Star Wars: The Last Jedi reviewed by Mark Kermode
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Mark Kermode reviews Star Wars: The Last Jedi. With the resistance on the back foot in the fight against Supreme Leader Snoke and The First Order, Rey sets out to convince Luke Skywalker to return from his self-imposed exile and bring renewed hope to the galaxy.
Please tell us what you think of the film -- or Mark’s review of the film - below. We love to include your views on the show every Friday.
www.bbc.co.uk/5...
Fridays at 2pm on BBC 5 live.
Love that due to Mark not being a fanboy he didn’t have any hype and was able to enjoy the film as it was without unnecessary nitpicking and folk in the comments are saying he’s an idiot or wrong. Not like he’s a professional critic or anything..
Who's here watching this after Kermode's Rise of Skywalker review?
"Action is character." That also applies to Dunkirk earlier this year as well for people complaining about its lack of characterization.
Love how I can tell the sentiment of the review before watching it by just looking at the like-dislike ratio. Not just this video, but every other review of The Last Jedi.
cant do that anymore -_______-
Star Wars is that one movie franchise where I try not to take the comments section too seriously.
Thank you, SW community is pretty toxic unfortunately. Fandom has gone to the dark side (as it so often does). I'm looking forward to seeing it soon.
Ernesto Nuguid I rest my case
Rick and Morty fandom vs SW fandom?
lol same.
TheArtkaw yikes that’s a close one hahahaha
I was so surprised by how good it was. I thought Looper was good but not that good, and The Force Awakens made it seem like the whole series had set off down an incredibly predictable, formulaic road. So I wasn't expecting much, but I came out of it thinking it was the best sci-fi film I'd seen in a very long time, and the richest, most satisfying Star Wars film ever made.
There are flaws here and there, sure, but the amount of startling, dramatically loaded scenes, scenes that do that thing where you realise you've been holding your breath the whole time, overrode those flaws completely. And there just hasn't been a character as interesting as Kylo Ren in a Star Wars film before. The bit of dialogue where he talks to Rey about her parentage, is the most brilliant piece of writing in the whole film - what he says, and the way he says it, is at once callous, contemptuous and emotionally vulnerable, and says so much about what is going on inside both characters' heads. The whole film was a magnificent balancing act between dramatic subtlety and all-out spectacle, and the Snoke fight scene was utter genius.
I didn't think he was an interesting character until I watched TLJ. I agree that he wasn't particularly interesting in TFA - he was just an angry kid. Meh. But in TLJ we see this character unfurl spectacularly.
You didn't like the fact that he has none of the fear factor of other baddies...and that's exactly what I like about him. He makes you shift the way you think about baddies in Star Wars films. He's a powerful, weak child. He's full of a kind of desperation to belong and he's deeply bad at social interaction. Imagine saying any of that about Darth Vader - you couldn't. It's ridiculous to even imagine doing so. He's a pantomime villain; a great one, maybe the greatest, but there's nothing of substance or heart there. Just menace and power.
Ren is what happens when a director/writer decides to ask what the inner life of a deeply powerful Sith is really like.
If I'd watched TLJ ten years ago maybe I'd have been less impressed. But since then I've watched two TV series that have changed the way I think about mainstream cinema: The Sopranos and Breaking Bad. They showed that it's perfectly possible to delineate complex characters while embedding them in something close to an action movie(particularly Breaking Bad). I think they've both changed the way mainstream cinema thinks about character development. Kylo Ren in TLJ is the result. Definitely not perfect, and there are some contradictory moments when you compare his behaviour with previous things he's done, but there were more than enough moments of real emotional heft for me to come away very impressed.
The Last Jedi is my third favourite Star Wars film, but I think it’s the most important in the series in terms of the Jedi as an organisation - their arc from Prequel to Originals to now.
Thank you for this nuanced review. This movie was totally focused on the characters and their single small arcs. They have never been so fleshed out. First it seems the general plot may not have developed so much, but actually it not just moved forward, but jumped.
I really loved it. It was genuinely funny, engaging, unpredictable and bold. Finally a movie on its own, not another cheap playing on nostalgia and doing a fan service.
When i first watched it I really hated it, probably because it went against everything I expected. On 2nd viewing though, I think its great and it really deserved a better pay off from the last film.
Yeah, that's it, I think Last Jedi without further inspection can look like it's simply saying "movies before bad and boring" but there's so much more thought that went to how much the film actually compliments the films before, even the prequels which I thought was nice.
I really don't know why people hated this film
I liked it too !
You know Mark really likes something when he starts using vague metaphors to describe its quality. :P
Mark Hamill was the saving grace. And old Frank Oz. The scene with little Yoda literally had me gushing with tears. Here was the real Yoda that we grew up with.
he had.
I know it does. Happy New Year.
Mark Hamill made this film. 😚😚🤗🤗
i may be one of the few, but i agree with mark 100% that this film did such a good job with character development. i felt fully satisfied with how newbies were introduced, how characters went on their individual journeys and how they all end up together again at the end. but feel free to comment on why you disagree.
Yeah you are part of the majority. This movie got a 96% rt score, and is the second highest grossing movie of all time. And it is genuinely a great film. But fanbois are butthurt their dumb theories didnt pan out, hence the comment section.
I agree - really enjoyed the film and glad they moved away from the predictable TFA....I loved the twists and turns.
Rey and Kylo didnt develop. Luke acted in a way that he would never have, even according to Mark Hamill. Snoke was irrelevant. Phasma was irrelevant. The codebreaker isnt who we thought he was going to be, then was someone they lucked into, who then betrayed them. Everyone failed at what they were trying to do. Luke's death was wasted, and its now backed into a corner that Leia will probably die off screen in the next movie. Finn was just Finn, and he would have died a hero, but for Rose. I suppose Po developed, but it was away from his heroism and toward just blindly following his bosses. Mas Canata was irrelevant. Chewie was irrelevant. The Porgs are just an excuse to sell plush toys. Laura Dern was irrelevant. Admiral Akbar died with no fanfare. How is that a good job with character development? Which characters developed in a good way?
I think this goes a little further than fanbois are butthurt their dumb theories didnt pan out. When you leave hanging questions in the first film, you are practically telling people to come up with theories. Not paying off those set ups is bad film making. Its basically Chekov's Gun. Dont show a gun in the first act if no one is going to get shot in the 2nd or 3rd act. It cant be a great film because its downfall isnt the CGI or bad acting, but bad film making. Also, bombs (or controllers that set off bombs) dont fall in zero gravity.
Wrong I think there is a genuine split.
Coming back to this after just getting out of the Rise of Skywalker. Whatever they set up in this film was undone in a sentence (two at most) of the opening crawl. Completely baffled as to how to sum up this trilogy in the end. Muddled at best?
There was no overarching plan for this trilogy or if there was then it went out the window after Force Awakens. Ryan Johnson did what he wanted but he wasn't interested in making his vision fit seamlessly with the rest of the franchise. This is not the best way to make a trilogy...
@@Rendell001 whilst it is clear there wasn’t a plan for the trilogy, The Last Jedi did not feel like an unnatural follow up to The Force Awakens - Kermode says himself in this review that it very much carries on from one to the other (yes, the tone was different but it certainly didn’t feel like the story was going in a completely new direction). The Rise of Skywalker was the problem - instead of continuing the narrative like its predecessor did, it wiped the slate clean and started again in an unnatural and disjointed way with the sole motivation to undo the plot threads that drove a subsection of the star wars fanbase mad
This is a film for the critics, not for the fans. The action felt tagged on and the inner soul implosions Kermode references are overshadowed by flat jokes and an unforgivable underuse of core characters.
I can't justify my view further without spoiling the movie for those yet to see it - but the tone is set within the first few minutes and barely salvages itself in the latter half (which seems like a different film altogether).
I hope anyone reading this loves the film in a way that I couldn't, and, as a Star Wars fan, I pray the tangent for the franchise hasn't been adversely set by this confused and uneven entry in the sequence.
Couldn't agree more. Been a huge Star Wars fan since I was 8 years old, and while the movie certainly has its flaws it still mamaged to be an amazing experience.
'sup dudebro?
I am so conflicted on this movie. I felt it could have been better. Really disappointed but it had moments I loved.
I actually don't find it to be bad at all just some things felt off in my opinion. I need to watch it a second time to see how I feel. Because like Rey, I think I see the light in it
Agreed, I didn't love the movie but can't really say why. It had good character progression,good set pieces and good settings but I just left feeling a bit ..meh. I think it's going to be one of those movies that's better the second time round.
I hope so man, I really do.
Snoke knows you would be unable to hide your conflict and internet trolls would be unable to resist that bait.
My problem with it is that I fundamentally do not buy into the first order as the villains. Maybe I'm too attached to the heir to the empire books, but I do not believe that after spending 3 movies beating the facists that 'oh look, what's that group of people in pointy ships and white armour? Oh it's more fascism'
I don't understand why from a writing standpoint the baddies couldn't just be the empire. Why keep the pointy ships and the walkers and the stormtroopers and the nazi uniforms but then put a different name on them.
Either give me a first order with a new aesthetic or give me the empire. Don't try and convince me the first order is something new and fresh when it's just the empire with a paint job.
"I am a Jedi, like my father before me."
Well that didn't last long. What a kick in the teeth.
One of the worst feelings I've had watching a film at the cinema was the Last Jedi. Plot all over the pace, several ridiculous scenes that were met with open derision at the screening I was at and actually largely quite boring (despite things happening on screen). Worst of all was the feeling that these films are really detracting from the significance and emotion of the conclusion of the originals. Really disappointing, and I quite liked Force Awakens.
I feel ya man. Do you think the constant action made everything feel one-note?
Would say so yes, having so much stuff happening all the time with little actual consequence definitely detracts from the weight of moments. All I can say is a lot of action happens in the first half of the film, but I was more bored than during any trade dispute in the prequels!
Plot was really cohesive...pacing not so much... characters were way clearer here than in force awakens
Ben Smith that was the point to tear down myths but it's hard to construct disappointment in a text without also disappointing fans I guess / also that being the point doesn't necessarily work as a defence but yeah I like the choices they made with luke
Ben Smith dialogue were about as average as all of star wars / the original movies weren't amazing in terms of dialogue / I can get feeling disappointed I've liked star wars since I was 4 and return of the jedi was the first film I watched but I'm also happy to see this movie do something new / best star wars film since return I'd say / excited for the director's trilogy
I have never felt so disappointed and underwhelmed after seeing this film. I had such high hopes for it. Although I enjoyed the The Force Awakens, it did have its flaws but this film makes it look like a masterpiece. I was perhaps disappointed that JJ Abrams was returning for episode IX but now I am looking forward to him returning.
I’m not a hardcore Star Wars fan...but everything that happened was irrelevant. All the plot points that hinted at developing a character ultimately put them back to where they were before the dramatic moment happened.
Yep, there was very little actual plot or drama in it, just a lot of stuff happening just because they have to fill up two and a half hours of film.
Originality isn't an issue at all. It's fine that it takes it in a new direction. The problem is that the story and character arcs are so incoherent that it actually hasn't taken it anywhere at all. Luke teased the idea of the Gray Jedi (finding true balance between the Light and Dark Side), but it wasn't fully explored, and as a result, Rey's character doesn't develop. Completely dismissing TFA alone is one thing, but TLJ doesn't even know what it wants to do in its own film.
It's wrong for people to slam others for enjoying it, but it's truly worrying that so many are failing to see its flaws as not just a Star Wars episode, but as a film in its own right. It's genuinely as structurally and narratively troubled as Alien: Covenant. No disrespect to Kermode, but what he deems as positives in this film, especially in regards to character arcs, are profoundly unjustified.
My problem with the film was that we got too little of what made it work, namely the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff, and way too much fluff. I simply didn’t give a damn about what was going on with Finn and Poe and Rose compared to the other stuff.
yeah i agree with that. I didnt mind rose as a character that much actually, and think she's getting unfair hatred from some, it's just her and finn's story seemed pointless to the overall plot of the movie, or at least it could have been cut down significantly.
It would have been quicker and more effective, and potentially could have shown more chemistry between finn and rose, if they had something that could disable the tracker in the first place, and they managed to sneak onto snoke's ship and had to work together to try and disable it but got caught before they could manage.
It's an ensemble cast where each character is vital to the narrative. It's not just about 3 characters.
Completely agree. Every time the story shifted focus from Rey/Kylo/Luke to something else I lost interest.
Then I assume you want a 3 person film? Oh dear.
Mist_warrir or maybe I want the other characters and story lines to be written better?
LOL, people are legitimately, unironically alleging that Kermode is being paid off by Disney? And Star Wars fanbois wonder why the world at large views them with contempt?
I honestly can't understand this mindset that the last two Star Wars films are "SJW propaganda".
The characters race/gender has literally ZERO baring on the plot or character development. The mere presence of a black man or a strong female character is not a good enough argument to support this.
Rose is a great example of the SJW propaganda. How did this unatheltic maintenance worker, who had always wanted to meet a hero of the resistance, hold her own against the First Order, belittle Finn, and know how to fly a spaceship by the end of the movie? Cause she's a woman, and she's asian. And it's supposed to be empowering. Well congratulations, you've just demeaned the fact that Luke knew how to fly a ship without any former training in the original trilogy. I could give you 10 more examples of this type of SJW propagand which is so prevalent.
TheRylander1
"The problem with the Asian women is that we are supposed to feel bad for her, knowing how hard it was being Asian"
No we don't. Unless if you can actually point to a plot or character moment which specifically focusses on her ethnicity, then your argument here is useless.
"I also care about the fact that any criticism of a brown person, a woman, or homosexual is seen as racist, sexist, or homophobic. "
No it isn't, I just don't think anyone who does complain about the fact that there's a bit of diversity in the new Star Wars films bring any substantial argument to the table. I've stated why in an earlier comment, your choice as to whether you want to address it or not.
"I least they don't hire A&E Trauma surgeons based on a diversity quota."
Completely irrelevant and not even a remotely reasonable comparison, A&E Trauma is not a form of fictional storytelling.
"Also no men are allowed to be heroic,"
Apart from Luke, who saved the rebels. Or all the men who saved the day in the previous star wars films. Also, there are tons of films released every single year with heroic men out there. I'm sorry the occasional heroic woman in film triggers you.
"Also no men are allowed to be heroic, Finn was about to sacrifice himself to stop the first order breaking in to the base, but rose stops him because they are going to defeat them with love (even though I'm pretty sure that thanks to that act alone the resistance is about 6 people now). This is the SJW cultural Marxism. It is behind sentiments like: "not all Muslims are extremists", "lets put Saudi Arabia in charge of the human rights council because their lack of whiteness means they are superior to white male politicians in the west" "its racists to say we shouldn't let people in to the west from actual war zones, we should let them in and show them love and compassion so that they can stop being terrorists" "the only reason they are terrorist in the first place is because white people keep invading," "we're all the same comrade, so if I'm not a violent bastard when i have access to western society, then no one else will be either." All of that was compressed into the scene where rose proposes saving the galaxy with feminism, rather than destroying the people at your gates who are shooting you, because that would be toxic masculinity. Never let a man do anything, decide anything, or speak unless a woman has pre=approved his actions. Thanks Star Wars."
I don't even know where to being with this dog drool of a paragraph.
Luke literally saves the day by sacrificing himself, Poe takes over as leader of the rebels. As is indicated in that scene when Leia says; "Well what are you looking at me for, follow him!" GENERAL Leia passes the power to him. The fact that you completely ignored this tells me everything I need to know about how objectively you're looking at this. It's pretty clear you went into this film with your mind already made up.
Your comments are about as simplistic and moronic as the people you're targeting in your paragraph. I suggest you learn to grow up.
TheRylander1
You're bringing up two completely unrelated points here.
"what you don't seem to get is that people should be hired based on merit"
Yes of course they should, but if they want to aim for a certain demographic then they are completely entitled to do that as well. I'm pretty sure there are enough Asian actresses out there for them to pick from and find someone who is just as good as a white actress. Why is this such a big deal? I can't remember the last time we had an Asian actress in a major part of a Hollywood blockbuster. I can absolutely guarantee you that Hollywood have done films in which they've said the main character has to be played by a white male.
You've also completely avoided having to explain how Rose's ethnicity has any major impact on either the plot or her character development.
Everything you've just brought up after has absolutely NOTHING to do with gender, it's simply down to sloppy writing. Rey's gender has ZERO impact on the story or her own character development. Ask yourself this question, what would have made Rey's character development any better or believable if she was a man?
TheRylander1
"somanytakennames I obviously did notice the passive aggressive feminist General Lea say "what are you looking at me for, you heard the man". The reason they are looking at her is that the last time he was a man and did something when they were under attack she knocked him out with the power of her mind. Obviously that means that anyone who is trying to follow the chain of command will default to her, fearing any possible retribution. Immediately seeing that as a negative reaction when it is the one you requested is a very passive aggressive move."
She didn't knock him out with the power of her mind, she used a stun gun. I seriously fail to see how you missed that. The reason they look at her for command is because she's a GENERAL!!! Are you are aware of how high up a General is? Not to mention she's essentially a legend in that universe considering all the thing she has done, of course people are going to turn to her. And now, Poe is the leader as reward for his actions and development in the film. So, your initial statement about how men aren't allowed to be heroes or in charge is simply wrong.
"As is going to die on a mystery island but leaving a cryptic map to be found so that you can be angry with anyone that turns up and disturbs your peace and quiet. In real life no one bothers with passive aggressive whiny arseholes, which is why sjw writers never have hits, and then complain that people are just racist/sexist/homohobic. For the record I would have loved Rey to be a replacement character for Luke, but she's just immediately perfect at everything which makes the character one dimensional."
I don't even know what you're trying to say here. You claim to not be sexist or racist yet every single criticism you have with the film is founded on a either character's race or gender. Not to mention crying "SJW" and "feminist" every 3 seconds as though just saying these things somehow strengthens your argument. You're obsessed.
Plot? Character development? Jesus!
Loved it, once you stop trying to impress your notion of what a Star Wars movie should be, you can relax into it and enjoy the movie. I loved how it broadened out the whole scope and for first time I got the impression the rebellion was a galaxy wide struggle.
Did Mark watch the same film that I did? He makes it sound like Citizen Kane, while I sat there thinking “are Disney trolling Star Wars fans with this piece of junk”? It seems that Disney knows that anything to do with Star Wars will make a huge pile of cash, so don’t really care what they release now. The story was weak, the characters boring and everyone I spoke who were leaving the cinema was very disappointed in this film. Goodness knows what the film critics are seeing that they give this turkey great reviews. Honestly I am baffled.
Sauron Merciful I'd say it's its biggest flaw is that the fights are a bit lame. Not awful but say what you want about the prequels but it's no Darth Mall v Kenobi v Jin or Kenobi v Skywalker.
Anything that's heavy on character development will be loved by critics.
Gavin Badcock I think it was the best directed Star Wars film!
I agree 100% with you, ..this is a terrible review.
Gavin Badcock People can't even express their opinions anymore without shitstains like you telling them they're in the wrong. This movie hit the mark so well, especially with how they handled Luke. But you morons just wanted another retread despite saying you wanted something different, despite accusing TFA of being a ripoff. And when you get something different, you lose your shit like a bunch of whiny children.
I clearly saw a different movie. Complete waste of Laura Dern and Del Toro. The whole section devoted to finding the code breaker was a distraction and ultimately pointless.
I guess Batman v Superman is no longer the most divisive movie of the past years.
True. Star Wars fans especially are divided over prequels/sequels...now this will be the new divider.
I've seen it twice and I think Mark needs to watch it again because his review does not match with the film I saw. I'm not saying I hated it but I feel no excitement for the third film and this was a trilogy wasn't it ? Not to mention all the set up story threads from awakens that were ignored or destroyed ?? I hope Disney haven't gotten to you Mark....
Really not impressed by TLJ, not sure why its getting such amazing reviews.
cos it was good
Because it had good character and character arcs. Yes, some scenes didn't work, but I think many people don't like it because the were a lot of indie movies and dramas in there, and not just mindless action adventure
It’s the spaceballs sequel we deserved.
Little to no substance? SO all character development flew over your head? It was all well shown How characters deal with failures and what lessons they learn
^ This! Times 10.
Just saw the film 2 hours ago and it was so stupid for so many reasons i wouldn't know where to start.
+lord aredhel I know where to start: Leia as Mary Poppins.
When both Episodes VII and VIII ended I left and went home and basically forgot about them. When I went to see the original trilogy movies I left absolutely buzzing and that stayed with me for days. Is it because I was only 10 years old when the first one came out and I grew up to adulthood with the sequels and I'm now just a miserable old git, or is it because when the original trilogy came out it was just a great straight forward story with no questions left unanswered and had proper jaw dropping sets and special effects that were part of the experience and not just the usual cgi that deliberately overwhelms movie viewers these day into thinking they've actually been to see a great movie when basically they havent?
Oh, regarding Rogue One, I did leave feeling like I had just watched something akin to the original trilogy but the ending left me feeling it could have been much better.
Am I going mad? I thought it was atrocious. What is he talking about when he says the characters "obey rules"? It's just a rehash of what came before. He slated Justice League (rightly) for being about the threatiest threat to ever threat. That is exactly what this movie is. A series of increasing threats each more threatening than the last. It allows for action set pieces, half of which have NO CONSEQUENCE AT ALL. Seriously, at least half of the "rescue" style missions that are so prevalent in Star Wars movies go nowhere in The Last Jedi. None of the main characters interact in a way that propels the story or gives any closure or intrigue. It is a shoddy plot, a small ship running away from a big ship for three hours, with clunky exposition laid around it. The dialogue was dreadful. Here in Vietnam, there were people walking out of the movie halfway through. I'd say they were fed up with reading the boring dialogue. This is a terrible movie and Mark Kermode should see that. In fact I suggest he does he just knows that slating this movie won't do him any favours.
Attacking Justice League and BvS with Kermodeian glee and giving this Mess a pass makes no sense. All 3 films are in the same 'should have been way better' category.
I used to have respect for Mark but genuinely feel Disney bought all his kids amazing presents for Christmas because his review is objectively full of nonsense.
I thought it was pretty boring. The main plot is basically the slowest chase scene ever. And it goes on forever... and ever. Most of the subplots are a waste of time - Finn's, or contrived - Poe's. Main characters are wasted. It should have been a first act, or maybe a first half. But 2 1/2 hours is a joke for how little there is in it.
>Most of the subplots are a waste of time - Finn's, or contrived - Poe's
Just because something failes doesn't mean it's a waste of time. You judge plots by the end - if they were successful
Do you mean judge a subplot, or the whole plot, by the end (of the subplot or whole movie)? I think each should be taken on its merits. The end was okay - it would've been better as a first act or mid-point though. Think back to the first act of Return of the Jedi. Everyone's in trouble, Luke turns up after 15 minutes and saves everyone, now we can get on with a proper story.
Yes, think back to Empire Strikes back, whole action amounted to nothing, Luke lost a duel and a hand and got a massive blow with new information, Han got into carbonite. All the movie amounted to was "they survived". Same as this movie
Craig Murray glad someone else noticed the whole thing revolves around that slow chase.....you are spot on sir!
Yes, but how many planets did we go to? How many space chases were there? How much Jedi training was there? How much real friends saving each other was there? How much real friends betraying each other was there? How many romances started and broken up were there? All in less time than this plodding movie which has nothing to compare to that.
Totally glad I had the pleasure to watch Disney presents a Disney film, Disney's Star Wars: The Last Jedi, a Disney production.
I think the hate for the film is ridiculous and proves the point that no one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans. The Last Jedi, not only as a Star Wars film but as a film as a whole, is arguably in the top three best Star Wars films. Sure, it's not as complex as Empire and doesn't have some of its emotional intricacies but it represents a continued vision of what Star Wars can be from Empire. The Last Jedi is not only beautifully directed but full of emotional depth and complexity. Some parts don't work well with me but others, such as one particular event near the end of the film, resonate with me deeply. I also like that there was a clear vision behind this film and didn't feel like it was put together by executives like Rogue One was. The use of eyeline matches with Kylo Ren and Rey, for example, felt very German Expressionist and it works excellently. This film, like Empire, is going to be very divisive and it's not a perfect film, it's more like a great film with some "perfect" in it, mainly Kylo Ren's character arc.
Well said!
True, I feel like in comparison, The Force Awakens is a much leaner screenplay. However, what I do like is that The Last Jedi had actually trimmed the fat from The Force Awakens, even if it did end up with some loose skin of its own as a result. People who have seen the film know what I mean.
Josh, I mean this seriously, but did you not notice the massive, gaping plot holes? Didn't the perpetual action bother you? The film I saw is a film full of plot but with almost zero drama. What I saw was a film that very much looked like Star Wars but didn't have any of the heart.
I don't think plot holes inherently make the film bad. Take for example two films, Metropolis and The Dark Knight Rises, two scripts full of holes. These are both very well-acclaimed films. I don't think the holes in The Last Jedi are really that big either, a lot of these are explained by the film. As for the action, I thought I was going to get tired of it and I was surprised by the fact that I wasn't. I actually felt as if the film was suitably character-driven, even when it came to its action sequences. Take for example the scenes with Rey and Kylo Ren, they actually progress the characters, the themes and give them suitable arcs. While I feel the Resistance storyline lacks drama, they're not the main focus of the film, it's the interactions between Rey/Kylo/Luke that really give the film a lot of its dramatic weight. That said, it's always been like this in Star Wars. The rebels are just there to be blown up by the Empire, the Original Trilogy is actually about Luke's journey and his emotional progression.
I feel like a lot of people are saying this just to be dicks to people who didnt like what they liked. If you liked this film thats fine but dont go around saying everyone who hated it is a crying fanboy who wants their 80s nostalgia back. Im a millenial who didnt grow up with star wars and enjoyed TFA immensly and kinda ended up hating this movie. The friends i went to see it with liked it tho. People are complicated. Dont assume you know exactly why "everyone" hates this film. I might as easily say your a blinded paid off disney lover who likes anything with lightsabers, but that isnt true is it? I would just be an asshole for saying that. So please dont use this film as an excuse to hate on an ingroup you never felt part of.
One of the best star wars movies, funny to see all the ultra fanboys who hated Tfa for being too similar now hate tlj for taking too many risks
by taking risks, do u mean massive plot holes and terrible character utilisation and development?
Nobody, at all, is critcising it for taking risks. You can't just ignore all the reasons people disliked it, make up your own ones to replace that, and then rail against those. That's not how the world works.
I really, really liked TFA. I didn't like TLJ much at all, at least the early parts. The first hour is badly edited, full of misplaced and misfiring humour, has plot holes galore and has possibly the most laughable moment of the entire Star Wars canon (you know the bit I mean) within it. After that it picks up. A lot. But the first hour is inexcusably bad.
ARE YOU DUMB AF!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?
I’m a fanboy, saw my first Star Wars film when I was 4, I *loved* TFA, and this was the most disappointed I have ever been in a Star Wars film. Taking risks should not be commended on the mere merit of risk-taking itself, when you take a risk it either pays of or fails horribly, and *everything* failed horribly for me in this. Gutted.
And here they come to prove your point. Hats off to you, Sir!
Was very lukewarm on Force Awakens, which grew into an active dislike of it when I thought it through. Really enjoyed The Last Jedi, perhaps particularly because it was not just a remix of previous Star Wars tropes and motifs - it was a bit weird and a bit unexpected, which I will take any do over some rigid adherence to the narrow outlook of Star Wars diehards.
It was good. I liked it. 8.5/10.
Actually felt like the next chapter in Star Wars (unlike the deliberately crowd-pleasing Force Awakens).
Didn't go the way I thought it was going to go (which is good).
Existing characters have actually grown, instead of just staying the same (though some who take the original trilogy a little too seriously may not like who they've grown into, life + time = change).
And I especially like how it crushed all notions of "chosen ones", lineage, heritage, etc. Choosing instead to look forward, rather than back and essentially cleaned the slate for Episode IX.
It's a genuinely good movie, and I'm really disappointed with the reception it's getting, the star wars fanbase behaves like religious culture often and they're being really close minded, and I think the risks and twist they took with this movie has really upset them, they don't want to be surprised and were expecting some wholesome fan service.
Sure it surprises you but suprises mean nothing when the more you think about the movie the less sense it makes. Not to mention it clashes with established lore and character developement. Kermode here calling the character arcs "coherent" is nuts, the exact opposite happens, characters and plot suffer in coherence so the messages can come across.
Sidarth, would you care to share your opinion on The Rise of Skywalker?
Oh come on Mark, you're trying way too hard here! Certainly The Last Jedi is entertaining enough, the direction, the visuals, the performances are great and there are nuggets of really good cinema in there but the story, the ideas that it fails to exploit, the questions it doesn't answer, plot threads from TFA it just drops, the characters that it nonchalantly dispenses with, the black hole in the 2nd act (sojourn to planet Las Vagas, prequal stylee anyone?)... As a review I watched earlier suggests, the entire franchise has now spent 2 films simply recreating the status quo of the original trilogy; Rebels (and they even start referring to themselves as such in the film) verses The Empire...again. It's a very frustrating film for me, which squanders a lot of the opportunities it had. The choices it does make aren't terrible, but it could have been much better. Unfortunately at this point it leaves me unenthused for the final part of the latest trilogy. I think a second viewing is needed to firm up my thoughts but at the moment, with regret, I'm largely in disappointed territory.
Very true points, my man. I don't know if I'm even up for a second viewing...a good stand-alone flick it might be, but a terrible addition to the Star Wars saga. Quite insulting, too, since the tone of the film seemed to be self-deprecating and tongue-in-cheek, which isn't Star Wars at all. Star Wars does take itself seriously and this movie did not.
I saw the last Jedi last night (no spoilers) and it basically has too much comedy, no good villains, bad character decisions, no answers from TFA, and it's not dark at all, in fact more villains die than heroes despite the fact that heroes should've died multiple times. It's all just explosions and mindless action without any mythology. See the movie for yourselves and be disappointed
Cam Rhys basically my thoughts, mix in our screening, some loved it and lol, some, like me were wtf
Absolutely right ! This was total garbage, it was like a book with pages missing and the continual comedy was just out of place. Very disappointed in a movie that has lost its roots and originality, too many scenes were reminiscent of other movies and the acting at times was dreadful.
Cam Rhys this right here👌🏼👏🏼
It was awful!
Cam Rhys exactly
Will Carrie Poppins get a spin-off?
Here we go....So you have jumped on that band wagon I see. I have my own opinion on that scene. It was beautiful. Finally seeing something we always knew about used in one of the films and made great use of her character..BUT people who live online have to join the hate trends and start making comments like that so they can fit in at the next reddiit meet up
Jonathan Bonanno shhhhh
Ethan John and next, when James Bond can cast spells you’ll be yelling at me for being so wedded to the non-magician James Bond and unable to deal with change.
GlideSlidey strong with the force? When did she ever show that she was “strong” with the force? But let’s assume you’re correct, that she is. Since when can anyone, including Jedi Masters, survive in space? But fine! Let’s assume that Jedis (including PL here for some reason) can survive space. BUT if you want me to go along with this, THEN MAKE PL AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE REST OF THE MOVIE. Don’t make us suspend our disbelief so that PL Can them become a bit player for the rest of the movie! This film continually makes demands on the audience and then refuses to pay it off. I’ll go with you on your silly journey to Canto Bight, but the payoff is....what? Finn and Rose actually jeopardizing the escape? So it would have actually been better if they died on Canto? Rian can suck it.
In ROTJ we found out she has the Force. It's not inconceivable that she developed strong skills in the intervening years, it was just implemented very badly in TLJ. And it's a shame that it's led some so-called fans to then mock an iconic original character.
And then they effed it all up in Rise of Skywalker in order to pander to a bunch of cry-baby 90's-born fan boys.
I'm surprised that you didn't put "cis gendered" and "white" in there along with your insult. I'm also interested who you think they should have "pandered to" if not the base audience of the movies?
I'm not a fan of this film. Parts of it were too changed from what went before, scenes weren't needed and I don't like that humor which is creeping into every Disney owned property, it worked for Pirates of the Caribbean then Iron man and Avengers and now it has to be in everything! The story points I was looking forward to being answered were glossed over or thrown away too; which I suppose in one respect some people may like that kind of bold statement the film makes. But when something so serialised ignores tantalising plot points the community of fans has been looking forward to being answered, to me its just thrown away the opportunity to tie their characters in a greater way to the preexisting lore. I felt less for those characters as a consequence. And the first thing I said about the film to another person was one not about the story or characters main arc (which can't be a good thing) and instead about a possible panning meeting whereby I felt that someone had to be told to say "its salt" so that we didn't think it was Hoth.......
Rian johnson delivered with this one. So many terrific moments. Ppl hate this because of the new concepts. Its too different for them. Weird because ppl hated the force awakens because it felt to similar
Tommy Townsend people love to hate Star Wars it's just what they do... 😢
What new concepts are you talking about?
grantmitchel the way the force is used
I keep hearing this argument and I can't agree. I liked TFA. This however was just so underwhelming. Not because it was different, it was just poor, poor story telling
Tommy Townsend I didn't like it because of genuine issues actually. Like Rose and Finn's completely superfluous story which led to nothing really and their awful forced cringeworthy kiss at the end that came out of absolutely no chemistry.
Not often I 100% disagree with Mark but I hated The Last Jedi. The plot was predictable and felt forced, the humour, was mixed at best and too often took away what should have been tension in a scene. The First Order came over as morons and the Rebels not much, if at all better. The characters motivations were silly and often made no sense much of the time. I didn't find the fight scene to be particularly good and at one point I was thinking, this is more of an attempt for Disney to sell toys than to make a good movie (Made worse when I came out of the cinema to see a Disney store selling all the Star Wars merchandise). The film was too long and the scene with the Falcon going though the cave, just seemed to be in there to please fanboys.
I can't think of a redeeming feature of the film and I haven't been this disappointed since The Phantom Menace.
You can say whatever you want but...predictable?! :O After that comment It's clear you cannot satisfy a star wars fan.
It was very predictable, pretty much every plot thread is announced before hand and it follows every Star Wars trope imaginable. As for satisfying other Star Wars fans, it isn't for me to to satisfy anyone but I can say the film didn't Satisfy me and I have been a Star Wars fan since 1978.
Complete and utter tosh you are talking. It has nothing to do with being a Star Wars fan and everything to do with being a film fan and not accepting over long films, with stupid writing. It is about having standards and as soon as someone says something negative is said people get butt hurt. The same thing happened with Blade Runner 2049, which the critics swooned over but was slow and over long.
This film was barely better than a Transformers film.
@ezwar99 I'm a Star Wars fan who liked TFA and disliked The Last Jedi. I disliked it not because it tried new things (I don't think it did), but because of plot holes, dull side plots, and a cliched approach to killing off important characters (that it is repeating from TFA). How do you explain that huh? Doesn't fit into your sweeping generalisation of everybody who disagrees with you, does it?
100% agree with you. NOT Mark. Mark is WAYYYYY OFF on this one.
I love seeing people become angry when someone with a interesting and conflicting opinion upsets them!
Not only did I love it but it's the only Star Wars film that I enjoyed enough to really want to see a second time. I think what I loved about it is what hardcore Star Wars fans hated about it - that it's different.
According to Kermode, The Last Jedi has brought balance to the Force. Not entirely convinced myself though.
It makes it a lot easier to like this film if you don’t like Star Wars.
Normally I agree with Mark Kermode's reviews (even down to Warcraft), but in this instance I reckon he's got it mostly wrong. That said, I think it's because Mark just isn't into Star Wars as much as being a movie reviewer.
He likes it for the resons which I do, but misses the points whch make it bad. Those resons are, though not limited to the following:
- It is never explained how Snoke rose to power or who he was, nor is it explained just how under-prepared the galaxy was to deal with the threat of the resurgent Empire/First Order.
- Many of the character deaths felt cheap i.e Snoke & Luke.
- What was that rubbish about the Imperial ships not being able to chase down the resistance fleet? Just jump ahead of them and cut them off! Also, if Light speed ramming is such a powerful tool in anyone's arsenal and X-Wing fighters can achieve light speed, why has nobody ever thought to strip a few of them down & load them with ordnance, have them be piloted by droids and simply wreck face?
- What happened to B-Wing bombers? Those new ones have all the manouverability of my dead grandmother!
- How did Rey escape Snoke's ship?
- How did Finn and Rose get back into the bunker? Also, if Rose was there to ram Finn off course and save him, why couldn't she have just shot the battering ram thingie?
Al in all, I left the cinema feeling a deep sense of dissatisfaction. It wasn't a terrible film and it had its moments, but it felt disjointed and unfulfilling.
Most of Marks 'praise' seems to be for things that all films should have to be coherent.
Not a lot of films have that though
*Should have* yes
Not a lot of *block-blusters* ;) I think that's my problem with Marks critique sometimes - in trying not to appear snobbish perhaps - he softens he criteria for big movies.
This is particularly evident with star wars,due to the terrible prequels... All they have to do to be good, is to be decent.
Couldnt believe when Lando turned up with Vitiligo
I was really surprised at how much it subverts expectations and takes risks.
It's definitely the most different Star Wars movie we've ever had,
It's much more of a character focused piece compared to recent films.
Why did holdo not tell poe about "the plan"?
it was appalling, but perhaps that's because i'm invested in star wars, in isolation its ok, in cannon its a shambles.
Great Job Kermode. Keep up the good work!
The Finn and Rose storyline was the only thing that halted the story. We do not need to hear a story about animal cruelty in a Star Wars movie. We know enough about it in real life, so why put it in a film series where we want to escape the world. Besides that displaced storyline, I loved it. Great character arcs, and the story was fairly different. You can say what you want, but it is hard to find originality in the eighth installment of a film series.
Mitch Powers Yeah, we do.
Tell me more about the Finn, Poe, Snoke, etc character arcs... Finn and Poe didn't change despite all that happened to them (and even Finn having it revealed to him that their rebellion makes the rich richer). Snoke had no development at all.
I really hope there will be more of a explanation about Snoke in the third film. I hope what we saw in this isn't gonna be it.
Rose is there to sell toys and tickets in China and SEA. It was as if a Big Bang Theory character entered Star Wars. I'm a genius engineer but I also talk like a crazy person! I'm so edgy! Like Me!
I understand your disappointment with the movie, I am still 50/50. But to say that Finn and Poe didn't have ANY arc or development in this movie is not correct, in my view. Finn starts this movie wanting to 'run away' (or better wanting to help Rey, which is also consistent with his character) and ends the movie trying to help the rebellion by sacrificing himself (even tho he does not succeed). Poe starts the movie being a hot headed, gung-ho pilot and ends the movie leading a retreat. Not the greatest arcs, but arcs nonetheless. Snoke's arc.....got cut in half! Many missed opportunities, yes, but still I have enjoyed enough to wanted to see it again. Also I kinda liked what I thought was one of the main theme of the movie.....that failure happens and you have to learn from it. Everybody seems to fail in this movie, one way or the other. And I really like the end. Also the scene between Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher......in retrospective was a real touching scene
I didn’t understand Mark’s take until 7:39. Now it all becomes clear.
I enjoyed the film... but I was just so disappointed we didn't get any answers. We just got Snoke dead, nothing about his background or intentions, complete none threat; where were the Knights of Ren? Were they Snoke's bodyguards? Wasted opportunity there. How exactly did Snoke turn Ben to the dark side? Who are Rey's parents? No one... oh. Ok then. That's anticlimactic. The rebel fleet dropped from light speed into "the middle of nowhere", which after less than 18 hours of standard real-space drive happens to put them NEXT TO an old Rebel base. That was convenient. Why didn't they have the ship ram the Supremacy as their smaller ships escaped in the first place? If I knew that was an option I would have set the ship to do that as we ALL escaped. Not throw it in there randomly. Why has no ship ever done this before in Star Wars? If every ship was in fact a missile of such unbridled power why build Death Stars? Why not just ram a city with hollowed out ships fitted with nothing but a hyperspace drive? Same effect apparently and ubiquitous technology. Also, now there's cloaking tech in Star Wars, but it doesn't make the ships invisible like in Star Trek... yet no one on the Supremacy or accompanying Star Destroyers could see the escaping ships through their windows, their giant, giant windows. The casino planet was completely superfluous. They went and found a guy to help them, he betrays them, the end. The last rebel ship hitting the Supremacy at light speed made that entire plot arc meaningless.
So no answers. Nothing. Things blew up and laser swords. I really wanted to see Luke wreck shop, I mean, I really wanted to see him at the height of his power. I suppose in a way we did, but it felt... meh.
Maybe after repeat viewings I will feel more comfortable with this film, but I wanted a dark exploration of Ren and Snoke, I wanted to feel genuine terror at what they could accomplish and I wanted to know the reasons and origin for this hatred. Had Snoke been orchestrating the growth of the Empire from afar? Was he Darth Sidious? Instead we got bland baddie who dies when he's having an arrogant rant about being the best. Star Wars has such a rich and vibrant lore and this film capitalized on none of it.
A damn fine review
This is some intelligent and well-reasoned analysis right here, unlike some of the hyper-critical stuff I've been reading from certain fans. I get that everyone has an opinion, and truly I think Star Wars fans are some of the most sophisticated viewers when it comes to filmmaking techniques, story construction, character development, etc. But I think this has also become the fandom's curse, because any single minute aspect of the movie that diverges from their personal expectation of what a Star Wars movie should be somehow becomes a crippling flaw that ruins the movie in their minds. I will point them to this review for a more level-headed opinion of the film lol :)
few times i agree with mark... and like he, i've never been a SW fan growing up...and just been a fan since Force Awakens.
fair...
but lemme respond to "luke risks everything multiple times trying to save his father from the dark side believing there was still good in him, vader had killed children cutting them to bits btw,but luke was still trying to save him. yet luke was willing if for a moment, to kill his sleeping nephew who had not done anything at that moment. "
i think the reason he went out his way to bring back his dad to the good side was because he just found out he has a dad..and that he WAS still young and up and coming jedi with things to prove... sure, he's good, but also naive and just a wide-eyed rookie with incredible powers...of course he's gonna try and save his dad's lost soul...
but, with Ky- Ben...it's been 30 years..and none of us actually know what's happened to Luke, prior to him teaching his young jedi-to-be's... THAT could be a movie of itself..maybe starring Sebastian Stan as a post-OG trilogy & pre-NEW trilogy...
now, with Ben, that's he's nephew..and i think he's trying to AVOID all the deaths and chaos Ben's GOING TO cause..and he does admit that that was a fleeting moment of weakness (maybe due to his age as a human AND a descendant of Darth Vader). what i'm gettin' is Ben's waaaayyy darker and more of a lost cause than Anakin ever was.
with his dad..all the bad deeds were in the past, which he couldn't've changed..and the present ones..that's what Luke was trying to put an end to by taking him back to the good side.
Kermode doesn’t often get it wrong but he has with this. Tone and vibe of the film was all wrong and Jonson saying he had a clean slate sums it up. He takes the hard work that was done in TFA and throws it out the airlock (like Leia).
So hold up. You're saying that this man, who's career it is to watch and reviews movies, is "wrong" about why he enjoys a film. And the one who is passing this judgement is you, mister youtube commenter.
Okay
Jeremy Sutherland yeah
Steven Williams, throws it over his shoulder like a light saber
Did Mark watch the right film?
Even if the rest of the film were particularly good the casino adventure drags the whole thing down like heavy wet washing on a clothes line - any sense of brio is lost in the connected plots and the many missteps including the heavy footed 'humour' are magnified. It's one ruthless piece of editing they'll regret never doing.
Unfortunately Mark talks a lot about character and character development but doesn't give a single tangible example as to which characters develop and how. Here are some brief concerns I have with the film:
-No explanation as to the aftermath of episode 6, the rise of "The first order" and "The Resistance".
-In turn this makes Snoke an incredibly weak villain with a serious lack of background and substance. Who is he? Where's he come from? What does he want to do?
-Rey doesn't have a personality. Came from a desert planet with no family, ok that's fine, but doesn't seem to face any serious challenges or hardship (due to the fact she can already do everything) so there's no conflict spurring her to grow and change.
Mark you must be talking about a different movie. This is a review for The Last Jedi right?
Yep, and he liked a movie you clearly didn't, get off your high horse and stop being so triggered.
It's rare for me to disagree with Kermode this much. I can understand fanboys like Schmoes, Jahns, Stuckman etc giving positive reviews, but a more serious critic like Kermode giving this movie, with the elongated bogged down tedious plot (albeit punctuated with good moments) a positive review...I'm just gobsmacked. It's a poorly constructed film from a pacing, editing and narrative point of view. Calling it "subversive" doesn't mean that it works.
Not being a hardcore Star Wars fan either, I completely agree with everything said in this review, though I still preferred Rogue One out of the all the recent ones.
cineXplorers I really liked Rogue One the first time and even the second time but the third time I watched it the flaws (Which I knew existed) became so amplified, like the entire movie is filled with Video Game time filler. You have to do this, now you have to find this lever to open this gate, now you have to find this object and then do that and now you have to do find an exit and now this and now that. In the third act especially, there's just so much of this and boring exposition and tech talk that I finally notice that all of this was probably caused by the reshoots, they must've cut a big plot beat from the movie and then to readd some of the time back they must've added all this filler. I still really like the movie, but I don't think I'll want to watch to for a good year or two, I wanna forget about these problems that I noticed the third time around.
I agree with Kermode as well on the last Jedi. However I didn’t connect with Rogue One at all. I thought it followed generic beats of a war film and the characters bored me.
I really enjoyed Rogue One, I thought it did something different with Star Wars. It was darker and edgier than all the other ones and it felt like the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of the Star Wars universe which I thought was quite interesting.
Unfortunately Rogue One seems have been the exception rather than the rule. it was my 2nd favourite next to Empire strikes back.
People who actually care about cinema as an art seem to love this movie, but pedantic nerds who are obsessed with a children's media franchise and want their wish-fulfilment fantasies played out on screen hate it. Who should I trust?
Hahaha, spot on! "This isn't going how I expected it to go, good guys do things that don't work, heroes are fallible. They didn't make it like I wanted in my head.. I'M SO ANGRY"
People that understand and care about films
The nerds.
tablespite27 I’m a nit-picking nerd and I loved this film
I guess I'm more Kubrick/ Tarkovsky side of the fence than Michael Bay/ Zack Snyder. I thought the whole Force stuff with Luke, Rey and Kylo Ren is great. It seems to be that which is annoying those folks who apply video game logic to Star Wars. Kermode hinted that the subplots had issues but for me they were really weak.
I appreciate you want the new Star Wars movies to work Mark but frankly it was an utter disappointment - I left the cinema feeling of the entire star wars legacy - "What a waste"
Fair enough, he's towing the Disney line.
Not true, but thank you for making me feel like a minority by calling me "You people", it's a novel feeling. I'm disappointed because the entire movie is a cynical killing off of every plot line and every historical character to suit the political agenda of a handful of rich out of touch Americans living on sugar pedestals where no-one says no to them, no-one ever criticises them and their bubble keeps on just floating along. Their bubbles burst now though, biggest box office downswing of any Star Wars film of all time, guess I'm not the minority you think I am. ;)
Deflated and disappointed with this movie the bad left more of an impression on me than a couple of great moments. I worry Disney is going to have us tired of a galaxy far far away In a few years.
nah
Star Wars: the comedy
Just don't watch anymore...simple...but I guess you will just botch about everyone..
I most often agree with what Mr. Kermode says, but in this I think he is completely and utterly wrong. The fact is that as much as character exploration and arcs are important, they only have relevance in the context of the whole story, what the film is actually doing, trying to achieve. This is the second chapter in a trilogy of sequels and in that, has boundaries in what it can and can't do, which if broken, detach it from the progression of a trilogy; and in this case from a (so far) nine (going to be twelve) chapter saga. The Empire Strikes Back is a shining beacon of sequel story telling - one of the greatest cinematic sequels ever written. Sticking to a few simple and strong plot points, remaining faithful to everything established in a New hope and then adding (again) a few strong new plot points, with an excellent 'didn't see that coming' right at the end. What is even more remarkable is that Empire follows a film that is pretty much self-contained (Lucas didn't know if he would ever be able to make ch's 5 and 6, Star Wars may well have been a flop); the good guys fight the bad guys, they win. The end. In Empire we see that the characters are given room to breathe and expand, because the bloody script is so well written (Thanks to Krasden, who helped with The Force Awakens, which is why that is such a fun film to watch and also a homage to a New hope); and since the central plot points are few and strong there is enough time and space to allow that to happen, naturally as well, as the humor in the film comes from performance and delivery, not from badly written and ill timed, over-saturated and failed attempts from a writer who clearly cannot write comedy and doesn't understand comical timing. The writing in 'The Last Jedi' results in quite possibly the most incompetent and confused mess of a sequel that I think I have quite possibly ever seen. It ignores almost everything from not only the foundation of 'The Force Awakens', but of the whole Star Wars cannon, breaking established mythos at the drop of a hat, ignoring the unanswered questions everyone has been baited with to go and see the sequel. The script jumps from one random plot point to another, from the boring to the outright completely ludicrous (Leia turns into Supergirl?! When the F did this become the DC Universe?) and gives scarcely any time for any of the characters to have room to breathe, constrained as they are by the needless and failed attempt to try and 'shock' the audience (ALL the time). It completely disrespects established characters, Ackbar just goes out in a literal puff of smoke; a Casino is introduced but no sign of Calrisian; and quite literally the fading out (the erasing) of Luke Skywalker in the most mythos breaking (he just wills himself into the force? 'That's not how the Force works!') and anti-climatic way that could have been thought of for the central character of the whole saga. Strong plot twists like in Empire's ending are not only rare; but need to be built upon a solid foundation. The script decides that it doesn't need the foundation and immediately starts sinking into the dirt from its own weight. A sequel in a 40 year in-the-making franchise that decides it wants to be its own entity and not only that, but actually be the second and third installments in the new trilogy by killing off the main protagonist (Who is the most over the top and ludicrously powerful force user ('They' ve gone to plaid!' - Spaceballs (Brooks, M)) in Star Wars saga history; and then fumbling about trying to recover with some lame hair-brained idea that Kylo-Ren, about five seconds after he has turned to the light (saving Rey - an unselfish act), changes his mind and suddenly wants to be Snoke, after just killing him! It is just a complete mess. A script that is trying to be too clever for its own good, full of self-indulgence and proving to actually be a huge f.u. to all those who are deeply passionate about the franchise and the giants that wrote, directed and created it. Rian Johnson maybe able to direct, but one things for sure he CANNOT write.
" and then fumbling about trying to recover with some lame hair-brained idea that Kylo-Ren, about five seconds after he has turned to the light (saving Rey - an unselfish act), changes his mind and suddenly wants to be Snoke, after just killing him!" You have that scene completely wrong - "kill your past". He didn't 'turn to the light' (how did you seriously even extrapolate that?!), he killed Snoke so he could have a fresh start, free from the shackles of his rule, much in the same way he killed Hans. It even alligns with Anakin's arc, where he felt he was ready to be a Jedi much earlier than he actually was. Intense ambition and inner conflict. The 'turning to the light' part was a complete red herring, which has gone completely over your head, even after you saw what happened after it.
It doesn't align with Anakin at all! Anakin doesn't kill Palaptine to become Palpatine - he does it to save his son. The way that scene is portrayed it seems that Kylo is killing snoke to save Rey. Why save Rey, if he was going to kill Snoke and then become the leader anyway? It didn't go over my head, its just a sh** script. There is no hint in the first episode that Kylo is 'trapped' by Snoke, he is his faithful apprentice , as Anakin was with Palpatine. Anyway, you take what ever you want from it. I disagree.
I don't agree with Mark on this, but I respect his opinions. When I came out the cinema at midnight, the audiances reaction to this movie reminded me of when I saw Suicide Squad. People were looking around trying to gauge each others reaction to what they had just seen. It was an okay movie, solid, but not great. I felt it dragged in the middle, and was bit all over the place. The movie looked great, but I couldn't see the point in alot of the character arcs that Mark is talking about. Star Wars works best when we care for the central characters. I couldn't really care for the new characters and their back stories didn't really matter to me, and this I felt is why the movie dragged. They tried to shoehorn in soo much that it all got convoluted. 6/10 for me.
I left the cinema thinking I'd watched a Marvel film. Can't say I was a huge fan of the shoehorned jokes and weird plot twists. (Not to mention Leia's daft Mary Poppins floating through space scene).
theawecabinet she looked like Mary Poppins when she was flyin. Ain't that deep pal
Yep it was totally in the Marvel template. Star Wars deserves better.
She looked like Mary Poppins when she was 'force floating' through space. It looked ridiculous, not to mention how stupid of an idea it is generally. Nothing to do with feminism.
trimrz1 the floating scene was worse than anything in the much maligned prequels, truly shocking... I can forgive space sounds, space wind and even x wings doing handbrake turns but not this, not that!
I must have misinterpreted that part as I assumed that it was all in a dream that Leia was having whilst she was in a brief coma.
The difficult thing with Star Wars is it appears to be an epic landscape but there is zero depth of content.
If you go "off piste" then some hardcore fans will hate you instantly. If you stay safe other hardcore fans will hate you instantly.
I enjoyed the film but it was about 45 minutes too long. Idve lost the entire casino storyline and replaced it with further exploration of what happened with Luke and Kylo Ren.
I think it would have been interesting to have taken it down the Rey and Ren team up idea.
Hugely disappointing movie don’t get why everyone is gushing about it not going to bother with the next instalment
two years later, Rick Deckard queuing up for midnight screening of episode 9 (Y)
The Last Jedi is the most egregious example of 'Do as I say, not as I do'. I appreciate the 'let the past die' sentiment, but having it smugly hammered home while not taking the opportunity in the selfsame film to tell a story that isn't just 'Jedi vs Sith, Empire vs Rebels' leaves a very sour taste.
I saw a midnight screening with my wife and she was yawning by the end. It was too long, the middle section dragged, the casino section was contrived and trivial, and much of the story simply continued the “Star Wars greatest hits” plot recycling that plagued the previous film. Having said that I enjoyed some of the humour, it looked great, and overall it was still fairly enjoyable - but I won’t be rushing out to see it again soon.
Wow, can’t believe Kermode took the Disney money.
I guess as Kermode is not generally a star wars fan explains why he is so positive about this film, it works fine as a self contained film, it doesn't make sense as part of the saga. His point that all the characters actions are grounded in their characters is one I strongly disagree with. Luke is unrecognisable from the person he was in the original trilogy, the one who would try to rescue his friends, the one who risked everything on his belief vader could be redeemed. Now he is the person who considered his nephew too far gone that he would kill him in his sleep, and then would abandon his friends and family, refuse to come back even when they were in danger. I am not opposed to that character arc, but we really need to have been shown exactly what the stakes were, what he was so afraid of that he would go so far against his established character. I think thats why so many fans are really down on this film, it ruins his story and character without much reason
Not to mention how this film also pays no respect to the PREVIOUS one that literally took place just before 8, what with hints to Rey being of a significant origin, Luke having a map to find him, the Knights of Ren, the Republic and the First Order's influence in the galaxy...it totally ignored that and created new factors out of thin air.
He only momentarily considered killing Ben, which fits with his repeated struggles with the dark side in the OT.
As stated in the film, he left for entirely selfless reasons: he felt he'd failed Leia and Han and Ben.
I agree with James. SO called fans are not reading into Luke's actions enough.
I think for such a drastic character development the audience shouldn't have to read things in, they should be shown the character development, not just a few lines of exposition and a flashback. I get these films aren't about Luke anymore, but if they either these films should have given Luke's character enough space to develop his character in this way, or they should have left his story alone.
A lot of people hated Empire when it first came out, but now it is regarded as one of the best Star Wars films ever. The division of this film makes it seem like it could go a similar route. Personally, I loved it.
Love Kermode but he’s absolutely winging this review. The amount of empty phrases he’s throwing around: “it’s a film full of huge explosions in space and little explosions in people’s souls” ....... um, what?
WTF? I thought this guy was good at reviewing films, I'm not a Star Wars fanboy by any margin (I own hundreds of movies but have never bought Star Wars anything), so I went into this just hoping for a good film and I was completely let down.
He literally says, "the way in which characters develop and do things obey rules that are built into their characters", that is such a horseshit statement I don't even know where to begin. Luke Skywalker was a complete wuss in The Last Jedi, he never had any sort of arc either. If they wanted him to be bitter that is fine, I kinda liked that...but then why did he even bother showing up at the end? His arc never changed during the entire film, he just all of a sudden decided to use a Hololuke (copyright Duke Nukem 3d) when he could have just shown up himself. I feel like the entire point of this film was to kill off everything from the old series, mainly the old cast so they didn't have to deal with them anymore and they can turn Star Wars into whatever Disney toy fantasy they want.
*THE REVIEW WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR*
Mark is on the money with this one.
Has BBC been purchased by Disney?
No, but they are rapidly turning into The Guardian newspaper on screen.
After agreeing with his Blade Runner 2049 gushings, I'm really surprised by his take on this missed opportunity of a film.
I loved it, there were a couple of bits I didn’t like but on the whole i enjoyed it
i knew from looking at the dislikes that he must have liked it, seeing as the childish people that hate this film can't help but go everywhere to dislike this film.
i have watched it twice, and the bits i didn't like were nowhere near as bad as i remember.
i hate the leia poppins bit, i hate rose, i hate the casino bit, and i cannot fathom how lasers arch in space, seeing as light only travels in straight lines. the comedy bits weren't as bad as i remember when i saw it in the cinema.
Kermode gets it wrong on star wars again.
Stephen Heppell Wah wah! His opinion on TLJ doesn't align to mine!!!
"gets it wrong"
If you believe that a film can be OBJECTIVELY bad, I honestly don't know why you'd bother watching a review.
There are lots of female characters showing the dude bro men how it should be done. I'm surprised this isn't film of the year from Mark! I can only assume this is why he suddenly 'gets' Star Wars...it's basically the same thing as before! Rose is basically assumed for the Asian market how Jar Jar was for children.
So if Rose is there for the Asian market is Rey there for the white market and Finn there for the black market?
limecat1986 sure sounds about right. Rose was a token character. The movie and overall story could pretty much exist without her. Same goes for Finn. It's a bit like adverts, smattering of Caucasians, someone of Afro Carribbean descent and usually a SEAsian female. Marketing 101. I was in Singapore recently and there were many 'Rose Ticos' young and old at a star wars thing so it's clearly smart by Disney to sell costumes, toys etc. The films are going to make money regardless.
Characters get developed?
I can't think of one character whose outlook is substantially changed during the runtime of the film.
Anyone willing to help me out?
Also, it *isn't* a blank slate.
Rian Johnson didn't treat the Luke Skywalker character with nearly enough care or reverence. It felt more like a watching a wrestler turning 'heel', or a soap character whose motives completely change when a new writer is employed.
As Redlettermedia said "Did he even watch Star wars?"
I must say that Luke Skywalker, and Kylo Ren's character development, didn't work for me. More showing and less telling of Skywalkers failings as a teacher and Kylo Ren's relationship with his parents, would have been good. The glimpses are enough that you can make it out, but without really understanding quite how it got so bad. There's a hollowness to this movie, and it feels sort of like there was a race to kill off the central characters from the original movies.
Normally agree with Mark but this was dire, it was Battle Beyond the stars but with a bigger budget.
Battle beyond the stars was way better
What you're simply not mentioning is two things.. 1. This isn't really a star wars film and 2. That's not how the force works
Wow, what a fantastic film Mark Kermode saw. Can anyone tell me which film he saw, as I had the misfortune of watching that pile of dribble, The Last Jedi. The film that single handed shows what a fantastic story teller and director George Lucas actually is.
Yeah that Phantom Menace was story telling at it's finest...
Be aware everybody, SW fanboy here, avoid at all costs. It's interesting, that everyone who isn't that much into SW is loving this, and the only hate is coming from the "hardcore" minority, which doesn't like that Luke isn't what they thought it would be etc. Kinda sad honestly, incredible movie.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Rian Johnson The Foolish? I thought not. It's not a story Disney would tell you.
I was a bit disappointed coming out, but the more I thought about it afterwards, the better a film I realise it is.
Now I can't wait to see it again to see how everything fits in the wider story. There's a lot of intentional misdirects and subversions of your expectations, and it's only once you get over the shock of the unexpected that you see what Rian Johnson was going for.
While _The Force Awakens_ plays like a greatest hits of the original trilogy, _The Last Jedi_ plays like a meta-commentary on, and reevaluation of , the themes of the whole (canon) Star Wars mythos.
THANK YOU! Completely agree. I felt the same way as you the first time I walked out of it, but the second viewing was much better because of that. I would love to discuss more of your thoughts on it!
Aw, hit a nerve?
the problem with this film is star wars fans went into it after spending a year+ coming up with theories on what they wanted or expected to happen but this film threw a blindside to those fans and it caught them out and they hate it cause what happened wasnt what they wanted, i was the same.
but seeing it a 2nd time after having all those theories dismissed let me enjoy the film for what it is.