It is true that God said to peter "I shall be with you until the end of times, and the powers of hell shall not preveil". BUT THIS DOES NOT CONTRADICT SEDEVACANTE. How many Ant-Popes have been in the last 2,000 years? How many Inter-Regnums have been in the last 2,000 years? Each of those continute a vacant chair of Peter , and the PROVE that God remained in the church is that good wan against evil, i.e. the error was identified and Pope was removed ... Hence even in evil circumtances God is with us in his Church. Even with evil Popes, the Holly Spirit reigns IN THE POPACY (i.e. the former valid Popes = The Tradition = The infalible magesterium) Christ was 100% clear "When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”(Lk 18, 8)" No need to explain that the Pilar of faith is the Pope. God still reigns in the true church (The Tradition / The infalibale magisterium / The Popacy) as it did many times during Anti_poes and Inter-Regnums. The Profecy of our Lady in Lasalete in XIX century is 100% clear "Rome shall loose the faith and become the chair of the Anti-Christ"
The first thing these sedeoccupationists need to do is prove that the man they claim to be pope can even claim to be Catholic. The ridiculous statements of their latest "pope" are too numerous to list, so I'll just list one: Bergolio (along with his predecessors) tell us that the Jews are our "elder brothers in the faith." Really? The Catholic Church has been offering prayers since antiquity that God remove the "blindness" of the Jews, asks that the Jews acknowledge "the light of Thy truth, which is Christ, that they may be delivered from their darkness." The Good Friday prayer specifically says that they are "faithless," and yet their "pope" denies all this and says not only that they have the faith, but are out elder brothers in the faith? Instead of attacking sedevacantists how about proving to us that Bergolio is right and that the Catholic Church has been wrong all these centuries? So they certainly do not have the Catholic Faith, but do they even have the faith of Abraham? Not according to Jesus Christ who tells them in the Gospel of John that their father is the Devil, because (unlike Abraham) they do not believe in him. Where does he ever say that Jews who reject him have faith of Abraham? Quite the opposite. So please prove to us how Jews who do not accept Jesus Christ and the Catholic Faith are our elder brothers "in the faith." Really looking forward to your proof. "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives..." --Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence
I listened to a debate between a Sedevacantist vs a protestant. The Sedavecantist utterly dominated the debate on all doctrine until the protestant brought up one thing. The protestant said he rejected the authority of the Roman Pontiff, so what made him any different than the Sedevacantist? That's the Sedavacantist dilemma and contradiction: You're rejecting the very authority you believe you have , and was given by God. May God Bless Holy Mother Church.
+CP Ramos This is an easy one to answer, the foremost difference is that sedevacantism doesn't reject the doctrine of the popes since saint Peter until Saint Pius XII, you can't find any contradiction in that because the doctrine is one, as one is the thruth, you can't find this in the second vatican church, Bergoglio contradicts the doctrine of all the popes all the days including the doctrine of his second vatican antipopes colleagues, he says you can't evangelise the orthodox nor the jews, he says there is no catholic God, he says the atheist can go to heaven, he says that a Pope can't judge the gays etc, etc, etc.
you have no idea what you're talking about. Sedevacantists deny the papal claimnant Jorge Bergolgio, not the papal office which is denied by protestants and eastern schismatics.
The difference between Sedevacantism and Protestantism is Sedevacantist reject the pope who is a heretic but NOT the papacy; the Protestant rejects the Papacy and whoever is sitting on the throne of Peter - Big difference. If the president of the USA is found to have committed a crime, it is within the law of the Constitution to charge the president accordingly but not the Presidency, again, big difference. As for the Tim Staples quoting Matthew 16, Christ said His CHURCH will prevail against the gates of Hades, not the pope, and the true Church still exists and will do so till the end of time regardless of heretical popes who are automatically no longer Catholic even though they claim to be. Read up Our Lady of La Salette who prophesied that Rome will become the seat of the Antichrist. How can that be if the Church will prevail? Again, Our Lady speaks of the Vatican becoming the seat of the Antichrist and not the Church. The Vatican cannot override the Magisterium of the Holy Ghost, same as the President cannot override the Constitution, period, but this is what these last 4 popes and Francis have been doing so. “A Pope who is a manifest Heretic automatically ceases to be Pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and member of the Church, wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest Heretic immediately loses all jurisdictions. He who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest Heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St Cyprian, St Athanasius, St Jerome and others; therefore the manifest Heretic cannot be Pope” - Saint Robert Bellarmine. “No one, therefore, unless in communion with Peter can share in his authority, since it is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church” - Pope Leo XIII. “No Catholic can accept a person as a Pope who can be shown to be a Heretic” - Pope Paul IV. “For men are not bound but when they see that someone is a Heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a Heretic, pure and simple, and condemn him as a Heretic” - Anonymous. “It was answered that, from the moment he becomes a heretic he is not the head or even a member of the Church...when he begins to teach a doctrine the Church knows to be a false doctrine....he would cease to be Pope, being deposed by God Himself....if he denies any dogma of the Church held by any true believer, he is no more Pope than either you or I” - Archbishop Purcell (1903) in Reverend James J Mc Govern, “Life and Life Work of Pope Leo XIII”. Chicago: Allied Printing, 1903.241 Thus, whoever accepts a heretic as a pope is also condemned as a heretic by Divine Law (By God Himself), same applies to anyone who condone sin is also a sinner. Sedevancatism is the only thing that keeps the true Church Laws and is prevailing against the gates of Hades. God Bless
Thanks for this answer I have had someone I know fear for my salvation because she doesn't think I should be under Pope. As a convert, of 15 yrs. it confirmed what I believed.
+ella hope Ask your friend this, would she have followed Christ in the first century after Christ's ascension to the Father? If she answers yes, then remind her she would have had to believe under the authority of the apostles and St. Peter's primacy among them.
Pretty good answer by Tim Staples. You have to wonder how Catholic theologians and philosophers like Hans Urs Von Balthasar and Father Robert Barron could come out with the ridiculous statement that we can reasonably expect all men will be saved. Father Barron is reliably reported to have opined the number to be 98% and differentiating the meaning of "hope" and "expect." What the difference was he never got around to explaining.
Daniel Pan Christ died for ALL men, insofar far he wishes all to be saved God couldn't positively will the damnation of any because that would be for God to will evil and be a violation of his perfect justice. That's de Fide, universal dogma. But, obviously, since men have free will, not all will repent of their sins and accept God's mercy, which he would rather give us than his justice. That there is a hell and many are lost comes from umpteen places. Not sure what your point is.
I disagree. The devil will never win because he has already been defeated. The road is narrow that leads to heaven and few will make it. The road to hell is wide and many will make it.
janet mcintyre It doesn't work that way. God wins no matter what so long as he gets *you*. Don't worry about anybody else. Jesus would have died in the cross to save just a single person. Fortunately, he'll get quite a few of us, but it's not a popularity contest between him and the devil.
janet mcintyre Death is destroyed by the works of Jesus Christ. Nothing you do can nullify His work of salvation, no matter how many choose Satan. Even if most perish, death and sorrow is still destroyed. You therefore have to choose where you want to spend Eternity, where there is everlasting life or everlasting torment. Death is no more.
It all comes from the question of: Did we really need Vatican II?
It is true that God said to peter "I shall be with you until the end of times, and the powers of hell shall not preveil". BUT THIS DOES NOT CONTRADICT SEDEVACANTE. How many Ant-Popes have been in the last 2,000 years? How many Inter-Regnums have been in the last 2,000 years? Each of those continute a vacant chair of Peter , and the PROVE that God remained in the church is that good wan against evil, i.e. the error was identified and Pope was removed ... Hence even in evil circumtances God is with us in his Church. Even with evil Popes, the Holly Spirit reigns IN THE POPACY (i.e. the former valid Popes = The Tradition = The infalible magesterium) Christ was 100% clear "When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”(Lk 18, 8)" No need to explain that the Pilar of faith is the Pope. God still reigns in the true church (The Tradition / The infalibale magisterium / The Popacy) as it did many times during Anti_poes and Inter-Regnums. The Profecy of our Lady in Lasalete in XIX century is 100% clear "Rome shall loose the faith and become the chair of the Anti-Christ"
The first thing these sedeoccupationists need to do is prove that the man they claim to be pope can even claim to be Catholic. The ridiculous statements of their latest "pope" are too numerous to list, so I'll just list one:
Bergolio (along with his predecessors) tell us that the Jews are our "elder brothers in the faith." Really? The Catholic Church has been offering prayers since antiquity that God remove the "blindness" of the Jews, asks that the Jews acknowledge "the light of Thy truth, which is Christ, that they may be delivered from their darkness." The Good Friday prayer specifically says that they are "faithless," and yet their "pope" denies all this and says not only that they have the faith, but are out elder brothers in the faith?
Instead of attacking sedevacantists how about proving to us that Bergolio is right and that the Catholic Church has been wrong all these centuries?
So they certainly do not have the Catholic Faith, but do they even have the faith of Abraham? Not according to Jesus Christ who tells them in the Gospel of John that their father is the Devil, because (unlike Abraham) they do not believe in him. Where does he ever say that Jews who reject him have faith of Abraham? Quite the opposite.
So please prove to us how Jews who do not accept Jesus Christ and the Catholic Faith are our elder brothers "in the faith." Really looking forward to your proof.
"The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives..."
--Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence
There really isn't any problem sedevacantism in the true sense of the word means that God can not deceive nor be deceived.
I listened to a debate between a Sedevacantist vs a protestant. The Sedavecantist utterly dominated the debate on all doctrine until the protestant brought up one thing. The protestant said he rejected the authority of the Roman Pontiff, so what made him any different than the Sedevacantist? That's the Sedavacantist dilemma and contradiction: You're rejecting the very authority you believe you have , and was given by God. May God Bless Holy Mother Church.
+CP Ramos This is an easy one to answer, the foremost difference is that sedevacantism doesn't reject the doctrine of the popes since saint Peter until Saint Pius XII, you can't find any contradiction in that because the doctrine is one, as one is the thruth, you can't find this in the second vatican church, Bergoglio contradicts the doctrine of all the popes all the days including the doctrine of his second vatican antipopes colleagues, he says you can't evangelise the orthodox nor the jews, he says there is no catholic God, he says the atheist can go to heaven, he says that a Pope can't judge the gays etc, etc, etc.
Who were the debaters?
you have no idea what you're talking about. Sedevacantists deny the papal claimnant Jorge Bergolgio, not the papal office which is denied by protestants and eastern schismatics.
+CP Ramos
They asked Jesus "How many shall be saved". What did Jesus say?
The difference between Sedevacantism and Protestantism is Sedevacantist reject the pope who is a heretic but NOT the papacy; the Protestant rejects the Papacy and whoever is sitting on the throne of Peter - Big difference.
If the president of the USA is found to have committed a crime, it is within the law of the Constitution to charge the president accordingly but not the Presidency, again, big difference.
As for the Tim Staples quoting Matthew 16, Christ said His CHURCH will prevail against the gates of Hades, not the pope, and the true Church still exists and will do so till the end of time regardless of heretical popes who are automatically no longer Catholic even though they claim to be.
Read up Our Lady of La Salette who prophesied that Rome will become the seat of the Antichrist. How can that be if the Church will prevail? Again, Our Lady speaks of the Vatican becoming the seat of the Antichrist and not the Church. The Vatican cannot override the Magisterium of the Holy Ghost, same as the President cannot override the Constitution, period, but this is what these last 4 popes and Francis have been doing so.
“A Pope who is a manifest Heretic automatically ceases to be Pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and member of the Church, wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest Heretic immediately loses all jurisdictions. He who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest Heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St Cyprian, St Athanasius, St Jerome and others; therefore the manifest Heretic cannot be Pope” - Saint Robert Bellarmine.
“No one, therefore, unless in communion with Peter can share in his authority, since it is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church” - Pope Leo XIII.
“No Catholic can accept a person as a Pope who can be shown to be a Heretic” - Pope Paul IV.
“For men are not bound but when they see that someone is a Heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a Heretic, pure and simple, and condemn him as a Heretic” - Anonymous.
“It was answered that, from the moment he becomes a heretic he is not the head or even a member of the Church...when he begins to teach a doctrine the Church knows to be a false doctrine....he would cease to be Pope,
being deposed by God Himself....if he denies any dogma of the Church held by any true believer, he is no more Pope than either you or I” - Archbishop Purcell (1903) in Reverend James J Mc Govern, “Life and Life Work of Pope Leo XIII”. Chicago: Allied Printing, 1903.241
Thus, whoever accepts a heretic as a pope is also condemned as a heretic by Divine Law (By God Himself), same applies to anyone who condone sin is also a sinner. Sedevancatism is the only thing that keeps the true Church Laws and is prevailing against the gates of Hades.
God Bless
Luke 18:8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"
Thanks for this answer I have had someone I know fear for my salvation because she doesn't think I should be under Pope. As a convert, of 15 yrs. it confirmed what I believed.
+ella hope Ask your friend this, would she have followed Christ in the first century after Christ's ascension to the Father? If she answers yes, then remind her she would have had to believe under the authority of the apostles and St. Peter's primacy among them.
What about where Jesus says that in the end times I will send not a shepherd but a destroyer. I believe we are in the end times now
There was a Jewish remnant who followed commandments All so remmant of Catholics that practice and follow Jesus
Pretty good answer by Tim Staples. You have to wonder how Catholic theologians and philosophers like Hans Urs Von Balthasar and Father Robert Barron could come out with the ridiculous statement that we can reasonably expect all men will be saved. Father Barron is reliably reported to have opined the number to be 98% and differentiating the meaning of "hope" and "expect." What the difference was he never got around to explaining.
Will Branson I think it was more of wishful thinking, but we all know that people go to Hell.
celtosax8
Tell Father Barron because he didn't say "wish."
*****
Oh yes he is. Very much so.
Daniel Pan
Sorry, could you - pretty please with sugar on it - direct me to where John Paul II said that.
Daniel Pan
Christ died for ALL men, insofar far he wishes all to be saved God couldn't positively will the damnation of any because that would be for God to will evil and be a violation of his perfect justice. That's de Fide, universal dogma. But, obviously, since men have free will, not all will repent of their sins and accept God's mercy, which he would rather give us than his justice. That there is a hell and many are lost comes from umpteen places. Not sure what your point is.
LA LA LAND IS POST VATICAN 2 CHURCH
Sedevacantism is my pet peeve.
If more go to hell than heaven, that means the devil wins! I don't see that happening
Read the Bible, read the Saints. Jesus said it.
I disagree. The devil will never win because he has already been defeated.
The road is narrow that leads to heaven and few will make it.
The road to hell is wide and many will make it.
janet mcintyre It doesn't work that way. God wins no matter what so long as he gets *you*. Don't worry about anybody else. Jesus would have died in the cross to save just a single person. Fortunately, he'll get quite a few of us, but it's not a popularity contest between him and the devil.
janet mcintyre Death is destroyed by the works of Jesus Christ. Nothing you do can nullify His work of salvation, no matter how many choose Satan. Even if most perish, death and sorrow is still destroyed. You therefore have to choose where you want to spend Eternity, where there is everlasting life or everlasting torment. Death is no more.