MEH (A Quick Review) | PRS Sonzera 50 Part 2
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Disappointing but a big improvement over other PRS models.
See Part 1 :
• BUZZ | PRS Sonzera 50 ...
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These are things I get asked about a lot :
Amp Tech Gear Used :
Hakko FX-951 soldering station
Weller SPG 80L soldering iron (chassis work)
Rigol DS1054Z digital oscilloscope
Thsinde 18B+ digital multimeters
Kester 60/40 solder
Below are things that make this channel possible that people don’t usually think about. If any of these companies want to send me new and wonderful toys, I’m open to that. I can’t take free stuff when it comes to the amps I review, etc, but for the stuff below, bribe away!
Microphones/Audio Equipment :
Guitar Amps : Sennheiser e906 and/or Shure SM57 (noted in videos)
Bass Amps : Sometimes a Shure Beta 52, other times just an SM57
Voiceover Bench : sE Audio sE8 (small diaphragm condenser)
Voiceover Streaming : Shure SM57 with shockmount and windscreen
Voiceover Mic Arms : Elgato Wave Mic arms
Guitar Mic Stand : Gator Frameworks short weighted base stand with boom
Mic Cables and Guitar Cables : Mogami/Neutrik
Mic pre : MOTU M2
DAW : Logic Pro X on MacBook Pro 16 running Sonoma 14.0
Plugins : No effects other than level matching/normalization unless a recording
specifically has reverb etc added in post (rare, various Waves plugins)
Monitors : Yamaha HS7s
Monitor Stands : Gator Frameworks Desktop Clamp-On Stands
Monitor Isolation Mounts : IsoAcoustics Iso-Puck Minis
Headphones : Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro (main)
Headphones : Sony MDR-7506 (alternate)
Video Equipment :
Camera : Sony ZVE-10 with SmallRig Cage (main)
Lens : Sigma f2.8 18-50mm (main)
Lens : Sony ZVE10 kit lens (rarely used)
B Camera : Apple iPhone 13 Pro (rarely used)
Tripod : SmallRig 71” with SmallRig Fluid Video Head
Streaming Mount : Elgato Master Mount S with SmallRig Ballhead
Bench Light : SmallRig RC 120D
Bench Light Diffusor : SmallRig Lantern Softbox
Bench C-Stands (light and overhead camera) : Neewer Pro SS Heavy Duty
Streaming Light : SmallRig RC 120B
Streaming Diffusor : SmallRig Parabolic Softbox
Streaming Light Mount : SmallRig 148CM Wall Mount Boom with Triangle Base
Various Other Lights : Neewer LED Panels with Neewer Softboxes
Video Software :
Davinci Resolve 18.6
Paul Leeming LUTs
Adobe Illustrator 28.0
Adobe Photoshop 25.0
Ecamm Live (streaming software)
I said “ac followers” referring to the IRF820s but I meant to say “ac coupled.” Sorry about that.
My small bit of work with the irf820 need a bit of current run thru it to sound good thus a heat sink is a must for me. Just what I have seen .
For a big name company you would think they'd get the top engineers to design their amps.. Is this the same noise source found in most of the PRS MT15?
I haven’t seen an amp that uses IRF820’s are they really worth the extra hassle?
I agree the amp sounds congested and dense really no note separation. Fubbly fuzziness
Love this one (video, not the amp). They've already reworked the Sonzera amp maybe 7 months ago into a different model/version so I think consumers felt "meh" about this old version as well. This one one of the few products where I felt the demos videos didn't mask it's "meh"ness. New versions sounds much better (in videos, who knows in life). Hope one makes its way across your bench sometime, though not TOO soon since they are new!
Great series! Just saved me some major $... you gained a sub
These amps always reminded me of the Peavey Valve King series.
For the cost of these amplifiers the manufacturer should provide a better chassis. This chassis could benefit from a downturned tab on the tube panel at the very least. Full sides and welding would be better.
Thanks for another good evaluation. It makes me want a Bassman that much more.
I had to attempt noise reduction on one of these. I ended up changing a number of plate load resistors for metal film and went for lower gain tubes all the way across. It was only tolerable after all that but out it went. No support from the people who make them, which is why PRS amps are on my DNR list these days. Somehow I acquired a rev. 3 schematic for these things.
“Well executed bad design” is the kiss of death to a musician. I hear nothing in this amp that makes me want to own it.
I was hoping for this review! Thank you.
Thanks Lyle! A appreciate your thoughts
Very educational video sir!
Lyle you are a genius I wish you lived close to me so shipping cost would not be a ton
I wish every county had a true Lyle counter part, i guess once upon a time - they did!
@@Paul-D you're exactly right and engineering teachers dream and every opponents nightmare I believe if I was the owner of any company that engineered any audio devices I would not finalize it until running it by Lyle and compensating him well because sometimes it's not only what you do it's what you know because every change has to be a perfect mathematical equation....... I wish he taught because I would pay to take his course
@@YeetCheifhe is teaching us. If you combine all his videos it is an entire lifetime of experience.
Thanks guys. I’m not a genius by any stretch. I’m methodical though. Which can get you pretty far in this.
I’ve run into some actual electronics geniuses along the way. But they don’t tend to be in this field.
@@PsionicAudio and you was probably their teacher and got bored with them so you decided to take a more musical outlet for your creations of geniusness
Thanks Lyle.I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
PRS MT 100 Mark Tremonti Signature Amp! Today i saw people trying these out youtube and the sound of that amp like the one showing i just don't like the sound of those amps. You take Headfirst his new amp he has out now that amp sounds really good! And build very well and Friedman Runt-50 great sounding amp as well.
Didn't want to piss em off but PRS just came out with a demo of this one vs the HDRX model.
I just recalled your meh review lol
I think the OD could be dramatically improved just changing some of the filter values. Sounds like a lot of low end early and not enough signal being dumped between stages.
I agree. The OD just doesn’t do it on this amp. The clean sounded good.
I was surprised when I saw how this was built, and I know they refreshed the Archon as well as today's MT100 release so I was looking into their amps again.
But they don't seem to be quite there yet in overall build / design for me; thank you for this info!
Same noise issues from a amp I bought but for only $50 from a lady that bought a storage unit ,Its a Kustom 100 DFX same issues with the noise but fine clean ,the best thing about the amp is the 2 12 inch celestion super 65 speakers so at least when the amp dies I can put them in a 4x12 cabinet i have sitting around
I have the 20w Sonzera and I play this as my main practice and gigging amp and it’s had all kinds of buzzy rattly noise and white noise on clean and over drive and my effects loops sounds like a storm cloud when I play my pedals into effects loop even have having a professional work on it. I use this amp on clean channel and run my pedals in front that’s what this is for me and I run it through a separate can to prevent the buzz
They should use LND150 as FXloop buffers. I used them many times as triode equivalent with great results.
interesting only used them as constant current source.
Hope your Autumn is going well down there Lyle. All the best to you and the family chief! 🇨🇦👍
Tested one of these last year and thought that while it sounded pretty decent overall, the noise level was ridiculous and I would not be able to live with it. Would have bought it otherwise but not sure why anyone would release something like that.
I’m shocked that they allowed that mistake to be made a permanent fixture. PRS is a good company.
Perhaps PRS should just stick to guitar making.
Good company, but when they are selling an amp at this low of a price point, you can bet compromises were made along the way.
But none of the issues are caused by cost-saving measures.
One might conclude they just didn’t care.
@@PsionicAudio I’d agree that not directly caused by cost savings (cheap components etc), but indirectly I would argue that they were. It’s highly likely that corners were cut with regards to the engineering (time spent as well as tenure of the engineer) could have been a factor. Or did they really engineer it at all, rather bought a commodity amp from the Chinese marketplace and just make a couple tweaks to make it original. Don’t know. But I do know their higher end models definitely had a more refined tone, and overall design.
All said and done, even the “big 3” classic amps have had their “dogs” as well.
I picked up the Sonzera 20 used for just under 500 before trade and the store let me know if the noise and did recommend it for quiet volume at home but gigging volumes is fine. I would agree with that and the fact that the clean channel is very good. Sits between a Princeton and Deluxe Reverb. When I need to go quiet I go digital through headphones and use similar models of amps so this is a good approximation of tone between amp and digital
I had a Sonzera 20 for about a week that was the same way. Nice clean, but noisy. The dirty channel had a fried tube as well. Like extra crispy fried pre amp tube. I think it was a 2019 model? It went back to the shop and I got a Fender Excelsior. I really liked it but for a 4 year old amp, issues like that should not appear IMO. Not surprised it was poorly engineered as it did feel* nice.
Its the effect loop and reverb circuit i sold mine i had to bias it real low to sell it
Funny you mention about the hum. I had the Archon 100w. You know, the handmade in the USA one that costs quite a penny. Had a similar issue where it always had a constant hum even with all the tone controls and volume controls down. Effects loop implementation in that was kinda poorly done even with their "fix".
Very informative Lyle. I wish i had followed my dreams and worked in electronics. All the math scared me to death and i went into carpentry. I still love learning and fixing my guitars and amps, but your wealth of knowledge shows the details even in proper semiconductor choices. Awesome stuff here 😊
Interesting re the effect loop. I have a Z-Plus that's really noisy with the master wide open, even when the volume is all the way back. Wondering if that might be to do with the effects loop? hmmm. Great vis as ever.
The MT15 is the same way, slightly driven to unusable in just a click.
They just don't make 'em like they used to . . . :)
I always thought this amp sounded terrible. I have the 100 watt Archon, and it does it's thing quite well, but I do hate how they do the loop where it's after the master volume.
I hope you get one of the new 100 watt Tremontis coming across the bench, would like to hear what you think.
Same critic with my PRS MT15. Overdrive is way too much. I wish I didn’t buy that amp.
Good build quality and nice clean otherwise. I can’t understand why everyone praise this amp on other YT channels.
Try lower gain preamp tubes, like 5751. Using a lower gain tube in the PI position (12at7) will also give you a little better sweep out of the volume pot.
Agreed on the MT15 tone. I feel like they were so close to making a legendary amp with that because the build quality seems awesome. At least the specs are killer.
@@b-spot I did and unfortunately it still doesn’t have the bite I want. I am selling it.
honestly my thoughts on the jet city amps too, it's just so mooshy, i use a blackstar ht5 metal head and just run the effects send into the jet city, which has it's quirks, the jet city's channel masters are post-return so i have to turn up the blackstar almost all the way, and it really really hates that lol, it's better than the jet city's preamp at least, i just don't understand it, even with single coils it just is so unpleasant, also oh god at least it doesn't have a constantly noisy effects loop too
I had an Archon 50 (most recent generation) and the effects loop had a pretty good hum on the send. No issue plugging straight into the return. Tried to warranty it with them, they screwed me around saying they couldn’t replicate it. Wondering if they have the same poorly designed mosfet effects loop circuit in that amp like this one, might explain the noise. Really disappointed me because I really liked the amp otherwise.
I had the same exact problem with my 50 watt Archon combo. I thought I had a "lemon" until I went online and found EVERYBODY complaining about the hum on these things. Luckily I was able to return it to the store after only have it for a couple of weeks. It sounded great in every other aspect, but the hum was a dealbreaker that ruined the whole experience of playing it. Such a shame.
Agreed.
I know this is off topic but I was curious if you have ever come across a Tyler Amps jt-14 or 22 (Princeton/deluxe)? I hear great things from some and they sound good but really don’t know what to think as far as build and quality. Either way, Thank you for your videos and the wealth of knowledge you’ve shared with the world!
Thanks!
Yes, I’ve had two Tylers come in. They’re on the FB page. One was a really poorly assembled Weber kit. The other was a Ceriatone amp made by Ceriatone with “Tyler” printed on it at a higher price than the Ceriatone, and marketed as “made in the USA” (Ceriatones are made in Malaysia). Deceptive marketing, not a real amp company. Avoid.
@@PsionicAudio Thank you very much! That’s good to know. Please keep doing what you do sir!
Very mushy sounding to me too. It's way too much gain in channel 2.
Maybe a different tube, like a 12AY7 could tame it down. I haven't had much luck with that and a flawed design.
Do not overlook the 5751 tube, as many guitarists do because its name does not start with "12A".
Meh, perfectly describes PRS for me.
Is it normal to have a little background noise in a vintage Bassman 50 head. I was all original when I got it. I was not operating at the time. I had it gone over by an amp repairman. It was recapped and had a few other parts replaced. It sounds great with the the exception of the slight background noise though the speaker cab at rest off of standby.
Just wondering is the high the noise floor the MOSFETs or the surrounding resistors? These IRF's shouldn't really be noisy and are used in many DIY and Hi-Fi circuits without issues. That said I wouldn't use 'em for FX loop and I can see why you pulled the pin so to speak.
It’s the way they are used in circuit. 1W CFs in a unity gain circuit aren’t noisy. IRF820s used properly aren’t noisy, though there can be capacitance issues.
LND150s would have been a better choice. For those reading along, you can’t just swap them out - LNDs would need a very different circuit to this.
I watched a band doing covers, guitarist using this amplifier. I thought it was generic sounding as well. That too much distortion tone for rock - yet wouldn’t accomplish the goals of metal either
Sounds like EL84s. Kinda looks like it could be from this angle. Bet it's not though
Well i have one and i need you to work on it. Very similar problems
I would just like the clean channel to be quiet. I don't need the loop, Reverb or gain channel.
hmm mine is silent
is this still recommendable at 400? and what other options do we have tho?
Not surprising. That HGTVRX 20 or whatever its called they had on that pedal show sounded like complete hot garbage as well.
I call that and the Line 6 box the HGTV too…. I’m terrible at remembering such things.
Ha! You're wrong, wait a second; I meant to say 'your wrong'. Hope it helps. 😂
These were designed by Doug Sewell?
Lyle - I have a 5150 iconic 15w on my bench (single ended 6L6) that exhibits a similar issue - bad buzz that follows the reverb pot but not affected by any gain or volume pot. Do you have any insight? Or maybe ever had one of these on the bench? Somehow some AC noise is being injected post and I can't find it (it's not heater him I hear that separately)
Sorry, I haven’t had one of those in.
Curiously I sent a clip of the noise to James brown who said it isn't normal and referred me to find the local fender service center. What a joke that was...I'm not convinced those clowns have ever been in an amp.
Do you accept repairs via mail or local only - would love to have you look at it (it's curiosity killing the cat at this point)
Most service centers are ok for warranty replacements. That’s about it…
Do you think digital recreations of old amps are becoming better then “made to a price” modern proper amps.
LOL, no way.
Hard to say, as I haven’t tried the Neural stuff or the latest Fractal flagship. I know a Fender ‘65 Deluxe reverb reissue (tube) blows away the Tonemaster version. But with real tube amps you get a few great sounds vs potentially hundreds of pretty good sounds with modeling at the same price (ish - you’ll need to hear the modeller on stage so sometimes there are additional costs).
I think that’s a decision every player will have to make for themself.
The real issue is why isn’t there market pressure on companies like PRS and Marshall to simply make better tube amps? These things get great reviews no matter how noisy or uninspired.
I mean, how did PRS turn on the prototype and not say “whoa, check out that noise floor - we can’t release this”?
@@PsionicAudioWhat these companies deem acceptable is not what us players deem acceptable...I keep running into hiss in late model amps and it's driving me back to the classics
@@PsionicAudioI tried one of those fender custom reissues recently, the noise floor on that was insane as well, it’s like companies only test with the volume turned up with no regard to how usable the thing is at low- medium, which is the settings most bedroom players are at nowadays
I have a 64 Princeton non reverb that is dead quiet. And an amp that I bonded with, just no bad sounds can come out of it. Recently I got my 82 JCM 800 combo sorted by an incredible amp tech, and I now have 2 amps that cover all the ground my mediocre playing can cover. Oh, and the noise floor on the JCM was bad, but when I got it back, I started realizing how noisy a lot of pedals are. Had to spend some money on upgrades.
You are wrong. Not really. Just helping the channel 😊
I cant believe you said that!!! I am now so totally ENGAGED!!! ;)
Spongy, mushy, congested mids...
its almost like you are describing a glass of red wine instead of a tube amplifier ;)
Well it wasn’t fucking oaky…
lol@@PsionicAudio
Well...at least they're (relatively) cheap.
"What is Indo-jina products for $1000 Alex" ...
he said repeatedly that the build quality was quite high, but that it was badly designed. So that's on the guys in Maryland
After many years of playing I just think most amps pretty underwhelming. Hard to find one's that really sing.
never felt very impressed by PRS, not at the price point
Kinda like their guitars, meh....
I like their guitars.
Any amp that doesn't get you a vintage Marshall tone, is going to be generic, mushy, useless.
paul using ghost builders and slapping his name on it. shame
Someone as arrogant as Paul Reed Smith would be spitting bullets over this . I thought this was great .
Should stick to making guitars.
PRS should stick to producing overrated guitars. No idea why the world went so PRS crazy in the 90s, the guitars are not groundbreaking in any regard.
reminds me of an old blues song - "can't stand your cooking, and you ain't good looking, I'm gone."
I spoke with a guitar store owner in Austin a few years back who was one of the first stores to carry PRS and he said gibsons were pretty poor quality back in the late 80s and early 90s (he used harsher language) but prs consistently delivered instruments that were well built and almost all played great out of the case. He wasn't too happy with them about being forced to carry Korean models to get access to the good stuff but he still carried core models.
PRS makes guitars with beautiful finishes. Some are gorgeous....they're eye candy, nothing more. Well, I take that back, they're too expensive
Nonsense.