I would say as Bethesda has gone on in the elder scrolls series that they've gone from lore heavy, roleplaying heavy, to better graphics. Which it their best equilibrium may be Morrnwind. But now things are slowly been tipping the other way. And that's what I think. While they made skyrim so wonderful to look at so wonderful to explore, their founding lore has dwindled. And like you said they are not fully explain things that really they should. Which is sad. Because those of us who would like to explore that really do deserve to have that there. Even if it takes a year or 2 to get to it.
Then what you would say is complete rubbish. The elder scrolls began as a dungeon crawler, with each new iteration the games have become increasingly less focused on dungeon crawling and more focused on immersive and complex technical simulation. Less focused on procedural elements, more focused on handcrafted roleplaying experiences or using procedural systems to bolster simulation. Skyrim was by far Bethesda's biggest game, like Morrowind it suffered huge cuts in systems, content and other elements. In Skyrim they shot for a much higher standard in quality than was set in Morrowind or Oblivion for things like quests, with most quests having complex scenes, lots of fully voiced dialogue all fully animated. I agree Skyrim dropped the ball absolutely. Bethesda need to take on smaller projects. They don't actually have a very big team, their team is about the same size as the one that made Kingdom Come Deliverance. Except instead of a 7 year development cycle, they often make games 2, 3 or 4 years apart from each other.
@@solardragon9285 Maybe, hopefully. I don't want to see AAA shenanigans from them though. What I like about microsoft right this second. Is over the last 10 or so years they've published and funded a lot of niche games. A lot of games that are absolutely not AAA games, and importantly they've been publishing proper RPGs even for the PC! Many of my favourite franchises right now are being published by Microsoft. So if Microsoft can continue to do that, then yes it is very exciting! Hopefully Bethesda will have the confidence to make something a little smaller and more polished as many of Microsoft's other games are right now.
@@7dayspking And yet Skyrim is the least complex and worst written game in the series. And in my opinion, the second least fun game in the mainline series, only Arena is less fun to play (admittedly, the gulf between skyrim and arena is massive), with Morrowind being the most fun, followed by Oblivion and Daggerfall in no particular order.
@@chstens Depends what you mean by complex. It's the most technically complex, largest game in the series. 'worst written'. Main story, potentially. But it's better in it's Dialogue and NPCs. With Arena, followed by Daggerfall and Morrowind being the worst. I won't argue what's more fun to play. Skyrim and Oblivion are definitely more accessible and control better than other games in the series though.
Personally I couldn't agree more that Bethesda really needs to put together an overarching lore book that covers general knowledge as well as maybe a few more novels covering topics in-between the major games. Maybe if Bethesda never gets around to another Elder Scrolls game, which with their slow roll lately as well as the recent disappointing releases may in fact be a reality, the people doing Beyond Skyrim and other leading modders and lore scholars should build a lore guide. Though I think the general confusion about Morrowind might come down to the fact that after the Argonians invaded they still control some parts of the south, maybe even parts of the central regions, while some Dar Elf Houses are loyal to the Empire and some houses are in effect not part of the Empire making the province a chaotic mess rather than a single province. Making everyone right and wrong at the same time about whether Morrowind is part of the Empire or not, which seems to be a Bethesda tradition following the Warp in the West where they made every ending possible canon.
You’re my Favourite TES lore you tuber cause you are consistent and straight to the point and very informed on it. In regards to the video, I think you’re very fair and valid in your speculations and if other people argue against your speculations, it’s kind of just stupid because as you stated, they are SPECULATIONS. A topic which should not be argued about to begin with as they cannot be proven not disproven. Same with the opposing speculations.
About the Concordat, the part with Dominion leaving southern cyrodiil. I do not think it was written in the treaty since its normal for belligerent sides to depart the opponents territory after peace is signed.
Spot on! When I find myself discussing lore I try my best to clarify what is established, and also source it, and then present my interpretation and often motivating that. A lot of people enter discussions (not only on TES topics) as if it's a competition to be won, when I rather see it as an exchange of perspective and interpretation that can expand my own thoughts on a subject.
Honestly, not everything has to be explained or at least presented directly, but I agree that more work has to be done to avoid some fan fiction nonsense and HeAdCAnoN claimed as canon lore cough coda crap cough .
@@7dayspking No need to call him an idiot. Bethesda is quite lazy, and this is just the truth.They don't want to change the engine, that is already over 20 years old (and as far as I know they will use it for Starfield and TES VI), the games have been kinda decreasing in quality, in some ways, because a lot of stuff has been taken out.Skyrim really needs Oblivion's skill system (altough I kinda like Skyrim's system, I would like to see the other one in Skyrim), but of course with some changes, and probably also needs the amount of Armor/Weapons/Spells from Morrowind. I'm not even talking about Fallout, F4 was boring as hell, it was just really bad, compared to New Vegas, and Bethesda didn't even make that game, F76 is still a disaster, they didn't even try with that one.
@@thund3rbird738 You're right, you're an idiot too. 'It's known bethesda are lazy' by idiots who pretend to know what they can't really know and cannot show. That sums up about every claim made in your comment. 'Bethesda don't want to change a 20 year old engine', they've changed the engine for every single game, not that you know a damn thing about engines. 'games have decreased in quality', in what measurable way?
@@7dayspking They have continously updated the same engine they've been using since Morrowind, they have never moved over to a different one. And Skyrims writing is lazy, because the creative lead thinks "keep it simple, stupid" is a good approach to storytelling. As for all the other shit that can be construed as lazy, such as tiny towns, trash copypaste dungeons etc. I hope that's because of technical limitations and nothing else. Either way, Skyrim is the worst of them, still fun for a longass time, but complete uninteresting anti-fun compared to other entries. I really have no hopes what so ever for TES6, with Bethesdas trajectory it will be even less of an rpg than fallout 4 and 76, with a story so bad you wouldnt wipe your ass with it.
I mean its not like we know everything about our history its normal for their to blanks the lore of tes would be a lot more boring if we had all the answers
@@ciaranmck4469 we cannot know everything about our history. Van we know all about a fictional world? Would it be ok for me to write a poorly fleshed out fictional piece and then say that I can't know everything in it because it's like our history? That's just very weak.
Elder Scrolls lore is incredible but it does have it's short comings. I personally think the reason certain things are vauge is beacuse Skyrim was forced to meet that 11/11/11 release date.
Every game has a release date but your assumption is one of the few reasonable ones in any discussion about Skyrim. Skyrim has more lines of voiced dialogue alone than TW3 does, the total writing in Skyrim likely doubles that of TW3. Skyrim's main story itself isn't particularly long and substantial, you can see they spread that writing as far as they could probably for the worse. What they're doing is just too big reasonably for a team their size. Roughly 100 people made Skyrim. About 20 times that number of people made TW3 for comparison. If Bethesda focus their writing rather than making everything so extremely complicated then maybe less people will be thinking of the lore to complain about it and we'll get better stories.
I like there are different senarios to every event. Make it feel like it is an actual world since history IS part subjective , one culture can interprite or warp events very differently then another. Although a little more info would be nice. And integrate eso part of the lore. Please let them do ot it is so good.
You have a point. Lately Bethestha don't care so much about world building. In Daggerfall/Morrowind they worked very hard to explain the state of the world and the events important for the citizens of Tambriel.Oblivion simplified the lore in many ways. And Skyrim world building is full of incosistencies and plot holes.We, TES fans should boycott microtransactions and the latest content they are making. Make them earn less money until they learn complex world building make good videogames.
What you're saying is nonsense. Asking Bethesda to create something bigger, to keep track of even more is asking for increasingly less polished and more mediocre releases.
@@7dayspking what you're saying is nonsense. If they can't make games so big, then why are they doing bs mmorpgs? They spend the majority of the resources on graphics and neglect the world building, and that's nothing to do with the scope of the games.
@@josecipriano3048 BGS didn't develope an MMO and ESO was not nearly as large on it's release. That isn't how MMOs work. Why would development of 'graphics' take away resources from 'world building'? You're talking about basically different departments. Unless you're talking about allocation of funding or resources to those different areas. Perhaps world building like this wasn't at the core of the direction of the game. Unfortunate for those that expected that.
i think a lot of the inconsistencies has to do with them not wanting to have player choices be considered canon or not. like, we know the big strokes but players can change the politics by killing powerful characters in optional quests. like we dont know if vivek is dead or not, just that the ministry of truth fell because there's variables there that we just dont know, like whether he was killed or his powers just faded away. skyrim doesnt discuss oblivion, oblivion doesnt discuss morrowind, morrowind doesnt discuss daggerfall--big meaningful things are up in the air because the games are so contained & isolated because of what _could_ happen.
Glorious glorious CHIM, ZEROSUM! MAIN CHARACTERS ALWAYS IN DUNGEON! You see. Akatosh a god worshipped by Men actually hates them and their creator Shezarr! Or the fact that there's no proper line of Rulers outside Skyrim and Cyrodiil! That is a problem I have! All this CHIM and ZEROSUM destroys my immersion in the Aurbis or the fact that Dunmer and the Guilds would care for big Rulers and record them, Alfonso VI Fernandez Jimena was Emperor of Hispania. Check his wiki article I didn't expect to see a medieval article this long! Or the four Isles that Uriel V of Cyrodiil conquered. WHOOPS We forgot to write some lore books on it! Sowwy uwu Anyways Tolkien's Legendarium and Martin's Game of Thrones are better and more consistent and more likely objectively better
It's just a completely different design philosophy with them. Morrowind had you as a character who was part of this world, and the world of the lore was the game world, you could explore them simultaneously and things made sense. Skyrim is just a movie story about an epic hero, and the world is just background, everything apart from major characters like Ulfric is just filler, while Morrowind's factions, history religions and magic were the heart of the setting. Todd doesn't care about making the lore make sense, just as George Lucas didn't need to write the backstory of the characters in the cantina, they're just background and it doesn't affect their primary goal of turning a profit.
For me i think Bethesda writers team are doing a awful job on writing the lore in the modern Elder Scrolls and fallout too . like Emil Pagliarulo he in my judgment he is terrible writer in many modern games but he is one out many writers at Bethesda who are doing a lazy job at building the new lore in the game and also i think they know that many will buy their game no matter .
@@valdimardotof930 i know he not main writer of the lore but when it come to writing he not good at in my judgment . does Bethesda had a main writer of the lore of modern Elder Scrolls and fallout? or do they have a team of writers come up with the lore in newer games i do not know i was saying that Bethesda writers team are doing a awful job on writing the lore .
No one's being lazy even if hey are making mistakes. Bethesda probably weren't really investing into a writing team until especially Fallout 4. The original elder scrolls games didn't exactly have a foundation in writing. Projects are getting bigger and more complicated and the more games they make the more complex and difficult to track the 'lore' becomes, as well as a constantly cycling team of developers
Makes me wish they'd care for the franchise. It's bad enough every game has wildly divurgent lore and at first it seems clever. Oh that guy in that previous game though Cyrodil was a jungle but psyche there was probably deliberately false narration or a dragon break, psyche look at Oblivion its not a rainforest tee-hee I'm such a clever writer. Look at you guessing wrong because I told you it WAS a rainforest. Haha stupid consumer I'm the loremaster! - That's how it comes across to me. If they pull this shit in ES:6 I'm never buying one again, then again given how long its been since Skyrim I'll be in my mid 30's before we even get confirmation of ES:6 and probably dead before ES:7 gets announced. So maybe its no loss. They'll be making a mistake if they half arse the next game, people won't just buy it because it's Bethesda. Not after Fallout 4's absolute shit plot and Fallout76. I still can't reconcile ESO's lorebreaks myself. Makes it hard to invest in the series especially after reading the books and getting even more "Wtf how was this not mentioned?" stories like the floating city of Umbriel.
They do care, dozens of people spend half a decade of their lives on each of these games. Often having to accept that the game is going to ship with a lot of the work they did not even in the final game and falling far short of their ambitions.
Well, Bethesda already said they don't really care to much about sticking to lore per say, it's more about the gameplay nd stuff. So my Hope's for TES 6 are already dashed 😔
@@zombiegameruk That's a real shame because the main appeal for me and a lot of people is the rich lore and backstory available. Just shitting on previous games lore like ESO did really does not sit well with me and ultimately contributed to me ditching the game in disappointment and frustration. Anyone thats played it knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Personally im more annoyed by the writing for the games story- or rather the complete lack of emotion and weight to many of the quests that are done- there's no choice or bad decisions that can be made in most of the game, and when it's done it's so unambiguous that it feels silly. I wish that small choices existed but they don't. For me it really kills the longevity of the game, especially without mods. I do love Skyrim but it's more like sandbox than an RPG.
I disagree totally that it isn't 'an RPG', I agree it is leaning towards sandbox RPG or traditional roleplaying. As video games were basically the first media where roleplaying experiences were created through substantial narratives. Roleplaying itself being just to act as another person or character.
I wish Tes 6 took place in black marsh and the Morrowind mainland post Argonian invasion. We have already seen Daggerfall in a Tes game, the Blackmarsh and the mainland is totally new.
It's hard to ensure that all quest-lines and dialogue are lore accurate when you only have a limited time to check it over. Vagueness ensures that fewer things will be glaringly contradictory. Still, it's frustrating when it is something that should be common knowledge. Personally, I explain some of the inconsistencies as people being mistaken or not having heard about recent events. Some people saying Morrowind belongs to the empire while others say the opposite sounds a lot like Morrowind's position changed very recently, and not everyone has heard about the change yet. The White Gold Concordant is harder to explain. It feels like the writers only focused on the terms of the treaty that would have a big impact on the story, and forgot the rest. I agree that the Thalmor at least should have a very good grasp of the treaty's details, since it would protect them from criticism.
Keep in mind that a lot of writing was cut from Skyrim and all of the ES games along with the content they were attached to. It's misguided to assume that everything which comes to your mind when analyzing a game was considered or deliberately orchestrated by the developers or was the focus of the game's design. What's being criticized is a lack of word on whether Morrowind is part of the Empire, not inconsistency. Consider this. There wasn't enough time and resources for Bethesda to build the game they wanted, That the game they managed to ship was far too small, simultaneously spread 'too thin' and insubstantial to meet the expectations of many fans despite being Bethesda's largest project. Enriching the actual playable game space needs to come first, it's already commonly argued that Skyrim's game world itself was spread too thin. Things need to be prioritized. Whether a completely different province than the game is set in and which plays almost no part in any of the game's stories and has not featured in a Bethesda game since Arena is part of the empire or not is hardly one of those priorities. Remember that the vvardenfel that featured in the game Morrowind was burned to ash which they did cover in about as much detail as you could reasonably expect.
@@7dayspking how's fault is it that some content was not included in the game? Are we suppose to know the lore that we've never been shown? We've been 11 years without a real (non-bs mmo or card game) TES, I'd like to see your excuse for when they release TES6.
@@josecipriano3048 Reading back through my comment, I don't see any excuses or shifting of blame. People are complaining about the state of Bethesda's work, they're aiming their criticism in the right direction.
And all that's without even really getting into the topics of game lore versus book lore, unreliable narrators, what can/can't be considered "canon", the basic physics of the universe, and so on!
While I certainly agree with this video, as I study the Elder Scrolls lore pretty religiously at this point and wish there to be more explanations in the lore, I find some personal fun in speculating these aspects. I believe the common citizen of Tamriel, especially in a time of turbulence and unrest, wouldn't know the exact reasons why certain things happen the way they do, or what became of certain territories, and so they would speculate between their fellow folk. Morrowind was decimated by a volcanic eruption, the very Empire they swore allegiance to is gone along with the living Gods that agreed to this allegiance, they were invaded by Argonians, were forced into poverty when they tried to migrate, and Azura knows what else. I, roleplaying as a citizen, along with the other citizens in game, would likely not get a clear answer either. Who would they ask? The random Dunmer living on the streets? The Aldmeri Dominion? No, they would be too busy living their lives to search deeply for an answer that is probably still up for debate. The exact clauses of the White-Gold Concordant is a similar problem. The only people who would know are the highest Thalmor and Imperial Officials, while all pertinent laws and clauses that concern the "common rabble" would be given, but nothing more. This political obscurity leaves room for great conspiracies and theories, which in my opinion are very immersive. I doubt a common person who is either working in a mine or adventuring for wealth would know all the reasons why the "powers that be" function. It's a great avenue for realistic frustration as you try to figure out why these political figures are making these decisions. In conclusion, I don't think that the assertion that "certain things aren't explained fully, even if they should" is wrong. I am in 100% agreement on that. What I personally disagree with is that these things not being explained to everyone or being common knowledge in an already fractured and confused Empire is unimmersive. I don't know everything that goes on in my country's leadership in real life, why would I know when roleplaying in a simulated life? All in all, I love this video and all your videos. Your unbiased and clean representation of all facets of Elder Scrolls lore is the best I've ever seen, and I would consider you the UESP of UA-cam. I just got into your channel recently, and I am happy about how you go over things that I love to study with such great accuracy. This long comment wasn't to disparage or bring any negativity, I just love the discussion potential of the Elder Scrolls and love this channel. Keep up the great work as always, and I can't wait to unhealthily binge all these while playing Daggerfall later. Have a great day any and all who got through this fucking essay of a comment lol.
Morrowind left the empire after the Oblivion Crisis because the empire ordered its legions there to return and defend the Imperial city . Thus , leaving the 5 houses to lead the wounded province. The Dlc Dragonborn provided important insights into the matter with the quest of the traitors from the sixth house .
history always contradicts itself in lotr it works well in tes it works decently not everything is supposed to be a clear cut answer cause wheres the fun in that even in our own history there are a few thing we will never know cause there is so many different accounts of what might of happend
The problem is that they build the lore to fit the games instead of making the games to fit the lore, like Eslweyr in TESO, everything they made about the khajit in that game felt so bullshit, I mean its kind of cool but it just felt soo... half thought, I mean the Alfiq just felt like a race made to sell, wich Bethesda being Bethesda it wouldnt surpriseme if they added something like that to the lore just to make a very marketable race, the first time a saw one I actually thought they were very cute but it just didint felt like something I would see in The Elder Scrolls, also because they were never mentioned before TESO. Oh well lets see what Microsoft does to the IP from now on, I hope it doesnt end like Warcraft, wich knowing the game industrie it most likely will
yeah not everything has to be explained like in real life theres a lot we don't know about ancient humans it just makes more sense leaving stuff blank cause that happens in real life
How does the character creation affects things in places the player never goes? How does whatever you do in Skyrim affects whatever is going on in Morrowind?
This problem is called the unreliable narrator and when you’re arguing with people about TES Lore most about of the time you’ll be using biased information from biased people in the lore. In truth, most TES lore shouldn’t be taken as fact, only what you see for yourself in game is what can be actually proven.
Most people who live in the Elder Scrolls world are idiots. The people who have the knowledge are those in positions of power, and they quite often use it to push propaganda. Imperial Scholars are the most infamous example, The Pocket Guides to the Empire lie a lot about the different cultures and people of Tamriel in order to push a pro imperial stance. This is by design by Bethesda’s lore writers in order to create realism.
You should definitely do a "plot holes and inconsistencies in The elder Scrolls lore" video. It would bring this type of thing to light.
That intro is still legendary
Imperial Knowledge V: Legendary edition. Find it re-released everywhere, on Pc, PS, Xbox and more.
This confusion is probably all part of the thalmor’s plan. Talos smite them!
I don't think I have ever heard him this pissed in a video. R u okay? lmao
I'm fine don't worry. Wasn't my intention! :(
@@ImperialKnowledge I know your pain brother. Don't think Bethesda will do well for making ES6. More like Skyrim 3.
@@ImperialKnowledge On the other hand, your presentation has gotten a lot more clearer and *stronger* compared to videos from like 2018
I would say as Bethesda has gone on in the elder scrolls series that they've gone from lore heavy, roleplaying heavy, to better graphics. Which it their best equilibrium may be Morrnwind. But now things are slowly been tipping the other way. And that's what I think. While they made skyrim so wonderful to look at so wonderful to explore, their founding lore has dwindled. And like you said they are not fully explain things that really they should. Which is sad. Because those of us who would like to explore that really do deserve to have that there. Even if it takes a year or 2 to get to it.
Then what you would say is complete rubbish. The elder scrolls began as a dungeon crawler, with each new iteration the games have become increasingly less focused on dungeon crawling and more focused on immersive and complex technical simulation. Less focused on procedural elements, more focused on handcrafted roleplaying experiences or using procedural systems to bolster simulation.
Skyrim was by far Bethesda's biggest game, like Morrowind it suffered huge cuts in systems, content and other elements. In Skyrim they shot for a much higher standard in quality than was set in Morrowind or Oblivion for things like quests, with most quests having complex scenes, lots of fully voiced dialogue all fully animated.
I agree Skyrim dropped the ball absolutely. Bethesda need to take on smaller projects. They don't actually have a very big team, their team is about the same size as the one that made Kingdom Come Deliverance. Except instead of a 7 year development cycle, they often make games 2, 3 or 4 years apart from each other.
@@7dayspking Maybe being bought by microsoft will change a few things for the better.
@@solardragon9285 Maybe, hopefully. I don't want to see AAA shenanigans from them though.
What I like about microsoft right this second. Is over the last 10 or so years they've published and funded a lot of niche games. A lot of games that are absolutely not AAA games, and importantly they've been publishing proper RPGs even for the PC!
Many of my favourite franchises right now are being published by Microsoft. So if Microsoft can continue to do that, then yes it is very exciting! Hopefully Bethesda will have the confidence to make something a little smaller and more polished as many of Microsoft's other games are right now.
@@7dayspking And yet Skyrim is the least complex and worst written game in the series. And in my opinion, the second least fun game in the mainline series, only Arena is less fun to play (admittedly, the gulf between skyrim and arena is massive), with Morrowind being the most fun, followed by Oblivion and Daggerfall in no particular order.
@@chstens Depends what you mean by complex. It's the most technically complex, largest game in the series.
'worst written'. Main story, potentially. But it's better in it's Dialogue and NPCs. With Arena, followed by Daggerfall and Morrowind being the worst.
I won't argue what's more fun to play. Skyrim and Oblivion are definitely more accessible and control better than other games in the series though.
Heres a question for a video what happened to the traditional nord pantheon.
Bethesda : "Oblivion Crisis :^) " *That's their excuse*
Still worshipped on Solstheim just like it was in Morrowind. Skyrim is an imperial province.
they stopped worshipping them cause of imperial influence and they had a fucking dragon war
that's why they dont use the traditional pantheon
@@IamaDinosaur dude think trauma bonding on an international level of demonic slaughter
Personally I couldn't agree more that Bethesda really needs to put together an overarching lore book that covers general knowledge as well as maybe a few more novels covering topics in-between the major games.
Maybe if Bethesda never gets around to another Elder Scrolls game, which with their slow roll lately as well as the recent disappointing releases may in fact be a reality, the people doing Beyond Skyrim and other leading modders and lore scholars should build a lore guide.
Though I think the general confusion about Morrowind might come down to the fact that after the Argonians invaded they still control some parts of the south, maybe even parts of the central regions, while some Dar Elf Houses are loyal to the Empire and some houses are in effect not part of the Empire making the province a chaotic mess rather than a single province. Making everyone right and wrong at the same time about whether Morrowind is part of the Empire or not, which seems to be a Bethesda tradition following the Warp in the West where they made every ending possible canon.
Well looks like you hit 30k, I'm so pride so I can wait for 50k till 100k but keep doing the videos and keep going on
Zork gave you a heart phil be happy
@@americanpride8441 i will XD
Brock Rohl you know my correct name is John Kent!
@@americanpride8441 Yes my liege
You’re my Favourite TES lore you tuber cause you are consistent and straight to the point and very informed on it.
In regards to the video, I think you’re very fair and valid in your speculations and if other people argue against your speculations, it’s kind of just stupid because as you stated, they are SPECULATIONS. A topic which should not be argued about to begin with as they cannot be proven not disproven. Same with the opposing speculations.
About the Concordat, the part with Dominion leaving southern cyrodiil. I do not think it was written in the treaty since its normal for belligerent sides to depart the opponents territory after peace is signed.
it's a formality it's what happend in medieval europe and asia when war broke out between kingdoms
Spot on! When I find myself discussing lore I try my best to clarify what is established, and also source it, and then present my interpretation and often motivating that. A lot of people enter discussions (not only on TES topics) as if it's a competition to be won, when I rather see it as an exchange of perspective and interpretation that can expand my own thoughts on a subject.
Honestly, not everything has to be explained or at least presented directly, but I agree that more work has to be done to avoid some fan fiction nonsense and HeAdCAnoN claimed as canon lore cough coda crap cough .
I see. Honestly, Bethesda is either trolling or just lazy (probably a mix of both, they're well known for both trolling and being lazy).
You're an idiot. They take on among the most ambitious projects in the industry, that is not lazy.
@@7dayspking No need to call him an idiot. Bethesda is quite lazy, and this is just the truth.They don't want to change the engine, that is already over 20 years old (and as far as I know they will use it for Starfield and TES VI), the games have been kinda decreasing in quality, in some ways, because a lot of stuff has been taken out.Skyrim really needs Oblivion's skill system (altough I kinda like Skyrim's system, I would like to see the other one in Skyrim), but of course with some changes, and probably also needs the amount of Armor/Weapons/Spells from Morrowind.
I'm not even talking about Fallout, F4 was boring as hell, it was just really bad, compared to New Vegas, and Bethesda didn't even make that game, F76 is still a disaster, they didn't even try with that one.
@@thund3rbird738 You're right, you're an idiot too. 'It's known bethesda are lazy' by idiots who pretend to know what they can't really know and cannot show. That sums up about every claim made in your comment.
'Bethesda don't want to change a 20 year old engine', they've changed the engine for every single game, not that you know a damn thing about engines.
'games have decreased in quality', in what measurable way?
@@7dayspking for the record they have been reusing the same engine since Morrowind, but they did update it for skyrim/fo4
@@7dayspking They have continously updated the same engine they've been using since Morrowind, they have never moved over to a different one. And Skyrims writing is lazy, because the creative lead thinks "keep it simple, stupid" is a good approach to storytelling. As for all the other shit that can be construed as lazy, such as tiny towns, trash copypaste dungeons etc. I hope that's because of technical limitations and nothing else. Either way, Skyrim is the worst of them, still fun for a longass time, but complete uninteresting anti-fun compared to other entries. I really have no hopes what so ever for TES6, with Bethesdas trajectory it will be even less of an rpg than fallout 4 and 76, with a story so bad you wouldnt wipe your ass with it.
If the divines personality’s depend on the mortals understanding of them. Maybe the true history is also up to those currently alive.
Beth's excuse for lore inconsistencies: Dragon breaks
And "unreliable narrator".
That's like saying that my excuse for crashing a car was being drunk
I mean its not like we know everything about our history its normal for their to blanks
the lore of tes would be a lot more boring if we had all the answers
@@ciaranmck4469 we cannot know everything about our history. Van we know all about a fictional world? Would it be ok for me to write a poorly fleshed out fictional piece and then say that I can't know everything in it because it's like our history? That's just very weak.
Elder Scrolls lore is incredible but it does have it's short comings. I personally think the reason certain things are vauge is beacuse Skyrim was forced to meet that 11/11/11 release date.
Every game has a release date but your assumption is one of the few reasonable ones in any discussion about Skyrim. Skyrim has more lines of voiced dialogue alone than TW3 does, the total writing in Skyrim likely doubles that of TW3. Skyrim's main story itself isn't particularly long and substantial, you can see they spread that writing as far as they could probably for the worse.
What they're doing is just too big reasonably for a team their size. Roughly 100 people made Skyrim. About 20 times that number of people made TW3 for comparison.
If Bethesda focus their writing rather than making everything so extremely complicated then maybe less people will be thinking of the lore to complain about it and we'll get better stories.
@@7dayspking your talking about complicated stories? try playing call of duty zombies
Great points made throughout this video
And congrats on 30k subs.
I like there are different senarios to every event. Make it feel like it is an actual world since history IS part subjective , one culture can interprite or warp events very differently then another. Although a little more info would be nice. And integrate eso part of the lore. Please let them do ot it is so good.
Damn, I never considered this. You make some good points
Daddy zork I need to advise you upon a video. We need details on the first aldmeri dominion how it’s different from the second one etc
You have a point. Lately Bethestha don't care so much about world building. In Daggerfall/Morrowind they worked very hard to explain the state of the world and the events important for the citizens of Tambriel.Oblivion simplified the lore in many ways. And Skyrim world building is full of incosistencies and plot holes.We, TES fans should boycott microtransactions and the latest content they are making. Make them earn less money until they learn complex world building make good videogames.
What you're saying is nonsense. Asking Bethesda to create something bigger, to keep track of even more is asking for increasingly less polished and more mediocre releases.
@@7dayspking what you're saying is nonsense. If they can't make games so big, then why are they doing bs mmorpgs? They spend the majority of the resources on graphics and neglect the world building, and that's nothing to do with the scope of the games.
@@josecipriano3048 BGS didn't develope an MMO and ESO was not nearly as large on it's release. That isn't how MMOs work.
Why would development of 'graphics' take away resources from 'world building'? You're talking about basically different departments. Unless you're talking about allocation of funding or resources to those different areas.
Perhaps world building like this wasn't at the core of the direction of the game. Unfortunate for those that expected that.
i think a lot of the inconsistencies has to do with them not wanting to have player choices be considered canon or not. like, we know the big strokes but players can change the politics by killing powerful characters in optional quests. like we dont know if vivek is dead or not, just that the ministry of truth fell because there's variables there that we just dont know, like whether he was killed or his powers just faded away.
skyrim doesnt discuss oblivion, oblivion doesnt discuss morrowind, morrowind doesnt discuss daggerfall--big meaningful things are up in the air because the games are so contained & isolated because of what _could_ happen.
The Elder scrolls would benefit from more cannon novels. I would love to see books that expand on things from the merethic, and first era.
Glorious glorious CHIM, ZEROSUM! MAIN CHARACTERS ALWAYS IN DUNGEON! You see. Akatosh a god worshipped by Men actually hates them and their creator Shezarr! Or the fact that there's no proper line of Rulers outside Skyrim and Cyrodiil! That is a problem I have! All this CHIM and ZEROSUM destroys my immersion in the Aurbis or the fact that Dunmer and the Guilds would care for big Rulers and record them, Alfonso VI Fernandez Jimena was Emperor of Hispania. Check his wiki article I didn't expect to see a medieval article this long! Or the four Isles that Uriel V of Cyrodiil conquered. WHOOPS We forgot to write some lore books on it! Sowwy uwu
Anyways Tolkien's Legendarium and Martin's Game of Thrones are better and more consistent and more likely objectively better
It's just a completely different design philosophy with them. Morrowind had you as a character who was part of this world, and the world of the lore was the game world, you could explore them simultaneously and things made sense. Skyrim is just a movie story about an epic hero, and the world is just background, everything apart from major characters like Ulfric is just filler, while Morrowind's factions, history religions and magic were the heart of the setting. Todd doesn't care about making the lore make sense, just as George Lucas didn't need to write the backstory of the characters in the cantina, they're just background and it doesn't affect their primary goal of turning a profit.
For me i think Bethesda writers team are doing a awful job on writing the lore in the modern Elder Scrolls and fallout too .
like Emil Pagliarulo he in my judgment he is terrible writer in many modern games but he is one out many writers at Bethesda who are doing a lazy job at building the new lore in the game and also i think they know that many will buy their game no matter .
he is not the main writer of the lore, do you know any writer beside him?
@@valdimardotof930 i know he not main writer of the lore but when it come to writing he not good at in my judgment . does Bethesda had a main writer of the lore of modern Elder Scrolls and fallout? or do they have a team of writers come up with the lore in newer games i do not know i was saying that Bethesda writers team are doing a awful job on writing the lore .
No one's being lazy even if hey are making mistakes. Bethesda probably weren't really investing into a writing team until especially Fallout 4. The original elder scrolls games didn't exactly have a foundation in writing.
Projects are getting bigger and more complicated and the more games they make the more complex and difficult to track the 'lore' becomes, as well as a constantly cycling team of developers
Makes me wish they'd care for the franchise. It's bad enough every game has wildly divurgent lore and at first it seems clever. Oh that guy in that previous game though Cyrodil was a jungle but psyche there was probably deliberately false narration or a dragon break, psyche look at Oblivion its not a rainforest tee-hee I'm such a clever writer. Look at you guessing wrong because I told you it WAS a rainforest. Haha stupid consumer I'm the loremaster! - That's how it comes across to me. If they pull this shit in ES:6 I'm never buying one again, then again given how long its been since Skyrim I'll be in my mid 30's before we even get confirmation of ES:6 and probably dead before ES:7 gets announced. So maybe its no loss. They'll be making a mistake if they half arse the next game, people won't just buy it because it's Bethesda. Not after Fallout 4's absolute shit plot and Fallout76. I still can't reconcile ESO's lorebreaks myself. Makes it hard to invest in the series especially after reading the books and getting even more "Wtf how was this not mentioned?" stories like the floating city of Umbriel.
Personally I didn't mind the Cyrodill CHIM retcon
They do care, dozens of people spend half a decade of their lives on each of these games. Often having to accept that the game is going to ship with a lot of the work they did not even in the final game and falling far short of their ambitions.
Well, Bethesda already said they don't really care to much about sticking to lore per say, it's more about the gameplay nd stuff. So my Hope's for TES 6 are already dashed 😔
@@zombiegameruk That's a real shame because the main appeal for me and a lot of people is the rich lore and backstory available. Just shitting on previous games lore like ESO did really does not sit well with me and ultimately contributed to me ditching the game in disappointment and frustration. Anyone thats played it knows exactly what I'm talking about.
@@7dayspking having a job doesn't mean you care about what you do.
Bethesda should lower the price of their games, since half the world building is done by the players themselves.
Personally im more annoyed by the writing for the games story- or rather the complete lack of emotion and weight to many of the quests that are done- there's no choice or bad decisions that can be made in most of the game, and when it's done it's so unambiguous that it feels silly. I wish that small choices existed but they don't. For me it really kills the longevity of the game, especially without mods. I do love Skyrim but it's more like sandbox than an RPG.
I disagree totally that it isn't 'an RPG', I agree it is leaning towards sandbox RPG or traditional roleplaying. As video games were basically the first media where roleplaying experiences were created through substantial narratives. Roleplaying itself being just to act as another person or character.
Good video
I wish Tes 6 took place in black marsh and the Morrowind mainland post Argonian invasion.
We have already seen Daggerfall in a Tes game, the Blackmarsh and the mainland is totally new.
yer we could have a game set in south morrowind and north east black marsh ( most of black marsh is practically just death it self for other races)
@@ciaranmck4469 I actually would love some of inner blackmash because of the toxic swamp gives me blightown vibes from darksouls.
It's hard to ensure that all quest-lines and dialogue are lore accurate when you only have a limited time to check it over. Vagueness ensures that fewer things will be glaringly contradictory. Still, it's frustrating when it is something that should be common knowledge.
Personally, I explain some of the inconsistencies as people being mistaken or not having heard about recent events. Some people saying Morrowind belongs to the empire while others say the opposite sounds a lot like Morrowind's position changed very recently, and not everyone has heard about the change yet.
The White Gold Concordant is harder to explain. It feels like the writers only focused on the terms of the treaty that would have a big impact on the story, and forgot the rest. I agree that the Thalmor at least should have a very good grasp of the treaty's details, since it would protect them from criticism.
Keep in mind that a lot of writing was cut from Skyrim and all of the ES games along with the content they were attached to.
It's misguided to assume that everything which comes to your mind when analyzing a game was considered or deliberately orchestrated by the developers or was the focus of the game's design.
What's being criticized is a lack of word on whether Morrowind is part of the Empire, not inconsistency.
Consider this. There wasn't enough time and resources for Bethesda to build the game they wanted, That the game they managed to ship was far too small, simultaneously spread 'too thin' and insubstantial to meet the expectations of many fans despite being Bethesda's largest project.
Enriching the actual playable game space needs to come first, it's already commonly argued that Skyrim's game world itself was spread too thin. Things need to be prioritized. Whether a completely different province than the game is set in and which plays almost no part in any of the game's stories and has not featured in a Bethesda game since Arena is part of the empire or not is hardly one of those priorities.
Remember that the vvardenfel that featured in the game Morrowind was burned to ash which they did cover in about as much detail as you could reasonably expect.
@@7dayspking how's fault is it that some content was not included in the game? Are we suppose to know the lore that we've never been shown? We've been 11 years without a real (non-bs mmo or card game) TES, I'd like to see your excuse for when they release TES6.
@@josecipriano3048 Reading back through my comment, I don't see any excuses or shifting of blame.
People are complaining about the state of Bethesda's work, they're aiming their criticism in the right direction.
kind of an "unreliable narrator" type situation. you're just going by what those who live in the world say, not "facts" by the creators of tes
And all that's without even really getting into the topics of game lore versus book lore, unreliable narrators, what can/can't be considered "canon", the basic physics of the universe, and so on!
While I certainly agree with this video, as I study the Elder Scrolls lore pretty religiously at this point and wish there to be more explanations in the lore, I find some personal fun in speculating these aspects. I believe the common citizen of Tamriel, especially in a time of turbulence and unrest, wouldn't know the exact reasons why certain things happen the way they do, or what became of certain territories, and so they would speculate between their fellow folk. Morrowind was decimated by a volcanic eruption, the very Empire they swore allegiance to is gone along with the living Gods that agreed to this allegiance, they were invaded by Argonians, were forced into poverty when they tried to migrate, and Azura knows what else. I, roleplaying as a citizen, along with the other citizens in game, would likely not get a clear answer either. Who would they ask? The random Dunmer living on the streets? The Aldmeri Dominion? No, they would be too busy living their lives to search deeply for an answer that is probably still up for debate. The exact clauses of the White-Gold Concordant is a similar problem. The only people who would know are the highest Thalmor and Imperial Officials, while all pertinent laws and clauses that concern the "common rabble" would be given, but nothing more. This political obscurity leaves room for great conspiracies and theories, which in my opinion are very immersive. I doubt a common person who is either working in a mine or adventuring for wealth would know all the reasons why the "powers that be" function. It's a great avenue for realistic frustration as you try to figure out why these political figures are making these decisions. In conclusion, I don't think that the assertion that "certain things aren't explained fully, even if they should" is wrong. I am in 100% agreement on that. What I personally disagree with is that these things not being explained to everyone or being common knowledge in an already fractured and confused Empire is unimmersive. I don't know everything that goes on in my country's leadership in real life, why would I know when roleplaying in a simulated life?
All in all, I love this video and all your videos. Your unbiased and clean representation of all facets of Elder Scrolls lore is the best I've ever seen, and I would consider you the UESP of UA-cam. I just got into your channel recently, and I am happy about how you go over things that I love to study with such great accuracy. This long comment wasn't to disparage or bring any negativity, I just love the discussion potential of the Elder Scrolls and love this channel. Keep up the great work as always, and I can't wait to unhealthily binge all these while playing Daggerfall later. Have a great day any and all who got through this fucking essay of a comment lol.
Don't you understand?
IT JUST WORKS
I'll leave now...
Cool
Morrowind is probably still part of the empire, but pulled out all their support to fight the thalmor
Morrowind left the empire after the Oblivion Crisis because the empire ordered its legions there to return and defend the Imperial city . Thus , leaving the 5 houses to lead the wounded province. The Dlc Dragonborn provided important insights into the matter with the quest of the traitors from the sixth house .
If you have to talk about probabilities it's because we don't know. Exactly the point of this video.
history always contradicts itself in lotr it works well in tes it works decently not everything is supposed to be a clear cut answer cause wheres the fun in that
even in our own history there are a few thing we will never know cause there is so many different accounts of what might of happend
The problem is that they build the lore to fit the games instead of making the games to fit the lore, like Eslweyr in TESO, everything they made about the khajit in that game felt so bullshit, I mean its kind of cool but it just felt soo... half thought, I mean the Alfiq just felt like a race made to sell, wich Bethesda being Bethesda it wouldnt surpriseme if they added something like that to the lore just to make a very marketable race, the first time a saw one I actually thought they were very cute but it just didint felt like something I would see in The Elder Scrolls, also because they were never mentioned before TESO. Oh well lets see what Microsoft does to the IP from now on, I hope it doesnt end like Warcraft, wich knowing the game industrie it most likely will
The Alfiq actually existed before ESO, or at least the concept of them. Back in ES: Redguard that got added if I am correct
My guess is that they purposefully left it unfinished so that players can "finish the lore" with their character creation
yeah not everything has to be explained like in real life theres a lot we don't know about ancient humans it just makes more sense leaving stuff blank cause that happens in real life
How does the character creation affects things in places the player never goes? How does whatever you do in Skyrim affects whatever is going on in Morrowind?
This problem is called the unreliable narrator and when you’re arguing with people about TES Lore most about of the time you’ll be using biased information from biased people in the lore. In truth, most TES lore shouldn’t be taken as fact, only what you see for yourself in game is what can be actually proven.
Most people who live in the Elder Scrolls world are idiots. The people who have the knowledge are those in positions of power, and they quite often use it to push propaganda. Imperial Scholars are the most infamous example, The Pocket Guides to the Empire lie a lot about the different cultures and people of Tamriel in order to push a pro imperial stance. This is by design by Bethesda’s lore writers in order to create realism.