Sabian- Inside Their Cymbal Production, In-Depth Look At How A Cymbal Is Made
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2010
- This is an in-depth look at how Sabian makes its world famous cymbals. Crafted from an ancient family formula, passed down for generations the cymbal factory employees an amazing amount of old-world handcrafting mixed with some important modernizations. In this video the team from Factories That Rock give you an interesting all access factory tour.
Sabian is owned by Robert Zildjian who left the Zildjian family following a dispute with his older brother, then started his own company named after his 3 kids, Sally, billy and Anne
Sabian makes the best cymbals money can buy. I recently upgraded my 25 year old B8 Pros for AAX. 10" Splash, 14" X-Cellerator Hats, 14", 16" and 18" X-Plosion Crashes, 18" Chinese and 21" Raw Bell Dry Ride. All in a Brilliant finish. Fantastic sound and look!
Zoltan is the best money can buy, hand made turkish b20s are the highest quality cymbals you can get, for Sabina that quality it's $1500, for Zoltan that quality , $300
"The casting are carefully prepared." *throws castings*
Throwing the castings, though it looks really bad in this context, does them no harm. But juxtaposed against 'carefully prepared' it does look rather silly. Video editors should be more sensitive to the relationship between the talk-over script and the video. (LOL)
Yeah I found it funny too
@@MrCherryJuice aadjdjweekwe
Emejee
They were not castings for cymbals (which are bronze), they were ingots of tin, for remelting. And in any case, the care of preparation has to do with what is inside a casting: correct metallurgy (the recipe and the conditions in which the constituents melt and combine) resulting in correct crystalline structure and lack of inclusions or gaseous porosity. Noe of this is in any way changed by tossing castings into a heap, because the outer surface is removed during subsequent operations. MrCherryJuice makes what I think is a valid point, though, about the desirability of not distracting from the narrative by poor editing.
I got tears in my eyes, cause the guy weighing the cymbals at 5:51 uses a wagging balance (a spirit level is included). There is a lack of precision
A lack, relative to what exactly?
I just love these vids :) When you play some instrument and you love its sounds, it is always great to know how it is made, to see how much work it costs to make something of this quality
@SAEWOT At SABIAN, the process of combining the metals is a very closely guarded secret. No one is allowed in the building during an actual melt… not even a film crew. So what was actually filmed that day was a tin melt, not the actual ‘secret’ process. That way you still see the equipment used and the basic process but the ‘secret’ remains a secret.
Cymbals de alta qualidade. É SABIAN CYMBALS.
Helps me to understand why some cymbals can be so expensive.
There are numerous factors that impact the price of a cymbal (or any artisan piece). There are the practical costs of making the item - acquisition of raw materials, production and management overheads, marketing, shipping...all the typical and identifiable ones (which explains why cymbals made in China cost less than those made in Switzerland). Beyond that the pricing can become subjective and based on perceived value and the willingness of the market to accept certain price points. This is most evident in the art world, where Damien Hirst's stuffed shark carcass, the raw materials for which cost only a few thousand pounds (£) and was priced at several hundred thousand dollars but sold for 12 million (and is now worth about 50 million), those who wondered about value versus price had an excellent example to evaluate. How did the price get to be so high? Hirst was represented by top art personality Charles Saatchi, who (i) had a sales showing of the shark at London's Royal Academy and listed it for sale via a top broker. Each of those - because of the perceived value of their own brands - added millions to the value of the shark, ultimately achieving the $12 million sale. Why would anyone pay so much? (And there are even more questionable examples, like Jeff Koon's (store bought) vacuum cleaner in a glass case selling for $2.6 million.) High prices are driven largely by branding and the insecurity of the customer - insecure customers comfort themselves by owning the 'best' or 'most expensive'). Is a Zildjian worth more than a Sabian? Materially speaking, no. Production costs (higher in Boston) and brand position-wise (#1), yes. Is a Meinl cymbal worth as much as a Zildjian? Materially speaking, yes, but brand-wise no (which will lead some to claim they are too expensive). So one could argue that the real driver of price is the brand, which is the perception held by the people in the market. If the brand is seen to be #1, then people will pay more. If the brand is #2 it can't charge as high a price without risking its potential to be competitive. In the case of the smaller Turkish brands, their often surprisingly high prices (seeing as they aren't effectively branded) have much to do with lower production and sales volume necessitating higher prices in order to stay alive. Are they better cymbals? In many cases they do sound 'better' in the they sound like what they claim to be. But ultimately they are - material- and labour-wise - the same thing. And if their branding were as powerful as, say, Zildjian or Sabian, they would likely seriously challenge that upper end of the market. So next time you see a t-shirt going for $400 or a pair of sneakers fo $800 or some other ludicrous pricing on a designer item, remind yourself that it's a $10 of t-shirt and $390 of brand etc. If you're using Apple products, well, they are a good example of major price markups thanks to powerful branding. Apologies for the length, but your question, simple as it is, has a rather complex answer based more on market psychology than anything else.
Currently I have the AA 14" el sabor hats,the HH 21"raw bell dry ride,two 18" AAXplosion crashes and one AAX 18"aero crash. Love all of them!
I just watched this video, and i feel amazed so much. This is the reason why i love sabian badly.
The only brand I’ll play.
I have a set of 14” HH EQ Hats. Amazing sound and cool look.
This video is really neat! Thanks for uploading! I am saving my money for some Sabians.
wooooow this is great!!! nice work!
i love sabian cymbals they sound the best and the AA and the AAX series are the best.
I love Sabian cymbals got classic AA's and newer AAX still got 1 pair of hybrid Zildjian K custom top and Z Dyno beat bottom hi hats that I love too.
😃Super, Sabian from Canada👍👍👍
Super interesting!
It is very impressive.
"these casts are carefully prepared"
-lobs cast into box- lmao!! :D
Guys/gals - the availability and cost of cymbal brands is relevant to where you live. I grew up near the zildjian factory therefore zildjian was everywhere and more affordable. If you live near the Paiste factory, it's the same.
i just fell in love with sabian
"The key is to hammer the cymbal perfectly", by that logic I can be an authority on space shuttles! "The key is to construct the shuttle perfectly"
I love Sabian Cymbals. I used Sabian B8 since 2006, it sounds great 🙏🙏👍
Love to Sabian. Thank you x
amazing!
When I will come to Canada can I go into that factory for the tour?
I'm highly tempted to move to Canada JUST to work here.
I come here because Jimmy Owen Sullivan (The Rev) used this product. R.i.p jimmy.
Los mejores ♥️👌
Zildjian who????, when I was a child I use to dream using those Zildjian cymbals, but I grew up now and I've been using Sabian since the very begining, I LOVE IT, their creativity, their sound, their prices, their service, they are amazing, truly the best cymbals in the world, that's why I can't even remember that other company that starts with Z, is like Zildj, something like that!!!!, ja ja ja ja ja
Juan Carlos Coto lol i see what u did there...not everyone knows sabian is made by ziljian
Juan Carlos Coto You do know sabian's founder is Robert Zildjian right?
Juan Carlos Coto Sabian's formula is litteraly Zildjian's formula, just more exaggerated.
Awesome👍👏
Do these not continue to age/temper/improove upon years of regular use?
awesome! its crazy to think that the biggest & greatest cymbal manufacturer is in meductic!
can someone tell me, in the melting room. when the craftsman pours the metal , its like
silver! in the zildjian video part 2, they show the foundrey again except, when poured
the metal is fire red. why is the 2 prosses diffrent from each other ? sincerly andy !
From what I know, Sabian uses only tin when it demonstrates the melting process, which is why it looks like 'silver'. This is probably a security measure so other cymbals makers seeing the video can't identify things.
I LOVE SABIAN
Woop woop! It's in Canada!
I'm not aware of any other business where a person who works on a lathe is called a "Lather"
Everywhere else I know of, the process carried out on a lathe is called turning, and the operator is a turner.
I couldn't even find that meaning "lather" in a dictionary; all that came up was foam, such as you get on sweaty horses and shaving brushes (of course the vowel sound is different, rhyming with father)
In freedictionary.com, there was actually "lather" as a job description, but only in relation to a person who puts up laths (strips of wood which are plastered over in traditional house construction)
Good Video Sabian Cymbals
Sabian cymbals are wonderful yes
Factory Fact! Sabian is awesome!
You know the guy who made Sabian cymbals, is a Zildjian too right? They're brothers...
yes they are sold as pairs
I used to be a ziljian guy when I was younger. As soon as I heard the aax xplosion series I was sold
Wow, the best cymbals on the world.
I agree its strictly a matter of taste...I like Zildjian's, but I LOVE Sabian!!!
I like old Zildjian's and ALL Sabian's. My favorites are the AAX brilliant models because they are "almost dark".
@@bbeau2023 In my experience, the AAX bright models have a very unique sound compared to the AAX natural models. It could be just me....
sabian voult would be my disney.. which i could visit there
hello internet, is the polyuretane solution spray exclusive of the Z brand. i've watched few "how they're made" videos and so far only they address this procedure. anyone?? thanks
Can somebody tell me if there is a hi hat that sounds like the fierce hat but has a higher pitch?
I have 14 stage hats, 16 and 18 xplosions, 21 ride, 15 and 21 holy china, 10 splash and 10 ozone splash, and i got a 10 chopper coming in this week🔥
WOW!!
I’m a Zildjian guy. Sabian IS Zildjian.
Christ, I wish I could work in this industry.
This is my dream job
I honestly doubt it but our school kind if broke well have other things are prioritized over cymbals. We only have one good pair or cymbals for concert season and and 1 good pair if thick cymbals for marching and cadences. I would love it if yall could donate cymbals to us and yes I know there expensive but I imagine yall have some scraps that are decent but wont go for the usual prices.
Just bought A 14" Sabian AAX hi-hat, great sound and now I know what they've been through. Are hi-hat couples specifically selected as pairs, like drumsticks?
Yes, hi-hats are specifically selected. I realize your question is from 5 years ago, but possibly someone else is seeking the same answer.
This is true of all cymbal companies today. The bottom has been heavier than the top, thanks to Louis Bellson in 1963 when he specified the top one being lighter than the bottom from Zildjian - now known as Zildjian New Beats. Before then, they weights were very close with the profile of the top being taller which gives it a higher pitch.
I have a pair of the pre-1963 hi hats from Zildjian in the Avedis model and the bottom one actually weighs slightly less than the top one and has a lower pitch thanks to the difference in the profile. They sound amazing in smaller venues with acoustic instruments, with or without sticks or brushes - the "chick" sound is like a kiss.
Great
SUPER
Factory Facts!
So godly...:o
SABIAN HI-HATS .... Forever!!!
instead of just turning 90 degrees at the roller they should turn like 10-15 degrees to help with durability... seems that would help more 'molecularly'...
BEAUTIFUL HHX
With all these "secret" melts, you'd think a cymbal company could develop a cymbal I can't break in a year.
It's a musical instrument. You're supposed to PLAY it, not BEAT it. I have a Zildjian Avedis ride cymbal and a pair of Zildjian Avedis hi hats that I bought new in 1966 and they still have no flaws and sound great. They started out in a garage band and graduated to jazz. This is not to say that Zildjian is better or worse than Sabian. I have both and love them both.
so much work for one cymbal
The cymbal making process is very precise and takes a lot of work, but this narration makes it sound way more difficult than it really is. I mean molecules settling? C'mon now...haha
The crystal grid of the alloy actually does take time to mature
What is that cymbal at 4:43???
Someone from Sabian or Guruzmedia should be responding to this. It would take someone from the Vault to have an idea as to what it is. It appears to be a crash, but what model - because each is defined largely by shape, bell size and thickness (weight) - is impossible to tell from this clip.
Is this how my XS20 16'' medium-thin crash was made?
Isn't the tempering process a standard for cymbal production? I mean all companies do it, so why is it such a big secret?
FACTORY FACT !
5:47 that guy has the best job 😂
Joseph Harmon I bet at the end of the day he has a serious headache and a serious case of tinnitus. I wouldn’t want that job. I feel bad for the hand hammering guys. That constant hammering must be hell on your entire body including your hearing.
6:08 heaven :)
🤗🤗🤗👍🤘
@5:52 scale is wobbly
Yes, the cameraman should have fixed that. Though it doesn't affect the weighing, it suggests carelessness...though it is a factory setting and such things are hardly a concern.
@NickRoelsConcerts13 They always freaked me out! they're so squishy!!!!
ok that fully means that fully melted that the ingredents end up a firey cherry red hot metal but i see a full diffrence in the metals poured in zildjians factory it is a firey cherry red hot metal in the video i see here it is like chrome or silver not red hot i see a diffrent change in metals here although they are the same reply thanks !
so I guess that's the reason why they cost more than the other cymbal brands
@HackerGuitarist
You cannot determine which company makes better cymbal from how old has the company stands, or artists who play them. You must have your own preference. Each cymbals manufacturers has it's own characteristics. Meinl has their incredible Byzance, Sabian makes o-zones, Zildjian makes other fashion cymbals, etc. BTW, current owners of Sabian and Zildjian are cousins. They have the same cymbal-making formula from their grandfather, Avedis Zildjian III.
niiiice
Only sabian will do for the drummer of Amaranthus/ Avower!! Only the best, the strongest, the loudest will do! AAX forever
You must be able respect their price a bit more after watching this video. To see it goes through that many processes and comes out to be the finished product, the price tag has to seem low.
which is better hhx or aax???
Your question is 6 years old but possibly someone is still interested in an answer. First, AAX and HHX start life as the same thing: B20 bronze pressed into shape. The difference has to do with that shape, the hammering and the lathing choices. But the key for you as a player has to do with the sound. HHX is darker sounding; AAX is brighter sounding. They are both innovative designs aimed at delivering these dark and bright sounds within modern music, which means they are more dynamically sensitive and response accurate than traditional cymbals. Sabian differentiates their series like this: AA = Vintage Bright; AAX = Modern Bright; HH = Vintage Dark; HHX = Modern Dark. I loved HH until HHX came along, simply because the 'tone projection' concept outperformed traditional designs, and the models were more suitable (i.e. innovative). So, HH = lower pitched and darker; AAX = higher pitched and brighter. The 'better' depends on your preference.
Sabian can you start making the 22 inch HH Leopard again? please???
You should be able to order one direct. Ask your local music shop, or contact Sabian direct. I believe they will then bill you through the music shop of your choice.
muinto maneiro sò falto seren portugués rsrsrsrsr
@HackerGuitarist have you heard of Neil Peart, Mike Portnoy, The Rev? some of the greatest drummers in the world, and they use Sabian. I think people like Zildjian better because of the logo =/
Sabian is the finest their is period.
I really wish you let drummers order something like Sizzle Hats or AA cymbals as they were.I mean people are looking for AA cymbals all the time and can only find them used.
It was one of the reasons I stuck with Sabian, unavailable now !
Why fix something when it's OK ?
😢
❤️❤️❤️👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️
@HackerGuitarist Hmmm, I've never heard of Zildgian. Could you possibly mean Zildjian?
dat alloy liquid looks tasty
i like sabian and paiste thats it
"Secret" melting process,there is no secret melting process. That's the secret! What Avedis found out was how to make the copper,tin and traces of silver non-brittle. It's the repeated rolling and heating,that's the real secret.
Good point! If it were just dropping hot blanks into water then everyone would know - and have - the secret.
am i the only one who keeps on rewinding to see the big marshmallow label maker??
That is a silicone ball. Prior to that Sabian used hand stamps that were refreshed on an ink pad. Then the cymbal would be stood in front of fans to dry the ink. Often times the ink was gooey and would stick to the inside of the bags they were shipped in, thus the change to thinner inks and those balls.
the factory that rock2 ??
Basic drummer starter pack
*sabian cymbals*
*vic firth sticks*
*evans heads*
*pearl drums*
Evans heads are pretty good tho.
(By the way I played 10 years)
I feel attacked by this. Lol. I guess I'm just basic.
Wrong Chad Smith plays this setup except Remo heads
Do you mean this?
Sabian HHX/AAX cymbals
A big stack of Vic firth sticks
Evans drum head
Pearl Reference series kit?
Yes great set up
Crazy to think I'm living in this cheap apartment working fast food to get through college and 4 of these are in my bathroom closet: a, aa, a custom, aax
Meinl cymbals for the win
@MortalGamerDC1 85 to each their own tbh with their new price increase and lack of stock. Not my cymbal maker of choice.
sweet
Ok, that scale at about the 6:00 mark ... shouldn't that be level prior to weighing? :-)
Exactly. Shoot the film people for not noticing.
How can Stagg and similar companies make better low-mid range cymbals than the big 3 companies?
That definitely sounds like a fault with the cymbal. Stagg make some great sounding stuff, but as you suggest, they're not all perfect. But that can be true with any brand of cymbal, particularly B20 bronze ones, simply because imperfections can happen inside the metal. The ones on the outside are typically 'erased' using a grinder, but ones inside are invisible. That's where the warranty on the cymbal is important. In some countries there is an automatic 12-month legal warranty, though most companies offer their own warranty program.
I don't like Sabian, but the video was pretty informative...
SABIAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@TheWitchOvAgnesi no cymbal should break, unless your technique is impropr.
...or unless there is an internal flaw in the metal. That happens occasionally with B20 bronze, where an air pocket or piece of dirt gets trapped within the metal.