The Day Games Workshop Lost the 3D Printing War
Вставка
- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- Phrozen Sonic Mini 8K: phrozen3d.net/6fRox
Aqua-Gray 8K Resin: phrozen3d.net/xJJ5e
Ninjon PATREON: / ninjon
Ninjon MERCH: ninjon.creator-spring.com/
The GEAR I USE: www.ninjon.net/my-gear
MY PODCAST: Trapped Under Plastic: / trappedunderplastic
Instagram: / ninj0n
My Sonic 8k Mini Settings:
Layer Height: .03mm
Bottom Layer Count: 6
Exposure Time: 1.8s
Bottom Exposure Time: 55s
Transition Layer Count: 6
Rest Time Before Lift: 2s
Rest Time After Lift: 0s
Rest Time After Retract: 4s
Bottom Lift Distance: 6mm
Lifting Distance: 6mm
Bottom Lift Speed: 60mm/min
Lifting Speed: 60mm/min
Bottom Retract Speed: 180mm/min
Retract Speed: 180mm/min
Durgin Paint Forge (where dwarf mini comes from): www.durginpaintforge.com/
Michigan Toy Soldier (where I buy my minis and hobby products in North America!):
www.michtoy.com/
Code: NINJON2023 for an EXTRA 5% OFF! Meaning all products are 15-25% off RETAIL!
Ninjon Dry Brush Set: store.artis-opus.com/en-us/pr...
Monument Hobbies Pro Acryl: (my brushes, also paint, primer, basing paste, etc.):
monumenthobbies.com/?ref=Ninjon
10% off your total order! Enter COUPON CODE: ninjon
Element Games - (ALL your hobby needs, UK based, ships WORLDWIDE):
elementgames.co.uk/?d=10688
Use Referral Code: JON1303 for DOUBLE STORE CREDIT CRYSTALS on your first purchase!
Red Grass Games (my mini holder & wet palette)
www.redgrassgames.com/product...
AMAZON LINKS: materials I use, no extra cost to you and they give me a bit of money as a kickback (anything you buy while starting with these links, actually!):
Straight Blade Scraper: amzn.to/3Se2uMU
Mr. Hobby Mr. Dissolved Putty: amzn.to/3Fwn2sD
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Dremel - Cordless: amzn.to/43dKAM4\
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Tamiya Sprue Cutters: amzn.to/3gfvjYm
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X-acto knife: amzn.to/3EY26eO
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0:00 Intro
1:35 I Want a Toaster
2:25 The Biggest Printer Problem is SOLVED
3:47 Time and Stress Savers
6:34 What Would SINK Games Workshop
7:57 The Benefits of Painting 3D Printed
10:19 Calling All Sculptors
12:07 Painting Experiments THRIVE
13:17 Final Reveal and Thoughts
#phrozen3dpartner #Phrozen #durginpaintforge - Навчання та стиль
I'm happy to see one of my kits in your video, what a honor!
Thank you, and congrats for the awesome paintjob!
Are you tagged in the description or am I being blind?
@@ZedLeppelin1989 no tag, I searched for it myself XD. Or maybe we’re going blind together.
Durgin Paint forge please make more painting videos if you have the time. Your painting skill is amazing!
@@ZedLeppelin1989 can't see description mention however name is mentioned around 11:40 :)
Thrilled to see your models here
I would argue one of the major barriers is the resin itself, the VOCs and possible toxicity of the resin will always be a barrier to people having one in their homes, especially with pets or children. More so than the models or the ease of setting up the printer at least
There is acrylic resin if you want to, in addition it does not smell.
It really depends but that is sometimes a hurdle yeah
@@MrBlackgobbo Odorless doesn't mean hazardless.
It’s exactly why I don’t have one. I have the space and the money, just not the environment to do it hazard less. Too many pets and people in the house. It sucks cuz I have great ideas for a Sons of Horus army that a bunch of 3D printed bits would make possible!
That is really the main reason I haven't gotten a printer. If I could setup in a shed, have proper ventilation, or know the resin is safe I would have bought one years ago. The printers are only getting better and cheaper. Plastic printers are a little better with fumes but can still have some concerns. There is a lot of stuff like that in the maker or hobby space in general.
I will say a lot of people don't think or know about the VOC concerns so probably won't hold back sales. And companies are developing less smelly resins, although not necessarily safer resins.
Several Ex-Citadel sculptors have gone out on their own - some are old-school in the techniques (like Trish Carden/Footsore Miniatures) but some have transitioned to digital/STLs, like Bob Naismith.
More recently, Stephen May left Citadel/Forgeworld and started Dead Earth Miniatures. He was mostly Necromunda focussed, and he has kept that aesthetic.
There are probably others.
The Perry Brothers, the OG sculptors of Citadel.
@@Invaderzim2004 can't believe I forgot them... #facepalm
Consider wearing gloves when touching uncured prints. That is still uncured resin and it can enter thru skin contact.
Do you own a microwave? It poisons your food worse than those prints can affect you ever time you heat something in a container that's not glass.
Any studies that indicate this? Most seem to indicate that only the monomers are dangerous and once cured, those are no longer present.
Yup
Lol if you have uncured resin on your print you failed washing it.
If you clean them properly they will look flawless once dry.
@@scottyboy6269 yeah but to wash it you have to touch it, genius
A quick comment here just to say that I've been following various painting mini channels and yours has clearly stepped up in the past year or so. Videos quality, production and painting level have all steadily been improving noticeably. Can only commend the hard work, you are now at the top of my painting youtube daily check. Happy painting!
One thing you said - no GW sculptors have left and gone on their own... There is actually a former GW Forge World sculptor that has a Patreon called Stephen May / DeadEarthMiniatures
He started off offering one mini a month, but has expanded it to a couple. He only just recently started, so releases have been patchy, but I think he's hitting his stride now, and he's making some stellar nostalgic Necromunda adjacent sculpts.
A playing card works but using a silicone spatula for stirring resin was a game changer for me, especially with resins that separate a lot.
SILICONE SPATULA FROM THE DOLLAR STORE!!!!! your absolutely right!! and the resin drains off of them!!!
Grab some silicone tongs while you’re at it, and maybe a silicone mat too
Silicone spatula is a must IMO, great for stirring resin and draining the vat if you ever need to.
Pleas @Ninjon don't handle uncured resin bits with bare hands, like when you removed them from supports. Even if they are cleaned and you don't see any resin on them, the IPA have resin still in it. Wait until they have been in the curing chamber before removing gloves. Its is allergenic so maybe no reaction the first 50 times but then allergies can start to develop.
The man licks his paint brushes with paint on them, I doubt he cares even if it is dangerous.
there's a difference between acrylic paints designed to be non toxic because kids handle them and freakin reasin@@ThisisCitrus
@@ThisisCitrushe also airbrushes and apparently prints in a room with no ventilation, using only a air purifier…which doesn’t really eliminate tvocs, just the smell.
@@Cj2329 Yep cause non-toxic means it won't hurt you to consume lots of it... You ate crayons and glue as a kid didn't you?
Be careful with resin lads
My main problem with 3D printing is that I live in a city with crazy property costs and don’t have the space in my house for a full workstation. Really hope we see more maker spaces and libraries with 3D printing options available.
They take up almost no space. Even with a dedicated wash & cure station, you can fit a 3d printer and wash station in a 1ft x 2ft area.
You just need a large enough table near a window. Buy a growth tent (it can hold 2/3 printers) and a small fan to vent fumes outside (even 120mm pc fan works).
Yea what I do is in my room I put a large long table near a window, a grow tent with a fan and vent the fumes out the window. All of my workstation is on that table. Wash and cure station is all there.
Look around for a "FabLab". Those are places where you rent out machines or are allowed to use them for being a club member. Many universities have one where don't need to be a student.
"Full workstation" ? It takes up about as much space as a small airbrush setup.
Got my mars ultra 4. Got it out of the box, calibrated with the sheet. I'm on my second bottle now and had no failures what so ever. It was a breeze.
Resin Printers have mostly passed the birthing pains, We have tried and true resin formulas, incredible resolution screens that are super affordable, outside of user error most machines are going to do what they are designed to out of the box regardless of the brand (Though sticking with the well-known ones is always the safest bet for anyone new to the hobby) I myself have the Mars 4 MAX and am now going through my seventh liter of resin and the only failures I have ever had were 100% my fault.
Came here to say the same thing
I've had 3 different Elegoo Printers Mars, Mars 2 and Saturn 2. Plug and play. I really feel spoiled
@@TheTkhhwilliams Can only say the same thing for my Anycubic Photon Mono 4k and Mono X2. Literally the only failed prints I've had in 1 1/2 years of printing where ones where I
a) made my own supports / modifed existing ones too much after scaling the model in Lychee
or
b) where I Iiterally almost knocked over the table the printer was standing on, lmao
Really need more emphasis on safety. Any time you are in the same room as open resin (yes in the printer counts) you need to be wearing a respirator with VOC cartridges. The room should also be constantly vented, filtering even with active charcoal is not enough. Even cured resin should be handled with gloves until primed. If you are sanding or cutting mask up again. People are playing with fire, resin health risks are incredibly serrious
This!
Nothing but facts in this comment. @Ninjon: given your role model status in the hobby this cannot be underestimated. Even with proper safety equipment allergic build up remains a serious risk in the hobby.
That was such a cool video. Great job Ninjon 👍
I've been a supporter of artisan guild for over a year now. I love their models. Also I very quickly had to bookmark this video for reference. I love the way you painted this one.
One crucial tip that Jon skipped here, because he's a display painter more than a player:
MIX YOUR RESINS!
The Phrozen8K resin he recommends is great for capturing detail, but it's brittle. If you actually take an entire army printed with it, you're likely to come back from each game with a broken mini or two.
There's a fix: You mix in 25% Impact Onyx resin. This gives your minis enough bend and spring that they won't break during normal play any more than the high impact polystyrene plastics that sprue minis are made from. The Impact resin is STRONG, bendy stuff. You can print whiffle balls with this stuff, and knock them around. But it's expensive and requires the printer be really slowed down for it to harden. The mix of 3 parts 8K resin with 1 part Impact resin gives you the best of both worlds.
You DO have to stir it before every print, because it separates like a mofo. You might also have to make your supports SLIGHTLY thicker. The 8K resin is so precise in part because it is so rigid and brittle: It resists bending while it's being printed, so every pixel ends up exactly where you put it. When you mix in a little of the bendy Impact resin, you need thicker supports to hold the mini as firmly. And of course, you'll want to run some exposure tests to find the new settings for your mixed resin. Expect it to take about 50% longer to cure with 25% Impact resin mixed in.
This so much this. Phrozen will come with a pre mixed version of this in the near future.
The number one reason I don't give myself up to 3D printing is not having anywhere to set it up. Reason number two is knowing this would most likely become a hobby of its own and I have enough of those as it is. Maybe in 10 years or so.
@@dpedreno you can go ahead and change 'most likely' into 'most definitely' lol
@@mandasity haha I don’t doubt you. I’ve read about modding communities and whatnot. I think it’s the resin cast from Durgin Paint Forge that also gives me comfort, really great and high detail, a joy to paint. His current KS campaign has both physical and digital bundles and I’m in for the physical models. Gotta start picking up the backlog though, cause I’m pledges for all of them XD
You can add Siraya tech tenacious to your resin also. Adds a lot of flex to the print. All Siraya tech resins are really good.
Love this video! You made so many great points and it's great to see someone go through all the steps of what has always appeared as such a daunting process.
What I like most about printing is that you can use a first batch of minis to freely try out paint-schemes without fear of wasting money. Once you've found "your" scheme, you just print up another batch to paint correctly, at pretty much no additional cost.
I think the "over-detail" is a perk for most people, and I love it (even if it is more difficult for a skilled painter like you):
If you are the *paint it quick and move on type, you can ignore the extra detail.* It doesn't matter that the armor has more details, just hit it all with a metallic and move on with life.
If you are the *fast **_results_** type, ink washes are perfect cheat mode.* You can target a few areas for manual extra effort to make the overall effect seem much nicer than it really is on close inspection.
If you are the *slow perfectionist but lack artistic-painting skills, the detail gives you the perfectionism without having to mentally create it.* That's a nice de-stresser, as you don't have to worry about coming up with something that doesn't turn out and can just focus on colors and what stylistic technique you want to use. (eg realism gradiented? comic with black outlines? exaggerated lighting/coloring?)
I alternate between the fast _results,_ and perfectionist lacking skills painting. For that, I look for models that cut the detail in deep.
I play dnd a lot, and it's really a lot nicer to play when the models are easily distinguishable. For that purpose, 1 follow a 3 color rule: unpainted the model looks ok, painted 1 color the model looks slightly worse, painted 2 colors the model looks a lot worse than 1 (but is more distinguishable), and with a 3rd color the model finally starts looking much better than it started.
Painting while we play is a focus mechanism for me, so I'll swap out a model mid-play and quickly get the 3 main colors distributed so it looks better and distinguishable. Once most of the players characters are looking better at a table glance, I'll enjoying some detail work or start filling in more of the models.
I'll use a wet palate most of the time, and alu foil for the inks or metallics (I should probably get a silicone pop-it tray for those, but alu foil is cheap, on hand, and also a safe place to paint over)
PS my favorite way to hold models so far is with "quake hold" museum tack. While painting, I can stick the models at different angles, and for DND I can cut temporary cardboard bases to stick them to. It works so well, you can turn it upside down a do some light shakes without the mini falling off.
Tip: Don't try to stick the tack to the model 1st. Work the tack soft, then press on the base/flat piece, lastly stick the model down to it. (holds better and don't risk breaking the model)
Loot Studios has always blown me away with their themes and attention to detail, especially as a D&D player! Love what they come out with every month
Loot Studios have awesome models, although I’ve left the realistic fantasy aesthetic behind. I’ve found that Durgin Paint Forge or Cobra Mode’s models are more to my taste. I wonder if that has to do with my style of painting…
despite their popularity, i think they are not good at all. 28 mm models have weird body scale (mostly too skinny), overwhelmingly high details which are super tiresome to paint, not to mention shamlesly using their community to promote the company without even giving credits to the artist (often using personal photos and comments without consent). also, most latest bundles are just reworked old models. i do wanna mention that their busts and larger models are supreme and fun to paint.
Try ArchVillian if you're looking for killer stl files.
Printing & painting minis from Bite The Bullet is always a joy for me! They definitely make their minis with painters in mind.
Bite the bullet has a nice style
Forgot to list Bite the Bullet, I knew it!
8:20 So true. Just knowing you COULD get a replacement or have another go at it makes you so much more confident. That's why when I am coloring a drawing I made, I first scan the lineart. I never had to print it out for a retry, but knowing that if I mess up I won't have to start from scratch takes much pressure off me.
This is why I've taken to taking photos of my models and testing out some quick color schemes in Affinity Photo before starting painting on models that I can't really afford to mess up. Sure, I can visualize things fairly well, but layers in Affinity/Photoshop are a quick way to test things and get feedback from other people. ...and of course, this feeds well into the 3D print "just do it again" fun.
Moonlight Minis - Christine Van Patten has sculpted some of my most favorite minis from Reaper Minis. She’s now got her own line, and has been known to paint the occasional mini. Usually extremely well painted minis, at that.
I'm sure you're already somewhat aware- But PLEASE if you're going to sand down resin:
WET YOUR FILES AND SANDPAPER, resin is carcinogenic so obviously you don't want any particles in the air- so wetting your file or sand paper or even the model itself ensures it sticks to it and doesn't go airborne.
Also smaller tip, I heard some people will wash off the models with isopropryl alcohol in multiple vats- so like 3 cups of alcohol, 1. really dirty, sit it for awhile, 2nd kinda dirty, and 3rd last one is cleanest and mostly a precaution.
Anyway stay safe, nice vid.
Do you have a source for photo-resin being carcinogenic? I've tried looking into this and all I can find is that it's a respiratory, skin and eye irritant.
Some of the polymerisation agents in *some* resins are known to be carcinogenic, but that's when they're uncured.
You're looking at the material in contact with skin, you need carcinogenic database.@@hobomasterxxx
@@hobomasterxxxmost of this comes from China, so I doubt we get well designed MSDS from them... So anyone's guess I suppose
Sanding cured resin is no more dangerous than sanding plastic, end less dangerous than sanding metal.
@@thrrax all of those are dangerous to inhale, imo. No solid particulates belong in our lungs...
Awesome video, love this high light and shadow paint job!
Another amazing video! I've just recently got my Resin Printer back up and running to help bolster some Kill Team lists.
Loving printing again and the freedoms that come with it!
Everyone should listen to the point about it not being a company that creates awesome minis, it is the artists and designers that do that and those people are who we should be aiming to support.
Found a shop in my country that prints miniatures for 5 times cheaper than GW sells them.
I'm not playing warhammer, I'm painting as a hobby so for me it's prefect.
This is really the way to do it imo, just to essentially rent printer time and print off a bunch of minis for cheap without having to deal with all the extra work and overhead that comes with your own printer.
Honestly that sounds amazing so long as you can print the exact "sculps" you want for whatever given reason eg painting, game system etc...
"prints miniatures for 5 times cheaper than GW sells them."
You just described copyright infringement in the most open and shut case to ever case. Get caught stealing GW models or even worse selling stolen sculpts and you can be looking at time and a fine in most EU/US countries.
@@zaccthirkettle8209 It sounds like crime doesn't pay, but it certainly saves!
@@commentarytalk1446 I get why people steal food. I even turn a blind eye. This is so far beyond a luxury that it's incredulous and unethical.
This could not have been a better times video! I legit just purchased this same printer, and am daunted at the thought of using it. This video has given me that hype i needed to get it moving!
great video! resin printing is also very dependant on the temperature of the room you are printig in. so that would be a useful detail to add to your settings list
Artisan Guild is one of my favorite producers of fantasy miniatures. Huge variety, awesome sculpts, and an assortment of simpler as well as highly detailed models.
The quality of their supports is stellar as well. Plus PROPER file organization, others have terrible folder systems or their supports suck
May I point you into the direction of Bob Naismith's Patreon? He sculpted a huge swaithe of GW's earlier minis and the Perry Twins (Who did most of TLOTR) also release STLs. GW sculpters are doing this.
Great video!!! I have been a huge fan of yours for a long time as well as a 3d printer hobbyist for at least 12 years and own several FDM printers and 3 different resin printers, I've been resin printing for about 8 years. Resin printing has always been a bit tricky and frustrating until Phrozen came along. I got my Phrozen 8k mighty about a year ago and I can honestly say it changed the resin printing game for me drastically. When they released the wash and cure station I quickly picked one up and added that to my "arsenal". I am so glad that you released this video because resin printing still has quite the stigma for being too difficult and messy to really be worth it.
Also make your own "putty" with the resin you are using already. Mix some baby powder into the resin to get a nice putty consistency, you can vary the consistency to match what you want to do with the putty from patching the small support zits to filling in the holes you make to drain extra resin from inside the models.
Thank you for another great video and keep them coming. Love your style!
Love the lighting on that mini! Looks SO good!
I bought an Elegoo Mars 3 Pro at the beginning of this year as my first printer. It was plug & print for me, the community profile for my resin & printer in Lychee yielded perfect results from the first print on. I did a lot of calibration prints & tests, just to get the same settings as I had from the beginning with the community provided profiles in Lychee.
The most important thing imho is that you get a solid workflow and procedures for cleaning & curing that work for you, then it´s no mess and fun, not a chore ;)
And btw, I really like the models from OPR, they are great.
Great video! The freedom you feel painting something you’ve 3D printed is REAL. It also means I feel 0 trepidation handing one to my 10 year old to try out painting, too, and that’s amazing.
Same, it is so freeing and for once I'm able to properly enjoy my hobby. Not only can I print whatever 40k model I want with exactly 1:1s or redesigns readily available but being able to print various models from a wide range of IPs or unique fresh designs as well. Over a year of printing and seeing 40k Christmas boxsets being more expensive than ever, codex's being out of date and costing nearly the same as a new video game just makes me wince due to how cheap printing has been for me. It reshifted my view and relationship with the tabletop wargaming hobby and allowed me to be more adventurous and invested in it outside of a financial point of view. Allowing me to try systems like OPRs where I can have rainforest storm troopers fighting against ww2 trench soldiers with mechs has been a blast to just enjoy a game both artistically and narratively without the stress and worry over rules bloat, new models and lore to insite more spending, bi seasonal price increases every year, etc. It just lets me be happy with my hobby.
Thanks for talking about sculptors, often everybody tend to forgot those artisan, and they're "invisible" to the public. Also this episode is interesting and I hope thos wise words will be useful for the community.
Great points you made there Jon. Stuff that I've noticed myself when it comes to designing models for tabletop 3D printing, like too much detail, stuff upon stuff that will be difficult to discern and paint on the models, or low quality models that are locked to a certain scale.
What I like about 3D printing is being able to scale up my prints, which makes it easier for me to paint them.
This is a big sell for me. I’ve been able to scale up D&D characters for Enlarge spells, but also just to have decorative centre pieces not just as statue scenery but for the mantle piece too
Perfect timing, DPF has a KS campaign going on right now. Great job with the DPF 75mm dwarf! Would love to see you have a go at his Green Knight too.
For other 3D minis:
Cobra Mode - my second favorite sculptors right after Durgin Paint Forge
PreyCollection - cartoons and all things geek related I guess - TMNT models are awesome
Lord of the Print - some mind shattering minis with realistic aesthetic
Broken Anvil - hit and miss, but when they hit it's a bullseye
When you talk about balance in modeling my favorite modelers are station forge. Not too heavily detailed but they have a ton of style and movement to their poses. I especially love their corrupted guard range
I'm new to KDM and know you're a big fan. The dramatic lighting on this guy is giving me ideas on the lantern light on my survivors. I imagine you have a lot of your personal set painted but you should use your new contact info for Adam Poots and see if he'll send you a set to make some painting videos on ;)
personally, I love the sculpts that come from Battle Yak miniatures as well as Artisan Guild. Interesting models with just the right amount of detail.
you're the first creator I've seen that has actually shared their known working settings. Just wish it was for a Saturn 2. Most (almost all) creators hide their settings like it's Fight Club and stick to coy "you gotta dial in your settings buddy ;) " crap. And yes. I consider the phrase "you gotta dial in your settings" to be the "thin your paints" comment of 3d Printing. Never described how, just do it or leave the hobby.
It's "the get good" of the hobby world.
Have you checked Lychee Slicer? In the slicer you can configure your printer and resin, and then you'll see configs by other users and a confidence rating on how well it works. That's often an excellent starting point to fine tune (if need be).
@@privat9605 yes. yes I have. It didn't really help.
I'm mainly an elegoo user. Mars 3 Pro settings work for me on Saturn 2. Lychee slicer times can be off, but the prints are spot-on. All my Elegoo fails were always the same issue with the fep so I upgraded to PCS PFA liner and had zero issues since. You should be subbed to Uncle Jessy if you're elegoo by the way
The main reason you have to dial in your settings on printers is largely due to resin type and opacity, and inconsistencies in the printers themselves. There are tons of guides on how to dial in your settings out there. And tons of prebuilt settings for various resins on the market. But every printer is different, and thus requires dialing in. What works on my Mono X doesn't work on my Mono X2, even if every other variable is the same. Even the ambient temperature can change your your exposure times and the quality of the print.
PA-CHOW - so happy to see the fellow gamer love here. Thanks for the great video. You're so right about 3D printing. It's better than it was a few years ago, but there are definitely so many tricks and tips that make a huge difference.
Love the video, and your insights about sculptors not being end-user focused enough sometimes.
Would love more 3D printing content - showing you selecting models, testing prints and then painting them
Loot Studios have some absolutely fantastic sculptors and artists working for them and their models are fantastic!
One thing I feel like Ninjon completely missed in his assessment of gw's grasp over the industry, most of us simply love warhammer. These random sculptors online may make cool sculpts, but they don't mean anything to me. They may as well be random artwork from a website like Deviantart. Pretty to look at, but I personally don't find it interesting. I'm interested in the warhammer universe, it's been my favorite fantasy/science fiction universe since I was a kid, and at 33 years of age that still holds true. I support gw despite their insane greed because I love warhammer and I want warhammer to continue being around. Random, pretty sculpts online just don't have that level of interest and emotional investment for me.
You're timing on this is perfect. I've been trying to get my Halot Mage online and it's way tougher than my elegoo printers
wow...i was just curios if you were live streaming after i bumped into you. just as you were signing off, and made it into a video. Glad i could help with my 2 sandbags. im still south and fighting the frontline -barkervancity
Highlands Miniatures does *excellent* miniatures that are wonderful to paint. He is inspired by the old-school warhammer aesthetic, but does his own thing.
As somebody who's been subscribed to Highlands patreon for the past year or so I have to agree in everything but the "does his own thing" part. Most models are just recreations of the original Old World kits with little to no changes! 😂
@@kettusnuhveli341 didn’t know these and went to take a look. I have to agree with you, they’re very close to old school warhammer. There’s some differences here and there, but I can only agree.
I have the Phrozen Mighty 8k and it works well. A lot less failures than my Prusa FDM. I would suggest trying other resins. My kids break the more fragile Aqua Gray so I've switched to the Anycubic Tough Resin.
Great vid man! Always an inspiration to slay more gray!
10:22 Jon I’ve referenced this to so many people in the last week and will continue to do so. Been saying it so long and you put it so succinctly.
Loot Studios has some pretty incredible models. Idk if I'd say GW even comes close to alot of the available proxies now. Painting highly detailed models is just as much fun to me as painting a simple model if not more so, I tend to want to add l.e.d.s and water effects to everything lol.
I cant believe how irresponsible content creators on youtube are! Cashing in on 3D printer deals while recklessly handling uncured prints, sanding resin without showing appropriate PPE, not talking about the ventialation requirement of 3D printing etc. We are going to have a whole generation of influencers and hobbyists slowly poisoning themselves thanks this cowboy attitude to home 3d printing promoted by inlfuencers who havent been educated on the risks and appropriate risk mitigation!
Nice video. While I don't own the Phrozen printer, I have used their resin, and it is really good stuff. I also use the same paint scraper, but with plastic razor blades. These work almost as well as metal, but the chance to scratch up your build plate is reduced.
If you want an easier time with your prints, make sure you're keeping the resin at around 25-30C. You can DIY small heaters to go in the enclosure, or set up an enclosure for your printer to run in with a heater. I find it gives me much better and more consistent results with my prints.
3d printing is a chore. Sometimes i would just rather spend 50 bucks on a kit rather than lug the cancer goo out
Hi you won.
Nah, the day GW (or any company) loses the war is when you can run one of these in the dinkiest studio apartment or mom's basement without fumigating yourself and contaminating your living space with harmful particulate and the toxic chemicals used to not only produce the models, but also cleaning them, as well as ending up with a bucket of hazardous waste you need to properly dispose of.
Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely love to have a printer. I don't want to pay 70 bucks for two shipping containers and a couple of barrels, and I absolutely can't be bothered to dig around garbage for DIY crap. I would run a printer 24/7 if I could. But after recently getting the opportunity to operate one, not just fiddling with a slicer and pressing print mind, but setting up and cleaning up afterwards, the tech is just not there yet and maybe this branch of it never will.
I think my comment may have been removed, but it needs to be repeated.
One of the most Iconic GW sculptors already does have his own store selling 3d sculpts for printing...
Bob Naismith. THE Bob Naismith. The sculptor of the original space marines and terminators.
He's independent and sells a whole range of sci-fi sculpts.
Everyone's experiences can vary. I use Siraya Tech resin and their factory-recommended printer-specific settings were basically a 99% solution for me right out of the box. Settings are resin/printer specific so always worth a few test prints to fine-tune, but that is a one-and-done step if you don't switch resins/brands. Add a wham-bam flex plate and I've only had to zero my build plate the one time. I love your tip on mixing, I absolutely recommend mixing the resin in the vat like you describe to also fish around for bits stuck to the FEP- I use a 100% silicone cooking spatula to do that. Also- it is worth learning how to do your own supports as then you can make your own files or use any sculptor's files and orient prints to strategically hide those support nubs and get the best results out of the printer. Print orientation is a big part of an acceptable final result. Running all slicer files through UV Tools has saved me from any failed print issues. It might take more time to prep, but that is major time saved avoiding failed prints due to supports or suction cups, resin traps, etc...
As much as I love Ninjon, I cant take seriously the opinions expressed praising the Phrozen mini 8K thats SPONSORED by Phrozen. Even if its good, Its still Bias, as much as youtubers assure us they were allowed to say what they wanted. Also, talk about Clickbait in this one...
Hi you won.
Sorry Jon, you're an amazing painter but the clickbait titles I think have finally got too much for me
He has bills to pay and clickbait works
And he’s kinda not wrong
@@OkieDokieCreationshe’s not.
I forgive the clickbait every time Darryl shows up.
This is his full time job and youtube consistently rewards titles like this. If you went into this video genuinely believing Jon discovered something this past week that's going to put GW in trouble you're a moron
Thanks for the 3d printer settings. My one question is, did you change the settings for the supports? The sizing, contact shape, depth? I have played around with some of them and messed up my entire set up and can't find a reset to default anywhere.
This is the first time I've noticed your grimdark syringe tattoo. I friggin love it!
I've been 3d printing for years. FDM and resin. I just got into painting a little over a year ago. Printing has definitely allowed me to practice painting a lot more. There's no pressure if I "mess up" because I can just print another one. I can practice different techniques. If I just want to work on faces and eyes, I can print a bunch of heads to practice on.
About 4 to 5 years ago I was designing a range of valves for a very large, American OEM manufacturer. We were using a 3D printer for proof of design for our prototypes. We were able to design the body, the valve stem, the valve ball and seats, create them and the assembly them. I can only imagine how much they have progressed in the interim in regards to design fidelity and ease of use.
Also, word on the street is curing prints while submerged is ideal as the oxygen reacts with the resin, can make the surface rougher or gooeyer
I gave up 3d printing due to the massive amount of failures I would get after my first initial print and the amount of space it took up. I had to buy a 1600 dollar grow tent with a 500 dollar ventilation system in order to vent out the fumes with proper filtration. the large grow tent would allow enough space to fully vent the fumes while working with the uncured resin. Taking it all down was the best day of my life. I would pay a person to print my files moving forward as the savings was not really there for me.
For those tiny, hard-to-reach supports like at 5:43, I use a couple dental picks. They're strong, fine-tipped, and come in various angles and shapes to pry away even the most troublesome supports.
When you're scraping minis off the plate, i really recommend placing the plate on the table with a paper towel underneath. It's much easier to apply some force with the plate on a flat surface.
Honestly, for the curing station, I glued a layer of aluminum foil on the inside of a bankers box with spray adhesive, cut a rectangular hole in the lid and put a $5 uv light on the hole. I put my models on a cheap light driven spinner and bobs your uncle. It's held up for over 3 years and still going string. Much cheaper than other options
Thank you for this! Just got this printer and used your settings. It came out perfect 🎉 😎👍
No mold lines sure seems worth it. The problem for me is having a safe ventillated work area where I can use this.
A good suggestion for anyone just getting a resin printer or even a fdm printer, get a magnetic flex print bed sheet, it can make removing a print super simple. I have even had fdm prints separate after the print bed cooled to room temp after it was done.
I have a flexplate on my resin, and recently the magnet pealed from the corner. gonna try to fix it with some tape when it arrives, however... the glass scraper that he suggested over the spatula may be even better, I should try my spare buildplate without the magnet, which is a pain, but my prints allways stick, but dont over stick.
As always, awesome content. And glad to see Durgin Paint Forge in your video, he just launch a kickstarter with new stuff... including CATS!!!
Given that I have been doing resin prints for 5+ years, I have thoughts
1. Ditch the razor scraper and add a magnetic flexible build plate. Give it a twist and the model pops right off.
2. A wash station is indeed a game changer, especially combined with the above - you can wash them and then pop them off.
3. Try to find a cure station which cures them in water. Most resins cure better in a low oxygen environment, so I cure mine in water. Surface finish is better too.
4. I actually have 2 wash bins. One is just IPA, and I use to wash of excess resin. The other is IPA (call it 25%), water, and a squirt of dish soap (to cut surface tension), which is my standard "get the mold release off" mix. So I wash in IPA, pop the models off, remove supports, wash in the model wash (to get off any sprue pieces), cure, wash again, glue/fill/sand, wash again, prime, paint.
fantastic video! Could you do a more in depth video on how you decide on which colours to use for shadows and how to go about doing it?
The overloaded Dwarf with the Puppy, is Adorable.
Another great thing about printing models aside from taking away the apprehension about messing up one you paid a lot of money for is that you can use misprints for experimentation of techniques. I'll often keep misprints that were largely in tact but wound up missing a finger or have half of an accessory because they needed better supports and then use those for quick experimentation. As I type this, I have a werewolf gal that had a half-printed tail that I painted bronze then used blue-green oil paint to experiment with a verdigris effect. That way I can try it out before using it on a full mini.
And I totally agree that there are a lot of modelers out there who don't think about how their model translates to painting. Not only super busy, but some pieces end up being exceedingly delicate when actually printed out.
Edit: I had said I wouldn't mention artists unless allowed but that was before I watched the whole video and saw the part inviting us to do that. Some of the ones on MMF that I find do sculpt models that are well suited for painting are:
- Bite the Bullet
- Velrock Arts
- Dragon Trappers Lodge
- Twin Goddess Miniatures
- Battle Yak Miniatures
- Artisan Guild
- Titan Forge Miniatures
- One Page Rules (they also have freebies on Cults3D!)
- Printed Obsession
- Rocket Pig Games
- Papsikels Miniatures
Was thinking on doing reviews on sculptors from Patreon and MMF, in which I would address all these points, like design uniqueness, details, sculpt quality, printability, ease of painting.
For example, Archvillain Games and Mini Monster Mayhem have great designs, but not exactly printing and painting friendly. Especially the huge models, which most times are way over the top.
That model and the music is so freakin good, love the 80ies synth theme in your videos❤
I am dead in love with Durgin Paint Forge models. Found out about them through an Obscurities in Miniatures video on his Elves and proceeded to go all-in for the top pledge on KS. I have a bunch of 3D minis but good resin cast minis are something that just grab me by the heart.
@@dpedreno i can understand why, i have been thinking of dabbling with those types of minis. They seem to be good for cabinetlevel of painting... ones i reach that level that is 😅😊
@@NunnanAgda I am no Ninjon, I’ll tell you that. Matteo (aka Durgin Paint Forge) is also a masterful painter, even if he’ll tell you he’s not).
What do you like to paint?
I recall seeing later lines on the lion when they first showed him, which tells us FW are printing prototypes
the final final hurdle is also the price of a resin printer + wash station + Curing station. It costs like 500-750 bucks for those (asuming you get a 4K or 8K printer)
I actually have that model from their kickstarter and now I kinda feel like I wouldn't do it justice painting it after you have. ahhh well, Nice job man.
Look at it as inspiration and aspiration, not competition!
Great stufff as always and thanks for providing a pointer to a good option to a printer
I come back every time for Darryl, but I stay for the electronic disco music...
Thank! Very informative. How toxic is it to work with type of resin? I noticed you print in a closed room? I s it safe at my home or in a room with poor ventilation?
Rockin the Pa-chow shirt! Nice nod to Uncle Atom. It’s cool how you creators have developed a friendship and support each other.
Question: At around 4:14, your handling the fresh prints with your bare hands albeit after they have been washed, but is that not dangerous to do without gloves? I got a photon wash n' cure station as well but it also never cleaned them nearly enough like that alone did, so I always wear disposable gloves.
Does anyone know if Jon was also sanding down all Layer lines or just the support nubs? I have some to paint but can’t tell if my paint will cover them
I was originally frustrated with resin 3D printing until I discovered one of the magic tricks: temperature. I was getting all kinds of weird failures with no real apparent logical reason why... until I discovered that my printing area was too cold. Once I figured that out and started making sure my print room was warm enough, failure became nearly a thing of the past. They also sell VAT heaters that wrap around the VAT to make sure the resin stays uniformly warm enough.
And I 100% agree with you about many of the models being over-designed. I get how that can happen, having done some 3D modeling -- you're looking at the mesh very large on your screen, so it seems like there's not enough detail. You're building it as though it were going to be a full size figure, instead of something in the 28-30mm range. It's always like a treasure find when I come upon some STLs that were obviously designed by or had the input of painters.
Hi you won^
Yep local climate is by far the most important factor
what is the toxic particulate level in the house during and after running the various 3d printers you've used?
Personal experience here, but im fairly new to printing and wanted to share that I have recently bought two of the Anycubic printers: the photon mono 4k, and the photon mono x 6k. Using siraya tech fast, i have not had any failures and everything has come out crisp and detailed from the box. They are one of the few more known brands that still have open compatibility with slicer software, which was a big influence in my decision to go with them.
What layer height do you typically use then @Ninjon and specifically for this piece? I have found that the "default" height of 0.05mm on my Mars 3 Pro results in layer lines that are really noticeable when using washes or speed paints. I've done some prints at 0.03mm but have yet to try painting them to see how they do, though I can still see the individual layers if I look closely enough. If I want completely smooth prints do I just need to accept the 10+ hour print times with the lowest 0.01mm setting? Or do better printers produce better results somehow?
You can check my settings in the video description, I’m at .03 layer height
@ninjon - Hello - do you use Edge Blur and Anti-Aliasing in the chitubox advanced settings? Great video too!
'Over-detail' is also a problem in the model train world, but for a different reason: every time you pick a wagon or loco up you can snap something off.
If you learn to add your own supports, you can create supports that wont leave pitting all over your models after you remove them. I typically do my tips at 0.25-0.30mm and tip length 2.0mm and I have to hold my prints at an angle to a light to get a reflection to be able to see where the supports were because of how small they are.
This is a whole ‘nother hobby by itself. The results are great though.
Bob Nasmith is making 3d sculpts for printing.
For you who don't know his name he designed some of the first space marine models and a bunch of other RT era minis.
Gotta say, I love your channel and I’m glad your sonic mini 8k worked straight out of the box but mine doesn’t lol. Been on the email with the phrozen “help center” and still no dice. I’d love to hear what you did or what I need to do in order to get to the painting of printed minis. I wanted a toaster too…I got something else lol
"Well my dwarf's weapon is a two-handed pug, which does 1 damage, and has a break chance of 77% per hit. I haven't found a pugsmith yet."
I think 3d printings current niche as home/hobby thing is basically the perfect place for it, injection molding is just way more efficient for wide scale production (though 3d printing molds, is probably something to keep an eye on)