@@VintageWarfare i was > < close to yelling "MAGAZINE NOT CLIP YOU FUCKING TWADDLEKNOCKER!!!" At you... Then it clicked... I'm glad it clicked before i started typing lol
I'm glad you specified as an American shooter you feel it's better ergo rather than just being like "it just feels better and is easier to reload" since that's more of a training related thing and can be heavily subjective. Now the trigger thing is 100% on point. If I had throw away money I'd have preferred a BP over an AR when I started shooting as I value the compact size but also value the velocity of the long-ish barrel
Yup bullpup has no limit to the barrel and can be increase its length. But AR, m16 and ect... they have flaws when it comes to barrel length and has to be changed depending on combat situations. That's why M4 is there to be used in urban areas and yes m16 can be used in urban combat but it's about the speed of how fast you can move in tight spaces while firing your rifle first before the enemy gets you. While open area's m16 and other long rifles don't have that issue there.
As famous as the AUG is and definitely still a great gun, it was one of the first bullpups and i think comparing more modern bullpups like the tavor X95 and desert tech MDR really show that the designs drawbacks are being buffed out and I see them as the future
Agreed. Personally I’ve shot a older tavor 21 and it’s ergonomics we’re ‘meh’ mainly due to bulk. However I’ve held fhe x95 and have wanted to fire a MDR as I’ve heard their much better ergonomically and better quality. But I’ve yet to had the honor to test them as of yet
@@RabbitArms yea I never really liked looks or feel of the tavors that isnt the X95, its just more perfect in every way. And the MDR is just hitting the market and I hope people really consider it as a viable alternative to the oversaturated AR market
Tavor was designed visually first and then they got to create the mechanics of it that would fit what they had drawn. It's famous to be butt heavy. I don't see how it is a better rifle than Aug. Aug is a bulletproof design that has been through many conflicts and that has been constantly improving
Spoken like a man that's never been told to not go all the way in because it's so big it hurts. Trust me, sometimes the lower half of the shift wants some lovin' too, but if you're too big the best you get is a hand.
Then clearly you’ve never made a woman O. I’m average sized but it’s never been an issue for me getting laid Many do not like big schlongs, and prefer normal sizes. It’s not about the size but rather what you do with it. As also mentioned above, large sizes tend to hurt women more and usually you can’t get all of it in(average size of a hole in a woman is 3 inches deep) , thus making being not always advantageous. Same thing with guns. If you need to store or smuggle your weapon, or are in a more modern setting (think urban warfare ) the AUG Steyr is the obvious choice. It’s honestly a good pick in all situations but especially in close quarters combat, which is like about 90% of modern engagements anyways.
I mean, both have their pros and cons, that's why I don't prefer either the AR or the AK, as both have good features. IMO, I prefer the AR to the AUG, due to the fact that it's easier to reload and to clear jams with, and if you want a shorter length, you can install a shorter barrel.
true but with a BP it maintains the same muzzle velocity by having the same barrel length as an ar at a shorter length so if i had an ar and an aug that are the same size the aug would have a greater muzzle velocity which for some is unnecessary but others may choose more firepower over ergonomics
I love the way you said you reload faster but in the actual video, the AUG reload was over a second faster. But also, like you said, as an American shooter. You've grown up with the AR15 so it's what you're used to, If you had spent the same time on each gun, you might prefer the ergos of something else.
At the end of the day it’s a oranges vs Apples thing. I love Oranges and apples equally personally, and that’s why I love ARs and the Bullpup (AUGs specifically) equally. What gun you love and appreciate more is purely up to the individual as not all humans are built the same. Some people prefer the SKS as their weapon of choice, some the AR10 and hell some would could probably argue that they believe the Ruger PC carbine is the best gun for them.
The ergo on both is great. Speed comes with what you practice. If you practice with the aug you’ll be just as fast as the ar, especially if you get the model with the bolt release.
There's a reason why the militaries are switching back from Bullpup to AR's. Not to mention Nato country's Spec ops mostly use AR variants over their native bullpups.
It's because for most combatants, size doesn't matter as much as ergonomics and reliability. And when it does matter, recently great AR-15 designs and calibers that can perform in small packages have been invented. That being said, I still love bullpups, because hypothetically they squeeze the most performance out of the smallest box.
as an austrian police officer i can only say that the aug a3 „police subcompact“ is simply beautiful. Some small changes were made in comparison to the military version, a shorter barrel for example
I find it funny that one big reason Australia has the styer aug is that when the contract was decided, colt refused to allow us to make the M4 here if we selected it, which was a crucial part of what our government wanted.
@@eradicatormkivgaming honestly not sure how that’s done, if we make them or not, but that’s a marksman rifle not our main service rifle, also it’s a different government that signed for that.
Yes but also no the AUG A1 outperformed the M16A2 in our trials which the documents of are public so you can look them up if you would like. According to the documents the M16A2 particular underperformed compared to the AUG A1 in endurance and adverse conditions, while the AUG A1 was in general slightly superior to the M16A2 in all other regards. Now how that holds up with other testing done like by In Range for example idk these were old tests and people like to say they were rigged but they are what they are and we’re the basis for the adoption of the Steyr over the colt rifle.
@@cynicalfox190 i remember being issued one for enemy party and the damn thingy would jam every few shots and that was in sholwater and kept clean. Some of them sadly just didn't work great.
1: which one do you reload more often? 2: which one have you had longer? 3: which one is your personal favorite? 4: how many accessories do you have for both? If you're going to make comparisons between bullpups and full lengths or ARs against anything else you can't go in biased and on top of that what you need to understand is ARs are incredibly versatile because of the fact that so many purchase them so of course there are going to be a lot of parts that will make them very versatile. You have to remember that you're essentially comparing two different types of guns. The ammo doesn't make the gun The gun makes the gun. If you're in close quarters having a longer barrel is not going to be as safe if you have the space it doesn't make any difference you might as well just go for the one that there's more parts for so when something does eventually happen you can replace it very easily and quickly. If I'm going to be in close quarters clearing room after room house after house and I need something with enough power to put somebody down even if they're two houses over then I'm going to want the bullpup but if I'm on the outside circling the house I'm going to want the AR.
Quick question: you stated that bull pup triggers are worse but what makes it so? Design flaw innate to the system? Or is it something that can be alleviated through customization? Sorry just curious.
The trigger is designed for semi and full auto. If im remembering correct the semiauto break pressure is 2kg and full auto is 4kg. Both can technically be achieved with 1 squeeze. The trigger also as a full auto lockout for range use.
To anyone saying the bill pup reload was faster. He was having a hard time pulling the mag out of the pouch. Just look from the time he has it in HAND to in the MAGWELL and releasing the bolt. Plus the mag was on his side for the ar. and in the front pouch for the aug. as well as the aug being in a high and tight position to reload the magazine. The ar was down range the whole time.
Go to a gun show you can get Yugoslavian capture K98Ks for 400-500$ if you want waffenampts expect to pay 800-1200 for a Russian Captured K98K and 2000+ for a genuine untouched German K98K
I believe the beginning of recoil or the location in which the ammunition ignites needs to be at/near the trigger hand like an AR and not mid air between your shoulder and hand like on bullpups. Makes for unsteadiness if not.
THEM: "So, basically would you rather have an ergonomic platform or look like the baddest bad guy in Die Hard?" ME: "Um... bad guy in Die Hard, please."
Solution, the same solution that US and British special forces came to - an 10.5" barrel AR with a QD suppressor. Short when needed, quiet when needed. Over-all length is still less than 16 inches.
I love bullpups as I have short arms. from the bullpups i have held/fired, keltec (ironically) and desert tech have the best triggers. i have shot a p90 and it has a super shitty trigger like the aug (they function the same, where half pull is a semi auto shot). Desert tech has the best. keltecs are very good, but not even close to DT.
I choose option C. The galil ace. Reliability of an AK, in a milled receiver, extremely accurate, and they’re just badass. I own one- and it will run laps around any AR I’ve ever seen.
Not to mention the modularity at the moment is pretty stellar on the AR compared to practically anything else on the market. You could diversify take down pins to specific tolerances because I’m sure some random company makes them. It’s gotten to a level so ridiculous, yet it’s a great selling point for individuality. Sure bullpups will inevitably reach similar areas too. But it’s hard to say when that’ll happen.
Regarding bullpup reloads, the AUG can be done pretty fast. It also doesn’t help that the NATO ones lack a bolt release on them while the ones that take the Steyr mags do have them.
The bullpup is actually faster then the AR at loading by one second. I actually counted. Edit: if it is indeed that you were being lazy that you loaded the bullpup faster, wouldn’t it be prudent to redo the video with effort this time?
I've shot AR platforms. I've never got to use an Bullpup on the range. I really love the designs and as you stated the compactness to them. As much as I like a HK416 but I would still be partial to a VHS-D2 also known as Springfield Hellion. A very pleasing platform to look at.
The Israeli Tavor and the M4 are both used by IDF a military who have been in a constant state of war since 1948. IDF developed the Tavor after using m16 and m4 since 1973. The Tavor offers 500 meter accuracy with compact size suitable to combat in built up areas. Two tools similar yet different. Choose the one you need for the job.
The bullpup was primarily created to be more ergonomic by shortening traditional main battle rifles and bringing the magazine closer to the shooters chest where spare magazines are stored creating a more compact shooter and as such also a smaller target for the enemy.
Fun fact with the aug, newer and modern day iterations of the aug also have quick change barrels In fact the Australian version AUStyer EF88 (I think) it is has a carbine barrel, standard length barrel, heavy long barrel with built in bipod compatible with 42 round mags The issue I have with AUGs is realestate for picatinnies And they’re harder to load prone Especially with the 42 round mags maybe if they did like a quad stack coffin mag I don’t see it being too comfortable to use c-mags or drums although i have seen ppl use 100 round c-mags and say they weren’t as bed as they thought
AUG has a lot of parts you cab 3D print to make it better, namely a mechanical leverage trigger (9lb draw -> 3.5lb), an AK style mag release for the legacy version (takes waffle mags), and there’s work being done to make trigger packs that can house AR-15 drop-in triggers.
The idea of the Bullpup was to enable the longer barrel of the older guns to be used in a package with the same overall length as the newer guns with the shorter barrels. That was fine until the whole the platform changed to use a smaller cartridge that actually works better with the shorter barrel. Best use of a Bullpup platform is like a 7.62 NATO, because a 22-24 inch barrel will make better use of the increased amount of powder, compared to the 5.56 NATO. So, like an M1A or M14, versus M16 or M4.
if you’re strictly talking ergonomics my x95 is so much more comfortable to shoulder, just feels perfect since all the weight is close to my body it doesn’t tire muscles out as much as an ar . That said i love ar as well
For me, it simply comes down to the trigger. I’ve found that the ability of the shooter is greatly limited by a trigger. This applies more for sidearms than rifles, but it still comes into effect. Also, a good trigger makes training people much easier, as their aim gets better faster and they can see themselves improving. If you are just shooting shooting shooting and your results don’t improve much, it’s very discouraging.
The Aug or STG77 is the Austrian service rifle. I was trained on it and its such a wonderful gun. Zero Recoil, easy to maintain, and your able to completely disassemble the Gun without the use of any tools. +Cleaning gear fits in the stock. Truly amazing
Bullpup triggers are definitely getting better. They'll probably never be as good as a direct drive trigger group, but pretty darn close. I have an A3 Tactical Triad using a Rise Armament drop-in and it breaks quite nice at about 4.5 pounds with about a millimeter of takeup in the transfer bar mechanism. Only the most gucci of triggers feel noticeably better to me.
Benefits to both for me: -AR-15: Parts are easy to find, they're generally cheaper overall, and I can add optics and other stuff onto easier. -Bullpup: I can pretend like I'm Master Chief from Halo *Halo 2 MJOLNIR theme starts playing*
aug triggers can be made really good. the NATO version you have has a much worse trigger than the standard AUG. they are adjustable and plenty of aftermarket trigger options to get it down
Fun fact: the militarized AUG trigger is fucky because it’s a heavier trigger pull because if it’s pulled halfway it’s either x1-x3 round and pulling all the way is full auto
I really want a Steyr Aug but Im gonna stick with my AR for 4 reasons . 1.cmmg 22 bolt conversion kit 2.aftermarket parts 3. bullpup triggers are dog shit 4. Most bullpups are around $2,000 or more
If you're out in an open area, AR is more ideal. If you're in urban combat and have to enter a tighter space, the bullpup will give you that nice comfortable grip to stay tight.
The bullpup design not only makes the gun more compact and more maneuverable but also makes the gun accurate and gives it a longer effective range because of it's longer barrel. The bad trigger, complexity, higher price and the casing ejection port being too close to ur face are the only downsides really,Some bullpups like the MDRX have already solved the trigger and ejection issues, they're still more expensive and more difficult to clean and maintain than the avg traditional assault rifle tho.
I prefer standard builds like AR AK G36c etc style. But, for the same length rifle bullpups generally have longer barrels and therefore better range/accuracy. For the same size rifle it would have a 12" vs the 16" in the Aug
It's more of a parts availability thing for me. Things like when your extractor breaks, a lug shears, or the hammer spring breaks. It's easy to source those things here in the States.
The Styer is what I use in the Irish army it’s very good and reliable. We use our own modified version that is also semi auto capable and has a quite reload feature on the cocking handle. Definitely would recommend. It’s also dual handed as you can choose which side to have the ejection port open on.
I have a Tar 21. With the x95 trigger group, so the trigger is a crisp 4lbs release. Mine is both compact and ergonomic. So my IWI bullpup is a dream machine for me.
Using extremely advanced software I was able to figure out the following: AR: 4.27 Second reload time. Bulpup: 2.69 second reload time. My hypothesis is that he can not reload the AR platform faster, thus making the bulpup better for reloading. Thanks you.
I'm a short guy, and the X95 feels like it's made for me. Short, easy-ish to manipulate, the reloads are pretty fast if you train them and it's an 18 inch barrel in an SBR legnth rifle.
As far as body mechanics of reloading I'd have to edge the bulpup. That position is is more braced into your arm giving more stability when locating the mag. Depending on the weapon you can also finish the full reload cycle moving your arm in the same direction. As an American shooter I also concur with your first thoughts about personal speed.
“Why would I need the slightly more compact size? It’s not going to make that much of a difference when shtf lol” -someone who’s never daydreamed about boarding a pirate ship
So basically, it depends on the mission and task at hand. If operating inside a vehicle, bullpup it is. For other missions, then AR may be the better choice. No one size fits all.
I like the AUG. Nice rifle. It is all what you are used to and what works for you. That being said. Some additional things that make the AR more useful to me. Simply pushing two take down pins I can switchthe upper receiver with 6 different calibers or barrel lengts. In some cases with no other changes at all. Some with relatively minor changes like magazines. The trigger pull and operation stay the same.
Most of the practical reloading time takes taking mag out of the pouch, so if its 1 sec quicker to reload one gun instead of other doesn't really matter if taking mag out of the pouch takes 6 secs
I have used the F88 Steyr and the F88E Steyr for years and one thing underappreciated for it is that because of where the weight in the rifle and centre mass are it is much much more comfortable to carry for long periods of time and its much easier to hold at ready for longer periods of time
Both but for how future military is going towards we might see more leaning towards the bullpup. And seeing how technology has been improving more and more with the bullpup system the trigger issue will fall off. But as of now both are great in certain combat situations and won't be replaced till that time comes.
Idk it seems that USA, Russia and China aren't going the bullpup route. I also recall seeing somewhere that France is switching over to the AR platform, but don't quote me on that.
@@johnsteves9158 yeah but the army has talked about changing away from the AR platform to more for the bullpup rifles but it's still being tested with special forces to see what they can to change the training style so that in the future everyone in the army can change to it. Even other military branches are thinking the same thing but right now with the pandemic happened they want to go with the new barrel and new prototype round to change up the game.
@@outlawstar2090 I was really hoping the General Dynamics design would win the NGSW bid along with the polymer ammo, but i understand the military's decision to go with the sig design. We'll see how weapons evolve over time, but I'd definitely like to see more love given to bullpups.
Love everything better about the AR except the stress it puts on my support side shoulder/neck. The Tavor helps in being easier to support, for longer, by nature of its weight balance.
I personally really like bullpup rifles due to the ergonomics, the recoil impulse feels a bit easier to handle imo as well. My service rifle is an AR platform but recreationally I shoot bullpup occasionally.
I have an AUG and the other big advantage to a bullpup is I can shoot it one handed much more easily. Since the weight is on the rear, you can shoulder it and there is basically no weight in front of your hand. Makes it easier if you have to do something else with your other hand.
Another advantage of the bullpup (I say this as a British guy who hasn't handled a gun, but based on observation), it looks like it'd be much easier to fire from a vehicle and indoors fighting
Being raised with bullpups for shooting I would say ergonomically I can Reload and manage my weapon much more efficiently but it's more just a training and exposure thing
The Styer AUG and the IWI Tavor are my two favorite bullpups, I love the AUG because of it's history and polymer fire control group, and I love the IWI Tavor because I really like Israeli designs.
"Can reload the ar faster" loads the bullpup like 2x faster.
I was being lazy in the first clip 😂
@@VintageWarfare i was > < close to yelling "MAGAZINE NOT CLIP YOU FUCKING TWADDLEKNOCKER!!!" At you...
Then it clicked...
I'm glad it clicked before i started typing lol
Shoulda just had the other mag in hand when he discarded the empty one.
@@Damocles54 I'm stealing twaddleknocker
@@Damocles54 what if you just stopped correcting people on things that practically make no difference
“I can reload these faster”
>immediately reloads the bullpup way faster
To be fair the AR would've been faster if he wasn't reaching for the mag for 15 minutes
nope for the ar he presses a button for the aug he has to rack the bolt so the ar cheated and the aug wins
@@schlimmerfinger1202 specific AUGs have bolt catches, so its reload could be faster
@@anotherrandomhkplayer6243 It's still a bullpup, which will always be more awkward to reload due to basically having to stick a mag in your armpit
@@landonray9517 I’m American so this is gonna sound so weird but I have an easier time reloading bullpup rifles like the aug
I'm glad you specified as an American shooter you feel it's better ergo rather than just being like "it just feels better and is easier to reload" since that's more of a training related thing and can be heavily subjective.
Now the trigger thing is 100% on point.
If I had throw away money I'd have preferred a BP over an AR when I started shooting as I value the compact size but also value the velocity of the long-ish barrel
Yup bullpup has no limit to the barrel and can be increase its length. But AR, m16 and ect... they have flaws when it comes to barrel length and has to be changed depending on combat situations. That's why M4 is there to be used in urban areas and yes m16 can be used in urban combat but it's about the speed of how fast you can move in tight spaces while firing your rifle first before the enemy gets you. While open area's m16 and other long rifles don't have that issue there.
Right?? AR reload vid seemed like guy could not have taken more of his sweet time to reload
@@ampedturtle4033 I was just kinda casually plinking in that clip tbh
Well saying that isn’t necessarily subjective in terms of reloading in the prone position.
@@weakest17yrold yeah cause you have to reload a freaking BP all the time when in prone.
“I can reload the AR faster”
*fumbles the magazine*
Nice pfp
As famous as the AUG is and definitely still a great gun, it was one of the first bullpups and i think comparing more modern bullpups like the tavor X95 and desert tech MDR really show that the designs drawbacks are being buffed out and I see them as the future
Agreed. Personally I’ve shot a older tavor 21 and it’s ergonomics we’re ‘meh’ mainly due to bulk. However I’ve held fhe x95 and have wanted to fire a MDR as I’ve heard their much better ergonomically and better quality. But I’ve yet to had the honor to test them as of yet
The aug is still the best bullpup
@@casematecardinal eehhhhhh, its definitely good but I think its getting outclassed at this point
@@RabbitArms yea I never really liked looks or feel of the tavors that isnt the X95, its just more perfect in every way. And the MDR is just hitting the market and I hope people really consider it as a viable alternative to the oversaturated AR market
Tavor was designed visually first and then they got to create the mechanics of it that would fit what they had drawn. It's famous to be butt heavy. I don't see how it is a better rifle than Aug. Aug is a bulletproof design that has been through many conflicts and that has been constantly improving
"can reload the ar faster"
*Almost finished my master's degree while your were reloading that AR*
You get it yet
"If you want a compact package thats good at getting in tight little places" said no man ever to a woman.
Spoken like a man that's never been told to not go all the way in because it's so big it hurts. Trust me, sometimes the lower half of the shift wants some lovin' too, but if you're too big the best you get is a hand.
@@ParadigmUnkn0wn shouldn't ASSUME, it only makes an ass out of u and me.
@@ParadigmUnkn0wn Feel this. Sometimes a big member is a bit of a curse and the base doesn’t get any attention
Then clearly you’ve never made a woman O.
I’m average sized but it’s never been an issue for me getting laid
Many do not like big schlongs, and prefer normal sizes. It’s not about the size but rather what you do with it. As also mentioned above, large sizes tend to hurt women more and usually you can’t get all of it in(average size of a hole in a woman is 3 inches deep) , thus making being not always advantageous.
Same thing with guns. If you need to store or smuggle your weapon, or are in a more modern setting (think urban warfare ) the AUG Steyr is the obvious choice. It’s honestly a good pick in all situations but especially in close quarters combat, which is like about 90% of modern engagements anyways.
I mean, both have their pros and cons, that's why I don't prefer either the AR or the AK, as both have good features. IMO, I prefer the AR to the AUG, due to the fact that it's easier to reload and to clear jams with, and if you want a shorter length, you can install a shorter barrel.
true but with a BP it maintains the same muzzle velocity by having the same barrel length as an ar at a shorter length so if i had an ar and an aug that are the same size the aug would have a greater muzzle velocity which for some is unnecessary but others may choose more firepower over ergonomics
Thing with the aug though is that you don’t loose accuracy and range with the shorter barrel since the barrel isn’t actually shorter
Yea I think that a big con I also think he should’ve mentioned that ars are a lot more customizable
If you make the barrel on an AR shorter it would be less accurate.
@@nateo-ft4do Other is a civilian concentrated platform still widely in use, the other is a military rifle from the 60'. I wonder why?
I love the way you said you reload faster but in the actual video, the AUG reload was over a second faster. But also, like you said, as an American shooter. You've grown up with the AR15 so it's what you're used to, If you had spent the same time on each gun, you might prefer the ergos of something else.
It was me being super lazy on that reload lmao
@@VintageWarfare yeah you didn't look like you were trying that hard.
Looked like he was pulling from a pocket vs pulling from a carrier. There's no reason an Aug should be slower than an AR. Just how much you practice
At the end of the day it’s a oranges vs Apples thing. I love Oranges and apples equally personally, and that’s why I love ARs and the Bullpup (AUGs specifically) equally. What gun you love and appreciate more is purely up to the individual as not all humans are built the same. Some people prefer the SKS as their weapon of choice, some the AR10 and hell some would could probably argue that they believe the Ruger PC carbine is the best gun for them.
The ergo on both is great. Speed comes with what you practice. If you practice with the aug you’ll be just as fast as the ar, especially if you get the model with the bolt release.
There's a reason why the militaries are switching back from Bullpup to AR's. Not to mention Nato country's Spec ops mostly use AR variants over their native bullpups.
It's because for most combatants, size doesn't matter as much as ergonomics and reliability. And when it does matter, recently great AR-15 designs and calibers that can perform in small packages have been invented. That being said, I still love bullpups, because hypothetically they squeeze the most performance out of the smallest box.
"I can reload these faster" struggles with the magazine
As a Austrian who had the Aug in the Army i gotta say it's a indestructible and accurate rifle
As an Australian who had the AUG/F88 in the army I can only agree with you
as an austrian police officer i can only say that the aug a3 „police subcompact“ is simply beautiful. Some small changes were made in comparison to the military version, a shorter barrel for example
I find it funny that one big reason Australia has the styer aug is that when the contract was decided, colt refused to allow us to make the M4 here if we selected it, which was a crucial part of what our government wanted.
But how you guys get 417?
@@eradicatormkivgaming honestly not sure how that’s done, if we make them or not, but that’s a marksman rifle not our main service rifle, also it’s a different government that signed for that.
Yes the f88 became styre in name only after our adoption.
Yes but also no the AUG A1 outperformed the M16A2 in our trials which the documents of are public so you can look them up if you would like. According to the documents the M16A2 particular underperformed compared to the AUG A1 in endurance and adverse conditions, while the AUG A1 was in general slightly superior to the M16A2 in all other regards. Now how that holds up with other testing done like by In Range for example idk these were old tests and people like to say they were rigged but they are what they are and we’re the basis for the adoption of the Steyr over the colt rifle.
@@cynicalfox190 i remember being issued one for enemy party and the damn thingy would jam every few shots and that was in sholwater and kept clean. Some of them sadly just didn't work great.
1: which one do you reload more often?
2: which one have you had longer?
3: which one is your personal favorite?
4: how many accessories do you have for both?
If you're going to make comparisons between bullpups and full lengths or ARs against anything else you can't go in biased and on top of that what you need to understand is ARs are incredibly versatile because of the fact that so many purchase them so of course there are going to be a lot of parts that will make them very versatile.
You have to remember that you're essentially comparing two different types of guns.
The ammo doesn't make the gun The gun makes the gun.
If you're in close quarters having a longer barrel is not going to be as safe if you have the space it doesn't make any difference you might as well just go for the one that there's more parts for so when something does eventually happen you can replace it very easily and quickly.
If I'm going to be in close quarters clearing room after room house after house and I need something with enough power to put somebody down even if they're two houses over then I'm going to want the bullpup but if I'm on the outside circling the house I'm going to want the AR.
Quick question: you stated that bull pup triggers are worse but what makes it so? Design flaw innate to the system? Or is it something that can be alleviated through customization? Sorry just curious.
Because the trigger isn’t connected directly to the fire control group.
The trigger is designed for semi and full auto. If im remembering correct the semiauto break pressure is 2kg and full auto is 4kg. Both can technically be achieved with 1 squeeze. The trigger also as a full auto lockout for range use.
To anyone saying the bill pup reload was faster. He was having a hard time pulling the mag out of the pouch. Just look from the time he has it in HAND to in the MAGWELL and releasing the bolt. Plus the mag was on his side for the ar. and in the front pouch for the aug. as well as the aug being in a high and tight position to reload the magazine. The ar was down range the whole time.
"A small package that can get into little tight spaces" I'm gonna start using that
Why is everything sex with you?
We’re all trained on conventional weapon systems, once we’re trained on bullpups we’re gonna love those just as much if not more.
Meanwhile my dream rifle is a Kar98 xD
Yea, I'd like a M1 Garand or a Henry Lever rifle
Go to a gun show you can get Yugoslavian capture K98Ks for 400-500$ if you want waffenampts expect to pay 800-1200 for a Russian Captured K98K and 2000+ for a genuine untouched German K98K
@@DelGTAGrndrs yea I'd love to do that, hopefully I can one day
Me too
I need a Lee Enfield mk3 in my life 😌
I believe the beginning of recoil or the location in which the ammunition ignites needs to be at/near the trigger hand like an AR and not mid air between your shoulder and hand like on bullpups. Makes for unsteadiness if not.
Ah yes, the aug is every bull pup ever invented
the aug is certainly one of the bullpups ever made
@@notahandle965 tavors outclass Augs in the current meta
@@0mniVerse777 tavors are just fucking israelí cringe
It’s probably the most famous bullpup ever.
The sexiness factor of the aug out way all the cons.😂😍
THEM: "So, basically would you rather have an ergonomic platform or look like the baddest bad guy in Die Hard?"
ME: "Um... bad guy in Die Hard, please."
"I can reload the AR faster"
proceeds to load the bullpup like 5X faster
"Compact package that's really good at getting into tight spaces" I feel personally attacked
Solution, the same solution that US and British special forces came to - an 10.5" barrel AR with a QD suppressor. Short when needed, quiet when needed. Over-all length is still less than 16 inches.
"Ar can reload faster!"
*shows example were bullpup is reloaded faster.
Gun store clerk: "So which one do you want?"
Me: "Yes."
I love bullpups as I have short arms. from the bullpups i have held/fired, keltec (ironically) and desert tech have the best triggers. i have shot a p90 and it has a super shitty trigger like the aug (they function the same, where half pull is a semi auto shot). Desert tech has the best. keltecs are very good, but not even close to DT.
I choose option C. The galil ace. Reliability of an AK, in a milled receiver, extremely accurate, and they’re just badass. I own one- and it will run laps around any AR I’ve ever seen.
When someone asks me which is better I always say neither cause there's uses for both it really just depends on what you plan to do with it
They are made to do the same thing
@@johnreaper4452 in some ways yes. But in general no
@@toastycarpet9873 they are both assault rifles
@@johnreaper4452 sure but they do things that the other doesn't
Not to mention the modularity at the moment is pretty stellar on the AR compared to practically anything else on the market. You could diversify take down pins to specific tolerances because I’m sure some random company makes them. It’s gotten to a level so ridiculous, yet it’s a great selling point for individuality.
Sure bullpups will inevitably reach similar areas too. But it’s hard to say when that’ll happen.
M16 gang
It's not a M16
@@wormnutrient5508 really 😱
@@weakest17yrold truly baffling
@@wormnutrient5508 what😧😹
@@slft47 an AR and M16 are different
Regarding bullpup reloads, the AUG can be done pretty fast. It also doesn’t help that the NATO ones lack a bolt release on them while the ones that take the Steyr mags do have them.
The bullpup is actually faster then the AR at loading by one second. I actually counted. Edit: if it is indeed that you were being lazy that you loaded the bullpup faster, wouldn’t it be prudent to redo the video with effort this time?
I've shot AR platforms. I've never got to use an Bullpup on the range. I really love the designs and as you stated the compactness to them. As much as I like a HK416 but I would still be partial to a VHS-D2 also known as Springfield Hellion. A very pleasing platform to look at.
Also, some of the bullpups can help with the recoil, as the mag adds weight to the back, balancing the weapon
The Israeli Tavor and the M4 are both used by IDF a military who have been in a constant state of war since 1948. IDF developed the Tavor after using m16 and m4 since 1973. The Tavor offers 500 meter accuracy with compact size suitable to combat in built up areas. Two tools similar yet different. Choose the one you need for the job.
situational choices both are great
The bullpup was primarily created to be more ergonomic by shortening traditional main battle rifles and bringing the magazine closer to the shooters chest where spare magazines are stored creating a more compact shooter and as such also a smaller target for the enemy.
Fun fact with the aug, newer and modern day iterations of the aug also have quick change barrels
In fact the Australian version AUStyer EF88 (I think) it is has a carbine barrel, standard length barrel, heavy long barrel with built in bipod compatible with 42 round mags
The issue I have with AUGs is realestate for picatinnies
And they’re harder to load prone
Especially with the 42 round mags maybe if they did like a quad stack coffin mag I don’t see it being too comfortable to use c-mags or drums although i have seen ppl use 100 round c-mags and say they weren’t as bed as they thought
AUG has a lot of parts you cab 3D print to make it better, namely a mechanical leverage trigger (9lb draw -> 3.5lb), an AK style mag release for the legacy version (takes waffle mags), and there’s work being done to make trigger packs that can house AR-15 drop-in triggers.
I like both.
First time i picked up an aug i was hooked on the compact balanced feel. The 16” bbl in a tiny package is great.
The idea of the Bullpup was to enable the longer barrel of the older guns to be used in a package with the same overall length as the newer guns with the shorter barrels.
That was fine until the whole the platform changed to use a smaller cartridge that actually works better with the shorter barrel.
Best use of a Bullpup platform is like a 7.62 NATO, because a 22-24 inch barrel will make better use of the increased amount of powder, compared to the 5.56 NATO.
So, like an M1A or M14, versus M16 or M4.
Personally I really enjoy the ergonomics of the AUG over the AR-15. It maybe because it’s so different, but it just feels right to me
if you’re strictly talking ergonomics my x95 is so much more comfortable to shoulder, just feels perfect since all the weight is close to my body it doesn’t tire muscles out as much as an ar . That said i love ar as well
For me, it simply comes down to the trigger. I’ve found that the ability of the shooter is greatly limited by a trigger. This applies more for sidearms than rifles, but it still comes into effect.
Also, a good trigger makes training people much easier, as their aim gets better faster and they can see themselves improving. If you are just shooting shooting shooting and your results don’t improve much, it’s very discouraging.
Thats how you know you actually fire at targets. Most people who say “aw bullpups are so much better” only shoot at piles of trash and dirt haha
On a personal note the AR also seems to have more forward weight while the bullpups puts the weight in more in your shoulder.
The Aug or STG77 is the Austrian service rifle. I was trained on it and its such a wonderful gun. Zero Recoil, easy to maintain, and your able to completely disassemble the Gun without the use of any tools. +Cleaning gear fits in the stock. Truly amazing
Bullpups are good for close quarters and can be used to replace smgs but on frontline sitiations full sized rifle is better.
Bullpup triggers are definitely getting better. They'll probably never be as good as a direct drive trigger group, but pretty darn close. I have an A3 Tactical Triad using a Rise Armament drop-in and it breaks quite nice at about 4.5 pounds with about a millimeter of takeup in the transfer bar mechanism. Only the most gucci of triggers feel noticeably better to me.
Benefits to both for me:
-AR-15: Parts are easy to find, they're generally cheaper overall, and I can add optics and other stuff onto easier.
-Bullpup: I can pretend like I'm Master Chief from Halo
*Halo 2 MJOLNIR theme starts playing*
Fun fact
The reason the trigger and grip are so odd on the AUG is because they where designed to be used while at wearing snow gloves
Not getting shot in a doorway because your rifle is too long has entered the chat.
Dude was fishing for that AR mag
Except bullpups, don't work for left-handed people....one thing gun manufacturers keep forgetting....
aug triggers can be made really good. the NATO version you have has a much worse trigger than the standard AUG. they are adjustable and plenty of aftermarket trigger options to get it down
Fun fact: the militarized AUG trigger is fucky because it’s a heavier trigger pull because if it’s pulled halfway it’s either x1-x3 round and pulling all the way is full auto
I really want a Steyr Aug but Im gonna stick with my AR for 4 reasons . 1.cmmg 22 bolt conversion kit 2.aftermarket parts 3. bullpup triggers are dog shit 4. Most bullpups are around $2,000 or more
If you're out in an open area, AR is more ideal. If you're in urban combat and have to enter a tighter space, the bullpup will give you that nice comfortable grip to stay tight.
The bullpup design not only makes the gun more compact and more maneuverable but also makes the gun accurate and gives it a longer effective range because of it's longer barrel. The bad trigger, complexity, higher price and the casing ejection port being too close to ur face are the only downsides really,Some bullpups like the MDRX have already solved the trigger and ejection issues, they're still more expensive and more difficult to clean and maintain than the avg traditional assault rifle tho.
Actually prefer both depending on situation. For closer quarters and tighter corners the bull. Open areas and range shooting ar
I don't like bullpups because it brings catastrophic failures closer to the shooter.
I prefer standard builds like AR AK G36c etc style. But, for the same length rifle bullpups generally have longer barrels and therefore better range/accuracy. For the same size rifle it would have a 12" vs the 16" in the Aug
I've watched videos of people reloading bullpups faster than ar15s.
It's more of a parts availability thing for me. Things like when your extractor breaks, a lug shears, or the hammer spring breaks. It's easy to source those things here in the States.
And that's why you need both!
The Styer is what I use in the Irish army it’s very good and reliable. We use our own modified version that is also semi auto capable and has a quite reload feature on the cocking handle. Definitely would recommend. It’s also dual handed as you can choose which side to have the ejection port open on.
I have a Tar 21. With the x95 trigger group, so the trigger is a crisp 4lbs release. Mine is both compact and ergonomic. So my IWI bullpup is a dream machine for me.
MK Mutant + Aug Combination (PUBGM/BGMI) 🔥😂
Using extremely advanced software I was able to figure out the following:
AR: 4.27 Second reload time.
Bulpup: 2.69 second reload time.
My hypothesis is that he can not reload the AR platform faster, thus making the bulpup better for reloading.
Thanks you.
Training is key. I wouldn’t say ergonomics go either way until you’re equally trained on both platforms.
I've found that bullpups are actually more ergonomic overall because the mass of the weapon is closer to your body and this less force on your arms
I'm a short guy, and the X95 feels like it's made for me. Short, easy-ish to manipulate, the reloads are pretty fast if you train them and it's an 18 inch barrel in an SBR legnth rifle.
As far as body mechanics of reloading I'd have to edge the bulpup. That position is is more braced into your arm giving more stability when locating the mag. Depending on the weapon you can also finish the full reload cycle moving your arm in the same direction. As an American shooter I also concur with your first thoughts about personal speed.
“Why would I need the slightly more compact size? It’s not going to make that much of a difference when shtf lol”
-someone who’s never daydreamed about boarding a pirate ship
So basically, it depends on the mission and task at hand. If operating inside a vehicle, bullpup it is. For other missions, then AR may be the better choice. No one size fits all.
AR being more modular is great. Swapping uppers from a 22” 224 valk upper for coyotes or
Swap to my 6.8spc upper for deer.
I like the AUG. Nice rifle.
It is all what you are used to and what works for you.
That being said.
Some additional things that make the AR more useful to me.
Simply pushing two take down pins I can switchthe upper receiver with 6 different calibers or barrel lengts.
In some cases with no other changes at all.
Some with relatively minor changes like magazines.
The trigger pull and operation stay the same.
Most of the practical reloading time takes taking mag out of the pouch, so if its 1 sec quicker to reload one gun instead of other doesn't really matter if taking mag out of the pouch takes 6 secs
You reloaded that bullpen 10x faster then the ar
I have used the F88 Steyr and the F88E Steyr for years and one thing underappreciated for it is that because of where the weight in the rifle and centre mass are it is much much more comfortable to carry for long periods of time and its much easier to hold at ready for longer periods of time
Both but for how future military is going towards we might see more leaning towards the bullpup. And seeing how technology has been improving more and more with the bullpup system the trigger issue will fall off. But as of now both are great in certain combat situations and won't be replaced till that time comes.
Idk it seems that USA, Russia and China aren't going the bullpup route. I also recall seeing somewhere that France is switching over to the AR platform, but don't quote me on that.
@@johnsteves9158 yeah but the army has talked about changing away from the AR platform to more for the bullpup rifles but it's still being tested with special forces to see what they can to change the training style so that in the future everyone in the army can change to it. Even other military branches are thinking the same thing but right now with the pandemic happened they want to go with the new barrel and new prototype round to change up the game.
@@outlawstar2090 I was really hoping the General Dynamics design would win the NGSW bid along with the polymer ammo, but i understand the military's decision to go with the sig design.
We'll see how weapons evolve over time, but I'd definitely like to see more love given to bullpups.
@@johnsteves9158 yup we shall see
The styer is ergonomically built for the upside down land of Australia, perfect Austrian design
Love everything better about the AR except the stress it puts on my support side shoulder/neck. The Tavor helps in being easier to support, for longer, by nature of its weight balance.
It come down to what you value, I want both guns
A bullpup is an improvement over both rifles and carbines.
I personally really like bullpup rifles due to the ergonomics, the recoil impulse feels a bit easier to handle imo as well.
My service rifle is an AR platform but recreationally I shoot bullpup occasionally.
the main arguing here is price and buildability both great rifles
I like bull-pup designs more than the traditional AR designs, but give me a H&K G36C and I’d be happier about that than any bull-pup design
Im pretty sure one of the benefits of bulpup is by having the reciever behind the pivot point(your hand) its easier to reduce recoil on the gun.
I have an AUG and the other big advantage to a bullpup is I can shoot it one handed much more easily. Since the weight is on the rear, you can shoulder it and there is basically no weight in front of your hand. Makes it easier if you have to do something else with your other hand.
Another advantage of the bullpup (I say this as a British guy who hasn't handled a gun, but based on observation), it looks like it'd be much easier to fire from a vehicle and indoors fighting
Being raised with bullpups for shooting I would say ergonomically I can Reload and manage my weapon much more efficiently but it's more just a training and exposure thing
Everything you described about the bullpup literally is the definition of ergonomically
i like that it looks like a space gun and comes in cool colors.
The Styer AUG and the IWI Tavor are my two favorite bullpups, I love the AUG because of it's history and polymer fire control group, and I love the IWI Tavor because I really like Israeli designs.
I'm going AR all day baby. That reload didn't do it justice