Having owned one of them (SN 00713) in the 90's I can add that they rattled like crazy but the advantage was that after a day's shooting in a really dirty/dusty environment there were no jams of any kind. The tolerances were just so loose that no amount of dirt would interfere with the components. That ill-fitting design, I was informed, was intended for that very reason. The magazines did fail both from cracking at the top and the springs would weaken fast if left fully loaded. Mine, however, failed on multiple occasions. First the magazines (they were replaced), the barrel locking pin in the frame bent/cracked, next the barrel rotated in the block locking up the mechanism (they replaced the barrel & slide), and lastly both the frame cracked around the locking pin and the slide between the ejector port and the bottom of the slide. At that stage the company was no longer in business and I had switched to a work issued Z88 and personal Glock 19 for sport purposes. It was a very low cost weapon that I believe suffered from quality of materials.
Cheers for another great video Ian, thanks to you i was able to identify a New Zealand service 1893 Lee Metford Mk2 that has been in our family since before i was born (i'm only 17). It has the broad arrow proof mark flanked by the letters NZ, other markings indicate it was made by the London Small Arms company and a VR mark for Victoria Regina. It also has a sold out of service mark. In the early 20th century it was heavily sporterized with the front stock being cut down, mag cut off was removed as well as the volley sights and possibly a dust cover was also removed. I really like a gun with a good story behind it so i don't mind that is was sporterized. I hope to find out more about it one day and possibly hunt with it as it is in very good condition and the bolt is still slick to operate. Cheers- Cam P.S if you haven't already, can you please make a video on your NZ Martini-Enfield Carbine?
Sean doesn’t seem like it’s worth it from a marketing standpoint since globally, only about 10% of the population is left handed, and of that 10%, a very small amount are firearms owners. I’m not saying to NOT make guns that are southpaw friendly, just that it doesn’t make sense to make ALL of them that way considering the amount of extra parts etc that are required to do it for such a small percentage of the buying market.
They were able to make reversible parts so no extra cost except for the cuts in the frame which is not much of an argument based on cost but I definitely see your point as left handed people are less common, However alot of lefty shooters arent counted in national surveys as lefty as they write and do other activities as righty. Myself a right handed person prefer to shoot lefty since I am left eye dominant
We do love our CZ and Glock. While the SIG pistols have a following they are expensive and the magazines even more so. This is of course exacerbated by the weak currency and the fact that it is expensive to import firearms to RSA from overseas because regulations.
You don't see that style of magazine baseplate because on a metal magazine the catch holes would be too thin to rely on against full spring pressure and any extension beyond the catch holes would risk snagging of the magazine in the well. You basically need something thick like plastic in order to do this, but on something as thin as a plastic pistol magazine you still risk cracking unless you go to wildly expensive composite-plastic molding. You might as well make them out of metal at that point. If you went to plastic thick enough not to crack (pmag-alike), then you're talking about something fatter to hold and less comfortable than a Glock (shudder).
These were guns designed to be used in a genuine war situtaion in quite an extreme climate. As Ian said they worked, in a situation where if it didn't work the results would be fatal. Just out produced by the big guys.
There is some nice innovations in these. Too bad they did not get a third or fourth run. As long as they did not go cheaper. The improvements and design changes would be interesting to see.
I like the design of this pistol from a manufacturing perspective. With heavy use of castings and stampings, it should be rather inexpensive to produce.
Am I crazy or is the slide on the black one slanted down from the mid part of it to the front? I don't think Ian mentioned it, and it's kinda weird looking.
3\:05 ...I've worked in countless areas of manufacturing, mostly on the Physical side fixing designers and engineers and office guys mess ups! :) I even worked at a .22 rifle plant for a coupe, weeks ... If it was me designing a new pistol, at that time (and now) I would USE AN existing magazine!
Good Video - when are you going to do a video on the South African: Vektor Z88 - 9mm pistol (SA Beretta 92F Clone), Vektor SP1 9mm & SP2 40S&W Pistol and the Vektor H5 (.223) Pump action rifle.
A decocker that works by pulling the trigger. Which, under pressure might not be on "decocking" when you want it to, or might be on "decocking" when you don't want it to. *Yeesh*.
THX Ian, interesting again ! Do you have a (strength) engineering judgment on this mixed casting/sheet metal construction ? It just does not look solid to me for surviving a high shot count ....
9:55 Every time I hear "6,35", I can't help hearing in my head that old french thug song, "Cayenne": «J'sortis mon 6,35, et d'une balle en plein cœur, Je l'étendis raide mort et fus serré sur l'heure» «Pulled out my 6,35, and with a bullet straight to the heart, I dropped him down dead, and was arrested on the spot»
I was playing it safe due to California law changes and bought a couple 10 round mags for my USP 45. They had that type of baseplate, while the 12 rounders have the standard push button on the bottom.
Necessity is the mother of invention. Rhodesia - now zimbabwe - had an SAS brigade and another unit called the Selous scouts not sure about all the history surrounding the two but, most of its members where Farmers turned soldier, the weapon is a result of what you get when you give a couple of really handy boys a great platform like the hipower and tell them they cant have any more of them, so they use basic tools to produce their own. Same can be said for the Old Southafrica, but we had slightly bigger industry and maybe more resources, why we took over the manufacturing, but we made good copies of hi powers galils and FN carbines, since sanctions hit us. Denel whom owned Vector has built some of the worlds leading missile technology, attack helicopters, propellants and other weapon technology, luckily the men of the old regime fore saw the communist take over of the country, and walked away with their data before it fell into communist hands in the late '80. Also good to note we had a space program all set and ready to launch for the moon if you can believe that, many of those engineers and scientists ended up working abroad, also taking their data and walking before the program was buried. Great video, thank you, had an opportunity to hold one of these guns just a few days ago, a beaten up one, and really gives you the impression it was made in a garage, but it performed well.
Dude ive never owned a gun. Ive shot a . 22 and a 12g once but my GF at the time DESTROYED me in a clay pigeon ego competition.... (I blame the beers)..... Either way, after watching all your content over this past year, i think i could uphold conversation with Mr. Heston himself! My grandfather turned me on to war history when i was young, so your channel is eye+ear candy juuust like 'Hey Arnold!' was back in 5th grade haha. Really though, what youve taught me VIA 'Forgotten Weapons' makes me look foreward to moving my family the hell out of California, to somewhere where i can build an arsenal of my own (99.9℅ of which intended to circumsbribe historical purposes only. The other 00.1% will serve as my daily driver and Lone Wolf Mcquades (ACTUAL) rifle....I wont trust any other pig iron when the economy collapses, & it WILL happen. Too bad we apparently don't have balls between our legs like Icelandic people seem to possess hahah. Dont get me wrong, I VOTED TRUMP and i am GOD DAMN PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN.... but im willing to bet both my little disappointments that the people who really run this country, the ones who rightfilly refer to all our presidents as "meat puppets", have already made a bold point of their future intentions to rape that amendment too. Theres too much money to be made off such a move, amd too much power. Just like they took my right to jack off to bang bus without being watched when i was in 7th grade....I had to wait 45 MINUTES EVERY TIME for those punk ass 5min videos to load vial DSL...... Damn Cho-Mo agencies..... They couldof at least waited until after i hit puberty so i wouldn't have embarrassed myself. Or maybe outlaw the video cam from being on desks? just like they outlawed my grandmas fake hips from being allowed on planes that year..... Because terrorists, remember? Shes dead now. Threat neutralized
@@phantomspaceman Eh, Botswana is one proper success story. Tanzania (where I live) is interesting in that it had a pretty bad couple decades economically, but at least has never had any civil conflict (including the tribal mob skirmishes that plague the otherwise successful Kenya) or a descent into true authoritarianism. I have deeply mixed feelings on Rhodesia because neither side was great, and the whites made a few huge mistakes that cost them a lot of good will among local blacks.
Not relevant to this but sir I a m following this awesome job of yours for a while now, I didnt see a video on dshk soviet machine gun. I belong to khyber pass reigon in pakistan and this gun though old is quite popular In terrorists and LEAs alike in gaellion versions. I dont expect you seeing this but maybe someone else can guide me if you have done a video over this. Thanks
No disassembly/ in depth dive into that gun he has a old video of him shootin one more modern-day Soviet designs are a bit of a struggle to get in the u.s.
It is lucky that you did not fire it because that screw in the top of the slide would probably break. When people fired the top eject model in the indoor shooting range the cases would bounce off the ceiling and hit them on the head. A terrible gun.
Having owned one of them (SN 00713) in the 90's I can add that they rattled like crazy but the advantage was that after a day's shooting in a really dirty/dusty environment there were no jams of any kind. The tolerances were just so loose that no amount of dirt would interfere with the components. That ill-fitting design, I was informed, was intended for that very reason. The magazines did fail both from cracking at the top and the springs would weaken fast if left fully loaded. Mine, however, failed on multiple occasions. First the magazines (they were replaced), the barrel locking pin in the frame bent/cracked, next the barrel rotated in the block locking up the mechanism (they replaced the barrel & slide), and lastly both the frame cracked around the locking pin and the slide between the ejector port and the bottom of the slide. At that stage the company was no longer in business and I had switched to a work issued Z88 and personal Glock 19 for sport purposes. It was a very low cost weapon that I believe suffered from quality of materials.
I like the top-eject model. Reminds me of those old Webley self-loaders with its blockiness.
3:16 Now the coolest part of the magazine is how it becomes an ideal jumbo Pez dispenser...
Just came here to say something similar!
Rhodesia seems like one of the most unique firearms manufacturer in the world. Always weird, unusual designs come from there. Pretty cool.
I love South African firearms designers. Not afraid to try new or unorthodox ideas, even if they don’t turn out well.
Wait until you see our taxi drivers. Bringing new and unorthodox strategies to public roads every day.
@@matthew1882 what do you think of your military; you are one of the more advanced ones on the African continent
Many of the factory 10 round limited HK mags use that type of base plate. For instance the USP9, P2000/USP9C, and P30/VP9.
JJ W yup my usp40 was the same
Cheers for another great video Ian, thanks to you i was able to identify a New Zealand service 1893 Lee Metford Mk2 that has been in our family since before i was born (i'm only 17). It has the broad arrow proof mark flanked by the letters NZ, other markings indicate it was made by the London Small Arms company and a VR mark for Victoria Regina. It also has a sold out of service mark. In the early 20th century it was heavily sporterized with the front stock being cut down, mag cut off was removed as well as the volley sights and possibly a dust cover was also removed. I really like a gun with a good story behind it so i don't mind that is was sporterized. I hope to find out more about it one day and possibly hunt with it as it is in very good condition and the bolt is still slick to operate.
Cheers- Cam
P.S if you haven't already, can you please make a video on your NZ Martini-Enfield Carbine?
Would you mind posting some pictures of it? It sound very intresting
I agree make some videos on it
I'll post some photos. But where should I so u can see?
@@campbellsmith8357 imgur maybe
Why do all south african guns look as if they were made in the year 2199?
Because South Africa is the future. Have a look at it now, that's where we're all heading...
wait, so war and political discourse?
Fookin Prawns
Elijah Aitaok droughts
cause we got style...
That transparent magazine looks like it came out of an airsoft gun.
Yeah, a little less yellowing and a gear in the bottom and it'd look like it was dug out of a $30 springer.
As a lefty shooter this is super appealing to me I wish modern manufacturers did this sort of design ambi switch capable features are a must have!
Pocket pistol throw in wow I think if I was living in SA at that time I wouldn't have been able to resist
Same I like it
I'm right hand so I don't have the same disadvantage as you and Ian but it's 2018, everything should be ambidextrous.
Sean doesn’t seem like it’s worth it from a marketing standpoint since globally, only about 10% of the population is left handed, and of that 10%, a very small amount are firearms owners.
I’m not saying to NOT make guns that are southpaw friendly, just that it doesn’t make sense to make ALL of them that way considering the amount of extra parts etc that are required to do it for such a small percentage of the buying market.
They were able to make reversible parts so no extra cost except for the cuts in the frame which is not much of an argument based on cost but I definitely see your point as left handed people are less common, However alot of lefty shooters arent counted in national surveys as lefty as they write and do other activities as righty. Myself a right handed person prefer to shoot lefty since I am left eye dominant
Sig sauer and CZ style type pistols apparently seem very popular in South Africa
They indeed are.
CZ....GLOCK
+Sauer ;)
Marcus Flierl: thanks 👍
We do love our CZ and Glock. While the SIG pistols have a following they are expensive and the magazines even more so. This is of course exacerbated by the weak currency and the fact that it is expensive to import firearms to RSA from overseas because regulations.
You don't see that style of magazine baseplate because on a metal magazine the catch holes would be too thin to rely on against full spring pressure and any extension beyond the catch holes would risk snagging of the magazine in the well. You basically need something thick like plastic in order to do this, but on something as thin as a plastic pistol magazine you still risk cracking unless you go to wildly expensive composite-plastic molding. You might as well make them out of metal at that point. If you went to plastic thick enough not to crack (pmag-alike), then you're talking about something fatter to hold and less comfortable than a Glock (shudder).
How did they manage to sell any of these? Why would anyone want a handgun that only ambidextrous people can use?
Your profile picture matches your sense of humour well.
Hoonter of hoonters Thanks.
Nice
It was a commercial flop.
It appeals to homosexuals. I want one btw
Once the Vektor Z88 got the SADF and SAP contracts, there was no hope for the Varan PMX90.
The height of that bore access is crazy!
"OK so we've got Taurus, Rossi, Star, this giant Varan thing.... oh look a Beretta 92!"
**into the trash it all goes**
I'm trying to think of a good "inequality in everything apart from handedness" joke about South Africa....
There's no gripping hand there...
That would take some evenhanded meddling...
These were guns designed to be used in a genuine war situtaion in quite an extreme climate. As Ian said they worked, in a situation where if it didn't work the results would be fatal. Just out produced by the big guys.
There is some nice innovations in these.
Too bad they did not get a third or fourth run. As long as they did not go cheaper.
The improvements and design changes would be interesting to see.
But... Is it as tacticool as the Bren Ten?
Wouldn't it be nice if Glock magazine base plates came off that easily.
But is the magazine dishwasher safe?
Why do you think it's so dirty
Lancer made it magazine base plate like that in the L5 originally which I believe you had in a box and then other video
I love the magazine bottom plate release.
Is it just my perspective, or have they succeeded in achieving a higher barrel axis than a Hi-Point ?
I can see this being a better tactical gun than the previous failed project.
looks like a pretty straight forward affair.
Wow that looks funky in a way that is almost cool
Ian "Thanks for tuning in" Macullum
I like the design of this pistol from a manufacturing perspective. With heavy use of castings and stampings, it should be rather inexpensive to produce.
Am I crazy or is the slide on the black one slanted down from the mid part of it to the front? I don't think Ian mentioned it, and it's kinda weird looking.
3\:05 ...I've worked in countless areas of manufacturing, mostly on the Physical side fixing designers and engineers and office guys mess ups! :)
I even worked at a .22 rifle plant for a coupe, weeks ... If it was me designing a new pistol, at that time (and now) I would USE AN existing magazine!
That base plate is very similar to how you take apart an HK USP 10 round mag.
Good Video - when are you going to do a video on the South African: Vektor Z88 - 9mm pistol (SA Beretta 92F Clone), Vektor SP1 9mm & SP2 40S&W Pistol and the Vektor H5 (.223) Pump action rifle.
Holy bore axis, batman
HK USP magazines disassemble in a similar fashion with detent tabs on each side to remove the baseplate.
The 10 rounders do. The standard capacity ones utilize a standard button on the bottom. At least that goes for the USP models.
Any South African Vektor review coming?
Pretty sure he already did one a few years back.
A decocker that works by pulling the trigger. Which, under pressure might not be on "decocking" when you want it to, or might be on "decocking" when you don't want it to. *Yeesh*.
Can you do a break down video of the P90 or FN2000?
Bless the ambidextrious guns in South Africaaaaaa
THX Ian, interesting again ! Do you have a (strength) engineering judgment on this mixed casting/sheet metal construction ? It just does not look solid to me for surviving a high shot count ....
9:55 Every time I hear "6,35", I can't help hearing in my head that old french thug song, "Cayenne":
«J'sortis mon 6,35, et d'une balle en plein cœur,
Je l'étendis raide mort et fus serré sur l'heure»
«Pulled out my 6,35, and with a bullet straight to the heart,
I dropped him down dead, and was arrested on the spot»
Fired that in the 80`s..
Did these guys go on to design the Ruger P85?
Kind of like the way Sphinx(B&T now )did their cz rendition with a two piece frame.
do a video on the asp! i wanna see it
Pretty sure H&K had a magazine design like that, for the Mark 23 or something
I was playing it safe due to California law changes and bought a couple 10 round mags for my USP 45. They had that type of baseplate, while the 12 rounders have the standard push button on the bottom.
South African gun nice
let's get this out onto a tray...
Replete Replete let's start with the main course
I'll bet the first version would put hot brass right between your eyes.
Ian, is that your gun room? If so it's nice.
What is the secodhand value in South Africa if the condition is good
Better than a Mamba!
I wonder what they though the use of one time use pins was? seems impractical
4:28 ... UGGGG ... NOT comfortable with a trigger activated cocker :(
Looks like a good gun
Cant tell whether it looks like a sig or a s&w
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Rhodesia - now zimbabwe - had an SAS brigade and another unit called the Selous scouts not sure about all the history surrounding the two but, most of its members where Farmers turned soldier, the weapon is a result of what you get when you give a couple of really handy boys a great platform like the hipower and tell them they cant have any more of them, so they use basic tools to produce their own.
Same can be said for the Old Southafrica, but we had slightly bigger industry and maybe more resources, why we took over the manufacturing, but we made good copies of hi powers galils and FN carbines, since sanctions hit us.
Denel whom owned Vector has built some of the worlds leading missile technology, attack helicopters, propellants and other weapon technology, luckily the men of the old regime fore saw the communist take over of the country, and walked away with their data before it fell into communist hands in the late '80.
Also good to note we had a space program all set and ready to launch for the moon if you can believe that, many of those engineers and scientists ended up working abroad, also taking their data and walking before the program was buried.
Great video, thank you, had an opportunity to hold one of these guns just a few days ago, a beaten up one, and really gives you the impression it was made in a garage, but it performed well.
Interesting gun, but the top ejecting variant looks like it's slide was cobbled together from a bunch of old tin cans
why did i not get a notification for this .
Varan the unbelievable
For a second i tought its name was "Varian"
neat....looks like an HI-power/1911
I noticed that it had that smell of a HI-power to it.
But made by Hi Point :)
this gun has the ww2 mauser look tho...lol
First time I saw a South African weapon that didn't look like it came from the future.
Are the slides interchangeable?
No way, it's the 1911 I used to draw when I was a kid
Can you do RPS-001 next, please?
The clips are super cool...yep I said clips clips clips clips clips clips clips...ok a magazine is something you read at the doctors office lol
Ian! You’ve been made into a meme!
Damn, a magazine safety. Shame because this gun looks really neat.
I use SA and Zimbabwe/rhodsian guns in my 5e shadowrun game because they are more interesting and more underground but quality
You guys called the colt all American 2000 bad ? Was this gun sold by harbor freight
Polymer grip below a metal frame? They did it before Sphinx made it cool
Huh so I’m not the only one whose tried to take a slide of a gun without removing the magazine
Can someone give them a good clean or is that meant to be preserved?
Hk p30/vp9 10 rd mags are like that
Do the Z88
Sky-high bore axis.
Clear plastic is always fragile. Just a fact I’d like more people to know.
I don’t understand magazine safeties
Say hello to the biggest sliderelease in the world.
I like it.
That safety, being straight up, looks awkward as heck.
The best thing you can do to a Varan is to ... well forget about it.
Now on ifunny Ian= Gun Jesus
See threw magazines? Welcome in the 90s. Everything was see threw back then.
Dude ive never owned a gun. Ive shot a . 22 and a 12g once but my GF at the time DESTROYED me in a clay pigeon ego competition.... (I blame the beers)..... Either way, after watching all your content over this past year, i think i could uphold conversation with Mr. Heston himself! My grandfather turned me on to war history when i was young, so your channel is eye+ear candy juuust like 'Hey Arnold!' was back in 5th grade haha. Really though, what youve taught me VIA 'Forgotten Weapons' makes me look foreward to moving my family the hell out of California, to somewhere where i can build an arsenal of my own (99.9℅ of which intended to circumsbribe historical purposes only. The other 00.1% will serve as my daily driver and Lone Wolf Mcquades (ACTUAL) rifle....I wont trust any other pig iron when the economy collapses, & it WILL happen. Too bad we apparently don't have balls between our legs like Icelandic people seem to possess hahah.
Dont get me wrong, I VOTED TRUMP and i am GOD DAMN PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN....
but im willing to bet both my little disappointments that the people who really run this country, the ones who rightfilly refer to all our presidents as "meat puppets", have already made a bold point of their future intentions to rape that amendment too. Theres too much money to be made off such a move, amd too much power. Just like they took my right to jack off to bang bus without being watched when i was in 7th grade....I had to wait 45 MINUTES EVERY TIME for those punk ass 5min videos to load vial DSL...... Damn Cho-Mo agencies..... They couldof at least waited until after i hit puberty so i wouldn't have embarrassed myself. Or maybe outlaw the video cam from being on desks? just like they outlawed my grandmas fake hips from being allowed on planes that year..... Because terrorists, remember? Shes dead now. Threat neutralized
WOAAAH
Gun Jesus around the world
So in a knife fight against that gun if you closed you could pop the pin... nice.
The story of Rhodesia makes me sad
Sometimes you do everything right and still fail u.u
Thrown under the bus by scummy British politicians.
@@mattybhoy6522 who in history hasn't lel
The tale of colonial to post-colonial Africa is not a pleasant one. Until Antarctica resurfaces we've run out of continents to ruin.
@@phantomspaceman Eh, Botswana is one proper success story. Tanzania (where I live) is interesting in that it had a pretty bad couple decades economically, but at least has never had any civil conflict (including the tribal mob skirmishes that plague the otherwise successful Kenya) or a descent into true authoritarianism. I have deeply mixed feelings on Rhodesia because neither side was great, and the whites made a few huge mistakes that cost them a lot of good will among local blacks.
Anyone think of the Godzilla kaiju when they heard the name?
So modern and new but bizarrely chunky and obsolete.
Good morning Gun Jesus.
Not relevant to this but sir I a m following this awesome job of yours for a while now, I didnt see a video on dshk soviet machine gun. I belong to khyber pass reigon in pakistan and this gun though old is quite popular In terrorists and LEAs alike in gaellion versions. I dont expect you seeing this but maybe someone else can guide me if you have done a video over this. Thanks
No disassembly/ in depth dive into that gun he has a old video of him shootin one more modern-day Soviet designs are a bit of a struggle to get in the u.s.
👏👏👏👏👏
Kind of an odd looking gun. Not ugly but not pretty looking either.
Neat
It is lucky that you did not fire it because that screw in the top of the slide would probably break. When people fired the top eject model in the indoor shooting range the cases would bounce off the ceiling and hit them on the head. A terrible gun.
Praise Gun Jesus.
Check the reply to your latest tweet