I always tell people that my favorite book of the Bible is revelation. The author is incredibly well read and references soooo many things in a unique way for his own polemics. Unfortunately, many people, especially atheists, just want to say he was high on drugs or just insane. Once we put this in the context of the Roman empire and the imperial cult, everything falls into place and it's incredible
@@MyperfectshellThere’s a great (although sometimes exhausting) analysis of Left Behind by Fred Clark on Patheos. For years he analyzed the first two books and movies, chapter by chapter. It’s pretty fascinating stuff imo.
I find it both hilarious and saddening, in equal measure, that biblical scholars have spent centuries trying to decipher what is a poorly translated contemporaneous analogy, and finding new ways to make it a prophecy about whatever age they lived in. By my calculation, it has been the end times, the days of the beast and the great tribulation around 8000 times now, with no sign of much really changing. Each successive generation claims that the previous got it wrong because of some newly discovered translation, and that the rapture is close to hand. What is it that they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?
It's their necessity to feel special. Which xtian don't want to feel that he's the chosen to the rapture and will not suffer anymore? Ironically, they still have babies (thing that Paul said to not do since the End of Times was near) Do they subconsciously know? 🤔
Oh, Dan, you are such a spoilsport! What will people have left to be hysterical about, if you keep injecting rational scholarship into the conversation?
Lets not ignore the charismatic guy with like 16 baby mammas that literally wants to implant everyone with microchips that will use his payment platform
That's so fake. They can't even act. It's an election year. Weren't you expecting something like this? Riots, maybe? Do you still think BLM was anything but?
LOL I just got finished watching a World of Warcraft video and thought "mark of the beast" was a new hunter talent. I thought it was what we call "Hunter's Mark". I have a Beast Mastery Hunter on WoW.
I have known for a while that this was a reference to nero from the calculated number. Revelation was frustrating to me because I read it thinking "Okay now all this stuff is going to finally make sense." Then, when I read it - it was one of the weirdest things I had ever seen.
@@baonemogomotsi7138it’s more plausible than Obama, Harris, Biden, Clinton, and a bunch of other people right-wing Christians claim to be the mark of the beast.
I attended an evangelical university and the professor for the Bible class, when we got to Revelation, pointed out that in Revelation everyone gets marked you either are marked by thr beast or by god, so it becomes less of a question of not getting marked but by whom are you marked. Granted I can't remember his full explanation as this was 20 some years ago but still.
Some people have a hard time understanding that a text written at one time for a specific audience has only one connection to a modern audience. It is to study that text to reconstruct how it was understood by different audiences. Two centuries from now, scholars studying the book of Revelation will probably produce an article or a paragraph on how that text has been understood in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. There will be two distinct sides. One, the way biblical scholars have negotiated with the text, and the other, the way some people negotiate with the text. Think of it as how Shakespeare was understood by audiences in the eighteenth century and how he was understood by literary critics in the same period.
I heard that ancient Jews used letters of their alphabet to also indicate numbers and that it was a common thing to figure out the numeric value of people's names. So in the case of "666" (or in some cases "616" I believe) it is the numerical value of Nero, the emperor who was persecuting early Christians.
Mostly true, but Nero was a bit early to be persecuting Christians. It's that he represents Roman rule over Judea, which the Israelites believe is theirs, not Rome's. By this logic, Roman rule is temporary and many posit the current or future existence of a leader who will defeat Rome militarily (as opposed to having an angel killing all Romans in their sleep one night). Dan has several videos on the Number of the Beast; in Revelations it is a way to refer to Nero without writing the name, analogously to He Who Must Not Be Named. The problem is that if you don't know the meme, there are other names you could make up that fit 666. So Revelations isn't for noobs.
Revelations was written in Greek but it also uses letters as numbers. The Nero reference comes from the Emperor Domitian who was seen as a reincarnation of Nero - the head of beast with a fatal wound that healed.
@@icollectstories5702 Ah, and it is funny that every generation for millennia thinks that the bible was written specifically for THEM rather than the people who existed when it was written.
I'm going to get the Elder Sign mark that's on the front of the Necronomicon. That way, when Great Cthulhu awakens I shall be spared! Hey, makes as much sense in believing that the Book of Revelation predicts events thousands of years later instead of a dream about the Roman Empire.
This is such a mouthful that I kept worrying for years how I would explain that multi-layered metaphor concerning the Mark of The Beast-Dr Dan has expressed it more eloquently than I imagined was possible for me (in my imaginary mental scenarios of me explaining the scholarly consensus to someone)
well,well,well . . . Who do we have here? If it isn't MusicalRaichu, the guy that got absolutely dunked on in the comment section of Dan's video #maklelan2210
Oh, we've heard it argued that a secondary purpose of Revelation, besides the apocalyptic imagery, was to act as an effort to return Christianity to its Jewish roots. Wondering if there's anything to that.
"The Bible" doesn't forbid magic. Different authors of different books forbid different sorts of magic. People cast lots in different books all the time to discover hidden knowledge, which is often portrayed as a totally normal and OK thing to do. But the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain passages that condemn divination.
@@TacticusPrime The Bible definitely bans entire schools of magic, and bans all women from casting magic. Problem is, the translation of schools of magic is inconsistent, so the only thing we can be sure that necromancy is a sure no-no. But even on top of that like 4 other form of magick is forbidden, and I wish to know which ones.
Why do you think this claim of yours is so powerful you only need to repeat it without proof? Religions are not laws of nature. People who believe differently than you are not all the same, either. In short, you're aping the people you're mocking.
2:05 "The destroying angel is to pass over." The Bible never says this. To see who actually did the "passing over," read Exodus 12:23. (Cf. Exodus 11:4-7, 13:15; Psalm 78:51, 105:36, 135:8, 136:10.)
I still haven't watched Bart Ehrman's video on the book of Revelation. I never heard about the imagery discussed here in the light of coinage. I hope Bart touches on this as well. Trying to understand apocolyptic literature is difficult.
Oh really? Where is that mark which we cannot buy or sell without? I have looked and studied and have seen no such thing. Or do you refer to claims of the mark coming into existence within our lifetimes?
@@solidstorm6129 The original dude seemingly said something about it not being possible to tattoo people before the present day. Or did I mishear? Or was the idea that commercial law is somehow a new invention? In any case, it all seemed to be an argument about timing, and I can't see anything about timing in the idea.
@@stephenspackman5573 By demonstrating that the author was referring to items his contemporaries would understand, Dan demonstrated the claim it couldn't happen before the last century was nonsense without having to say so. It's called being spoken to like an adult. Enjoy. I suspect you're not used to it, which is a bummer.
Cain is under the protection of YHWH. "15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden." It is a mark of WHWH's ownership/protection of Cain.
@@LPandMD Again, take it up with YHWH or the text. IT says why in there. So that his punishment would not be too great so as to cause his death/murder after being banished. READ it!
@@veridicusmaximus6010 No, you are dodging the question. I did not ask if Cain was under YVHV’s protection, I asked why that was the case. If you don’t know, then you’re not compelled to post any responses. You can just walk away and let someone who does know or at least is willing to engage with the question take a chance on it. Please stop responding with “I TOLD YOU!!!” bullshit. I am trying to take it up with the text, I just don’t understand it well enough. Why you feel like you have to bully me in response to this is beyond me. What’s wrong with you that you feel you have to come on so hard in response to a very simple, politely worded inquiry? Do you just watch too many debate videos where people tear each other apart instead of working together to find an answer to a problem? Or are you just mentally ill and randomly attack anyone you encounter online?
I mean, maybe. It seems to me that, when interpreting these old texts, we always end up making educated guesses more than definitive interpretations. People have been interpreting Revelation for thousands of years in various ways, and I don’t suspect this interpretation is necessarily what he author was thinking either. I guess what is frustrating to me when watching this video is that DM is talking as if all this is completely settled, but I think especially with scholarly writing about these topics we always end up talking in probabilities and educated guesswork, we have strong reasons to believe, a likely interpretation based on these data, this interpretation is supported by these additional practices and supporting documents, though another theory from this individual can be made based on, etc, etc. When I see someone making straight up authoritative claims like this about what Revelation definitely meant, with no admission of doubt or alternate hypotheses, I get skeptical.
@@lysanamcmillan7972 who cares what I am? Does it matter? Having a phd doesn’t make him right. Do you not see the problem? Academia, even hard science, acts on probabilities and theories. Conclusions usually are tentative, but especially in the case of symbolic texts where we don’t even know who the author was, nor precisely when it was written! You know, phrases like: This seems to be what is happening, this experiment suggests according to this data that this interpretation is the most likely, that sort of thing. His attitude here seems to be “this is the one possible interpretation, if you believe something else you’re wrong”-and he even goes so far as to proclaim at the end that we should not allow the text to influence us today (I’m paraphrasing, but still), as if he is the authority on what everyone should believe about the text. Can you not see how this is rather a ridiculous thing to be saying, no matter how many phds or publications one might have? He doesn’t even allow the possibility that his interpretation might be wrong! He comes across like every believer in the world should just take his interpretation and believe the way he does (all billion plus believers), cut and dried, which sounds profoundly unacademic to me (I do work in academia, though in an unrelated field). You know, data over dogma, so he should be saying the data seems to suggest, not making dogmatic interpretations and demanding everyone believe like he does. I am not even saying his interpretation is a bad one. I just wish he had gone about his explanation with a little more academic humility. Something like, “the interpretation that I favor is this because of these data points. My conclusion based on my studies leads me to believe we don’t need to worry about futurist interpretations of the text, so it’s okay to relax. However, if you are interested in other interpretations, it’s good to keep in mind these data points as you work through the interpretive difficulties, which is why I personally settle more in the preterist interpretive tradition and find futurist, historicist, and idealist interpretations overly religiously motivated for a secular, scholarly appraisal. If you are operating from a religious viewpoint, I hope you still find these data useful for you as you consider your beliefs and their origins.” Anyway, that’s my opinion, which is not necessarily what everyone should believe. I’m not a universal authority, either :)
We know what the point and the rhetorical goals of Apocalyptic writings are. He was addressing that. He was making the point that these things aren't meant to be clearly deciphered, but to evoke emotional responses, once again based on the genre. He then covered what things were references to. The only logical goal of a modern researcher is to find what other texts and concepts the author was referencing, when it was written, and what events were happening at the time. When people try to make sense of the text as a complete narrative or prophecy, that's when the problems arrise. It's somewhat like Jabberwocky where as soon as you start to think you've made sense of the meaning, you find you've lost it again. This is why people have argued for centuries trying to make sense if it. There IS no answer, or there is no one answer. The goals were to be cryptic so they would have some sort of plausible deniability, and to make it so the intended audience would find meaning and encouragement in it.
@@LEgregius Thank you for your comment. I think when approaching a text, it's important to consider things like the genre of course, and I think that a scholar exploring the meaning of a text from possible cultural reference points is useful--but the problem is still that these are by their very nature extrapolations based on likely interpretations. The possible cultural links to things like marking people for slavery or handing over money or the Passover are all interesting and possible interpretations, but I think it is just frustrating in the way that he presents the data here. It sounds like he thinks he has it all figured out, that these are definitely the data points and obviously the conclusions are thus and there really isn't anything much to discuss. To me at least, it doesn't sound like he is approaching the text with an open mind so much as with a shut book--these are definitely what the writer had in mind, and the conclusion seems presumptive as well. Even if we agree that ultimately there is no supernatural power in the text, Revelation could still be interpreted as intending to predict the future, even if it is unsuccessful. My objection mostly is one of stance more than content here--I am not a scholar of the Bible, but I always flinch when I meet these interpretations that are presented as straightforward fact. We don't have notes from the author on interpretation or what he (or they) were thinking, so every connection we are making has to be partially guesswork (heck, even if we did have notes from the author, we might doubt they were truthful or really from the author). And his conclusion, that we don't have to think about these things in the 20th century, doesn't feel like something aimed at secular scholars (who would not be looking for guidance from such an old text anyway), but rather towards believers. Why tell believers what they should believe about their own text? It feels like a step too far to me. I just wish he had couched his language a bit more carefully, but... this is UA-cam. It's not really an academic roundtable.
I am not digging in the bible to be connected to God. To me God means have empathy, through that you can see small miracles happen. What the Chinese with their I Ching call being in line with the universe. I think we picture God in our image, instead of the other way round, that makes God an extension of our own development. I have seen angels, had many contacts with people after they died, had visions. I understand that is what the disciples of Jesus had as well. It all comes down to can you place yourself in someone else's shoes and do you take responsibility. I see people of different beliefs not doing that, the biggest example is Israel at the moment. The bible being used for peoples egoistic benefits, without there being any contact with God and humans. I do not want to study the bible, but I am very happy you do Dan, since it is about time the real meanings become clear so the use of the bible to commit atrocities can be stopped.
Dan, you say that the Book of Revelation is limited to the first century, but the mark of the Beast is the one that comes out of the earth. I’m interested in how your scholarship interprets the beast from the earth and the beast from the sea. Could you explain the difference? Thanks!
At 2:58 you state that the Torah declares that words were to be engravened on the RIGHT hand. The term "RIGHT" was not in the text and, in fact, based on hermeneutics, by the 1st century CE, right-handed Jews wore them on their LEFT hand, while left-handed Jews wore them on their RIGHT hand (based on the quirky different wording between the totafot and an oht). So if your focus is on a :"RIGHT HAND" association, then this passage should be discarded or ignored unless you are talking only about left-handed Jews! ;)
According to scholars, like Dan as an example, this would be gematria referring to “Kaiser Neron”. (Aka Emperor Nero) I think Religion For Breakfast had a video on the subject too.
all three were different contexts. render to caesar was against religious nationalism. obey the government was about living in peace in society. Revelation was to help face outbursts of Roman opposition and social pressure to conform to state religion.
Lol I find it funny that revelation describes the times we live in. In great detail. Also God has made himself known to me. I was a non believer and he changed that in a second. Lol some people are going to be scratching their heads standing in front of the throne during judgment. Something has always had to exist for anything to exist. The universe has a beginning and a end. That's by design and design requires intelligence. Take a coffee cup for example, was it made or it just was? No its designed by intelligence. God reminds us he has no beginning or end he just was. Be blessed all take care
@@Alex_Mitchell@EricMcLuen ok so Israel only became a country again in the 1940s. The mark could be a cell phone, hence forehead or hand. Chariots can be cars and flying chariots can be planes. The Bible describes Current times but is 2000 years plus old . It's survived all those years when people tried to remove it from existice many times over. The revelation would not have came true until current times, mathematics are a universal law, that's by design which takes intelligence. You can fathom something can come from nothing which is impossible, but can't fathom a creator which is. Our bodies are made up of energy which can't be destroyed only transforms, we are made up of atoms that are billions of years old which also do die. Our universe has a speed limit, the speed of light, all of this is by design. You can't make something from nothing. God bless take care.
@@jaxjaguarsfball1agreed so the Bible has been so well written that it can be applied through most of every generation until current times but agreed the prophecy can only be fulfilled in current times, also the ufraties river drying up is also in revelation which is happening now in current times, some of the fallen are chained there and when the river dries up completely which only in these times has it and will. Lol all glory to God and his mighty word! He that has no beginning or end! He just is.
This is actually one of the reasons it was rejected by early Christians. Many, including Paul, believed they would be resurrected into that world. Also, the imagery of the new Jerusalem was materialistic with golden streets and jewels. This clashed with the spiritual views of the time. Like everything in Revelation, it's meant not to be taken at face value, but as an encouragement of reward to the faithful after indulging a very violent revenge fantasy against the people persecuting them at the time.
@@LEgregius I'm only speaking about the author's intent and what he believed was the ultimate destiny of humanity. It hasn't all come to pass according to his beliefs. I agree with most of the things Dan is saying here, and I appreciate his rhetorical goals having grown up in a charismatic dispensationalist rapture-crazy church environment. I just think he's overplaying his hand a little bit.
Allow ??? He jokingly tells me to save him from his followers for that, and a few other reasons. The church is not his intention, and neither is worship or organized religion.
@@BubbaF0wpend I know. But that would atleast suggest that he believed or claimed to be God. I want to know if he did allude to the idea that he was God
Hey mate, how is InspiringPhilosophy going? He tore you to pieces in the last argument you had with him. Mate, you need to stop quote mining and start reading. I hope you have now found page 57 of the book...hahah
Hey mate. How are you going? Isn't it funny that you numbnuts stick with apologists because they tell you what you want to hear? An apologist by definition can't be objective, because their goal is to defend their faith regardless of the facts or data. Just like those "scholars" that have to sign statements of faith. A critical scholar, including those that are religious (Mark S Smith, Dale Allison, Thom Stark, Dan McClellan etc) follow the data where it leads, even if it goes against their religious beliefs and Dan has stated this in scholarly articles. I'd like to see IP do the same. You people are ridiculous.
According to the Bible itself, the final beast/global empire and its mark of allegiance and ownership is a prophesy. The books of Daniel and Revelation are talking about the same thing... "The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. 24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings. 25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute[j] the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time. 26 ‘But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. 27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’ (Daniel 7:23-27) The fourth and final beast/global empire seems to be well established. "trample and break in pieces" fits the destructive Marxist/communist element within it. With the digital currency and identification capabilities now in existence the 'mark' is basically already here.
Says nothing about Marxist/communist elements nor modern capabilities of digital currency. Furthermore, if Rev. and Dan. are the same thing and time then Rev. told you not to seal up the prophecy of the book AS DAN. DID - why? - because the time is AT HAND. Well that was 2,000 years ago. NEXT!!
This is called negotiating with the text to justify certain beliefs that are not supported by the data in the text. You impose your preconceived ideas on a text.
Also, why putting a mark on everybody is a concept not possible until the 20th Century???
The writer acts as though hats, salutes, and handshakes didn't exist back then.
Beats freaking me. To be that ignorant
Because they read that somewhere (or heard it from some evangelical pastor or YTbr) and simply sent it along to Dan without thinking about it.
@@Newton-Reuther or branding
And tattoos and scars and jewelry
But they didnt have hands or foreheads until the 20th century!!! /s
They just three heads before the 20th century. But some people have five heads today….(sorry Dan)
@@russellharrell2747 👍😂
I'm still waiting on nero to come out of hiding
Along with JFK, Elvis and Tupak... ⌛
Any day now!
@@Noneya5555Elvis wasn’t kidnapped by aliens. He went willingly.
@@manigen he will return as an AI and start burning barcodes onto our foreheads
He's Bigfoot's roomie
People always talking about the Mark of the Beast.
Nobody's ever talking about the Dave of the Bird.
I never heard of Dave the bird in my life I'm 51
@@ShelovesJesus-r1zMaybe if you weren't so serious and offended by every video on this channel, you could figure out what a joke is. God bless!
What about the Gil of the Fish?
@@ShelovesJesus-r1z That's because nobody's ever talking about it smh my head.
Bird being the key word here.
And the executioners went out and found the tattoo shops. And they all said "Oh, boy, this is going to be tricky.'' 😅😵💫
I always tell people that my favorite book of the Bible is revelation. The author is incredibly well read and references soooo many things in a unique way for his own polemics. Unfortunately, many people, especially atheists, just want to say he was high on drugs or just insane. Once we put this in the context of the Roman empire and the imperial cult, everything falls into place and it's incredible
Everyone was also on drugs
Atheists, huh? That well-known contiguous group with identical motivations and values…
Ok but do you have examples? Also, what do you think of the Left Behind series?
@@MyperfectshellThere’s a great (although sometimes exhausting) analysis of Left Behind by Fred Clark on Patheos. For years he analyzed the first two books and movies, chapter by chapter. It’s pretty fascinating stuff imo.
Why atheists? I'm sure any theist that is not a Christian (and some Christians) will take that first impression.
I find it both hilarious and saddening, in equal measure, that biblical scholars have spent centuries trying to decipher what is a poorly translated contemporaneous analogy, and finding new ways to make it a prophecy about whatever age they lived in. By my calculation, it has been the end times, the days of the beast and the great tribulation around 8000 times now, with no sign of much really changing. Each successive generation claims that the previous got it wrong because of some newly discovered translation, and that the rapture is close to hand. What is it that they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?
It's their necessity to feel special. Which xtian don't want to feel that he's the chosen to the rapture and will not suffer anymore?
Ironically, they still have babies (thing that Paul said to not do since the End of Times was near)
Do they subconsciously know? 🤔
@@rcktneoofusa They have suspicions, but they are trapped in Pascal's wager.
Oh, Dan, you are such a spoilsport! What will people have left to be hysterical about, if you keep injecting rational scholarship into the conversation?
Don't worry. They'll find something.
@@donaldwert7137 They'll something. Paranoia is self-fulfilling, that's what makes it endlessly engrossing.
Also, "The Bible tells me so."
They've already found DEI
@@creamwobbly CRT's obnoxious little brother.
So true, so true. How will we ever go in with our lives with true scholarship?
So the beast isn't Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys? I stand corrected.
Jury’s still out on that one…
And today the mark is a red cap and in the right hand a gun.
Måke Mïlitias Wëll-Regülated Agåin
Lets not ignore the charismatic guy with like 16 baby mammas that literally wants to implant everyone with microchips that will use his payment platform
That's so fake. They can't even act. It's an election year. Weren't you expecting something like this? Riots, maybe? Do you still think BLM was anything but?
Wheres the school children at?
and the beast frequently craps his pants and loves to play golf
LOL I just got finished watching a World of Warcraft video and thought "mark of the beast" was a new hunter talent. I thought it was what we call "Hunter's Mark". I have a Beast Mastery Hunter on WoW.
Haha, the Ranger class in D&D also has an ability called Hunter's Mark. It could be fun to re-name and re-flavor that as a Mark of the Beast
So apocalyptic literature is kind of like cyberpunk, the dystopia that's 20 minutes into the future😎
I have known for a while that this was a reference to nero from the calculated number.
Revelation was frustrating to me because I read it thinking "Okay now all this stuff is going to finally make sense."
Then, when I read it - it was one of the weirdest things I had ever seen.
In modern days the mark of the beast is a MAGA hat.
Lol, your political beef isn't featured in revelation
@@baonemogomotsi7138 But it might be closer than you think ...
@@baonemogomotsi7138it’s more plausible than Obama, Harris, Biden, Clinton, and a bunch of other people right-wing Christians claim to be the mark of the beast.
@@baonemogomotsi7138I don't understand how analogies work either.
Keep your political beliefs out of it, you're revealing your intelligence, and it's embarrassing.
If certain people would just move on, then what would they do with their lifes?
Dang, I thought MAGA hats were the fulfillment.
Nope, but it’s a close second.
You can't get back into heaven after popping out for a smoke without that stamp on the back of your hand.
I attended an evangelical university and the professor for the Bible class, when we got to Revelation, pointed out that in Revelation everyone gets marked you either are marked by thr beast or by god, so it becomes less of a question of not getting marked but by whom are you marked. Granted I can't remember his full explanation as this was 20 some years ago but still.
Some people have a hard time understanding that a text written at one time for a specific audience has only one connection to a modern audience. It is to study that text to reconstruct how it was understood by different audiences. Two centuries from now, scholars studying the book of Revelation will probably produce an article or a paragraph on how that text has been understood in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. There will be two distinct sides. One, the way biblical scholars have negotiated with the text, and the other, the way some people negotiate with the text. Think of it as how Shakespeare was understood by audiences in the eighteenth century and how he was understood by literary critics in the same period.
It’s entirely cultish & manipulative behavior.
I don't get the question. A concept not possible until the 20th century? But... why? In what way?
Its sad that people are still waiting
With bated breath, gleefully anticipating how much they are going to enjoy the suffering of the "unjust", because they are such good Christians.
@@donaldwert7137literally. No greater thing can be considered a miracle than knowing that deities probably don't exist.
I heard that ancient Jews used letters of their alphabet to also indicate numbers and that it was a common thing to figure out the numeric value of people's names. So in the case of "666" (or in some cases "616" I believe) it is the numerical value of Nero, the emperor who was persecuting early Christians.
Mostly true, but Nero was a bit early to be persecuting Christians. It's that he represents Roman rule over Judea, which the Israelites believe is theirs, not Rome's. By this logic, Roman rule is temporary and many posit the current or future existence of a leader who will defeat Rome militarily (as opposed to having an angel killing all Romans in their sleep one night).
Dan has several videos on the Number of the Beast; in Revelations it is a way to refer to Nero without writing the name, analogously to He Who Must Not Be Named. The problem is that if you don't know the meme, there are other names you could make up that fit 666. So Revelations isn't for noobs.
Revelations was written in Greek but it also uses letters as numbers.
The Nero reference comes from the Emperor Domitian who was seen as a reincarnation of Nero - the head of beast with a fatal wound that healed.
@@icollectstories5702 Ah, and it is funny that every generation for millennia thinks that the bible was written specifically for THEM rather than the people who existed when it was written.
@@JustWasted3HoursHereoh yeah. I agree. It’s hilarious.
The mark of the beast could also signify the brand of a Roman legionary
I'm going to get the Elder Sign mark that's on the front of the Necronomicon. That way, when Great Cthulhu awakens I shall be spared! Hey, makes as much sense in believing that the Book of Revelation predicts events thousands of years later instead of a dream about the Roman Empire.
This is such a mouthful that I kept worrying for years how I would explain that multi-layered metaphor concerning the Mark of The Beast-Dr Dan has expressed it more eloquently than I imagined was possible for me (in my imaginary mental scenarios of me explaining the scholarly consensus to someone)
Now you can just show them this clip.
So it's pretty much a plea for people to perform CREDs?
No, no, no.... clearly the spirit explained to John everything about barcodes and he only passed on what the first century audience needed to know.
I haven’t used a philactory in years
Dang…lots of slaughtering there in that there GoodBook
Dan out here doin' the Lord's work lawl
Christians really make me fear for my life.
Most are fake Christians anyway. Those people and non believers like you make me fear for my life. Babylonian
Thanks for some sanity ...
well,well,well . . . Who do we have here? If it isn't MusicalRaichu, the guy that got absolutely dunked on in the comment section of Dan's video #maklelan2210
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Oh, we've heard it argued that a secondary purpose of Revelation, besides the apocalyptic imagery, was to act as an effort to return Christianity to its Jewish roots. Wondering if there's anything to that.
Do you have video where you talk about the prince (or patron) of persia who fought angel Gabriel and Michael in the book of Daniel?
I preferred Impossible Mission, Another World, and Flashback.
@@brandonontama2415 how many times have you asked this question by now?
@solidstorm6129 I haven't received an answer from him though. 😊
Someone recommended this channel. My question would be:
what kind of magic the Bible forbids?
"The Bible" doesn't forbid magic. Different authors of different books forbid different sorts of magic. People cast lots in different books all the time to discover hidden knowledge, which is often portrayed as a totally normal and OK thing to do. But the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain passages that condemn divination.
@@TacticusPrime The Bible definitely bans entire schools of magic, and bans all women from casting magic.
Problem is, the translation of schools of magic is inconsistent, so the only thing we can be sure that necromancy is a sure no-no.
But even on top of that like 4 other form of magick is forbidden, and I wish to know which ones.
Religion for Breakfast is actually a channel by a scholar who specializes in 1st century magic.
The kind that is not sanctioned!!
Well, we know sacrificial blood magic is apparently kosher.
Though I'm personally enjoying a Festival of Weeks of sorts, Ash Wednesday is proper...
Like all religions it is utter tosh.
Why do you think this claim of yours is so powerful you only need to repeat it without proof? Religions are not laws of nature. People who believe differently than you are not all the same, either. In short, you're aping the people you're mocking.
It makes me think of DBZ and Babidi, where those who accept him receive the mark of the Majiin
It sounds like Dan is trying to fool people into taking the mark. Not surprising.
So if this is true… what about first and final resurrection in revelation?
I'm sure, somewehere, there's a death metal band called The Beast, the drummer is named Mark, and that's great publicity for them.
Umpire, calling balls and strikes
2:05 "The destroying angel is to pass over." The Bible never says this. To see who actually did the "passing over," read Exodus 12:23. (Cf. Exodus 11:4-7, 13:15; Psalm 78:51, 105:36, 135:8, 136:10.)
Damn. You’re good.
I still haven't watched Bart Ehrman's video on the book of Revelation. I never heard about the imagery discussed here in the light of coinage. I hope Bart touches on this as well. Trying to understand apocolyptic literature is difficult.
Elaine Pagels alsowrote a bookmon Revelations. DM mentioned it in another vid. It is very readable.
@@EricMcLuen Thank you for the information
❤❤❤❤❤ thanks Dan!!!
Thanks Dan.❤
Its a spirit
I don't think you addressed the main point, the rather odd idea that marks have only been invented in our lifetimes.
Oh really? Where is that mark which we cannot buy or sell without? I have looked and studied and have seen no such thing. Or do you refer to claims of the mark coming into existence within our lifetimes?
@@solidstorm6129 The original dude seemingly said something about it not being possible to tattoo people before the present day. Or did I mishear? Or was the idea that commercial law is somehow a new invention?
In any case, it all seemed to be an argument about timing, and I can't see anything about timing in the idea.
@@stephenspackman5573 By demonstrating that the author was referring to items his contemporaries would understand, Dan demonstrated the claim it couldn't happen before the last century was nonsense without having to say so. It's called being spoken to like an adult. Enjoy. I suspect you're not used to it, which is a bummer.
@@lysanamcmillan7972 Well, *that* was a weird response.
Wait, the mark of the beast wasn’t his paw imprinted on your face because he punched you in the face ? 😈😈
I'm pretty sure the mark of the Beast is an X in a rectangle or circle, with little blue hairs stuck to it.
Why would Cain be under the protection of YVHV, then?
Ha! Great point.
Cain is under the protection of YHWH. "15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden."
It is a mark of WHWH's ownership/protection of Cain.
@@TacticusPrime Again, why would Cain be under YVHV’s protection after having offended YVHV twice in very serious ways?
@@LPandMD Again, take it up with YHWH or the text. IT says why in there. So that his punishment would not be too great so as to cause his death/murder after being banished. READ it!
@@veridicusmaximus6010 No, you are dodging the question. I did not ask if Cain was under YVHV’s protection, I asked why that was the case. If you don’t know, then you’re not compelled to post any responses. You can just walk away and let someone who does know or at least is willing to engage with the question take a chance on it. Please stop responding with “I TOLD YOU!!!” bullshit.
I am trying to take it up with the text, I just don’t understand it well enough. Why you feel like you have to bully me in response to this is beyond me. What’s wrong with you that you feel you have to come on so hard in response to a very simple, politely worded inquiry? Do you just watch too many debate videos where people tear each other apart instead of working together to find an answer to a problem? Or are you just mentally ill and randomly attack anyone you encounter online?
I mean, maybe. It seems to me that, when interpreting these old texts, we always end up making educated guesses more than definitive interpretations. People have been interpreting Revelation for thousands of years in various ways, and I don’t suspect this interpretation is necessarily what he author was thinking either. I guess what is frustrating to me when watching this video is that DM is talking as if all this is completely settled, but I think especially with scholarly writing about these topics we always end up talking in probabilities and educated guesswork, we have strong reasons to believe, a likely interpretation based on these data, this interpretation is supported by these additional practices and supporting documents, though another theory from this individual can be made based on, etc, etc. When I see someone making straight up authoritative claims like this about what Revelation definitely meant, with no admission of doubt or alternate hypotheses, I get skeptical.
He's the PhD. You're what now?
@@lysanamcmillan7972 who cares what I am? Does it matter? Having a phd doesn’t make him right. Do you not see the problem? Academia, even hard science, acts on probabilities and theories. Conclusions usually are tentative, but especially in the case of symbolic texts where we don’t even know who the author was, nor precisely when it was written! You know, phrases like: This seems to be what is happening, this experiment suggests according to this data that this interpretation is the most likely, that sort of thing. His attitude here seems to be “this is the one possible interpretation, if you believe something else you’re wrong”-and he even goes so far as to proclaim at the end that we should not allow the text to influence us today (I’m paraphrasing, but still), as if he is the authority on what everyone should believe about the text. Can you not see how this is rather a ridiculous thing to be saying, no matter how many phds or publications one might have? He doesn’t even allow the possibility that his interpretation might be wrong! He comes across like every believer in the world should just take his interpretation and believe the way he does (all billion plus believers), cut and dried, which sounds profoundly unacademic to me (I do work in academia, though in an unrelated field). You know, data over dogma, so he should be saying the data seems to suggest, not making dogmatic interpretations and demanding everyone believe like he does.
I am not even saying his interpretation is a bad one. I just wish he had gone about his explanation with a little more academic humility. Something like, “the interpretation that I favor is this because of these data points. My conclusion based on my studies leads me to believe we don’t need to worry about futurist interpretations of the text, so it’s okay to relax. However, if you are interested in other interpretations, it’s good to keep in mind these data points as you work through the interpretive difficulties, which is why I personally settle more in the preterist interpretive tradition and find futurist, historicist, and idealist interpretations overly religiously motivated for a secular, scholarly appraisal. If you are operating from a religious viewpoint, I hope you still find these data useful for you as you consider your beliefs and their origins.”
Anyway, that’s my opinion, which is not necessarily what everyone should believe. I’m not a universal authority, either :)
We know what the point and the rhetorical goals of Apocalyptic writings are. He was addressing that. He was making the point that these things aren't meant to be clearly deciphered, but to evoke emotional responses, once again based on the genre. He then covered what things were references to. The only logical goal of a modern researcher is to find what other texts and concepts the author was referencing, when it was written, and what events were happening at the time. When people try to make sense of the text as a complete narrative or prophecy, that's when the problems arrise. It's somewhat like Jabberwocky where as soon as you start to think you've made sense of the meaning, you find you've lost it again. This is why people have argued for centuries trying to make sense if it. There IS no answer, or there is no one answer. The goals were to be cryptic so they would have some sort of plausible deniability, and to make it so the intended audience would find meaning and encouragement in it.
@@LEgregius Thank you for your comment. I think when approaching a text, it's important to consider things like the genre of course, and I think that a scholar exploring the meaning of a text from possible cultural reference points is useful--but the problem is still that these are by their very nature extrapolations based on likely interpretations. The possible cultural links to things like marking people for slavery or handing over money or the Passover are all interesting and possible interpretations, but I think it is just frustrating in the way that he presents the data here. It sounds like he thinks he has it all figured out, that these are definitely the data points and obviously the conclusions are thus and there really isn't anything much to discuss. To me at least, it doesn't sound like he is approaching the text with an open mind so much as with a shut book--these are definitely what the writer had in mind, and the conclusion seems presumptive as well. Even if we agree that ultimately there is no supernatural power in the text, Revelation could still be interpreted as intending to predict the future, even if it is unsuccessful.
My objection mostly is one of stance more than content here--I am not a scholar of the Bible, but I always flinch when I meet these interpretations that are presented as straightforward fact. We don't have notes from the author on interpretation or what he (or they) were thinking, so every connection we are making has to be partially guesswork (heck, even if we did have notes from the author, we might doubt they were truthful or really from the author). And his conclusion, that we don't have to think about these things in the 20th century, doesn't feel like something aimed at secular scholars (who would not be looking for guidance from such an old text anyway), but rather towards believers. Why tell believers what they should believe about their own text? It feels like a step too far to me.
I just wish he had couched his language a bit more carefully, but... this is UA-cam. It's not really an academic roundtable.
I've already taken the Mark of the Beast so that when that Badass does materialize I'm prepared to serve the powers of darkness. 🤓
Let's hope He just asks you for a Vanilla Latte.😂
I am not digging in the bible to be connected to God. To me God means have empathy, through that you can see small miracles happen. What the Chinese with their I Ching call being in line with the universe. I think we picture God in our image, instead of the other way round, that makes God an extension of our own development. I have seen angels, had many contacts with people after they died, had visions. I understand that is what the disciples of Jesus had as well.
It all comes down to can you place yourself in someone else's shoes and do you take responsibility.
I see people of different beliefs not doing that, the biggest example is Israel at the moment.
The bible being used for peoples egoistic benefits, without there being any contact with God and humans.
I do not want to study the bible, but I am very happy you do Dan, since it is about time the real meanings become clear so the use of the bible to commit atrocities can be stopped.
I heard the coin with Nero having horns and the coin with a 7 headed dragon was created after the book of revelation, is this true?
Dan, you say that the Book of Revelation is limited to the first century, but the mark of the Beast is the one that comes out of the earth. I’m interested in how your scholarship interprets the beast from the earth and the beast from the sea. Could you explain the difference? Thanks!
Actually, the mark is from the second beast as seen in Revelation 13.
Mark of the Mr. Beast?
At 2:58 you state that the Torah declares that words were to be engravened on the RIGHT hand. The term "RIGHT" was not in the text and, in fact, based on hermeneutics, by the 1st century CE, right-handed Jews wore them on their LEFT hand, while left-handed Jews wore them on their RIGHT hand (based on the quirky different wording between the totafot and an oht). So if your focus is on a :"RIGHT HAND" association, then this passage should be discarded or ignored unless you are talking only about left-handed Jews! ;)
has this guy never heard of tattoos?
The “mark of the beast” is a red MAGA hat!
Ahhhhh certain HUMANS interpret words from “god” hmmmm that is shady af
also does 666 mean excess?
According to scholars, like Dan as an example, this would be gematria referring to “Kaiser Neron”. (Aka Emperor Nero) I think Religion For Breakfast had a video on the subject too.
I think the mark on the forehead is a red hat!
It's the smartphone. You're buying into election year bs. They aren't even good actors.
I think they like to think it is.
doesn’t this contradict the passages that say obey the government and render onto Caesar…
all three were different contexts. render to caesar was against religious nationalism. obey the government was about living in peace in society. Revelation was to help face outbursts of Roman opposition and social pressure to conform to state religion.
Yes. Yes it would.
@@solidstorm6129 Good point. It would from a fundamentalist perspective.
Lol I find it funny that revelation describes the times we live in. In great detail. Also God has made himself known to me. I was a non believer and he changed that in a second. Lol some people are going to be scratching their heads standing in front of the throne during judgment. Something has always had to exist for anything to exist. The universe has a beginning and a end. That's by design and design requires intelligence. Take a coffee cup for example, was it made or it just was? No its designed by intelligence. God reminds us he has no beginning or end he just was. Be blessed all take care
Oh dear...
People have been saying Revelations describes the times they live in for about 1900 years.
@@Alex_Mitchell@EricMcLuen ok so Israel only became a country again in the 1940s. The mark could be a cell phone, hence forehead or hand. Chariots can be cars and flying chariots can be planes. The Bible describes Current times but is 2000 years plus old . It's survived all those years when people tried to remove it from existice many times over. The revelation would not have came true until current times, mathematics are a universal law, that's by design which takes intelligence. You can fathom something can come from nothing which is impossible, but can't fathom a creator which is. Our bodies are made up of energy which can't be destroyed only transforms, we are made up of atoms that are billions of years old which also do die. Our universe has a speed limit, the speed of light, all of this is by design. You can't make something from nothing. God bless take care.
@@Alex_Mitchellatoms do not die*
@@jaxjaguarsfball1agreed so the Bible has been so well written that it can be applied through most of every generation until current times but agreed the prophecy can only be fulfilled in current times, also the ufraties river drying up is also in revelation which is happening now in current times, some of the fallen are chained there and when the river dries up completely which only in these times has it and will. Lol all glory to God and his mighty word! He that has no beginning or end! He just is.
2020
Past that
Yes, I too am a ‘scholar of the bible’😂😂
This is so far feched lol
Wouldn't be surprised to hear that mark of the beast is anti Christ
You've just ruined people's lives because they can't spread being in fear. How sad! He he.
When did we get a new heavens and new earth?
Never
This is actually one of the reasons it was rejected by early Christians. Many, including Paul, believed they would be resurrected into that world. Also, the imagery of the new Jerusalem was materialistic with golden streets and jewels. This clashed with the spiritual views of the time. Like everything in Revelation, it's meant not to be taken at face value, but as an encouragement of reward to the faithful after indulging a very violent revenge fantasy against the people persecuting them at the time.
@solidstorm6129 Lol you mean science isn't going to eventually remake reality? Sounds pretty regressive.
@@GeoffBosco with what do you have for that claim? Nothing. For we never got a new heaven and earth. And we won’t.
@@LEgregius I'm only speaking about the author's intent and what he believed was the ultimate destiny of humanity. It hasn't all come to pass according to his beliefs.
I agree with most of the things Dan is saying here, and I appreciate his rhetorical goals having grown up in a charismatic dispensationalist rapture-crazy church environment. I just think he's overplaying his hand a little bit.
You say you know the mind of God? Wow!
These videos are so useless. Show us the kriginal greek texts bro, this post 1st century stuff is irrelevant
If Jesus did not claim or believe to be God why did he allow people to worship him
We don't know that he did, all records of worship are from after his death, when he wouldn't have had a say in the matter.
Someone doesn't have to be a god to "allow" people to worship them. It's basic cult behaviour 101. It doesn't mean he was a god.
Allow ??? He jokingly tells me to save him from his followers for that, and a few other reasons. The church is not his intention, and neither is worship or organized religion.
@@digitaljanus like wdym? Can you elaborate
@@BubbaF0wpend I know. But that would atleast suggest that he believed or claimed to be God. I want to know if he did allude to the idea that he was God
Hey mate, how is InspiringPhilosophy going? He tore you to pieces in the last argument you had with him. Mate, you need to stop quote mining and start reading. I hope you have now found page 57 of the book...hahah
Hey mate. How are you going? Isn't it funny that you numbnuts stick with apologists because they tell you what you want to hear?
An apologist by definition can't be objective, because their goal is to defend their faith regardless of the facts or data. Just like those "scholars" that have to sign statements of faith.
A critical scholar, including those that are religious (Mark S Smith, Dale Allison, Thom Stark, Dan McClellan etc) follow the data where it leads, even if it goes against their religious beliefs and Dan has stated this in scholarly articles. I'd like to see IP do the same.
You people are ridiculous.
In what way was he “torn apart” by the Christian apologist? None perhaps?
@@solidstorm6129 Perhaps you should check it out. You may be shocked perhaps
I suggest you start getting more electrolytes into your body and also more sleep. Those help a lot with cognition.
I like how my previous comment was deleted.
Go and check InspiringPhilosophy out
According to the Bible itself, the final beast/global empire and its mark of allegiance and ownership is a prophesy. The books of Daniel and Revelation are talking about the same thing...
"The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[j] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’ (Daniel 7:23-27)
The fourth and final beast/global empire seems to be well established. "trample and break in pieces" fits the destructive Marxist/communist element within it. With the digital currency and identification capabilities now in existence the 'mark' is basically already here.
Says nothing about Marxist/communist elements nor modern capabilities of digital currency. Furthermore, if Rev. and Dan. are the same thing and time then Rev. told you not to seal up the prophecy of the book AS DAN. DID - why? - because the time is AT HAND. Well that was 2,000 years ago. NEXT!!
This is called negotiating with the text to justify certain beliefs that are not supported by the data in the text. You impose your preconceived ideas on a text.
@@karldehaut He does this all the time. He's beyond help.
@@LM-jz9vh I have no problem believing you because there are some clues that suggest Henry is here more for self-confirmation than for discussion.
@@karldehaut No, it's just a plain reading of the text. The information comes from the text itself.