaintance of mine has done to support his cancer treatment. Again, I don't know if that makes a difference for ALS but it likely won't hurt.
@@MichaelKummer The thing I didn't understand, the colostrum from LD, has been pasteurized. So the nutrients were killed in it, how good is it, and how the manufacturers say it contains all the elements found in colostrum ،And when you read its ingredients, you find growth hormone and lactoferrin and ...., where did it come from, wasn't it eliminated during pasteurization؟ And you made a review about it saying that it contains growth factors,and...., I did not understand, please explain to me!
I have the opportunity to buy the used flexbeam at a really good price. I'll be using mostly for my lower back, but also my shoulder and knee. Does it really work, and is it worth $375 Canadian? Will the flexbeam penetrate the skin in order to treat muscle, joints and ligaments? Should I save my money and buy the kineon?
@@ermeriodsassperini We have 3 flexbeams and work a lot on joint issues - and works very well. €375 is a good deal - but Flexbeam have a $150 off July 4th Sale very soon - it has 60 free trial and a 5 year warranty. I'll stick with Flexbeam for now - power density and penetration depth is very good
Great comparison. I just bought a kineon move plus pro primarily for a rotator cuff tear with rec for a total shoulder replacement . I have great hopes for this device and after using it for only 4 days .. I am quite impressed. As far as growing new cartilage … we will see. I have already noticed a decrease in pain and some increase in mobility of the shoulder joint . I am experimenting with other uses but yet to be determined. I used it around my neck for a neck issue and also noted a resultant mood improvement as it appears to impact the vagal nerve system and potential for balancing the parasympathetic snd sympathetic branches of the ANS. Next I am going to use it for skin density and increased collagen production . I’ll keep you posted. The only downside is the strap. It is not as adjustable as I would like and it cannot be made small enough for my shoulder so it seems to slip. I’ll figure something out or contact them for suggestions . Thanks again for your very informative and helpful comparison. 👌
![Top 4 RED LIGHT Therapy Devices [Hands-On Review]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KOBbGoTe1PE/mqdefault.jpg)
If you decide to purchase the Kineon Move+ Pro, use code MKUMMER to get 10% off your order via my affiliate link michaelkummer.com/go/kineon. To learn more about FlexBEAM, check out michaelkummer.com/go/flexbeam.
@@defw922 I appreciate the support! Let me know how it works out for you!
Interesting review. We have 3 Flexbeams and get great results in all areas of treatment - superficial and deep, especially gut biome issues . Maybe I'm biased but just used to the chunky robust design of the Flexbeam and travelled with it extensively - although I can see the Kineon looks smaller and more portable maybe. Note that the Flexbeam has a $150 off July 4th sale.
Yeah im not so sure your claim that Near IR LEDs especially long wavelength around 810nm cant penetrate deeper than the skin is correct.
At least for me on Flexbeams 3 setting it seems to have helped my hip joint, there is a lot less pain and increased flexibility and ive only used it there two or three times so far, early days but it seems to be having a good effect even on deep joints like the hip, I would think knees etc should be easy for it if it can reach the Hip.
I haven't seen any scientific evidence to suggest LEDs with power levels of FlexBEAM can penetrate tissue at effective depths. But even the most effective devices won't fix anything after two or three uses. So the improvements you're seeing likely stem from something else (or the placebo effect).
Sorry I don’t agree
I have the kineon, and it helped remove inflammation in my f..ked knees within a few days
Did my cartilage regrow … shit no, but the change was very noticeable after a short time …
For me Kineon has not helped my knee osteoarthritis at all unfortunately. Been using everyday for 10 days, and haven’t had any pain relief. However, platinumled at Restore Hyperwellness has helped in the past with just one session. It’s interesting how significant the difference was between the two.
@@carey9648You can't expect significant improvements for server conditions like osteoarthritis in 10 days. It might take weeks or months. On the flip side, a regular red light panel like the one you mentioned is 100% ineffective because it physically can't penetrate your tissue deep enough. So whatever improvements you noticed, they're not from that panel. Red light panels are great (I have several at home) but not for osteoarthritis, that I can guarantee you.
@@papas7676The kineon pro wasn’t the topic of discussion. He was initially referring to the flex beam one. The Kineon pro has better tissue penetration.
I've been using Flexbeam for months! It helps with my period pain. It's very multifunctional🥹
Right on!
So move plus pro helps with cartilage damage? Herniated disc?
Cartilage damage, yes but I don't know specifically about herniated discs.
£80 delivery for kineon Move ?🤯
Overseas shipping is, unfortunately, expensive.
Can anyone tell me how deep the light can penetrate? A
In effective doses, about 5-6 cm.
The main difference between the two is output power, and this is the most important aspect of the treatment, the FlexBEAM has a total optical output power 6 watts of pure infrared on setting 3, plus 0.5W of red light compared to about 0.5W total optical output power on the Kineon.
What matters is the max power density expressed in mW/cm2. Both devices emit 750 mW/cm2.
@@MichaelKummerHi Michael, that is incorrect, what matters most is total dose, with a minimal power threshold per CM2, this is because of attenuation in the tissue. When you compare a 2 Watt output per module to a 0.166 W output per module there will be much less penetration. if you compare 2W over 18CM2 and check its penetration depth and compare that to roughly 4cm2 with 0.166W you will see much less efficacy. you could visually compare it to a small mountain peak, and how high it is and a large mountain peak, this is an analogy for how much energy and how deep it can reach. so its a mix of surface area and total power that gives optimal results.
@@arjenchristianhelder1027 Do you have actual evidence showing the difference in penetration depth between those two power factors?
@@MichaelKummer I do not have that comparison, as it would entail placing light sensors in to the body to confirm, however considering the basic facts here, for NIR we have in the flexbeam 2 power LED's with more then 1000mW of output power each, illuminating an area of 9CM/2 for each LED will reach deeper then 166mW over an area of 4CM/2 simply because its way more energy. i think this is a reasonable statement, but if you have better arguments that disagree with this statement, please by all means share how you think about it.
@@arjenchristianhelder1027 I talked to the founders of both devices and based on what they told me, I didn't get the impression that the total power output makes a huge difference. In fact, both offered test reports showing comparable penetration depths in effective amounts .The issue with light is that it scatters as it enters the tissue, and more power doesn't necessarily mean deeper penetration. I'd argue that the angle at which the light hits the tissue is more important than the force it hits with. That's where I believe lasers have a leg up.
My dad has painful osteoarthritis and is unable to walk properly due to knee and spine pain. Thinking of getting the Kineon for him
In addition to that, I also recommend changing his diet to remove the source of his inflammation (and not be in the way of the healing process).
What's the minimal power output needed in a LED source to penetrate into soft tissue? I'm assuming lasers need less power since they have a very narrow and direct source of emission... b/c it seems Flexbeam has more power than Kineon.
I don't know what the minimum power output is but light angle, cone size, distance to tissue and frequency all play a role. Both devices were developed to provide the maximum effectiveness given the light sources they use.
We have a flexbeam. Great product but i think i agree the kineon would be better for colon scar tissue,
Thanks for the feedback, I much appreciate it!
I'm considering about flexbeam. Do you think the kineon is better than flexbeam?
Flex has more nir LEDs I believe
Great Video Mike - Thank you for a fair review based on your experience 🙂
🙏🏻
Thanks for the vids. I’m new to all of these. Really appreciate your reviews.
Thanks for watching!
I’m patiently waiting for delivery which will be Tuesday, June 25th. My right shoulder needs some pain relief, and I’m hoping I made a right decision. Great video. Thank you.
Best of luck!
I have flexbeam , sure Move+ is laser emiting?
Move+ uses a combination of lasers and LEDs. See michaelkummer.com/health/kineon-move-vs-flexbeam/ for more details.
Maybe read the documents included
I was just thinking this!!!?
I have the Kineon and I really love it. I have knee issues for a long time and have struggled going downstairs, but since using Kineon the first time, I no longer struggle. I still have other issues, but I like and recommend Kineon. I am here to see if I need to get flexbeam, but I think I’m happy with Kineon. I carry Kineon at the gym, and it’s been accessible and easy. Thank you for this video. God bless.
You’re most welcome! I’m glad the Move+ is working for you!
Which out of all the devices you've used is best for hip osteoarthritis pleadd?
Kineon Move+ Pro.
@@MichaelKummer thank you. Have you tried the Joov?
@@littlevoice_11 Joov ist like Mito - great for certain use cases but not for any joint or connective tissue issues.
Just bought it.
Coolio! Let me know how it works!
🙌🏻
🙏🏻
I have a question about colostrum. Suppose it is in this colostrum LD brand. The interest rate is 100% clear. The question is what is the interest rate in the liquid colostrum that I get from the cow and then I boil it. I mean, after exposing it to heat until it boils, what is the percentage of interest loss? I mean how much interest remains in it. Will all of his benefits go away, or how much is left, as a percentage, for example? Do you understand my question?
The term "interest rate" might have been translated incorrectly because I don't know what you mean by that. But if boiling raw colostrum makes it pretty much useless because the heat destroys all the nutrients in it. So if you have access to fresh colostrum, I would NOT expose it to heat.
@@MichaelKummer What about the pasteurization process carried out by colostrum supplement production companies, such as Colostrum LD? I read about it that it was pasteurized by a temperature of 162 Fahrenheit for 15 seconds
Second question: my father is sick with ALS desease Which is an autoimmune disease, in which nerve cells are attacked. The question is, can colostrum stop this disease, and can it regenerate new nerve cells?
And How many grams should I give my father because his illness is severe, and how should I give it to him? Is it in separate doses per day? Should I start with a specific amount and then gradually increase it?
@@oussamaelouzeri3882 All pasteurization destroys nutrients, but the higher the heat, the more sanitized the milk or colostrum is. The best choice would be raw colostrum, but that's hard to find. So something like the product from Sovereign Labs or Equip is often the next best choice.
I don't know if colostrum can cause nerve tissue to regrow. I'd look and see if there are any experimental peptides that can do that. Regarding dosing, I'm not aware of a suggested dose for such conditions but would probably start with a tablespoon twice a day (first thing in the morning and before going to bed) and increase to up to five tablespoons. That's what an acquaintance of mine has done to support his cancer treatment. Again, I don't know if that makes a difference for ALS but it likely won't hurt.
And I'm sorry about your dad and wish you both all the best!
@@MichaelKummer The thing I didn't understand, the colostrum from LD, has been pasteurized. So the nutrients were killed in it, how good is it, and how the manufacturers say it contains all the elements found in colostrum ،And when you read its ingredients, you find growth hormone and lactoferrin and ...., where did it come from, wasn't it eliminated during pasteurization؟ And you made a review about it saying that it contains growth factors,and...., I did not understand, please explain to me!
I have the opportunity to buy the used flexbeam at a really good price. I'll be using mostly for my lower back, but also my shoulder and knee. Does it really work, and is it worth $375 Canadian?
Will the flexbeam penetrate the skin in order to treat muscle, joints and ligaments? Should I save my money and buy the kineon?
Check out my updated comparison at michaelkummer.com/health/kineon-move-vs-flexbeam/ for a detailed answer to this question.
@MichaelKummer It's as I expected. Doesn't seem to work on joint issues. Thank you
@@ermeriodsassperini We have 3 flexbeams and work a lot on joint issues - and works very well. €375 is a good deal - but Flexbeam have a $150 off July 4th Sale very soon - it has 60 free trial and a 5 year warranty. I'll stick with Flexbeam for now - power density and penetration depth is very good
Great comparison. I just bought a kineon move plus pro primarily for a rotator cuff tear with rec for a total shoulder replacement . I have great hopes for this device and after using it for only 4 days .. I am quite impressed. As far as growing new cartilage … we will see. I have already noticed a decrease in pain and some increase in mobility of the shoulder joint . I am experimenting with other uses but yet to be determined. I used it around my neck for a neck issue and also noted a resultant mood improvement as it appears to impact the vagal nerve system and potential for balancing the parasympathetic snd sympathetic branches of the ANS. Next I am going to use it for skin density and increased collagen production . I’ll keep you posted. The only downside is the strap. It is not as adjustable as I would like and it cannot be made small enough for my shoulder so it seems to slip. I’ll figure something out or contact them for suggestions . Thanks again for your very informative and helpful comparison. 👌
Which is better for back pain ?
Depending on the cause of your back pain and how large the treatment area is but I'd try Kineon first.