🌎 In-depth Maintenance guide on my website: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/ The sharpening/ whetstones used in the video can be bought here: 🛒 Diamond plate (AliExpress): bit.ly/2y3D6Ts (needs pre- sharpening in order to reach the specified grit they are pretty coarse out of the box) 🛒 Ceramic Shapton Glass: amzn.to/3fTL2aQ Soaking/water/whetstone: AliExpress store closed (while the stones I ordered had the correct grit rating, the stone came damaged on the sides/ slightly chipped during shipping) Note: I got the Shapton glass for free, but I do recommend the Ha No Kuromaku or also called Shapton Pro Ceramic over the Shapton Glass and Naniwa/Chosera Pro. 🛒 Ha No Kuromaku (Shapton Pro Ceramic): amzn.to/2z2i8oz (If I wasn't gifted the Shapton Glass I would have bought this one personally over the Shapton glass). 🛒 Strop Base from Jende Industries: jendeindustries.com/kangaroo-strop.html (Gifted) FULL DISCLOSURE If you purchase from these links I get a small commission that goes towards supporting the channel. Thank you for your support :) ★ F O L L O W ChefPanko 😊 👍🏼 S U B S C R I B E: bit.ly/chefpanko 📸 I N S TA G R A M: instagram.com/chefpanko 🌎 W E B S I T E: www.chefpanko.com/ 📬 B U S I N E S S: www.chefpanko.com/contact/ 🍱 G O O K I N G: www.chefpanko.com/cooking-guide/
@@sabotage3dthe plate is giving you a #grit rating of 1000 but the first few uses it felt a lot coarser than 1000. And the finish was also coarser. So after multiple sharpening sessions, it finally gave me a finish that you would get on a #1000 gritstone. So for example it felt more like a #600/800 grit finish and after multiple sharpening sessions it felt more like #1000 And yes you can just buy and sharpen your kitchen knife on it.
@@chefpanko Thank you for the detailed explanation. Do you recommend only these plates as there are some cheaper ones that look very similar and are higher in grit?
This was one of the best and most informative "how to choose" sharpening stone videos I have seen. thank you for making the video. I have been a little hesitant this past week to start sharpening but now I feel closer than ever to feeling ready to start.
Glad it was helpful! Sharpening is progress that you should enjoy by improving each time you sharpen. I try to make a sharpening guide and explain how and why we do certain things. So that everyone can develop their own sharpening style. There is no good or bad way of doing it once you understand the ''Why'' part. You can develop your own ''how'' and sharpening techniques.
@Nsm9kx 96 a few sharpens and my stones need some flattening. Depends on the quality of your stone though. I've seen bad stones that are bad halfway through sharpening. You get what you pay for
Chef Panko, I like that you start with your disclosure and in your description notes. As for the content, it is detailed and addressed the variety of issues and different characteristics among the sharpening stones. I like that you stress that skill is much more important as to the brand or type of stones and that it takes time and practice to gain experience and improve sharpening skills. Thank you and I hope your business get back to re opening soon.
Thank you for the detailed comment and constructive feedback. Hope that everything can be back to normal once everything is over, at least with the extra time I have now I can finally fulfill the many requests that have been piling up :) Stay safe and healthy!
Im very happy to see you care more for the technique than the brand/product itslef and that you included the mantainance of the stones many people does not realize o even think that the stones need to be flat, while i dont do it very often i point this as often as possible. Also very good guideline on the use of every grit range, i know people that wanted to repair a blade with a 1000 grit stone (although possible if you really really really want to) for future videos you may want to include what grit is best for each use, like 600/800 to cutting or trimming beef, 1000 for general purpose and 4000+ to fillet fish somethig among those lines based on your experience. Your strop looks really cool, i went the DIY route for my strop, works really well for a $5 (in materials) strop. What compound do you use? i know that not all brands use the same grit/color for their compound but in general black compound is the coarsest. Nice video as always.
I really wanted to point that out that the technique is more important than the brand especially when I first started to learn how to sharpen, I doubted myself so much. Do I really need an expensive brand? etc, in the end, it was that the stones were not flat and I have not developed a muscle memory or feel for sharpening. The stones do not have to be flat (except for single bevel knives) all the time but if you are in the learning phase it is very important. Since you don't have the feel for the angle and the muscle memory. (Now I know that the stone is not flat but my muscle memory takes over and automatically adjust during the dished out curves). But this is extremely hard for people in the learning phase (and self-doubt will start to kick in and you think about buying an expensive brand). Of course, how hard the stones are, how fast it cuts and the feedback makes the difference in how fast a beginner sharpener can learn to sharpen. The results are minimal for someone that know-how and why. That is a very good idea, and the Rockwell matters too. Knives with a Rockwell of 58 or lower I won't go higher than #4000 (I even stop at #3000). There is no reason to go beyond that grit, I don't know if that applies for a home cook but for us in the restaurant the edge can't behold anyways after trimming and portioning beef prep. It feels more like you wasted extra time getting the sharper edge just so that you can do over after your prep work. It is ultra-fine 10,000 but I switched to medium 5.000 but thinking about testing fine 7.000. I like the 5.000 a lot but curious about 7.000 since I did not try that after having the 5.000-grain size.
Soaking stones aren't that complicated! Keep them wet! For me the best stone for getting a great edge is the 1000/6000 combo stone. This one stone will give you very sharp edges. For repair of chips out dented edges I have a 240/800, to take off metal fast. And for polishing I have a 5000/10000 stone. Finally a strop to get that razor edge. I also have a leveling stone. This is all you'll ever need for most knives and scissors. Any combination of these will work, but the main thing is have a mixed variety to cover all issues you'll run into. If your knives are maintained after each use ( a honing steel or ceramic rod) you'll need to sharpen less often. If you want a basic all around stone and your knives are in good condition the 1000/6000 and a strop are all you'll need. Don't buy the very costly stones,. I haven't sent more than$26 cdn on any of my stones! They all are good quality!
Sir can you suggest what is best sharpening stone I'm a trainee butcher and we need very sharp knife to skin the cow what is the best grit to sharpen my knife.
Do you have any recommendations for the best natural sharpstone that's relatively cheap for a Rockwell of 56? I'm looking to get a low grade and medium and the highest for a high carbon stainless steel, Victorinox fibrox.
This video really helped me thank you. I bought a shun kitchen knife and they sold it with a whetstone block of 400 but i had no clue how to use it. It didnt seem to sharpen my other kitchen knives so i was trying to find out what i was doing wrong.
hahaha, I admit ''for whatever reason'' = More to satisfy ourselves. Let's be honest is a very nice feeling, practical for home use is debatable but it ''feels good!'' 😁
I only use 1000 and 2000. Thats enough to make my knife sharp enough. Sometimes i start with 800 and finish it with 6000 as final touch but thats seldom i do so.
bought a flattening stone. it mostly seemed to scratch the surface of my king stone, maybe it needs to soak more since it seems like it can absorb an awful lot of water compared to the king stone. but a low grit diamond stone sounds quite useful. think i need some lower grit stones for old chipped knives and a few thicker or outdoor knives
You can apply less force but definitely soak the flattening stone more. You can also do the flattening after sharpening without removing the slurry build-up. Another optional thing is to add a dressing stone to smoothen out the scratches. Chipped knives it is indeed better to go for a lower grit (for lower grit sizes I recommend the cheapest stones that you can find since it is for repair work no need to buy branded whestones).
Most ppls method: 1. Soak flattening stone and whetstone as needed. 2. Put pencil marks on whetstone and start flattening! 3. Use nagura to smooth whetstone stone back to normal. For me, I keep a purposefully dulled knife to sharpen up after a flattening on med. grit whetstone to make sure it's back in shape (pun intended) ;D
Which grit should I use for my VG10 knife? Sadly it wasn't properly sharpened before it was sent to me. It's a relativley cheap one from Kanetsune (around 70 euros).
Depends on the state of the knife. For a VG10 you can end at #3000 grit. I would not really go over #5000 (keep in mind that the grit rating differs from manufacturer to manufacturer or brand and the material they use on the whetstones). For more information you can visit my website: will add a separate link in another comment just in case youtube decides to delete it. Since YT does not like links in the comment sections.
Putting 1/3rd of a corundum stone into a peanut butter lid, getting a makeshift axe puck, reduces the need to flatten it. This idea came from another UA-camr; I agree with putting wet cloth in between your lid and your piece of whetstone.
hahaha if your new knife is dull from normal usage maintaining it with a combi stone of #1000/#3000 is enough no need to buy all the different stones. For a quick touch up a ceramic honing rod can be added for days when you don't have the time to maintain the edge on a stone. But replacing a cheap knife with another cheap knife is an option too lol
Thanks for the vid Chef, it's great you put in the Aliexpress links, especially for beginners who don't want or need expensive higher quality brands. You should think about also putting in a link for an Amazon US/UK/etc alternative and use affiliate links which will help you monetize your vids a little. Also: by 'presharpening' on the diamond stone, do you mean it takes a little while to settle? Would rubbing it against a soaking stone help prep it?
Will definitely look at the European affiliate solution thanks for the tip :) As pre-sharpening for the Diamond stones, it depends on the brand the one on AliExpress definitely needed around 10/15 knives to be pre-sharpened on it before I got the desired grit rating that was stated. They started very coarse so the #400 was around #180 and the #1000 felt more like #600-#800 than #1000. But other brands like Atoma, DMT needed less pre sharpening and their (Atoma) other colored versions were almost at the grit level that you can expect from a ceramic stone. So I definitely see some new tech/binding method being used to combat diamond pre sharpening (however the newer binding/tech is 350 approx euro for #400 and a separate #1000). It is interesting that they managed to have a diamond plate with #6000 grit with their newer binding method. It will indeed help a bit with using it to flatten your stone but best way was to use knives on it. (the one above from AliExpress needed around 10/15 pre sharpening).
Not sure what a gold diamond stone entails. What kind of coating is it? I l know that certain manufacturers add different diamond coating which increases the cutting rate or increases the wear resistance meaning you can use the diamond plates for longer before it wear out (or turn into a higher grit rating than advertised). Things like a Galvanic Bond Metal Bonding etc (Electroplating and layer order) will increase cutting performance for example but would wear out faster especially on lower Rockwell knives. Best thing is to ask the manufacturer what kind of bonding they have added. When it comes to unknown brand and manufacturers it all depends on trial and error at that stage. (which can become more costly if you did not find one that had adequate performance than buying directly from a reputable brand that has been tried and proven to be great by many). Keep in mind that that Diamond stones will wear out or rather said wear in. Meaning a coarse grit plate can become more medium of even a fine grit over time.
What a coincidence, Worksharp just contacted me yesterday since Vincent (UnknownVT) from the bladeforums.com hooked me up with them. They look like a well rounded and well thought out design. Each product has been designed while keeping all the functionalities. I can't say much since I personally never tested the Ken Onion knife sharpener. But I do think that the Ken Onion edition is one of the most versatile sharpeners that they offer. I asked for the E5 sharpener since I thought that that would fit the cooks more since I cover kitchen knives but the E5 is based on the exact principles that the Ken Onion edition use but the Ken Onion edition is more versatile but less streamlined for home/kitchen use. Vincent ''UnknownVT'' did a review about the Ken Onion you can read it there: bladeforums.com/threads/work-sharp-knife-tool-sharpener-ken-onion-edition.1111087/ I personally can't say much about it since I have not tried it so if Worksharp approves with my request for the E5 review sample then I can give you mine in-depth review about it. My only concern was de-tempering/ overheating the higher Rockwell Japanese knives. Since they don't need a lubricant like water so you use is completely dry. But I got an answer back from Dan Doval (Worksharp principal designer) they use low surface pressure and with adjusting the speed there would not be any problems with de-tempering and the blade will not get hot. Therefore suitable for all knives even high carbon Japanese knives.
@@chefpanko Looking forward to your review of the E5. Would love an edge comparison vs whetstone sharpening. I have the Ken Onion and like it for its speed. I do have a whetstone as well, and while I find it very relaxing, it does take a bit longer to sharpen. PS. Are you familiar with Kasumi knives?
Hi Chef! Great video! This is exactly what I needed. I'm just getting into sharpening. Was thinking of investing in a 1000 grit stone, then green compound on some side of leather strop and one side just pure leather strop. Would this be good to start learning how to sharpen?
#1000 grit is a good start to sharpen dull knives, and you get a good edge with stropping after. One thing to note is #1000 takes away more material from the knife. If the knife was slightly dull then and you have the time, I recommend a whetstone honing session on a #3000 gritstone. And you should be able to get a slightly dull edge back in 2/5 min. Since it depends on the knife condition, if you have broken tips., lower grit is recommended, or you will spend a lot of time on a #1000 grit and waste a lot of whetstone material. For extra information, visit my website: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/ I will try to make a sharpening tutorial explaining how I do certain things and why.
@@chefpanko Thanks! Is it worth going from #1000 grit to green stropping compound? And just using stropping to hone rather than a #3000 whetstone? I'm trying to figure out if I should buy a #3000 whetstone or if a leather strop (I have one already) with green compound (will need to buy) is enough?
@@bboycrazybrown #1000 grit and green compound should give you a good enough edge and shaving results. The hair shaving result does not say much but looks cool and is quite satisfying at first. Still, over time, you will understand that these sharpness tests are useless and more for entertainment purposes (as to my chart at the ''When'' on my website it is purely there as an indication to explain it but the ''When'' part and what grit should be done by feel and the knives purpose which is very hard to explain and the reason why I came up with an easy to understand example). But this entirely depends on what you cook and the quility of the knife. Cheap (low Rockwell of 56 or less) knives should do fine with just #1000 grit (and it is even more beneficial to go for a lower grit since the knife-edge can't hold the higher grit sharpness anyways), but specialized knives, for example, are specialized for a reason. If you look at the chart: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/ and scroll through ''What grit size do you use?'' I specified the ''Grit Size'' ''When'' and ''Why''. You will see that #1000/#2000 is good enough for home use. (the examples are a generalization and just an indication). With stropping, you should be fine. I personally don't strop at all but finish with a #3000 stone for my knives (except specialized knives or knives that I use at work). Work knives that need to cut raw fish and serving raw fish I finish with a #6000+ stone The difference is, the knife is specialized for fish, and we use different slicing techniques, so no continuous banging on the cutting board but slicing it with controlled speed and force without banging on the cutting board. (this is another reason we go beyond #3000 on certain knives. As you can see (video example below), we are barely touching the cutting board, so we can actually hold a high grit edge while preserving the raw fish freshness). In the video, I use mangoes since I don't film in a work environment (but I did take a picture of the Tuna that we need to portion size to get Sashimi or Nigiri slices out of it). Video example: ua-cam.com/video/gYhRFWhl42g/v-deo.html The slicing technique called ''Sogizukiri'' Slicing = it is basically to maximize the fish's surface area. (in my case, the mango, if cut straight down the surface area is too small and can not be shaped in a nigiri, the rice would be visible and not gently covered like a blanket)
While honing compounds rarely list their grit, my understanding is that green compounds are generally about 6000 grit. Stropping with green compound on leather after a 1000 grit stone will clean up the edge and remove microburrs, but it won't do a great job of refining the scratch pattern left by a 1000 grit stone. I am a home cook and typically maintain my edge with a strop with green compound for months, or until I feel like putting a fresh edge on with a Naniwa Professional 800 (which many say is more like a 1000), and also their 3000. There are plenty of combo stones that jump from 1000/6000, but if you're actually trying to get a 6000 finish, in my opinion, you'll spend less time going from 1000 to 3000 to 5000 or 6000 than trying to go from 1000 to 6000.
I have not tested a lot of natural stones, but natural stones are inconsistent compared to man-made ones. The best choice comes down to the person using it and finding a stone they like since they are not equal. Even the Arkansas in the video there are specific spots I prefer more. So it is not consistent for the entire surface but you will find a way to use certain areas in your favor.
@@chefpanko I bought kuromakus but my knife teacher recommended natural because of the slurry and lower need for water, so I'm going to find out if I made a mistake
@@morehn Kuromakus? From Shapton? they are good, there is no need for natural stones. man-made ones are more consistent, the Japanese-made ones are so far as I know better quality. But competition from others might have risen up. Those stones also can form a slurry. Sharpening is more about your individual knowledge and the application of that knowledge. You are basically never done learning by hand sharpening since you can improve your own skills and learn various techniques. Finding out your mistakes will be easy you learn from mistakes and add more knowledge in your journey.
@@chefpanko in terms of the sharpening material, my main goal is to have the smoothest edge on a microscopic level. I was wondering if ceramic or natural would do a better job at that.
My wording might have been incorrect as English is not my main language. With Pre-Sharpening I mean that you need to sharpen it a few times before it actually feels like the mentioned grit rating. So the first session on it will feel very coarse, this depends on the manufacturer too. I have no idea why Honey Combs only go up to 1200, however, the brand DMT, while I don't think they mention the ratings, they do specify with a rating like: Extra Coarse, Coarse, Fine, etc. The Japanese brand Atoma goes to 1200 if I'm correct but they have others with a different coating to go beyond that. DMT can go beyond that. Their ''Extra Fine'' Diamond Bench is probably around 1000/3000 grit and their ''Extra-Extra Fine'' Diamond Bench is around 3000/5000. But the material is important some knives will react or feel differently on certain types of whetstones.
The majority of the results come from the person sharpening the knife, but it is also highly dependable on what types of food you use it for. And the type of knife and steel-type, for home use, there is no need to go higher than 1000/2000 grit. The when to use what and why it is important to understand. So he is right; there is no need to go higher. But the ''why'' is important. While on my website, I have the ''when'' indication, but this is highly globalized to give an understandable indication: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/ But as you can see at the ''why'' you see that I indicate #1000 to #2000 grit for home use (explanation below). #2000 to #3000 I have indicated meat and fish that you cook, but mainly focused on restaurant use (we prep first before we cook, and products need to stay as fresh as possible after prep). But also the grit rating per knife Rockwell has an impact. And for raw fish, I go above #5000 but also with a Rockwell above 62+ (there is no use to go above #5000 with a knife of a lower Rockwell) Here is why we don't cook everything directly after it has been cut at a restaurant. Structural integrity is the best. When food is uncut, the ripening process has been slowed down by putting them in the fridge. (or to slow down bacteria build-up). For raw fish (we need to filet it first since blood and organs intact will affect the fish quility over time. It is better to filet it as soon as possible to prevent bacteria build-up). Unfortunately, at the restaurant, we have limited space, and each product we get needs to be cut directly to free up storage space. We do not sell everything directly, and we do not cut the food when it gets ordered. We do prep work to reduce the cooking time. To get the food as fresh as possible, you need a sharper knife that does not bruise the produce to stay longer fresh. Home use we cut and cook pretty much right after or even cut during cooking. Yes, I agree #1000 to #2000 is good enough, and yes, you can get hair shaving results if your own sharpening techniques are good. But the toothy edge it creates is different than finishing on a #5000 grit. There comes sushi raw fish. Once fish has been filleted, we store uncut (no nigiri slices). Here is an example of what I do at work: ua-cam.com/video/gYhRFWhl42g/v-deo.html As you can see, there a rectangular size, a size that is long enough for the fridge, but we start cutting once the batch is almost sold out. This is because once it has been cut, the fish will produce extra moisture, and bacteria will build up faster, another reason we use single beveled Yanagiba to minimize those effects. We directly file a fish because the organs and the blood on the fish will affect the fish's taste, especially eaten raw. So, in short, yes, above 1k grit does not make it sharper, but the toothy edge it creates highly affects the food integrity dependent on the situation. This is one reason you don't see me do the paper cutting test, arm shaving test, etc. in knife reviews or even talk about out of the box sharpness. It creates misinformation for entertainment purposes. Also important to know is the Grit rating. We mainly use Grit size with the Japanese JIS rating vs. ANSI/CAMI, FEPA rating. When you know this, you understand that the ratings are just widely misunderstood and when or why it is needed for a particular application. We also do something that we call blanching. It stops the ripening process. It adds color, and the food maintains the color after it has been cut, and it also reduces cooking time.
@@chefpanko Thank you for the effort to reply in so much detail! It is interesting to see the comlexity and the factors which play a role in your knife sharpening preferences, but pls dont forget that the video was about knife sharpening in general and thats what i was referring to! Also, thank you for the great content, mainly for testing chinese knives and recommending chinese stones. Here in EU it just does not worth to get a japanese knife because of the shipping costs, however aliexpress has free shipping, which makes chinese knives a great option!
No worries just wanted to make some things clear, as I mostly agree with that statement that the majority don't need to go higher than #2000 grit. For home use, #1000/#2000 is good enough, but the effect of the combination of higher grit and a knife that can actually benefit from it is important. I personally like to use #3000 as my honing stone. (but it is hard to explain some things in a video as home use and restaurant use is different, so I try to back it up with extra information in the comments or my website). Some stores in the Netherlands (Europe) do shipping within the EU, so no import tax is applied. You do need to pay for shipping ranging from 6 to 25 euros. However, the right to send it back is still there within 14 days; however, the shipping cost back to them is on your behalf too. To be completely honest, I mostly visit the local stores that have Japanese imported knives but sometimes, due to the extreme price hike (EU laws tax, etc.), I directly import them from Japan since even with shipping and import tax, the knives are still 20/30 euros cheaper than buying it here (in some cases even 50 euro cheaper). The Chinese knife was a very long journey, as I have gotten way too many bad knives (especially at the beginning without knowing how to spot better brands). I find it a waste of time to even make a video about them, and most bad knives came in the early stages. If it wasn't for the request and this channel, I would actually have given up on them. And then slowly started to discover a few hidden gems.
I would love to but the problem is that the store is closed on AliExpress where I got my whetstones from (Therefore I did not link them in the description and comment). Since I don't know if each of the sellers has the same quility, I bought 3 stones from 3 different sellers 2 closed and one does not sell it anymore but switched to kitchen household tools. Since I can't be sure if all sellers sell the same stones with the correct grit rating I have decided not to link any stores to avoid disappointment. I have to say that some stones came chipped on the corners and they might break during shipping if it breaks you take a picture and you get a refund from AliExpress. I'm planning to do the sharpening guide on the whetstones from China. Because of the above explanation I can't do a review on them since I don't know if you get the exact same stones from different sellers.
They can sharpen your techniques is what matters the most. I will only use the stones that are made in China in the sharpening guide to show that the brand does not matter as much.
@@KenxanTV It has more to do with the binding method, synthetic stone, in general, will dish out faster than a ceramic stone. So not necessarily because it is made in China. A ceramic stone will cut faster due to its hardness (and again not because of the brand but rather the material that they use and the binding method). What makes the real difference? The binding method and material which varies per brand, some will cut faster which can be compensated with a lower gritstone. So the difference is in the feedback you get from the stones, which can be harder for beginners since the softer the stone the faster it dishes out. In some cases it can dish out during your sharpening session. And since you did not have to build the muscle memory you can't adapt to the curve automatically and therefore the result in sharpness may not be optimal. (Therefore it is important for beginners to keep the stone flat at all times). So if you put those material choices together you get the following for the #1000 grit. Diamond will be the faster, won't dish out but you need to pre-sharpen a few times to get the desired grit. Ceramic stone is faster since you don't have to soak them and harder than a soaking stone. The feedback you get is smoother since it doesn't dish out so much. Soaking stone is cheaper because it does not have what the ceramic one has, it dishes out faster the stone is also softer, the feedback is less visible so if you make a mistake you won't notice it. But in the end does it matter that much for the end result? Not really it all comes down what you know and how you apply your knowledge/ sharpening techniques on those stones. I have written the important point here on my website: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/ I hope that that helps.
Don't neglect the coarser stones, you will curse everything and spend an hour forming a burr on a 800 grit stone, and good luck maintaining the angle for that long time as a beginner. Buy yourself a 200-300/1000-1500 Japanese stone, form a burr on a coarse side, then get rid of the burr on the finer side and boom, you got yourself a sharp knife in less than 10 minutes. Strop that knife on a leather with green Chromium oxide compound, and you can shave with that knife.
It's completely subjective, even personal. But, KING [brand] 1000/6000 is where to start. No flattening stone or erasure needed. No tub or sink extension/holder needed. The ONLY thing else required is a dull knife. Otherwise, get an electric sharpener and stamped blades.
what about it? over 10000+ you are basically doing it for aestatic reasons. Like a mirror polish etc, but if you want to go beyond the cutting edge (the blade face/sides) you are better off with a powder solution to finish the things of as you may find some high and low spots.
I'm really pleased with this! It works like a charm ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxDcr-y2Pf6xdnrFHrSP7dl9kpKaCozcSQ Takes less time than my old electric sharpener because it can take more off the knife faster, and then it smooths out nicely with the finer grit polisher. I don't know how long it will last before the grit wears away, but I wouldn't mind having to replace it every once in a while.
Bruh this guy outdoor77 something Confused the hell of the these stones But its my fault not to think about types of abrasive compound such quartz and aluminium oxide which google says is a ceramic sharpening stone, and norton sell a ceramic alumina sharpening stone which is the same compound I wad told that ceramic sharpening stones are more durable and don't end up thinner in the centre But then comes sand paper logic Aluminium oxide wears out fasters and cuts fasters Silicone carbide cuts slower and lasts longer Now "Al2O3 wears out" yeah some much for no dishing out, then again that doesn't not make sense the stone has to end up no flat at some pount because it wears away when used Eish man Can I trust a wikipedia article on this, But now wouldn't zirconia be the best thing out there, Now I want to know how tp classify sharpening stones and what is the wear out rate, lastly what do I use to make the stone flat again Can diamond stones work but will this damage the diamond stones?
The variations of abrasive compounds and bindings are something you can do a deep dive on. But keep in mind that each manufacturer will have their own mixture added. As I have spoken to multiple manufacturers and blacksmiths, they sometimes outsource things to sub-contractors for specific parts or materials and then make them in their own factory. This differs per knife brand and series that they offer. You can use a flattening stone to flatten the whetstones. diamond stones will work too to flatten whetstones but keep in mind that the diamond coating will eventually wear off. Therefore it will become less effective and abrasive thas a lot of holes where water can be trapped inside so even if it is a stainless plate it will rust if exposed to water for too long. As for the dishing out rate, the synthetic soaking whetstone wears out the fastest. Ceramic will wear out too but not as fast last the synthetic ones. Natural stones depend on the type of natural stone but it seems to wear out less than a ceramic one. As for a Diamond plated one the diamond coating will eventually wear off but it stays relatively flat since you have to replace it with a new diamond-coated plate. One thing about the Natural stones, the grit rating will vary with every single natural stone. so they are not as accurate in terms of grit rating compared to synthetic/man-made stones. So when a manufacturer tells you that the stone rating is #1000 on a natural stone it sits more between #800/1200 and varies on each part of the stone. This will have its own benefit since each part of the blade will wear out at a different rate, therefore, giving you longer edge retention but not the sharpest cleanest cutting performance throughout the blade edge. (a toothier finish than a synthetic one).
@@chefpanko wait so can I use Arkansas stones also I know stanley and grip make sharpening bench stones but I assume these are for chisels and they seem very rough, My question is can I use these for edge refining chisels and knives I plan to set the bevel with my 1x30 belt grinder with a 120 grit belt then refine to a 400 grit trizak 3m belt now I assume I should start at a 600 or 800 grinlt stone for refining the edge Then finish with a 1000 grit for practical cutting such as not for food But lets say For food can I just go to a 2000 grit finish My reason for this is it would cost me around +500 usd if I were to get a 400,600,800,1000,1500,2000,2500,3000 grit stones ceramic or not ceramic And this is too costly for me I'd like to have just a 1000 grit cermaic stone for edge refinement and stop there, I do like the better polished edges but I don't think its practical since I'm not a chef and I don't do much cutting of food, What I would like is a practical edge not something that requires 4-5 stones I have no use for super perfection Just want something decently sharp and can cut through paper easily I'm not using my knives for cutting paper I mean cutting paper easily as in the paper cutting test,
@@ThatOneOddGuy The sharpening ''basics'' remain the same, there may be different techniques and details for pocket knives, chisels, kitchen knives, etc to get the ''best edge'' for a certain person. But the basics of sharpening remain the same. Sharpening simply means shaving off material to create a new edge, how well that new edge performs depends mostly on the person doing the free-hand sharpening and the intended usage. You can get a smooth paper cutting edge with just an #800 grit stone and a strop on some newspaper. (it can even be hair shaving sharp) The #grit rating is there for your convenience, it makes things easier depending on the state of your knives. A lower grit rating simply removes material faster, but it will leave an aggressive edge (toothier edge). The state of the knives determines what #grit is best suited for that specific situation. If you never get a knife to a certain state since you maintain it well enough then you can just do fine with an 800/1000 grit. Even with an 800 grit, you will be able to shave hair after a quick strop. So you will be fine with just 1000 grit and a free newspaper to strop on, it will be hair shaving sharp and will go through paper with no problems (depending on your sharpening skills). A knife will get dull due to usage, the edge will bend left and right and in order to get the sharpness back, you can hone it on a honing rod which will straighten the edge. However, there is a point where the knife can hold the edge after each honing session on a honing rod. the more often you straighten the edge back the more the knife edge will wear out. This is something I call ''knife fatigue'', it is the same as a paperclip. It will hold its shape perfectly but once you start bending it left and right it won't hold the shape and eventually breaks off leaving you with fatigued steel at the broken end. This is what I call knife fatigue, sharpening requires a few things, including re-bevelling the edge if it is broken or when you want to try a different angle. The second thing is maintaining this edge, it means using the same bevel but shaving the fatigued edges off (because you honed it too much and the edge retention is dropping so normally the knife stays sharp for ''1 month'' but now it gets dull again after ''1 week or a few days'' which is an indication for a sharpening session ie: removing the fatigued steel). This gives you the following guideline: #100-400 grit: When? Broken tips, chips on the blade. Why? Removing chips, on a damaged knife. (it is faster to repair it since it removes material faster saving you time in your case your belt grinder will fix this purpose) #500-#800: When? A dull knife, bend cutting core a knife that has not been maintained for a very long time but there are no chips that have to be repaired. Why? Getting an edge on a complete dull knife. #1000-2000: When? When you feel that the knife is not sharp anymore. Why? Getting a medium to fine edge good enough for home use and meat like Chicken, Duck, Beef, Pork. #2000 - #3000: When? If you feel like the toothier edge of #1000 is not for you. Why? Maintenance: Salads/uncooked veggies that don't get eaten right away. (honing/ touch up/ restaurant) It gives a smoother edge great for salads since it will stay fresh for longer. And for cheap knives, it is not even practical to go for a higher grit since the steel was soft, to begin with, and can't hold a certain angle, edge, or finish. You get better results and longer edge retention with a toothier edge on those knives.
🌎 In-depth Maintenance guide on my website: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/
The sharpening/ whetstones used in the video can be bought here:
🛒 Diamond plate (AliExpress): bit.ly/2y3D6Ts
(needs pre- sharpening in order to reach the specified grit they are pretty coarse out of the box)
🛒 Ceramic Shapton Glass: amzn.to/3fTL2aQ
Soaking/water/whetstone: AliExpress store closed (while the stones I ordered had the correct grit rating, the stone came damaged on the sides/ slightly chipped during shipping)
Note: I got the Shapton glass for free, but I do recommend the Ha No Kuromaku or also called Shapton Pro Ceramic over the Shapton Glass and Naniwa/Chosera Pro.
🛒 Ha No Kuromaku (Shapton Pro Ceramic): amzn.to/2z2i8oz (If I wasn't gifted the Shapton Glass I would have bought this one personally over the Shapton glass).
🛒 Strop Base from Jende Industries: jendeindustries.com/kangaroo-strop.html (Gifted)
FULL DISCLOSURE
If you purchase from these links I get a small commission that goes towards supporting the channel.
Thank you for your support :)
★ F O L L O W ChefPanko 😊
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Maybe the quickest like I ever hit in UA-cam
@@GeoBallas haha thank you :)
Hi, for the Diamond plate what do you mean they need pre-sharpening? Can I just buy them and sharpen a kitchen knife with the 1000 grit side?
@@sabotage3dthe plate is giving you a #grit rating of 1000 but the first few uses it felt a lot coarser than 1000. And the finish was also coarser.
So after multiple sharpening sessions, it finally gave me a finish that you would get on a #1000 gritstone.
So for example it felt more like a #600/800 grit finish and after multiple sharpening sessions it felt more like #1000
And yes you can just buy and sharpen your kitchen knife on it.
@@chefpanko Thank you for the detailed explanation. Do you recommend only these plates as there are some cheaper ones that look very similar and are higher in grit?
No bullshit, every sentence carries information and not one sentence is redundant. Quality content right here.
Simple, quick and immensely informative. Perfect for a beginner like me. Thank you.
Great to hear!
@@chefpanko subbed..thank you!!
This was one of the best and most informative "how to choose" sharpening stone videos I have seen. thank you for making the video. I have been a little hesitant this past week to start sharpening but now I feel closer than ever to feeling ready to start.
Glad it was helpful! Sharpening is progress that you should enjoy by improving each time you sharpen. I try to make a sharpening guide and explain how and why we do certain things. So that everyone can develop their own sharpening style. There is no good or bad way of doing it once you understand the ''Why'' part. You can develop your own ''how'' and sharpening techniques.
Great video. But why would you buy a whetstone to save money, then buy an expensive diamond stone to flatten it with?
Because Diamond plates aren’t actually expensive…
@@Battle_Beard do u know how long they last before having to check if there still flat?
@Nsm9kx 96 a few sharpens and my stones need some flattening. Depends on the quality of your stone though. I've seen bad stones that are bad halfway through sharpening. You get what you pay for
It’s not always about saving money some chefs don’t let other people touch their knifes even for sharpening
The diamond plate is to maintain the flatness of the stone
Thank you chief! I am hardly waiting for your presentation of knife sharpening. Best regards.
If you have any questions or want to know feel free to ask, I plan to cover the most asked questions to in the next sharpening video/guide.
Damn, this guy knows what he’s talking about. Thank you so much!
Chef Panko, I like that you start with your disclosure and in your description notes. As for the content, it is detailed and addressed the variety of issues and different characteristics among the sharpening stones. I like that you stress that skill is much more important as to the brand or type of stones and that it takes time and practice to gain experience and improve sharpening skills. Thank you and I hope your business get back to re opening soon.
Thank you for the detailed comment and constructive feedback.
Hope that everything can be back to normal once everything is over, at least with the extra time I have now I can finally fulfill the many requests that have been piling up :)
Stay safe and healthy!
Im very happy to see you care more for the technique than the brand/product itslef and that you included the mantainance of the stones many people does not realize o even think that the stones need to be flat, while i dont do it very often i point this as often as possible.
Also very good guideline on the use of every grit range, i know people that wanted to repair a blade with a 1000 grit stone (although possible if you really really really want to) for future videos you may want to include what grit is best for each use, like 600/800 to cutting or trimming beef, 1000 for general purpose and 4000+ to fillet fish somethig among those lines based on your experience.
Your strop looks really cool, i went the DIY route for my strop, works really well for a $5 (in materials) strop. What compound do you use? i know that not all brands use the same grit/color for their compound but in general black compound is the coarsest.
Nice video as always.
I really wanted to point that out that the technique is more important than the brand especially when I first started to learn how to sharpen, I doubted myself so much.
Do I really need an expensive brand? etc, in the end, it was that the stones were not flat and I have not developed a muscle memory or feel for sharpening. The stones do not have to be flat (except for single bevel knives) all the time but if you are in the learning phase it is very important. Since you don't have the feel for the angle and the muscle memory. (Now I know that the stone is not flat but my muscle memory takes over and automatically adjust during the dished out curves). But this is extremely hard for people in the learning phase (and self-doubt will start to kick in and you think about buying an expensive brand).
Of course, how hard the stones are, how fast it cuts and the feedback makes the difference in how fast a beginner sharpener can learn to sharpen. The results are minimal for someone that know-how and why.
That is a very good idea, and the Rockwell matters too. Knives with a Rockwell of 58 or lower I won't go higher than #4000 (I even stop at #3000).
There is no reason to go beyond that grit, I don't know if that applies for a home cook but for us in the restaurant the edge can't behold anyways after trimming and portioning beef prep.
It feels more like you wasted extra time getting the sharper edge just so that you can do over after your prep work.
It is ultra-fine 10,000 but I switched to medium 5.000 but thinking about testing fine 7.000.
I like the 5.000 a lot but curious about 7.000 since I did not try that after having the 5.000-grain size.
Soaking stones aren't that complicated! Keep them wet! For me the best stone for getting a great edge is the 1000/6000 combo stone. This one stone will give you very sharp edges. For repair of chips out dented edges I have a 240/800, to take off metal fast. And for polishing I have a 5000/10000 stone. Finally a strop to get that razor edge. I also have a leveling stone. This is all you'll ever need for most knives and scissors. Any combination of these will work, but the main thing is have a mixed variety to cover all issues you'll run into. If your knives are maintained after each use ( a honing steel or ceramic rod) you'll need to sharpen less often. If you want a basic all around stone and your knives are in good condition the 1000/6000 and a strop are all you'll need. Don't buy the very costly stones,. I haven't sent more than$26 cdn on any of my stones! They all are good quality!
Thank you for sharing your added experience and insights :)
Sir can you suggest what is best sharpening stone I'm a trainee butcher and we need very sharp knife to skin the cow what is the best grit to sharpen my knife.
did anything change or are these still good
Great info, quick and just what I needed. Thank you 🙏
Do you have any recommendations for the best natural sharpstone that's relatively cheap for a Rockwell of 56?
I'm looking to get a low grade and medium and the highest for a high carbon stainless steel, Victorinox fibrox.
This video really helped me thank you. I bought a shun kitchen knife and they sold it with a whetstone block of 400 but i had no clue how to use it. It didnt seem to sharpen my other kitchen knives so i was trying to find out what i was doing wrong.
7:10 I feel identified when you say "for whatever reason" :-D
hahaha, I admit ''for whatever reason'' = More to satisfy ourselves.
Let's be honest is a very nice feeling, practical for home use is debatable but it ''feels good!'' 😁
I only use 1000 and 2000. Thats enough to make my knife sharp enough. Sometimes i start with 800 and finish it with 6000 as final touch but thats seldom i do so.
Kind of similar with me. I use an 800 oil stone and then 1200 diamond plate and can shave with my cheap pocket knife
Ceramic sharpening stones for the win!
This is so important. Thank you, chef!
thank you for watching :)
I am a big fan of a Norton india stone and following up with Arkansas stones and a strop.
Thank you ,this is really helpful for me.
Great guide. Thank you for sharing you knowledge.
Why isn't this the most viewed?! Answered so many questions without bogging it down with tertiary information. Thank you!
Thank you for the nice comment :)
bought a flattening stone. it mostly seemed to scratch the surface of my king stone, maybe it needs to soak more since it seems like it can absorb an awful lot of water compared to the king stone. but a low grit diamond stone sounds quite useful.
think i need some lower grit stones for old chipped knives and a few thicker or outdoor knives
You can apply less force but definitely soak the flattening stone more. You can also do the flattening after sharpening without removing the slurry build-up. Another optional thing is to add a dressing stone to smoothen out the scratches.
Chipped knives it is indeed better to go for a lower grit (for lower grit sizes I recommend the cheapest stones that you can find since it is for repair work no need to buy branded whestones).
Most ppls method:
1. Soak flattening stone and whetstone as needed.
2. Put pencil marks on whetstone and start flattening!
3. Use nagura to smooth whetstone stone back to normal.
For me, I keep a purposefully dulled knife to sharpen up after a flattening on med. grit whetstone to make sure it's back in shape (pun intended)
;D
Which grit should I use for my VG10 knife? Sadly it wasn't properly sharpened before it was sent to me. It's a relativley cheap one from Kanetsune (around 70 euros).
Depends on the state of the knife. For a VG10 you can end at #3000 grit. I would not really go over #5000 (keep in mind that the grit rating differs from manufacturer to manufacturer or brand and the material they use on the whetstones).
For more information you can visit my website: will add a separate link in another comment just in case youtube decides to delete it. Since YT does not like links in the comment sections.
Here is the link for more information: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/
@@chefpanko I've already ordered a combi stone with 1000 and 3000 grit, so I guess I made a good decision there. Thanks for the answer!
Thank you Chef Panko.
Putting 1/3rd of a corundum stone into a peanut butter lid, getting a makeshift axe puck, reduces the need to flatten it.
This idea came from another UA-camr; I agree with putting wet cloth in between your lid and your piece of whetstone.
Explained really well 👍🏼
I'm beginning to think it might be easier to just buy a new knife every time lol
hahaha if your new knife is dull from normal usage maintaining it with a combi stone of #1000/#3000 is enough no need to buy all the different stones. For a quick touch up a ceramic honing rod can be added for days when you don't have the time to maintain the edge on a stone.
But replacing a cheap knife with another cheap knife is an option too lol
@@chefpanko Awesome to know! Thank you!
How & wer I can purchase this charfining stone ang how much ect thanks.
For my latest recommendations you can visit my website:
www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/
great info!! im new to sharpening and this helps!!!!
Glad it was helpful!
let me make it easy-Suehiro debato MD line. they are fantastic stones. feel great, splash and go, cut well, cant ask for more.
They look good thanks for the name added it on my list :)
Thanks for the vid Chef, it's great you put in the Aliexpress links, especially for beginners who don't want or need expensive higher quality brands.
You should think about also putting in a link for an Amazon US/UK/etc alternative and use affiliate links which will help you monetize your vids a little.
Also: by 'presharpening' on the diamond stone, do you mean it takes a little while to settle? Would rubbing it against a soaking stone help prep it?
Will definitely look at the European affiliate solution thanks for the tip :)
As pre-sharpening for the Diamond stones, it depends on the brand the one on AliExpress definitely needed around 10/15 knives to be pre-sharpened on it before I got the desired grit rating that was stated. They started very coarse so the #400 was around #180 and the #1000 felt more like #600-#800 than #1000. But other brands like Atoma, DMT needed less pre sharpening and their (Atoma) other colored versions were almost at the grit level that you can expect from a ceramic stone. So I definitely see some new tech/binding method being used to combat diamond pre sharpening (however the newer binding/tech is 350 approx euro for #400 and a separate #1000). It is interesting that they managed to have a diamond plate with #6000 grit with their newer binding method.
It will indeed help a bit with using it to flatten your stone but best way was to use knives on it. (the one above from AliExpress needed around 10/15 pre sharpening).
Thanks for your inclusive information.
I got gold diamond sharpening stone. How different diamond stone and gold diamond stone, which one better?
Not sure what a gold diamond stone entails. What kind of coating is it? I l know that certain manufacturers add different diamond coating which increases the cutting rate or increases the wear resistance meaning you can use the diamond plates for longer before it wear out (or turn into a higher grit rating than advertised). Things like a Galvanic Bond Metal Bonding etc (Electroplating and layer order) will increase cutting performance for example but would wear out faster especially on lower Rockwell knives.
Best thing is to ask the manufacturer what kind of bonding they have added. When it comes to unknown brand and manufacturers it all depends on trial and error at that stage. (which can become more costly if you did not find one that had adequate performance than buying directly from a reputable brand that has been tried and proven to be great by many).
Keep in mind that that Diamond stones will wear out or rather said wear in. Meaning a coarse grit plate can become more medium of even a fine grit over time.
Excellent video, thanks!!!
Question! What Grit of wet stone do i use on a stainless steel pocket knife???
Very informative 👩🍳 chef. Thank you very much for sharing 💕
Thanks CP, I’d put 2 thumbs up if I could.
Hi chef, would love to have your thoughts regarding the Worksharp Ken Onion knife sharpener
What a coincidence, Worksharp just contacted me yesterday since Vincent (UnknownVT) from the bladeforums.com hooked me up with them.
They look like a well rounded and well thought out design. Each product has been designed while keeping all the functionalities.
I can't say much since I personally never tested the Ken Onion knife sharpener. But I do think that the Ken Onion edition is one of the most versatile sharpeners that they offer. I asked for the E5 sharpener since I thought that that would fit the cooks more since I cover kitchen knives but the E5 is based on the exact principles that the Ken Onion edition use but the Ken Onion edition is more versatile but less streamlined for home/kitchen use.
Vincent ''UnknownVT'' did a review about the Ken Onion you can read it there:
bladeforums.com/threads/work-sharp-knife-tool-sharpener-ken-onion-edition.1111087/
I personally can't say much about it since I have not tried it so if Worksharp approves with my request for the E5 review sample then I can give you mine in-depth review about it.
My only concern was de-tempering/ overheating the higher Rockwell Japanese knives. Since they don't need a lubricant like water so you use is completely dry.
But I got an answer back from Dan Doval (Worksharp principal designer) they use low surface pressure and with adjusting the speed there would not be any problems with de-tempering and the blade will not get hot. Therefore suitable for all knives even high carbon Japanese knives.
@@chefpanko Looking forward to your review of the E5. Would love an edge comparison vs whetstone sharpening. I have the Ken Onion and like it for its speed. I do have a whetstone as well, and while I find it very relaxing, it does take a bit longer to sharpen.
PS. Are you familiar with Kasumi knives?
What's your strop base? Looks really interesting.
It's from a company called Jende Industries this is their official website: jendeindustries.com/kangaroo-strop.html
Edited the pinned comment and description this strop was ''gifted'' they never asked me to make a video about it or to use it in a video.
@@chefpanko Thanks!
Very helpful - thank you!
Thank you for the comment :)
Thanks Chef!
Just got a leather belt a diamond stone 400 one side 600 the other side and i can whittle hair. 😎
Thank for inclusive information
Great video. Vat about charpening Case pocket knife with a chrome vanadium blade?
thank you for this!
that's gotta be one of the heaviest accents i've heard that screamed : "Dutch but not quite Dutch" into my ear lol
thanks for the video though .
Dutch indeed haha (and in some videos, you can see ''Calvé pindakaas'' in the background).
I need one how can I get
Hi Chef! Great video! This is exactly what I needed. I'm just getting into sharpening. Was thinking of investing in a 1000 grit stone, then green compound on some side of leather strop and one side just pure leather strop. Would this be good to start learning how to sharpen?
#1000 grit is a good start to sharpen dull knives, and you get a good edge with stropping after.
One thing to note is #1000 takes away more material from the knife. If the knife was slightly dull then and you have the time, I recommend a whetstone honing session on a #3000 gritstone.
And you should be able to get a slightly dull edge back in 2/5 min.
Since it depends on the knife condition, if you have broken tips., lower grit is recommended, or you will spend a lot of time on a #1000 grit and waste a lot of whetstone material.
For extra information, visit my website: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/
I will try to make a sharpening tutorial explaining how I do certain things and why.
@@chefpanko Thanks! Is it worth going from #1000 grit to green stropping compound? And just using stropping to hone rather than a #3000 whetstone? I'm trying to figure out if I should buy a #3000 whetstone or if a leather strop (I have one already) with green compound (will need to buy) is enough?
@@bboycrazybrown #1000 grit and green compound should give you a good enough edge and shaving results.
The hair shaving result does not say much but looks cool and is quite satisfying at first. Still, over time, you will understand that these sharpness tests are useless and more for entertainment purposes (as to my chart at the ''When'' on my website it is purely there as an indication to explain it but the ''When'' part and what grit should be done by feel and the knives purpose which is very hard to explain and the reason why I came up with an easy to understand example).
But this entirely depends on what you cook and the quility of the knife.
Cheap (low Rockwell of 56 or less) knives should do fine with just #1000 grit (and it is even more beneficial to go for a lower grit since the knife-edge can't hold the higher grit sharpness anyways), but specialized knives, for example, are specialized for a reason.
If you look at the chart: www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/ and scroll through ''What grit size do you use?''
I specified the ''Grit Size'' ''When'' and ''Why''.
You will see that #1000/#2000 is good enough for home use. (the examples are a generalization and just an indication).
With stropping, you should be fine. I personally don't strop at all but finish with a #3000 stone for my knives (except specialized knives or knives that I use at work).
Work knives that need to cut raw fish and serving raw fish I finish with a #6000+ stone
The difference is, the knife is specialized for fish, and we use different slicing techniques, so no continuous banging on the cutting board but slicing it with controlled speed and force without banging on the cutting board. (this is another reason we go beyond #3000 on certain knives. As you can see (video example below), we are barely touching the cutting board, so we can actually hold a high grit edge while preserving the raw fish freshness). In the video, I use mangoes since I don't film in a work environment (but I did take a picture of the Tuna that we need to portion size to get Sashimi or Nigiri slices out of it).
Video example: ua-cam.com/video/gYhRFWhl42g/v-deo.html
The slicing technique called ''Sogizukiri'' Slicing = it is basically to maximize the fish's surface area.
(in my case, the mango, if cut straight down the surface area is too small and can not be shaped in a nigiri, the rice would be visible and not gently covered like a blanket)
@@chefpanko thank you so much. This made it very very clear!
While honing compounds rarely list their grit, my understanding is that green compounds are generally about 6000 grit. Stropping with green compound on leather after a 1000 grit stone will clean up the edge and remove microburrs, but it won't do a great job of refining the scratch pattern left by a 1000 grit stone. I am a home cook and typically maintain my edge with a strop with green compound for months, or until I feel like putting a fresh edge on with a Naniwa Professional 800 (which many say is more like a 1000), and also their 3000. There are plenty of combo stones that jump from 1000/6000, but if you're actually trying to get a 6000 finish, in my opinion, you'll spend less time going from 1000 to 3000 to 5000 or 6000 than trying to go from 1000 to 6000.
What are the best type of natural stones?
I have not tested a lot of natural stones, but natural stones are inconsistent compared to man-made ones. The best choice comes down to the person using it and finding a stone they like since they are not equal. Even the Arkansas in the video there are specific spots I prefer more. So it is not consistent for the entire surface but you will find a way to use certain areas in your favor.
@@chefpanko I bought kuromakus but my knife teacher recommended natural because of the slurry and lower need for water, so I'm going to find out if I made a mistake
@@morehn Kuromakus? From Shapton? they are good, there is no need for natural stones. man-made ones are more consistent, the Japanese-made ones are so far as I know better quality. But competition from others might have risen up. Those stones also can form a slurry. Sharpening is more about your individual knowledge and the application of that knowledge. You are basically never done learning by hand sharpening since you can improve your own skills and learn various techniques. Finding out your mistakes will be easy you learn from mistakes and add more knowledge in your journey.
@@chefpanko in terms of the sharpening material, my main goal is to have the smoothest edge on a microscopic level. I was wondering if ceramic or natural would do a better job at that.
@@morehn ceramic since natural is as the name says natural it is what nature provides ie; can't be entirely consistent.
This was REALLY good fundamental information and well represented.
The accent can do with some work😅
Where can I find these grinding stone?
What is the "pre sharpening" you mentioned?
Also, why do those honeycomb diamond sharpeners only go to 1200?
My wording might have been incorrect as English is not my main language.
With Pre-Sharpening I mean that you need to sharpen it a few times before it actually feels like the mentioned grit rating.
So the first session on it will feel very coarse, this depends on the manufacturer too.
I have no idea why Honey Combs only go up to 1200, however, the brand DMT, while I don't think they mention the ratings, they do specify with a rating like: Extra Coarse, Coarse, Fine, etc.
The Japanese brand Atoma goes to 1200 if I'm correct but they have others with a different coating to go beyond that.
DMT can go beyond that. Their ''Extra Fine'' Diamond Bench is probably around 1000/3000 grit and their ''Extra-Extra Fine'' Diamond Bench is around 3000/5000.
But the material is important some knives will react or feel differently on certain types of whetstones.
@@chefpanko oh, sounds like pre sharpening is fine word choice, I just didn't know that about diamond stones. Thanks for the helpful reply!
Is there a ceramic stone you'd recommend from Aliexpress?
I unfortunately have not tried any, so I can't say much about those.
Hi ChefPanko! Do you know of any ceramic whetstones on aliexpress?
Unfortunately not, things on AliExpress are hard to recommend unless I have tried and tested them.
Thank you for letting me know that I don't need to blame the stone for my screw-ups lol
Burrfection made a test. Results: stones (about) above 1K grit doesnt make your knife shaprer.
(The Biggest Knife Sharpening Lie Online)
The majority of the results come from the person sharpening the knife, but it is also highly dependable on what types of food you use it for.
And the type of knife and steel-type, for home use, there is no need to go higher than 1000/2000 grit.
The when to use what and why it is important to understand.
So he is right; there is no need to go higher.
But the ''why'' is important.
While on my website, I have the ''when'' indication, but this is highly globalized to give an understandable indication:
www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/
But as you can see at the ''why'' you see that I indicate #1000 to #2000 grit for home use (explanation below).
#2000 to #3000 I have indicated meat and fish that you cook, but mainly focused on restaurant use (we prep first before we cook, and products need to stay as fresh as possible after prep).
But also the grit rating per knife Rockwell has an impact.
And for raw fish, I go above #5000 but also with a Rockwell above 62+ (there is no use to go above #5000 with a knife of a lower Rockwell)
Here is why we don't cook everything directly after it has been cut at a restaurant.
Structural integrity is the best. When food is uncut, the ripening process has been slowed down by putting them in the fridge. (or to slow down bacteria build-up).
For raw fish (we need to filet it first since blood and organs intact will affect the fish quility over time. It is better to filet it as soon as possible to prevent bacteria build-up).
Unfortunately, at the restaurant, we have limited space, and each product we get needs to be cut directly to free up storage space.
We do not sell everything directly, and we do not cut the food when it gets ordered. We do prep work to reduce the cooking time.
To get the food as fresh as possible, you need a sharper knife that does not bruise the produce to stay longer fresh.
Home use we cut and cook pretty much right after or even cut during cooking. Yes, I agree #1000 to #2000 is good enough, and yes, you can get hair shaving results if your own sharpening techniques are good.
But the toothy edge it creates is different than finishing on a #5000 grit. There comes sushi raw fish. Once fish has been filleted, we store uncut (no nigiri slices).
Here is an example of what I do at work:
ua-cam.com/video/gYhRFWhl42g/v-deo.html
As you can see, there a rectangular size, a size that is long enough for the fridge, but we start cutting once the batch is almost sold out.
This is because once it has been cut, the fish will produce extra moisture, and bacteria will build up faster, another reason we use single beveled Yanagiba to minimize those effects.
We directly file a fish because the organs and the blood on the fish will affect the fish's taste, especially eaten raw.
So, in short, yes, above 1k grit does not make it sharper, but the toothy edge it creates highly affects the food integrity dependent on the situation.
This is one reason you don't see me do the paper cutting test, arm shaving test, etc. in knife reviews or even talk about out of the box sharpness.
It creates misinformation for entertainment purposes.
Also important to know is the Grit rating. We mainly use Grit size with the Japanese JIS rating vs. ANSI/CAMI, FEPA rating.
When you know this, you understand that the ratings are just widely misunderstood and when or why it is needed for a particular application.
We also do something that we call blanching. It stops the ripening process. It adds color, and the food maintains the color after it has been cut, and it also reduces cooking time.
@@chefpanko Thank you for the effort to reply in so much detail! It is interesting to see the comlexity and the factors which play a role in your knife sharpening preferences, but pls dont forget that the video was about knife sharpening in general and thats what i was referring to!
Also, thank you for the great content, mainly for testing chinese knives and recommending chinese stones. Here in EU it just does not worth to get a japanese knife because of the shipping costs, however aliexpress has free shipping, which makes chinese knives a great option!
No worries just wanted to make some things clear, as I mostly agree with that statement that the majority don't need to go higher than #2000 grit.
For home use, #1000/#2000 is good enough, but the effect of the combination of higher grit and a knife that can actually benefit from it is important.
I personally like to use #3000 as my honing stone. (but it is hard to explain some things in a video as home use and restaurant use is different, so I try to back it up with extra information in the comments or my website).
Some stores in the Netherlands (Europe) do shipping within the EU, so no import tax is applied. You do need to pay for shipping ranging from 6 to 25 euros.
However, the right to send it back is still there within 14 days; however, the shipping cost back to them is on your behalf too.
To be completely honest, I mostly visit the local stores that have Japanese imported knives but sometimes, due to the extreme price hike (EU laws tax, etc.), I directly import them from Japan since even with shipping and import tax, the knives are still 20/30 euros cheaper than buying it here (in some cases even 50 euro cheaper).
The Chinese knife was a very long journey, as I have gotten way too many bad knives (especially at the beginning without knowing how to spot better brands).
I find it a waste of time to even make a video about them, and most bad knives came in the early stages.
If it wasn't for the request and this channel, I would actually have given up on them.
And then slowly started to discover a few hidden gems.
What knife did he use to cut the tomato?
Shibata Kotetsu Bunka: ua-cam.com/video/rrbIif5mYU4/v-deo.html
nice
Stropping can very well bring a knife back to being sharp.
Can you make a review about chinese cheap whetstone?
I would love to but the problem is that the store is closed on AliExpress where I got my whetstones from (Therefore I did not link them in the description and comment).
Since I don't know if each of the sellers has the same quility, I bought 3 stones from 3 different sellers 2 closed and one does not sell it anymore but switched to kitchen household tools.
Since I can't be sure if all sellers sell the same stones with the correct grit rating I have decided not to link any stores to avoid disappointment.
I have to say that some stones came chipped on the corners and they might break during shipping if it breaks you take a picture and you get a refund from AliExpress.
I'm planning to do the sharpening guide on the whetstones from China.
Because of the above explanation I can't do a review on them since I don't know if you get the exact same stones from different sellers.
@@chefpanko i just wanna know if the stone can really sharpen the knife or not since their price very cheap
They can sharpen your techniques is what matters the most. I will only use the stones that are made in China in the sharpening guide to show that the brand does not matter as much.
I heard cutting speed is what they lack on due to price reason but i think it is still reasonable
@@KenxanTV It has more to do with the binding method, synthetic stone, in general, will dish out faster than a ceramic stone.
So not necessarily because it is made in China. A ceramic stone will cut faster due to its hardness (and again not because of the brand but rather the material that they use and the binding method).
What makes the real difference? The binding method and material which varies per brand, some will cut faster which can be compensated with a lower gritstone.
So the difference is in the feedback you get from the stones, which can be harder for beginners since the softer the stone the faster it dishes out. In some cases it can dish out during your sharpening session. And since you did not have to build the muscle memory you can't adapt to the curve automatically and therefore the result in sharpness may not be optimal. (Therefore it is important for beginners to keep the stone flat at all times).
So if you put those material choices together you get the following for the #1000 grit.
Diamond will be the faster, won't dish out but you need to pre-sharpen a few times to get the desired grit.
Ceramic stone is faster since you don't have to soak them and harder than a soaking stone. The feedback you get is smoother since it doesn't dish out so much.
Soaking stone is cheaper because it does not have what the ceramic one has, it dishes out faster the stone is also softer, the feedback is less visible so if you make a mistake you won't notice it.
But in the end does it matter that much for the end result? Not really it all comes down what you know and how you apply your knowledge/ sharpening techniques on those stones.
I have written the important point here on my website:
www.chefpanko.com/maintenance-sharpening/
I hope that that helps.
Amazing
Hello a pic of granite sharps ood
7:42 Shibata Kotetsu Bunka ??
Yep completely correct :)
From 6:08 will be grit explain
Don't neglect the coarser stones, you will curse everything and spend an hour forming a burr on a 800 grit stone, and good luck maintaining the angle for that long time as a beginner. Buy yourself a 200-300/1000-1500 Japanese stone, form a burr on a coarse side, then get rid of the burr on the finer side and boom, you got yourself a sharp knife in less than 10 minutes. Strop that knife on a leather with green Chromium oxide compound, and you can shave with that knife.
As an axe guy, I prefer having 400 grit, white corundum stone around.
It's completely subjective, even personal. But, KING [brand] 1000/6000 is where to start. No flattening stone or erasure needed. No tub or sink extension/holder needed. The ONLY thing else required is a dull knife. Otherwise, get an electric sharpener and stamped blades.
Still waiting on your Knife Sharpening guide!!
Hope to get it done soon! It has been long overdue.
@@chefpanko Ha! This guy is a joke
How about 30k grit
what about it? over 10000+ you are basically doing it for aestatic reasons. Like a mirror polish etc, but if you want to go beyond the cutting edge (the blade face/sides) you are better off with a powder solution to finish the things of as you may find some high and low spots.
I'm really pleased with this! It works like a charm ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxDcr-y2Pf6xdnrFHrSP7dl9kpKaCozcSQ Takes less time than my old electric sharpener because it can take more off the knife faster, and then it smooths out nicely with the finer grit polisher. I don't know how long it will last before the grit wears away, but I wouldn't mind having to replace it every once in a while.
6:22
Bruh this guy outdoor77 something
Confused the hell of the these stones
But its my fault not to think about types of abrasive compound such quartz and aluminium oxide which google says is a ceramic sharpening stone, and norton sell a ceramic alumina sharpening stone which is the same compound
I wad told that ceramic sharpening stones are more durable and don't end up thinner in the centre
But then comes sand paper logic
Aluminium oxide wears out fasters and cuts fasters
Silicone carbide cuts slower and lasts longer
Now "Al2O3 wears out" yeah some much for no dishing out, then again that doesn't not make sense the stone has to end up no flat at some pount because it wears away when used
Eish man
Can I trust a wikipedia article on this,
But now wouldn't zirconia be the best thing out there,
Now I want to know how tp classify sharpening stones and what is the wear out rate, lastly what do I use to make the stone flat again
Can diamond stones work but will this damage the diamond stones?
The variations of abrasive compounds and bindings are something you can do a deep dive on. But keep in mind that each manufacturer will have their own mixture added.
As I have spoken to multiple manufacturers and blacksmiths, they sometimes outsource things to sub-contractors for specific parts or materials and then make them in their own factory.
This differs per knife brand and series that they offer.
You can use a flattening stone to flatten the whetstones.
diamond stones will work too to flatten whetstones but keep in mind that the diamond coating will eventually wear off.
Therefore it will become less effective and abrasive thas a lot of holes where water can be trapped inside so even if it is a stainless plate it will rust if exposed to water for too long.
As for the dishing out rate, the synthetic soaking whetstone wears out the fastest. Ceramic will wear out too but not as fast last the synthetic ones. Natural stones depend on the type of natural stone but it seems to wear out less than a ceramic one. As for a Diamond plated one the diamond coating will eventually wear off but it stays relatively flat since you have to replace it with a new diamond-coated plate.
One thing about the Natural stones, the grit rating will vary with every single natural stone. so they are not as accurate in terms of grit rating compared to synthetic/man-made stones.
So when a manufacturer tells you that the stone rating is #1000 on a natural stone it sits more between #800/1200 and varies on each part of the stone. This will have its own benefit since each part of the blade will wear out at a different rate, therefore, giving you longer edge retention but not the sharpest cleanest cutting performance throughout the blade edge. (a toothier finish than a synthetic one).
@@chefpanko wait so can I use Arkansas stones also I know stanley and grip make sharpening bench stones but I assume these are for chisels and they seem very rough,
My question is can I use these for edge refining chisels and knives
I plan to set the bevel with my 1x30 belt grinder with a 120 grit belt then refine to a 400 grit trizak 3m belt now I assume I should start at a 600 or 800 grinlt stone for refining the edge
Then finish with a 1000 grit for practical cutting such as not for food
But lets say For food can I just go to a 2000 grit finish
My reason for this is it would cost me around +500 usd if I were to get a 400,600,800,1000,1500,2000,2500,3000 grit stones ceramic or not ceramic
And this is too costly for me
I'd like to have just a 1000 grit cermaic stone for edge refinement and stop there,
I do like the better polished edges but I don't think its practical since I'm not a chef and I don't do much cutting of food,
What I would like is a practical edge not something that requires 4-5 stones
I have no use for super perfection Just want something decently sharp and can cut through paper easily
I'm not using my knives for cutting paper I mean cutting paper easily as in the paper cutting test,
@@ThatOneOddGuy The sharpening ''basics'' remain the same, there may be different techniques and details for pocket knives, chisels, kitchen knives, etc to get the ''best edge'' for a certain person. But the basics of sharpening remain the same.
Sharpening simply means shaving off material to create a new edge, how well that new edge performs depends mostly on the person doing the free-hand sharpening and the intended usage.
You can get a smooth paper cutting edge with just an #800 grit stone and a strop on some newspaper. (it can even be hair shaving sharp)
The #grit rating is there for your convenience, it makes things easier depending on the state of your knives.
A lower grit rating simply removes material faster, but it will leave an aggressive edge (toothier edge).
The state of the knives determines what #grit is best suited for that specific situation.
If you never get a knife to a certain state since you maintain it well enough then you can just do fine with an 800/1000 grit. Even with an 800 grit, you will be able to shave hair after a quick strop.
So you will be fine with just 1000 grit and a free newspaper to strop on, it will be hair shaving sharp and will go through paper with no problems (depending on your sharpening skills).
A knife will get dull due to usage, the edge will bend left and right and in order to get the sharpness back, you can hone it on a honing rod which will straighten the edge.
However, there is a point where the knife can hold the edge after each honing session on a honing rod. the more often you straighten the edge back the more the knife edge will wear out.
This is something I call ''knife fatigue'', it is the same as a paperclip. It will hold its shape perfectly but once you start bending it left and right it won't hold the shape and eventually breaks off leaving you with fatigued steel at the broken end. This is what I call knife fatigue, sharpening requires a few things, including re-bevelling the edge if it is broken or when you want to try a different angle. The second thing is maintaining this edge, it means using the same bevel but shaving the fatigued edges off (because you honed it too much and the edge retention is dropping so normally the knife stays sharp for ''1 month'' but now it gets dull again after ''1 week or a few days'' which is an indication for a sharpening session ie: removing the fatigued steel).
This gives you the following guideline:
#100-400 grit: When?
Broken tips, chips on the blade.
Why?
Removing chips, on a damaged knife. (it is faster to repair it since it removes material faster saving you time in your case your belt grinder will fix this purpose)
#500-#800: When?
A dull knife, bend cutting core a knife that has not been maintained for a very long time but there are no chips that have to be repaired.
Why?
Getting an edge on a complete dull knife.
#1000-2000: When?
When you feel that the knife is not sharp anymore.
Why?
Getting a medium to fine edge good enough for home use and meat like Chicken, Duck, Beef, Pork.
#2000 - #3000: When?
If you feel like the toothier edge of #1000 is not for you.
Why?
Maintenance: Salads/uncooked veggies that don't get eaten right away. (honing/ touch up/ restaurant) It gives a smoother edge great for salads since it will stay fresh for longer.
And for cheap knives, it is not even practical to go for a higher grit since the steel was soft, to begin with, and can't hold a certain angle, edge, or finish.
You get better results and longer edge retention with a toothier edge on those knives.
@@chefpanko thx alot man 800 grit should work then
Also I heat treat my knives to about 55-61 HRC
The edge should hold up well
How to sharpen a knife.
Step 1: Sharpen the stone
Dish out problem? Go shapton