One thing i want to say, i hope this sentiment that kindred needs some sort of rework gets bigger overtime. I LOVE the character too and even got mastery 6 on them but im so tired of playing jungle on ultra hard mode while the whole enemy team gets exact info of my marks for free. She gives too much info to the enemy team, changes as minor as making the game less needlesly difficult for her and making her less feast or famine with the mark system would already make me happy. Sorry for the yapping, anyways, seeing what you said about how she basically plays like vayne and your ideas for a huge rework sound trally cool
not a yap at all lmao, this video is me talking for 22 mins LMAO, i agree! its so frustrating invading, but i actually think the marking enemy jungle camps mechanic is really fun, the think the champion however doesn’t fit that play style at all, which is why i gave this version the vision, mobility & more damage with Wolf! still risky & dangerous but i feel like this variation will be really fun to invade with
look i made this without headphones because i literally don’t own any also i dont know how to edit at all but yeah im being dragged for it out here fr lol
Conceptually there are a lot of things i like about this rework, ive had my own wishes for a kindred rework for a while now. There are some slight changes that I'd wanna mention/add to it. The concept of changing into a seperate character instead of forms is really cool, having kindred's current model be her Lamb form is the way to go, but instead of having lamb just walk behind you as the Wolf, i think she should invisibly (50% opacity to the user and 0% for everyone else) hop alongside the terrain/brush every few seconds like she's stalking, trying to remain unseen at all points. But an actual gameplay gripe i have (and have always had with Kindred) is that the lamb is supposed to represent a 'swift and painless death' and the wolf represents a ragged painful chase, but in practice they do each others' job, with the wolf executes swiftly as the lamb peppers them with arrows to give chase. This rework personally doesn't solve that issue for me. My solution would make the mark system identical to Warwicks W, and that enemies naturally brought below half health are marked for death. Change the Q's projectiles into the E projectile here and have the atk speed buff into a small slow, flat dmg bonus, and runaans effect on the next 2 autos, slow and dmg increasing with stacks. And instead of the Wolf having a Q active, make it a sole passive where he has increased move speed towards Marked Targets. W active can be the same swapping idea, just make wolf have a full body. But the 3 hit passive idea seems a bit overloaded with all the passives Id be adding so taking that out. And in reverse of the Q change, the E will be an active only for Wolf, but the Max hp dmg is dealt in a 2 second bleed that heals Wolf for 40% of its dmg and does not apply on Attacks (still does onhits) and the Lamb will simply have passive increased missing hp dmg on all her autos (not scaling with stacks) The R can stay the exact same, I like the idea of sealing an opponents fate instead of usually saving them, but instead of making it stack based, just have it be a flat 15% I dont know what your opinions of this would be, but to me this solves my biggest issue of playing 7Kindred feeling backwards to its own lore. In this version I kinda want the wolf to feel like a Rushdown, almost nocturne esque character and Lamb to feel more like Varus, or Like swapping between red/blue kayn on the fly without having to build for a specific one.
THIS!!!!! You actually have a personal goal for what you like about the champion & want to bring it into the gameplay, being transparent i still prefer my own version because my personal wants with Kindred are different but i still adore this so much! For example, Lamb to me is careful, cautious & smart, Wolf is aggressive & will kill you. I wanted to represent the specific dynamic of Lamb one shotting & Wolf chasing you’re talking in the ultimate, the rest of the kit is for other ideas for me. Ultimately this is just preference, i did play around with larger heals, bleeds & other ideas you mentioned, but ultimately that isn’t where i personally wanted to take the gameplay, my version of Kindred plays like Lamb being careful & moving with precision until she executes you with the ultimate, while Wolf is aggressive & blood thirsty, both are capable of killing you just in different ways, and i find that dynamic much more exciting to represent death. I love your comment though, like nothings ever set in stone these are fun ideas ideally we’d all work together to make Kindred feel exactly how they should ♥️
not super far, and its an intreresting video. just a tip it would be a more enjoyable experience, if your narration wasnt just in the left ear and the music in the right. and the music is a little too loud.
Anyways, the only thing i dont like in this rework is that her passive info is still the same, i read a pretty good idea that enemies should see only the side the mark will be, not the exact monster, it is to me kindreds biggest problem (maybe her only REAL problem) and its not addressed in this rework
The reason i didn’t change that is because while that dynamic is really frustrating and difficult, i think this version of kindred will be better equipped to do those risky invades, i actually really enjoy that the enemy & I have the same information, but this seems to be something kindred mains find frustrating, i think since kindreds an ADC it can feel like borderline trolling to even consider going for marks, hopefully this version would be in a better position to do that!
Okay actually i’ve made some changes today, hear me out on this. In order to mark an enemy champion or enemy large monster, Kindred must get their health at or below 5% (scaling with 1.5% per mark). Once marked, the game checks to see if they’re running away from Kindred, or still fighting. If they’re running away, any damage from Wolf will execute. If they’re fighting, any damage from Lamb will execute. I hope this made some sense
they’re not killable! but you share a health bar, the health bar is just on whoever ur controlling, also the only stats that are different between them is Wolf AD scaling with marks & Lambs auto attack range :D
W Mark passive completely removes the whole theme of “death choosing a prey to hunt” and that choice being those who are deemed ready to embrace the end of life by Kindred herself, thus why it makes sense why you’re able to click a champion to hunt down for. Same with enemy jungle mobs being able to apply Marks, selectively chosen by wolf as their purpose is to claim the souls of mobs nearing its lifespan, and not just any person Kindred comes across. On-hit passive application just does not feel right…
i wanted the marking mechanic to be implemented into their abilities rather than something in the HUD, honestly it could go anywhere but a 3 hit passive seems on brand with Kindred & a simple enough condition to reasonably achieve. It definitely feels weird to have it on an on hit passive but i think the would feel really fluid & fun, plus u can only have one person marked so it would remove the mark if u auto someone else 3 times
What about the new Lamb E arrow Marking instead? that way it’s like a hunting shot, that would feel more “you better run now” since you could start of chases/ganks/invades with that spell which would literally feel like hunting!
I am going to ignore the numbers and only focus on functionality and theme while writing this. I think your thoughts go in a very interesting direction thematically. I currently have no issues with Kindred's kit, maybe apart from the ult. Gameplay wise, I think this idea is unique, but is incredibly confusing to play as or against. Swapping who you control at will and additionally teleporting, in a sense, is a lot. Then there is also the problem of balancing. No matter what numbers you choose, you will either have a champ that is useless early and unstoppable with stacks, or you will have a champ that is mediocre at best with nothing to gain from stacks, because they dont give enough. There are just too many factors scaling with the stacks in your rework idea. The ult does seem interesting to me. I am just unsure how this "chasing down" part would go. Who would you control? Overall very interesting, but at the same time unrealistic imo. The while swapping control and the way they move in relation to each other just doesnt sit right with me.
Okay totally valid & i figured this is how it would be perceived! I was very intentional about smoothing out the damage & mobility to be basically equal to current Kindred’s only slightly stronger given the loss in ranged DPS. I don’t think this version of the champion would cause any problems that either aren’t always part of the game or aren’t solvable with number adjustments! The way i imagine the ult working is if they exit the circle, Wolf breaks free from Lamb (kinda like what the current W is trying to be) and chases the marked target, either Wolf’s movement would be his Q movespeed but constant, or just teleport him to the target for his E every 2 seconds! it shouldn’t give a lot of wiggle room to survive but just enough, i can imagine a tank or healing champ just living for WAY to long if it was weaker lmao
i’ll also add that the teleporting aspect isn’t as complex as i might have made it sound, ur basically moving a targeted oriana ball that zed W’s you to location every 3rd auto, i feel conditional mobility has felt much more exciting to play with, as or against. Also current Kindred has the exact same dynamic you described, being bad without stacks & to strong with them, in my opinion that’s kind of the appeal to the champion, ideally they’re not useless early but i think it’s perfectly okay for stacking champions to be very strong with their stacks, high risk high reward and all that. I truthfully only care about what is fun, I think league will at times be frustrating, that’s just how it is, none of these changes are game shatteringly insane, it’s kinda just Kindred but with more unique & conditional mobility + satisfying damage (because while i love the current E damage, sometimes auto attacking does more DPS which feels awful cause you don’t want to be punished for using your fun ability) + Wolf being incorporated more. Anyway it’s so sick & cool you commented & watched this, thanks, fr 🥹
idk what this vid is about but the narrator sounds hot
ya got me ✋😩🤚
One thing i want to say, i hope this sentiment that kindred needs some sort of rework gets bigger overtime. I LOVE the character too and even got mastery 6 on them but im so tired of playing jungle on ultra hard mode while the whole enemy team gets exact info of my marks for free. She gives too much info to the enemy team, changes as minor as making the game less needlesly difficult for her and making her less feast or famine with the mark system would already make me happy.
Sorry for the yapping, anyways, seeing what you said about how she basically plays like vayne and your ideas for a huge rework sound trally cool
not a yap at all lmao, this video is me talking for 22 mins LMAO, i agree! its so frustrating invading, but i actually think the marking enemy jungle camps mechanic is really fun, the think the champion however doesn’t fit that play style at all, which is why i gave this version the vision, mobility & more damage with Wolf! still risky & dangerous but i feel like this variation will be really fun to invade with
i was about to comment about the audio but then i saw you were already being raked across the coals about it haha
look i made this without headphones because i literally don’t own any also i dont know how to edit at all but yeah im being dragged for it out here fr lol
Conceptually there are a lot of things i like about this rework, ive had my own wishes for a kindred rework for a while now. There are some slight changes that I'd wanna mention/add to it. The concept of changing into a seperate character instead of forms is really cool, having kindred's current model be her Lamb form is the way to go, but instead of having lamb just walk behind you as the Wolf, i think she should invisibly (50% opacity to the user and 0% for everyone else) hop alongside the terrain/brush every few seconds like she's stalking, trying to remain unseen at all points.
But an actual gameplay gripe i have (and have always had with Kindred) is that the lamb is supposed to represent a 'swift and painless death' and the wolf represents a ragged painful chase, but in practice they do each others' job, with the wolf executes swiftly as the lamb peppers them with arrows to give chase. This rework personally doesn't solve that issue for me.
My solution would make the mark system identical to Warwicks W, and that enemies naturally brought below half health are marked for death. Change the Q's projectiles into the E projectile here and have the atk speed buff into a small slow, flat dmg bonus, and runaans effect on the next 2 autos, slow and dmg increasing with stacks. And instead of the Wolf having a Q active, make it a sole passive where he has increased move speed towards Marked Targets.
W active can be the same swapping idea, just make wolf have a full body. But the 3 hit passive idea seems a bit overloaded with all the passives Id be adding so taking that out.
And in reverse of the Q change, the E will be an active only for Wolf, but the Max hp dmg is dealt in a 2 second bleed that heals Wolf for 40% of its dmg and does not apply on Attacks (still does onhits) and the Lamb will simply have passive increased missing hp dmg on all her autos (not scaling with stacks)
The R can stay the exact same, I like the idea of sealing an opponents fate instead of usually saving them, but instead of making it stack based, just have it be a flat 15%
I dont know what your opinions of this would be, but to me this solves my biggest issue of playing 7Kindred feeling backwards to its own lore. In this version I kinda want the wolf to feel like a Rushdown, almost nocturne esque character and Lamb to feel more like Varus, or Like swapping between red/blue kayn on the fly without having to build for a specific one.
THIS!!!!! You actually have a personal goal for what you like about the champion & want to bring it into the gameplay, being transparent i still prefer my own version because my personal wants with Kindred are different but i still adore this so much! For example, Lamb to me is careful, cautious & smart, Wolf is aggressive & will kill you. I wanted to represent the specific dynamic of Lamb one shotting & Wolf chasing you’re talking in the ultimate, the rest of the kit is for other ideas for me.
Ultimately this is just preference, i did play around with larger heals, bleeds & other ideas you mentioned, but ultimately that isn’t where i personally wanted to take the gameplay, my version of Kindred plays like Lamb being careful & moving with precision until she executes you with the ultimate, while Wolf is aggressive & blood thirsty, both are capable of killing you just in different ways, and i find that dynamic much more exciting to represent death.
I love your comment though, like nothings ever set in stone these are fun ideas ideally we’d all work together to make Kindred feel exactly how they should ♥️
Your audio is messed up I think. Your voice only comes from the left channel.
ahhh dang, yeah i threw this together & i’m not surprised something like that’s the case, truly sorry
My left ear enjoyed this video. Also the music gets too loud and snuffs out your voice at some points.
i’ve been told, i actually just suck at editing and was so done, sorry
@@ScrimbledAegit’s not that bad, great video otherwise 👍
not super far, and its an intreresting video.
just a tip it would be a more enjoyable experience, if your narration wasnt just in the left ear and the music in the right. and the music is a little too loud.
Anyways, the only thing i dont like in this rework is that her passive info is still the same, i read a pretty good idea that enemies should see only the side the mark will be, not the exact monster, it is to me kindreds biggest problem (maybe her only REAL problem) and its not addressed in this rework
The reason i didn’t change that is because while that dynamic is really frustrating and difficult, i think this version of kindred will be better equipped to do those risky invades, i actually really enjoy that the enemy & I have the same information, but this seems to be something kindred mains find frustrating, i think since kindreds an ADC it can feel like borderline trolling to even consider going for marks, hopefully this version would be in a better position to do that!
Okay actually i’ve made some changes today, hear me out on this. In order to mark an enemy champion or enemy large monster, Kindred must get their health at or below 5% (scaling with 1.5% per mark). Once marked, the game checks to see if they’re running away from Kindred, or still fighting. If they’re running away, any damage from Wolf will execute. If they’re fighting, any damage from Lamb will execute. I hope this made some sense
I love this!
frick yeah! thanks ya
Is the character you are not playing as killable or it's just invincible and just attacks?
they’re not killable! but you share a health bar, the health bar is just on whoever ur controlling, also the only stats that are different between them is Wolf AD scaling with marks & Lambs auto attack range :D
agree that the fantasy doesn't translate to ingame. the literal runeterran grim reaper deserves a more fleshed out fantasy in playstyle
YES EXACTLY!!!! I love the gameplay but we have so many marksmen already, Wolf is literally a circle….
W Mark passive completely removes the whole theme of “death choosing a prey to hunt” and that choice being those who are deemed ready to embrace the end of life by Kindred herself, thus why it makes sense why you’re able to click a champion to hunt down for.
Same with enemy jungle mobs being able to apply Marks, selectively chosen by wolf as their purpose is to claim the souls of mobs nearing its lifespan, and not just any person Kindred comes across.
On-hit passive application just does not feel right…
i wanted the marking mechanic to be implemented into their abilities rather than something in the HUD, honestly it could go anywhere but a 3 hit passive seems on brand with Kindred & a simple enough condition to reasonably achieve.
It definitely feels weird to have it on an on hit passive but i think the would feel really fluid & fun, plus u can only have one person marked so it would remove the mark if u auto someone else 3 times
What about the new Lamb E arrow Marking instead? that way it’s like a hunting shot, that would feel more “you better run now” since you could start of chases/ganks/invades with that spell which would literally feel like hunting!
I am going to ignore the numbers and only focus on functionality and theme while writing this.
I think your thoughts go in a very interesting direction thematically. I currently have no issues with Kindred's kit, maybe apart from the ult.
Gameplay wise, I think this idea is unique, but is incredibly confusing to play as or against.
Swapping who you control at will and additionally teleporting, in a sense, is a lot. Then there is also the problem of balancing. No matter what numbers you choose, you will either have a champ that is useless early and unstoppable with stacks, or you will have a champ that is mediocre at best with nothing to gain from stacks, because they dont give enough. There are just too many factors scaling with the stacks in your rework idea.
The ult does seem interesting to me. I am just unsure how this "chasing down" part would go. Who would you control?
Overall very interesting, but at the same time unrealistic imo. The while swapping control and the way they move in relation to each other just doesnt sit right with me.
Okay totally valid & i figured this is how it would be perceived! I was very intentional about smoothing out the damage & mobility to be basically equal to current Kindred’s only slightly stronger given the loss in ranged DPS. I don’t think this version of the champion would cause any problems that either aren’t always part of the game or aren’t solvable with number adjustments! The way i imagine the ult working is if they exit the circle, Wolf breaks free from Lamb (kinda like what the current W is trying to be) and chases the marked target, either Wolf’s movement would be his Q movespeed but constant, or just teleport him to the target for his E every 2 seconds! it shouldn’t give a lot of wiggle room to survive but just enough, i can imagine a tank or healing champ just living for WAY to long if it was weaker lmao
i’ll also add that the teleporting aspect isn’t as complex as i might have made it sound, ur basically moving a targeted oriana ball that zed W’s you to location every 3rd auto, i feel conditional mobility has felt much more exciting to play with, as or against. Also current Kindred has the exact same dynamic you described, being bad without stacks & to strong with them, in my opinion that’s kind of the appeal to the champion, ideally they’re not useless early but i think it’s perfectly okay for stacking champions to be very strong with their stacks, high risk high reward and all that.
I truthfully only care about what is fun, I think league will at times be frustrating, that’s just how it is, none of these changes are game shatteringly insane, it’s kinda just Kindred but with more unique & conditional mobility + satisfying damage (because while i love the current E damage, sometimes auto attacking does more DPS which feels awful cause you don’t want to be punished for using your fun ability) + Wolf being incorporated more.
Anyway it’s so sick & cool you commented & watched this, thanks, fr 🥹