The Carlo G manuscript - A precious window to the past
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- Опубліковано 12 гру 2021
- For the footnotes and other extra information see the following link:
www.earlymusicsources.com/you...
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Created by Elam Rotem, December 2021.
Performances in the episode are taken from: Profeti della Quinta / The Carlo G Manuscript (Glossa, May 2017) [UA-cam] (Singing: Perrine Devillers & Doron Schleifer; Violin: Plamena Nikitassova; Theorbo: Ori Hamelin; Organ: Elam Rotem)
Special thanks to Jacob Lawrence, Doron Schleifer, Manuel Maio, Filipa Meneses, and Anne Smith.
www.earlymusicsources.com
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*Sublime excerpt of music expertly performed*
Elam Rotem: "Not bad."
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I hope the haughty owner of the manuscript hears this brilliant presentation and is humbled.
A new EMS video: My Christmas has come early this year!
This brilliant episode feels like an introduction - I'd like to hear more, and I'm sure many others as well! Please, make another episode about this fascinating subject!
Agreed!!!
I finally found that part of UA-cam’s that not full of scammers. What youtube was ment to be. Great channel!!! ❤
Thank you! What a find! I'd pay 60 euros for that in a heartbeat!
I hate when that happens that some random person buys an antique and takes out of the actual people who might learn and study the subject just to bury it on some dark collection nobody knows. Thanks for the vid and explanation of the features you squeezed out of a few screens. One has to wonder what could be studied and learnt out of it if it weren't hidden from scholars
I would be fine if all those private collectors just scanned every page. Who knows how many manuscripts are in private collections that nobody knows of. If they just spent a day making a picture of each page and posting it on IMSLP then we would have so much more to learn from. They can keep their book if they can provide us the contents.
Props to the auction house for making the scans public tho.
@@nextlifeonearth It happens all of the time, here it's "just" a few papers from an unknown musician, why would anybody keep that for himself I wouldn't know. But they (so called "collectors") do either with so many museum pieces and archaeological findings (ahem spoils ahem…) and that way they prevent any further studies of the matter. It's so childishly selfish to keep that from human kind knowledge while they will eventually die and who knows what will happen to those pieces which should be in museums. It's disgusting…
funnily enough, the same thing happens to rare/obscure retro video games, especially ones that were only released in limited runs or in one country. Collectors who don't dump the ROM will buy them up to prevent anyone else from getting to play them.
@@nextlifeonearth No, that would not be fine viz. not good enough, because things can be learned from the original that cannot be learned from scans.
@@nextlifeonearth It wasn't scanned by the auction house; the black-and-white scans that have been hanging out on IMSLP since 2014 were scanned by the guy who bought it at the flea market.
"Since we can not spend so much time together..."
Dude, I watched a 6 hour review/deconstruction of a Japanese dating video game from the 90s here on UA-cam. Take all the time you need, please!
Wow! Off the grid.. Not bad... at all!
the emoji/GIF commentaries throughout are like ornaments in their own right. What a transformation!
Bel video, su un soggetto quant'altri mai affascinante!!
Chissà quanti altri simili manoscritti si trovano ancora nascosti nelle biblioteche fra pubbliche e private!!
Viva i "Topi di Biblioteca" che di quando in quando riescono a scovarli!
E molti complimenti a voi per invogliare alla ricerca!!...
Elam: It may be reasonably assumed that your videos are aimed at a niche audience of musicians and music historians and judging by the majority of informed comments here, that may be the case, but your clear, easily understood explanation of the importance of this manuscript and the brilliantly illustrated examples of what makes it particularly interesting are rare exemplars, on UA-cam, of how to engage the attention of people like myself, who have never learned to play an instrument or read a score. So congratulations! My own interest, at present, is following the development of improvisation in jazz, which I thought was a 'modern' phenomenon ... but apparently not. R (Australia)
An article by Arnaldo Morelli (Universita degli Studi dell'Aquila), published this year (2021) in Basler Beiträge zur Historische Musikpraxis, v. 41, suggests that the manuscript originates from Bologna and that the compiler/composer may have been the Bolognese nobleman Carlo Grati. Is this work done in connection with your Schola Cantorum Basiliensis? I also just noticed that a selection of works from the ms was recorded by SCB, on the Glossa label, in 2017 (needless to say, I'm off to add it to a shopping cart!).
Extraordinary that something so rare was found in a flea market. To think of all the people who must have had it in their possession over the generations... did they know it might be valuable someday, or did they think it was junk and were just too lazy to get rid of it?
A new early music sources video my day is made
Danke!
Elam Rotem is my favorite UA-camr by FAR. Honestly the most insightful individual of taste I 'know'. He's my version of Mr. Beast. I wonder when he will do an episode on MY area of particular theoretical topic of interest from this period - "punto intenso contra remisso" composers such as Coelho and Arauxo?!?!?!
I still can't get over the fact that this manuscript managed to land in a flea market. Still, a very book of vocal music. Awesome video as always, Elam! 😁
Yeah, the person selling it had no idea of its historical value...
The bad part is that the current owner apparently keeps the source away from scholars.
Reminds me of the titanic Missa Salisburgensis à 53 voci of Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber - the manuscript almost being used to wrap some fishes with at a market, moments before someone with a musical background noticed the potential significance, and saved one of the largest, grandest and greatest masses, as well as pieces of liturgical music ever composed from the fate of so many musical compositions of the past...
Simply marvelous video: how wonderful to be able to witness musicological discovery in what seems almost real time. It's also great to see others such as I. Pomykalo jumping right on it. Are there any plans to record a representative selection of the works soon? As far as the identity of Carlo G. goes: do my eyes deceive me, or can the second letter of his surname be an "r"? I bet the original manuscript, if made available for scholarly study, could reveal the full name from one of a variety of nondestructive tests such as trace-element fluorescence imaging.
On a lighter note: Gollum's pop-up appearance was enchanting. :-)
Haha!! Love the sound at 13:25 ! Thx for another exceptionally well crafted episode!! *= )*
This is intriguing to find a new early music source which had never been known. Excellent presentation.
I absolutely loved the cadence at 5:30!
Brilliant, spectacular. My favorite UA-cam channel also brightens my day
5:30 this piece is amazing
Word of the Day: Mala punica☺️
Another excellently produced & most enjoyable video!!🌺
Simply fantastic. A true treasure chest. By the way, that idea of plus sign has resolved a problem I had for years. I love you.
This is outstanding! Thank you :)
this is just toooooo short. U need to make it like a series part 1, part 45, part 86 :) brilliant as always
Wow! What an episode! Truly stunning!
"Precious!"
The testimony of a strikingly high level of musical education and interpretation in the 17th century.Thank you for the amazing video.
A superb video
Fascinating! Keep up the great work!!!
Another *precious* video from this truly rare channel :-)
Great video!
This is just spectacular. So much information, so much history, so much insight, so much beauty. This channel is a very great blessing. Thank you, Elam.
Very good once again! Thank you Elam & Consortes :)
Brilliant, informative and entertaining as always. Thank you for your work
A magnificent discussion of a magnificent manuscript.
Very interesting! I wonder why the author is always referred to as "Carlo G." although the first three letters of his last name can be read without difficulty: "Carlo Gra...". It is unfortunate that the original manuscript is inaccessible since it might, when examined under UV light, reveal the full name.
The 3rd letter is not an "a". Look at this letter in "Carlo".
Terrific video‼ Thank you very much! Really, one never ceases to learn from this channel!
Remarkable find! Thank you for your brilliant analysis as always.
really love your videos!
Thank you...once again a great video
Utterly fascinating, very clear and helpful introduction to an obviously invaluable source. Thank you.
Absolutelly wonderful!
Marvelous. Thank you for this.
Fascinating,i was waiting so much for this!
Thanks for the content
Many thanks for this incredible video! I love listening to this album!
Superlativo, grazie😀
What a fantastic find, great video to wake up to! :)
That "+" ornament is particularly fascinating!
It sounds to me, based on the way you describe it, that the leadup to that ornament could be notated in modern style as a quick accelerando leading up to the "plussed" note. As for notating the compensatory lengthening... I have no idea: a fermata would imply lengthening beyond the metre, not to mention a subsequent silence, and "a tempo" wouldn't compensate for the "lost" time.
amazing
Thank you! (The video description says Perring Devillers).
thanks for noting!
Great as always! And I like the new catchphrase... Not bad, at all!
Grazie.
Wow fascinating. thank u for breaking that down. Manuscripts like this feel like a taste of time traveling
Immensely cool.
Grazie grazie grazie
I love the final cadence of veni dilecte mi.
Saludos desde Argentina! 🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷
Plot twist: it was Carlo Gesualdo all along 😱😱😱
A wild stab in the dark regarding the + sign: a similar meaning to that surmised here is given to an x mark in the St Gallen neumes for chant- I think standing for 'expectare', to wait. These are separated by several centuries, so drawing a connection may well be completely spurious.
It would be interesting if it were Carlo Gesualdo, given last week’s video
Yoooo, it's my home boy Carlo G! Drop the beat, G-dog!
Karol G would be proud
Fantastic video! Are there recordings available somewhere? The interpretations that we can hear in your video sound beautiful. Aren´t you planning to release an album of all that? Thanks a lot for this high quality content.
Yes, there is a released recording. Check the footnote page for details: www.earlymusicsources.com/youtube/carlog
@@EarlyMusicSources Omg I´m listening to it in loops since days, that is very hight quality art work you´ve make there. I pay my respect to the artist AND the the you-tuber who takes the time to answer lazy followers like me who don´t check the foot notes before asking. I suggest that you explicitly mention that there is and album available, please don´t be shy you´re a killer!
Way cool. I may never need to run the air conditioner again.... Who am I kidding? I live in Houston, TX. Nothing could ever be cool enough. LOL
Glad you caught that humor, Elam! Happy Holidays and ciao, maestro!!!
😍😍😍🎵🎶
Super interessting. Love the diminutions. Would one call the musicstyle of Carlo late renaissance or early baroque?
Karol G manuscript
Hi Elam, congratulations for another great and extremely interesting video! Would it be possible to get the (pdf) copies of pieces whose calls for lirone? Kindest regards, Igor Pomykalo
Hi! See the footnote page. The manuscript is available on imslp, and if you can't find the Lirone pieces in it you can consult my article that includes a detailed table of content (link on the footnote page). good luck!
@@EarlyMusicSources Hi Elam, thank you very much I got it! All the best, Igor
I wish there was a recording of pieces in this manuscript. It seems it would be varied because lots different arrangements and instruments are used.
Check the footnote page!
@@EarlyMusicSources Thanks a lot!
"Not bad" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I read Carlo Gra
I think the inconsistent number of voices in each chord in the organ accompaniments is one of the most interesting features because it shows that composers were less and less concerned with and interested in polyphony and independent voices. The modern difference between simpler accompaniment (based on chords with additional notes but without contrapuntal/polyphonic aim) and a more elaborate solo voice/instrument was being born. Is this interpretation correct?
Not bad! (c)
The + sign resembles modern tenuto
So no lost Monteverdi opera in the manuscript, huh? All the same, very interesting!
It's intolerable that precious works of art, like this manuscript, can be sold and disappear in private hands. They are a property of the whole humanity. I am disturbed by the possibility to have the private property of such items (imagine if a mad owner decides to destroy it), but at least, like for historical buildings - the property should be regulated and the owner should have duties. Access to scholars and the possibility to have scans and copies for research use should be granted. Of course it's complicated, it requires an international law.
Wouldn't the + symbol be a "t" from tenuto?
What about those repeated notes? Are those ornaments to be slurred that quickly?
How does that just show up in a flea market? How?
maybe they didn't realise how unique it was?
The seller could have seen that it's very old and thus valuable. Even when he knows nothing about early music.
Shouldn't that be C# in the notation at 6:47?
5:00
10:00
Lyras precious! We hates celloses!
Boil them, mash them, stick them in a motet!
Carlo Gesualdo?
Carlo gesualdo ?
Carlo Gesualdo was an eccentric (understatement?) genius. Was this the Carlo G.???
No, no... Gesualdo ws already passed on by the 2nd decade of the 17th century... or maybe I'm wrong?
Could it be Carlo Gesualdo, the topic of your last episode?
Very unlikely - much too 'normal' for Gesualdo, as are the other composers explicitly identified as inspiration. Plus, Gesualdo lived and worked in Venosa, in Southern Italy, not Bologna.
My scp 6624 enjoyers where are you
The name is missing, so historical research regarding the author is stalled. The manuscript has disappeared so investigation of its physical nature rests on whatever was done before the auction. It’s contents are manifestly divergent in content from known historical examples. Why do we think this manuscript is authentic? Can you please comment on what has been done to authenticate this material?
Interesting, pitty though that the manuscript has not been thoroughly checked itself. It so conveniently reflects what is thought to be right that it could be written quite recently. The lost name of the creator might be a choice of convenience to make finding (and then doubting) a real person very difficult. One can not be sure if only facsimile are there. Curious if it can one day be really tested for age and originality.
It's reasonable to surmise that the ms paper and/or ink was dated to establish authenticity before it was purchased for 65,000 pounds.
If you follow the link to the EMS website, mention is made of it being examined prior to auction.
Yup, Sotheby's had a musicologist work on it. There is a brief codicological description of the manuscript on its still-existing auction page. Plus, the music fits really, really well into the realities of the day -- the recent article by Arnaldo Morelli that places the manuscript into the environment of nunneries in Bologna has a bunch of examples how the music in the manuscript relates to the requirements of a (then-)recent episcopal decree limiting the use of polyphony in female convents. It would be very, very difficult to fake this specific social and historical context, and in any case it would be an extremely odd choice of context to falsify.
@10:20 what was that bullshit ending?
What cruel joke is this? And I thought William Cornysh was unmanageable.
*breathes heavily*
Also, Kudos to the agile-throated singers who made short work of it
Hello have you not noticed that before the me too movement etc people were happy to ignore or attribute to men, work by women.
Repellent that a collector would keep this inaccessible. Why? Nun fantasies? Rich people are incredibly stupid.
17th century only? *yawn; Goes back to studying 11th-century synagogal psalm transcription so that he can cross-reference it with 1st-millenium cantillation systems*
The fact that the Carlo G. manuscript is 300 pages long is impressive, though. A good find, in all seriousness!
As you probably have been waiting for, here's the register: why the irreverent use of the image of Pope Francis?
Are you ready to use other religions references so freely and sneeringly?
I guess you are not. It's a pity that such good contents comes together with this kind of prejudice.
I think the image of Pope Francis was used because converting a secular Italian madrigal to a sacred Latin motet would have pleased the church (i.e. the Pope). I don't see how this would be considered offending.
@@sasropakis I know right? I suppose it could have instead been a reference to the catholic church that was contemporary to this manuscript. Lol. A smiling Pope Francis just seems cute to this non-religious person.
What is "irreverent"? This was sacred music (or adapted to be performed liturgically) written for Catholic nuns.
Bigot.