Timestamps: 0:00 Lycan's PoE2 Experience 4:30 Class Enjoyment 10:00 Endgame Speed 21:50 Player Skill and Knowledge Debate 26:21 Is PoE2 a Souls-Like? 32:10 Fave Bosses in PoE2 35:30 Games We Play 41:11 GGG's Transparency - Will it Change? 52:13 The Patch and Future of PoE2 1:01:20 Lycan's Profile Picture MASSIVE THANKS TO LYCAN for coming on :)
@@trueKingVikingthat can hold true in any action game, especially when you ratchet up the difficulty to something like “Give Me God of War” and the upper difficulties of DMC. Punishing difficulty isn’t soul’s exclusive, but that specific combat structure is.
i never say anything about difficulty you need to read properly before answering. you see in souls like the main element is the souls you collect and let say you're at a level that you need 100k souls to level up one time and you are at 99 999 souls if you die once your souls are on the floor if you die twice you lost it. Like i said littles mistakee can be devastating. Now take poe 2 you enter a map that have some mecanis like a boss or delirium or ritual ... you got the point. If you die once you loose it just like souls game. of course you can argue that if you play hardcore you loose entire character but the point here no matter the difficulties you choose a little mistake make you loose something important something that non-souls game doesnt have in easy difficulties. so like i said he is wrong and need to play more game genre cause animation and stamina are in so many game that are not souls like.
There’s far more to souls games than stamina mechanics. A bonfire system, unlockable shortcuts, I frames on dodge, hell I’d even say the letter grade level scaling on weapons is a pretty defining thing too.
Considering his multi-hour long Dark Souls video got hundreds of thousands of views where most Souls players agreed with him, shows he knows more than enough to talk about it. He is also right, PoE2 is not a soulslike, it's an ARPG. Despite what people will say and do anyway, it is NOT debatable.
Would be awesome if it were like a soulslike, where the bosses are hard and you don’t get punished for falling, but encouraged to try again and overcome adversity. Poe just forces you to play broken builds to one shot bosses so as to not lose endless hours of progress in endgame.
As a person that does not look up build guides I don't think that they should balance the game around basically pros at the game that's not really a good idea
I mean if you like the game your playing following a build guide isn't that hard especially with maxroll now laying it all out. It actually teaches you more about the game following a guide for a few builds. I did the same thing back in poe 1 and finally gave in now i don't really need guides anymore but I think its perfect because if you don't follow a build you can still probably make it through campaign your just not gonna be able to do all end game content so if you want to be that invested you should want to learn more anyways.
@@ShaddyzZz 95% of players are not in the middle. It's almost certainly a bell curve, because most things are. The real middle is probably 5% of players. Everyone else is on the slopes somewhere or at the extreme ends.
95% of the data are within 2 standard deviations of the center of a bell curve. That’s like 9th grade math, my man. Yes, that’s who it should be balanced around. However, probably 80% of players are going to go look up a build guide that pushes them much further to the right, as sweaty streamers min/max every possible ounce of potential out of a build, toeing the line of exploitation.
The + to skills is so important for casters because it was so important to casters in D2. If people haven't noticed, POE2 is basically D2 modernized, with a dash of POE1 and a new coat of paint.
Yep. And it causes basically same problems with gear system. Attack builds need high tier weapon, high damage weapon leech, accuracy, etc and casters only need +skills.
He could also just stop limiting himself by expecting every game to have a top down camera and learn how to play From Software games. There’s nothing terrible about the camera in souls games, it’s a standard third person camera and I can think of many other games that actually have worse cameras, especially a lot of Devil May Cry style games with fixed cameras where you are constantly getting attacked by off screen enemies that you don’t even have any way of looking at.
@@BasketCase-rr7tx Having preferences is not ''limiting'' onself, if he has already tried the game and he didn't enjoy it why would he force himself to play more of it? There's an argument to be made for him to try some cam mod or something but that's it. He could also ''get used'' to the camera he dislikes, but again, not forcing himself to do something he dislikes is not something anyone can blame him for xD
@@Kross415 It’s not about preferences, he said he has played like 90 minutes of souls games. I had to play demons Souls for like 10 hours before I became a fan, but when I did it changed my life and my entire outlook on video games.
@ But it is, steping out of your comfort zone is fine but forcing yourself to play 10h a game you dislike is 9 time out of 10 not going to change your life, you're an outlier not the rule. In any case, I'm not dying on this hill, he's a grown up man and I'm just giving him the name of a game that fits what he asked for, that's all.
So weird hearing people who don't really play souls-like talk about souls-like. The camera works fine lol And yes, there absolutely is a right and wrong way to use lock-on. You may not personally like the argument, but that doesn't mean you've proved the argument wrong. Lock-on existing doesn't mean you should always use it. Locking on is a tool. Like everything else. There's a right way to use it and a wrong way to use it. Accept it or don't, it is indeed a valid tactic. But I agree 100%, PoE2 is not a souls-like. People saying that don't know what souls-like means.
Yeah, as a souls fan this conversation was pretty annoying to listen too. I also didn’t like the fact that Tri acted like this Lycan guy was an authority on the series. If he wants a discussion with a guy who knows about souls then he should get a content creator on who actually is an expert. Plenty of them are playing this game too.
Watched live, came here to mention i am so happy Lycan clearly drawing a line why poe2 is not a souls-like and "calling" people out on how wrong they are about it.
I'll be the odd person out and say that I don't care as much about the long attack times BUT I don't think that monsters / damage taken / stun / etc. is really taken into proper consideration. If the warrior was immune to stun, had lots of DR%, and/or something else would be helpful. The thing I don't like the most about Warrior is that most other classes can do [almost] everything better than a warrior.
6:00 true story ! I just love the crossbow. I will need to investigate and see if there are different ways of playing it. Gas and explosive grenades are sick but gas grenades seem a bit unreliable and bolt reload seems to not always work. It's like the crossbow is jamming sometimes and you have to hit it against a tree or a rock to start working again :D Gas grenades sometimes don't apply the damage from the explosion also, could not figure out when or why but I see the clouds explode and the enemies take 0 damage on occasion.
Saw the title of this and had to check my own time. Didn't realize I was already over 200+ hours in. Really didn't feel like I was playing that much, lol. A lot of time off camera...
Transparency and honesty are THE things that make GGG a GREAT studio. Conflicts are bound to happen, and both the community and the developers must learn how to resolve them gracefully
I, along with 3 friends of mine, grew up playing Diablo and other arpg and are also obsessed with souls games (thousands of hours on every title, one friend I had to peel away from DS3 to give poe2 a try). I played through the poe2 campaign 3 separate times with each of them individually after I had already beat the campaign myself. It may not be a “souls like” game by some definitions, but the number of times I was explaining something to my friends and to simplify what I was trying to explain by saying “like a souls game” was off the charts. I was saying it was very 5 minutes for days and every thing I tried to explain by saying that was understood immediately by my friends. Not once did I ever say “like a Diablo (or any other arpg) game”.
They really need to scale the hp and def of monsters more with the map tiers. Having only the monster damage scale makes the focus, kill them faster or be killed faster. Instead of the monsters being harder to kill. The fact that if you die it's always in an instant is a very binary. Theres very few times when you are fighting to survive, like one does in early game. I think damage in general for both characters and monsters gets way more focus than the survivability of both.
39:50 Sid Meier does not work on Civ since Civ 1. His name was put on his games when Dev-Names mattered (in the 90s) so Micropose could sell more of his games. Today its more of a tradition and a nod to what he has done in the past. I think to remember that he had some kind of role in Civ 4, but not even as a dev in the usual sense. More as an embessador. Plus he is a introvert. The decision to put his name on the box wasnt his. :)
I think players are terrified not to kill the boss in 5 seconds because of the loss potential in endgame. The longer the boss lives the bigger chance you have to lose progression. Everything can be tuned by the player to accommodate map difficulty and customize your own game play but still sometimes you’ll have no idea why your staring at a death screen lol
@BasketCase-rr7tx in which case you do lose that progress. Its happened to me. Most ive lost at once was 250k souls. That was almost a whole level at the time.
Best part of this pod is definitely the take on devs on social media and all this new trend of 10 thousands platforms that make no sense and only care about drama and criticism agree 1000%!
just figured out you can destroy the pedestal the chimera lands on. Only did it to one because i accidentally knocked it down. It stunned the beast so I could get some hits in with my warrior.
Yeah, that's the intended mechanic for fighting him. Overall, I don't find him that bad. That said, he does have an annoying tendency to land on one of the three buildings and right away take off again. I'm wondering if that's a bug or intended. If he didn't do that, then you'd get to hit him more frequently.
Mace = slow and stunning Flail = casting and attacking together Sword = combos and bleeding Axes = about the same speed as maces but ramps with rage(which might offer speed modifiers somehow with the rage) Spears = super long range and high speed or with a focus on impale.
I think the crossbow has been the clunkiest and most unenjoyable thing i have ever experienced in arpgs. Idea is cool and i would love to play merc but the reload system is a somehow bad.. it is so slow and sometimes bugged. I hope they do something about it. Grenades work fine with the cooldowns.
its crazy how people see things so differently. crossbow to me is definitely feeling unintuitive in design. the reload and even the bolt swap just dont feel fluid
Did you play with WASD? Cause it feels like shit on old mouse and keyboard style. The characters rotation speed is so fucking slow and you cant fire until you finish rotating.
Grenades are OP in the endgame. Literally clearing screens of breach monsters with flash grenades. Probably spent 500+ divines on the build so far though.
It would be nice if Tri could get a content creator who’s an actual expert on the souls games on the podcast. That way they could have a more nuanced and level headed conversation about this topic. Plenty of souls content creators have also been playing PoE2 so it shouldn’t be hard to get one on.
57:28 Exsanguinate is actually in the game as a wand skill. Same with Soulrend that is only available as a staff skill. I doubt we'll get them as regular skill gems, which is really sad.
My first to maps was merc but not using grenades. The harshest was the constant click click click or miss firing and then you go back to firing. Was pretty easy. My storm weaver is stalled in act three in the city with the angry lady boss. It’s been faster but until now, no challenge. I guess I had more fun on merc for thinking vs just screen clearing. Still loads of fun over all.
The game isn’t a souls like but the developer has said they took inspiration from souls, which is where the confusion is. It’s also not just the dodge roll, it’s the fact that enemies spawn when you die which is also something they said they took form souls games as it’s not a traditional thing in ARPG’s.
The things that annoys me the most in the PoE 2 combat is just that the immunity frames from the dodge roll doesnt work for AOEs. It's specially annoying when Count Ogham decides to drop the wolf on you and you can't immunity frame it because the AOE is too large for your +0%/10% move speed character, or when you dodge backwards once to take a breath and possibly recharge the ES or something but Black Jaw decides to do an impossibly large Cone AOE in front of him and one shots you because no matter where you dodge you will be inside his cone AOE.
You don’t need movement speed boots to dodge the count. Perfectly doable with zero. You just have to run a couple steps before rolling. It just punishes roll spam
@@Hatchy32 Im pretty sure I tried several times walking and dodging at last minute and you do get clipped at the very edge of the AOE. I might be wrong on the 10% move speed tho cause I just recently started making new characters always using move speed boots but I know for sure 0% is almost undoable specially if you were spamming an attack and have to immediately wait for the animation of the attack to finish to start moving your normal speed. Regardless the point is more about how the dodge roll doesnt give immunity frames on dodge rolls and its very possible to get yourself in situations are undodgeable.
I reach lvl 92 in mercenary witchhunter gas grenades and stopped because it took me mins to kill boss and gas grenades roll gas grenades roll continuous for mapping isn't fun for me lol
You mean you were dying like crazy right? That and lvl92 is the first level where T15s actually give shit Xp. Your post is strange... Any seasoned poe player knows that most people quit at 91-93 for very specific reasons and not for the reasons you post... Yea..
@ most gamers are new to POE don’t act so stuck up. Mapping was easy it’s just roll grenade roll grenade. It’s the bosses where it lacks any dmg. You probably a broke POE player with less than 30divs in his build and getting outplayed by newer POE players. Made a Gemling and having more fun lvl 97 now scrub
@@PinoyZo1 ye keep thinking that nab. Keep playing your copy and paste broken ctap while thinking you're the shit until the nerf hammer falls. People like you are the first that cry on reddit after each nerf. People that are at 97 while being complete scrubs:P
@ You've already said that clown. Look above at your own comment:D I don't think I've had less than 100 exalts/divines at the end of the first month of any POE league since 2012. Keep coping scrub. An keep copy and pasting builds..
I think the biggest problem concerning the powercurve/combat is that if they make the combat in the endgame as interesting as the early game for good players, it will be superhard to get anywhere on SSF or just players with bad builds. SSF will need much more help (crafting or targetable farming).
Is there a moment where currency drops and you don't want to pick it up ? Picking up currency, gold and league related items automatically should be the norm, mostly because if you die you loose all the loot, even exalts and divines. Or at least there should be a way where you are able to go back and pick up the loot that you already got even if you can't complete the map anymore.
06:06 I actually like the merc, Im pushing through endgame with him since yesterday. I like being a Rambo commando. The crossbow may be jank and buggy sometimes, but the overall gameplay is solid in my eyes.
You should Try D2R because it has Controller support and they changed other options for how the controls work, where you can instant cast instead of selecting first etc. The game has been seriously updated with D2R and it's better than ever.
Yeh. Actually plays better with controller than it ever did with MnK thanks to the instant cast. My first reaction was ”why didnt i have this back in the early 2000s” lol.
SSF player here - I didn't level with crossbow, but used bow until I got to around lvl 38 then transitioned. Crossbow feels amazing once you get into Cruel and have a decent dps weapon. Play galvanic or explosive and it feels amazing in end game - although there is a bug where it will refuse to fire, which can get annoying tbh. I have levelled Merc (Witch hunter), Ranger (Deadeye) and Monk (Invoker) all to test different end game builds using crossbow. Stick with it, it's worth.
The campaign kinda plays like a souls game when you have no gear, but later on you're just killing stuff within 10 seconds again. So they probably just wanted to make the power spike more obvious I guess, but yeah it definitely doesn't apply to the whole game and calling the bosses "souls-like" doesn't make sense at all
i cant stand crossbows in most games, however, i bought a pillar of caged god and the rage uniques at lvl 1 and just destroyed everything on my merc. no need for a cross bow xD feels like a monk and i love it. gemling stat stacking is def OP
The worst thing from my point of View, (warrior pov) is that scaling is wrong. There is a node for warriors that give “1% increased damage Per 15 strengte”. The Dex tree has a “1% Attack speed per 15 Dex”.. 30% Attack speed is Way more valuable than 30% increased damage. Its NOT “more damage”. Same with other stats like cast speed. Which is available on like 5 different items? 2x rings, neck, staff and shield thingy? Warriors get it on gloves and weapon. So just seems like we have less access to stats that Will scale as crazy as other classes ? Lets not even talk about ES scaling
I don't think the ES scaling is that bad, personally. The overflow from Meditate and Grim Feast... that's stupid. But that's those things, not the core ES mechanic. The way I see it, it is more than armour and what goes with it needs to scale more. If ES was gutted to Armours level, you'd just have two things that feel bad. Well, three, because the evasion guys would get killed by certain AoEs or just inevitable bad luck. Really, the "warrior" just gets hosed in every way. Long animations parts of which you can't apply skill/attack speed to. Gear that imposes the biggest movement penalties, so you can't get out of the way of things as easily, and this is coupled with skills that take longer if you move slower. A defense that works the least when you need it most, and only against physical, without a back-up layer. Lack of ability to bounce back from a hit nearly as well/fast as ES can (tiny amounts on on hit, and mace is slow; drain life is phys portion only and slow, hp regen nodes are kind of weak for incombat, flasks cap low). Nodes that make their attacks even slower. Lots of skills that want prep before they do much. 1h weapons do garbage damage, need shield for survival, so everyone feels pushed into Giant's Blood + shield. And so on. Basically, worst defense, worst QoL, worst feeling offense.
If the combat stayed as slow and "meaningful" in the endgame as it is in the early campaign, it would get boring&cumbersome pretty quickly. Also there wouldn't really be same kind of feel of character progression. I don't think it needs fixing, as long as there is enough build diversity and interesting stuff to do in endgame.
Most players are saying they prefer the campaign. Poe1 loses 70% of its player base a month after a new league drops. People like actual gameplay, I don’t see how removing almost all the real combat gameplay is “slow and cumbersome”
@@RathVantas I have mostly seen complaints about endgame being too shallow, which it for sure is. Not so much about the speed of it. If you want to keep the game slow paced all the way through, then i think the only solution is to make it more souls-like and take a lot of power away from the player. I know i wouldn't want that, but i'm not speaking for everybody. Time will tell what will happen.
but isn't that the devs vision of PoE2. More accessible, slower and more methodical combat, boss telegraphed mechanics and dodge roll to avoid the mechanics. Which is why PoE1 is not getting replaced by PoE2 but instead co-existing with it. It's meant to cater to different playerbase within the ARPG space. Similar to WoW classic and WoW retail or Old School RuneScape and Runescape. Both are MMORPG with different gameplay pacing.
@@RathVantas I don’t know anyone that plays any RPG for longer than a month unless they don’t have enough time to play and still haven’t completed their personal goals… a month is a long time per season to play…
turning path of exile into an action game is not a difficult prolem to solve. Make animations that activate for every attack type, whether it be the enemy being hit by normal attacks staggering them, behing hit by heavy attacks knocking them back. Then simply add more hp to everything and make damage more reasonable example, you can only do 50 damage on some skills, then you charge them up and that is how you get the damage the skill has as it levels. Then with skills that don't charge, hitting them multiple times makes the damage go up somehow. Literally implementing just this paragraph would get rid of making the end game a one shot fest, the devs just dumb.
Im a souls vet, beat em all. Poe2 is my first arpg ever. I'm playing merc in maps loving life. I didn't follow any build guide, don't trade, and I'm sure my tree isn't the best, but I think playing through souls games made other games easier to approach. I'm also on console. The game is hard yes but not so much so it can't be overcame. I've found a good amount of currencies, a chunk of uniques that I'm going to use on a monk playthrough... I'm loving this game so far, almost 120 hours in already.
I think the problem is that the difference between Trading and SSF players is huge. If you make the end game harder it could feel better for traders but it will become a nightmare for SSF players. I think a part of the problem is that the equipement is way too strong right now. And the crafting system is too rng based. That means SSF players can never get equipement as strong as traders and the game feels much harder for them. So I would say: if you love difficulty, just play SSF 😅
Boss swings and punishment for getting hit and gamefeel matter more for feeling "souls-y" than most player-side mechanics, and there are lots of Soulsy similarities there compared to other action games. Big, delayed, turning swings that follow you until the last moment, and the multihits that stun you once and finish you off. From that perspective, PoE2 feels nothing like DMC or Bayo, haha. The lack/inclusion of stamina doesn't change how the game feels to play moment-to-moment. Otherwise, Monster Hunter and Soulsgames would be the closest siblings, and... y'know. Not really.
Ngl, if you cant debate vs the massive heat from your design choices being grilled on by your playerbase, you should really reconsider whether youre making good decisions. The fact that it takes 3 years for GGG to listen about QoL and other major issues is just straight up bad. If Jonathan or someone else higher up runs away because they cant handle their design decisions being criticised its their problem not ours. Im here to play a good game not a nanny
Personally I like being OP end game, it may be a hot take but I like to test out different builds and swap weapons around through different characters, personally act 3 in the past is always a struggle for me because my build isn’t that online yet but it is really satisfying getting past that then getting my build online and it feels really rewarding and if whatever build I make is unintentionally nerfed due to some other very powerful interactions then it just feels really really bad currently I’m testing out melee storm weaver with the every hit shocks and every hit chills while using the heralds without having to use oposing infusion feels really good and I would hate for it to be nerfed unintentionally.
33:22 I chose the mod that adds a blood beam turret thing that rotates and because this game has no Z axis it will LOOK like it shoots overhead if it's on a higher level than you but oh no... it nearly killed me twice because I thought i would be safe going under the beam... silly me
I've been having the most fun with the merc/crossbow, personally. But I didn't go grenades. I pretty much beelined for reload and attack speed nodes, and went with a Rapid Fire build, though I use Galvanic Shards for trash mob clearing. With the Witchhunter ascension. It's been great, running around with a machine gun and an automatic shotgun. Mace, on the other hand, feels like crap. It just doesn't belong with pretty much everything else the game does.
I don't get that bit about map levels. I could very easily get to being able to do level 10 maps with a new character. And it isn't skill. I'm not playing meta builds. All I need is the waystones to drop. If they do that, I'm doing stuff closer to my level, which gets me xp, which means I level pretty quickly, and it wouldn't be an issue getting to high level waystones. But the freaking waystones have to drop. And they don't. Which forces me to do maps below what I'm capable of.
I don't think mechanical skill matters that much for new characters, so much as game knowledge. I can breeze through stuff with my merc on SSF not so much because I'm skilled. I lack the reflexes for that. Rather, because I know what nodes to go for, what I want in my weapon, when something isn't working so respec time, what the boss will do and how to be counteract it, and so on. It's 90% knowledge.
People call Outward a souls-like too. All because of the dodge roll. Yeah, it's annoying lol "This is a crappy souls-like, why is the combat so janky??" Because it's not a souls-like, doofus.
Ammo merc is even worse than warrior. Atleast warrior is trying to do something 😅 merc just standing there with empty clip while im trying to shoot the damn thing. Nades works fine but ammo with reload system is horrible.
@dondrayar5847 1st episode made me not want to continue (and my wife). Compared to proper anime Japanese series/movie I find Arcane to be bad and too western/US influenced.
They should put out acts every new league and to balance things out for the end game, create maps negative tiers to level up until you get to tier 1 and as they add a new act, they could remove some negative map tiers. Also, as it is right now you get two points for the atlas tree every 10 tier map, with the introduction of negative tiers, make it one point every 10 tiers until you have all acts out.
Having played both I don’t think it is. Other than dodge I’m not seeing it. However I think Eldon ring is still my favorite game of all time and I’ve played it through over ten times with various weapons. Poe2 having tons of bosses that are enjoyable is another comparison. If Poe had a block mechanic then yeah I’d say they’re very much the same in that way. As much as I like souls games I hate dragon fights and colossal fights. Also as much as I agree crossbow needs work I however love that class more than any other. High velocity rounds downs bosses in like 5 hits and fragment rounds destroys groups in hit plus herald of ash and boom groups die and you never stop running.
Ive never found myself going oh, this feels like Dark Souls. Diablo definitely. Is it the dodge roll, the difficulty? I just dont see it. I wish the lore was easier to digest though, maybe thats where it feels the most Souls-like. The lore is a jumbled up mess of npcs and bloodlines and gods, and its all over the place even in its own timeline.
This is arpg. Not a souls game. Sure there is tuning to be made.. surely not easy to balance. But yes, you should feel like a god and trash mobs should be melting. Bosses should not be one shotted except if you have played a character hundreds of hours then it is deserved and your character should be a godlike being.
It is a souls-like. There's so much argument over what makes something a souls-like because it's not 1 thing that makes something a souls-like, it's a degree based on weights. The weights include dodge rolling, emphasis on boss fights, relative slowness in combat, relatively higher difficulty, and an emphasis on strategic real-time combat. These are weighted in order of what I just listed, or something close to that order. A game needs a high enough weight to be considered souls-like, just one of those things aren't enough. But POE 2 includes all of those things, full stop. Sorry dude, I get it we want people to stop comparing every game to the souls genre and it's getting annoying, but the fact is there's a trend happening in the industry where souls-like is pretty popular, so of course... games are going to be made with those things in mind, and we have genres for a reason.
God of War is a soulslike! Resident Evil is a soulslike! Devil May Cry is a soulslike! Ocarina of Time is a soulslike! You people are insufferable. This is what you sound like. This is what you are. He listed multiple points, not one. Path of Exile 2 is an ARPG, not a soulslike. Souls gamers are so brainrotted they unironically call games that came out before Dark Souls 1 soulslikes. It's an Action. Role. Playing. Game...Go Away.
I do think POE 2 reminds of Souls games, but sure it is not souls like. The slow pace, the animations from bosses and you dodging through them... All that came from Dark Souls. I would easily say it is closer to dark souls than devil may cry. DMC is about making combos, and sure you read enemies animations, but it is not the biggest part of that game. Guild Wars 2 has been making some live streams talking very openly about their design choices. They are not like POE devs, but they are kinda close to it. The takes from Lycan are very extreme, and honestly, it does sound like he makes videos essays. Not all utuber that do these videos are like that, but there are lots of them that love to say very strong opinions like the camera of darks souls is absolute garbage (it is not that bad), or arcane season 2 is horrible, or POE 2 is NOTHING like darks souls (not true neither wtf).
Having played both I don’t think it is. Other than dodge I’m not seeing it. However I think Eldon ring is still my favorite game of all time and I’ve played it through over ten times with various weapons. Poe2 having tons of bosses that are enjoyable is another comparison. If Poe had a block mechanic then yeah I’d say they’re very much the same in that way. As much as I like souls games I hate dragon fights and colossal fights.
I really hope they don't just turn poe 2 into poe 1's combat speed. People have poe 1 for that. They should make poe 2 it's own game. We don't need the same game with better graphics. If they do then why does poe 2 even exist?
sadly the devs in the last livestream/interview said the endgame speed will stay, because players need to feel powerful by the end. I was really hoping poe2 would be much different than poe 1 and have actual combat to engage in even in endgame instead of zoom around hit 1 button blow up the screen or die in one hit to an explosion
It's not just PoE1 players. PoE1 never hooked me, but I'm loving PoE2. I don't want the end game to be some 5 minute boss fight slog. The point of an ARPG is to get galaxy strong and blast things. I'd be fine if the transition were a bit more smoothed out but at some point I want to be clear-the-room-with-a-machine-gun strong.
That is the point of ARPG to you. I like power progression in ARPG but not to that extent. There isn't just one type of playerbase in ARPG A good example is WoW retail and WoW classic or Old School RuneScape and Runescape. Both are MMORPG but they attract very different player within the MMORPG space. Well that's the reason why PoE1 is not being replaced by PoE2. It's meant to offer a different gameplay experience. I doubt many like 5 minute boss fight as well but that's taking it to the extreme. How about a boss fight that last close to a minute? A boss at least be able to do it's mechanic. Else why add dodge roll and make boss ability be telegraphed.
Yeah, they didn't say they wanted a boss fight to take 5m. But 1-3 I believe were the numbers tossed around. Now, personally, I wouldn't want 3m either, as that's far too long of a fight chock full of one shot or near one shot mechanics. Especially with how horrible bad the odds are of getting a gear upgrade in the game, so you can't exactly go farm gear to fix those issues. Just farm currency so you can buy the gear from someone else. Because that's why you play one of these games... to buy gear from other players.
God Lycan is so cringe for talking about the stupid Bathesda design document comment. Its a brain rotted opinion that people hold onto to feel validated when they are just hyper focusing on details that don't paint the whole picture. CRRRRIINGE
Someone tell GGG, because they literally sponsored a IronPineapple video. A channel all about Souls-like games. That said, Fromsoft games are not nearly as harsh when it comes to punishing failure. While the names differ, both stamina and mana are a replenishing resource that dictates your action economy, and if you're playing a warrior you very much have to consider animation timings. Once we get retaliation skills to pair with the active block mechanic, we will even be able to parry bait our way through.
Waiting for the moment this "DS games need skill" bullcrap stops. DS games need knowledge and patience. Nothing else. Ye zoomers cant play them but i sure as hell can and i am NOT a skilled gamer...
They surely barrowed a lot of souls (Elden ring specifically) visuals,abilities,boss difficulty and similarity and mechanics. People aren’t saying it randomly without something to reference it. It’s definitely a different game but a lot was barrowed.
PoE2 is not a souls like "right now" the idea to slow the game down is to make it SOULS LIKE. Lycan wanting to slow the game down and rely more heavily on dodge roll and stuff is flat out souls like, Lycan is wrong, as someone who loves and has completed more than once every game made by Fromsoftware. This is not an "action game" this is an isometric arpg which is not designed for insanely slow combat (slow in the point that you are forced to engage enemies even after hundreds of hours of investment.) To add, bayonetta combat is fast as hell and the dodging isn't a slow clunky dodge. The dodge in poe2 and dark souls damn near feel the same speed and the animations almost look identical.
Lycan has no idea wtf he is talking about with Arcane season 2. That shit transcended to high art. He's probably mad about Caitlyn being gay or some shit just based on his Veilguard immediate disdain.
Well, Veilguard is bad on so many levels. About the only things worth praising are the environments and the hair physics. Combat is mid at best. And the writing is garbage tier, while it breaks a bunch of lore from the pre-existing games. If the game wasn't DA, it wouldn't have garnered much attention at all, being as lackluster (or mid if you feel generous) as it was. Now, I don't know what people are saying about Arcane 2 and I haven't watched it yet myself. But that that writer guy felt the need to go defend his work likely means there is a bunch of criticism being thrown at it.
Worst interview ive heard so far. So many opinions that were very far out there. Also Talkative ive noticed that you always agree with everyone on almost every view. If you keep agreeing with everyone how can us the viewers actually tell what your opinions are other than what everyone else says. This is like the 7th video ive noticed you agreeing with most everything someone says. I dont hate you Im just giving some criticism. Love most of your videos though.
@@Ohnonono123 Hey, just giving criticism. Without it you dont learn from mistakes. Also he doesnt have to take my opinion seriously. Its just what I was thinking from what I was watching.
such a weird take. The point of interviewing someone is to hear their opinions. Youre calling this the worst interview because.... the interviewee doesnt have opinions that align with your own, and the interviewer doesn't try to talk over them? You dont want an interview, man, you want an echo chamber...
@@gegegoogoogaga I didnt mind the one guest but I like back and forth agreements and disagreements and I only ever see agreements in these videos and its not constructive. Its like(Dude I like this one thing. Oh yeah I do too) (Dude I love this one thing, Oh yeah I do to.) and theres no large explinations of why Talkative agrees. Its like he agrees because they said they like or dislike what they just said. Again, I dont hate you Talkative I just have some dislikes towards these podcasts Maybe the solution is that Talkative needs to give some opinions along with the guest opinions instead of only letting them give theres all the time. And maybe its just something wrong with me because Im expecting to hear opinions from both sides equally and I mostly only hear from the guest which is probably what Talkative was going for. If so then I just wont toon into these as much anymore.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Timestamps:
0:00 Lycan's PoE2 Experience
4:30 Class Enjoyment
10:00 Endgame Speed
21:50 Player Skill and Knowledge Debate
26:21 Is PoE2 a Souls-Like?
32:10 Fave Bosses in PoE2
35:30 Games We Play
41:11 GGG's Transparency - Will it Change?
52:13 The Patch and Future of PoE2
1:01:20 Lycan's Profile Picture
MASSIVE THANKS TO LYCAN for coming on :)
27:29 "It's far closer to Devil May Cry and Bayonetta."
It's nothing like those games it's way closer to Souls games.
Thanks for having me on. Was a really good chat!
Souls likes are known for how devastating a simple mistake can be not animation and stamina you need to play more game genre cause you are wrong
@@trueKingVikingthat can hold true in any action game, especially when you ratchet up the difficulty to something like “Give Me God of War” and the upper difficulties of DMC. Punishing difficulty isn’t soul’s exclusive, but that specific combat structure is.
i never say anything about difficulty you need to read properly before answering.
you see in souls like the main element is the souls you collect and let say you're at a level that you need 100k souls to level up one time and you are at 99 999 souls if you die once your souls are on the floor if you die twice you lost it. Like i said littles mistakee can be devastating.
Now take poe 2 you enter a map that have some mecanis like a boss or delirium or ritual ... you got the point. If you die once you loose it just like souls game.
of course you can argue that if you play hardcore you loose entire character but the point here no matter the difficulties you choose a little mistake make you loose something important something that non-souls game doesnt have in easy difficulties.
so like i said he is wrong and need to play more game genre cause animation and stamina are in so many game that are not souls like.
There’s far more to souls games than stamina mechanics. A bonfire system, unlockable shortcuts, I frames on dodge, hell I’d even say the letter grade level scaling on weapons is a pretty defining thing too.
Considering his multi-hour long Dark Souls video got hundreds of thousands of views where most Souls players agreed with him, shows he knows more than enough to talk about it. He is also right, PoE2 is not a soulslike, it's an ARPG. Despite what people will say and do anyway, it is NOT debatable.
Would be awesome if it were like a soulslike, where the bosses are hard and you don’t get punished for falling, but encouraged to try again and overcome adversity. Poe just forces you to play broken builds to one shot bosses so as to not lose endless hours of progress in endgame.
As a person that does not look up build guides I don't think that they should balance the game around basically pros at the game that's not really a good idea
Yeah. Nor the bottom 1-2%. Balance it for the middle, the 95ish precent in the middle. Thats where the majority of players are, IMO.
I mean if you like the game your playing following a build guide isn't that hard especially with maxroll now laying it all out. It actually teaches you more about the game following a guide for a few builds. I did the same thing back in poe 1 and finally gave in now i don't really need guides anymore but I think its perfect because if you don't follow a build you can still probably make it through campaign your just not gonna be able to do all end game content so if you want to be that invested you should want to learn more anyways.
@@ShaddyzZz 95% of players are not in the middle. It's almost certainly a bell curve, because most things are. The real middle is probably 5% of players. Everyone else is on the slopes somewhere or at the extreme ends.
@@ShaddyzZz You need to go back to school, you have no idea about what your saying. lol
I do get what you're trying to say though hahahaha
95% of the data are within 2 standard deviations of the center of a bell curve. That’s like 9th grade math, my man. Yes, that’s who it should be balanced around. However, probably 80% of players are going to go look up a build guide that pushes them much further to the right, as sweaty streamers min/max every possible ounce of potential out of a build, toeing the line of exploitation.
The + to skills is so important for casters because it was so important to casters in D2. If people haven't noticed, POE2 is basically D2 modernized, with a dash of POE1 and a new coat of paint.
Yep. And it causes basically same problems with gear system. Attack builds need high tier weapon, high damage weapon leech, accuracy, etc and casters only need +skills.
It seems like you could be interested in ''No Rest for the Wicked'' that's the closest game to a Souls-like with a different camera.
I was heavily turned off by survival mechanics and town building there.
He could also just stop limiting himself by expecting every game to have a top down camera and learn how to play From Software games.
There’s nothing terrible about the camera in souls games, it’s a standard third person camera and I can think of many other games that actually have worse cameras, especially a lot of Devil May Cry style games with fixed cameras where you are constantly getting attacked by off screen enemies that you don’t even have any way of looking at.
@@BasketCase-rr7tx Having preferences is not ''limiting'' onself, if he has already tried the game and he didn't enjoy it why would he force himself to play more of it?
There's an argument to be made for him to try some cam mod or something but that's it. He could also ''get used'' to the camera he dislikes, but again, not forcing himself to do something he dislikes is not something anyone can blame him for xD
@@Kross415 It’s not about preferences, he said he has played like 90 minutes of souls games. I had to play demons Souls for like 10 hours before I became a fan, but when I did it changed my life and my entire outlook on video games.
@ But it is, steping out of your comfort zone is fine but forcing yourself to play 10h a game you dislike is 9 time out of 10 not going to change your life, you're an outlier not the rule.
In any case, I'm not dying on this hill, he's a grown up man and I'm just giving him the name of a game that fits what he asked for, that's all.
So weird hearing people who don't really play souls-like talk about souls-like. The camera works fine lol
And yes, there absolutely is a right and wrong way to use lock-on. You may not personally like the argument, but that doesn't mean you've proved the argument wrong.
Lock-on existing doesn't mean you should always use it. Locking on is a tool. Like everything else. There's a right way to use it and a wrong way to use it. Accept it or don't, it is indeed a valid tactic.
But I agree 100%, PoE2 is not a souls-like. People saying that don't know what souls-like means.
some of these souls gamers have never played a monster hunter and it shows
Yeah, as a souls fan this conversation was pretty annoying to listen too. I also didn’t like the fact that Tri acted like this Lycan guy was an authority on the series. If he wants a discussion with a guy who knows about souls then he should get a content creator on who actually is an expert. Plenty of them are playing this game too.
@@PunishedDad Very different games. Monster Hunter is better without a lock on, but I pretty much always use Lock on in souls games.
Watched live, came here to mention i am so happy Lycan clearly drawing a line why poe2 is not a souls-like and "calling" people out on how wrong they are about it.
People want it to be a souls like and im happy GGG isn't listening to them
I'll be the odd person out and say that I don't care as much about the long attack times BUT I don't think that monsters / damage taken / stun / etc. is really taken into proper consideration. If the warrior was immune to stun, had lots of DR%, and/or something else would be helpful. The thing I don't like the most about Warrior is that most other classes can do [almost] everything better than a warrior.
6:00 true story ! I just love the crossbow. I will need to investigate and see if there are different ways of playing it. Gas and explosive grenades are sick but gas grenades seem a bit unreliable and bolt reload seems to not always work. It's like the crossbow is jamming sometimes and you have to hit it against a tree or a rock to start working again :D Gas grenades sometimes don't apply the damage from the explosion also, could not figure out when or why but I see the clouds explode and the enemies take 0 damage on occasion.
Saw the title of this and had to check my own time. Didn't realize I was already over 200+ hours in. Really didn't feel like I was playing that much, lol. A lot of time off camera...
These are great for me at work. To be honest if you can get even longer talks, that would be great lmao.
8 hour interviews when?!
Transparency and honesty are THE things that make GGG a GREAT studio. Conflicts are bound to happen, and both the community and the developers must learn how to resolve them gracefully
I, along with 3 friends of mine, grew up playing Diablo and other arpg and are also obsessed with souls games (thousands of hours on every title, one friend I had to peel away from DS3 to give poe2 a try). I played through the poe2 campaign 3 separate times with each of them individually after I had already beat the campaign myself. It may not be a “souls like” game by some definitions, but the number of times I was explaining something to my friends and to simplify what I was trying to explain by saying “like a souls game” was off the charts. I was saying it was very 5 minutes for days and every thing I tried to explain by saying that was understood immediately by my friends. Not once did I ever say “like a Diablo (or any other arpg) game”.
They really need to scale the hp and def of monsters more with the map tiers.
Having only the monster damage scale makes the focus, kill them faster or be killed faster. Instead of the monsters being harder to kill.
The fact that if you die it's always in an instant is a very binary. Theres very few times when you are fighting to survive, like one does in early game.
I think damage in general for both characters and monsters gets way more focus than the survivability of both.
Would have liked late game to be more like nm act 1 to 3
39:50 Sid Meier does not work on Civ since Civ 1. His name was put on his games when Dev-Names mattered (in the 90s) so Micropose could sell more of his games. Today its more of a tradition and a nod to what he has done in the past. I think to remember that he had some kind of role in Civ 4, but not even as a dev in the usual sense. More as an embessador.
Plus he is a introvert. The decision to put his name on the box wasnt his. :)
Playing all 6 characters into cruel ssf. Defenitly the way to go if you dont like 1 button screen clearing
imagine when they talk about chimera i just killed it
I think players are terrified not to kill the boss in 5 seconds because of the loss potential in endgame. The longer the boss lives the bigger chance you have to lose progression. Everything can be tuned by the player to accommodate map difficulty and customize your own game play but still sometimes you’ll have no idea why your staring at a death screen lol
its not a souls like because in soulslikes i dont lose 20-30 min character progress when i die
That just depends in how many souls you were carrying
@@karlklein2263 You can usually get your souls back unless you mess up.
@BasketCase-rr7tx in which case you do lose that progress. Its happened to me. Most ive lost at once was 250k souls. That was almost a whole level at the time.
@@karlklein2263 that’s also one of the things that makes souls games fun though, the risk reward system. No other type of game does it so well.
Try hardcore.
As someone who never played PoE1, PoE2 100% was souls-like if you started as a warrior.
Best part of this pod is definitely the take on devs on social media and all this new trend of 10 thousands platforms that make no sense and only care about drama and criticism agree 1000%!
just figured out you can destroy the pedestal the chimera lands on. Only did it to one because i accidentally knocked it down. It stunned the beast so I could get some hits in with my warrior.
Yeah, that's the intended mechanic for fighting him. Overall, I don't find him that bad.
That said, he does have an annoying tendency to land on one of the three buildings and right away take off again. I'm wondering if that's a bug or intended. If he didn't do that, then you'd get to hit him more frequently.
Mercenary gets a lot better about halfway.Through act two and then it's phenomenal and act 3
I main a Mercenary and it's awesome! I think it's really just about what kind of play style you're into.
Love that your cat is called Zojja... I can see you have a gw2 love, just like myself and my wife do....
Glad someone other than me noticed how the crossbow is broken still
Mace = slow and stunning
Flail = casting and attacking together
Sword = combos and bleeding
Axes = about the same speed as maces but ramps with rage(which might offer speed modifiers somehow with the rage)
Spears = super long range and high speed or with a focus on impale.
It is more a clear fast or die not soul like at all.
5:50 lmao, for me the crossbow has been the best addition to poe2 so far, minus the grenade, cus holy shit those are annoying to use
See! People love different things lol.
I think the crossbow has been the clunkiest and most unenjoyable thing i have ever experienced in arpgs. Idea is cool and i would love to play merc but the reload system is a somehow bad.. it is so slow and sometimes bugged. I hope they do something about it. Grenades work fine with the cooldowns.
its crazy how people see things so differently. crossbow to me is definitely feeling unintuitive in design. the reload and even the bolt swap just dont feel fluid
Did you play with WASD? Cause it feels like shit on old mouse and keyboard style. The characters rotation speed is so fucking slow and you cant fire until you finish rotating.
Grenades are OP in the endgame. Literally clearing screens of breach monsters with flash grenades. Probably spent 500+ divines on the build so far though.
It would be nice if Tri could get a content creator who’s an actual expert on the souls games on the podcast. That way they could have a more nuanced and level headed conversation about this topic. Plenty of souls content creators have also been playing PoE2 so it shouldn’t be hard to get one on.
57:28 Exsanguinate is actually in the game as a wand skill. Same with Soulrend that is only available as a staff skill. I doubt we'll get them as regular skill gems, which is really sad.
My first to maps was merc but not using grenades. The harshest was the constant click click click or miss firing and then you go back to firing. Was pretty easy. My storm weaver is stalled in act three in the city with the angry lady boss. It’s been faster but until now, no challenge. I guess I had more fun on merc for thinking vs just screen clearing. Still loads of fun over all.
Great argument from Lycan about stamina and animation commitment = Souls-likes. Well reasoned and well said!
The game isn’t a souls like but the developer has said they took inspiration from souls, which is where the confusion is. It’s also not just the dodge roll, it’s the fact that enemies spawn when you die which is also something they said they took form souls games as it’s not a traditional thing in ARPG’s.
The things that annoys me the most in the PoE 2 combat is just that the immunity frames from the dodge roll doesnt work for AOEs. It's specially annoying when Count Ogham decides to drop the wolf on you and you can't immunity frame it because the AOE is too large for your +0%/10% move speed character, or when you dodge backwards once to take a breath and possibly recharge the ES or something but Black Jaw decides to do an impossibly large Cone AOE in front of him and one shots you because no matter where you dodge you will be inside his cone AOE.
You don’t need movement speed boots to dodge the count. Perfectly doable with zero. You just have to run a couple steps before rolling. It just punishes roll spam
@@Hatchy32 Im pretty sure I tried several times walking and dodging at last minute and you do get clipped at the very edge of the AOE. I might be wrong on the 10% move speed tho cause I just recently started making new characters always using move speed boots but I know for sure 0% is almost undoable specially if you were spamming an attack and have to immediately wait for the animation of the attack to finish to start moving your normal speed. Regardless the point is more about how the dodge roll doesnt give immunity frames on dodge rolls and its very possible to get yourself in situations are undodgeable.
I reach lvl 92 in mercenary witchhunter gas grenades and stopped because it took me mins to kill boss and gas grenades roll gas grenades roll continuous for mapping isn't fun for me lol
You mean you were dying like crazy right? That and lvl92 is the first level where T15s actually give shit Xp.
Your post is strange... Any seasoned poe player knows that most people quit at 91-93 for very specific reasons and not for the reasons you post...
Yea..
@ most gamers are new to POE don’t act so stuck up. Mapping was easy it’s just roll grenade roll grenade. It’s the bosses where it lacks any dmg. You probably a broke POE player with less than 30divs in his build and getting outplayed by newer POE players. Made a Gemling and having more fun lvl 97 now scrub
@@PinoyZo1 ye keep thinking that nab.
Keep playing your copy and paste broken ctap while thinking you're the shit until the nerf hammer falls.
People like you are the first that cry on reddit after each nerf. People that are at 97 while being complete scrubs:P
@ lmao you prob don’t got 30 divs on your build yet think your so much better than everyone 😂 POE 1 cope players
@ You've already said that clown. Look above at your own comment:D
I don't think I've had less than 100 exalts/divines at the end of the first month of any POE league since 2012.
Keep coping scrub. An keep copy and pasting builds..
Tri you're the man, sending good vibes your way ❤
About pinnacle boss fight time. If fights last 1-3mins they need to lessen one shot skills and add life
I think the biggest problem concerning the powercurve/combat is that if they make the combat in the endgame as interesting as the early game for good players, it will be superhard to get anywhere on SSF or just players with bad builds. SSF will need much more help (crafting or targetable farming).
Join me in playing gathering storm with no bell, say no to big bell
Is there a moment where currency drops and you don't want to pick it up ? Picking up currency, gold and league related items automatically should be the norm, mostly because if you die you loose all the loot, even exalts and divines. Or at least there should be a way where you are able to go back and pick up the loot that you already got even if you can't complete the map anymore.
06:06 I actually like the merc, Im pushing through endgame with him since yesterday. I like being a Rambo commando. The crossbow may be jank and buggy sometimes, but the overall gameplay is solid in my eyes.
the talk about exsanguinate has me so sad, blood mage has no blood magic spells and it feels so weird when the first game had multiple.
You should Try D2R because it has Controller support and they changed other options for how the controls work, where you can instant cast instead of selecting first etc. The game has been seriously updated with D2R and it's better than ever.
Yeh. Actually plays better with controller than it ever did with MnK thanks to the instant cast. My first reaction was ”why didnt i have this back in the early 2000s” lol.
Im forcing myself to play as a xbow merc. And it feels so terrible. Currently in a3
SSF player here - I didn't level with crossbow, but used bow until I got to around lvl 38 then transitioned. Crossbow feels amazing once you get into Cruel and have a decent dps weapon. Play galvanic or explosive and it feels amazing in end game - although there is a bug where it will refuse to fire, which can get annoying tbh. I have levelled Merc (Witch hunter), Ranger (Deadeye) and Monk (Invoker) all to test different end game builds using crossbow. Stick with it, it's worth.
Tri, you gotta play Bloodborne on stream
The campaign kinda plays like a souls game when you have no gear, but later on you're just killing stuff within 10 seconds again. So they probably just wanted to make the power spike more obvious I guess, but yeah it definitely doesn't apply to the whole game and calling the bosses "souls-like" doesn't make sense at all
i cant stand crossbows in most games, however, i bought a pillar of caged god and the rage uniques at lvl 1 and just destroyed everything on my merc. no need for a cross bow xD feels like a monk and i love it. gemling stat stacking is def OP
The worst thing from my point of View, (warrior pov) is that scaling is wrong. There is a node for warriors that give “1% increased damage Per 15 strengte”. The Dex tree has a “1% Attack speed per 15 Dex”.. 30% Attack speed is Way more valuable than 30% increased damage. Its NOT “more damage”.
Same with other stats like cast speed. Which is available on like 5 different items? 2x rings, neck, staff and shield thingy? Warriors get it on gloves and weapon.
So just seems like we have less access to stats that Will scale as crazy as other classes ?
Lets not even talk about ES scaling
I don't think the ES scaling is that bad, personally. The overflow from Meditate and Grim Feast... that's stupid. But that's those things, not the core ES mechanic. The way I see it, it is more than armour and what goes with it needs to scale more. If ES was gutted to Armours level, you'd just have two things that feel bad. Well, three, because the evasion guys would get killed by certain AoEs or just inevitable bad luck.
Really, the "warrior" just gets hosed in every way. Long animations parts of which you can't apply skill/attack speed to. Gear that imposes the biggest movement penalties, so you can't get out of the way of things as easily, and this is coupled with skills that take longer if you move slower. A defense that works the least when you need it most, and only against physical, without a back-up layer. Lack of ability to bounce back from a hit nearly as well/fast as ES can (tiny amounts on on hit, and mace is slow; drain life is phys portion only and slow, hp regen nodes are kind of weak for incombat, flasks cap low). Nodes that make their attacks even slower. Lots of skills that want prep before they do much. 1h weapons do garbage damage, need shield for survival, so everyone feels pushed into Giant's Blood + shield. And so on.
Basically, worst defense, worst QoL, worst feeling offense.
If the combat stayed as slow and "meaningful" in the endgame as it is in the early campaign, it would get boring&cumbersome pretty quickly. Also there wouldn't really be same kind of feel of character progression. I don't think it needs fixing, as long as there is enough build diversity and interesting stuff to do in endgame.
Most players are saying they prefer the campaign. Poe1 loses 70% of its player base a month after a new league drops. People like actual gameplay, I don’t see how removing almost all the real combat gameplay is “slow and cumbersome”
@@RathVantas I have mostly seen complaints about endgame being too shallow, which it for sure is. Not so much about the speed of it.
If you want to keep the game slow paced all the way through, then i think the only solution is to make it more souls-like and take a lot of power away from the player. I know i wouldn't want that, but i'm not speaking for everybody. Time will tell what will happen.
but isn't that the devs vision of PoE2. More accessible, slower and more methodical combat, boss telegraphed mechanics and dodge roll to avoid the mechanics.
Which is why PoE1 is not getting replaced by PoE2 but instead co-existing with it. It's meant to cater to different playerbase within the ARPG space.
Similar to WoW classic and WoW retail or Old School RuneScape and Runescape. Both are MMORPG with different gameplay pacing.
@@CL-jq1xs Which is why i said we will have to wait to see what happens.
@@RathVantas I don’t know anyone that plays any RPG for longer than a month unless they don’t have enough time to play and still haven’t completed their personal goals… a month is a long time per season to play…
Merc crossbow grenade enjoyer signing in here.
Don't make up conspiracy theories about Chris dude.
You've almost got it right with the hoodie, just need to pull it a little further over your head 😂
Talk with Shinshin he have some amazing takes.
44:55 just keep them off Reddit at all costs and they'll be fine
edit: yeah thats basically the response lol
turning path of exile into an action game is not a difficult prolem to solve. Make animations that activate for every attack type, whether it be the enemy being hit by normal attacks staggering them, behing hit by heavy attacks knocking them back. Then simply add more hp to everything and make damage more reasonable example, you can only do 50 damage on some skills, then you charge them up and that is how you get the damage the skill has as it levels. Then with skills that don't charge, hitting them multiple times makes the damage go up somehow. Literally implementing just this paragraph would get rid of making the end game a one shot fest, the devs just dumb.
Im a souls vet, beat em all. Poe2 is my first arpg ever. I'm playing merc in maps loving life. I didn't follow any build guide, don't trade, and I'm sure my tree isn't the best, but I think playing through souls games made other games easier to approach. I'm also on console. The game is hard yes but not so much so it can't be overcame. I've found a good amount of currencies, a chunk of uniques that I'm going to use on a monk playthrough... I'm loving this game so far, almost 120 hours in already.
I think the problem is that the difference between Trading and SSF players is huge. If you make the end game harder it could feel better for traders but it will become a nightmare for SSF players. I think a part of the problem is that the equipement is way too strong right now. And the crafting system is too rng based. That means SSF players can never get equipement as strong as traders and the game feels much harder for them. So I would say: if you love difficulty, just play SSF 😅
Camera seems fine to me in fromsoft games.
Boss swings and punishment for getting hit and gamefeel matter more for feeling "souls-y" than most player-side mechanics, and there are lots of Soulsy similarities there compared to other action games. Big, delayed, turning swings that follow you until the last moment, and the multihits that stun you once and finish you off.
From that perspective, PoE2 feels nothing like DMC or Bayo, haha. The lack/inclusion of stamina doesn't change how the game feels to play moment-to-moment. Otherwise, Monster Hunter and Soulsgames would be the closest siblings, and... y'know. Not really.
Pathfinder got to t15 maps in less than 15 maps 😂 not all builds are equal. He forgot exp loss on death is a souls like quality.
Bro where you find this people who can even show the face on a podcast.
Ngl, if you cant debate vs the massive heat from your design choices being grilled on by your playerbase, you should really reconsider whether youre making good decisions. The fact that it takes 3 years for GGG to listen about QoL and other major issues is just straight up bad. If Jonathan or someone else higher up runs away because they cant handle their design decisions being criticised its their problem not ours. Im here to play a good game not a nanny
Personally I like being OP end game, it may be a hot take but I like to test out different builds and swap weapons around through different characters, personally act 3 in the past is always a struggle for me because my build isn’t that online yet but it is really satisfying getting past that then getting my build online and it feels really rewarding and if whatever build I make is unintentionally nerfed due to some other very powerful interactions then it just feels really really bad currently I’m testing out melee storm weaver with the every hit shocks and every hit chills while using the heralds without having to use oposing infusion feels really good and I would hate for it to be nerfed unintentionally.
33:22 I chose the mod that adds a blood beam turret thing that rotates and because this game has no Z axis it will LOOK like it shoots overhead if it's on a higher level than you but oh no... it nearly killed me twice because I thought i would be safe going under the beam... silly me
The reason end game feels like poe1 is because of breach and ritual. Don’t play those mechanics and see how it feels.
I've been having the most fun with the merc/crossbow, personally. But I didn't go grenades. I pretty much beelined for reload and attack speed nodes, and went with a Rapid Fire build, though I use Galvanic Shards for trash mob clearing. With the Witchhunter ascension. It's been great, running around with a machine gun and an automatic shotgun.
Mace, on the other hand, feels like crap. It just doesn't belong with pretty much everything else the game does.
I don't get that bit about map levels. I could very easily get to being able to do level 10 maps with a new character. And it isn't skill. I'm not playing meta builds. All I need is the waystones to drop. If they do that, I'm doing stuff closer to my level, which gets me xp, which means I level pretty quickly, and it wouldn't be an issue getting to high level waystones. But the freaking waystones have to drop. And they don't. Which forces me to do maps below what I'm capable of.
I don't think mechanical skill matters that much for new characters, so much as game knowledge. I can breeze through stuff with my merc on SSF not so much because I'm skilled. I lack the reflexes for that. Rather, because I know what nodes to go for, what I want in my weapon, when something isn't working so respec time, what the boss will do and how to be counteract it, and so on. It's 90% knowledge.
Viper is a far worse boss than the Chimera. She also flies around, but has stupid mechanics that are entirely reflex based. Garbage fight.
People call Outward a souls-like too. All because of the dodge roll. Yeah, it's annoying lol
"This is a crappy souls-like, why is the combat so janky??" Because it's not a souls-like, doofus.
Merc is less clunky than warrior and I'm a nade Merc.
Ammo merc is even worse than warrior. Atleast warrior is trying to do something 😅 merc just standing there with empty clip while im trying to shoot the damn thing. Nades works fine but ammo with reload system is horrible.
@ That’s because reloading is bugged. If you’re dodge rolling while reloading you’re basically doomed to eat shit.
....... crap there goes my favorite description of POE 2 and yeah I've only played very limited action games before.
All it took me was one episode of Arcane S2 and I will never watch it again.
I Wonder what episode make you quit and why ?
@dondrayar5847 1st episode made me not want to continue (and my wife). Compared to proper anime Japanese series/movie I find Arcane to be bad and too western/US influenced.
They should put out acts every new league and to balance things out for the end game, create maps negative tiers to level up until you get to tier 1 and as they add a new act, they could remove some negative map tiers. Also, as it is right now you get two points for the atlas tree every 10 tier map, with the introduction of negative tiers, make it one point every 10 tiers until you have all acts out.
Having played both I don’t think it is. Other than dodge I’m not seeing it. However I think Eldon ring is still my favorite game of all time and I’ve played it through over ten times with various weapons. Poe2 having tons of bosses that are enjoyable is another comparison.
If Poe had a block mechanic then yeah I’d say they’re very much the same in that way.
As much as I like souls games I hate dragon fights and colossal fights.
Also as much as I agree crossbow needs work I however love that class more than any other. High velocity rounds downs bosses in like 5 hits and fragment rounds destroys groups in hit plus herald of ash and boom groups die and you never stop running.
The monsters are to quick your character has to be faster
Ive never found myself going oh, this feels like Dark Souls. Diablo definitely. Is it the dodge roll, the difficulty? I just dont see it. I wish the lore was easier to digest though, maybe thats where it feels the most Souls-like. The lore is a jumbled up mess of npcs and bloodlines and gods, and its all over the place even in its own timeline.
This is arpg. Not a souls game. Sure there is tuning to be made.. surely not easy to balance. But yes, you should feel like a god and trash mobs should be melting. Bosses should not be one shotted except if you have played a character hundreds of hours then it is deserved and your character should be a godlike being.
It is a souls-like. There's so much argument over what makes something a souls-like because it's not 1 thing that makes something a souls-like, it's a degree based on weights. The weights include dodge rolling, emphasis on boss fights, relative slowness in combat, relatively higher difficulty, and an emphasis on strategic real-time combat. These are weighted in order of what I just listed, or something close to that order.
A game needs a high enough weight to be considered souls-like, just one of those things aren't enough. But POE 2 includes all of those things, full stop. Sorry dude, I get it we want people to stop comparing every game to the souls genre and it's getting annoying, but the fact is there's a trend happening in the industry where souls-like is pretty popular, so of course... games are going to be made with those things in mind, and we have genres for a reason.
God of War is a soulslike! Resident Evil is a soulslike! Devil May Cry is a soulslike! Ocarina of Time is a soulslike!
You people are insufferable. This is what you sound like. This is what you are. He listed multiple points, not one. Path of Exile 2 is an ARPG, not a soulslike. Souls gamers are so brainrotted they unironically call games that came out before Dark Souls 1 soulslikes. It's an Action. Role. Playing. Game...Go Away.
I do think POE 2 reminds of Souls games, but sure it is not souls like. The slow pace, the animations from bosses and you dodging through them... All that came from Dark Souls. I would easily say it is closer to dark souls than devil may cry. DMC is about making combos, and sure you read enemies animations, but it is not the biggest part of that game.
Guild Wars 2 has been making some live streams talking very openly about their design choices. They are not like POE devs, but they are kinda close to it.
The takes from Lycan are very extreme, and honestly, it does sound like he makes videos essays. Not all utuber that do these videos are like that, but there are lots of them that love to say very strong opinions like the camera of darks souls is absolute garbage (it is not that bad), or arcane season 2 is horrible, or POE 2 is NOTHING like darks souls (not true neither wtf).
Is this maulers little brother? 3 hour videos, hates arcane season 2 lol
Having played both I don’t think it is. Other than dodge I’m not seeing it. However I think Eldon ring is still my favorite game of all time and I’ve played it through over ten times with various weapons. Poe2 having tons of bosses that are enjoyable is another comparison.
If Poe had a block mechanic then yeah I’d say they’re very much the same in that way.
As much as I like souls games I hate dragon fights and colossal fights.
poe2 is 100% Souls....inspired.
How so?
@@mryellow6918 oh its written all over the game...just look at the Candlemass, the Living Rite boss.
Bro you can rebind your keys in D2R to anything. you dont have to use the function keys lol
poe2 is poe1. the dev knows it. we all know it. aoe smasher all day long. ggg
I really hope they don't just turn poe 2 into poe 1's combat speed. People have poe 1 for that. They should make poe 2 it's own game. We don't need the same game with better graphics. If they do then why does poe 2 even exist?
sadly the devs in the last livestream/interview said the endgame speed will stay, because players need to feel powerful by the end. I was really hoping poe2 would be much different than poe 1 and have actual combat to engage in even in endgame instead of zoom around hit 1 button blow up the screen or die in one hit to an explosion
Nice
It's not just PoE1 players. PoE1 never hooked me, but I'm loving PoE2. I don't want the end game to be some 5 minute boss fight slog. The point of an ARPG is to get galaxy strong and blast things. I'd be fine if the transition were a bit more smoothed out but at some point I want to be clear-the-room-with-a-machine-gun strong.
That is the point of ARPG to you. I like power progression in ARPG but not to that extent. There isn't just one type of playerbase in ARPG
A good example is WoW retail and WoW classic or Old School RuneScape and Runescape. Both are MMORPG but they attract very different player within the MMORPG space. Well that's the reason why PoE1 is not being replaced by PoE2. It's meant to offer a different gameplay experience.
I doubt many like 5 minute boss fight as well but that's taking it to the extreme. How about a boss fight that last close to a minute? A boss at least be able to do it's mechanic. Else why add dodge roll and make boss ability be telegraphed.
Yeah, they didn't say they wanted a boss fight to take 5m. But 1-3 I believe were the numbers tossed around.
Now, personally, I wouldn't want 3m either, as that's far too long of a fight chock full of one shot or near one shot mechanics. Especially with how horrible bad the odds are of getting a gear upgrade in the game, so you can't exactly go farm gear to fix those issues. Just farm currency so you can buy the gear from someone else. Because that's why you play one of these games... to buy gear from other players.
God Lycan is so cringe for talking about the stupid Bathesda design document comment. Its a brain rotted opinion that people hold onto to feel validated when they are just hyper focusing on details that don't paint the whole picture. CRRRRIINGE
How many hours did you Starfield? Be honest.
Someone tell GGG, because they literally sponsored a IronPineapple video. A channel all about Souls-like games. That said, Fromsoft games are not nearly as harsh when it comes to punishing failure.
While the names differ, both stamina and mana are a replenishing resource that dictates your action economy, and if you're playing a warrior you very much have to consider animation timings. Once we get retaliation skills to pair with the active block mechanic, we will even be able to parry bait our way through.
Civilization V was the last decent Civ game. Civ 6 and later are utter garbage
leave my souls games alone!!!!🤣😂
Waiting for the moment this "DS games need skill" bullcrap stops.
DS games need knowledge and patience. Nothing else. Ye zoomers cant play them but i sure as hell can and i am NOT a skilled gamer...
They surely barrowed a lot of souls (Elden ring specifically) visuals,abilities,boss difficulty and similarity and mechanics. People aren’t saying it randomly without something to reference it. It’s definitely a different game but a lot was barrowed.
It’s literally souls like 😂
PoE2 is not a souls like "right now" the idea to slow the game down is to make it SOULS LIKE. Lycan wanting to slow the game down and rely more heavily on dodge roll and stuff is flat out souls like, Lycan is wrong, as someone who loves and has completed more than once every game made by Fromsoftware. This is not an "action game" this is an isometric arpg which is not designed for insanely slow combat (slow in the point that you are forced to engage enemies even after hundreds of hours of investment.) To add, bayonetta combat is fast as hell and the dodging isn't a slow clunky dodge. The dodge in poe2 and dark souls damn near feel the same speed and the animations almost look identical.
Starving for content lol
The devs themselves said they added some souls-like mechanics especially to boss fights, so it is.
Source?
@ShaddyzZz One of the videos on their channel discussing their design philosophy for POE2, go look for it.
Lycan has no idea wtf he is talking about with Arcane season 2. That shit transcended to high art. He's probably mad about Caitlyn being gay or some shit just based on his Veilguard immediate disdain.
Well, Veilguard is bad on so many levels. About the only things worth praising are the environments and the hair physics. Combat is mid at best. And the writing is garbage tier, while it breaks a bunch of lore from the pre-existing games. If the game wasn't DA, it wouldn't have garnered much attention at all, being as lackluster (or mid if you feel generous) as it was.
Now, I don't know what people are saying about Arcane 2 and I haven't watched it yet myself. But that that writer guy felt the need to go defend his work likely means there is a bunch of criticism being thrown at it.
Worst interview ive heard so far. So many opinions that were very far out there. Also Talkative ive noticed that you always agree with everyone on almost every view. If you keep agreeing with everyone how can us the viewers actually tell what your opinions are other than what everyone else says. This is like the 7th video ive noticed you agreeing with most everything someone says.
I dont hate you Im just giving some criticism. Love most of your videos though.
Why are you so mad?
@@Ohnonono123 Hey, just giving criticism. Without it you dont learn from mistakes. Also he doesnt have to take my opinion seriously. Its just what I was thinking from what I was watching.
such a weird take. The point of interviewing someone is to hear their opinions. Youre calling this the worst interview because.... the interviewee doesnt have opinions that align with your own, and the interviewer doesn't try to talk over them? You dont want an interview, man, you want an echo chamber...
@@gegegoogoogaga I didnt mind the one guest but I like back and forth agreements and disagreements and I only ever see agreements in these videos and its not constructive. Its like(Dude I like this one thing. Oh yeah I do too) (Dude I love this one thing, Oh yeah I do to.) and theres no large explinations of why Talkative agrees. Its like he agrees because they said they like or dislike what they just said.
Again, I dont hate you Talkative I just have some dislikes towards these podcasts
Maybe the solution is that Talkative needs to give some opinions along with the guest opinions instead of only letting them give theres all the time.
And maybe its just something wrong with me because Im expecting to hear opinions from both sides equally and I mostly only hear from the guest which is probably what Talkative was going for. If so then I just wont toon into these as much anymore.
What was so bad about it, like what opinions did you think were bad
I love my Merc Galvanic shards, it melts maps, its gets better ppl are not patient, thsts the problem