Man this hits hard, and I see the same in my daily life. No one wants to hang out anymore ESPECIALLY once married with kids. I’m guilty of this too, but I’d like to say it’s not only our smart phones to blame, but also the sheer volume of work we’ve had to take on from 50 years ago that I think attributes to it as well
It is because we have less free time. We used to have high enough wages one person could work full time and support a family. Now both are working, still have as much housework and childcare but less family support due to them all working too. We work more than ever for less money. Childcare isn’t the issue, poor wages are.
@KnitzyKitzy single mother here. My daughter and I feel the lack of time. Lately, between my job and online classes, her school and extracurricular activities we start the day at 5am and it doesn't end until between 10-11 pm.
Don’t have kids. People who have chosen to have kids, have chosen where the majority of their time and focus goes. Unless your life is in danger for not having kids, just don’t have kids. How is this a problem?
THIS THIS THIS. Im 48. LIving in nyc in the 90s was amazing. I’d walk down the street and immediately run into people I knew, friends and acquaintances. This is like a dystopia.
@@macnaviNO it is Mr Fascist Librarian Logic Nerd, because HIS experience within ONE lifetime is what he described became this. We used to have block parties all the time with the other kids. I dont see that anymore. Everyone is too poor.
Professor Putnam's points remind me of a program I saw back in 2019 that spoke about how because humans evolved as social creatures, a long-term lack of socialization makes our subconscious think something is seriously wrong; which could potentially lead to adverse health conditions both physical and mental. It suggested that by something as simple as making time once a month to pursue a social activity one could spark an increase in overall health. If this theory were applied on a macro level, it really does seem like it might explain some of the frankly bizarre extremism that's lead us to this point. Just food for thought.
@@neutronbomb1000 I had to do some digging. It was a Japanese program called "Gatten!" that focused on overall health from a scientific perspective. The episode I watched originally aired in Japan in 2018 and was broadcast internationally on NHK World in 2019, focusing on secrets for health in old age.
Said when we lost the front porches on our houses, we lost community in our neighborhoods. I believe it! When you sit on your front porch, those walking by stop to chat. When no one is out there, people just keep walking by.
Our greatest challenges is that we all tend to put our heads on one basket, unemployment and the rule of change has been on a high rate and we first timers face in the market is that we end up losing all we have,making it difficult to find ourselves back to our feet. My biggest advice is to always seek the services of a professional just like I did when I ventured into it for the first time. I now make huge profits by weekly through her services while still learning to stand on my own. Big thanks to Coach Hilder
I have never seen a trader as open and transparent as Coach Hilder with her clients. The way she decides to make a profit for her clients. she allows you to express your fears and she still rests your fears and that is my respect. I don't normally comment on videos, but this word should be included. she is really cool.
They're mistaking correlation for causation. Material conditions are what drive behavior. When people are overworked, overstressed, forced to choose between poorly made apartments or single family homes, forced to choose between public transit designed to fail vs having a car, etc it creates an environmental where people don't have the time, energy, or opportunities to connect with their neighbours to create bonds that in turn create communities.
@@brianc5617 It doesn’t get brought up in the interview but one of the main points in Bowling Alone is that many non-profit advocacy organizations since the 70s have shifted their focus from social capital (ie building a network and affinity groups willing to do the work) to financial capital (donations and relying on paid staff to do the work or focus on lobbying) & this has led to a disconnect. I know it is anecdotal, it has been more than once when I did not have money to offer but could offer time or other resources only to have an advocacy org say “Thanks, but no thanks.” There is more in Bowling Alone that covers aspects of what you are talking about that this brief interview does not get into.
It’s time to remember that democracy is about uniting communities, not fueling hate. America stands strong and has not been defeated! - “Democracy is not just the right to vote; it is the right to live in dignity.”
The Oligarchy defeated the democracy decades ago. The working class decimated by Reagan and the Repugnant Party. Education dismantled over time via no civics . Fairness Doctrine eliminated so Rush Limbaugh, Fox Propaganda News,etc. All paved the way for Trump and the Billionaires Dictatorship.
I can see Jordan Klepper as the true heir to Jon Stewart on TDS. And probably in wider political journalism. He is the most serious interviewer after Jon and one can see how committed to politics he is.
Thank you! Probably the two most influential books on me are Bowling Alone and the Lonely American, the latter of which was written in reaction to and skeptical of Bowling Alone but their research ended up further validating what Professor Putnam wrote.
Lovely interview ❤ I’m glad I watched this. As someone trying to figure out how to tolerate talking to conservatives, I think starting on something other than politics is brilliant advice. 😅
Or just don't. You don't need to socialise with terrible people. In fact, you only give them a pass to be terrible people and not have social consequences.
@ some conservatives are terrible people. Many of the ones in power certainly are. But many of the citizens that vote conservatively have just grown up around conservative people or been fed conservative propaganda. That doesn’t make them terrible, it makes them indoctrinated. Humans are valuable, I don’t want to throw away or discount people just for being naive or impressionable or deeply misinformed. If they only exist around other conservatives, they certainly will not face any social consequences.
So yes, there are some extremism on both sides, and we know that trump voters have been infiltrated by some very hatefilled white nationalist groups along with conspiracies but before my list gets too long I will just say not everyone who voted for trump is that way. A lot of them have been unknowingly duped with his promises and false information and the only thing I feel for them is sadness that it could happen. I understand it they think he is going to help them, that he actually is trying to keep our country safe, and that they can trust him because he's not the typical life long "corrupt" politician and he must be different because he wants to clear out all the untrustworthy people in government that have done them wrong. He's given them a false dream and if I wasn't skeptical by nature maybe I'd even believe he would make America great. We have to have some compassion for people like that and show them kindness and when they see all the hate on their side and the kindness from the other hopefully it will hit them.
I have a coworker who is pro trump but I'm a full blue party voter. I'm one of the only people at work he has full conversations with we both agree everything is a mess and that's what we find important we just disagree and joke with each other about how to fix it. That's what i miss from politics a decade ago the ability to just disagree and still be friends
My very extroverted brother was recently venting his frustration around the lack of community in the US. We need more people like Robert to help us introverts understand how devastating this can be to the lives of those we care about, and how that can spill over into government ideals.
What a delightful human. I suggest volunteering is a near panacea for the problem at hand. To some extent the type of activity or situation in which one volunteers will be a factor in whom you may be rubbing shoulders with when volunteering. A library, will be different than a 4-H event, which is different than a hospice organization, which is different than an animal shelter. Ultimately, the town council scenario described in the video will probably be closer to the norm than we might expect.
Read his books for my poli-sci class. They are classics. Still remember his book on political reform in Italy and political culture. Hope today's students are still requested to read them.
I love that the Daily Show does serious interviews even though it's a comedy show, but can we get the regular news media to do more of this too? Comedy shows shouldn't be our main source of news.
All of our free spaces have been taken away, there's nowhere to go that doesn't require money. If you don't spend money, you're loitering. People used to hang out at the park or go for walks, kids could play outside together without having to worry about being messy or loud (or getting hit by a car unless they were in a bigger city lol). Or the things that did require money weren't so ridiculously expensive, you could go hang out at the mall and get a slice of pizza then wander around or watch a movie and it wouldn't bankrupt you. There's nowhere to go now, it's all parking lots and stores and highways with little bits of green snuck in-between.
@@sprybug What do you mean "wait until" lol they've been happening the whole time and we've been fighting them with various degrees of success. They might kick it up a notch in the next 4 years, but it's definitely not new.
I don’t know how I feel about this. Trump and his MAGA crowd is a big part of why I have isolated myself. I hate Trump and his ilk I live in a blue state but a red county. I’ve just dug in and kept to myself. I’m a Gold Star mom. I only go out to participate in our events and to support veterans events. And occasionally see friends. But no amount of isolation/loneliness would make me support the orange felon.
Your comment brings tears to my eyes, and not only am I not a blue star mom, or even a woman, and the last living relative who was in the military (Korean war) that i had was my dad who died in 2007. Well I’m not sure where I was going with that but I appreciate you and the conversation makes me sad. But I think I can sympathize, even if I can’t empathize.
Same here. I understand what he's saying. Yes, it will help, but there are a lot more going on than just what he's saying. I look at myself for example. I'm on the spectrum, which instantly makes me a social outcast and difficult to be able to feel comfortable in groups of people. I've made efforts though. I've tried to be more social, reach out, be a part of something, sure it initially works, but then things happen in your life that make you have to change things in your life and no longer part of the group. Like when I went back to school and changed my career. I had to drop so much to do that. I was in a band and I played baseball. I moved for my schooling and I had to drop all that. Then when I went back to work, my focus was on my career and then I started to see the ugliness happen slowly around me and it made me want to feel more isolated and now I rarely leave my apartment and have basically lost all faith in humanity at this point.
I'm a semi-retired high school teacher who bought a house on 2009, lost it in '19 and am rebuilding in a better place with a new community, actually several at this point and a renewed connection to college friends 3-4 decades past.This morning I asked myself a question: Where did all my high school classmates and former students who didn't go to even community college or the military find themselves 10 years later? Then tonight's guest's topics. Thanks.
Oh man - I have been going against the introverted grain here in Seattle for YEARS, on purpose - because of Bowling Alone! Thank you Bob! What a sweet man too.
Yes, I love this guy. This last week, I have come to terms with something. The difference between us is, we do not want to be enemies. And The *enemy* is truly, within. *That guy can talk you into anything.*
Very informative. Gotta watch Ride Or Die, and although I don’t read much or well because of my severe ADD, I’m very interested in Putnam‘s book Bowling Alone. He seems to be a fascinating professor/author. He really makes a lot of sense especially in retrospect.
How do we build bridging social capital while also protecting minority groups that are being targeted? I'm not interested in bridging if it means me and my friends will still be attacked.
Great conversation. Important feature of a healthy life; connection, and finding ways to connect with a variety of people, not just one kind or race or tribe.,
To those wondering, he explains this concept much more clearly in his books. I feel like he’s someone who is better at communicating with the help of charts. I’m currently reading his book “The Upswing” which is about how we went through another really divisive time in American history during the Guilded Age and how we came out of that with stronger social ties and better economic opportunities for more people up until the past few decades where we’ve cycled back to heightened individualism.
The part where Mr. Putnam says that people with no college degrees are more likely to have even less friends. Is this because of the amount of time they have to put into work and overtime and commuting that they don’t have the time or money to make friends or is there something more involved?
I assume it is also the type of work they do. Sat at a checkout or working on a line on your own can't be much fun. Corporations treat their employees like dirt these days, so the camaraderie that used to surround factories has been deliberately cut. Can't have people TALKING. They might form a union! And the they have to get into their cars and drive along their long, lonely streets.
I think it's because college is 3--4 years of nothing but both bridging social capital and bonding social capital, that lasts a lifetime even if you don't stay in contact with all those friends. I'm autistic, introverted and socially awkward but my University years were the most social I have ever been in my life. I met and made friends with people from all over the world. I shared dorms with a Muslim guy from Jordan, a very shy guy from Malaysia as well as two local girls who only lived a few hours away. (Yes, co-ed dorms, separate bedrooms, shared kitchen and living room.) We all shared our food and cultures with each other. These experiences were invaluable not only to learning to making friends in the future, but interacting with people from a diverse range of backgrounds gave me a perspective on the world that is far more broad and open minded than it would have been had I not gone to University. This has stuck with me for life, even though I now work from home and get very little social interaction day to day.
@Sirlancegeo, I think there's also a tendency towards being exclusive that each group has but probably the educated to a slightly higher degree. They're not trying to mix with the working class or help the working-class move up in status. Plus with every sector dealing with a shrinking pool of jobs, everyone's a potential competitor for the remaining jobs...🤷🏽♀️
Recreate dense cities and heavily invest in public transit to make people be around others and create connections more often than just a few events every few months.
I think people have to consciously put in the effort, though. I live in a city and coach a sport for adults. I've also played in a league with far less time commitment and that costs a fraction of the competitive sport. Both struggle for numbers compared to two generations ago, and that's with the city having nearly twice the population. Even when active, people are more likely to do something alone on their own time (run, gym) than something scheduled with a group.
@@Nieghorn I mean sports for adults is really niche considering those who regularly do it are either professional which is extremely small or were athletes in high school, also small. Also high population isn't the same as density. But still being forced to be around people has a better chance to build a community than not. Remember being around so many people in school? It was great.
I cited Bowling Alone a whole bunch in big presentation I did for an anthropology course I had around 2011, mainly focused on anomie, the term he used for the way this disconnectedness manifests in an individual. Didn't realize Putnam was so jolly! Really cool that he was on the show, as I keep saying that all kinds of anthro/socio/psych/etc concepts are really things that everyone in society should know. Of course that would make people less easy to manipulate, and the GOP can't have that, so they try and poison words or ideas (woke, CRT) and in time this leads to anti-intellectualism all over.
He said this isolation began 50 years ago so the mid 70s. Having grown up in that time, we had a lot of community. We went to concerts, went dancing, went to parties, played sports, etc. We knew our neighbors. But a lot of that was taken away. Concerts are crazy expensive, dancing went out the window, sports are only played in school, school got VERY strict and crazy; they took the doors off the bathroom so no one would dare smoke. They barely let the kids go outside unsupervised. We didn't have any mass shootings. I think all of this was deliberate; they are breaking up our communities so they can divide us. Divide and conquer us. Who you ask? The wealthy and powerful who want to take over our democracy and make money off of every little thing we do. Yes, we need community. We need free concerts in the parks, poetry readings, places to dance instead of exercising in a boring gym, cafes, music, art, poetry readings, festivals everywhere. That is what brings people out and where community can be restarted. No politics nor religion needed. Every town should have a fair every single weekend in their local park. I drive by so many empty parks. Use them!
@@emantabrizi8218 When the average rent for a one-bedroom apartment is $1800 a month pre-utilities. Add in electricity, gas, internet, cell phone, in many cases now water - then if you have a car, insurance, gas, maintenance. Mayyybe, a hundred bucks in your 401k. Finally, groceries prices inflated by monopolization of producers and grocer chains... it doesn't leave much money left over. Like Bernie has been saying repeatedly of late, 60% of workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
The thing not mentioned here is that it greatly benefits the capitalist class for poor, working class americans to not have friends, to not trust one another, and to ultimately be divided. It benefits these moneybags because employees who dont know one another cannot or at least will not unionize, will not work together for better working conditions, and so on. Thats why social media is such a lucrative business for these people. Not because of the ad revenue, tho im sure that doesnt hurt, but actually because it keeps us distracted, spoon fed propaganda, and being friends with someone in another country is better for them than you being friends with your coworker who might help you unionize.
As someone who has an increasingly strong "us vs them" mentality, this really resonated. I'm going to make efforts to connect with those I disagree with politically.
I would love to start a group for lonely people because I know being around other people can help with depression. However, I’m too depressed to do it. Not due to politics, been in therapy for years. 💔
THIS THIS! My *HERO* growing up was my lifelong Republican grandfather who raised me. He was a cop. I am one of those "crazy lefties" who wants everyone to have healthcare and people not to get shot and stuff and this is where I come from not because I have *departed* from the values of the small-town rural south but because I *FOLLOW* them. Rural people in this country used to be fundamentally COMMUNAL, before neoliberalism isolated everyone and now these sad sack little boys who claim to be "tradtionalists" or whatever don't even know what it means, alone in front of their computers beating off, not even knowing their neighbors' names, not being able to walk anywhere after school, everyone atomized and divided for easy exploitation. This is the enemy that we should *SHARE* with maga to earn the trust of some voters and bring some of these young men back to the light and help them heal that pain and loneliness that they feel but don't understand because they have never even known true family or community bonds.
Yessssss! Agreed. I live in a city, take the bus, go to university, work with the public at a zoo- I'm constantly interacting with people different from me. But we can bond over our shared love of animals, studying art, and you could even say the shared misery of waiting for the bus in the cold. That bridging social capital comes from even just walking on the street with other people, sharing space. I see MAGA say cities are scary and dangerous, school is indoctrinating and dangerous. That this diverse, more challenging social connection is too hard - we need a nice simple ideology to all rally behind, to truly unite America and form community. And I can see how that is very important to people, especially to lonely people, because community is SO important.
@@maedesmond2461 The rural problem is isolation, which morphs into ignorance and voting against things they know nothing about and doesn't affect them.
I'm 50/50 on this. And its funny I'm watching this extraordinarily fun Daily Show sit-down now because I just met with an old colleague for drinks. Despite being a Trump voter he has helped me big time before the pandemic with a job and letting me keep the work van for personal use. We also agree on things mostly, and I'm not a Trumper. At the same time he voted along with 75 million people to potentially get Medicare and Social Security gutted.
I suppose we should at least hold in the philosophy that Mr. Putnam has expressed and shared, but with caution. Because we are so familiar with thousands of Trumpers in person and online tirelessly parroting the same cliche right wing talking points.
What happened 50 years ago? By the 1970's car-centric suburbia had fully taken over America. It's easy to never meet your neighbors if you never walk by their house, and there are no common places where you spontaneously run into the same people like the nearby park or bakery.
A reason, veterans were encouraged to move to prefab housing to work in the factories for the corporations. They did not return to their home communities which would have been next generation leaders. These farming communities may have failed. We were raised by war traumatized men, who were robots in the factories. No wonder we are alienated from our neighbors, it has become the “normal.” 🐝
There is still community- it may be harder to find or maintain, but it is there. Schools, sports, churches, parks, work... it takes effort, that's for sure.
According to this, I should have statistically been a prime target for the rights messaging. I think it's more than the loneliness/isolation but the intentional undermining and failure of the educational system, creating their target audience. Look to how the churches taught in Latin (or read hieroglyphs), and hoarded education and books behind clerical walls. The cruelty, is that dissociation of responsibility "God's will", you must have done something to deserve your fate (only when i need a victim of my 'groups' hate). I talk to almost everyone, but some of those red hats are angry, even in victory. The hostility radiates off of some. Great show. #knitter 😉
"Now the music divides us into tribes You grew your hair So I grew mine You said the past won't rest Until we jump the fence and leave it behind But you started a war That we can't win They keep erasing all the streets we grew up in Now the music divides us into tribes You choose your side I'll choose my side" -Arcade Fire "Suburban War"
I’m a boomer. We were raised to be a housewife/mom, but when our time came we were suddenly required to be the second-job person in the household, put our kids in daycare or have latch-key kids. Men were not yet expected to pick up “women’s work”, so we brought home the bacon and fried it up as they say. And you want us to have Tupperware parties and be on the PTA. We tried, we really did.
I'm hearing a lot about HOW these things get bad, not WHY, probably because it's obvious: economic disparity breeds contempt for your fellow man. The wider the income gap, the more you grow to distrust those below and above you. We can't fix that with a bowling league, a block party, etc. We need elected leaders who will help alleviate the problem.
It feels like the marketing machine, the machine for selling people on constant consumerism probably plays a very big role. Turning Americans into consumers means selling more widgets. Buy this car to be better than your neighbors, or to even intimidate your neighbors. This car is big and dangerous.
Internet has a lot to answer for. David Bowie mentioned in an interview in 1997...that we were on a verge of a very exciting but equally terrifying change.... IE WWW How right he was
This is true, but we need to go deeper... What drove these people to loneliness? What took away our time we used to spend together? Also, what replaced those old ways and habits?
Best trick or treating was at the nursing home of a small town. Stores bought the candy and children costumes were judged. Such delightful joy on the patients faces (many who had no other visitors) was priceless memories!
Great convo, I’m just confused why people without education will end up with no friends? Is it just that uni makes you socialise with lots to different people and be open to experiences?
I was a very social person until around the spring of 2020 when a little thing like the COVID 19 pandemic not only brought the world to it's knees in multiple ways, including a shutdown of non-essential businesses that are more for socializing, like bars and restaurants. Also I live in a red state where the conversations in the bars had become about what you aren't supposed to discuss while consuming adult beverages. Politics, religion and now a whole new list of grievances that they have never experienced or had their lives affected by whatever is woke that day. Plus they have become incredibly hard to have an intelligent conversation with anyone MAGA these days.
It's an interesting theory, but I noticed he didn't say whether he admitted to his neighbor that he was a Democrat, which could have immediately resulted in the other person becoming a real and physical threat.
Two BRILLIANT humans having a fantastic discussion. Thank You, Kelpper AND Thank You, Robert Putnam!
Well said. Likely the most productive of theirs in quite a while.
Man this hits hard, and I see the same in my daily life. No one wants to hang out anymore ESPECIALLY once married with kids. I’m guilty of this too, but I’d like to say it’s not only our smart phones to blame, but also the sheer volume of work we’ve had to take on from 50 years ago that I think attributes to it as well
It is because we have less free time. We used to have high enough wages one person could work full time and support a family. Now both are working, still have as much housework and childcare but less family support due to them all working too. We work more than ever for less money. Childcare isn’t the issue, poor wages are.
@KnitzyKitzy single mother here. My daughter and I feel the lack of time. Lately, between my job and online classes, her school and extracurricular activities we start the day at 5am and it doesn't end until between 10-11 pm.
Why are people so broken though I dont get it
this is a reason I love living in cities so much!!
Don’t have kids. People who have chosen to have kids, have chosen where the majority of their time and focus goes. Unless your life is in danger for not having kids, just don’t have kids. How is this a problem?
Im the 80s even as a kid, I knew almost all my neighbors on the entire street. Every house. Now as an adult I know one neighbor.
RIP Mr. Rodgers
That’s not a fair comparison. You have to ask children now how many children they know in their street.
Who’s “Mr. Rodgers”? Did you mean , “Mr. Rogers”?
THIS THIS THIS. Im 48. LIving in nyc in the 90s was amazing. I’d walk down the street and immediately run into people I knew, friends and acquaintances. This is like a dystopia.
EXTROVERTS UNITE AGAINST SOCIAL MEDIA Lol
@@macnaviNO it is Mr Fascist Librarian Logic Nerd, because HIS experience within ONE lifetime is what he described became this. We used to have block parties all the time with the other kids. I dont see that anymore. Everyone is too poor.
I love the fact you guys platformed Robert Putnam!!
me too - best guest YET
When I was young the doorbell ringing was awesome....
...and the phone on the wall ringing. Was it my Grandma? Was it my Aunt?
It was. It was friends, relatives, even door to door salesmen.
and the burning paper bag of dog poo after ringing the bell. oooh sorry not that kind ?
Man, I love this show. The hosts, the guests, the humor, the topics. Just fantastic 👏
Professor Putnam's points remind me of a program I saw back in 2019 that spoke about how because humans evolved as social creatures, a long-term lack of socialization makes our subconscious think something is seriously wrong; which could potentially lead to adverse health conditions both physical and mental. It suggested that by something as simple as making time once a month to pursue a social activity one could spark an increase in overall health. If this theory were applied on a macro level, it really does seem like it might explain some of the frankly bizarre extremism that's lead us to this point. Just food for thought.
That can explain the rise in conspiracy theories too, if I understand correctly
Do you recall the name of the program, please?
The thing is, something *is* seriously wrong. Our bodies and brains know it.
@@neutronbomb1000 I had to do some digging. It was a Japanese program called "Gatten!" that focused on overall health from a scientific perspective. The episode I watched originally aired in Japan in 2018 and was broadcast internationally on NHK World in 2019, focusing on secrets for health in old age.
@@Nagato_Morito Thanks so much 🙂
Said when we lost the front porches on our houses, we lost community in our neighborhoods. I believe it! When you sit on your front porch, those walking by stop to chat. When no one is out there, people just keep walking by.
Our greatest challenges is that we all tend to put our heads on one basket, unemployment and the rule of change has been on a high rate and we first timers face in the market is that we end up losing all we have,making it difficult to find ourselves back to our feet. My biggest advice is to always seek the services of a professional just like I did when I ventured into it for the first time. I now make huge profits by weekly through her services while still learning to stand on my own. Big thanks to Coach Hilder
I have never seen a trader as open and transparent as Coach Hilder with her clients. The way she decides to make a profit for her clients. she allows you to express your fears and she still rests your fears and that is my respect. I don't normally comment on videos, but this word should be included. she is really cool.
Coach Hilder is definitely the best so far. she always surprises me with amazing results.. We also plan to surprise her. You must have heard of it.
I just looked up her name online. she is licensed with credible certificates and has an amazing track record.
It's amazing that you all got to know her. she has been a blessing in the crypto space.
We slacked because we had to work 2 jobs. Remember when corporations paid 78% tax? Thanks RR.
How many people had lost their jobs because of him I remember hundreds of thousands of people lost their jobs
Don't leave out NIMBYs and how they've driven the housing market to where it is today.
You bring back a tax rate that high and EVERYTHING gets sent over to China.
Profit over people, the exploitation of Americans by the capitalist class.
@stevepasquarella823 not much left to send over ..🫤
Jordan has been knocking it outta park 😂 great interview and just the right balance of seriousness and comedy 🎭😍😍😍
oh i have to find that vid...
They're mistaking correlation for causation. Material conditions are what drive behavior. When people are overworked, overstressed, forced to choose between poorly made apartments or single family homes, forced to choose between public transit designed to fail vs having a car, etc it creates an environmental where people don't have the time, energy, or opportunities to connect with their neighbours to create bonds that in turn create communities.
Seriously. It's called neoliberal capitalism.
Agree with that.
Hold up, wordsmith. You are just typing because you like to read your own words.
No, I see the logic but it’s wrong, go touch grass and make a friend.
@@brianc5617 It doesn’t get brought up in the interview but one of the main points in Bowling Alone is that many non-profit advocacy organizations since the 70s have shifted their focus from social capital (ie building a network and affinity groups willing to do the work) to financial capital (donations and relying on paid staff to do the work or focus on lobbying) & this has led to a disconnect. I know it is anecdotal, it has been more than once when I did not have money to offer but could offer time or other resources only to have an advocacy org say “Thanks, but no thanks.” There is more in Bowling Alone that covers aspects of what you are talking about that this brief interview does not get into.
It’s time to remember that democracy is about uniting communities, not fueling hate. America stands strong and has not been defeated! - “Democracy is not just the right to vote; it is the right to live in dignity.”
Trump has united communities. He's just United them against you.
Yea and the democrats caused all this nonsense lol
The Oligarchy defeated the democracy decades ago. The working class decimated by Reagan and the Repugnant Party. Education dismantled over time via no civics . Fairness Doctrine eliminated so Rush Limbaugh, Fox Propaganda News,etc. All paved the way for Trump and the Billionaires Dictatorship.
Rah rah... America has turned away from we the people and to show me the money
This man is amazing. I will definitely check out the documentary.
I've been saying the same thing for years! It is just common sense
I can see Jordan Klepper as the true heir to Jon Stewart on TDS. And probably in wider political journalism. He is the most serious interviewer after Jon and one can see how committed to politics he is.
he is only missing the eternal 'innocence' of Jon's delivery. that's where Desi has him
Love Klepper to take over. Have boycotted Stewart. Platform use to make the despair worse.
@lynnd. Oh come on.
@@samarthjain She's correct.
Klepper rules! I am SO sick of Jon Stewart being smug and arrogant. His time has passed.
Thank you! Probably the two most influential books on me are Bowling Alone and the Lonely American, the latter of which was written in reaction to and skeptical of Bowling Alone but their research ended up further validating what Professor Putnam wrote.
Wow, that's really interesting! On what points were they skeptical? What conclusions did they reach?
Thank you both for an enlightening show. I'll share it with my neighbour.
That was an excellent interview!
Lovely interview ❤ I’m glad I watched this. As someone trying to figure out how to tolerate talking to conservatives, I think starting on something other than politics is brilliant advice. 😅
51% of Americans voted for Donald Trump including lot of former Democrats.
Or just don't. You don't need to socialise with terrible people. In fact, you only give them a pass to be terrible people and not have social consequences.
@ some conservatives are terrible people. Many of the ones in power certainly are. But many of the citizens that vote conservatively have just grown up around conservative people or been fed conservative propaganda. That doesn’t make them terrible, it makes them indoctrinated. Humans are valuable, I don’t want to throw away or discount people just for being naive or impressionable or deeply misinformed. If they only exist around other conservatives, they certainly will not face any social consequences.
So yes, there are some extremism on both sides, and we know that trump voters have been infiltrated by some very hatefilled white nationalist groups along with conspiracies but before my list gets too long I will just say not everyone who voted for trump is that way. A lot of them have been unknowingly duped with his promises and false information and the only thing I feel for them is sadness that it could happen. I understand it they think he is going to help them, that he actually is trying to keep our country safe, and that they can trust him because he's not the typical life long "corrupt" politician and he must be different because he wants to clear out all the untrustworthy people in government that have done them wrong. He's given them a false dream and if I wasn't skeptical by nature maybe I'd even believe he would make America great. We have to have some compassion for people like that and show them kindness and when they see all the hate on their side and the kindness from the other hopefully it will hit them.
I have a coworker who is pro trump but I'm a full blue party voter. I'm one of the only people at work he has full conversations with we both agree everything is a mess and that's what we find important we just disagree and joke with each other about how to fix it. That's what i miss from politics a decade ago the ability to just disagree and still be friends
My very extroverted brother was recently venting his frustration around the lack of community in the US. We need more people like Robert to help us introverts understand how devastating this can be to the lives of those we care about, and how that can spill over into government ideals.
What a delightful human. I suggest volunteering is a near panacea for the problem at hand. To some extent the type of activity or situation in which one volunteers will be a factor in whom you may be rubbing shoulders with when volunteering. A library, will be different than a 4-H event, which is different than a hospice organization, which is different than an animal shelter. Ultimately, the town council scenario described in the video will probably be closer to the norm than we might expect.
Read his books for my poli-sci class. They are classics. Still remember his book on political reform in Italy and political culture. Hope today's students are still requested to read them.
I love that the Daily Show does serious interviews even though it's a comedy show, but can we get the regular news media to do more of this too? Comedy shows shouldn't be our main source of news.
This guy is a total goofball, and fantastically coherent and deep.
Thanks for having him on.
I remember having to read this book in college around 2017/2018 for a sociology class. Great work.
All of our free spaces have been taken away, there's nowhere to go that doesn't require money. If you don't spend money, you're loitering. People used to hang out at the park or go for walks, kids could play outside together without having to worry about being messy or loud (or getting hit by a car unless they were in a bigger city lol). Or the things that did require money weren't so ridiculously expensive, you could go hang out at the mall and get a slice of pizza then wander around or watch a movie and it wouldn't bankrupt you. There's nowhere to go now, it's all parking lots and stores and highways with little bits of green snuck in-between.
Excellent point.
@mayaenglish5424 Excellent point. Definitely a symptom of a much larger problem.
That's why libraries are still so, so important. The only place where we can all go, basically for free and connect on a community level. :)
@@mirnabecevic1797 Wait until the book bans start happening and the contents of the library will have to start changing.
@@sprybug What do you mean "wait until" lol they've been happening the whole time and we've been fighting them with various degrees of success. They might kick it up a notch in the next 4 years, but it's definitely not new.
I don’t know how I feel about this. Trump and his MAGA crowd is a big part of why I have isolated myself. I hate Trump and his ilk I live in a blue state but a red county. I’ve just dug in and kept to myself. I’m a Gold Star mom. I only go out to participate in our events and to support veterans events. And occasionally see friends. But no amount of isolation/loneliness would make me support the orange felon.
Your comment brings tears to my eyes, and not only am I not a blue star mom, or even a woman, and the last living relative who was in the military (Korean war) that i had was my dad who died in 2007. Well I’m not sure where I was going with that but I appreciate you and the conversation makes me sad. But I think I can sympathize, even if I can’t empathize.
After you see how suffer the veteran in Korea & Vietnam war, you still vote Pro War Democrats.
@@jly5828 haha are you a kid or something? It's like you have no memory of the early 2000s
Same here. I understand what he's saying. Yes, it will help, but there are a lot more going on than just what he's saying. I look at myself for example. I'm on the spectrum, which instantly makes me a social outcast and difficult to be able to feel comfortable in groups of people. I've made efforts though. I've tried to be more social, reach out, be a part of something, sure it initially works, but then things happen in your life that make you have to change things in your life and no longer part of the group. Like when I went back to school and changed my career. I had to drop so much to do that. I was in a band and I played baseball. I moved for my schooling and I had to drop all that. Then when I went back to work, my focus was on my career and then I started to see the ugliness happen slowly around me and it made me want to feel more isolated and now I rarely leave my apartment and have basically lost all faith in humanity at this point.
No one is asking you to support Trump. Makes friends with people don't even mention politics for a Year.
I'm a semi-retired high school teacher who bought a house on 2009, lost it in '19 and am rebuilding in a better place with a new community, actually several at this point and a renewed connection to college friends 3-4 decades past.This morning I asked myself a question: Where did all my high school classmates and former students who didn't go to even community college or the military find themselves 10 years later? Then tonight's guest's topics. Thanks.
@billsadler3 Why don’t you call them up?
@billsadler3 Why don’t you just call them up?
We're a backwards society.
These two are great together!
Oh man - I have been going against the introverted grain here in Seattle for YEARS, on purpose - because of Bowling Alone! Thank you Bob! What a sweet man too.
Bowling used to be a relatively inexpensive group activity. Now on a weekend night you're going to spend a hundred dollars each there with drinks.
"instead of having friends, we've been watching friends. "
Love this guest ❤
Yes, I love this guy.
This last week, I have come to terms with something.
The difference between us is, we do not want to be enemies.
And
The *enemy* is truly, within.
*That guy can talk you into anything.*
No, the enemy is definitely the fascists. And they very much are an enemy and you shouldn't want to be friends with them.
Very informative. Gotta watch Ride Or Die, and although I don’t read much or well because of my severe ADD, I’m very interested in Putnam‘s book Bowling Alone. He seems to be a fascinating professor/author. He really makes a lot of sense especially in retrospect.
How do we build bridging social capital while also protecting minority groups that are being targeted? I'm not interested in bridging if it means me and my friends will still be attacked.
Thank you. Someone else gets it.
United we stand, divided we fall.
Great conversation. Important feature of a healthy life; connection, and finding ways to connect with a variety of people, not just one kind or race or tribe.,
I loved this book.
Community is something you have to intentionally create and work for.
Love this man! My people!
Excellent interview. Thank you
My wife manages our neighborhood co-op. Join your local co-op. If you don't have one, start it.
To those wondering, he explains this concept much more clearly in his books. I feel like he’s someone who is better at communicating with the help of charts. I’m currently reading his book “The Upswing” which is about how we went through another really divisive time in American history during the Guilded Age and how we came out of that with stronger social ties and better economic opportunities for more people up until the past few decades where we’ve cycled back to heightened individualism.
The part where Mr. Putnam says that people with no college degrees are more likely to have even less friends. Is this because of the amount of time they have to put into work and overtime and commuting that they don’t have the time or money to make friends or is there something more involved?
I assume it is also the type of work they do. Sat at a checkout or working on a line on your own can't be much fun. Corporations treat their employees like dirt these days, so the camaraderie that used to surround factories has been deliberately cut. Can't have people TALKING. They might form a union! And the they have to get into their cars and drive along their long, lonely streets.
It's called" inferior complex" and is very common.
@@SteveConkie-t6r Yes, there's a lot more going on than what he's just saying. Sure, it'd help, but it's far from a single solution.
I think it's because college is 3--4 years of nothing but both bridging social capital and bonding social capital, that lasts a lifetime even if you don't stay in contact with all those friends. I'm autistic, introverted and socially awkward but my University years were the most social I have ever been in my life. I met and made friends with people from all over the world. I shared dorms with a Muslim guy from Jordan, a very shy guy from Malaysia as well as two local girls who only lived a few hours away. (Yes, co-ed dorms, separate bedrooms, shared kitchen and living room.) We all shared our food and cultures with each other. These experiences were invaluable not only to learning to making friends in the future, but interacting with people from a diverse range of backgrounds gave me a perspective on the world that is far more broad and open minded than it would have been had I not gone to University. This has stuck with me for life, even though I now work from home and get very little social interaction day to day.
@Sirlancegeo, I think there's also a tendency towards being exclusive that each group has but probably the educated to a slightly higher degree. They're not trying to mix with the working class or help the working-class move up in status. Plus with every sector dealing with a shrinking pool of jobs, everyone's a potential competitor for the remaining jobs...🤷🏽♀️
Been studying this guy since college, so great to see him still lively
Omg…I went bowling alone…I didn’t think anything about it but I realized I could have invited a friend
This is such an underreported aspect of radicalization, polarization and erosion of society cohesion. Loneliness literally destroys democracies.
Recreate dense cities and heavily invest in public transit to make people be around others and create connections more often than just a few events every few months.
I think people have to consciously put in the effort, though. I live in a city and coach a sport for adults. I've also played in a league with far less time commitment and that costs a fraction of the competitive sport. Both struggle for numbers compared to two generations ago, and that's with the city having nearly twice the population. Even when active, people are more likely to do something alone on their own time (run, gym) than something scheduled with a group.
@@Nieghorn I mean sports for adults is really niche considering those who regularly do it are either professional which is extremely small or were athletes in high school, also small. Also high population isn't the same as density.
But still being forced to be around people has a better chance to build a community than not. Remember being around so many people in school? It was great.
I cited Bowling Alone a whole bunch in big presentation I did for an anthropology course I had around 2011, mainly focused on anomie, the term he used for the way this disconnectedness manifests in an individual. Didn't realize Putnam was so jolly! Really cool that he was on the show, as I keep saying that all kinds of anthro/socio/psych/etc concepts are really things that everyone in society should know. Of course that would make people less easy to manipulate, and the GOP can't have that, so they try and poison words or ideas (woke, CRT) and in time this leads to anti-intellectualism all over.
He said this isolation began 50 years ago so the mid 70s. Having grown up in that time, we had a lot of community. We went to concerts, went dancing, went to parties, played sports, etc. We knew our neighbors. But a lot of that was taken away. Concerts are crazy expensive, dancing went out the window, sports are only played in school, school got VERY strict and crazy; they took the doors off the bathroom so no one would dare smoke. They barely let the kids go outside unsupervised. We didn't have any mass shootings. I think all of this was deliberate; they are breaking up our communities so they can divide us. Divide and conquer us. Who you ask? The wealthy and powerful who want to take over our democracy and make money off of every little thing we do. Yes, we need community. We need free concerts in the parks, poetry readings, places to dance instead of exercising in a boring gym, cafes, music, art, poetry readings, festivals everywhere. That is what brings people out and where community can be restarted. No politics nor religion needed. Every town should have a fair every single weekend in their local park. I drive by so many empty parks. Use them!
What a sweet guy
It's not just America.
Its hard to start a bowling league when you work 60-80 hours a week for barely enough money to keep the lights on.
80 hours at $10/hr is still $3,200 a month before taxes. How is that "barely enough"?
@@emantabrizi8218 When the average rent for a one-bedroom apartment is $1800 a month pre-utilities. Add in electricity, gas, internet, cell phone, in many cases now water - then if you have a car, insurance, gas, maintenance. Mayyybe, a hundred bucks in your 401k. Finally, groceries prices inflated by monopolization of producers and grocer chains...
it doesn't leave much money left over.
Like Bernie has been saying repeatedly of late, 60% of workers are living paycheck to paycheck.
@@emantabrizi8218 Shut it.
This was informative and interesting.
Uuuuuhm please have Robert Putnam on as often as possible ❤
this guy is spot on and its spreading.
The thing not mentioned here is that it greatly benefits the capitalist class for poor, working class americans to not have friends, to not trust one another, and to ultimately be divided. It benefits these moneybags because employees who dont know one another cannot or at least will not unionize, will not work together for better working conditions, and so on. Thats why social media is such a lucrative business for these people. Not because of the ad revenue, tho im sure that doesnt hurt, but actually because it keeps us distracted, spoon fed propaganda, and being friends with someone in another country is better for them than you being friends with your coworker who might help you unionize.
I really like Jordan. I don't know why he hasn't been givin his own show.
They did.
@@olorin4317 Oh... I did not know that. I'll have to see if I can find it.
@@olorin4317 Not exactly.
As someone who has an increasingly strong "us vs them" mentality, this really resonated. I'm going to make efforts to connect with those I disagree with politically.
I would love to start a group for lonely people because I know being around other people can help with depression. However, I’m too depressed to do it. Not due to politics, been in therapy for years. 💔
THIS THIS! My *HERO* growing up was my lifelong Republican grandfather who raised me. He was a cop. I am one of those "crazy lefties" who wants everyone to have healthcare and people not to get shot and stuff and this is where I come from not because I have *departed* from the values of the small-town rural south but because I *FOLLOW* them. Rural people in this country used to be fundamentally COMMUNAL, before neoliberalism isolated everyone and now these sad sack little boys who claim to be "tradtionalists" or whatever don't even know what it means, alone in front of their computers beating off, not even knowing their neighbors' names, not being able to walk anywhere after school, everyone atomized and divided for easy exploitation. This is the enemy that we should *SHARE* with maga to earn the trust of some voters and bring some of these young men back to the light and help them heal that pain and loneliness that they feel but don't understand because they have never even known true family or community bonds.
Yessssss! Agreed. I live in a city, take the bus, go to university, work with the public at a zoo- I'm constantly interacting with people different from me. But we can bond over our shared love of animals, studying art, and you could even say the shared misery of waiting for the bus in the cold. That bridging social capital comes from even just walking on the street with other people, sharing space.
I see MAGA say cities are scary and dangerous, school is indoctrinating and dangerous. That this diverse, more challenging social connection is too hard - we need a nice simple ideology to all rally behind, to truly unite America and form community. And I can see how that is very important to people, especially to lonely people, because community is SO important.
@@maedesmond2461 The rural problem is isolation, which morphs into ignorance and voting against things they know nothing about and doesn't affect them.
And that isolation can also be created by the internet even for city folk... in keeping with the larger theme.
Stand Together!!
They did… with Trump
I'm 50/50 on this. And its funny I'm watching this extraordinarily fun Daily Show sit-down now because I just met with an old colleague for drinks. Despite being a Trump voter he has helped me big time before the pandemic with a job and letting me keep the work van for personal use. We also agree on things mostly, and I'm not a Trumper. At the same time he voted along with 75 million people to potentially get Medicare and Social Security gutted.
I suppose we should at least hold in the philosophy that Mr. Putnam has expressed and shared, but with caution. Because we are so familiar with thousands of Trumpers in person and online tirelessly parroting the same cliche right wing talking points.
What happened 50 years ago?
By the 1970's car-centric suburbia had fully taken over America. It's easy to never meet your neighbors if you never walk by their house, and there are no common places where you spontaneously run into the same people like the nearby park or bakery.
A reason, veterans were encouraged to move to prefab housing to work in the factories for the corporations.
They did not return to their home communities which would have been next generation leaders. These farming communities may have failed.
We were raised by war traumatized men, who were robots in the factories.
No wonder we are alienated from our neighbors, it has become the “normal.” 🐝
Add the personal computer and social media to the factors.
Excellent!
There is still community- it may be harder to find or maintain, but it is there. Schools, sports, churches, parks, work... it takes effort, that's for sure.
No, you're wrong, community should never be hard to find, if it is, then it doesn't exist.
A lot of churches are the problem now. They are about bonding not bringing I’m sorry to say.
According to this, I should have statistically been a prime target for the rights messaging. I think it's more than the loneliness/isolation but the intentional undermining and failure of the educational system, creating their target audience.
Look to how the churches taught in Latin (or read hieroglyphs), and hoarded education and books behind clerical walls.
The cruelty, is that dissociation of responsibility "God's will", you must have done something to deserve your fate (only when i need a victim of my 'groups' hate).
I talk to almost everyone, but some of those red hats are angry, even in victory. The hostility radiates off of some.
Great show.
#knitter 😉
DIVIDE AND CONQUER!
Not me literally sitting alone on my break at work watching Robert Putnam. 😅
Jordan is adorable
Dont stand down! The fight against trump continues! Stand up to unfair bills and keep on marching. Solidarity to all💙
Chill. You had the chance, now sit down and watch the show
@@yogeshkmrful We can't & won't sit idly by to watch our democracy fall apart.
@@PAMELAPORTER-ci7mr you did, when you sent arms and billions in dollars to Israel for wiping out Muslims.
Such a gentleman.
..as I hide alone in my room... just to be able to watch this uninterrupted:)
Prepare, don't despair ( "we are the enemy from within" )
He’s talking about the government not people. Come on man,
@@malvarez8484 no he was talking about community not people....people like you are exactly the result of the issue.
@@malvarez8484 He isn't, he is talking about liberals and jews.
"Now the music divides us into tribes
You grew your hair
So I grew mine
You said the past won't rest
Until we jump the fence and leave it behind
But you started a war
That we can't win
They keep erasing all the streets we grew up in
Now the music divides us into tribes
You choose your side
I'll choose my side"
-Arcade Fire "Suburban War"
I love the sense of humor
I’m a boomer. We were raised to be a housewife/mom, but when our time came we were suddenly required to be the second-job person in the household, put our kids in daycare or have latch-key kids. Men were not yet expected to pick up “women’s work”, so we brought home the bacon and fried it up as they say. And you want us to have Tupperware parties and be on the PTA. We tried, we really did.
Even in the 80s no one wanted to be my friend. When my parents divorced, one neighbor told her daughter not to play with me anymore. So, whatever.
I'm hearing a lot about HOW these things get bad, not WHY, probably because it's obvious: economic disparity breeds contempt for your fellow man. The wider the income gap, the more you grow to distrust those below and above you. We can't fix that with a bowling league, a block party, etc. We need elected leaders who will help alleviate the problem.
It feels like the marketing machine, the machine for selling people on constant consumerism probably plays a very big role. Turning Americans into consumers means selling more widgets. Buy this car to be better than your neighbors, or to even intimidate your neighbors. This car is big and dangerous.
Robert will be 84 years old on January 9th? Wow.
Internet has a lot to answer for.
David Bowie mentioned in an interview in 1997...that we were on a verge of a very exciting but equally terrifying change.... IE WWW
How right he was
Smart and funny guy. Yeah, Klepper too. 😜
Does this fellow need a job? He's very insightful and has natural chemistry with Jordan.
He has a job already. He’s a professor.
Most of my neighbors are maga who don't listen to anything else. We don't hang out.
Whereas you're also watching Fox news?
Magas are more welcoming. Liberals on the other hand would abandon their mother if she voted a different politician.
Great conversation.
We are all human beings who bleed.
And pooh.
This is true, but we need to go deeper...
What drove these people to loneliness? What took away our time we used to spend together? Also, what replaced those old ways and habits?
Exactly. This felt of, just join a local group, yo! There's a lot more going on.
Is this why trick or treating seems to be slipping into oblivion?
Best trick or treating was at the nursing home of a small town. Stores bought the candy and children costumes were judged. Such delightful joy on the patients faces (many who had no other visitors) was priceless memories!
Trick or treating was originally an expression of trusting your neighbors.
Great convo, I’m just confused why people without education will end up with no friends? Is it just that uni makes you socialise with lots to different people and be open to experiences?
They must spend more time commuting & working, often more than 1 job.
I was a very social person until around the spring of 2020 when a little thing like the COVID 19 pandemic not only brought the world to it's knees in multiple ways, including a shutdown of non-essential businesses that are more for socializing, like bars and restaurants.
Also I live in a red state where the conversations in the bars had become about what you aren't supposed to discuss while consuming adult beverages. Politics, religion and now a whole new list of grievances that they have never experienced or had their lives affected by whatever is woke that day.
Plus they have become incredibly hard to have an intelligent conversation with anyone MAGA these days.
The Epstien Tapes been out since Nov 2 at the Daily Beast. Sounds as though he was inside Trumps Whitehouse.
Go play pinball at an arcade or a bar with machines. It's cheap fun and there are leagues and tournaments. Great way to make new friends.
Fascinating, this man ❤
Thank you, Mister Putnam 😅
And joining us from Amish bowling country it's Bob Putnam!
Let’s get efficient work but have water cooler moments with strangers.
It's an interesting theory, but I noticed he didn't say whether he admitted to his neighbor that he was a Democrat, which could have immediately resulted in the other person becoming a real and physical threat.
THIS THIS THIS. People are so lame now. A lot of us (anthropology majors like myself) have known this for a LONG time.
I wonder if Eric Fromm is Robert Putnam's Guru. Escape from Freedom. Read it.