I unironically think entire PoE2 should be balanced around warrior as golden standard. Basic vanilla warrior mace build is the most balanced class that has exact gameplay that PoE2 was promised to have. Endgame enemies should be adjusted until warrior plays comfortably, then the rest of the classes should be balanced around that level.
I would like it if towers were rarer, but had it so that you could climb floors and the number of tablets you can put in as well as the vision radius increased per floor. You could also make them Act themed boss rushes. Juicing your area would just be doing 1 tower, and climbing like 3-4 floors, and slamming your tablets.
Timestamps: 0:00 Huge PoE2 Patch Upcoming????! 0:48 PoE2 Nerf Predictions FIRST 11:50 PoE2 Change Predictions 26:38 MMOs Versus ARPGs and Learnings 44:50 New Patch Adding NEW CONTENT? 47:45 State of the Game and Elon Musk PoE2 Silliness :( 54:23 What PoE2 Can Learn From Last Epoch and Vice Versa 1:02:39 Lore of PoE2 1:03:33 Final Thoughts on PoE2 Right Now HUGE THANKS TO GAVRYN FOR HOPPING ON! The full stream continued my HCSSF if you're interested: ua-cam.com/users/live1iGiQ8gkx6c?feature=share
The Tower issue should be solved like this: Make 80-90% normal Towers: just slot in the tablet no need to run it. 10-20% of Towers are big Towers with Rare Modifiers and always containing a Boss. Also the Big towers boost the Tablets.
To answer the question what Warrior feels like at endgame; you'll need to spec into Block to make up for armor, you'll need to accept that you won't be able to zoom because all monsters have on death effects which will trigger if you stampede or shield charge into them. Yes you will be able to completely and utterly destroy everything in your path but if you miss a single ranged mob either normal/magic/rare, they will be the death of you because of bad tuning on projectiles all doing max penetrate through armor with max accuracy. You can clear T15, T16 and chaos tower, but every map feels like a gamble as to whether you'll get the wrong type of mob, with the wrong type of modifier, with the wrong type of on death effect and projectiles.
On death effects are interesting when you're fighting multiple mobs. You kill one, it explodes, now that area is denied and you have to fight the remaining dude in the smaller area you have. That's neat. Waiting for explosions after death to loot is dumb though. Towers: activating a tower points towards the nearest citadel.
Being completely honest, class balance is FAR from the biggest issue with the game right now. What is even the point in having a variety of builds if the base endgame is so tedious and unfun. That is where all focus should be from GGG IMO
Great Podcast again, it’s getting better and better, keep it up A lot of Human enemies use Playerskills, so in regards to Daggers, Claws, Swords we’ve have already some impression of what they will be able todo can‘t wait to Ninja
Make towers a wave based system. The further u go, the more precursors you can put in. Have a boss at the very end to maximize tower range and precursors
After leveling two characters with Maces, I started to play Witch and Ranger, and it baffles me that Supercharged Slam got nerfed on day one for the reason of "We don't want an ability to be so strong it feels mandatory to use" when Lightning Arrow and Skeleton Reavers are so insanely overpowered that it feels like a self imposed nerf to not use them the moment you get them until you get a very specific and refined build. I hope the Infernalist Demon Form bug I found get fixed at least. After respec'ing out of Demon Form, I can no longer use Solar Orb. Used it to Font of Rage my Reavers and Flame Blast as a spell from myself. I'm also hoping that they remove the stupid armour mechanic that makes your armour worse the more damage you take, it never worked in PoE1, not sure why anyone thought it would work in PoE2. Getting hit for 100 and having 80% DR and getting hit for 1000 and having 40% DR just shouldn't be a thing, it's so backwards. Maces also are in a horrid place for usability. They feel good to use but just aren't good. They just need to tune them to what quarterstaves are. quarterstaves seem like they're probably 90% of Melee by now. So either Maces are where they want Melee to be, or quarterstaves are where they want melee to be. So either quarterstaves will get nerfed through the floor or Maces will get buffed by insane amounts. I also feel like the campaign felt so good to go through, but when I compare it to endgame is, it feels so backwards. For maps to match what the campaign felt like, they need to double or triple the HP but reduce the damage of enemies to 1/2 or 1/3 of the damage. The threat should be enemies as a group like the campaign, rather than white-blue-yellow mobs just one shotting people. They did say the goal was to have only bosses being potential one-shot threats, but it's been the opposite to me. On-death effects are super awful too, like you both mentioned. Especially when the visibility can be so low on them. Beyond that, I'm hoping we get Swords. I want more melee skills.
I feel like the only thing that could make mace skills better while retaining the slow chunky damage theme, would be to incorporate some defensive layer into the skills. I don't want two handed maces to be fast like a quarters staff, and increasing the damage isn't really an option when bosses already melt. So, the defensive component could be the primary differentiator. They could add a % reduced damage taken buff during slam and charge up animations. Also, leap, stampede, and shield charge could use some polishing. The leap travel time needs to be faster than actual running. Why can't I leap over enemies? It feels half the time I click somewhere I end up 5 meters short of my destination because some white mob blocked the path.
Personally, I don't think Archmage should receive much of a nerf. Maybe a little, but what's really needed is better alternatives to Archmage. Why don't we have a Spirit Skill that scales Ignite or various elemental Magnitudes? I would love a Spirit skill that scales Ignite magnitude based on total mana, as an example.
Speaking of on-death effects, why not just make them non damaging ones? Like drop some frozen on mud terrain on the ground that slows you down, or lowers your damage/defenses or something? Pretty decent middle ground that GGG could agree on maybe.
it is not only the resourses the BM uses that are crazy, the mana cost in general is soooooooo out of proportion that it is insane. This is the reason you only see viable spell builds with Archmage
Looking at armor damage mitigation chart, simply increasing the amount prevented by 2 classes (1000 armor mitigates 16% damage from 1000 damage hit to 50% damage) is a step for right direction. I also prefer boosting less viable layers to same viability as ES, Mind Over Matter. If life bonuses of str were to be increased, then it forces every life build into str stacking, so there needs to have life synergestic nodes on tree. Maybe more life regen, life on block or life recouped based on damage mitigated?
I appreciate the weight the single death system brings, because it makes things feel more hardcore and less free. But on the flip side, part of why hard boss fights are fun is getting beat down, learning from mistakes, and going again. So while I don't want to go back to 6 tries per map, I wouldn't mind a system that gives you one last chance after you die. Close all but the last portal, and give people one last shot at redemption. Other than that, I'll just say I definitely enjoyed the slower and more deliberate pacing of the early acts than the more zoomy endgame. I'm hoping they find a way to reign things in, because as it stands now, it barely feels like a new game after a point.
This is my take aswel. Xp loss on death is annoying but needed, otherwise you could just brute force your way to 100 without any real skill. High levels mean something. Every time I get a level now its like the best thing ever and super satisfying. I don't like loosing a map/boss on death though. Just let us use our 6 portals up and then we loose the map. A lot of people are just paying others to run a pinnacle boss for them because the risk is too great. Loosing a breach stone after grinding hours and hours or running the sekhemas trial for an hour to get your final ascendancy just to get a "you loose" screen pop up just sucks really. Something needs changing when you'd rather just pay someone to do it for you as apposed to having your time wasted. So that defeats the whole point of earning this end game content and engaging with it properly.
you mentioned mechanics for towers - I could get behind this idea. Like a crafting mechanics to help with some deterministic crafting. Like a harvest bench type affair. That is available when you click the end of tower. I could see a nice link with betrayal mechanics. Like a mini game within the map system.
There are so many big things that need to be addressed, I honestly have no idea what they will be focusing on as top priorities at this time. The big ones of course are optimiziation issues with servers, console performance problems, constant crashes; these are probably the first issues that need to be dealt with because it makes the game unplayable for a lot of people who paid to be able to play. Then for gameplay, basically warrior class as a whole, minions AI, death penalties being unbalanced (especially given current performance issues for many people), majority of maps being boring/tedious, too much RNG involved everywhere within game mechanics, POE tradesite update, many QOL measures from POE 1 being removed from POE2. These are just some of the things I see mentioned over and over again that I agree with. On top of all this, they still need to finish the rest of the acts and characters and create a new endgame to replace the current one for full access since the one right now is a placeholder apparently? I don't know if they will be able to fit all that in 1 year. I will see what things are coming in the next few patches to see how this will play out, but if all that the patches do is just nerfing a bunch of builds and not addressing the actual problems, we are in for a rough and long journey to full release.
What a pleasant discussion. Both dudes feel just super nice. I listen to podcasts while working and this one is now my favorite. Good vibes and positive feels is what the world needs more. Thank you Tri and Gavryn!
Evasion needs a higher level penalty, Bell needs a cooldown and a damage nerf(perhaps an ICD on the proc), with the new gem system you're able to stack so many support gems ontop of eachother there is no way thats ever going to be balanced without hurting the inidividual abilities
Quarterstaff with Herald of Ice and Thunder is the most fun I have had playing the game. It works, it taught me a lot about the games core mechanics. And it falls apart when bossing so it has its cons. Hope they don't go nuclear with them and somehow keep the feel when they proc.
@@radio671 Just remember you are playing an early access version of the game. Balancing will happen a lot most of the time this will include nerfing your favourite build. Stormweaver, Invoker and deadeye make up like 75% of the player base so its obvious these builds are getting nerfed. I play Sparkweaver and I just know my build is about to get gutted, comes with the territory. Ice monk is probably the second most op build in the game so you can bet its going to be tuned down bit. Another thing to keep in mind is that when the game fully releases and even maybe before that (Early access leagues) our current characters will be locked behind EA and basically have to start fresh anyway.
One more thing to mention monsters in on going telegraph animation should not teleport with ghost walker mod, Imagine some big rare preparing big slam you know you have to dodge and you surely stand miles away from that monster and you think you are safe, guess what that rare can just teleport on you directly miliseconds away from executing the slam and kill you in a blink with no way to avoid
i dont think there is anything wrong with es. es has no recovery in poe2. no leech, no on kill and you have to invest much more skillpoints into it then in poe1. a buff to armor would not be bad, yes.
@@RoeDeerMusic I think the main problem is the imbalance between ES/AR/EV, the mechanics need a bit of tweaking. Comparing it to poe1 is not really a way to go about it
I wouldn't be surprised if they announce on Sunday that they are only nerfing the extreme things, like Herald of Ice and maybe some overused unique items, but long-term will focus on just getting the game done. I think it's kind of a waste of time to balance if we don't even have all the classes, uniques, bases and so on in the game yet. They take a week of multiple devs to balance a bunch of things, 3 months later they add 2 new classes and suddenly they have to rebalance what they just balanced. Seems kind of silly to me, but I'm sure they are going to do a great job 🙏
I suspect you're underselling the changes. 0.1.0g/h/i/j/etc can account for all balance changes to classes and adjustments to endgame systems. That we're getting 0.1.1 suggests content. My bet is on either 3rd ascendancy for existing classes, or one-or-more new classes. Keep in mind that they _floated_ a 6 (to 12) month early access. If 6 months was ever going to be a realistic possibility, they'd have to push a new class every month.
@@brian5948 ^_^ they _might_ have a full reveal and complete community podcast with both Jonathan and Mark _just_ to talk about balance and how their Christmas was.
If they nerf oneshot builds, they need to adress the bosses. I tried arbiter 3 times with my minion arsonist build and failed 3 times due to insane requirements to live in the fire ball and carpet bomb phase. I eventually said, fuck it. paid about 2 div to convert my build to ice mages, dropped all utility and went full gigadonk damage and killed him in a second.
I rage quit today for a bit after making it 90% of the way through the third floor of the trial of sekhemas on my lvl 69 monk and entering the next room to find I had 0 honor out of nowhere. I had almost 7000 when I pressed the door. My only guess was that the "random minor affliction" did this to me. Or it's a bug. I'm thinking bug. But whatever it was, it pissed me off. Came back an hour later and did the trial successfully at least. But I felt cheated on that first run
Literally anyone I hear talk about wild star says the same thing that it was awesome and wish it was still around 😭😭😭😭 I hope the private server gets finished
everyones talking nerf this and nerf that when i actually feel like the current top builds being invoker/deadeye/stormweaver are an actual benchmark for how a build should operate as opposed to making then trash like other class choices
Counterpoint: Those builds already have a place in PoE 1. Why even make a separate game with the promise of a slower and more meaningful combat if endgame builds become the same zoom-zoom screen clearing and skipping boss mechanics by one-shotting them? They've shown that a slow and methodical ARPG can work with the campaign. IMO I would like to see the endgame brought closer to that state.
@@LazyPandaBum I agree. I've had significantly more fun in the early campaign (acts 1-3) than I did later in the game. Once it got to the point where things started zooming, it lost that interesting arpg/souls hybrid feel, and just reverted to PoE 1. I would even go so far as to say I had more fun clearing ToS on warrior than I did blasting through content on monk or sorc. Personally, I enjoyed the first 3 acts of PoE2 more than any other arpg experience I've had to date.
@@LazyPandaBum its quite evident when start doing activities like simulacrum you need to be putting out ALOT of damage to succeed. having done all the content in the game as of this moment its 100% a matter of most classes being weak as opposed to the aforementioned classes being overpowered. my spark says around 150k on the tooltip and simulacrum is still a tough encounter. you honestly just sound like that typical reddit guy who got to maps, struggled to progress/sustain and starts coping in any way they can
@@TheDeadlockArchives I am in that scenario too with spark at 150k+ and unable to complete simulacrum. But I don't think that's a build/character issue but the mechanism itself. The mobs spawning that is invul for that first second and pushing you to the ends of the map and simultaneously cornering you amongst other mobs and fatal projectiles, it's a bit much. The game itself requires a rebalance, not the builds. The current 'meta' isn't exactly what GGG had in store or rather what they announced POE2 is supposed to be, but it's a good measure to what the state of the game is at the moment. It's a waiting moment for what GGG plans to do going forward.
I think they're gonna just make it to where you can only have one bell skill instead of running four. You cap their damage by capping their options kinda deal. Seen multiple ppl run multiple charged staff skills. I think one of each skill should be enough to work with. Multiple of the same skill shouldn't exist on builds unless stated otherwise but who knows what they'll do. Could buff everything else and see a better outcome as well.
Be a shame if they nerfed alot of this stuff. The interaction between the heralds is fun. I think they should just buff the things that are lacking and maybe tweak down the super overpowered things like archmage. Turn the uber boss life up. Nerfing the fuck out of everything is just going to leave a sour taste in everyones mouth and take 1/2 the fun out of the game. At the end of the day we play for fun right.
Instead of nerfs i prefer buffs, so if the problem is that energy shield is so good, make armor and evasion better. I do not want current armor to be the poster child for evasion and energy shield nerfs.
If they make arcmge spirit requirement higher, it would be better that way, so people are locked into using a scepter off hand that would reduce the damage. maybe lower the percentage by 1. Monk needs rework, everyone using that class one shooting everything is stupid.
so monk 1 shot the whole map with one click/ blinking the entire map 1 shoting everything in couple seconds is okay, but when other builds do it it's not? make it make sense.
I had a dream of having PoE2 and D4 chaining seasons together to give us illimited gaming, but now they got back from vacation and announce the information on the patch 1 week before D4 season and probably a patch that will land in a similar date on the release of the season and I'm currently giga dissapointed. They had the ways to be different and don't encourage and force ridiculous rivalities instead of focusing on making all have fun and seems they're moving into the just release at the same time stuff. :/ I trully hope i'm wrong here.
My thing is they clearly made a ring for herald of ice, we all know it. If they go in and then make herald of ice no longer inflict ailments you might as well get rid of the ring. It's just like the temporalis and blink thing. Maybe they can make it so herald of ice can only do chill and thunder can only do shock. That will make them not play with each other but still keep the clearly intended interaction with the ring. Also without a physical based acenency on monk going ice strike or tempest was the real only valid option, so i dont see them going and nerfing those too hard, i would love to use whirling assault but atm its just not very viable with what we have. I hope they buff stuff also that needs buffed and just not nerf, if everything plays like warrior its gonna be rough time till they buff
i just did against the darkness run on my bloodmage, and i'd like to vent more about how poorly designed bloodmage is. i cleared sure i overgear the content greatly, but i almost ran out of hp pots and i never got hit once because the dr he gets makes my costs for my spells way higher than i could leech back. having to use hp pots as if they're mana pots and still having to worry about mana is so troll.
I hope they dont remove the one chance for maps, I feel like the game is much better like this than the 6 Portals in poe 1. I only wish they kept that thing about closing the way when you fail s map
if they slow the game down anymore IDK if I will be able to play. I work 12hrs a day and maybe have the time to play for an hr after t hat if I'm not to tired.
i cant see it for the witch with the thousand minions standing about and the sorc with the firewall sometimes party is nightmare and the lag is intense af without the floor on death effects
I just desperately want to know WHEN, like i know they're announcing and doing the interview on Sunday but we don't know when the patch is dropping yet. Also I'm SO INTERESTED to know if druid and huntress are making it in this patch, if maybe they'll include act 4, if they'll be adding or changing major things about end game. Like the build stuff whatever we know things are getting nerfed who cares, I wanna know what kind of systems changes are coming!!
@JoshTheMadLad I like to live that way yes :) and if we don't get any major new content and it's strictly balance changes I won't be disappointed either :) but also I don't think they'd be holding a livestream going over the changes and then doing a follow up interview on a second live stream if they didn't have some sort of larger changes coming beyond some nerfs and fixes. Totally happy to be wrong! But also optimistic and excited!
the problem isnt archmage. its the mana cost of skills. if you have to have a 3k mana pool to cast your spells you might has well just go archmage. flat mana cost scaling with gem levels where you get all your flat damage from gem levels was doomed to fail from a balance point from the start. tune down archmage 30% and lower mana cost and other spell styles will come out.
Something not discussed is that the maps themselves are awful. There is a handful of maps that are enjoyable to run - Without enough agency. Additionally there is a lot of QOL that makes endgame painful right now. Having to run those towers is a waste of time. They could literally make it so that towers are just activated by default when you reach them for tablets. So much ground clutter means if you use any movement skills (tempest flurry etc) with AS you are constantly stopped and caught on random rocks and other assets. All of this stuff contributes to a lot of frustration. It is similar to the dodge roll blocks that existed before they adjusted the block radius to zero.
I want trinity support in the game, the best support gem ever. You guys give me an idea for an ascendancy, because the game has already a pause technology in it how about a shadow rogue that can basically pause the game and the character and plant some mines or traps and then when you place the last one the game continues and they explode, how about that?
I know that most veterans agree to make nurfs, but honestly sprk was there in PoE one, and is fun to play and you still die not like Elon's monk with someone who has no clue 😅
I hope they don't nerf everything in to the ground. Try fixing the really under performing stuff for a patch and see how things settle out. I'm very skeptical of "everyone is playing one or two things!" arguments in a game with only 1/3rd of it's available skill / class options and some obviously under performing stuff. I just don't understand why everyone wants a slower game. Just to be different? Name a popular ARPG where the goal isn't to blast.
The upcoming patch 0.1.1 will be a shock to many because I think GGG will announce that the full game will not be released in 6 months rather 10 months from now, probably later. So many things that don't work in poe2 temporarily because it's a game in development =)
Well they did say 6 to 12 months until full release, so that wouldn't be a shock. I think most people expected it to be a longer, rather than shorter, wait
Id happy just to get a skill point after doing 100’s of maps. Or better gear. Something to feel like im progressing. At this point it feels like the game is bugged on console with the complete lack of anything
You one of those content creators that seek the opinion of others but never really give your own. Yes I understand you want to hear someone else's side of things, but I think you too over the top and should be concentrating more on your own views rather than suckihg up to others just to get buddies. Be you. Do you . Don't always have a sheep mentality. This is positive criticism ,so don't get offended. Let them come to you for ideas and see if they are truly concerned about your individual ideas in the gaming world and on poe 2 more specifically.
Monks are fine as they are (besides putting more than two bells (with over abundance)), same as heralds, fine as they are too, decreasing the damage would be one thing, but getting rid of the tech will suck bad, let us shatter things and chain-reaction stuff, otherwise the only mapper possible will be using cold skills and the herald of ice ring, then it’s not fun. Let we all do everything in our own way, every class should have fun. Nerf warrior lol jk
GGG are playing a dangerous game if they are as heavy handed with the nerfs as they were with trigger skills they could alienate 48% of their playerbase.
As someone whose played warrior as a warbringer where alot of things are flat out broken and was still able to complete all trials and can comfortably clear t18 maps I feel while everyone complains this is where they want the power level to sit so trying to be prepared for your well deserved nerfs everyone, the games still fun and I would say even more fun at a bit slower pace, you want one button blasts gameplay go play poe1
BIG nerfs most likely and I really do hope they fix the terrible drop in FPS and performance issues so many experience ingame. And the gamefreeze which cause you to do a hard reset of the pc. If they do reduce the dmg-output/nerfs on different classes, I hope they balance it towards the strenght and dmg at/from the mobs/bosses.
sometimes its hard to see on death effects in parties what with all the minions standing about and the sorc doing her thing with the firewalls and all the other stuff that goes on with the spark christ.
One portal is the biggest flaw of the game and any "argument" revolving around balancing rewards is fundamentally flawed. The point is, gear drops are already too rare for proper progress (ask non 24/7 SSF players), so we're only talking currency. And it makes no difference at all if we find 200 ex and 1 div in 1 hour or in 100 hours for purchase prices of actual gear would simply adjust. If that's the argument, they're hiding behind nothing. I didn't select hardcore at character creation, so I don't want pseudo-hardcore forced on me.
Im just dying to play my god damn duelist... the only other character that interests me is my blood mage. I agree that the direction they should take the game is not the godlike late game diablo/poe 1 adhd spazz screen clear bullshit... it turns every single character into essentially the same thing just with different visual flavor. I really REALLY like the feel of early to mid game where you're actively interacting with every ability/attack like a souls game. One of the biggest gripes i had with diablo 4's endgame was Uber bosses 1 shotting you with shitty hitboxes. This model FORCED you to play broken insta melting builds or just pretend you beat the endgame without killing them. My blood necro at the time was one of those classes that couldn't clear her. While it may have changed im so turned off by diablo that I'll never go back regardless of how they change because I dont have faith in the developers universally. Poe is different, i feel and have faith that they will get it right.
The only thing i wanna they to address are those Rare with 7 affixes in a cocaine trip running at 200 KM/H at you, and you cant do anything about it because the Rare is untangeable or whatever is call when you cant hit them far from you.
It's proximal tangibility. And that combined with mana drain is just wild stuff. I keep my basic skill on my bar solely for when I run into a mana drain. Because they almost always are fast af and there's no escaping the drain.
A lot of stuff will probably get nerfed. POE 2 is supposed to be tactical slow paced arpg. And after a few weeks of player tinkering poe 2 reverted back to poe 1 speed gameplay.
Thanks so much for having me Tri, this was a blast and big congrats on 50k!!🍻
Use the video
You're a good dude
you should really consider doing video podcasts instead of just audio. It makes the conversation much more natural :)
But great talk otherwise, thanks
I unironically think entire PoE2 should be balanced around warrior as golden standard. Basic vanilla warrior mace build is the most balanced class that has exact gameplay that PoE2 was promised to have. Endgame enemies should be adjusted until warrior plays comfortably, then the rest of the classes should be balanced around that level.
Even warrior has many one button kill everything builds, heck there is even a 0 button kill everything build, you literally just run around.
I would like it if towers were rarer, but had it so that you could climb floors and the number of tablets you can put in as well as the vision radius increased per floor. You could also make them Act themed boss rushes. Juicing your area would just be doing 1 tower, and climbing like 3-4 floors, and slamming your tablets.
What a great idea
Timestamps:
0:00 Huge PoE2 Patch Upcoming????!
0:48 PoE2 Nerf Predictions FIRST
11:50 PoE2 Change Predictions
26:38 MMOs Versus ARPGs and Learnings
44:50 New Patch Adding NEW CONTENT?
47:45 State of the Game and Elon Musk PoE2 Silliness :(
54:23 What PoE2 Can Learn From Last Epoch and Vice Versa
1:02:39 Lore of PoE2
1:03:33 Final Thoughts on PoE2 Right Now
HUGE THANKS TO GAVRYN FOR HOPPING ON! The full stream continued my HCSSF if you're interested: ua-cam.com/users/live1iGiQ8gkx6c?feature=share
The Tower issue should be solved like this: Make 80-90% normal Towers: just slot in the tablet no need to run it. 10-20% of Towers are big Towers with Rare Modifiers and always containing a Boss. Also the Big towers boost the Tablets.
and shut those people down who say this is too hard, just do it GGG!!
To answer the question what Warrior feels like at endgame; you'll need to spec into Block to make up for armor, you'll need to accept that you won't be able to zoom because all monsters have on death effects which will trigger if you stampede or shield charge into them. Yes you will be able to completely and utterly destroy everything in your path but if you miss a single ranged mob either normal/magic/rare, they will be the death of you because of bad tuning on projectiles all doing max penetrate through armor with max accuracy. You can clear T15, T16 and chaos tower, but every map feels like a gamble as to whether you'll get the wrong type of mob, with the wrong type of modifier, with the wrong type of on death effect and projectiles.
On death effects are interesting when you're fighting multiple mobs. You kill one, it explodes, now that area is denied and you have to fight the remaining dude in the smaller area you have. That's neat. Waiting for explosions after death to loot is dumb though.
Towers: activating a tower points towards the nearest citadel.
Being completely honest, class balance is FAR from the biggest issue with the game right now. What is even the point in having a variety of builds if the base endgame is so tedious and unfun. That is where all focus should be from GGG IMO
Great Podcast again, it’s getting better and better, keep it up
A lot of Human enemies use Playerskills, so in regards to Daggers, Claws, Swords we’ve have already some impression of what they will be able todo
can‘t wait to Ninja
Make towers a wave based system. The further u go, the more precursors you can put in. Have a boss at the very end to maximize tower range and precursors
After leveling two characters with Maces, I started to play Witch and Ranger, and it baffles me that Supercharged Slam got nerfed on day one for the reason of "We don't want an ability to be so strong it feels mandatory to use" when Lightning Arrow and Skeleton Reavers are so insanely overpowered that it feels like a self imposed nerf to not use them the moment you get them until you get a very specific and refined build.
I hope the Infernalist Demon Form bug I found get fixed at least. After respec'ing out of Demon Form, I can no longer use Solar Orb. Used it to Font of Rage my Reavers and Flame Blast as a spell from myself.
I'm also hoping that they remove the stupid armour mechanic that makes your armour worse the more damage you take, it never worked in PoE1, not sure why anyone thought it would work in PoE2. Getting hit for 100 and having 80% DR and getting hit for 1000 and having 40% DR just shouldn't be a thing, it's so backwards.
Maces also are in a horrid place for usability. They feel good to use but just aren't good. They just need to tune them to what quarterstaves are. quarterstaves seem like they're probably 90% of Melee by now. So either Maces are where they want Melee to be, or quarterstaves are where they want melee to be. So either quarterstaves will get nerfed through the floor or Maces will get buffed by insane amounts.
I also feel like the campaign felt so good to go through, but when I compare it to endgame is, it feels so backwards. For maps to match what the campaign felt like, they need to double or triple the HP but reduce the damage of enemies to 1/2 or 1/3 of the damage. The threat should be enemies as a group like the campaign, rather than white-blue-yellow mobs just one shotting people. They did say the goal was to have only bosses being potential one-shot threats, but it's been the opposite to me.
On-death effects are super awful too, like you both mentioned. Especially when the visibility can be so low on them.
Beyond that, I'm hoping we get Swords. I want more melee skills.
I feel like the only thing that could make mace skills better while retaining the slow chunky damage theme, would be to incorporate some defensive layer into the skills. I don't want two handed maces to be fast like a quarters staff, and increasing the damage isn't really an option when bosses already melt. So, the defensive component could be the primary differentiator. They could add a % reduced damage taken buff during slam and charge up animations. Also, leap, stampede, and shield charge could use some polishing. The leap travel time needs to be faster than actual running. Why can't I leap over enemies? It feels half the time I click somewhere I end up 5 meters short of my destination because some white mob blocked the path.
The end game is fundamentally broken....but the combat is fundamentally amazing.
Personally, I don't think Archmage should receive much of a nerf. Maybe a little, but what's really needed is better alternatives to Archmage. Why don't we have a Spirit Skill that scales Ignite or various elemental Magnitudes? I would love a Spirit skill that scales Ignite magnitude based on total mana, as an example.
Speaking of on-death effects, why not just make them non damaging ones? Like drop some frozen on mud terrain on the ground that slows you down, or lowers your damage/defenses or something? Pretty decent middle ground that GGG could agree on maybe.
it is not only the resourses the BM uses that are crazy, the mana cost in general is soooooooo out of proportion that it is insane. This is the reason you only see viable spell builds with Archmage
They should add a currency tab and premium tab as rewards for beating the campaign, and/or make the stacks of currencies in tabs be infinite/9999
Looking at armor damage mitigation chart, simply increasing the amount prevented by 2 classes (1000 armor mitigates 16% damage from 1000 damage hit to 50% damage) is a step for right direction. I also prefer boosting less viable layers to same viability as ES, Mind Over Matter. If life bonuses of str were to be increased, then it forces every life build into str stacking, so there needs to have life synergestic nodes on tree. Maybe more life regen, life on block or life recouped based on damage mitigated?
Was a super good podcast, Thanks Tri
U are doing awsome job since first infos about PoE2, gz man, u rly deserve it:).
I appreciate the weight the single death system brings, because it makes things feel more hardcore and less free. But on the flip side, part of why hard boss fights are fun is getting beat down, learning from mistakes, and going again. So while I don't want to go back to 6 tries per map, I wouldn't mind a system that gives you one last chance after you die. Close all but the last portal, and give people one last shot at redemption.
Other than that, I'll just say I definitely enjoyed the slower and more deliberate pacing of the early acts than the more zoomy endgame. I'm hoping they find a way to reign things in, because as it stands now, it barely feels like a new game after a point.
This is my take aswel. Xp loss on death is annoying but needed, otherwise you could just brute force your way to 100 without any real skill. High levels mean something. Every time I get a level now its like the best thing ever and super satisfying. I don't like loosing a map/boss on death though. Just let us use our 6 portals up and then we loose the map. A lot of people are just paying others to run a pinnacle boss for them because the risk is too great. Loosing a breach stone after grinding hours and hours or running the sekhemas trial for an hour to get your final ascendancy just to get a "you loose" screen pop up just sucks really. Something needs changing when you'd rather just pay someone to do it for you as apposed to having your time wasted. So that defeats the whole point of earning this end game content and engaging with it properly.
Well, it is early access after all. The whole point being that by launch things like campaign, endgame and balance will have been tuned.
you mentioned mechanics for towers - I could get behind this idea. Like a crafting mechanics to help with some deterministic crafting. Like a harvest bench type affair. That is available when you click the end of tower. I could see a nice link with betrayal mechanics. Like a mini game within the map system.
I hope demon form witch doesn’t get nerfed. I switched from ice strike monk to the infernalist and it’s been pretty nutty.
The one portal system is so bad, I just want to retry what I failed.
I wish huntress come asap to the game. Can't wait
Subbed :) Congrats on 50k!
At lvl 96 1% xp took me a full map with 10 breaches spawning at lvl 80 , it was crazy
There are so many big things that need to be addressed, I honestly have no idea what they will be focusing on as top priorities at this time. The big ones of course are optimiziation issues with servers, console performance problems, constant crashes; these are probably the first issues that need to be dealt with because it makes the game unplayable for a lot of people who paid to be able to play. Then for gameplay, basically warrior class as a whole, minions AI, death penalties being unbalanced (especially given current performance issues for many people), majority of maps being boring/tedious, too much RNG involved everywhere within game mechanics, POE tradesite update, many QOL measures from POE 1 being removed from POE2. These are just some of the things I see mentioned over and over again that I agree with. On top of all this, they still need to finish the rest of the acts and characters and create a new endgame to replace the current one for full access since the one right now is a placeholder apparently? I don't know if they will be able to fit all that in 1 year. I will see what things are coming in the next few patches to see how this will play out, but if all that the patches do is just nerfing a bunch of builds and not addressing the actual problems, we are in for a rough and long journey to full release.
What a pleasant discussion. Both dudes feel just super nice. I listen to podcasts while working and this one is now my favorite. Good vibes and positive feels is what the world needs more. Thank you Tri and Gavryn!
it's annoying, no edge or personality.
@@Ugoofy1To each his own. Luckily you are not forced to watch this.
your parents never loved you
wait aren't the patch notes already up? why we predicting
They have said that they dont like the instant buying off items cus they want the best way to get items is of the ground and stuff you find yourself.
Evasion needs a higher level penalty, Bell needs a cooldown and a damage nerf(perhaps an ICD on the proc), with the new gem system you're able to stack so many support gems ontop of eachother there is no way thats ever going to be balanced without hurting the inidividual abilities
every map should have a boss! It feels like something missing it doesent feel that you completed the map and feels empty!
Quarterstaff with Herald of Ice and Thunder is the most fun I have had playing the game. It works, it taught me a lot about the games core mechanics. And it falls apart when bossing so it has its cons. Hope they don't go nuclear with them and somehow keep the feel when they proc.
if they nerf this ill be pissed off, what happened to letting builds be fun
@@radio671 Just remember you are playing an early access version of the game. Balancing will happen a lot most of the time this will include nerfing your favourite build. Stormweaver, Invoker and deadeye make up like 75% of the player base so its obvious these builds are getting nerfed. I play Sparkweaver and I just know my build is about to get gutted, comes with the territory. Ice monk is probably the second most op build in the game so you can bet its going to be tuned down bit. Another thing to keep in mind is that when the game fully releases and even maybe before that (Early access leagues) our current characters will be locked behind EA and basically have to start fresh anyway.
One more thing to mention monsters in on going telegraph animation should not teleport with ghost walker mod, Imagine some big rare preparing big slam you know you have to dodge and you surely stand miles away from that monster and you think you are safe, guess what that rare can just teleport on you directly miliseconds away from executing the slam and kill you in a blink with no way to avoid
58:07 for some reason people always separate scum bots, flipper bots and trade bots in their head
Energy shield, damage numbers, and armor are things that come to mind.
i dont think there is anything wrong with es. es has no recovery in poe2. no leech, no on kill and you have to invest much more skillpoints into it then in poe1.
a buff to armor would not be bad, yes.
@@RoeDeerMusic If ES doesnt get any direct changes grim feast will be gutted completely.
@@RoeDeerMusic I think the main problem is the imbalance between ES/AR/EV, the mechanics need a bit of tweaking. Comparing it to poe1 is not really a way to go about it
I wouldn't be surprised if they announce on Sunday that they are only nerfing the extreme things, like Herald of Ice and maybe some overused unique items, but long-term will focus on just getting the game done. I think it's kind of a waste of time to balance if we don't even have all the classes, uniques, bases and so on in the game yet.
They take a week of multiple devs to balance a bunch of things, 3 months later they add 2 new classes and suddenly they have to rebalance what they just balanced.
Seems kind of silly to me, but I'm sure they are going to do a great job 🙏
I suspect you're underselling the changes. 0.1.0g/h/i/j/etc can account for all balance changes to classes and adjustments to endgame systems. That we're getting 0.1.1 suggests content. My bet is on either 3rd ascendancy for existing classes, or one-or-more new classes.
Keep in mind that they _floated_ a 6 (to 12) month early access. If 6 months was ever going to be a realistic possibility, they'd have to push a new class every month.
lol I admire your optimism
@@brian5948 ^_^ they _might_ have a full reveal and complete community podcast with both Jonathan and Mark _just_ to talk about balance and how their Christmas was.
archmage can get 4% as extra (from 8) per 100 mana and still be good
If they nerf oneshot builds, they need to adress the bosses. I tried arbiter 3 times with my minion arsonist build and failed 3 times due to insane requirements to live in the fire ball and carpet bomb phase. I eventually said, fuck it. paid about 2 div to convert my build to ice mages, dropped all utility and went full gigadonk damage and killed him in a second.
Same here
im fullly prepared for ggg to nerf fun out of the game. and over half the player base to quit
To correct Tri they played and got a lot of influence from Guild Wars 1, so maybe there is some carryover to GW 2 that you're thinking of?
I rage quit today for a bit after making it 90% of the way through the third floor of the trial of sekhemas on my lvl 69 monk and entering the next room to find I had 0 honor out of nowhere. I had almost 7000 when I pressed the door. My only guess was that the "random minor affliction" did this to me. Or it's a bug. I'm thinking bug. But whatever it was, it pissed me off. Came back an hour later and did the trial successfully at least. But I felt cheated on that first run
INB4 another 2 year vacation before the patch drops. /s, excited to see what they have in store for us (map tab?!)
maybe we will get some chaos skills for quarterstaff
I'm more scared of a dead monster than a live one in Maps....
Literally anyone I hear talk about wild star says the same thing that it was awesome and wish it was still around 😭😭😭😭 I hope the private server gets finished
Thanks for the content.
everyones talking nerf this and nerf that when i actually feel like the current top builds being invoker/deadeye/stormweaver are an actual benchmark for how a build should operate as opposed to making then trash like other class choices
Counterpoint: Those builds already have a place in PoE 1. Why even make a separate game with the promise of a slower and more meaningful combat if endgame builds become the same zoom-zoom screen clearing and skipping boss mechanics by one-shotting them? They've shown that a slow and methodical ARPG can work with the campaign. IMO I would like to see the endgame brought closer to that state.
@@LazyPandaBum I agree. I've had significantly more fun in the early campaign (acts 1-3) than I did later in the game. Once it got to the point where things started zooming, it lost that interesting arpg/souls hybrid feel, and just reverted to PoE 1. I would even go so far as to say I had more fun clearing ToS on warrior than I did blasting through content on monk or sorc.
Personally, I enjoyed the first 3 acts of PoE2 more than any other arpg experience I've had to date.
@@LazyPandaBum its quite evident when start doing activities like simulacrum you need to be putting out ALOT of damage to succeed. having done all the content in the game as of this moment its 100% a matter of most classes being weak as opposed to the aforementioned classes being overpowered.
my spark says around 150k on the tooltip and simulacrum is still a tough encounter.
you honestly just sound like that typical reddit guy who got to maps, struggled to progress/sustain and starts coping in any way they can
@@TheDeadlockArchives I am in that scenario too with spark at 150k+ and unable to complete simulacrum. But I don't think that's a build/character issue but the mechanism itself. The mobs spawning that is invul for that first second and pushing you to the ends of the map and simultaneously cornering you amongst other mobs and fatal projectiles, it's a bit much. The game itself requires a rebalance, not the builds. The current 'meta' isn't exactly what GGG had in store or rather what they announced POE2 is supposed to be, but it's a good measure to what the state of the game is at the moment. It's a waiting moment for what GGG plans to do going forward.
It has to get faster then the campaign somewhat so that you feel a sense of power creep. But a few builds are to nuts and endgame bosses die too quick
Baseg Gavryn, I'm the same way.
Something about a build or ascendancy being too good makes me want to explore something else.
He said too popular
@@breakthecode4634 yeah that one
I think they're gonna just make it to where you can only have one bell skill instead of running four. You cap their damage by capping their options kinda deal. Seen multiple ppl run multiple charged staff skills. I think one of each skill should be enough to work with. Multiple of the same skill shouldn't exist on builds unless stated otherwise but who knows what they'll do. Could buff everything else and see a better outcome as well.
Be a shame if they nerfed alot of this stuff. The interaction between the heralds is fun. I think they should just buff the things that are lacking and maybe tweak down the super overpowered things like archmage. Turn the uber boss life up. Nerfing the fuck out of everything is just going to leave a sour taste in everyones mouth and take 1/2 the fun out of the game. At the end of the day we play for fun right.
They back Boys
Instead of nerfs i prefer buffs, so if the problem is that energy shield is so good, make armor and evasion better. I do not want current armor to be the poster child for evasion and energy shield nerfs.
If they make arcmge spirit requirement higher, it would be better that way, so people are locked into using a scepter off hand that would reduce the damage. maybe lower the percentage by 1. Monk needs rework, everyone using that class one shooting everything is stupid.
so monk 1 shot the whole map with one click/ blinking the entire map 1 shoting everything in couple seconds is okay, but when other builds do it it's not? make it make sense.
Monk cant actually equip temporalis
I had a dream of having PoE2 and D4 chaining seasons together to give us illimited gaming, but now they got back from vacation and announce the information on the patch 1 week before D4 season and probably a patch that will land in a similar date on the release of the season and I'm currently giga dissapointed. They had the ways to be different and don't encourage and force ridiculous rivalities instead of focusing on making all have fun and seems they're moving into the just release at the same time stuff. :/ I trully hope i'm wrong here.
"Leave Britney ( herald skills) aloooone!!!" 😂😂😂
My thing is they clearly made a ring for herald of ice, we all know it. If they go in and then make herald of ice no longer inflict ailments you might as well get rid of the ring. It's just like the temporalis and blink thing. Maybe they can make it so herald of ice can only do chill and thunder can only do shock. That will make them not play with each other but still keep the clearly intended interaction with the ring. Also without a physical based acenency on monk going ice strike or tempest was the real only valid option, so i dont see them going and nerfing those too hard, i would love to use whirling assault but atm its just not very viable with what we have. I hope they buff stuff also that needs buffed and just not nerf, if everything plays like warrior its gonna be rough time till they buff
i just did against the darkness run on my bloodmage, and i'd like to vent more about how poorly designed bloodmage is. i cleared sure i overgear the content greatly, but i almost ran out of hp pots and i never got hit once because the dr he gets makes my costs for my spells way higher than i could leech back. having to use hp pots as if they're mana pots and still having to worry about mana is so troll.
I hope they dont remove the one chance for maps, I feel like the game is much better like this than the 6 Portals in poe 1. I only wish they kept that thing about closing the way when you fail s map
if they slow the game down anymore IDK if I will be able to play. I work 12hrs a day and maybe have the time to play for an hr after t hat if I'm not to tired.
They need to change the on ice death effect. I cant see it in all the effects.
i cant see it for the witch with the thousand minions standing about and the sorc with the firewall sometimes party is nightmare and the lag is intense af without the floor on death effects
Buff and tweak warrior, pls and thank you 🥰
I just desperately want to know WHEN, like i know they're announcing and doing the interview on Sunday but we don't know when the patch is dropping yet. Also I'm SO INTERESTED to know if druid and huntress are making it in this patch, if maybe they'll include act 4, if they'll be adding or changing major things about end game. Like the build stuff whatever we know things are getting nerfed who cares, I wanna know what kind of systems changes are coming!!
You are way too optimistic.
@JoshTheMadLad I like to live that way yes :) and if we don't get any major new content and it's strictly balance changes I won't be disappointed either :) but also I don't think they'd be holding a livestream going over the changes and then doing a follow up interview on a second live stream if they didn't have some sort of larger changes coming beyond some nerfs and fixes. Totally happy to be wrong! But also optimistic and excited!
Just got on to play and my internet went down...
the problem isnt archmage. its the mana cost of skills. if you have to have a 3k mana pool to cast your spells you might has well just go archmage. flat mana cost scaling with gem levels where you get all your flat damage from gem levels was doomed to fail from a balance point from the start. tune down archmage 30% and lower mana cost and other spell styles will come out.
Hopefully, they will address uniques. 90% of them are completely worthless outside of twinking low-level alts.
Loot filter for console players is all we need.
Something not discussed is that the maps themselves are awful. There is a handful of maps that are enjoyable to run - Without enough agency. Additionally there is a lot of QOL that makes endgame painful right now. Having to run those towers is a waste of time. They could literally make it so that towers are just activated by default when you reach them for tablets. So much ground clutter means if you use any movement skills (tempest flurry etc) with AS you are constantly stopped and caught on random rocks and other assets. All of this stuff contributes to a lot of frustration. It is similar to the dodge roll blocks that existed before they adjusted the block radius to zero.
As far as how satisfied the double herald explosion is, I still would love to go around and actually hit monster with ice strike and flicker fr.
I want trinity support in the game, the best support gem ever.
You guys give me an idea for an ascendancy, because the game has already a pause technology in it how about a shadow rogue that can basically pause the game and the character and plant some mines or traps and then when you place the last one the game continues and they explode, how about that?
I know that most veterans agree to make nurfs, but honestly sprk was there in PoE one, and is fun to play and you still die not like Elon's monk with someone who has no clue 😅
archmage is bizarre, wtf were they thinking
I hope they don't nerf everything in to the ground. Try fixing the really under performing stuff for a patch and see how things settle out. I'm very skeptical of "everyone is playing one or two things!" arguments in a game with only 1/3rd of it's available skill / class options and some obviously under performing stuff. I just don't understand why everyone wants a slower game. Just to be different? Name a popular ARPG where the goal isn't to blast.
Yeah but when people are able to max 5 char in less than an hour, shiz is way to juiced up
Month*
The upcoming patch 0.1.1 will be a shock to many because I think GGG will announce that the full game will not be released in 6 months rather 10 months from now, probably later. So many things that don't work in poe2 temporarily because it's a game in development =)
Well they did say 6 to 12 months until full release, so that wouldn't be a shock. I think most people expected it to be a longer, rather than shorter, wait
I just really hope they fixed the which demon on console
I hope for zoomy nerfs!! And I even play monk
Id happy just to get a skill point after doing 100’s of maps. Or better gear. Something to feel like im progressing. At this point it feels like the game is bugged on console with the complete lack of anything
You one of those content creators that seek the opinion of others but never really give your own. Yes I understand you want to hear someone else's side of things, but I think you too over the top and should be concentrating more on your own views rather than suckihg up to others just to get buddies. Be you. Do you . Don't always have a sheep mentality. This is positive criticism ,so don't get offended. Let them come to you for ideas and see if they are truly concerned about your individual ideas in the gaming world and on poe 2 more specifically.
Brothers .. how much nerf on warriors more ??? 30 % dmg and haste on attacks are nerf enough
Monks are fine as they are (besides putting more than two bells (with over abundance)), same as heralds, fine as they are too, decreasing the damage would be one thing, but getting rid of the tech will suck bad, let us shatter things and chain-reaction stuff, otherwise the only mapper possible will be using cold skills and the herald of ice ring, then it’s not fun. Let we all do everything in our own way, every class should have fun. Nerf warrior lol jk
GGG are playing a dangerous game if they are as heavy handed with the nerfs as they were with trigger skills they could alienate 48% of their playerbase.
They need to fix the game breaking crashes before anything else. Their hot fixes have created new bugs that didn't exist prior
Sounds isolated to specific conditions. 250 hours in and I've never crashed once.
As someone whose played warrior as a warbringer where alot of things are flat out broken and was still able to complete all trials and can comfortably clear t18 maps I feel while everyone complains this is where they want the power level to sit so trying to be prepared for your well deserved nerfs everyone, the games still fun and I would say even more fun at a bit slower pace, you want one button blasts gameplay go play poe1
Goodbye ice monk 😞
BIG nerfs most likely and I really do hope they fix the terrible drop in FPS and performance issues so many experience ingame. And the gamefreeze which cause you to do a hard reset of the pc. If they do reduce the dmg-output/nerfs on different classes, I hope they balance it towards the strenght and dmg at/from the mobs/bosses.
50k 🎉
On death effects is a relic of the past and should be left in the past.
sometimes its hard to see on death effects in parties what with all the minions standing about and the sorc doing her thing with the firewalls and all the other stuff that goes on with the spark christ.
One portal is the biggest flaw of the game and any "argument" revolving around balancing rewards is fundamentally flawed.
The point is, gear drops are already too rare for proper progress (ask non 24/7 SSF players), so we're only talking currency. And it makes no difference at all if we find 200 ex and 1 div in 1 hour or in 100 hours for purchase prices of actual gear would simply adjust. If that's the argument, they're hiding behind nothing.
I didn't select hardcore at character creation, so I don't want pseudo-hardcore forced on me.
Im just dying to play my god damn duelist... the only other character that interests me is my blood mage.
I agree that the direction they should take the game is not the godlike late game diablo/poe 1 adhd spazz screen clear bullshit... it turns every single character into essentially the same thing just with different visual flavor. I really REALLY like the feel of early to mid game where you're actively interacting with every ability/attack like a souls game.
One of the biggest gripes i had with diablo 4's endgame was Uber bosses 1 shotting you with shitty hitboxes. This model FORCED you to play broken insta melting builds or just pretend you beat the endgame without killing them. My blood necro at the time was one of those classes that couldn't clear her. While it may have changed im so turned off by diablo that I'll never go back regardless of how they change because I dont have faith in the developers universally.
Poe is different, i feel and have faith that they will get it right.
If GGG goes the route that you guys are describing, that's a game I won't be playing.
Exactly.
More akin to campaign speed than PoE1 speed?
The only thing i wanna they to address are those Rare with 7 affixes in a cocaine trip running at 200 KM/H at you, and you cant do anything about it because the Rare is untangeable or whatever is call when you cant hit them far from you.
It's proximal tangibility. And that combined with mana drain is just wild stuff. I keep my basic skill on my bar solely for when I run into a mana drain. Because they almost always are fast af and there's no escaping the drain.
I just want my cosmetics man…
ITS TENCENT GGG doesnt Exist anymore ITS 100 % TENCENT
Ok let's say you are right, was is the proof for that?
Gavryn sounds just like fubgun.
Has anyone seen them in the same room?
My dude no other archtype exists for casters except Archmage.... i think they should add more variety not nerf it :)
A lot of stuff will probably get nerfed. POE 2 is supposed to be tactical slow paced arpg. And after a few weeks of player tinkering poe 2 reverted back to poe 1 speed gameplay.
warrior having identity crisis