Steve is warming up before 5080/5090 and 9070/XT marathon testing. Thanks Steve! Also Intel needs to do a lot of work on the drivers overhead. But I'm glad that they are sticking to the dGPU market. We need more competition on the lower end.
Just after I bought B580 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided was one of the first game I launched... and this game welcomes you with flashbang before it shows you main menu :/
B580 pricing sucks everywhere outside the US. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Pricing will improve over time as supply improves too, but right now it doesn't make a lot of sense if you don't live in North America.
Took the risk and Pre ordered my limited edition B580 for £250 minutes after the announcement had a lot of doubt from friends and online people it arrived day after launch and each review makes me smile I made the right choice it’s not the best card in the world but for the money it’s fantastic
What CPU did you pair it with? From HUB testing, anything slower than 7600 and the performance tanks, in fact in some games as much as 50% which is utterly atrocious.
I honestly believe Intel needs to get to work on those drivers to try and reduce the CPU overheads. The Arc B580 looks like a great GPU on paper, but it's being torpedoed by the overhead.
@@MogCity2it’s a thing, hwunboxed made a video about it…. Unless you have a new gen cpu arc performance is garbage, and if you got a ryzen 7600 or a 14500 or better than why would you waste away cpu performance with a b580 gpu bottleneck
The current hubbub over the overhead is that since Intel built the drivers off of the old iGPU ones and they relied more on the CPU (and they just didn't care beyond getting it to work) that it's come to bite them in butt, that same reliance on the CPU, along with other things makes for a bad time with DX11 and Vulkan titles. There's a Chips and Cheese dive into it on their website where they explain the problem better than I can.
Well one issue may be if they offloaded certain workloads to the cpu/drivers that amd/nvidia can do on the gpu and thus are limited how much optimization can be done.
I bought my B580 on December 20 in Canada for $350 CAD ($244 US). There were 7 cards in all of Canada when I ordered it (Canada Computers, Memory Express, Best Buy and Amazon) and I haven't seen any available since. The cheapest 4060 I could find is $100 CAD ($70) more and the 7600 is $50 CAD ($35 USD) more than the B580 was. Plus, the ones at these prices are out of stock as well, both then and now. I paired it with a 5700X3D and running it at 1080p. While I'm no expert, it has played everything I've thrown at it with no issues. I have 0 complaints with my purchase and I figure it can only get better as time goes on.
Right now I think the biggest issue for the B580 is the increased prices due to high demand, when this normalizes it's going to be a very good option and makes me very excited for the potential b750 and 770
If someone is looking for a 9800x3d, they don't buy such cards, so the b580 if it weighs against the 5600 is not a good choice for the target consumer group.
Absolutely. I upgraded to a 5600X back at the end of November, along with nabbing a 6750XT for £310. The cheapest B580 I've seen is £318. 4060's seem to start ~£255 (on offer atm) but that 8GB VRAM is a no-go IMO. I had 8GB on my RX480, if I'm doing infrequent, drastic upgrades I'm not getting the exact same amount of VRAM.
Agree. I know why they bench like this but I've always had some small miss giving. This intel issue shows the importance of also testing some with an entire system that makes sense.
I think the age of great value GPUs are over. Because in the past, a card could be priced much lower than its performance, and only the tech-heads would see that it was great value. These days, with channels like Hardware Unboxed, everybody tunes in and knows exactly what cards are the best deals. Which means demand for those cards increase, leading to a price increase.
radeon hd 7950 was the last time i had a card that performed better then advertised and was in the 200 dollar range. the same cam he said with cpus as the older intel amd cpus would once in awhile come out with a budget cpu that punched above its weight.
Hello, in Europe (Romania) a Sparkle Titan B580 (only model which is available) is 330Euro or equivalent 340 US dolars . MSI Ventus 4060 cost 336Euro or equivalent 346 US dolars. At this prices ... I would buy a Radeon 7700 XT instead . Sapphire Pure 7700 XT is ~400Euro or 412US dolars That's for gamers. For video and/or photo work I would get the B580 as it is very good on that type of work. In my work scenario which is 3D work(Blender, FreeCAD) and also for LLM usage (ollama) I would get an NVIDIA card but not the 4060. I would get a 4070ti (if you can found them ) or a 4070 super. I will just wait for the new GPU's (5070, 5070ti) and RX 9070 XT or nonXT to see them in benchmarks. Maybe when they will be available in stores the old generation Nvidia 407x price will go down.
I really appreciate the unparalleled and timely testing data over your 4 videos on this card. I am going to pick up my B580 today and you've really helped me temper my expectations. As someone who flipped between Team Green and Red for decades at this point I'm just excited to take the gamble on the Intel card!
Sure you do, why do gamers think a new GPU would be fully backwards compatible? New software won't run on older hardware because it requires to much coding Cheer up, when Intel gets all the bugs out, the price will skyrocket
@@joemorgan8436 "why do gamers think a new GPU would be fully backwards compatible?" ...Well I don't know. It could be because Nvidia and AMD have normalized that. Sure is interesting how Intel CPUs are pretty damn backwards compatible too; even the "you need Windows 11 for Alder Lake's e-cores" thing doesn't actually play out in reality, they work just fine on W10. And Intel integrated graphics. "New software won't run on older hardware because it requires to much coding" ...Weird. Not a problem for Nvidia and AMD🤷 Or Intel CPUs. Or Intel integrated graphics. "when Intel gets all the bugs out" ...If Intel is even still an independent company making their own decisions in the next 3 years. Without a shadow of a doubt, the company with the shakiest future. Weird cope
The price of $250 sounds nice here in the US, if you could actually get your hands on one for that much. The cheapest card NewEgg has to offer is $270 which can't be bought since it's been out of stock since day 1. The "cheapest" card that's actually in stock is sold by GUNNIR and it's $341 ON SALE and the price only goes up from there. Luckily no one seems to have fallen prey to the price gouging yet as there's no reviews for those models. And to anyone who wants to tell me to just "get it from Micro Center". News flash, Micro Center is a luxury not all of get to experience and they don't sell GPU's online.
I still can't believe Nvidia will launch a RTX5060 with only 8 gigs of Vram. It's 100% DOA. But it will most likely still sell reasonably well, since it will probably be in every budget prebuild system known to man. A lot of new to PC gaming folks who aren't in the know and buy such systems will likely get burned by it and rather switch to consoles. Ridiculous.
Price/performace is finally good again! If only support for old games was as good as with amd or nvidia, but I guess thats realy hard to achieve at this point.
"A slower CPU like the ryzen 5 5600" Bruh... one of the newest and fastest best value chips out there. It should be enough to tide over anyone for years to come.
Yes. The 5600 (launched in April of 2022) is a decent CPU and too good to be paired with this B580 card. I'd look at a better GPU with which to match it.
Visual quality also needs to be discussed when VRAM limited. I have a 3070 and have tried running Horizon at 7680x2160 and it will run at 60fps at that resolution but it literally looks like the fighting polygons from N64's super smash bros. Happy to provide video/photo evidence
Although not shown here the 4060 has started to fail to run games 1440p and could do with being looked into. That said a very well done video. Keep up the good work.
My weird take on this is .... For Intel on 2nd gen Arc to be playing in the same park as 4060 is a really really good effort. Just to be able to do that is a real achievement. Yes, the benches are sketchy with driver work still needed, but a big step up in hardware and software over the A series. Power usage is still 'not good' vs 4060. But otherwise, to hit that marker is really good. I don't think 250 is a good entry / midrange - but from what I understand intel is losing money on each sale. I think PC gaming is heading for hard times down the line. If common games won't run well on both older, and new £$250 cards - then devs have a lot of optimising to do. Or lost sales. Their choice..
People aren't going to ditch games due to poor optimization, they're just going to lower their graphics settings. What's more likely to happen is game devs without the time/resources to optimize will probably lean more heavily into super scaling tech.
@@PanderingSlats The gaming industry is already in some pretty serious trouble. You may think that a market where you are being pitched to buy £500+ GPUs and where AAA are $60+ and where the product isn't optimised has a bright future. Lets just say that gaming globally is heading for some heavy headwinds, and these are already visible.
@@loganmedia4401 While I am going to be between the devil and deep blue sea - yes, but not in those simple terms. This video is interesting as it goes into a few areas that are interesting. Optimising isn't just less texture, or complexity of models. ua-cam.com/video/l_JAk9xGMvk/v-deo.html
New GPUs should be competing with new GPUs, meaning 5060 and 9060. Them only matching and still somehow losing to a 4060 when paired with a reasonable CPU means a future GPU like a 5060 will decimate the B580 at everything, mind you, that GPU could be releasing as early as this year or early next year. So for me at least is not really a good effort and given the lack of availability at even $270, just a really bad effort.
I mean as someone who built a PC with a 2600, on of my first upgrades wasn’t the gpu, it was updating my bios and getting a 5800x for about $170. Huge upgrade, and let me get higher ram speeds with tighter timings on the dims I already had, so it was a positive feedback loop of improvements. Now I’m finally looking at upgrading my gpu, probably will snag a 9070 xt if it ends up being priced right for its performance.
@@Sid-Cannon look at this channel, they directly tested that not long ago. The B580 can bottleneck pretty hard with zen 2 and even zen 3 sometimes in heavy cpu games. Now that only matters if you’re trying to play higher refresh 1080p really so long as you are on zen 3 or better. Zen 2 or older and it was so much slower than a 4060 that it just didn’t make sense.
Compared to the decades of nvidia driver updates, I'd still say Intel is providing a decent product that can be improved a fair amount on the driver side. If the B580 is hard to buy and is out of stock often that speaks well for customer belief that the drivers will be updated continuously.
It’s crazy that Pat Gelsinger used the word Taiwan and cost Intel the ability to pump these B580’s out for cheap. They had something like a 40% discount deal with TSMC and he messed up the one China talk and they axed the entire deal. Intel paid full price for these wafers, and that very likely is why it’s not in stock at $250 everywhere.
@@OriginalUser2023 idk, I'd probably say that someone who buys a new gpu that costs less than their cpu is probably more likely to be "the most dumbest gamer ever"
thank you for the testing. i can't help but notice there is no party animals, so might be a little biosed. we all know that is one of the most relevant benchmark games :)
Not suprised, I already told myself that I would be building a new pc if I had to upgrade the gpu with the development of resizable bar (and some other computer developments).
Nice video. At $250, still seems good. In Japan, it's about 50,000 yen ($320), but it's more expensive than the RTX 4060 and the 7600 and just slightly cheaper than the 7600xt. I would definitely go for one of those over the b580. Also, what do you think about doing more medium settings in newer games for this level of a card? There were some results that were just unplayable on both cards, or less than a very nice experience even at 1080p.
People complain that the card is over prices outside of North America. The msrp is 250 dollar = 242 euro + 21% tax = 293 euro + AIB partner tax = ~312 euro. Current prices in Germany: Acer Nitro Arc is 310 euro, Sparkle Arc = 320/330 euro, ASRock Arc B580 Steel Legend = 340, So they are available close to msrp. A rtx4060 is also 300 euro. I think these cards are still to expensive for a the budget target audience. Because they also have to compete with used cards that are cheaper and faster.
@@byMyXzx1 Who would want to buy a b580 for that price? To me it's a flawed product, the only reason I would buy one (for msrp) would be to help Intel so we have a 3th player in the gpu market. But it would be a very stupid reason because if Intel could ask 1000 euro for a card, they would. They (gpu makers) are all here to earn as much money as possible.
I'm confused as to why the CPU isn't listed on any of those infographics. Edit: It was the 9800X3D, tested before the known issue. Thanks Voyajer. I knew my skipping around missed it.
Why do gamers think a new GPU would be fully backwards compatible? New software won't run on older hardware because it requires to much coding Cheer up, when Intel gets all the bugs out, the price will skyrocket
Arc is aud460 compared to 4060 at 406. They need to control the availability or intel risk being edged out by retailer margins. There’s no room for error at the low end, things are too volatile and the incumbents are stocked to the teeth keeping prices stable with room to move lower if needed.
*I think the best way to quickly compare midrange and older CPU effects on the B580's performance, using an older CPU on a few CPU intensive games would be enough, compared to the Nvidia card in like 5 games.*
Buyers also need to consider power draw when looking at GPU upgrades, as neither one is a good value if it requires a new PSU purchase to allow it to operate. Something that all reviewers seem to overlook. At the very least, the power draw of these units needs to be stated, and if there’s a significant difference then it should be included as part of the disclaimers at the end.
Don't count your chickens until they've hatched. AMD never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. It'd be amazing if you were right, but I'm not holding my breath.
I don't really understand why at the end - after being quite blunt with the results - Steve still arrives at a buy recommendation for the B580 for people who want to spend less than 300 Dollars on a new GPU. The 5600 re-test video clearly showed that Arc has severe issues in MANY titles with anything but a high-end CPU - which people buying sub 300 Dollar GPUs are unlikely to have. Imho the weakness of the B580 with weaker CPUs is more severe than the lack of VRAM on the 4060. If you run out of VRAM playing a new title on your 4060 you will have to spend AT LEAST 400 Dollars to get something with >8GB (which is not a B580) - if your game is unplayable on the B580 because your CPU is overwhelmed you are looking at a substantially higher investment to make it work. So who exactly is the B580 actually good value for? People who have a 7600+ CPU but want to spend less than 300 Dollars on a GPU? Seems like a pretty limited market to me.
@@AmirKhan-qx2lr I think a gamer focused person will buy a great value CPU and max out the rest of the budget on GPU, for example the 12, 13 or 14600K + 7900 XT or XTX for 1440P. The B580 should be for those with a 5600, on top of it's bad performance with older CPU's, it's also not great with older games either. Lose-lose IMO. The CPU performance segment makes no sense with this low performing GPU.
Well... Probably because, the average cost per frame of the B580 was still the lowest even with the massively reduced FPS when coupled with older CPUs?
Thanks Steve, love the content and appreciate the continued updates. Are there any plans to look at GPU + CPU testing within the price brackets that consumers would more realistically consider as part of upgrades/builds? I'm not saying stop providing data using top CPU when testing a new GPU (or vice versa) but potentially if you tested some entry level and/or mid range products alongside the market leader you would provide better insight (Even if you only did this for a smaller sample of games)
Thanks Steve... so the B580 costs 20% less and has issues in a handful of games due to driver issues, but, the RTX 4060 also has issues in a handful of games - but due to lack of V-ram and a narrow 128 bit memory bus. So, the more expensive RTX card has issues that cannot be fixed and the less expensive B580 with wider memory bus and more V-ram, has issues that Intel may be able to resolve with driver updates? Hmmm... sounds like the RTX 4060 is SOL. I would love to see a B780 or B980... with more of everything....
@RyTrapp0 I didn't leave anything out that was part of this video. You can have an unsubstantiated opinion, but, that won't make you right. It just means your opinion is not meaningful. Have a nice day.
@@SmarterGaming "I didn't leave anything out that was part of this video" Right - besides the entire intro, where Steve talks about how this is a turd with lower performance CPUs🤣
@@RyTrapp0 I really don't care about your opinion. Maybe you should watch the video he did where he tested it on the Ryzen 5600... He never once said what you are saying. I only intended to address the fact the RTX 4060 has problems that are UNFIXABLE unless you physically mod the card and bios. But, the current issues with be B580 are addressable with a software update. If you can't understand that... it just means your opinion is not based on any facts and is irrelevant to what I said. I am not at all concerned about your thoughts or opinions. But, I hope you have a nice day anyway?
Yes. Although the 4060 is far from great, it's still a proven GPU for budget purposes. Also, even in the US at this point, scalpers are selling, or trying to sell, this B580 for $340 to $385. It's a pure rip-off.
Intel missed the mark sadly. The overhead issue is exactly the thing it didn't need. Because noone that can afford a higher end cpu will pair it with a b580. The cpus for which this gpu would be fitting are exactly those that stand to suffer the overhead issues. What a shame. I think AMD is going to top this soon.
I don't have a problem with B580, just that you can't get one under 300 and it's not too bright to run one with 9800X3D. Not too "real world" if you ask me. Thanks Steve.
The fact that Intel can beat NVidia in any benchmarks is actually remarkable and it shows that Intel's GPU business won't be going away any time soon, and finally we have a third competitor.
Bro the horse died like 2 weeks ago! Now 100 game test, go! Include games from pre 2008 ! Also anyone else think Steve looks pretty tired in this video? Steve to Baelan (Hey buddy, I’m gonna need you to now do this video that takes Quadruple the time of a normal video and says the exact same thing I’ve already said in 5 other videos)
Intel didn’t make very many of these because they use a chip size and vram comparable to a 4070 and understand they have to sell it much cheaper because its not as good. I think they were surprised by how well it can actually sell and if they find a demand for these things at closer to $300 they might actually start mass production….. but probably worried street prices gonna tank like alchemist
I am surprised at how far they have come with Ark. They went from a sluggish buggy mess to actually being a viable choice with decent performance per dollar in just a few years. Definitely looking forward to more ARK from Intel in the future! DON'T KILL THE PROGRAM!!!!
looking forward to the B770 or whatever moniker they go with. B580 was a great showing at the ~$250 price point and will help intel figure out drivers and the like, which will hopefully pave the way for a clean release of the new flagship.
I love that Intel is becoming a lot more competitive in the GPU space but the majority of consumers will just find the 4060 and 5060 a much safer overall pick.
Steve is warming up before 5080/5090 and 9070/XT marathon testing. Thanks Steve!
Also Intel needs to do a lot of work on the drivers overhead. But I'm glad that they are sticking to the dGPU market. We need more competition on the lower end.
Thanks, Steve.
Back to you, Steve
Fantastic testing, I am thankful that I did not get the b580 for flightsim.
I would be mad..
£300 is low end? ROFL 🤣
Well by Nvidia standards these days it is @@johnsmith-i5j7i
The contempt in his voice when he says "due to insufficient VRAM" is barely disguised.
He only wakes up in the morning because his dreams run out of memory.
@@Tom_Quixote you don't?
Steve's nightmares consist of nvidia removing VRAM from cards or at the very least not adding more.
I bet he stood up to say it.
As it should be!
Getting flashbanged with the graphs in the middle of the night 🙈
3 things guaranteed in this life. Death, Taxes, and these white slides being my alarm for my eyes
Just after I bought B580 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided was one of the first game I launched... and this game welcomes you with flashbang before it shows you main menu :/
That is actually a great shout, dark mode graphs would improve this channel at least 1%
funny thing is B580 here in my country currently priced at $320 for the Asrock Challenger model which is $40 more than the cheapest 4060
Probably because it’s a newer product?
B580 pricing sucks everywhere outside the US. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Pricing will improve over time as supply improves too, but right now it doesn't make a lot of sense if you don't live in North America.
@@JPOG7TVyes that's why but still it's funny since it's already almost a month after it release and they keep selling it on that price
everywhere...
@@auritro3903I hope so but it's already a month but the price stay the same
Took the risk and Pre ordered my limited edition B580 for £250 minutes after the announcement had a lot of doubt from friends and online people it arrived day after launch and each review makes me smile I made the right choice it’s not the best card in the world but for the money it’s fantastic
What CPU did you pair it with? From HUB testing, anything slower than 7600 and the performance tanks, in fact in some games as much as 50% which is utterly atrocious.
@ my old GPU died so I purchased a Ryzen 5 8600g to move to ddr5 for a month before the GPU purchase
@@SlickR12345it's a 1440p GPU. At 1440p the 7600 will not bottleneck this GPU
@@TechGuyBeau You haven't been following this story, have you? 🤦♀
More than happy with mine too. Did the same thing, except I have the Sparkle one.
Paired it with an i5 12600KF.
No real problems so far at 1440p
This is the biggest "arc" twist of all time.
Yes but I think intel will fix it by 6 months
@@mattdawes9698 i aint buying a gpu based on hope
@@aeromotive2 It's still a good GPU as is, i'd buy it over a 4060 or 5060.
@@fatrat92 Naa
@@fatrat92 no one stopping you from wasting your money
I wish you could actually get a B580 for 250$
upd: People from US in the comments think that only US market exists lol
Its 320EU in the old world. Sadness all around.
@@johngrimm1103 Nobody cares about the EU.
$320 here is SEA
i cant even find one here in the pacific
@@Josh-cw8by
Except for the 450 million people in the EU
Thank for the huge amount of benchmarking you're doing, Steve.
Is it just me but the Intel cards just look so neat and clean.
Agreed. Classic, clean look.
I honestly believe Intel needs to get to work on those drivers to try and reduce the CPU overheads.
The Arc B580 looks like a great GPU on paper, but it's being torpedoed by the overhead.
Is that a thing? Or your just saying things?
@@MogCity2it’s a thing, hwunboxed made a video about it…. Unless you have a new gen cpu arc performance is garbage, and if you got a ryzen 7600 or a 14500 or better than why would you waste away cpu performance with a b580 gpu bottleneck
@@MogCity2 in some games the performance drop is massive, up to 20%, so yeah, it's most definitely a thing, watch Steve's videos
The current hubbub over the overhead is that since Intel built the drivers off of the old iGPU ones and they relied more on the CPU (and they just didn't care beyond getting it to work) that it's come to bite them in butt, that same reliance on the CPU, along with other things makes for a bad time with DX11 and Vulkan titles.
There's a Chips and Cheese dive into it on their website where they explain the problem better than I can.
Well one issue may be if they offloaded certain workloads to the cpu/drivers that amd/nvidia can do on the gpu and thus are limited how much optimization can be done.
This GPU doesn't exist at all where I'm from. And of course, the moment i see some stock in neighboring countries, it's way above MSRP.
India?
They're in stock here (UK) but the cheapest I've seen is £318 (~$390)
@Ametisti Good lord, these mark ups are unbearable. What are the overheads?
Same here in Serbia, nonexistant. Here shit is import taxed to shit, like easily $150 more to everything minimum.
I bought my B580 on December 20 in Canada for $350 CAD ($244 US). There were 7 cards in all of Canada when I ordered it (Canada Computers, Memory Express, Best Buy and Amazon) and I haven't seen any available since. The cheapest 4060 I could find is $100 CAD ($70) more and the 7600 is $50 CAD ($35 USD) more than the B580 was. Plus, the ones at these prices are out of stock as well, both then and now. I paired it with a 5700X3D and running it at 1080p. While I'm no expert, it has played everything I've thrown at it with no issues. I have 0 complaints with my purchase and I figure it can only get better as time goes on.
Right now I think the biggest issue for the B580 is the increased prices due to high demand, when this normalizes it's going to be a very good option and makes me very excited for the potential b750 and 770
The biggest issue for the B580 is that Intel is barely producing any of them
If someone is looking for a 9800x3d, they don't buy such cards, so the b580 if it weighs against the 5600 is not a good choice for the target consumer group.
Absolutely. I upgraded to a 5600X back at the end of November, along with nabbing a 6750XT for £310. The cheapest B580 I've seen is £318. 4060's seem to start ~£255 (on offer atm) but that 8GB VRAM is a no-go IMO. I had 8GB on my RX480, if I'm doing infrequent, drastic upgrades I'm not getting the exact same amount of VRAM.
@@Ametisti then go for 4060ti 16gb, in some countries it only cost $380🤣
This is true, but it would make a decent card while you wait for 5090 stock to come in
Agree. I know why they bench like this but I've always had some small miss giving. This intel issue shows the importance of also testing some with an entire system that makes sense.
I still can't believe the Intel GPU can compete and even beat nvidia at a similar price point.
Gotta love competition!
(it's because Intel isn't making any money on them, cuz it's an absolutely massive chip, which is why supply is poor)
Nvidia ain't even trying tbh
I think the age of great value GPUs are over. Because in the past, a card could be priced much lower than its performance, and only the tech-heads would see that it was great value. These days, with channels like Hardware Unboxed, everybody tunes in and knows exactly what cards are the best deals. Which means demand for those cards increase, leading to a price increase.
radeon hd 7950 was the last time i had a card that performed better then advertised and was in the 200 dollar range. the same cam he said with cpus as the older intel amd cpus would once in awhile come out with a budget cpu that punched above its weight.
It's great value because it's so cheap, but it's not. And it beats a 4060 but it doesn't.
It's not a good value, gpu
It's selling close to a 4060
@@JahonCross It's much more expensive than the 4060 where I live. $345 for the B580
@@JahonCross its actually more expensive lol
Cope
@@TechGuyBeau Cope with yourself.
Hello,
in Europe (Romania) a Sparkle Titan B580 (only model which is available) is 330Euro or equivalent 340 US dolars .
MSI Ventus 4060 cost 336Euro or equivalent 346 US dolars.
At this prices ... I would buy a Radeon 7700 XT instead . Sapphire Pure 7700 XT is ~400Euro or 412US dolars
That's for gamers.
For video and/or photo work I would get the B580 as it is very good on that type of work.
In my work scenario which is 3D work(Blender, FreeCAD) and also for LLM usage (ollama) I would get an NVIDIA card but not the 4060. I would get a 4070ti (if you can found them )
or a 4070 super.
I will just wait for the new GPU's (5070, 5070ti) and RX 9070 XT or nonXT to see them in benchmarks.
Maybe when they will be available in stores the old generation Nvidia 407x price will go down.
Or you could wait for the new releases so 7700XT could drop in price
As a Blender user, I agree. 4070ti is what I also aim for.
Goodluck with that, if anything rtx 40 will stay around same price, there's still 3070's being sold new for like 550$, if you want cheap you buy used.
In the NL the cheapest is € 298 from Asrock
Yep, I got a 7700XT for $600 here, 4060 is $400 here in Serbia, and not worth an upgrade to my 6650XT. We have no B580 here.
Well, that's some bad news regarding the supposed "Champion Budget Banger Card" that is now selling at inflated prices.
I really appreciate the unparalleled and timely testing data over your 4 videos on this card. I am going to pick up my B580 today and you've really helped me temper my expectations. As someone who flipped between Team Green and Red for decades at this point I'm just excited to take the gamble on the Intel card!
Thanks Steve! This was a ton of work.
Solid performance. But honestly, the B580 is most likely to be pair with budget CPU builds. Do we see the same overhead issues with intel CPUs?
yes
Anything past a 12600k should be fine
Sure you do, why do gamers think a new GPU would be fully backwards compatible? New software won't run on older hardware because it requires to much coding Cheer up, when Intel gets all the bugs out, the price will skyrocket
@@joemorgan8436 "why do gamers think a new GPU would be fully backwards compatible?"
...Well I don't know. It could be because Nvidia and AMD have normalized that. Sure is interesting how Intel CPUs are pretty damn backwards compatible too; even the "you need Windows 11 for Alder Lake's e-cores" thing doesn't actually play out in reality, they work just fine on W10. And Intel integrated graphics.
"New software won't run on older hardware because it requires to much coding"
...Weird. Not a problem for Nvidia and AMD🤷 Or Intel CPUs. Or Intel integrated graphics.
"when Intel gets all the bugs out"
...If Intel is even still an independent company making their own decisions in the next 3 years. Without a shadow of a doubt, the company with the shakiest future.
Weird cope
The price of $250 sounds nice here in the US, if you could actually get your hands on one for that much. The cheapest card NewEgg has to offer is $270 which can't be bought since it's been out of stock since day 1. The "cheapest" card that's actually in stock is sold by GUNNIR and it's $341 ON SALE and the price only goes up from there. Luckily no one seems to have fallen prey to the price gouging yet as there's no reviews for those models. And to anyone who wants to tell me to just "get it from Micro Center". News flash, Micro Center is a luxury not all of get to experience and they don't sell GPU's online.
All these recent GPU releases calling out fake MSRPs and paper launches - yet no one called out this GPU. Wild level of rose tinted glassary.
I still can't believe Nvidia will launch a RTX5060 with only 8 gigs of Vram. It's 100% DOA. But it will most likely still sell reasonably well, since it will probably be in every budget prebuild system known to man. A lot of new to PC gaming folks who aren't in the know and buy such systems will likely get burned by it and rather switch to consoles. Ridiculous.
0:37 a "slower" CPU like ryzen 5 5600. please 😭. I remember 2022 when a decade old i7 4770 was good enough for budget cards
7700k still works ok for 90% of new games.
Name the game, maybe I have it and can test it for you.
Steve I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for the first Rocket League benchmark I've ever seen on the channel ❤️
Price/performace is finally good again! If only support for old games was as good as with amd or nvidia, but I guess thats realy hard to achieve at this point.
"A slower CPU like the ryzen 5 5600"
Bruh... one of the newest and fastest best value chips out there. It should be enough to tide over anyone for years to come.
Yes. The 5600 (launched in April of 2022) is a decent CPU and too good to be paired with this B580 card. I'd look at a better GPU with which to match it.
In czechia I can get 4060 cheaper than the b580. As such here it's DOA at those costs.
In Poland the same. 4060 iż cheaper, apart from its more reliable and has, better energy efficiency...
Its DOA anywhere.
Given Intel's track record with the improvements we've seen in Arc drivers to date, I'm optimistic for these issues to be fixed.
Please do a 3 month > 6 month >12 month follow up with B580!
Will we get a similar video with r5 5600 or 7600 in the future? But don't push yourself too far
he already did that (5600 that is)
@@jakacresnar5855 I know. I meant a big round up like this with 50 games
Could you please add the test system specs?
It would have been nice to see an AMD GPU in there as well. One that's priced the same as the 4060.
CS2 has massive differences between maps and even locations on maps. Would be interesting to know how and where you test it.
Visual quality also needs to be discussed when VRAM limited. I have a 3070 and have tried running Horizon at 7680x2160 and it will run at 60fps at that resolution but it literally looks like the fighting polygons from N64's super smash bros. Happy to provide video/photo evidence
Muppet!
I still remember when Steve could wear regular clothes instead of hilarious (on him) T-Shits for merch reasons.
This is a much better format than sticking multiple games into a single slide
Wouldn't be too worried with skull and bones since there's like 5 people playing that "AAAA" game and those 5 definitely don't own Arc
4 people. One for each "A" 😅
Although not shown here the 4060 has started to fail to run games 1440p and could do with being looked into. That said a very well done video. Keep up the good work.
It's $345 here, versus $355 for a 4060 or $325 for a 7600.
RX 7600XT 16GB wouldn't have fared much better than the 4060
Intel should package a nice CPU for a discount price with those Arc B580s.
My weird take on this is ....
For Intel on 2nd gen Arc to be playing in the same park as 4060 is a really really good effort. Just to be able to do that is a real achievement. Yes, the benches are sketchy with driver work still needed, but a big step up in hardware and software over the A series. Power usage is still 'not good' vs 4060. But otherwise, to hit that marker is really good. I don't think 250 is a good entry / midrange - but from what I understand intel is losing money on each sale.
I think PC gaming is heading for hard times down the line. If common games won't run well on both older, and new £$250 cards - then devs have a lot of optimising to do. Or lost sales. Their choice..
People aren't going to ditch games due to poor optimization, they're just going to lower their graphics settings. What's more likely to happen is game devs without the time/resources to optimize will probably lean more heavily into super scaling tech.
@@PanderingSlats The gaming industry is already in some pretty serious trouble. You may think that a market where you are being pitched to buy £500+ GPUs and where AAA are $60+ and where the product isn't optimised has a bright future. Lets just say that gaming globally is heading for some heavy headwinds, and these are already visible.
Optimising means using lower resolution textures, limiting the complexity of models and so on.
@@loganmedia4401 While I am going to be between the devil and deep blue sea - yes, but not in those simple terms. This video is interesting as it goes into a few areas that are interesting. Optimising isn't just less texture, or complexity of models.
ua-cam.com/video/l_JAk9xGMvk/v-deo.html
New GPUs should be competing with new GPUs, meaning 5060 and 9060. Them only matching and still somehow losing to a 4060 when paired with a reasonable CPU means a future GPU like a 5060 will decimate the B580 at everything, mind you, that GPU could be releasing as early as this year or early next year. So for me at least is not really a good effort and given the lack of availability at even $270, just a really bad effort.
Excellent work and content. Thank you for the time you spent on this
I like Microsoft Slideshow Simulator 👌👌👌
It's a shame there's a problem with lower end CPU's because a B580 @ $250 with a Ryzen 5 2600, 3600 or equivalent could be amazing.
Be fair, pair it with a 5600 MINIMUM
I mean as someone who built a PC with a 2600, on of my first upgrades wasn’t the gpu, it was updating my bios and getting a 5800x for about $170. Huge upgrade, and let me get higher ram speeds with tighter timings on the dims I already had, so it was a positive feedback loop of improvements. Now I’m finally looking at upgrading my gpu, probably will snag a 9070 xt if it ends up being priced right for its performance.
@@alexmills1329 exactly, i dont think op has enough tech knowledge to know how old even a 3600 has gotten by todays standarts
@ But would a 3600 bottleneck that GPU ? I'm not so certain.
@@Sid-Cannon look at this channel, they directly tested that not long ago. The B580 can bottleneck pretty hard with zen 2 and even zen 3 sometimes in heavy cpu games. Now that only matters if you’re trying to play higher refresh 1080p really so long as you are on zen 3 or better. Zen 2 or older and it was so much slower than a 4060 that it just didn’t make sense.
If they can optimize the driver and cut price to $220 it will be great, I prefer wait n see RX 9060
Love the DATA! Thanks Steve.
Thanks for hooking up all the blue bars
Compared to the decades of nvidia driver updates, I'd still say Intel is providing a decent product that can be improved a fair amount on the driver side. If the B580 is hard to buy and is out of stock often that speaks well for customer belief that the drivers will be updated continuously.
(or it speaks to low volume from Intel)
Steve, I think having a Shorts format for the percentages difference is good. Just my 2 cents.
Just installing 50 games is a chore... Let alone test 50 games...
It’s crazy that Pat Gelsinger used the word Taiwan and cost Intel the ability to pump these B580’s out for cheap. They had something like a 40% discount deal with TSMC and he messed up the one China talk and they axed the entire deal. Intel paid full price for these wafers, and that very likely is why it’s not in stock at $250 everywhere.
this + greedy retailers
I guess you need a 9800x3d to be allowed on the "Ark".
Well - Intel promoting AMD CPUs is something completely new ^^
Well to Intels defense, whoever doesn't have the 9800x3d is the most dumbest gamer ever
@@OriginalUser2023 idk, I'd probably say that someone who buys a new gpu that costs less than their cpu is probably more likely to be "the most dumbest gamer ever"
@@OriginalUser2023 you were born in 2023 so it's fine.
thank you for the testing. i can't help but notice there is no party animals, so might be a little biosed. we all know that is one of the most relevant benchmark games :)
Not suprised, I already told myself that I would be building a new pc if I had to upgrade the gpu with the development of resizable bar (and some other computer developments).
It just proves the same old adage, "You get what you pay for."
Great video. Thanks for your hard work in bringing this to us.
Good effort, Intel. Maybe in a couple of years, you'll offer serious competition to Nvidia.
Most hard working channel. Thanks for the hard work
Nice video. At $250, still seems good.
In Japan, it's about 50,000 yen ($320), but it's more expensive than the RTX 4060 and the 7600 and just slightly cheaper than the 7600xt. I would definitely go for one of those over the b580.
Also, what do you think about doing more medium settings in newer games for this level of a card? There were some results that were just unplayable on both cards, or less than a very nice experience even at 1080p.
People complain that the card is over prices outside of North America. The msrp is 250 dollar = 242 euro + 21% tax = 293 euro + AIB partner tax = ~312 euro. Current prices in Germany: Acer Nitro Arc is 310 euro, Sparkle Arc = 320/330 euro, ASRock Arc B580 Steel Legend = 340, So they are available close to msrp. A rtx4060 is also 300 euro. I think these cards are still to expensive for a the budget target audience. Because they also have to compete with used cards that are cheaper and faster.
Spain. 4060 for 309€ while the B580 is at 404€...
@@byMyXzx1 Who would want to buy a b580 for that price? To me it's a flawed product, the only reason I would buy one (for msrp) would be to help Intel so we have a 3th player in the gpu market. But it would be a very stupid reason because if Intel could ask 1000 euro for a card, they would. They (gpu makers) are all here to earn as much money as possible.
Intel GPUs are trendsetters, in past you allocated 50% of budget on GPU, now you allocate 50% on CPU if you're going for Intel ARC
I'm confused as to why the CPU isn't listed on any of those infographics. Edit: It was the 9800X3D, tested before the known issue. Thanks Voyajer. I knew my skipping around missed it.
They said they used the 9800X3D at 1:00 because the testing was done before they found out about the driver overhead
Why do gamers think a new GPU would be fully backwards compatible? New software won't run on older hardware because it requires to much coding Cheer up, when Intel gets all the bugs out, the price will skyrocket
Because that's a valid excuse for a gen 1 product, not a gen 2 product over 2 years later.
Arc is aud460 compared to 4060 at 406.
They need to control the availability or intel risk being edged out by retailer margins.
There’s no room for error at the low end, things are too volatile and the incumbents are stocked to the teeth keeping prices stable with room to move lower if needed.
Tim was right and this needed to be a $220 GPU at best
Depends where
And it's still cheaper than rtx4060
@@matgaw123 It's not cheaper. It's more expensive most places.
@@matgaw123 where, show me
@@Tom_Quixote is us is cheaper
In the EU it is about the same as rtx4060
And I didn't check elsewhere
@@aeromotive2 it will be once the stock is back and deliveries are done
*I think the best way to quickly compare midrange and older CPU effects on the B580's performance, using an older CPU on a few CPU intensive games would be enough, compared to the Nvidia card in like 5 games.*
Buyers also need to consider power draw when looking at GPU upgrades, as neither one is a good value if it requires a new PSU purchase to allow it to operate. Something that all reviewers seem to overlook.
At the very least, the power draw of these units needs to be stated, and if there’s a significant difference then it should be included as part of the disclaimers at the end.
B580 reign as the budget king lasted all of 2 weeks, and if the 9060 is $300 or less then it will buried in the trashcan of history
Quite true. The B580 is more and more being seen as a massive load of hype.
Don't count your chickens until they've hatched. AMD never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. It'd be amazing if you were right, but I'm not holding my breath.
why no radeon option? :o
Why is there so much noise in the shots with Steve? Was this shot at 3AM?
Anytime when a product is higher then the supposed price means the company or store marks it up
I don't really understand why at the end - after being quite blunt with the results - Steve still arrives at a buy recommendation for the B580 for people who want to spend less than 300 Dollars on a new GPU. The 5600 re-test video clearly showed that Arc has severe issues in MANY titles with anything but a high-end CPU - which people buying sub 300 Dollar GPUs are unlikely to have. Imho the weakness of the B580 with weaker CPUs is more severe than the lack of VRAM on the 4060. If you run out of VRAM playing a new title on your 4060 you will have to spend AT LEAST 400 Dollars to get something with >8GB (which is not a B580) - if your game is unplayable on the B580 because your CPU is overwhelmed you are looking at a substantially higher investment to make it work. So who exactly is the B580 actually good value for? People who have a 7600+ CPU but want to spend less than 300 Dollars on a GPU? Seems like a pretty limited market to me.
Many people like me have decent (recent) cpus with 16 cores that game once in a blue moon. This GPU is perfect for me.
Yeah neither the 4060 or B580 are good choices.
@@AmirKhan-qx2lr I think a gamer focused person will buy a great value CPU and max out the rest of the budget on GPU, for example the 12, 13 or 14600K + 7900 XT or XTX for 1440P. The B580 should be for those with a 5600, on top of it's bad performance with older CPU's, it's also not great with older games either. Lose-lose IMO. The CPU performance segment makes no sense with this low performing GPU.
Well... Probably because, the average cost per frame of the B580 was still the lowest even with the massively reduced FPS when coupled with older CPUs?
@@RockTFKon a gaming focused peron would not go for an intel cpu nowadays.
Thanks Steve, love the content and appreciate the continued updates.
Are there any plans to look at GPU + CPU testing within the price brackets that consumers would more realistically consider as part of upgrades/builds? I'm not saying stop providing data using top CPU when testing a new GPU (or vice versa) but potentially if you tested some entry level and/or mid range products alongside the market leader you would provide better insight (Even if you only did this for a smaller sample of games)
Thanks Steve... so the B580 costs 20% less and has issues in a handful of games due to driver issues, but, the RTX 4060 also has issues in a handful of games - but due to lack of V-ram and a narrow 128 bit memory bus. So, the more expensive RTX card has issues that cannot be fixed and the less expensive B580 with wider memory bus and more V-ram, has issues that Intel may be able to resolve with driver updates? Hmmm... sounds like the RTX 4060 is SOL. I would love to see a B780 or B980... with more of everything....
...you left out the part where the B580 is a turd if it's paired with much less than a 9800X3D...
@RyTrapp0 I didn't leave anything out that was part of this video. You can have an unsubstantiated opinion, but, that won't make you right. It just means your opinion is not meaningful. Have a nice day.
@@SmarterGaming "I didn't leave anything out that was part of this video"
Right - besides the entire intro, where Steve talks about how this is a turd with lower performance CPUs🤣
@@RyTrapp0 I really don't care about your opinion. Maybe you should watch the video he did where he tested it on the Ryzen 5600... He never once said what you are saying. I only intended to address the fact the RTX 4060 has problems that are UNFIXABLE unless you physically mod the card and bios. But, the current issues with be B580 are addressable with a software update. If you can't understand that... it just means your opinion is not based on any facts and is irrelevant to what I said. I am not at all concerned about your thoughts or opinions. But, I hope you have a nice day anyway?
i would still go with the 4060. b580 is way too expensive outside of the US
Yes. Although the 4060 is far from great, it's still a proven GPU for budget purposes. Also, even in the US at this point, scalpers are selling, or trying to sell, this B580 for $340 to $385. It's a pure rip-off.
Intel missed the mark sadly. The overhead issue is exactly the thing it didn't need. Because noone that can afford a higher end cpu will pair it with a b580. The cpus for which this gpu would be fitting are exactly those that stand to suffer the overhead issues. What a shame. I think AMD is going to top this soon.
Yes. It was an inexcusable oversight on Intel's part. It's target audience was budget-minded consumers running older hardware.
That's WITH a strong CPU?
Yes, and pretending it's 250 dollars.
@@Tom_Quixote love it when companies lie through their teeth to us
@@aeromotive2 That's capitalism... sell the cheapest possible product for the highest possible price.
No info on that on any of the slides, smh, videos that could be an article.
A CPU that’s less than 5 years old
I don't have a problem with B580, just that you can't get one under 300 and it's not too bright to run one with 9800X3D. Not too "real world" if you ask me. Thanks Steve.
I have found the hype around the B580 always a bit unwarranted, unfortunately. Especially given the drivers and the pricing in Europe.
Brother we need those Nvdia vs Amd benches
He's already done that I think.
@@llkoojay273 probably yes , but when can we see them that's other question )
What is the system specs?
These type of videos will always be incredibly useful for people. Thanks for the good content and information as always.
The fact that Intel can beat NVidia in any benchmarks is actually remarkable and it shows that Intel's GPU business won't be going away any time soon, and finally we have a third competitor.
B580 is clearly refusing to play Skull and Bones, Starfield and DA Veilguard, saving you from pain! 🤣
Bro the horse died like 2 weeks ago! Now 100 game test, go! Include games from pre 2008 ! Also anyone else think Steve looks pretty tired in this video? Steve to Baelan (Hey buddy, I’m gonna need you to now do this video that takes Quadruple the time of a normal video and says the exact same thing I’ve already said in 5 other videos)
The Intel drivers got confused with the amount of A’s in skull and bones it gets stuck loading quadruple AAAA s in a loop
I love the shade Intel is throwing at Ubisoft with Skull and Bones😂
these kinda benchmarks are not realistic per say. no one gonna pair B580 w/ 9800X3D
100% accurate
yeah and thats why he said if you have a slower cpu the value goes down the toilet.
You shouldn’t be upgrading your GPU if your CPU is too slow for a B580
@ so you are saying i need to afford a 7800x3d to upgrade my gpu from like a gtx 1050? otherwise just stick with 1050?
No, just don't pick a GPU that bottlenecks lower tier CPUs and doesn't achieve the performance you expect
finally getting the hunt showdown representation we deserve
If you are patient you can get the card for $250 in the EU. Still well worth it for people that want more than 8Gb. 12Gb cards start at 30-40% more $$
seeing a trend of the B580 doing better in games made by Playstation and doing poorly in the Xbox made games
Intel didn’t make very many of these because they use a chip size and vram comparable to a 4070 and understand they have to sell it much cheaper because its not as good. I think they were surprised by how well it can actually sell and if they find a demand for these things at closer to $300 they might actually start mass production….. but probably worried street prices gonna tank like alchemist
I am surprised at how far they have come with Ark. They went from a sluggish buggy mess to actually being a viable choice with decent performance per dollar in just a few years. Definitely looking forward to more ARK from Intel in the future! DON'T KILL THE PROGRAM!!!!
Fingers crossed new drivers address at least some of this problem with the B580
Its interesting that b580 works a little betyer on newer titles. I didnt expect to outperform on ratchet and clank.
looking forward to the B770 or whatever moniker they go with. B580 was a great showing at the ~$250 price point and will help intel figure out drivers and the like, which will hopefully pave the way for a clean release of the new flagship.
I love that Intel is becoming a lot more competitive in the GPU space but the majority of consumers will just find the 4060 and 5060 a much safer overall pick.