RPG Retro Review: DA2 Temple of the Frog
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 січ 2021
- This week I continue my exploration into the DA Series of adventure modules.
Temple of the Frog PDF:www.drivethrurpg.com/product/...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to the Temple of the Frog:archive.wizards.com/default.as...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Teespring Store Ye Old School Shop: yeoldeschoolshoppe.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
archive.wizards.com/default.as...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Patreon Page: / captcorajus
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PayPal Tipjar: www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Facebook: Dungeons and Dragons RPG Reviews: / rpgretroreviews
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
captcorajus on Twitter: / captcorajus
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
captcorajus on tumblr: www.tumblr.com/blog/captcorajus
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contact me: captcorajus@gmail.com - Ігри
This was the module that convinced me never to read boxed text at the table ever again.
Good decision. lol
Who in the world downvotes these videos? Cpt is the best retro rpg channel out there.
I know there is literally nothing wrong or offensive in them just a nice guy giving his opinion.
People down vote just because they can, it is a troll thing.
Because they still have PTSD from some of the modules and the mere sight of them drives them into a rage.
Temple of the Frog. Sounds like a truly Ribbeting adventure...I'll see myself out.
dude, that was awesome. how long have you been waiting to use that line??
@@professor4202 Quite a while, though I didn't think I'd be using it here :D
Super frogs with fangs...noish.
That joke makes me green with envy.
Excuse me sir, may I see your dad license?
That cover is early D&D summed up in one image. Monsters, stock adventurers, and incongruous but cool lasers.
Anyone who gripes about the presence of SF elements to D&D doesn't know what they're talking about. They were there from the very beginning.
Yeah, its a GREAT cover.
I have the DA Blackmoor modules and love them.
I also have just recently gotten Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
My plan is to take Expedition, along with Temple of the Frog and City of the Gods and merge them with Gamma World 3rd edition into a supergame. ;)
Can't overlook that fact that D&D stablemate Empire of the Petal Throne was hugely influential on OD&D (and vice versa, of course) and EPT was always explicitly a scifi (or at least scifan) setting, chock full of aliens and might-as-well-be-magic tech relics.
I guess it depends on the nature of the gripe. Complaining that SF doesn't belong in D&D is certainly an ill-informed complaint. But I think most people say that when they really mean that it's something that they personally don't enjoy in a fantasy RPG, which is fine for setting the tone of the games they play in, but gets tiresome when that turns into telling other people they are doing D&D wrong.
...oh and 1st Edition AD&D Psionics.
Always look forward to watching your videos.
I always Like before the video even starts, because I already know it's going to be top quality.
Wow.. thank you!!
@@captcorajus No worries man, you're old school like me and we have lots of the same stuff.
Ahhh, half-baked ideas and mcguffins, the hallmarks of early D&D. I do love learning that some of these classics are being revamped for todays more sophisticated/demanding RPG audience, it's very satisfying
Nice review. Never actually read that one, although it's legend.
Hello CaptCorajus, excellent video! Believe it or not. I just got my Temple of the Frog coffee mug. I had it made at Vistaprint online. Used the cover art from the 1986 module, writen on one-side Temple of the Frog other side has 50th anniversary 1975-2025. I know, I'm a nerd! The star trek episode thing I just read about that. I could talk about this video for hours but I will spare you my Grandpa Simpson rambling for another day.
Thanks CaptCorajus & have a wonderful day.
I played in this , and it was one of the best D&D games I ever experienced. There was no time travel plot, no heavy intro, and no long reading of boxed text. No princess. We were hired to retrieve what we thought was a "wand". We infiltrated the Temple, snuck around, and accomplished the mission. There was very little combat, this is mainly a stealth adventure. Mapping was quite difficult, there was a lot of huddling over the map in dark corners. I don't own a copy, and never knew about all the fluff and background text. Skip all that, and get straight to the adventure!
Exactly. You had a great DM who took the material and made it his own.
The player who originally controlled Stephen the Rock when he was a pc in Dave Arneson's campaign was the highlight of the Secrets of Blackmoor movie for me. He was this immaculately dressed, articulate little old man and I hear he's quite a competitive wargamer to this day. I just love the stories behind some of these places and characters. When a potential big bad in a module is a legacy player character from the seventies that just blows my mind.
Absolutely!
Who wants to play an evil cleric in this adventure so they can say 'Hell comes to Frogtown!'
There soooo many Frog jokes to go with this adventure no doubt. lol
If ya smell
What the rock
Is cooking.
Its frogs . He is cooking frogs
Nice! Great/horrible B movie.
PURE METAL!!!!
The name itself will destroy your eardrums!!!
FYI: Cartographer Dennis Kauth passed away in 2013.
Part Historical Documentary, Part Review,
ALL CHILL
Thanks Cappy, I always find your videos just as relaxing as informative,
HOLYCRAP! I am too stoned for this. I have had this module for 20 something years, never read it. Always wondered how a character had a laser rifle!
When I first read this as a teenager I was scratching my head wondering if it was a science fiction or fantasy. I had found my uncle’s DND stuff in his storage. Blackmoor and the chainmail books were my intro into DND.
Q:Is Blackmoor sci fi or fantasy?
A: Yes
I can just watch episode after episode while I work with this show on in the background, it’s awesome.
Wow.. thank you!
This is one of the last Modules I ever bought along with the Alice in Wonderland Modules. EX1 Dungeonland and the Land of the Magic Mirror. I planned to incorporate this in my Lizard Man - BullyWugs campaign world. We never got to this one. I had them working through a Cult of the Reptiles god, Salt Marsh, Caverns of Thracia, Bullywugs in the Dwellers of the Forbidden City, Tegel Manor (with a frog Temple ), Isle of Dread, Tomb of the Lizard King , where they fight a vampiric Jim Morrisson, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks and finally to the Temple of the Frog. Ambitious and I believe we had all returned to the world to work and have families long before we got halfway through this roster
The Temple of the Frog was extremely complex and I wonder how our hack and slash party would have fared here. I never got the chance to DM it. I did have a Time travel route planned from Dwellers of the Forbidden City to the world where the Temple of the Frog existed. I will always wonder how playable it would be.
I've always heard of this module but never knew much about it. As always, thanks for a great video.
Have you ever considered doing reviews for some of the absolutely fantastic modules that used to pop up in Dragon magazine back in the day? There were some genuine classics there, and it always felt like an extra bonus when you grabbed the new issue off the rack and saw that it had a module included!
That's a great idea. Might be the basis for a series of of videos highlighting such mini modules.
Watching Capt Corajus is becoming contagious!
binge watching all these retro rpg videos. so glad to have discovered this channel. really enjoy the commentary and background info!
Awww, thanks!! Glad you're enjoying!😀
Players: Omg, why did they put sci-fi in D&D?
Also Players: *MIND FLAYERS ARE SO COOL!*
I was expecting this one.
the good old times when D&D didnt have the same limitations we found today.
Perfect timing! I've been doing an in depth study of "arnesonian" d&d and I find this particular adventure to be the most interesting. This version is much easier to navigate than the blackmoor version.
Thanks Cap!
Love your channel
Ive actually been doing the same! I wish this was easier to do though. I'd really kill to see anymore of his Blackmoor notes
The best of the Blackmoor modules and a top 5 overall B/X module IMHO.
Wastri the Hopping Prophet!!!! FLEE! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!!!
Mr Welch explains on a video that time travelers from Blackmoor coming to modern Mystara are usually there to find out what caused the Great Rain of Fire that destroyed the Blackmoor empire 3000 years ago on the Mystara timeline. And don't shush me about spoilers, that spoiler tag has long since fallen off!
Not that time of Blackmoor, the GROF was still 1,000 years off. Later ones would seek out the answers but there are no answers to be found. The explosion destroyed everything, including the knowledge of how, why and when it happened. And because of the time of chaos afterward, we don't even know the where anymore.
Welch also has a top shelf channel. A+
love your reviews
Fred Funk's campaign had a lot of similarities to this. His campaign was all about a race of dog people who crash landed on the planet, found out about magic, learned it, mastered it and eventually came to rule the world.
14:20 I think those complex gamma world charts can have great value in modeling difficult research into magic or history. So maybe a player wants to figure something out...a bit of history, look for the location of something, learn a new spell, craft a magic item, whatever...You set a nominal amount of time each roll represents in downtime, say one day per roll. they keep going with the research until they want to quit or it comes to a conclusion (fail or success) ... to make it more interesting, make it cost something say a nominal amount of gold per day to do that research. could be fun!!! I love those charts!!!!
I wouldn't say I 'love them' but I think they can be fun, if the DM takes each step and narrates what each one represents. For the right group of players and the right DM its an absolute blast.
Not everyone is up to the task of that level of detail, so its really a matter of taste. Temple of the Frog is very much a pulp action story, and trying to plod through the charts MIGHT take a brake in the action when ultimate its time to whip out a blaster and do some series damage. lol
I really enjoyed the character "Old Sly Boots" in this adventure.
Good video, crappy module!😂 What a hot mess! Thanks for the laugh.
This is EXACTLY what I wanted to watch
I like to know more of their origin. Did they escape from a rift in space? Heard maybe the Egg of coot pulled them into that world
Informative and useful. Very fair as well. Thank you.
Very helpful. Thank you.
I mainly used the maps and the killer frogs when I DM'd this module since the Blackmoor part didn't fit the campaign and setting. Nonetheless it was very enjoyable and it certainly holds a lot of flavour.
It’s pretty clear why DA’s return to TSR was so short lived
Yeah. I'm saving my comments on this as I work to the final two modules.
yep. these modules are terrible.
Right. Regardless of how you might feel about Gary's personal life, behavior, etc, he generated an absolute TON of material for the game personally, some of which was great, some not so much. Arneson just didn't contribute nearly as much over time, and it didn't match in quality.
We can acknowledge that Dave may have gotten short shrift for some time regarding his importance in developing the overall initial concepts while understanding that he wasn't that big a part of what made the game great after that.
I have wondered about these Dave Arneson modules for a long time. Thanks for reviewing them. He did have a thing for mixing scifi and fantasy, didn't he? I like the use of befriendable NPCs. Great way to encourage player engagement & "role-playing".
Oh boy. This seems to be interesting because of the history of the setting, but it does not appear to be my cup of tea to put it mildly. Have you ever considered doing a review of Adventures Dark and Deep? Regardless, I love your reviews and fervently await your next installment!
I can see where this module and other classic D&D modules influenced PC games like the Might & Magic series and Wizardry, particularly Wizardry 7 & 8....
Back when DnD and Gamma World were played by the same few guys...
Love this stuff. I can't understand why people don't adapt some of these things to games like Skyrim.
Lol I have a mint copy with black moor in my filing cabinet.. cost me 50p absolutely mint...
People are money mad these days
I'm curious what role the immortal Stodos plays, if any. I'll have to pick this up.
Another great review Captain. With all these modules for this series, is there a reason we even need the time travel. Can't we just have the players start in the Blackmoor era and work through the campaign? That would solve a lot of these timey wimey problems.
You are absolutely correct, and it highlights the problems with the commercial aspects of module design in that each module must simultaneously be 'stand alone' and part of an ongoing series. So if you'd only purchased 'Temple of the Frog' and not played out 'Adventures and Blackmoor' you can just 'jump right in' to play out the scenario in the module. Thus, each of the DA modules must be linked to each in the series but also be playable on its own.
This created the bookend annoyance in each module of getting the players to the past and then allowing for a way to get them BACK to the future so the DM can continue with their own campaign. Thus each module in the series must begin and end with this clumsy non-sense.
I used to own this module but after 2 moves I can't find it.
I think you might need to revisit your scale. I think the minimum I've seen you give out is a 14, which is Good. However, it is also the average score you give out, meaning it should be Average. Or perhaps you need to do a video on what Average looks like compared to Good. I mean, the time travel Maguffin and the Walls of Text(tm) in this module are significant obstacles to overcome. That said, I do really enjoy your videos, this one included.
Well, the AVERAGE I give is not an indication of what AVERAGE. I'm frequently reviewing GOOD to Great modules, and avoiding the stinkers... unless there's a good reason to review them. That's going to skew MY personal average. I think you'll see what I mean in my next two reviews. :)
I have always been a bigger Blackmoor fan than Greyhawk. Not that I don't like Greyhawk just a bigger fan of Blackmoor.
SKARDAS MIRROR
Hey Captain what is your go to rule set to run games now days?
ah, my kingdom for page 34
dun dun dun dunn duh duhhhhhh
=
awesomeness forthcoming
4th woot!!!
Can you do a review for 5 torches deep please?
I keep getting requests for it, but to be honest, I have it, and to put it bluntly I'm not a fan. As of right now, I just don't see it coming up on my to do list. :)
Briefly, however, the core concept is that it 'allegedly' takes the complex aspects of 5E and 'simplifies' them and gives them an 'old school feel'. Certainly, their idea of 'simplifying' is a lot different than mine. They just seemed to transpose one complexity from another.
The game is suppose to still require the 5E rules set, and I found it muddled as to exactly 'where the line is.' As such, its just not something i would really enjoy reviewing.
In the end however, it doesn't actually SOLVE the issues with 5E it purports to solve.
@@captcorajus that sounds like a review I would enjoy Cap! Brutally honest. If memory serves, wasn't it touted as having the simplicity of the basic d&d system while implementing the streamlining of 5E?
Sounds like it would be in your wheelhouse. Plus, I enjoy when you critique, rate and pass on these new school challengers to old school greatness.
Anyway, if timetravel is wobbly wobbly and creates confusion, got to study the movie Primer XD
My point there was that time travel is a big deal, and not something to be used casually... Dr. Who is a Timelord, so he's an exception... but the characters here have no particular 'training' in the pitfalls of time travel. They're just blundering through it with no apparent ill effects because the story demands it. Its not 'confusing', its clumsy and inelegant storytelling. :)
Is anyone so sure that a 'flaming sword' in D&D isn't really a light saber, I mean seen through the lens of our present day monkey brains?
Its a good thought with one exception. Dispel Magic. Technology can't be dispelled, and while tech requires a limited power source, it does offer some advantage in a magic based world. :)
@@captcorajus A DM could have a little fun with the players when he doesn't flat out say what the modern thing is they have found, but describes it as a medieval person would perceive it. As a side note, the AD&D module S3 ETTBP, you probably know, has an 'ignorance simulator' flow chart that the player goes through rolling a d10. This can be used to dispel metagaming. That being said, if a magical flaming sword could be lighted by calling out the swords name, isn't that similar to a futuristic technology weapon that is voice activated?
@@jh1859 As I say in 14:18, I'm quite aware, and I make the case for both approaches.:) The biggest distinction between technology and magic.... at least as far as D&D is concerned is that it doesn't suffer from some of magic's foils. It can't be 'dispelled', you don't have to memorize it, it can't fall to an 'anti-magic spell etc. In fact, what REALLY makes technology so much more dangerous than magic is that pretty much any idiot can wield it, and to great effect, once they know what it does.
@@captcorajus I wasn't aware you mentioned ETTBP flow charts. It was kind of late when I wrote it. However, good video as usual! And good talk.
Ah another module set in Mystara
Like #14!
Temple of the Frog god sounds like what happens when muppet fans start a religion based on the touching of Kermit the Frog.
"Who in the world downvotes these videos?" Answer: players who had BAD ("killer") dm's. Antagonistic participants; greedy, stupid - anti-social. Or the receiving end of failed saving throw, for a long-established or favorite character. At the far end of the spectrum - they were savaged by Kaa, the cartoon python in a real session. That's pretty bad. :)
Could you imagine DMing a module like this as written with pages of boxed text read aloud to the players? 😴😴
I know right?
That used to be how it was done though! Lol
You could just throw out the time travel and contrived attack and give some other motivation for doing the module,. I find myself asking, why would I even care about all this.. it doesn't even sound fun to me.
There are many assumptions you’re making in this module and it’s history. First off Dave Arneson did not use chainmail. At least not in the sense that everyone keeps miss quoting.
(Dave Arneson’s) did try using the medieval combat rules in the domesday Book periodical. It is what he calls the chain mail without the fantasy supplements. He dropped it after three tries relatively early on. And came up with his own game mechanics.
how do I know? Because I was friends with Dave Arneson’s and I came with other people from Minnesota who are there. There are other mistakes you have here but I am happy that you’re reviewing it. And it’s something hard to capture without David there to show the method to the madness. Because he was really really good at describing and getting people interested into things.
One other thing I will point out is a lot of people don’t realize Blackmore is set in a realistic world with spaceships flying all around it. I believe you slightly touch on it. Star Empires for example actually has Blackmore on the map
I appreciate your comment, and thanks for watching, I'm thrilled to have your viewership and commentary! Thank you so much.
However, I never said Dave Arneson used chainmail. What I DID say at 8:30 is that the Temple of the Frog adventure presented in the Blackmoor Supplement II rules for Dungeons and Dragons it was intended that the chainmail rules were to be used, which is unequivocally true. Big distinction.
I'm actually well aware, through first hand accounts in online forums, documentaries and the like that Dave had his own rules that he used, and I made no comment about what Dave did in HIS personal games other than to go over the "Star Trek" connection, which is well documented.
I go to great lengths to limit my commentary to things that are well documented, and where I can... avoid speculation on things that can't be verified, or that have conflicting accounts. When it comes to the early years of D&D there are a LOT of conflicting accounts. I have a plethora of PDFs and the like of old articles from Dragon magazine, zines, and snapshots from online forums such as Dragonfoot, and amazingly accounts vary from the SAME people, with comments made decades apart. Thus, I do my best to stay away from such speculation myself. The subject of the review was specially for DA2, which I personally own, and have played many times and therefore limited my throughs on THAT, as certainly I feel qualified to comment on.
Once again, THANK YOU for your commentary. If you'd like to share your experiences, and insights with me further, I would be thrill. Contact me at captcorajus@gmail.com!
TotF is an interesting read, but truly an unusable D&D module. First off, it’s a time travel Sci-Fi horror plot is an obvious problem of this for a magical fantasy game. That aside, the most important problem is TotF is just unplayable. I say this even though I really like it as a description of a setting. There just is no plot line for the players to follow, and nothing they can find by accident that will help them win. What plot is described in the module ends after the players all get subjected to mind control, and for good reason (the game ends). To be played, the module would have to be reworked so the players could do “anything” to have a chance for success. I’m not convinced that would be worth the effort for a D&D game, but it may be if you converted the module to some dystopian Sci-Fi RPG.
As a side note, running mass combat would ruin all the sci-fi horror this module dose have to offer. If you want a go at mass combat, just make a generic castle and leave all the computers, mind control and genetic experimentation out of it.
I certainly appreciate your commentary, but I can't ascribe to your arguments in regards to DA2.
Most of the TOTF minions have 1 or 2 hit dice. The module is intended for characters 10th to 14th level. MANY of the minions are walking around with BLASTERS on their belts, and the blasters do 6 to 36 points of damage and essentially act like a wand of fireballs. Clearly, it will be no problem for a party to overpower several of the minions, get their rings, and once they figure out how to use the blasters, and some other tech its going to be pretty much game over for the froggies.
If you were speaking of the Supplement II: Blackmoor version of this adventure I would whole heartedly concur with your viewpoint. However, DA2 introduces the Lady Rissa plot, and then offers.. .in great detail... THREE possible ways to infiltrate the city and rescue here. As recruits, as merchants or as slaves. So I don't understand the 'no plot' comment.
In ADDITION, mind controlled characters are simply not 'done for'. The module gives MANY ways that might trigger a new saving throw for such characters. Given the high level of the characters it seems unlikely that they would remain forever enspelled by the mind control device.
As I said in my review, the City of the Frog is heavily detailed and the 'Rescue the Baroness' plot is really on the tip of the iceberg in regards to potential storylines. However, this module is not a Hack and Slay affair. It requires an 'undercover' approach, with the DM building tension as to when they heroes are going to 'slip up'.
Even if they DO slip up, however, all is not lost. If you read the full description of Frog Town there are NPCs there they can cultivate as allies, and can provide them shelter if they get into trouble.
This module is eminently playable, but certainly it requires the right DM and players who enjoy such material.
I tan it like a under cover espionage adventure that .rated down into a aliens type horror action movie with character barley carrying their dead away while teleporting away after a giant battle. They talked about going back for revenge but after a breakneck went in another direction .