Man, You have a nice shop! A lift is a dream! I wish I had a shop with a lift & I thought I was on my way to building a garage but, This relationship that I am in is not what I thought it was to be!!! I recently purchased a 07 Pontiac G5 which the dealer fired it up b4 I approached it so, I was unaware of the rattle of the timing chain at start up until day 2 or 3! I replaced the upper tensioner & it quieted the noise for a little while but, IT HAS RETURNED! My job cut hours down to 16hrs per week & we are getting done early almost every night however, I've heard that we are going back to a truck every night/ 7 days per week! so I figure hours must pick up! I do not have a garage so, I am hopeful that it will make it until spring but, lets be realistic! I cannot wait!!!! As soon as I can afford to purchase a good timing kit, I need to get it done but every kit is missing something! The oil pump is contained in the cover? is that correct??? If so, I WANT A NEW OIL PUMP! NSO NEW COVER WOULD BE A MUST! ALONG WITH NEW CAM BOLTS & NEW BOLTS FOR THE LITTLE GEARS! ALONG WITH EVERY OTHER PART THAT IS NEEDED! Anyways, Nice set up!!!!!!!!!!! Im only seconds into your video! Where do i need the #1 piston? Where should the # 1 piston be to align all the timing marks? The one thing that I am noticing because it is night time, Your music is very loud, & when you are speaking, its quiet! So, when I turn the volume up to hear you, The music comes on WAY TO LOUD!!!!
Sorry about the volume. #1 piston should be TDC on the EXHAUST stroke. I know that sounds weird, but that is the way GM designed this engine. Hope all is well, and best of luck to you and your employment. I wish I had a shop with a lift too, that is just where I work that is in the video, lol.
A great video except i had to quit watching, I turned it up to hear you talk then the music would come back and it is soooo much louder i just had to stop...
I have actually done several of the vvt 2.4L engines and if You check out the playlist on my channel I have a overview video about these. All of the 2.2L and 2.4L vvt, and non vvt engines use the same timing and balance shaft chains, the tooth count on the sprockets are the same, and the set up procedure is the same as far as the timing marks and link colors are concerned, the only difference is that you have phasers on the cams instead of just sprockets. I know there were some variations of the later 2.4l in the Equinox that supposedly used different timing mark alignments, but I have not yet run in to one of those engines. If you watch my video on the 2014 Equinox timing set I do go in to that a little bit as well.
Watching this a a quick refresher before I do this on my Saturn ion quadcoupe , I have rebuilt 2.2s and 2.4s before but always did the timing outside the car, definitely alot harder in the car
My 2.2L Ecotec jumped 4 teeth on each non VVT cam sprocket. It still ran fine to park it in my shop. I'm thinking I can target the crank @ 12 o'clock like it's supposed to, then remove the timing chain and rotate the cam sprockets back to 10 o'clock on the exhaust and 2 o'clock on the intake and be exactly where I need to be. Tell me if you think I'm going to be ok with that logic? I'm 2 days away from my Cloyes kit arriving, could really use the nod of approval. My upper guide got chewed up by a slack chain, I believe the tensioner failed and caused it. Chevy has redesigned them 2 times now after the first abomination was installed at the factory. Thank you in advance.
Hey joe im doing this job on my friends cobalt the issue im having is that i cannot get the blue link to line up with mark on crank sprocket i set the engine to tdc before disassembly and made sure cam geads were facing 10 and 2 but its still a tooth off
Do the colored markings on the balance shaft gears line up with the color markings on the chain, i.e. the colored gear tooth falls in with the colored chain link?, or does this not matter,? And when you say with the white dot on the exhaust side and green on inake, do you simply mean that the white gear goes on the exhaust and the green goes on intake side, regardless of orientation of the gears? Thank you much.
I just replaced everything an i have a ticking noise different from the timing chain adjuster there seems to be no ticking from what was just replace seems more on direct on top on the valve cover any insight on what you think this would be I had a broken timing chain tensioner like normal an thought this would have fixed everything
I have a question my car stopped while driving. Most of the guides were broken. I did everything you have showed but some how it will not start. I think it's because it was off probably far off when I replaced everything so something isn't on time. Any idea where I should start.
If the guides were broken, the chain may not have been tensioned enough and it may have jumped teeth on the cams. This may be the reason your car stopped while driving. If this happened, you likely have bent some valves which means you will not get proper compression. You will need to do a compression test or leak down test to determine if you bent the valves. If so, your cost will be much higher as you now need to replace the valves or install a rebuilt head instead.
Yes, you just have phasers instead of cam sprockets, and the new phasers do not come as part of the timing kit. If you feel you need them you have to buy them separately.
My timing kit did not come with all the bolts. I forget which bolts go where.the oddly shaped bolts with the sleeve built in-where all do they go. As far as the guide bolts? Which ones get regular bolts vs the sleeves bolts?
On the guides, the large or slotted holes in the guides get the “sleeved” bolts, the smaller holes get the regular bolts. I have not found a timing kit that comes with replacement bolts for everything. If the guides break and the chain wears on one of the guid bolts I have to order it separately from GM.
Friend's car wouldn't start the other day. Could tell from sound it was compression issue. Looking at the chain it is still connected, but loose (I think the guides and/or tensioner went). Do you think it's worth changing out? I know it's always a gamble but I can't imagine there would be horrible damage if it just slipped as opposed to breaking. Just trying to get a bit more life out of it. Timing kit is only $90 on rockauto
Check the brand of the Rock Auto timing kit. I would use a Cloyes, if the guides are not decent quality you could be right back where you started before you know it.
A friend of mine changed the water pump on my 2005 chevy cobalt and put the car out of time by a little bit how can I put it back in time with out a timing light
How do you know it is out of time? Are you referring to cam timing or spark timing? A timing light cannot be used on a Cobalt and cannot diagnose a cam timing issue. If your cams and crank are in the correct positions when pulling the valve cover and front timing cover, then you are in time. This is not a simple repair if you are unfamiliar with the process.
So im working on one of these. I hear a rattle that sounds like its coming from the valve cover i went to open up the the valve cover and the chain was really tight so i then decided to turn the crank and the chain had a lot of slack in it. i does not seem to have enough slack to jump time but i could be wrong can you give me any advice if it is the timing chain or not. Thank you
Really glad you did this video might be best ive seen for this motor!! Hoping you or someone on here can answer a question for me tho, im getting ready to do this to my moms car. Its exact same engine but im also wanting to replace valves just incase any were bent after jumping time. Im wondering if there is anything I need to know before removing cams and pulling the head? Its greatly appreciated if anyone can advise me on info that is helpful!! Im also planning to lap the new valves into the valve seats which is the reason ive got to remove camshafts plus im replacing head gasket and cleaning it all up best as possible. Just not sure if I have to reinstall the camshafts back a specific way before I set timing sprockets in there place or if the cams only go on 1 way 🤔 ive watched a couple vids but can't really seem to find a decent one explaining it very well..thanks for the help!!
To possibly save you some time, air check your cylinders. You can do this by removing the spark plugs, take a hose for a compression tester and remove the schrader valve, thread it in to the spark plug hole, make sure the valves for that cylinder are all on the closed side of the cam lobes (easy with the cam cover off) and hook a compressed air hose to it. If you hear no or very little air escaping you are fine, if you hear it rushing out the intake or exhaust you have a bent valve. You will always loose a little air around the piston rings, and that is normal. If you have to remove the cams from the head be sure to mark them intake and exhaust. The engine will run with the cams reversed, but not well, and you won’t know it until it is all back together. If you pull the head you will also need to replace the head bolts. They are a torque to yeld bolt, and should not be reused as they have been stretched. You also need to find a good quality straight edge and a set of feeler gauges and make sure the head does not have a warp to it. If it is warped it needs to go to a machine shop to be taken care of I hope this helps, if you have any other questions don’t hesitate to ask.
When you set the timing back up you have to do it at TDC exhaust stroke #1 cylinder. If you have #1 at TDC, then before you install the head set the timing marks to roughly the proper locations, and that will make everything go nice and smoothly.
@@JosephVollmar awesome thank you for the info, greatly appreciated!! This should definitely help, Only thing I'm not sure of is what you mean by TDC and not sure what the shreader valve is?
Actually I know exactly what you were saying, my bad lol. I Google it and then felt like an idiot once I realized haha. Thank you tho man your video and info been huge help!!
@@mattleggett5609 no problem. Don’t feel like an idiot. We all start somewhere, and the first step to learning is admitting you don’t. A closed mind will not take in new information.
My G5 2.2, I purchased it about 4 or 5 months ago. Was hoodwinked on initial startup! It was running when I approached it. It has the rattle at start up so, I replaced the tensioner on the back of the engine (32mm) luckily I had a extendable magnet on hand & within reach!!!!!! Within about a month, The sound returned however, When I changed the tensioner, I removed the valve cover gasket & the chain looked tight so, I assumed that It was FINE. Money is an issue & I am in a rush to order the timing set. The kit that I am considering is from Dr.Engine & cost $124.88 on Ebay. Do you have any knowledge about their timing kits??? Also, I am concerned about remembering exactly which bolt goes where upon reassembly considering that some of the bolts on the front cover are different lengths. I am waiting for the kit to arrive & have not disassembled the car yet. It still drives good, just a rattle at start up but, I do not want the chains to fail & run up the cost another $1,000!!!!!!!!! I will be doing this job outside, in a uneven gravel driveway...fun fun!!! It is freezing outside!!!!
I have not heard of their timing kits, so I’m not sure as to the quality. If you haven’t ordered it yet here is a link to a Cloyes Timing kit, it’s only $5 more, and I know the quality is excellent. www.ebay.com/itm/Cloyes-Engine-Timing-Set-9-4201S-Roller-for-2000-10-Chevy-GM-2-0-2-2L-4cyl-DOHC-/262021575640?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292 To help keep the bolts organized take a piece of cardboard, draw a rough sketch of the cover, punch a small hole with a screwdriver at each of the bolt hole locations, then as you pull them out, put them in the corresponding hole in the cardboard. Thanks for watching, I hope this helps.
Did you reuse the cam sprockets and harmonic balancer bolts again? I thought everything was to be torqued. When you are TDC, are all the valves closed?
Yes, I reused the bolts. They are suppose to be torque to yield, but the only place you can get them is the dealer. If you clean them up and use a little red loctite on the threads and get them good and tight I have never had a problem. Cloyes doesn’t even ship them with their timing kits.
As far as the sprockets go, if it is a non VVT engine the Cloyes kit will come with new sprockets, if it is a VVT engine I will reuse the phasers unless I see wear that I’m concerned about.
Joseph I had follow up question: Should I also have the compression checked before replacing the timing chain so I am not "throwing money away" on a bad engine?
My guess is that would depend on whether you believe your engine is worn out from high mileage/poor maintenance or because you believe that you may have bent valves from a loose chain jumping teeth on the cams. With regards to the latter, if you have 15 chain links between the two timing marks on the two cams when at the 10 and 2 o'clock positions, your cams are timed correctly to each other and you don't have to worry about having bent the valves. If the engine cranks evenly, your compression is likely similar on all 4 cylinders.
@@normvargas1314 Thanks so much. We bought the car new in 2007 and have changed the oil regularly ever since. The engine seems to run fine but makes sounds when starting it up that I am told may be the timing chain. 200,000 miles. one owner.
@@MrAerocomposites I recently replaced my timing chain with a kit with new chain and 3 new guides. It was getting noisy at the front of the valve cover (left side where the cam sprockets are). The guides showed little wear, but the noise was noticeable. I think the chain wears and stretches and that is the main cause of slack and noise. If it gets worse, the chain can slap and break the plastic guides and then the destruction occurs. It is much quieter now, but the balance shaft chain is still original and it makes some similar noise, but from down low on the engine. A complete fix would do both chains and all associated hardware, plus water pump since it is in there, too.
So when the cam gears are at INT 2’ and EXH 10’ does that mean it’s timed right? Like on the takedown? I know it’s supposed to be TDC on the exhaust stroke, and that’s supposed to be INT at 2 o clock and EXH at 10 o clock I’m just wondering if the cams line up the same like that at different strokes, or if its lined up 10 and 2 then it’s for sure on TDC of exhaust and ready to take down to do timing.
That is the correct relationship of the cams to each other and they are only in that position on the correct stroke. The crank will have the key facing up to the roughly 12:30 position and the timing mark will be at the 4:30 position roughly. If all 3 are correct, your timing is correct. Note that the marks on the chain will not line up when you inspect it, but can be anywhere. Each 2 turns of the crank will move them 5 links in relation to the marks on the cams and crank. GM however does not recommend turning the engine by hand since the ex cam can jump forward and out of time.
@@normvargas1314 so idk what I screwed up, but all my timing marks were correct when I put it all in, followed the book to the t, and yet when I tried to hand turn engine it went around one rotation and then when I tried to do the next it wouldn’t pass more than like a 1/5 turn. Can anyone help? I see a bunch of videos/ guides on how to time it but not how to FIX messed up timing.
@@tylergreen2113 GM recommends NOT to turn the motor once it is timed and assembled. I know it feels weird to just trust it and not turn it by hand, but problems can arise if that is done. Turning by hand can make the exhaust cam jump forward so just double check the marks and close it up and fire it up. Did you have any broken parts when you took it apart? Are there broken guides or pieces that have fallen into the gears? I'm not sure what is causing your motor to bind, but if it is still opened up, double check all is torqued and clean. Good luck.
I wish it was a 17 minute job, lol. I don't know how many times I have done this job now, and I have only managed to shave it down to about 1.5 hours in a shop on a lift. Best of luck getting yours taken care of. Don't worry its not hard, just tedious and time consuming. Please share this video with others, and thank you for watching.
At what point did you change the water pump? I assume the chain just goes around the sprocket on the pump and not timed in any way? With everything off is removing the sprocket on pump needed to install pump? Thanks and Great Video going to do my 2004 ion next week.
Yes the chain just goes around the water pump sprocket. You do have to remove the water pump sprocket to get the water pump out. The only time I change them as if they’re leaking, because I have found aftermarket pumps do not last nearly as long as the factory ones. I have a special tool that you just take the cover off and it bolts into the water pump sprocket to hold it in position when you change the water pump so that you do not have to re-time the engine.
Use the wrench on the cam flats to roll them around where you need them to be. Just remember if you feel heavy resistance and they don’t want to move you’re going to have to roll the engine over a little bit to let the valves clear the Pistons don’t force it or you could be in the valves.
i'm finishing up my Grand Daughter's 2004 Saturn Ion 2.2. It had 154K on it and the plastic chain guide broke in 3 pieces chain jumped and damage valves. I replaced the head and both chains timing and balance. One of the guide bolts had broke off and the other was badly worn from chain rubbing on it as that portion of the guide was missing. How it ran as long as it did is beyond me. I would change the timing and balance assembly at around the 100k mark to play it safe so you don't ruin the cylinder head or pistons.
I cant honestly answer that. I have done so many it is an easy money maker anymore. The first one I did, was a pain trying to figure out different ways to get to different fasteners, but I have it down to a fine art now, lol. Next on I do maybe I will have to do a tips and tricks video.
Very detailed video. Great job! I am currently planning on replacing the timing chain kit on a 2.2 Vectra C I recently bought. Could you please share if I need to replace the balance chain set as well or I can just skip that? The car curently has around 155k miles/250k KM.
I just subscribed. Thank you for the video. We bought our 2007 Cobalt new from the dealer and have driven it for over 200,000 miles. How much would it cost to replace the timing chain? My mechanic thinks the water pump should also be replaced with a "kit". I am in Philadelphia. Can anyone out there provide some info? Thanks.
Seriously get rid of the music while you’re fast fowarding it’s super annoying ! If you can please raise your volume up while your talking ! But other than that well detailed video !
That is correct. You cannot remove the guides without removing the chain. If you are going to replace the guides you might as well replace the chain while your at it. It’s really not hard to time though.
What do you mean by, "A pin punch"??? I will be doing this in a gravel driveway that is all messed up from water flow eroding a deep groove on one side of the driveway & it is enclosed by 4x4's on one side & our house on the other! If it were up to me, The useless 4x4's would be gone! They use to hold up a carport which no longer exists so now, They only block us in! Useless! I only have a porter cable impact driver, no other automotive electronic tools, a 26 gall air compressor but, my air powered impact died. I do have a 3/8ths air powered wratchet but, i hardly use it because it does not have break away power! I will be using mainly hand tools. I purchased my air tools second hand, I believe it is a combo set that is sold at walmart but, I am not 100% sure, I am pretty sure its the exact set! Anyways, will I be able to break the crank bolt, & the two small gears loose with a breaker bar? I do have my porter cable impact/drill with 1/4" tip but, its weak link it the 1/2' Craftsman (supposedly impact) adaptor which allows me to attach a socket to it. So, I hope that I do not snap another adaptor trying! My questions to you are, Where do I put the number one piston to start with? at tdc? & Will I be able to break the bolts loose on the two small gears & the crank bolt with a breaker bar? Also, Does the timing cover house the oil pump? I also believe it to be important that the timing kit include a new gasket for the timing cover along with all of the torque to yield bolts for the crank, the 2 small gears, & the 2 camshaft gear bolts! On my 03 focus (zetec engine), I was on concrete & used the starter & wedged the breaker bar onto the ground & touched the key just momentarily to break the crank bolt loose when I did the timing belt on my focus but, on my Pontiac, I will be doing it in a uneven gravel driveway! In your video, You didn't film at least, using a screw driver or a wooden peg/stick to show where the piston is supposed to be when the timing marks line up. Should the number 1 piston be at top dead center???
The #1 piston should be at TDC On the exhaust stroke. I know that sounds weird, but that is what GM engineered in to these. A pin punch is just a round punch with a flat tip, they come in different tip sizes for getting in to holes and driving out roll pins and things like that. The oil pump is built in to the timing cover, so yes definitely a good idea to put a new timing cover gasket on. You can do this with hand tools, but given the worksite conditions you describe it’s definitely not going to make it very easy. If you have a little money, check local pawn shops. I stop in from time to time because I have gotten some great deals on Snap-on, Matco, etc tools in like new condition.
Good work. Extremely annoying music. At least turn the volume of the music down. I can't stress enough, the music is annoying. Yes, extremely annoying music. TURN THE DAMN'D MUSIC DOWN!!!!!!
Man, You have a nice shop! A lift is a dream! I wish I had a shop with a lift & I thought I was on my way to building a garage but, This relationship that I am in is not what I thought it was to be!!! I recently purchased a 07 Pontiac G5 which the dealer fired it up b4 I approached it so, I was unaware of the rattle of the timing chain at start up until day 2 or 3! I replaced the upper tensioner & it quieted the noise for a little while but, IT HAS RETURNED! My job cut hours down to 16hrs per week & we are getting done early almost every night however, I've heard that we are going back to a truck every night/ 7 days per week! so I figure hours must pick up! I do not have a garage so, I am hopeful that it will make it until spring but, lets be realistic! I cannot wait!!!! As soon as I can afford to purchase a good timing kit, I need to get it done but every kit is missing something! The oil pump is contained in the cover? is that correct??? If so, I WANT A NEW OIL PUMP! NSO NEW COVER WOULD BE A MUST! ALONG WITH NEW CAM BOLTS & NEW BOLTS FOR THE LITTLE GEARS! ALONG WITH EVERY OTHER PART THAT IS NEEDED! Anyways, Nice set up!!!!!!!!!!! Im only seconds into your video! Where do i need the #1 piston? Where should the # 1 piston be to align all the timing marks? The one thing that I am noticing because it is night time, Your music is very loud, & when you are speaking, its quiet! So, when I turn the volume up to hear you, The music comes on WAY TO LOUD!!!!
Sorry about the volume. #1 piston should be TDC on the EXHAUST stroke. I know that sounds weird, but that is the way GM designed this engine. Hope all is well, and best of luck to you and your employment. I wish I had a shop with a lift too, that is just where I work that is in the video, lol.
great video,changing out mine now as i watch this,put on pause run outside,work a little come back inside to catch up.thanks a lot.
A great video except i had to quit watching, I turned it up to hear you talk then the music would come back and it is soooo much louder i just had to stop...
Very good video one of the best, the later model Ecotec engines are VVT so there are a very different steps that are different but great effort!
I have actually done several of the vvt 2.4L engines and if You check out the playlist on my channel I have a overview video about these. All of the 2.2L and 2.4L vvt, and non vvt engines use the same timing and balance shaft chains, the tooth count on the sprockets are the same, and the set up procedure is the same as far as the timing marks and link colors are concerned, the only difference is that you have phasers on the cams instead of just sprockets. I know there were some variations of the later 2.4l in the Equinox that supposedly used different timing mark alignments, but I have not yet run in to one of those engines. If you watch my video on the 2014 Equinox timing set I do go in to that a little bit as well.
@@JosephVollmarI might have to do this on my 10 hhr 2.4
Same as this video or should I pay more attention to the 14 equinox?
Watching this a a quick refresher before I do this on my Saturn ion quadcoupe , I have rebuilt 2.2s and 2.4s before but always did the timing outside the car, definitely alot harder in the car
i used a KD tools 3680 serp tool, took off crank pulley with breaker bar under control arm and turned over engine
took me 4.25 hours without power tools
Who rebuilds engines in todays world? Most times it's crusher or a rebuilt one. lol
@@billmonroe8826 "Crusher or a rebuilt one." But you ask who rebuilds engines lol
My 2.2L Ecotec jumped 4 teeth on each non VVT cam sprocket. It still ran fine to park it in my shop. I'm thinking I can target the crank @ 12 o'clock like it's supposed to, then remove the timing chain and rotate the cam sprockets back to 10 o'clock on the exhaust and 2 o'clock on the intake and be exactly where I need to be. Tell me if you think I'm going to be ok with that logic? I'm 2 days away from my Cloyes kit arriving, could really use the nod of approval.
My upper guide got chewed up by a slack chain, I believe the tensioner failed and caused it. Chevy has redesigned them 2 times now after the first abomination was installed at the factory.
Thank you in advance.
Hey joe im doing this job on my friends cobalt the issue im having is that i cannot get the blue link to line up with mark on crank sprocket i set the engine to tdc before disassembly and made sure cam geads were facing 10 and 2 but its still a tooth off
Thank you for the video!
How do you differentiate between timing vhain needing replaced and timing chain tensioner needing replaced?
Your video helped me thank you very much
Do the colored markings on the balance shaft gears line up with the color markings on the chain, i.e. the colored gear tooth falls in with the colored chain link?, or does this not matter,?
And when you say with the white dot on the exhaust side and green on inake, do you simply mean that the white gear goes on the exhaust and the green goes on intake side, regardless of orientation of the gears?
Thank you much.
How much did you charge? And how many hours of your service?
Did you have to set the torques at a specific number when you timed the exhaust and intake sprockets?
I have a 2009 Cobalt LT, I was wondering if you had a link to a kit that would have all the parts I would need, or a list of parts I would need.
I just replaced everything an i have a ticking noise different from the timing chain adjuster there seems to be no ticking from what was just replace seems more on direct on top on the valve cover any insight on what you think this would be I had a broken timing chain tensioner like normal an thought this would have fixed everything
That might be your lifters you could have a bad lifter spring
I have a question my car stopped while driving. Most of the guides were broken. I did everything you have showed but some how it will not start. I think it's because it was off probably far off when I replaced everything so something isn't on time. Any idea where I should start.
If the guides were broken, the chain may not have been tensioned enough and it may have jumped teeth on the cams. This may be the reason your car stopped while driving. If this happened, you likely have bent some valves which means you will not get proper compression. You will need to do a compression test or leak down test to determine if you bent the valves. If so, your cost will be much higher as you now need to replace the valves or install a rebuilt head instead.
I have a 2010 with the vvt is the process the same
Yes, you just have phasers instead of cam sprockets, and the new phasers do not come as part of the timing kit. If you feel you need them you have to buy them separately.
does the engine have to be on exhaust or compression stroke
to do timing
My timing kit did not come with all the bolts. I forget which bolts go where.the oddly shaped bolts with the sleeve built in-where all do they go. As far as the guide bolts? Which ones get regular bolts vs the sleeves bolts?
On the guides, the large or slotted holes in the guides get the “sleeved” bolts, the smaller holes get the regular bolts. I have not found a timing kit that comes with replacement bolts for everything. If the guides break and the chain wears on one of the guid bolts I have to order it separately from GM.
All of the odd bolts with the sleeve should be guide bolts.
did you have trouble starting car after
Friend's car wouldn't start the other day. Could tell from sound it was compression issue. Looking at the chain it is still connected, but loose (I think the guides and/or tensioner went). Do you think it's worth changing out? I know it's always a gamble but I can't imagine there would be horrible damage if it just slipped as opposed to breaking. Just trying to get a bit more life out of it. Timing kit is only $90 on rockauto
Air check the cylinders to make sure you don’t have any bent valves, if that checks out ok put a timing set up n it and you should be good to go.
Check the brand of the Rock Auto timing kit. I would use a Cloyes, if the guides are not decent quality you could be right back where you started before you know it.
Awesome man, and will do. Thanks for the speedy reply. Happy Holidays!
A friend of mine changed the water pump on my 2005 chevy cobalt and put the car out of time by a little bit how can I put it back in time with out a timing light
How do you know it is out of time? Are you referring to cam timing or spark timing? A timing light cannot be used on a Cobalt and cannot diagnose a cam timing issue. If your cams and crank are in the correct positions when pulling the valve cover and front timing cover, then you are in time. This is not a simple repair if you are unfamiliar with the process.
So im working on one of these. I hear a rattle that sounds like its coming from the valve cover i went to open up the the valve cover and the chain was really tight so i then decided to turn the crank and the chain had a lot of slack in it. i does not seem to have enough slack to jump time but i could be wrong can you give me any advice if it is the timing chain or not. Thank you
Your tensioner is bad
Really glad you did this video might be best ive seen for this motor!! Hoping you or someone on here can answer a question for me tho, im getting ready to do this to my moms car. Its exact same engine but im also wanting to replace valves just incase any were bent after jumping time. Im wondering if there is anything I need to know before removing cams and pulling the head? Its greatly appreciated if anyone can advise me on info that is helpful!! Im also planning to lap the new valves into the valve seats which is the reason ive got to remove camshafts plus im replacing head gasket and cleaning it all up best as possible. Just not sure if I have to reinstall the camshafts back a specific way before I set timing sprockets in there place or if the cams only go on 1 way 🤔 ive watched a couple vids but can't really seem to find a decent one explaining it very well..thanks for the help!!
To possibly save you some time, air check your cylinders. You can do this by removing the spark plugs, take a hose for a compression tester and remove the schrader valve, thread it in to the spark plug hole, make sure the valves for that cylinder are all on the closed side of the cam lobes (easy with the cam cover off) and hook a compressed air hose to it. If you hear no or very little air escaping you are fine, if you hear it rushing out the intake or exhaust you have a bent valve. You will always loose a little air around the piston rings, and that is normal.
If you have to remove the cams from the head be sure to mark them intake and exhaust. The engine will run with the cams reversed, but not well, and you won’t know it until it is all back together. If you pull the head you will also need to replace the head bolts. They are a torque to yeld bolt, and should not be reused as they have been stretched. You also need to find a good quality straight edge and a set of feeler gauges and make sure the head does not have a warp to it. If it is warped it needs to go to a machine shop to be taken care of
I hope this helps, if you have any other questions don’t hesitate to ask.
When you set the timing back up you have to do it at TDC exhaust stroke #1 cylinder. If you have #1 at TDC, then before you install the head set the timing marks to roughly the proper locations, and that will make everything go nice and smoothly.
@@JosephVollmar awesome thank you for the info, greatly appreciated!! This should definitely help, Only thing I'm not sure of is what you mean by TDC and not sure what the shreader valve is?
Actually I know exactly what you were saying, my bad lol. I Google it and then felt like an idiot once I realized haha. Thank you tho man your video and info been huge help!!
@@mattleggett5609 no problem. Don’t feel like an idiot. We all start somewhere, and the first step to learning is admitting you don’t. A closed mind will not take in new information.
My G5 2.2, I purchased it about 4 or 5 months ago. Was hoodwinked on initial startup! It was running when I approached it. It has the rattle at start up so, I replaced the tensioner on the back of the engine (32mm) luckily I had a extendable magnet on hand & within reach!!!!!! Within about a month, The sound returned however, When I changed the tensioner, I removed the valve cover gasket & the chain looked tight so, I assumed that It was FINE. Money is an issue & I am in a rush to order the timing set. The kit that I am considering is from Dr.Engine & cost $124.88 on Ebay. Do you have any knowledge about their timing kits??? Also, I am concerned about remembering exactly which bolt goes where upon reassembly considering that some of the bolts on the front cover are different lengths. I am waiting for the kit to arrive & have not disassembled the car yet. It still drives good, just a rattle at start up but, I do not want the chains to fail & run up the cost another $1,000!!!!!!!!! I will be doing this job outside, in a uneven gravel driveway...fun fun!!! It is freezing outside!!!!
I have not heard of their timing kits, so I’m not sure as to the quality. If you haven’t ordered it yet here is a link to a Cloyes Timing kit, it’s only $5 more, and I know the quality is excellent.
www.ebay.com/itm/Cloyes-Engine-Timing-Set-9-4201S-Roller-for-2000-10-Chevy-GM-2-0-2-2L-4cyl-DOHC-/262021575640?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
To help keep the bolts organized take a piece of cardboard, draw a rough sketch of the cover, punch a small hole with a screwdriver at each of the bolt hole locations, then as you pull them out, put them in the corresponding hole in the cardboard.
Thanks for watching, I hope this helps.
I ordered a kit that came with the oil pump/front cover & gasket, water pump, along g with both chain sets & guides
Was it necessary to drain the coolant on this one? I'm not replacing the water pump, so does it matter? Thanks.
Nope coolant stays in it.
@@JosephVollmar Awesome, thanks man. Great video too, helped me out quite a bit.
Did you reuse the cam sprockets and harmonic balancer bolts again? I thought everything was to be torqued. When you are TDC, are all the valves closed?
Yes, I reused the bolts. They are suppose to be torque to yield, but the only place you can get them is the dealer. If you clean them up and use a little red loctite on the threads and get them good and tight I have never had a problem. Cloyes doesn’t even ship them with their timing kits.
As far as the sprockets go, if it is a non VVT engine the Cloyes kit will come with new sprockets, if it is a VVT engine I will reuse the phasers unless I see wear that I’m concerned about.
When you are at TDC all of the valves are not closed because you are only at TDC for one cylinder.
Joseph I had follow up question:
Should I also have the compression checked before replacing the timing chain so I am not "throwing money away" on a bad engine?
My guess is that would depend on whether you believe your engine is worn out from high mileage/poor maintenance or because you believe that you may have bent valves from a loose chain jumping teeth on the cams. With regards to the latter, if you have 15 chain links between the two timing marks on the two cams when at the 10 and 2 o'clock positions, your cams are timed correctly to each other and you don't have to worry about having bent the valves. If the engine cranks evenly, your compression is likely similar on all 4 cylinders.
@@normvargas1314 Thanks so much. We bought the car new in 2007 and have changed the oil regularly ever since. The engine seems to run fine but makes sounds when starting it up that I am told may be the timing chain. 200,000 miles. one owner.
@@MrAerocomposites I recently replaced my timing chain with a kit with new chain and 3 new guides. It was getting noisy at the front of the valve cover (left side where the cam sprockets are). The guides showed little wear, but the noise was noticeable. I think the chain wears and stretches and that is the main cause of slack and noise. If it gets worse, the chain can slap and break the plastic guides and then the destruction occurs. It is much quieter now, but the balance shaft chain is still original and it makes some similar noise, but from down low on the engine. A complete fix would do both chains and all associated hardware, plus water pump since it is in there, too.
Thank you 😊
So when the cam gears are at INT 2’ and EXH 10’ does that mean it’s timed right? Like on the takedown? I know it’s supposed to be TDC on the exhaust stroke, and that’s supposed to be INT at 2 o clock and EXH at 10 o clock I’m just wondering if the cams line up the same like that at different strokes, or if its lined up 10 and 2 then it’s for sure on TDC of exhaust and ready to take down to do timing.
That is the correct relationship of the cams to each other and they are only in that position on the correct stroke. The crank will have the key facing up to the roughly 12:30 position and the timing mark will be at the 4:30 position roughly. If all 3 are correct, your timing is correct. Note that the marks on the chain will not line up when you inspect it, but can be anywhere. Each 2 turns of the crank will move them 5 links in relation to the marks on the cams and crank. GM however does not recommend turning the engine by hand since the ex cam can jump forward and out of time.
@@normvargas1314 thank you so much!
@@normvargas1314 so idk what I screwed up, but all my timing marks were correct when I put it all in, followed the book to the t, and yet when I tried to hand turn engine it went around one rotation and then when I tried to do the next it wouldn’t pass more than like a 1/5 turn. Can anyone help? I see a bunch of videos/ guides on how to time it but not how to FIX messed up timing.
@@tylergreen2113 GM recommends NOT to turn the motor once it is timed and assembled. I know it feels weird to just trust it and not turn it by hand, but problems can arise if that is done. Turning by hand can make the exhaust cam jump forward so just double check the marks and close it up and fire it up.
Did you have any broken parts when you took it apart? Are there broken guides or pieces that have fallen into the gears? I'm not sure what is causing your motor to bind, but if it is still opened up, double check all is torqued and clean. Good luck.
I have this job to do, thank goodness it is a 17minute job
I wish it was a 17 minute job, lol. I don't know how many times I have done this job now, and I have only managed to shave it down to about 1.5 hours in a shop on a lift. Best of luck getting yours taken care of. Don't worry its not hard, just tedious and time consuming. Please share this video with others, and thank you for watching.
@@JosephVollmar 1.5 hrs would be amazing. I’ll find out how long it takes me as soon as weather breaks
Aren't the camshaft sprocket bolts supposed to be torque-to-yield?
Yes they are. I bought new CLOYES bolts from O'Reilly and they were only $12 for the pair. Available next day.
At what point did you change the water pump? I assume the chain just goes around the sprocket on the pump and not timed in any way? With everything off is removing the sprocket on pump needed to install pump?
Thanks and Great Video going to do my 2004 ion next week.
Yes the chain just goes around the water pump sprocket. You do have to remove the water pump sprocket to get the water pump out. The only time I change them as if they’re leaking, because I have found aftermarket pumps do not last nearly as long as the factory ones. I have a special tool that you just take the cover off and it bolts into the water pump sprocket to hold it in position when you change the water pump so that you do not have to re-time the engine.
I need that tool lol
Very good video.
What can I expect to pay for labor on this job?
At a performance shop I worked at it differed from $600-1200 depending on car and how long it took
What do you do if the timing marks at the top are off how do you adjust the timing?
Use the wrench on the cam flats to roll them around where you need them to be. Just remember if you feel heavy resistance and they don’t want to move you’re going to have to roll the engine over a little bit to let the valves clear the Pistons don’t force it or you could be in the valves.
@@JosephVollmar ok thank u
How good are the 2.2 in a saturn veu with 100k
i'm finishing up my Grand Daughter's 2004 Saturn Ion 2.2. It had 154K on it and the plastic chain guide broke in 3 pieces chain jumped and damage valves. I replaced the head and both chains timing and balance. One of the guide bolts had broke off and the other was badly worn from chain rubbing on it as that portion of the guide was missing. How it ran as long as it did is beyond me. I would change the timing and balance assembly at around the 100k mark to play it safe so you don't ruin the cylinder head or pistons.
On a scale of 1 to 10 how hard is it to do that job
I cant honestly answer that. I have done so many it is an easy money maker anymore. The first one I did, was a pain trying to figure out different ways to get to different fasteners, but I have it down to a fine art now, lol. Next on I do maybe I will have to do a tips and tricks video.
thank you
So do you have to use a timing chane lock
Joshua Strong no. I have never used one on the 2.2/2.4l engines.
Very detailed video. Great job! I am currently planning on replacing the timing chain kit on a 2.2 Vectra C I recently bought. Could you please share if I need to replace the balance chain set as well or I can just skip that? The car curently has around 155k miles/250k KM.
Christian Dikov I would do them both at the same time. Your already in there and you have to remove the timing chain to get to the balance chain.
I heard that: "put some hair around it". Your friend must not have known your mic picks up whispers. technology will get you everytime. lol
So true, and the funniest part is he is in his early 80s.
I just subscribed. Thank you for the video. We bought our 2007 Cobalt new from the dealer and have driven it for over 200,000 miles. How much would it cost to replace the timing chain? My mechanic thinks the water pump should also be replaced with a "kit". I am in Philadelphia. Can anyone out there provide some info? Thanks.
Yes do the kit including water pump. I did it myself all at once.
How Much would a shop charge for that on that little car
What kind of electric ratchet did you use?
Snap-On 1/4 drive. If you are looking to buy one go with a Milwaukee Fuel though.
i just did mine on pontiac g5
Would this all be the same for fwd manual? Also very good video along of good info and very helpful! Keep it up!
It's the same for all the 2.2 cars cobalts, cavaliers, ions, Saturn l200 and even the newer equinoxs with a 2.4
Those tensioners always come apart like that, it’s because there junk.
I like the music lol
Alguien sabe si aplica el mismo procedimiento para el cavalier 03 ecotec 2.2 ???
yes shood be same I think that you is Z22SE oré Ł61 ¿¿¿¿
I didn't hear a single word you said. Mics are important
you spelled moving wrong
honestly i think it would just be easier to pull the whole motor and do it outside the car.
Seriously get rid of the music while you’re fast fowarding it’s super annoying ! If you can please raise your volume up while your talking ! But other than that well detailed video !
Water pump and up date tensioner it has rounded head old has flat head use factory parts
Please fix your audio!
IS IT POSSIBLE TO JUST REPLACE GUIDES WITHOUT TAKING CHAINS OFF AND WORRY ABOUT TIMING ?
That is correct. You cannot remove the guides without removing the chain. If you are going to replace the guides you might as well replace the chain while your at it. It’s really not hard to time though.
What do you mean by, "A pin punch"??? I will be doing this in a gravel driveway that is all messed up from water flow eroding a deep groove on one side of the driveway & it is enclosed by 4x4's on one side & our house on the other! If it were up to me, The useless 4x4's would be gone! They use to hold up a carport which no longer exists so now, They only block us in! Useless! I only have a porter cable impact driver, no other automotive electronic tools, a 26 gall air compressor but, my air powered impact died. I do have a 3/8ths air powered wratchet but, i hardly use it because it does not have break away power! I will be using mainly hand tools. I purchased my air tools second hand, I believe it is a combo set that is sold at walmart but, I am not 100% sure, I am pretty sure its the exact set! Anyways, will I be able to break the crank bolt, & the two small gears loose with a breaker bar? I do have my porter cable impact/drill with 1/4" tip but, its weak link it the 1/2' Craftsman (supposedly impact) adaptor which allows me to attach a socket to it. So, I hope that I do not snap another adaptor trying! My questions to you are, Where do I put the number one piston to start with? at tdc? & Will I be able to break the bolts loose on the two small gears & the crank bolt with a breaker bar? Also, Does the timing cover house the oil pump? I also believe it to be important that the timing kit include a new gasket for the timing cover along with all of the torque to yield bolts for the crank, the 2 small gears, & the 2 camshaft gear bolts! On my 03 focus (zetec engine), I was on concrete & used the starter & wedged the breaker bar onto the ground & touched the key just momentarily to break the crank bolt loose when I did the timing belt on my focus but, on my Pontiac, I will be doing it in a uneven gravel driveway! In your video, You didn't film at least, using a screw driver or a wooden peg/stick to show where the piston is supposed to be when the timing marks line up. Should the number 1 piston be at top dead center???
The #1 piston should be at TDC On the exhaust stroke. I know that sounds weird, but that is what GM engineered in to these. A pin punch is just a round punch with a flat tip, they come in different tip sizes for getting in to holes and driving out roll pins and things like that.
The oil pump is built in to the timing cover, so yes definitely a good idea to put a new timing cover gasket on. You can do this with hand tools, but given the worksite conditions you describe it’s definitely not going to make it very easy. If you have a little money, check local pawn shops. I stop in from time to time because I have gotten some great deals on Snap-on, Matco, etc tools in like new condition.
You know the cam bolts are one time use and theres a thing called a torque wrench...Jesus impact on a 10mm into aluminum 😂
Cuánto se cobra por ese trabajo
The music ,really?
Wtf is the point of a timing chain if you have to change during the life of the engine? Just ridiculous
Good work. Extremely annoying music. At least turn the volume of the music down. I can't stress enough, the music is annoying. Yes, extremely annoying music. TURN THE DAMN'D MUSIC DOWN!!!!!!
Couldn't watch - kill the "music"!
That crank sprocket was in bad shape, I wouldn't have reused it.
The Music sucks
Thank you