Social facilitation - the key factor that makes Zwift so compelling for me. Zwift racing never fails to give me a good threshold workout (if that's what I need!), while the right group rides keep me interested at endurance etc. As for Strava, it was great the other day when I tackled 3 short hills for my short interval workout - as you say, good motivation to get the effort out, when used correctly.
Very Ned Overend... you hit every point, and more in-depth, he made in a past talk on how he trains. Paraphrased, “Train to segments and group rides” no heart rate monitor, no power meter. If you got talent and experience you can get away with spending less on equipment was my take. Unfortunately if you lack both probably need to invest a bit... good stuff Dylan.
8:11: 415W for 7'31"... with leaderboards like that there'd be no reason for me to even try segments, that's too strong! Thank you for the informative video, Dylan. I try to incorporate 4-6 minute segments into my training on VO2 days and approach them as my intervals.
Agree Dylan! Like all training, I think Strava and how you use it is about discipline. Many times ive been on a recovery ride, feeling good, and ive had a segment flash up, ive got a nice clear road ahead and ive been so tempted to just cane it....but thats not why im out, im out to recover. . . you really have to be sensible and hold it back sometimes, its part of your structured training plan, so stick to it.
I also have the cushion of knowing i'll never, EVER get a KOM on 99% of my local segments because theyre all training grounds for Professional roadies, including several World Tour pros and 2 different Grand Tour winners (1x Tour De France, 1x Vuelta Espana). Which is both humbling and quite the eye opener!
I'm not likely to get a KOM, but Strava can show me how I'M progressing. Pity it doesn't store weight/power/max-min-HR data by date and just uses your latest to calculate everything. Yay for the Elevate plugin.
I love strava, but for specific reasons. 1. To see progress. Like you mentioned, how can you tell if you're getting faster if you can't look at segments and see shorter times. Training with power helps us get faster, but at the end of the day the person who wins has the shortest time (or the most laps). Strava provides a good way to look at this. 2. You have to stick to your workout and not overdo it. Like you mentioned chasing KOM's on easy days is a bad idea 3. I love seeing how I compare to others. IMO all-time results are irrelevant (I'm a MTBer) because trails can change so much. But they don't change significantly year over year. Getting top 10% and 5% for the year when you're not even pushing hard is a good feeling and shows me that training is really paying off. 4. While the segments are great, I still mostly look at how I felt and did for the whole descent (enduro racing). If I can get fast times and crush the whole descent I'm feeling good. It helps me understand the connection between the PE of the workout and how I actually did for racing that I'm actually doing. Since my sport is more full body, just having massive power numbers isn't really helpful as much as being able to ride smooth and fast.
Such a timely video, your body will reward you with cardio endurance and strength when you REST. Training is Hard, it should make you sore, but not hurt. Love the insight!!
Nice, very helpful. . One very recent bad trend is I was starting to lose focus and abandon longer rides in favor of KOM hunting. I was slowly becoming "that guy" you talked about. I wanted to catch myself before I got out of control so here I am. I got 12 kom's in the last 2 weeks and 9 (2 ties) in the last 3 days. I thought this might not be such a good thing for building endurance since it takes such massive herculean efforts to get each K. I'm gonna take some of your advice and dial it back to KOM hunting once a week. Those guys you talk about do exist though. There is one guy in my area who I took a KOM from. Within one hour I saw that he posted another attempt to get it back. He didn't get it that day but he was right back the next morning and got it back. That dude needs to see your video too. I'm nowhere near that mental about K's, but I could sense I could be if I didn't have an intervention. lol
I use Strava Flybys after each race to see where I gained/lost time and if I was getting stronger or weaker as the race progressed relative to others. It is very useful for MTB marathon races.
Like the idea of social facilitation. I use my power meter and Training Peaks. I still upload to Strava. I like the unexpected Strava section Improvement that comes during my scheduled high intensity training. Thanks.
Hey Dylan question for you. On 4:43 you are showing charge of increasing HIT Decreasing HIT and Mixed HIT. How come workout is called Increasing HIT when first box is 4x16 second box is 4x8 and 3rd fox is 4x4 min. So if you work out on Monday 64 minutes on Wednesday 4x8 = 32 minutes and Friday 16 minutes than that's a decrease not an increase.. If you have a min please explain. Thanks much
I had the same question. I believe the research (table) and Dylan's description of same are backwards. Clearly, they are reversed. Clearly 8 sessions of 4x16's is > 8 sessions of 4x4's. Am I correct, @Dylan?
Hey man, you seem pretty smart and well read. I have seen you talking about weight-lifting in the offseason. What about other types of activities such as running and/or swimming? Can swimming and running essentially be used in the offseason as preparation for the season? Richie Port is one of the cyclists doing swimming and he is pretty satisfied with the results swimming has on the body.
Also, learn about a race course you've not ridden before by looking at other racers' Strava files from when they did it last year (or whenever). By taking the time to study other racers' Strava results (especially if they are peers), you can learn a lot about a course, project when you will hit each climb (and how long it should take), how much time you will take between aid stations, and develop a strategy for a race that you've never even been to before. Strava stalking for the win!
I tend to see segment chasing as a kind of fartlek, especially close to cities, where segments tend to be plenty but very short, I would say that five minutes is a very long segment near Stockholm where I live. So I tend to see "do I want to chase segments" as equivalent to "do I want to do fartlek today". And if I want to do that I leave the live segment thing on in my head unit, otherwise I turn it off.
Hi Dylan, first of al thanks for the great indept training vids. This video only raised a question by me. This season i am racing XC every weekend (1 hour threshold effort). Is this standing in my way of improvment because of the extreme fatique build. This also makes it really hard to rest enough, if you also want to train during the week.
There is such a thing as racing too much and there are a number of potential reasons why it could hurt your overall fitness. I'd say have some weekends where you aren't racing.
Great videos. Question im very keen on your response is, best way to do sweet spot training? 1hr to 1.5hrs a week. What percentage of ur ftp should it be. My 1 hr ftp is 248 and im more a sprinter than anything. 71kgs. I only ride 6 to 7hrs a week. 1x sprint session 1.5hr, 1x 1.5hr road race + warm up and cool down, 1x 2.5hr coffee ride and a junk ride which i wanna turn into atleast a 1.5hr sweet spot ride. I have and xc bike and am currently building a cx bike for winter which is about to hit in south Australia. I have a smart trainer and power pedals. Cheers Cam
With all of that in there I would probably just do one sweet spot ride per week and preferably have it at the higher end so 95-100% of FTP. The rest of the rides not including the sprint sessions and racing should be zone 2. Refer to my fast on 6 hours a week video.
This is a great video. I use to do this very thing in my past training plans only to realize it left me to fatigued the next day to really finish my planned workout. Question for you... thoughts on over unders @95~105% or just threshold intervals at 105%, my next race and most of what I ride consist of alot of rolling terrain? Both workouts are close to the same time and sets.
I prescribe over unders to my athletes because it is very close to the kind of effort one might encounter during a race and for rolling terrain this works well.
Hey Dylan, great video. I have an interesting question though. Would riding and racing motocross be good cross training to improve riding technique and possible increase in muscular endurance for mtb racing? Where I am locally we have zero downhill or really technical riding, and was thinking this would be a great way work and practice my skills and have something to do that relates to riding mtb.
surprised there are people who think they can go hard every day… maybe the 2nd day won't be that bad, but by the 3rd or 4th day?? those people might even be better off taking those days completely off the bike instead of fooling themselves that "this will be an easy ride" and then trying to go hard on segments
Strava, Great for training. Motivating yes, But like you said, it’s still too easy to turn an easy ride into a smash fest pissing off friends that don’t have the legs or ruining your own easy day. Indoor trainer rides are easier to control. Testosterone is likely to to take over on the trainer.
Am I the last person who has yet to use Strava? In all seriousness, I have resisted since I know myself well enough that if I start using it, there will be a very slippery slope when all too soon my recovery rides become KOM attempts. I already push too hard too often.
I got a new mic. Let me know what you think of the audio.
Sounds fine! Thanks for asking.
spot on mate !!!
Much better
Much improved!
Another informative show. Thanks.
- also, the new mic was fine ....
By the way, what are your thoughts on Beet Juice ?
Congratulations on 10K! I knew your channel would blow up.
Social facilitation - the key factor that makes Zwift so compelling for me. Zwift racing never fails to give me a good threshold workout (if that's what I need!), while the right group rides keep me interested at endurance etc. As for Strava, it was great the other day when I tackled 3 short hills for my short interval workout - as you say, good motivation to get the effort out, when used correctly.
if its not on strava it never happen!! ever!!
Very Ned Overend... you hit every point, and more in-depth, he made in a past talk on how he trains. Paraphrased, “Train to segments and group rides” no heart rate monitor, no power meter. If you got talent and experience you can get away with spending less on equipment was my take. Unfortunately if you lack both probably need to invest a bit... good stuff Dylan.
8:11: 415W for 7'31"... with leaderboards like that there'd be no reason for me to even try segments, that's too strong! Thank you for the informative video, Dylan. I try to incorporate 4-6 minute segments into my training on VO2 days and approach them as my intervals.
Agree Dylan! Like all training, I think Strava and how you use it is about discipline. Many times ive been on a recovery ride, feeling good, and ive had a segment flash up, ive got a nice clear road ahead and ive been so tempted to just cane it....but thats not why im out, im out to recover. . . you really have to be sensible and hold it back sometimes, its part of your structured training plan, so stick to it.
I also have the cushion of knowing i'll never, EVER get a KOM on 99% of my local segments because theyre all training grounds for Professional roadies, including several World Tour pros and 2 different Grand Tour winners (1x Tour De France, 1x Vuelta Espana). Which is both humbling and quite the eye opener!
I'm not likely to get a KOM, but Strava can show me how I'M progressing. Pity it doesn't store weight/power/max-min-HR data by date and just uses your latest to calculate everything. Yay for the Elevate plugin.
I love strava, but for specific reasons.
1. To see progress. Like you mentioned, how can you tell if you're getting faster if you can't look at segments and see shorter times. Training with power helps us get faster, but at the end of the day the person who wins has the shortest time (or the most laps). Strava provides a good way to look at this.
2. You have to stick to your workout and not overdo it. Like you mentioned chasing KOM's on easy days is a bad idea
3. I love seeing how I compare to others. IMO all-time results are irrelevant (I'm a MTBer) because trails can change so much. But they don't change significantly year over year. Getting top 10% and 5% for the year when you're not even pushing hard is a good feeling and shows me that training is really paying off.
4. While the segments are great, I still mostly look at how I felt and did for the whole descent (enduro racing). If I can get fast times and crush the whole descent I'm feeling good. It helps me understand the connection between the PE of the workout and how I actually did for racing that I'm actually doing. Since my sport is more full body, just having massive power numbers isn't really helpful as much as being able to ride smooth and fast.
A good way to do it is to create your own segment on a road you like and test yourself once a month for example
Such a timely video, your body will reward you with cardio endurance and strength when you REST. Training is Hard, it should make you sore, but not hurt. Love the insight!!
Good video Dylan👍 Keep up the good work👍
Nice, very helpful. . One very recent bad trend is I was starting to lose focus and abandon longer rides in favor of KOM hunting. I was slowly becoming "that guy" you talked about. I wanted to catch myself before I got out of control so here I am. I got 12 kom's in the last 2 weeks and 9 (2 ties) in the last 3 days. I thought this might not be such a good thing for building endurance since it takes such massive herculean efforts to get each K. I'm gonna take some of your advice and dial it back to KOM hunting once a week. Those guys you talk about do exist though. There is one guy in my area who I took a KOM from. Within one hour I saw that he posted another attempt to get it back. He didn't get it that day but he was right back the next morning and got it back. That dude needs to see your video too. I'm nowhere near that mental about K's, but I could sense I could be if I didn't have an intervention. lol
I use Strava Flybys after each race to see where I gained/lost time and if I was getting stronger or weaker as the race progressed relative to others. It is very useful for MTB marathon races.
Like the idea of social facilitation. I use my power meter and Training Peaks. I still upload to Strava. I like the unexpected Strava section Improvement that comes during my scheduled high intensity training. Thanks.
0:10:23: 323w, 131bpm for 34:35
But what about days with good tailwinds? You have to take advantage of those days no matter what...because tailwind days are the days I have a chance.
Hey Dylan question for you. On 4:43 you are showing charge of increasing HIT Decreasing HIT and Mixed HIT. How come workout is called Increasing HIT when first box is 4x16 second box is 4x8 and 3rd fox is 4x4 min. So if you work out on Monday 64 minutes on Wednesday 4x8 = 32 minutes and Friday 16 minutes than that's a decrease not an increase.. If you have a min please explain. Thanks much
I had the same question. I believe the research (table) and Dylan's description of same are backwards. Clearly, they are reversed. Clearly 8 sessions of 4x16's is > 8 sessions of 4x4's. Am I correct, @Dylan?
what are the Active Recovery numbers in Strava, please. example... Active Recovery ( 0-64) 1:45:53 - 50.8% ?
I can create a segment whenever i want. I choose the distance and going to train HIIT there
Hey Dylan, any chance you can do a video on how to structure and get the most bang for your buck on training camps? Love the channel!
Great idea. I'll put that on the list.
Hey man, you seem pretty smart and well read. I have seen you talking about weight-lifting in the offseason. What about other types of activities such as running and/or swimming? Can swimming and running essentially be used in the offseason as preparation for the season?
Richie Port is one of the cyclists doing swimming and he is pretty satisfied with the results swimming has on the body.
Yes, I'm a big proponent of doing activities other than cycling in the off season.
One real important question for you Dylan: did you teach that Jeremiah Bishop character a lesson and take back your Kom or not?
Nope, that segment was from the Croatan 150. I'll get a go at it again next year.
Now backwards hat Dylan... he's still out there trying for it.
@@DylanJohnsonCycling ... the patient hunter.
Great content as always! What's your opinion of using HRV in cycling training?
I think it's a great tool. Still need to do more experimenting with it myself. Perhaps a topic for a future video.
Hey Dylan,
I've started using trainer Road as a structured training program. Can you provide your analysis of their plans?
What would you recommend as a good road bike for someone who’s just beginning? I currently use a heavy mountain bike.
Also, learn about a race course you've not ridden before by looking at other racers' Strava files from when they did it last year (or whenever). By taking the time to study other racers' Strava results (especially if they are peers), you can learn a lot about a course, project when you will hit each climb (and how long it should take), how much time you will take between aid stations, and develop a strategy for a race that you've never even been to before. Strava stalking for the win!
I tend to see segment chasing as a kind of fartlek, especially close to cities, where segments tend to be plenty but very short, I would say that five minutes is a very long segment near Stockholm where I live. So I tend to see "do I want to chase segments" as equivalent to "do I want to do fartlek today". And if I want to do that I leave the live segment thing on in my head unit, otherwise I turn it off.
Hi Dylan, first of al thanks for the great indept training vids. This video only raised a question by me. This season i am racing XC every weekend (1 hour threshold effort). Is this standing in my way of improvment because of the extreme fatique build. This also makes it really hard to rest enough, if you also want to train during the week.
There is such a thing as racing too much and there are a number of potential reasons why it could hurt your overall fitness. I'd say have some weekends where you aren't racing.
Hm, I've never been bothered by segments. I live in Eastern Berlin and all Strava KOM's in my area are way over my abilities.
Great videos.
Question im very keen on your response is, best way to do sweet spot training?
1hr to 1.5hrs a week. What percentage of ur ftp should it be. My 1 hr ftp is 248 and im more a sprinter than anything. 71kgs. I only ride 6 to 7hrs a week. 1x sprint session 1.5hr, 1x 1.5hr road race + warm up and cool down, 1x 2.5hr coffee ride and a junk ride which i wanna turn into atleast a 1.5hr sweet spot ride. I have and xc bike and am currently building a cx bike for winter which is about to hit in south Australia. I have a smart trainer and power pedals. Cheers Cam
With all of that in there I would probably just do one sweet spot ride per week and preferably have it at the higher end so 95-100% of FTP. The rest of the rides not including the sprint sessions and racing should be zone 2. Refer to my fast on 6 hours a week video.
Thanks. I will rewatch it. I really enjoy ur videos. Cheers
I race myself on Strava, not other people's times. I don't know if those other people's times are legit so i don't compete with them.
This is a great video. I use to do this very thing in my past training plans only to realize it left me to fatigued the next day to really finish my planned workout. Question for you... thoughts on over unders @95~105% or just threshold intervals at 105%, my next race and most of what I ride consist of alot of rolling terrain? Both workouts are close to the same time and sets.
I prescribe over unders to my athletes because it is very close to the kind of effort one might encounter during a race and for rolling terrain this works well.
@@DylanJohnsonCycling thank you for the great info Dylan and a great channel
Hey Dylan, great video. I have an interesting question though. Would riding and racing motocross be good cross training to improve riding technique and possible increase in muscular endurance for mtb racing? Where I am locally we have zero downhill or really technical riding, and was thinking this would be a great way work and practice my skills and have something to do that relates to riding mtb.
Yes! Most pro DH riders use motocross as cross training. Even some XC racers for that matter.
🤘
surprised there are people who think they can go hard every day… maybe the 2nd day won't be that bad, but by the 3rd or 4th day?? those people might even be better off taking those days completely off the bike instead of fooling themselves that "this will be an easy ride" and then trying to go hard on segments
Agreed
Some people get a bit depressed when they do a ride get home and see they were a fair way off what some of their friends did for a hill segment etc
Strava, Great for training. Motivating yes, But like you said, it’s still too easy to turn an easy ride into a smash fest pissing off friends that don’t have the legs or ruining your own easy day. Indoor trainer rides are easier to control. Testosterone is likely to to take over on the trainer.
What about creating segments.?
Create segments that fit your training!
Exactly
great sound through my airpods
Am I the last person who has yet to use Strava? In all seriousness, I have resisted since I know myself well enough that if I start using it, there will be a very slippery slope when all too soon my recovery rides become KOM attempts. I already push too hard too often.
I've had a strava for years but only started uploading regularly this year. I was in the same boat as you.
Keep up the awesome content and good luck with the rest of the season!
The challenge trophy a are good on strava... Kinda like getting G on Xbox haha
E-Bikes are crushing segments so these segments are becoming irrelevant.