James and Mike didn't point this out, but the PS1 didn't originally come with analog sticks, like the one they showed in the video. Sony added the Dual Analog Controller and DualShock controllers later on in the life of the system.
Yeah side by side next to a snes controller the ps1 controller isnt that bad, but once you really use it you find the dpad isnt substantial and the grips are so shallow, plus the l2 and r2 buttons are half size
Yeah, also, they didn't mention a key difference between the PS1 DualShock and the PS2 controllers: the latter actually have pressure sensitive face buttons. They were used in racing games sometimes.
Why *B* before *A* ? My theory: The Nintendo was made in Japan, and in Japan, when they write vertically, the text goes from right to left. Hence A < B.
The right to left conclusion is correct. I asked a Nintendo rep from Japan I met at an electronics show in Indianapolis 20 years ago and this is the explanation he gave me.
Also, traditionally, A is used for the main action and B for the secundary action. e.g. in TLOZ A is the sword and B is the item, but Zelda II is a platformer so jumping is more important, so it goes to A and sword to B.
25:43 "This is Playstation 1, and this is Playstation 2" *holds* *up* *Playstation* *3* *controller* Ironically proving the point James made about the playstation controllers blending in
If you guys ever do a follow up, it should be about "gimmick" controllers. Guitar hero, Resident Evil 4 ps2 chainsaw controller, Donkey kong jungle beat drums etc
My favorite gimmick controllers are the pieces of plastic you can attach to wii mote. They had a cooking set, musical instruments, and doctors tools for the trauma team games to name a few.
two toggle sticks is unnecessary. smash t.v. does not need two toggle sticks. computer emulators use an xbox360 controller for a reason. because f*ck bill gates.
Dustin Babb the duke controller is awesome I love the triggers the spring tension in them is perfect for shooters you can just lightly press it and it fires
@@johnnydecomposizione3106 But that would mean a japanese company that originally made the system for the japanese market would have english terms in mind when developing the system, I kinda highly doubt that.
I almost through he was referring to the Duke but forgot about it. Like im the back of his mind, he was remember using the Duke. He mentioned it slimming down.
JBadAss98Gameing. Calm down, dude. Nobody said you were wrong. I had one back in the day, love the Xbox, have around 250 games and only just recently (past month) found out it was called the Duke. Stop acting like an ass.
JBadAss98Gameing Used it lots of times back then, never heard that name. Didn't avoid XBox, didn't hate it, always played video games since the 80s, and my memory is great. We called it The Boat.
The purpose of the two plugs on the Advantage is so you can switch between being player 1 and player 2 on the same controller via a switch on the controller itself. You don't need to plug in both for the controller to function.
I don't see why they made a big deal about the NES advantage not staying still. There's really nothing bad you can say about it. Just put it on a table or a hard book on your lap. I just player Gryzor/ Contra and sat indian style on my couch with the advantage on a hard book and it doesn't go no where. It is the best NES controller ever!
Cool. The last time I dusted off the ol' Advantage I got confused too. I wanted to hook it up to port #1 to play 2-player Guerilla War so I thought I needed the switch on "2." Then I had to guess which plug to use so I used both. Then I switched it back to "1" and voila. I yanked the plug from port #2 and just shrugged. Game on.
Wrong picture of the Xbox controller. You are looking for The Duke which is even bigger and was the actual original. I have huge hands so I liked it actually.
Probably not, although that was in my mind as well until I figured that Japanese and Chinese are only read from right to left if the characters are written/typed vertically while horizontal ones are read from left to right.
See, I looked it as some kind of instinctive preference that A is positive and B is negative if that makes sense. For instance when you play JRPGs on the SNES, A is always for choosing things and B is always cancel... or like, if you're someone old enough like me where you saw old commercials for products that compared to a leading brand, A was what they wanted you to buy and B was their inferior competitor... I don't know... I'm weird. ^^;
It's probably just because A is the primary action button, and B is usually held down to run. If you're holding down a button, it's easier to reach for another button to the right rather than the left because of the way your right thumb is jointed.
You confused the PS3 controller for the PS2 controller. The PS2 controller didn't have the PS button in the middle. Also the original PS1 controller had no sticks. Just a dpad. The one you have is the dualshock controller which was an updated version. They used an almost identical design for PS1, PS2, and PS3.
One thing I always liked was the microswitch controller on the Neo Geo Pocket Color. The Neo Geo CD has one too but always preferred the handheld version for some reason. Made a ton of their fighting games control so damn good
never liked sonys controllers or nitendos and i hated the og xbox controller and the new xbox one controller but to me the 360's was damn near perfect ..wish more looked felt and were shaped like that..it was really appealing especially the white one with the different colored buttons..just really awesome besides the fact the batteries would chrome the ports and make it harder to play over the years so I had to buy new ones which also barely worked smdh ...
Minus the fact that they got so much wrong about the controllers in this video.... They must not have been very big Playstation fans. Shame, as the Xbox sucks ass compared to the Playstation systems.
Cant believe they didnt mention the Saturn controllers! Say what you will about the system, but its Japanese library and its controller is the best thing about it lol. Its basically the exact version of the 6 button Genesis controller he was talking about!
The N64 midsection is basically the Wii Nunchuck. I think it's a comfortable design and the N64 is obviously designed for different games/playstyles. Very innovative in my opinion.
There's a lot you could (and should) have said about the wiimote: 1. There was a speaker in it, which was pretty awesome for certain situations. E.g. in FPS games the gun sound would come from the wiimote. Or if the game had a radio that you had to pick up and listen to, it would come from your wiimote not from the TV. 2. The external controller port was a great idea on the wiimote, allowing you to plug in an auxiliary controller like the nunchuck without it needing to have another Bluetooth radio and batteries. 3. There were heaps of battery packs available for the Wii, allowing you to dock your wiimote when you're not playing it and then it will stay charged. 4. You only needed to sync the wiimote once. Once synced, in order to turn it on you only need to press A. 5. The classic controller (not the Pro Controller you showed). I found it very comfortable.
I also don't know how to read Japanese but I only knew manga is scanned right to left but the words go left to right thats what made me think of this answer.
Thank you! I remember that brick. Actually like the S version, at least until the 360 version came along, but the OG Xbox controller was a fucking beast! Always felt the GC controller was too small. Especially the third party ones.
Wii controllers were what got me into rechargeable batteries. I found a great deal with 8 Duracell with the intelligent charger for $10, lasted me over 7 years
The GC controller was fine on its own, but once I bought two Wavebirds I never looked back! Another good one you didn't mention was the Wii Classic Controller Pro - both worked great for Homebr....I mean Virtual Console games!
I mean since Sony added the joysticks, the button layout and shape hasn't changed. Okay, they added a home button. And on the PS4 the touch pad button. Aside from those two things, not much.
The way James wraps the cords around the controllers drives me absolutely mad! Bro leave some slack at the controller/cord connection point please for the love of Rolfe!
When the NES came out, the biggest deal to me was the pause button. Never before were we able to take a break from games. A huge game changer that no one talks about.
I had to look it up because I can remember pausing games when I was at my uncle's house, and he's who had an Intellevision. You had to press 1 and 9 on the keypad to pause, so it was probably an afterthought. The Atari 5200 (1982) had an actual pause button on the controllers.
Great video. You guys made a mistake with the xbox controller though, that's actually the S version that's smaller than the original "Duke" version. Personally the Xbox 360 controller was great and the Xbone version is even better, it's my favorite controller
I've always liked good ol double As, just a quick pop and swap no charging to mess with. It also has a microusb port at the top for use as a wired controller. The biggest pro for me is how ergonomic it is, melts right into my hands. The only major fuckup was the proprietary jack for audio but they fixed that on later models.
Arbiter099 I definitely think that the latest game controllers should always be the best ones, after so many generations if seeing what was done right and wrong, it's kind of hard to fuck it up.
360 I liked save for the Dpad. Though it was trash. XBone controller I like save for the awful Bumpers. Stick the 360 Bumpers on the XBone and you got the perfect controller IMO
I've never heard someone call the S controller "too big". I'm just going to assume they thought they were holding up a Duke, because the S controller was just perfection, probably my favorite controller. I do however agree with Mike as far as the 360 controller is concerned, much better than the Xbone controller for me.
Funny that Mike ends on talking about the Wii U Gamecube controller adapter (which only worked for Smash Bros. on the Wii U unless you used a third party one) but that official Nintendo Wii U Gamecube controller adapter now works on the Nintendo Switch, allowing you to use a Gamecube controller with any Switch game (granted you're missing a couple buttons, so not all games will work fully)
Holy crap I would really like one of those now! Nintendo is really forward and backward thinking at the same time. Their most clumsy yet endearing trait IMO.
To this day, my favorite controllers come from the Gamecube. They just knocked it out of the park in design etc. If I could use a Wavebird controller on my Xbox/PS4 I'd be in heaven :-D
It's like, JEEZ, there's four buttons right on front of the controller! BUT THAT'S NOT ENOUGH TO WORK WITH?! Instead, they have to, like, program it, like, all into like, weird kinda crazy button combinations and shit?! It's like, what were they thinking?!
Up is jump, select is for the grappling hook! Select should just be part of the menus or something, not a basic function you have to do in order to beat the game!
Dreamcast controller has two big slots on the front for memory card/VMU, where exactly were they supposed to have the cord? You should do a part two for others, like the NES Max controller for instance.
The NES Advantage was my favorite controller ever. Definitely meant to play on the floor or a table- not in your lap. It was very well constructed. Another thing that was cool about it was that you could twist off the joystick knob and replace it with another type of knob if you could find one compatible with it.
When you replace batteries, make sure all the batteries are new and of the same brand from the same package, i noticed an energizer mixed with a duracell, that can make the batteries more likely to leak
Yeah, the differing charges will cause the stronger battery to try and charge the other. Since they're non-chargeable it causes the battery that attempts to charge to leak. That and if you're not going to use them for a while just remove the batteries, you can keep it with the controller as long as they're not inside, just as a precaution. Does make me wonder if chargeables have that problem as well since it's still probably not the way they like to be charged.
Thanks TwistedD85, i never knew that until now. I always thought this "don't mix batteries" stuff was just a marketing ploy, because it never made sense to me. however, your explanation clears it up :)
yeah, because the primary problem is leakage of fluids from inside the battery (which in turn cause corrosion as a secondary problem) also that stuff can be pretty toxic, so make sure to wash your hands thoroughly after dealing with something like that.
It's frustrating that no one else ever adopted the big A button design of gamecube. Not even Nintendo. It's so easy to roll your thumb slightly to the other three buttons while holding A
Speak for yourself. I hated the big A button and how the other face buttons were placed. I also hated how the Y and X buttons had a weird shape to them.
This is why it’s awkward to play F-Zero emulated with an xbox layout controller. You have to hold a to accelerate, and press y to boost, but with a modern controller layout, you can’t hit A and Y without accidentally pressing X or B
why the buttons are B and A instead of A and B, because japanese reads from right to left maybe, like in comics, where they start from upper right to bottom left, so A right and B left maybe???
Japanese is not read from right to left, unlike languages like Arab and Hebrew, so that can't be the reason. I guess it's what jekblom123 said, the A button is closer to the thumb and thus the primary button.
I never expected to enjoy listening to James and Mike just sit and talk about game controllers... You both truly are two of the best on UA-cam for gaming. Started with the satirical Nerd, only continue with the everyday guys who make this channel a blast to view!
The Model 2 Saturn pad (or the Japanese one) will always have a place for me as someone who plays fighting games, there really isn't any other pad that's better. Other than that, I think the Dual Shock 2 is the best all-around controller because it doesn't have those wonky analog triggers, never was a fan of those outside of racing games.
For me I never really liked the stiff pad of the PS controllers, but it works. Prefer the saturn pad to any pad out there, even the Xbox One Elite controller. I do hate the slippery triggers on the newer PS controllers too. They are not comfortable to hold down for racing games.
Right stick to control throttle sounds interesting. Dont think I played a game that did that before. Yea, Xbox finally got thier shit together with the Elite controller and thier regular Xbox One controllers. Even the later Xbox 360 controllers had pretty good pads. Not quite on par with saturn but definately beyond the PS D Pads. Probably somewhere between being a little better than a SNES pad and a little worse than the saturn one. Most controller makers seem to struggle with making a good D pad though. The Switch And Wii pro controllers have OK D pads but not even on the level of the SNES Pads, let alone saturn. Microsoft is at the top now for D Pads I would say, on modern consoles. Too bad they only have 3 exclusives that are worth a shit to me. Would like to see that change.
Huh? about the 7800 controllers, Mike said "we'll get to that" but then they don't: The pad type controller was the default in Europe (as well as Australia and New Zealand), while the stick type one was the default in America, for whatever reason. You could get the other type, but they were not ubiqutous. What is nice with them, that they also work with the 2600. Also, Mike didn't mention that you could unscrew that stick from the D-Pad, if you prefer it that way.
Gamecube controller will always be my favorite. It fit my hands like it was made specifically for me. They were also pretty tough and sturdy little controllers. I really like the newer xbox controllers too. PS controllers always felt a bit too 'thin' for me. I like having something to grip. That sounded wrong lol.
It's crazy, for YEARS now I thought I was nuts....I always thought/had a strong suspicion that the Wii controller would drain batteries even when it's completely 100% turned off. In fact, I was so sure of it that I actually started taking them out of the controller when I'm done playing. And have been doing so ever since. I was so happy to watch this video and hear you make the same comment about it (as I sit and stare at the batteries laying beside my Wii Controller on my entertainment system 😂)
N64 is still my favorite controller design. What does it for me is the handles themselves. It's the only controller where I never got hand cramps from holding it for too long.
I loved that you guys mentioned the Epyx 500xj. When no D-pad controller was out yet, this controller for my gaming system at the time, the c64, made games like the Last Ninja so much better to play.
Hey Mike, use a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol to clean off the battery gunk. It's the best for cleaning that. However, if the contacts are corroded, you can use vinegar to clean off the corrosion. I recommend you look up "The 8-Bit Guy" here on UA-cam, he has many videos about cleaning and fixing electronics that might help you keep your battery-powered stuff in good shape for years to come!
Best: Sony DS1/DS2/DS3 Sega Saturn controller (best D-pad) SNES controller Worst (of what I tried): XBox Duke controller N64 controller Sega Dreamcast controller
ragnakak considering it has a 40+ hour battery life that you really need for a portable system, its worth it on my book. Its only 15 more than other system controllers. But that's my opinion.
The TAC-2 is my favorite 9 pin controller for older systems and computers. The thing is indestructible. I also appreciate the limited movement of the stick. Really helps for extended gaming sessions. Overall, though, I'd say my favorite is the ASCII pad for the SNES. Just a perfect controller.
I think the WiiU pro controller was almost the best controller of all time and nothing would ever be able to surpass it; A fucking 80 hour battery life, solid connection, perfect size, ergonomic design, great feel, crisp vibration, great clicky (but not too clicky!) buttons, grippy and accurate analog sticks, but they fucked one thing up: the triggers. Why the fuck did they think it would be a good idea to make the triggers digital just like on the gamepad? Why not analog like every other controller that generation? The fuck... Other than that, I really liked the Gamecube, Dreamcast, and PS 2/3/4, and Xbox controllers are the Gold Standard, kinda like the WiiU controllers but not as good.
i find that people who do a thing second often make improvements. for example, the switch pro controller is an improvement on the wiiu pro. also the ps4 touchpad is a gimmicky mess and mostly gets in the way of gameplay and complicates menus.
Rab Burns Haven't had the pleasure of using a Switch pro controller, since I got fucked out of getting a Switch. Is the battery life still huge? And why is it overpriced? As for PS4, the touchpad works fine when used, it's not needed, but it works. My only gripe with the PS4 is the bluetooth is absolute shite. Audio starts cutting out randomly and connection will drop unless you're in front of the console no more than three feet away
Freaky Hacker Ps4 has bad BT, doesn't feel as nice, horrible battery life, and slippery analog sticks. Other than that it's great, use it on my PC and my PS4.
Sega Saturn was my favorite controller; just really loved it. Nintendo did their controllers like final fantasy; every time is a reboot even if they had a classic before
Not sure what they're on about with the Wiimotes. My batteries last for months at a time, though they do corrode pretty easy after too long. Also syncing is not a chore. Hit the red sync button on the controller's, hit the sync button on the console. Boom. What's so hard about that?! Do I have like a gen 2 Wii or something? Ps1 controller had no sticks originally. I think it was added around the time Metal Gear Solid was released because you couldn't play with just the D-Pad if I recall correctly. This must be an older recording because the Switch is already released and they said at the end "it's coming out"
Jerry Smith been years since I played an original PS1 outside of emulation. Didn't have the analog sticks until we bought MGS so I wasn't totally sure. Thanks for clarifying
I checked with my wife's mom, our Wii was bought only a few months after release here in the states. The controllers corrode a bit but nothing a bit of alcohol couldn't fix. My son's playing NSMB on it now. The batteries in it now were put in 3 months ago
I always thought that B comes before A because the A button is the rightmost one, which is the nearest to your thumb, so it's the main button (usually used for jumping, which is essential for 2D scrollers) and therefore called A, whereas the button to the left of A is the secondary button, usually to use objects, so it's called B.
James and Mike didn't point this out, but the PS1 didn't originally come with analog sticks, like the one they showed in the video. Sony added the Dual Analog Controller and DualShock controllers later on in the life of the system.
idol 4K 😀 I was going to point that out as well.
Yeah side by side next to a snes controller the ps1 controller isnt that bad, but once you really use it you find the dpad isnt substantial and the grips are so shallow, plus the l2 and r2 buttons are half size
I commented this an hour before you did and you have way more likes. I am jealous.
Also, PS1 controllers had internal part in the dpad that would break easily (diagonal bit - controller would still function OK with it broken).
Yeah, also, they didn't mention a key difference between the PS1 DualShock and the PS2 controllers: the latter actually have pressure sensitive face buttons. They were used in racing games sometimes.
Why *B* before *A* ?
My theory: The Nintendo was made in Japan, and in Japan, when they write vertically, the text goes from right to left.
Hence A < B.
I completely agree!
I actually came to the conclusion myself some time ago.
I don't know if it's true, but that to me seems the most logical explanation.
I think because, in relation to your thumb, A was closer, so it was named A.
The right to left conclusion is correct. I asked a Nintendo rep from Japan I met at an electronics show in Indianapolis 20 years ago and this is the explanation he gave me.
Also, traditionally, A is used for the main action and B for the secundary action.
e.g. in TLOZ A is the sword and B is the item, but Zelda II is a platformer so jumping is more important, so it goes to A and sword to B.
The Nintendo controller issue is obvious.
B - Button
A - Another Button
LOL
Mind blowing realization after 30 years. You are amazing.
N3rd Degree 😂
You read right to left?
Or A primary button, button B for secondary option
25:43 "This is Playstation 1, and this is Playstation 2"
*holds* *up* *Playstation* *3* *controller*
Ironically proving the point James made about the playstation controllers blending in
Lol I didn't notice somehow.
What about the pro controller for Wii ?
Jack Harrington great controller 👍
Thats the kinda friendship I need. "oh you dont have a working atari controller? take that one I have abunch of them"
Mike is a gent
Watching/listening to you two talk while working on something is so therapeutic.
If you guys ever do a follow up, it should be about "gimmick" controllers. Guitar hero, Resident Evil 4 ps2 chainsaw controller, Donkey kong jungle beat drums etc
My favorite gimmick controllers are the pieces of plastic you can attach to wii mote. They had a cooking set, musical instruments, and doctors tools for the trauma team games to name a few.
26:40 There's actually a chart: Nintendo innovates, Microsoft improves and Sony doesn't fix what isn't broken.
Except for the sixaxis which is a downgrade
two toggle sticks is unnecessary. smash t.v. does not need two toggle sticks. computer emulators use an xbox360 controller for a reason. because f*ck bill gates.
That wasn't even the bigger original Xbox controller that was the slimmed down version of the original
Yea the original is insane, the Xbox logo in the middle is so overly huge. Looks like it could be a model for a space craft
I didn't mind the original Xbox controller. I have big hands so it actually felt pretty good, I never had any issues with it.
ZachCraige yeah lol model s
Haha I was about to comment this same exact thing
Slimed? Yuck.
The original playstation didn't have the analog sticks till later.
Jesse Farrah it was called the duel shock version, good call.
There was the original model w/o sticks then the Dual Analog then the Dual Shock
Captain318
They should have just stuck with the dual analog design though... It's way more comfortable than the dual shock
There was also the Flight Stick.
Jesse Farrah yeah there was also a controller in between the dual shock and the original that not many people know about
You guys didn’t showcase the actual original bulky Xbox controller. They showed the revised version of it.
The face buttons were awful on that thing, in the end I cut the cord and used the head as a usb slot adapter.
Dustin Babb the duke controller is awesome I love the triggers the spring tension in them is perfect for shooters you can just lightly press it and it fires
Came here to say that. I had the dinner plate controller. For a week. Then I upgraded
Dude...the duke controller was bulky but...there was something awesome about holding that big slab of plastic in your hand.
They also showed the wrong PS1 controller. It didn't ship with joysticks at launch, just a d-pad and face-buttons.
5 years later and it's probably been said 100 times, but I think the B & A buttons are reversed because they read from right to left in Japan.
That's a pretty convincing reason. I'll consider this factual from now on.
You know what.... I think you're right. I never thought about that.
Ditto Imma use this from now on 👍 03/16/23.
This is now canon
I tought because b(efore) a(fter)
@@johnnydecomposizione3106 But that would mean a japanese company that originally made the system for the japanese market would have english terms in mind when developing the system, I kinda highly doubt that.
That James Rolfe guy looks like Angry Videogame Nerd. I wonder if they're related.
AngryChinaMan now that is a good joke at last
Nah. James seems like a calm dude. The nerd gets kind of mad sometimes.
Funny....
NOT!
Yeah. He also kinda looks like board james
@@Kiteman78 who looks like that guy who does the movie reviews.
The original Xbox controller was the Duke Controller. That compared to the Revised control is a huge difference.
I loved the "newer" one that they showed though
Was disappointed that they didn't know about the Duke, but then again they aren't known for being xbox/playstation nerds
@@BeamMonsterZeus Very true man there are plenty of other videos dedicated to just the duke as well
He looks like that guy from that Indie Sonic film back in 2013, the news reporter I think.
"S" Type or the Japanese controller is what they were called
I've learned so much about consoles from you guys, I'm more fascinated by the hardware sometimes than the games.
Totally agree! Just what I was thinking lol 😀.
buttplug controller. there is a reason its called JOY-stick
K4yr4h HMM
Good point
Hey guy, I'm mastering my joystick.
Dumb 🙄
Lol the S controller was too big? Hate to see you handle the Duke controller
lol I've never heard it called "the Duke"
JBadAss98Gameing: I think it depended on where you lived. I never heard anyone call it that back in the day, only saw it used online.
I almost through he was referring to the Duke but forgot about it. Like im the back of his mind, he was remember using the Duke. He mentioned it slimming down.
JBadAss98Gameing. Calm down, dude. Nobody said you were wrong. I had one back in the day, love the Xbox, have around 250 games and only just recently (past month) found out it was called the Duke. Stop acting like an ass.
JBadAss98Gameing
Used it lots of times back then, never heard that name. Didn't avoid XBox, didn't hate it, always played video games since the 80s, and my memory is great. We called it The Boat.
No matter how many times I see this video I love Mike's passion for controllers.
The purpose of the two plugs on the Advantage is so you can switch between being player 1 and player 2 on the same controller via a switch on the controller itself. You don't need to plug in both for the controller to function.
So you mean Mike gave a dumbasd response to James question? Whoa, that's new.
I wonder if it would work on smash tv?
"... Did I say X-cocks?"
"well you almost did... That's why I finished it for ya..."
I almost spit out my coffee
With the NES Joystick the two port outputs was for 2 players games where you would take turns, also you only need one plugged in. Great episode.
I don't see why they made a big deal about the NES advantage not staying still. There's really nothing bad you can say about it. Just put it on a table or a hard book on your lap. I just player Gryzor/ Contra and sat indian style on my couch with the advantage on a hard book and it doesn't go no where. It is the best NES controller ever!
If he would've taken two seconds to look at the controller he would've seen the player switch on it which answered his question...smfh
Cool. The last time I dusted off the ol' Advantage I got confused too. I wanted to hook it up to port #1 to play 2-player Guerilla War so I thought I needed the switch on "2." Then I had to guess which plug to use so I used both. Then I switched it back to "1" and voila. I yanked the plug from port #2 and just shrugged. Game on.
You should rename this video to "Mike talks about controllers and James says ´yeah', mhmm', and ´ok' "
He's like a low energy Lil Jon
i notice more and more that james doesnt know much about more modern consoles and consoles after the n64 / psx.
Best comment ever.
Like with every other video with Mike in it.
Dances In Undies He's like low energy Jeb
Wrong picture of the Xbox controller. You are looking for The Duke which is even bigger and was the actual original. I have huge hands so I liked it actually.
This video is so inaccurate
No you dont, you just have a small nob.
I like how these dudes are obviously good friends.
"Why is B before A?"
Maybe it's not. Japanese read right to left. Maybe it goes A then B, but from right to left.
Just a theory.
Probably not, although that was in my mind as well until I figured that Japanese and Chinese are only read from right to left if the characters are written/typed vertically while horizontal ones are read from left to right.
Glasses&Mouthplates sorry I didn't read and commented the same thing but on the snes it's x-y a-b ....... isn't it so kind of a vertical alphabet?
It's so you can practice reciting the alphabet backwards when you get pulled over for DUI, but only the B and A part.
Glasses&Mouthplates but on the controller it cannot be vertically so then it becomes right to left.
See, I looked it as some kind of instinctive preference that A is positive and B is negative if that makes sense. For instance when you play JRPGs on the SNES, A is always for choosing things and B is always cancel... or like, if you're someone old enough like me where you saw old commercials for products that compared to a leading brand, A was what they wanted you to buy and B was their inferior competitor... I don't know... I'm weird. ^^;
Traditional writing in Japan is right-to-left, that might explain the B A thing...
That's what I always thought but wondered if the Japanese versions had English letters (B, A, Start and Select) or something else.
Someone said "bad guys go from right to left". It always cracks me up ;D. What's more funny/sad is that some people actually believe that.
SharkOfTheRedSea nope, they're identical. =)
It's probably just because A is the primary action button, and B is usually held down to run. If you're holding down a button, it's easier to reach for another button to the right rather than the left because of the way your right thumb is jointed.
They also write up and down.
You confused the PS3 controller for the PS2 controller. The PS2 controller didn't have the PS button in the middle. Also the original PS1 controller had no sticks. Just a dpad. The one you have is the dualshock controller which was an updated version. They used an almost identical design for PS1, PS2, and PS3.
By PS3 controller, do you mean a Sixaxis or the Dual Shock?
Can talk about how similar they are, but if you grew up with Playstation/ps2, you certainly notice the difference in feel.
Is hard to tell without being able to read the DualShock 3 label
seen another video on youtube where some got that wrong too. Probably common mistake
you triggered the comments section lol
25:47 mike that's the ps3 controller
Also the original ps1 controller didn't have analog sticks I'm sure
@@VBplays01 There was another that came out with analog sticks later on, but the analog sticks were only made to use on a few games.
@Coen Jerry no
The analogue sticks dualshock ps1 controllers started in 1997. From 1994 to 1996 all models had the analog less controller
SILENCE CHECKMARK 🙄
It's funny how they think the Xbox S controller is a tank. The DUKE is a MOTHERFUCKIN TANK!
GreenSoap I was disappointed when they didn't show that one.
Long live the duke
The Angler by beeshu on the SNES was a tank before xbox was even a pantload in MS's diaper.
Apparently they are working on bringing back the Duke for Xbox One.
Not to mention I can't even hit the buttons because they are all tipped CCW and crammed together.
The NES Advantage had two plugs because it had a player 1/player 2 switch to let you take turns using it on 2-player games that played in turns.
I remembered that. I don't know how they didn't...
D. Barton i have no clue. The 1p 2p switch is right on it.
eh, long time ago. I found it more surprising they didn't like it because it doesn't fit well in your hands since it's made to sit on a table
If you have to plug in both my guess was it was a power supply issue. The 2 player switch sounds like an afterthought.
promontorium You didn't have to plug both in, in fact I rarely did. The 2 player switch was an intentional feature.
One thing I always liked was the microswitch controller on the Neo Geo Pocket Color. The Neo Geo CD has one too but always preferred the handheld version for some reason. Made a ton of their fighting games control so damn good
Get off the comments alpha. Make better videos you wanna be metal head
Yo AlphaOmegaSin , i know you like that Resident Evil 4 controller, for the gamecube. That shit is gruesome
Agreed, the NGPC is very comfortable to hold and play. Just one more reason why it’s such a great handheld console.
Devin Asselin appears to have his head delvin' ass
AlphaOmegaSin best handheld pad ever, still got mine with capcom vs snk.👌🏾
25:50 That "PS2" controller is a PS3 controller, hence the PS button in the middle. Also, the original PS1 controllers had no joysticks.
Was looking for this comment. My ps1 came with just a d pad. The analogue sticks came later in its life
Nintendo controllers are all about innovation
Playstation controllers are all about consistency
Neither one is bad, it's just all about preference
never liked sonys controllers or nitendos and i hated the og xbox controller and the new xbox one controller but to me the 360's was damn near perfect ..wish more looked felt and were shaped like that..it was really appealing especially the white one with the different colored buttons..just really awesome besides the fact the batteries would chrome the ports and make it harder to play over the years so I had to buy new ones which also barely worked smdh ...
Microsoft likes to combine the 2 and form something new and ripoff both at the same time..lol...
I like pretty much every dualshoc controller except the dualshock 4.
Very well put! 👌
@@razkable solo you basically hated every single controller then besides the 360?
"Spin that knob James!"
Can we get that on a T-Shirt?
SILENCE CHECKMARK 🙄
These discussion videos are great
so where is Robo Rob?
Intimidation fanboy
Minus the fact that they got so much wrong about the controllers in this video.... They must not have been very big Playstation fans. Shame, as the Xbox sucks ass compared to the Playstation systems.
Intimidation yea mike says this video could go on for 10 hours... Like we dont want that
I think they stink
In my opinion nothing beats the Sega Saturn model 2 controller.
It's the sexiest of all controllers. The Saturn 3D controller would also have been interesting to see discussed.
I think the Mega Drive 6-button controller is the best for arcade beatem-ups.
I agree
I totally agree. It's the best controller for fighting games in my opinion.
Cant believe they didnt mention the Saturn controllers! Say what you will about the system, but its Japanese library and its controller is the best thing about it lol. Its basically the exact version of the 6 button Genesis controller he was talking about!
"This is a PlayStation 1, and this is a PlayStation 2" *holds up a PlayStation 3 controller*
Mike I noticed the triggers.
Yeah, Playstation really wasn't their thing.
To be fair, once the Dual Shock came along, there wasn't much difference until the PS4...
The N64 midsection is basically the Wii Nunchuck. I think it's a comfortable design and the N64 is obviously designed for different games/playstyles. Very innovative in my opinion.
I think the reason there are two plugs on the NES Advantage is because you could use it as both player 1 and 2
Absolutely.
Dog Bone NES,SNES, PS,and GameCube controller are legend...
That Atari one looked like a Dog Boner
DUDE_84 how would you know what a dog boner looks like?
FoxHawkPvP it looks like lipstick dogs get excited alot
There's a lot you could (and should) have said about the wiimote:
1. There was a speaker in it, which was pretty awesome for certain situations. E.g. in FPS games the gun sound would come from the wiimote. Or if the game had a radio that you had to pick up and listen to, it would come from your wiimote not from the TV.
2. The external controller port was a great idea on the wiimote, allowing you to plug in an auxiliary controller like the nunchuck without it needing to have another Bluetooth radio and batteries.
3. There were heaps of battery packs available for the Wii, allowing you to dock your wiimote when you're not playing it and then it will stay charged.
4. You only needed to sync the wiimote once. Once synced, in order to turn it on you only need to press A.
5. The classic controller (not the Pro Controller you showed). I found it very comfortable.
No mention of the awesome Dreamcast VMU? That thing was a controller on its own with a screen and you stick it in the controller!
what james says doesnt mean shit. Its not like he sets the standard for what is retro and whats not. 99 was almost 20 years ago.
dreamcast knew it was game over because they overlooked a second analog for camera movement
B comes before A because in Japan you read from right to left
Thats what i always thought too but....look at Sega controllers....
You stole my comment lol
They dont read right to left....
I also don't know how to read Japanese but I only knew manga is scanned right to left but the words go left to right thats what made me think of this answer.
This is honestly such a relaxing, asmr-like vid for me,
i've always found myself coming back to it as a comfy break
Sure ya have, bot 🙄 🙄🙄
To the Wii's credit, the WiiMote and nunchuk felt pretty good together.
The wii's nunchuck is pretty much exactly the middle part of the n64's controller!
You showed the xbox type s controller not the original
Thank you! Where is the Duke?
the same pit as all the ET games.
I know right! They think that one is too big and it's the small version!
Thank you! I remember that brick. Actually like the S version, at least until the 360 version came along, but the OG Xbox controller was a fucking beast!
Always felt the GC controller was too small. Especially the third party ones.
Wii controllers were what got me into rechargeable batteries. I found a great deal with 8 Duracell with the intelligent charger for $10, lasted me over 7 years
same with me and the XBOX 360 controllers, got tired having to constantly buy batteries so i got the rehargeable battery pack
Damn it Mike, that "PS2 controller" in your hand is really a PS3 controller.
The GC controller was fine on its own, but once I bought two Wavebirds I never looked back! Another good one you didn't mention was the Wii Classic Controller Pro - both worked great for Homebr....I mean Virtual Console games!
I sure looked back when I noticed the lag...it's not much but it's definitely noticeable.
I liked my wavebirds, wireless was so nice.
"This is a PS2 controller" while holding a PS3 controller
Yep
also the PS button on the front
The basic design is still similar enough for showcasing purposes.
I mean since Sony added the joysticks, the button layout and shape hasn't changed. Okay, they added a home button. And on the PS4 the touch pad button. Aside from those two things, not much.
They’re essentially the same
The way James wraps the cords around the controllers drives me absolutely mad! Bro leave some slack at the controller/cord connection point please for the love of Rolfe!
My mom would have mad at me
When the NES came out, the biggest deal to me was the pause button. Never before were we able to take a break from games. A huge game changer that no one talks about.
then came the souls series
The Intellevision had that in 1979.
ressljs
Oh, really? I used to play it at my cousin's house (we had any Atari), but I don't remember that feature.
I had to look it up because I can remember pausing games when I was at my uncle's house, and he's who had an Intellevision. You had to press 1 and 9 on the keypad to pause, so it was probably an afterthought. The Atari 5200 (1982) had an actual pause button on the controllers.
Wasnt pause on the console for atari
Great video. You guys made a mistake with the xbox controller though, that's actually the S version that's smaller than the original "Duke" version. Personally the Xbox 360 controller was great and the Xbone version is even better, it's my favorite controller
Arbiter099 except for the fact it uses batteries rather than charging
I've always liked good ol double As, just a quick pop and swap no charging to mess with. It also has a microusb port at the top for use as a wired controller. The biggest pro for me is how ergonomic it is, melts right into my hands. The only major fuckup was the proprietary jack for audio but they fixed that on later models.
Arbiter099 I definitely think that the latest game controllers should always be the best ones, after so many generations if seeing what was done right and wrong, it's kind of hard to fuck it up.
360 I liked save for the Dpad. Though it was trash. XBone controller I like save for the awful Bumpers. Stick the 360 Bumpers on the XBone and you got the perfect controller IMO
But there was a smaller version than that even. Was actual xbox. So you semi wrong and right.
The joystick on my N64 controller got warn out by Super Mario 64.
Get SteelSticks64.
You mean Mario party
I've never heard someone call the S controller "too big". I'm just going to assume they thought they were holding up a Duke, because the S controller was just perfection, probably my favorite controller. I do however agree with Mike as far as the 360 controller is concerned, much better than the Xbone controller for me.
Mike essentially: "I wanna be able to throw my controller around in frustration, but it should not break if i do that." Love it ^^
Funny that Mike ends on talking about the Wii U Gamecube controller adapter (which only worked for Smash Bros. on the Wii U unless you used a third party one) but that official Nintendo Wii U Gamecube controller adapter now works on the Nintendo Switch, allowing you to use a Gamecube controller with any Switch game (granted you're missing a couple buttons, so not all games will work fully)
Breeman AMV not anymore, it got patched
Connor Bell no, it got patched for third party gamecube adapters. The official Nintendo one still works on 4.0.1. I just tested it with two wavebirds.
Holy crap I would really like one of those now! Nintendo is really forward and backward thinking at the same time. Their most clumsy yet endearing trait IMO.
That Adam West Batman controller is tremendous
Curt
Nobody messes with Adam We...'s controller!
That episode is awesome.
I want his cat launcher...
Josh Kane
😂 "Paul, what a ridiculous name for a cat!"
To this day, my favorite controllers come from the Gamecube. They just knocked it out of the park in design etc. If I could use a Wavebird controller on my Xbox/PS4 I'd be in heaven :-D
Nah,the Xbox controllers are better,these are facts.
No vibration tho
@@drizztdourden666 No those aren't facts because the PS4 & NGC controllers are superior to both the 360 & Xbone controllers and that's a fact.
Gamecube and 360 were always my favorites. Those two felt perfect
It's like, JEEZ, there's four buttons right on front of the controller! BUT THAT'S NOT ENOUGH TO WORK WITH?! Instead, they have to, like, program it, like, all into like, weird kinda crazy button combinations and shit?! It's like, what were they thinking?!
Up is jump, select is for the grappling hook! Select should just be part of the menus or something, not a basic function you have to do in order to beat the game!
Pascal in order to *play* the game 😎
AVGN episode on controllers maybe?
Dreamcast controller has two big slots on the front for memory card/VMU, where exactly were they supposed to have the cord?
You should do a part two for others, like the NES Max controller for instance.
Never knew Deadpool was a retro gaming enthusiast.
Somehow it makes perfect sense that he would be
The NES Advantage was my favorite controller ever. Definitely meant to play on the floor or a table- not in your lap. It was very well constructed. Another thing that was cool about it was that you could twist off the joystick knob and replace it with another type of knob if you could find one compatible with it.
The NES Advantage was meant to be placed on your lap or on a flat surface. I don’t think anyone was holding it in their hands like a regular NES pad.
When you replace batteries, make sure all the batteries are new and of the same brand from the same package, i noticed an energizer mixed with a duracell, that can make the batteries more likely to leak
Yeah, the differing charges will cause the stronger battery to try and charge the other. Since they're non-chargeable it causes the battery that attempts to charge to leak. That and if you're not going to use them for a while just remove the batteries, you can keep it with the controller as long as they're not inside, just as a precaution.
Does make me wonder if chargeables have that problem as well since it's still probably not the way they like to be charged.
Alot of battery powered electronics warn you not to mix batteries because they usually cause leakage.
lander77477, thx for reminding us. Despite all the manufacturer's warning, most of us neglect that.
Thanks TwistedD85, i never knew that until now.
I always thought this "don't mix batteries" stuff was just a marketing ploy, because it never made sense to me.
however, your explanation clears it up :)
yeah, because the primary problem is leakage of fluids from inside the battery
(which in turn cause corrosion as a secondary problem)
also that stuff can be pretty toxic, so make sure to wash your hands thoroughly after dealing with something like that.
It's frustrating that no one else ever adopted the big A button design of gamecube. Not even Nintendo. It's so easy to roll your thumb slightly to the other three buttons while holding A
Speak for yourself. I hated the big A button and how the other face buttons were placed. I also hated how the Y and X buttons had a weird shape to them.
Just curious, what game(s) are referring to where you roll your thumb around? I can't think of any off-hand.
Omg I just remembered friggin Mario kart. What a dingus
Crow Migration games nowadays mostly rely on the triggers and not the face buttons, and if they do they use the left most one
This is why it’s awkward to play F-Zero emulated with an xbox layout controller. You have to hold a to accelerate, and press y to boost, but with a modern controller layout, you can’t hit A and Y without accidentally pressing X or B
I've always had a fondness for the GameCube controller, even when I was a kid I recognized how good it was
I'm totally down for a part 2/ten hr video on controllers!
why the buttons are B and A instead of A and B, because japanese reads from right to left maybe, like in comics, where they start from upper right to bottom left, so A right and B left maybe???
its because A was pressed more often than B...
That was my guess too!
It is not a maybe it is a fact. That is exactly the reason.
noooooice
Japanese is not read from right to left, unlike languages like Arab and Hebrew, so that can't be the reason. I guess it's what jekblom123 said, the A button is closer to the thumb and thus the primary button.
The point of the Advantage taking up two ports, is to allow you to switch between them during gamplay. The switch on top does that
I never expected to enjoy listening to James and Mike just sit and talk about game controllers... You both truly are two of the best on UA-cam for gaming. Started with the satirical Nerd, only continue with the everyday guys who make this channel a blast to view!
The Model 2 Saturn pad (or the Japanese one) will always have a place for me as someone who plays fighting games, there really isn't any other pad that's better. Other than that, I think the Dual Shock 2 is the best all-around controller because it doesn't have those wonky analog triggers, never was a fan of those outside of racing games.
karnovrpg The best d-pad ever made.
For me I never really liked the stiff pad of the PS controllers, but it works. Prefer the saturn pad to any pad out there, even the Xbox One Elite controller.
I do hate the slippery triggers on the newer PS controllers too. They are not comfortable to hold down for racing games.
There were even racing games that used the right stick to control throttle.
It's only sad that noone bothers with building a good dpad anymore.
Right stick to control throttle sounds interesting. Dont think I played a game that did that before. Yea, Xbox finally got thier shit together with the Elite controller and thier regular Xbox One controllers. Even the later Xbox 360 controllers had pretty good pads. Not quite on par with saturn but definately beyond the PS D Pads. Probably somewhere between being a little better than a SNES pad and a little worse than the saturn one. Most controller makers seem to struggle with making a good D pad though. The Switch And Wii pro controllers have OK D pads but not even on the level of the SNES Pads, let alone saturn. Microsoft is at the top now for D Pads I would say, on modern consoles. Too bad they only have 3 exclusives that are worth a shit to me. Would like to see that change.
TheConsole Killer PS4 controller is a good advancement of the PS2 regarding analog sticks
Just imagine Mike is reviewing the joysticks based on buttpluggery
Every time I read his name, my brain keeps reading "Mike Matel", like the company.
No comment on the 6 button Genesis controller having a *vastly* improved d-pad over the original?
The 2nd generation of sega saturn controller was great, one of my favorite. The best of all the time to me still the 360 controller.
Except that fucking d-pad. Try playing any game that requires precision with d-pad with 360 controller.
Huh?
about the 7800 controllers, Mike said "we'll get to that" but then they don't:
The pad type controller was the default in Europe (as well as Australia and New Zealand), while the stick type one was the default in America, for whatever reason. You could get the other type, but they were not ubiqutous.
What is nice with them, that they also work with the 2600.
Also, Mike didn't mention that you could unscrew that stick from the D-Pad, if you prefer it that way.
James also didn't mention that in his CD-i video. I guess he never knew...
Gamecube controller will always be my favorite. It fit my hands like it was made specifically for me. They were also pretty tough and sturdy little controllers. I really like the newer xbox controllers too. PS controllers always felt a bit too 'thin' for me. I like having something to grip. That sounded wrong lol.
It's crazy, for YEARS now I thought I was nuts....I always thought/had a strong suspicion that the Wii controller would drain batteries even when it's completely 100% turned off. In fact, I was so sure of it that I actually started taking them out of the controller when I'm done playing. And have been doing so ever since. I was so happy to watch this video and hear you make the same comment about it (as I sit and stare at the batteries laying beside my Wii Controller on my entertainment system 😂)
I actually really liked the dreamcast controller
B isn't before A. Keep in mind, these controllers are designed in Japan, where you read right to left. It only seems reversed to us Westerners.
N64 is still my favorite controller design. What does it for me is the handles themselves. It's the only controller where I never got hand cramps from holding it for too long.
The grooves in the analogue stick used to hurt my thumb after a couple of hours.
along with the analog stick breaking easily, mine jiggles around from mario party abuse @@townsjim
I loved that you guys mentioned the Epyx 500xj. When no D-pad controller was out yet, this controller for my gaming system at the time, the c64, made games like the Last Ninja so much better to play.
Hey Mike, use a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol to clean off the battery gunk. It's the best for cleaning that.
However, if the contacts are corroded, you can use vinegar to clean off the corrosion. I recommend you look up "The 8-Bit Guy" here on UA-cam, he has many videos about cleaning and fixing electronics that might help you keep your battery-powered stuff in good shape for years to come!
No NES Max? That one was the best.
Best:
Sony DS1/DS2/DS3
Sega Saturn controller (best D-pad)
SNES controller
Worst (of what I tried):
XBox Duke controller
N64 controller
Sega Dreamcast controller
agreed
I think Dreamcast controller is pretty good, at least I can't remember any problems using it.
Man, I really miss the more casual Cinemassacre videos like this.
It felt more natural than the new neighbor nerds
The switch pro controller is pretty great
It should be considering how much it costs
ragnakak considering it has a 40+ hour battery life that you really need for a portable system, its worth it on my book. Its only 15 more than other system controllers. But that's my opinion.
Really? I considered getting it
It's a blatant rip-off of the XboxOne controller.
The shape is exactly the same.
Zion Ind. The triggers aren't great but I still love it.
The TAC-2 is my favorite 9 pin controller for older systems and computers. The thing is indestructible. I also appreciate the limited movement of the stick. Really helps for extended gaming sessions. Overall, though, I'd say my favorite is the ASCII pad for the SNES. Just a perfect controller.
I very much agree with the TAC-2. Superb build quality, ergonomics and accuracy.
Dorelaxen I have broke a Tac-2, wasn't even mine.
Just like how manga and japan novel was presented, you read the content from right to left, hence the BA button layout.
Good try but nah. They said it themselves with the snes one. He holds the y and hits a same time. Same concept with the nes but b is y.
You either read left to right like normal for us westerners or Top to Bottom, right. Never just horizontally right to left.
"This is Playstation 1" - *shows a dualshock controller from later in the PS1's lifespan*. "This is Playstation 2" - *shows a PS3 controller*.
Finally, someone who agrees that the SNES controller is the best
I think the WiiU pro controller was almost the best controller of all time and nothing would ever be able to surpass it; A fucking 80 hour battery life, solid connection, perfect size, ergonomic design, great feel, crisp vibration, great clicky (but not too clicky!) buttons, grippy and accurate analog sticks, but they fucked one thing up: the triggers. Why the fuck did they think it would be a good idea to make the triggers digital just like on the gamepad? Why not analog like every other controller that generation? The fuck...
Other than that, I really liked the Gamecube, Dreamcast, and PS 2/3/4, and Xbox controllers are the Gold Standard, kinda like the WiiU controllers but not as good.
The ps4 does all this AND has the touch pad. Does it all better.
i find that people who do a thing second often make improvements. for example, the switch pro controller is an improvement on the wiiu pro. also the ps4 touchpad is a gimmicky mess and mostly gets in the way of gameplay and complicates menus.
Freaky Hacker The PS4 controller is too small for me.
Rab Burns Haven't had the pleasure of using a Switch pro controller, since I got fucked out of getting a Switch. Is the battery life still huge? And why is it overpriced? As for PS4, the touchpad works fine when used, it's not needed, but it works. My only gripe with the PS4 is the bluetooth is absolute shite. Audio starts cutting out randomly and connection will drop unless you're in front of the console no more than three feet away
Freaky Hacker Ps4 has bad BT, doesn't feel as nice, horrible battery life, and slippery analog sticks. Other than that it's great, use it on my PC and my PS4.
When was this recorded? Sounds like the Switch wasn't even out yet.
feelgood99 last year.
Sega Saturn was my favorite controller; just really loved it. Nintendo did their controllers like final fantasy; every time is a reboot even if they had a classic before
Not sure what they're on about with the Wiimotes. My batteries last for months at a time, though they do corrode pretty easy after too long. Also syncing is not a chore. Hit the red sync button on the controller's, hit the sync button on the console. Boom. What's so hard about that?! Do I have like a gen 2 Wii or something?
Ps1 controller had no sticks originally. I think it was added around the time Metal Gear Solid was released because you couldn't play with just the D-Pad if I recall correctly.
This must be an older recording because the Switch is already released and they said at the end "it's coming out"
Jerry Smith been years since I played an original PS1 outside of emulation. Didn't have the analog sticks until we bought MGS so I wasn't totally sure. Thanks for clarifying
i'm from europe and the batteries corroded all the time.
I checked with my wife's mom, our Wii was bought only a few months after release here in the states. The controllers corrode a bit but nothing a bit of alcohol couldn't fix. My son's playing NSMB on it now. The batteries in it now were put in 3 months ago
Yeah but the "Wii U gamecube controller adapter" is compatibile with only one game from what Ive heard :D
TheHeadbite that is true. Only works with Smash bros
Works with Nintendont, though. My Wii U is essentially a Gamecube now.
B&A may be flipped because the Japanese read right to left.
Exactly what I was about to write! Makes complete sense!
They read left to right
@@JP-pq9xi that is mostly false, they read things right to left, top to bottom. They read words left to right.
I always thought that B comes before A because the A button is the rightmost one, which is the nearest to your thumb, so it's the main button (usually used for jumping, which is essential for 2D scrollers) and therefore called A, whereas the button to the left of A is the secondary button, usually to use objects, so it's called B.