Lessons from More Than a Century of Ketogenic Therapies - with Gary Taubes
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- Gary Taubes is an investigative science and health journalist. He is the author of many acclaimed books focusing on the ketogenic diet. Metabolic Mind Director Dr. Bret Scher interviewed Taubes at the 2023 8th Global Symposium on Ketogenic Therapies, and Taubes shared that the “case for keto” is simple- it puts many disease states into remission. A more complicated issue is the “stickiness problem”: Why, despite more than a century of history showing safety and, in many cases, efficacy, is ketogenic therapy still underutilized?
Taubes gives an overview of the long history of ketogenic therapy in diabetes and epilepsy. He posits that the field of psychiatry may be more receptive to ketogenic treatment due to widespread dissatisfaction with current stand-of-care drug therapies. Taube’s The Case for Keto is a fantastic resource for anyone exploring a ketogenic diet. Be sure to check out his latest book, Rethinking Diabetes.
Gary Taubes - garytaubes.com/
Twitter @garytaubes
Books to read by Gary Taubes:
The Case for Keto
www.amazon.com/gp/product/052...
Rethinking Diabetes
www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Dia...
About us:
Metabolic Mind™ is a nonprofit initiative incubated by Baszucki Group. Our mission is to provide education and resources in the emerging field of metabolic psychiatry, including ketogenic interventions for mental disorders.
Our channel is for informational purposes only. We are not providing individual or group medical or healthcare advice nor establishing a provider-patient relationship. Many of the interventions we discuss can have dramatic or potentially dangerous effects if done without proper supervision. Consult your healthcare provider before changing your lifestyle or medications.
Timestamps
0:00 Introduction
2:43 The history of ketogenic therapy
5:49 How insulin changed diabetes care
9:05 History of ketogenic therapy in diabetes care
15:54 Will a keto diet cause heart disease?
18:40 How a hypothesis impacts theories, research and interventions
22:38 Noise in research
28:10 How high-fat diets got blamed for heart disease in diabetes care
30:29 Applying history to the future of ketogenic therapy
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#BipolarDiet
My cardiologist recently spoke glowingly about the next generation of lipid controlling drugs that were going to be coming out, which would allow blood work to be as healthy as healthy can be. Be. I pointed out to him that if you could achieve the same thing through lifestyle that would probably be better. He said that he didn't see it as an either or, he would go ahead and prescribe drugs regardless.
His mindset simply was not trying to find the root cause of lipid imbalance, he was 100% focused on matching the drug with the condition. Very disappointing.
I'd find another cardiologist.
Maybe it's not lipid imbalance in the first place. Maybe it's the body behaving correctly given the circumstances. Change the circumstances, not the outcome of them.
Yes, no payoff on healthy eating, like drugs
Revenue generating activities.
Capitalism has ruined western medicine
I ate keto yesterday. This morning my blood sugar was 83. Keto works! My family hates me because I throw away the junk carbs they bring in the house. Time for me to move out .
I have been thinking this with my husband of 34years. He's the diabetic, but always tempting me with sweets, etc. It's so hard for me, I'm a sugar holic.
@@dessaarnold7540the company we keep can be our biggest obstacles to personal improvement. Smoking is like this. Easier to quit when you find yourself in a non-smoking environment. Far harder when the one beside you is lighting up and offering you the pack.
When I went keto, my partner of 15 years went keto with me. My partner is now low carb, but still supportive of the differences between our plates.
When my former partner of 16 years chose a new path that I could not follow, we parted ways.
All relationships require strategies for managing strong differences. All truly shared relationships work out these strategies because BOTH people are vested both in themselves AND the other.
If you can work it out, fabulous. A lot of families have one person with specific dietary requirements. It's ok though too that sometimes people find themselves choosing a new path.
Never lose sight of the fact that a decision to save yourself is NOT a betrayal of the person who won't get on the life raft with you.
❤
Run!!
The money I save by not eating sweets goes towards meat purchases so that makes it easier to quit sweets
I’m not a fan of keto, but Gary Taubes changed my diet 15 years ago when he wrote that cultures that eat a traditional diet don’t get western diseases until they begin importing sugar, flour, and seed oils.
I read "The Case for Keto" by Gary Taubes 3 years ago, and it changed my life. I used the info in the book to help kickstart my dietary changes in 2021. A few months later, I purchased a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) from Levels and wore it for over a year, working to keep my glucose as far down as possible. Starting out, I didn't have horrible glucose, my average was in the high 90's. Not great. After about 8 months with the CGM, I started eating the carnivore diet (mostly beef, butter, bacon, and eggs) and finally my glucose was exceptionally stable! After 18 months on carnivore, my labs are the best they've been, I have healed from several health issues I was having and I feel so good. Taubes is a brilliant journalist! His writing is engaging and informative. Investigative journalists make the best authors...Nina Teicholz, and John Carreyrou are up there too! Thank you for having him on Dr Scher, and thank you, Gary, for your life-changing writing!
Dismissing the people who tell us it's hard to stick to keto is not good science. Be curious and listen snd then you won't have to say, "I dont understand"!
There are social, emotional, and cultural reasons people have trouble changing dietary habits. Dr Chris Palmer didnt dismiss his patients when they struggled. He listened, and set up supports to make and maintain the change to keto. I admire his thoughtfulness immensely and they way he respects the people he works with.
Years ago I was tutoring a lady who'd walked for my help.
I do not dog anyone.
I'm not the food police.
They're big people Welty the choice to eat what is best for their disease or what they want. They do the eating, they'll reap the reward or pay the piper.
Just how I see it.
We were at a function and she's sitting across from me. She's eating every carb she can find. I'm eating the plate my wife had a professional keto chef prepare for me. It was her gift for me since it was a valentines occasion.
I said NOTHING to her about her choices. Not a single word.
She's downing me.
That plate cost $35!!!!????
It looks nasty
There's not enough there for me
Finally she slams her hands in the table and yells directly at me
I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU EAT THAT WAY!!!
YOU CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD!!!!!
Now
I was raised rough. I was ready to plow that nose for her.
Instead, I spoke evenly and calmly.
Define good.
She was taken aback and couldn't.
You define good
By taste
By who made
By what it's made from
I define good by
It feeds my body, not my disease.
It helps me stay meds free
It helps me reduce my complications risk
And it can be very tasty.
One definition is better and stronger than the other.
One of those two is wrong for people with our disease.
I excused myself and took my plate to the car and waited for my wife to come out. Cause I really did want to plow that nose of hers.
Several yrs on
She's went through the nightmare of gastric bypass surgery and is 'diabetes free' but still doesn't understand why she gets sick every time she has a milk shake or pasta.
While we need to not be dismissive, we've got to tell them the truth.
We can't dismiss them outright but we've got to remind them.
Diabetes is an issue that causes tragic outcomes.
Why would you not want to reduce those risks by putting your health first and society, culture, religious and personal food preference above that?????
Most of the things you mentioned are 'person' based. How is it acceptable that they mean eating foods that destroy the person? Why is it acceptable that choosing ONE'S HEALTH over those things means one is an outcast?
Back to the argument
Isn't one definition weaker than the other?
Isn't one more person centric than the other?
We mustn't be outright dismissive but neither must we not present them with logic that narrows the focus to what is truly most important- restoring and improving their health.
Great respect also to Sarah Hallberg who witnessed countless diabetic success stories on high fat diet. She did a great Ted talk on this.
I’m reading “Rethinking Diabetes “ Gary Taubes book now. So informative..plus I’m reading “Dianetes Solution “ by Dr Richard K Bernstein. So fascinating…great books..
Thanks guys! Every day I read of a little miracle that’s happened to someone on this diet. I hope to see it surface in the medical world!
Just finished reading Rethinking Diabetes. Excellent book! Closer in style to Good Calories Bad Calories than The Case for Keto, meaning it is best read in full student learning mode. Highly recommend! Thanks for the interview.
The book is so frustrating because in the early days they had this figured out! Then we lost our way, very very frustrating
Sad
Big pharma and sugar companies love diabetes. They have a lot of influence.
I bought the book Rethinking Diabetes after watching another Gary Taubes interview. It's a heavy but fascinating read.
I was diagnosed with diabetes type 2 in 2017, followed the "offically" recommended diet of eating 50% non starchy veg, 25% starchy foods and 25% protein.. It was clear that this diet drove high fasting blood sugars in my case (and I'd expect in nearly every other case). My doctor had given me a blood sugar meter and suggested I try to improve the level by diet bevause some of the meds were pretty nasty.
I'd also read about people taking a crash diet and putting diabetes into remission so I did the same - cut out all sugars and starches, ate a very low calorie diet for the next 3 months and watched my fasting blood sugar drop to the normal range in just a couple of months.
On reading the book I was stunned at the way the medical profession constantly rejected any attempt to adopt a healthy diet to at least minimse the amount of medication needed. Natural caution and common sense suggest the best way is to minimise the need for medication to have as natural an approach as possible and avoid unforeseeable problems from having high levels of a brand new, artificially produced hormone but the mindset they pushed was "Eat whatever yiu want and take as much insulin as needed to control your blood sugars" With the resulting complications of inability to calibrate followed by all the negative consequences.
This must have resulted in millions of premature deaths and impaired lives.
Taubes' perspective always enlightening. thanks
Keto did wonders for me. I spent way too much time on 'cheats' and threw in the towel going Carnivore. At 60, never felt better!
how long have u been carnivore ? what r your favourite doctors / channels ??
@@Amanda_downunder I've only been C since 11/4/23. Chafffee, Bikman, Berry and Mason are my 4 favorite. I'm amazed how quickly the benefits have shown up!
I changed my mindset about food and put all of the big food/pharma companies in the same bucket as tobacco and alcohol. Execs and their profit driven minnions profit from other's miseries. And like our goofy politicians, we sit back and seemingly support them.
so true. thanks for replying. @@dahof2789
Yes. I moved from low carb to carnivore. I’ve been low carb (I don’t call it keto, since I can’t generate ketones until nearly zero grams per day) for 15 years. I can tell when I am in ketosis without the finger prick. I feel buzzy and warm in my core.
@@jamesdellaneve9005 Amazing and cool. Since cleaning up my system, I learned that I have a rather ugly soy alergy. I ate a steak from TX Roadhouse that is apparently treated with soy oil. 3 symptoms that I've worried about for years came roaring back after the steak. All 3 are classic soy alergy reactions. Without C, I would still be dealing with them.
People are skeptical of new treatments, unless that treatment is a pharmaceutical. Look at Ozempic and its counterparts.
Occam' razor... It's just easier.
Thank you.
Thank you
It's definitely weird that so many people single keto out as being difficult to comply with. Obviously there's some selection and survivor bias among people following this channel, but established habits can be easy to maintain.
Gary Taubes is a great man!
❤❤❤Thanks!!
Excellent
The study of energy balance includes measuring basal metabolic rate, which is in part a reflection of the hormonal response to dietary composition.
Is there a link to his talk? Thanks.
He look so much better. Lean Mean in HS wrestling physic. I think he has been doing weight resistance secret of aging in reverse. Just guessing but let us know?
My child is a med student currently doing psychiatry clinicals. He says marijuana is horrible, it makes everyone worse and there is a big link between it and schizophrenia and bipolar. Why on earth are we legalizing this????
Keep them sick, dumb and poor and they can be controlled. It's no mystery and is not at all complicated.
Same reason alcohol is legal.
Money money money!
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Because of a combination of bad science and profit motive, we live in a carbohydrate culture. Ordering a bunless burger and the lettuce, tomato, and pickle is just "weird." But, you might not be full at the end. The bun and the fries do fill us up. $o, you might need to order another burger. Eating and paying for keto out is harder than at home or brown bagging.
I only eat 2 meals a day and can usually do it at home. Traveling, I shoot for a room with fridge+stove. Otherwise I tend to stick to meat and eggs for breakfast and burger/steak/fish/lamb for second meal. Meals out are absurdly more expensive, and never as fresh/clean as home, but it is still far, far cheaper than clinical care. And in the US, at least, that's no empty rationalization! Ha!
In terms of oddball requests, I never make special orders. They put it together their way. I eat it my way. I even save a life by pitching the rest in the bin. It's a token contribution to public health. 😅
Why do we ignore this even though its been around so long? Hubris. We think we know better than those old timers 😡. Not helped by vested interest
Big pharma and sugar companies have a lot of money and influence.
Back then: more physical activity, more family bonds, more naturally grown food. Now: more sitting, less athentic, personal connection, mostly industrial produced food covered with pesticides without nutrition. The missing piece between now and then is the great recession and all the trauma caused.
Democratize//crowdsource for data...give out CGMs to 5000 subjects with the agreement that all of their nutrition and blood glucose data gets uploaded to the study. Collect data for years rather than weeks or months. With AI, we should be close to being able to take a photo of meal ingredients and have instant data about calories, carbs, proteins, fats, nutrients.
😃
I remember Jan Ellison wrote wonderful comments about a Gary Taubes book, and I was intrigued to learn about his work.
I can't wait to watch Taubes and Dr. Scher discuss the efficacy and power of a well-formulated ketogenic diet. It's amazing that the ketogenic diet has been used for over a century, and how it has often provided significantly positive, life-changing results.
I thank God every day that I'm able to use a vegan ketogenic diet to alleviate my bipolar disorder and perimenopause symptoms. This lifestyle made it possible for me to lose 50 pounds I didn't need, and maintain a healthy weight over the past year.
How? I used a cgm and gave up on vegan. The carbs were killing me. I cannot live on lettuce.
@@iss8504 I'm impressed you used a cgm! I encourage you to check out Virta Health's "How to eat Vegan-Vegetarian/Low Carb," Dr. Dominic D'Agostino's blog Keto Nutrition's A Plant-Based Approach to Keto" and the International Bipolar Foundation's "My Life-Changing Vegan Ketogenic Diet for Bipolar Disorder."
Liz MacDowell's "Vegan Keto" book, Whitney Lauritsen and Nicole Dersewah's "The Vegan Ketogenic Diet" and the Carb Manager app have great recipes. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you before, and it know it can be tough; maybe you could give it another try?
@iss8504
Nuts seeds avocado olives coconut oil
@@emh8861 Yes, those are all staples for me - thank you for mentioning them! (I enjoy unsweetened almond butter & the lower carb nuts.) I love using high-quality MCT oil; it's an investment, but it's worth it in terms of its ketogenic boost.
I also have soaked black chia seeds & vegan SunWarrior protein powder in a daily smoothie with almond milk + a little blue spirulina powder as the taste is amazing. The better quality protein powders do contain amino acids. And don't forget vitamin b12 (essential for vegans) and vegan omega 3's. The U.K. Vegan Society has great resources on its website
Thank you for sharing your approach. I find that both the keto community and the vegan community, in general, view keto and vegan as somehow opposing nutritional paradigms. They are not.
Keto is about macro proportions.
Vegan is about food source.
I see fireman at house fires all the time!
Can the ketogenic diet reverse diabetes if the patient doesn’t lose weight?
It is definitely possible. Here is a case series of 3 patients showing the possibility. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8273233/
@@metabolicmind All three of those patients lost weight, according to the article.
The weight loss seen is under the amount generally regarded as needed for substantial health improvements. Here is another article on reversing metabolic syndrome without weight loss. insight.jci.org/articles/view/128308 In a sense, a ketogenic diet is its own enemy for answering this question, as it usually comes with substantial weight loss.
The term "ketogenic" simply means the normal state of being a human pertaining to their physiology and the use of fat in the body. To say this "works" is quite insane.
Keto is a diet with mental health benefits, in some cases. Is there an optimal, universal diet ? Probably not. But Keto is worth a try. What is there to lose ? My story is what , before the internet, was called a testimonial. I'm 77, energetic and have a positive outlook . The choice is yours. You are in control - not a pill-prescribing doctor who will never care or share your pain.
I believe what he saying, but fat and I do not get along. Fat and spices give me loose bowels. I have to watch both. I know what triggers my system. I suppose it’s because I have no gallbladder but I’m not sure about the spices. I just know whenever I add them to my food I’m going to have problems. People need to pay attention to have food is affecting their body and they don’t do that. They don’t correlate eating and reaction.
I have the same problem even with a gallbladder
I get acute diarreah by removing carbs and just eating protein and fat
You need to adjust to fat. Slowly increase the amount and make sure to build your stomach acid, bile salts help. Loose stools are common when people transition to a carnivore diet until the body adapts.
You can get fats from other foods that are better for your digestive system. Avocado, olives, eggs, nuts, cream, cheese. I had my gallbladder removed and eat these foods with no problem.
Gary is brilliant. However, as soon as he says “it’s not that hard”, he is making a fundamental mistake. Toasted bagel with butter never again vs a glob of butter -- come on.
Low carb = weight loss and sugar control, but it’s not for everyone, especially those with neurological and auto immune disorders like MS. Meat and saturated fat is pro inflammatory.
Wrong. Meat and saturated fat REDUCE inflammation and can make incredible improvements to people with neurological (look up Dr Georgia Ede) and autoimmune disorders (read the posts under the videos of every carnivore influencer).
Investigate the carnivore diet further. Many with those diseases have been put into remissions.
😂 show the peer reviewed data please
@@cynthiam1381 piss off
You have that totally reversed. Carbs are inflammatory, meat and fat is not.
The anecdotal evidence of remission of auto immune issues while eating keto/carnivore is overwhelming.
Unfortunately the science is missing and diet/health/weight loss is reduced to religious belief.
Educated and learned doctors have conducted research and studies and have treated patients - all with excellent results - on dietary regimes which are polar opposites.
MdDougall / vegan lifestyle
Klempner / rice and sugar diet
They stand in opposition to the keto/carnivore lifestyle.
Sadly it appears that a professional study that compares these camps will never be done