I’m a 35+ year mechanic. My big thing is the attitude of a lot of pilots about mechanics. A lot of them don’t care about maintenance or mechanics. The Military is good on team work, that is missing in civil aviation.
No one one in the military actually pays for the maintenance. Taxpayers pay for the maintenance. So it is easy for them to rely on "teamwork" especially since they are ordered to be on the team. If maintenance didn't cost so much, then owners would care a lot more about it.
@@AlanMydland-fq2vs a lot of us do. We need good people in all trades and we need to demand good pay. Until we all start asking CEO’s why they’re making and feel they’re worth $20 million a year, have three homes, two bizjets, one helicopter, eight luxury vehicles, take their families on tax deductible vacations…the list goes on, nothing will change. They outsourced us to Communist China for cheap labor and now with the mess we’re in.
Interesting interview. I'm an old new pilot and aircraft owner. Last year I was able to assist on my aircraft annual. I totally agree with you, that it's time well spent. I have a mechanical/electrical background which helped. It's a little late in life for me to go back to school, but an A&P/IA looks like a good opportunity.
That waiting list is nuts! I tell every single person I talk to that’s interested in becoming an A&P, you will never not have a job. The aviation industry needs you!
That may be true, but the starting salaries do not seem to reflect that. The job market research I did in my area made it really easy to walk away from my idea to become an A&P. Low to modest income along with huge cost to get in.
Respect! Awesome! Chelsea you rock it. Perfect show and interview. Your knowledge and passion. Impressive. And what a guy, Mr. Stearmen… impressive too. Congratulations to this awesome special interview. ❤😊
@@bizjetfixr8352 GA means always money and doesn’t work without money. It’s an expensive joy, either way. Even the old Cessnas and Pipers won’t be safe in the air with putting money on them.
Chelsea. Awesome show. Good to see a new face on In the Hangar. Dan is cool but not nearly as cute. This video perks my eyes as i was an aircraft mechanic in the Navy for 4 years before i chased a shiny object in police K-9. Now, hearing there is a desperation for mechanics is interesting. And i want to seek out my PPL+ ratings. Thank you guys.
Thanks for a bit of inspiration. I did 34 years with the airlines but always had one foot in GA with a small vintage aircraft restoration sideline. I have a '46 Luscombe and a '46 Swift that are both projects I had figured I'd tackle in retirement but once I got here I felt kind of burnt out and unsure if I really wanted to continue on with it. The VAA magazines and youtube videos like this help lift me out of my doldrums and realize that maybe it's just a phase I'm going through. We'll see.
A&P, five yrs military, $12.25/hr in 1993. No thanks after 4 yrs working for overpaid corporate exec millionaires taking their families on vacations. I went to HVAC school on the GI Bill, started at $13.00/hr and then started my own business. Now 23 great years. Finally, could afford to build an experimental aircraft. Until CEO’s get some integrity and reduce their income to $500K, don’t expect anything but complaints from underpaid employees in the USA.
Your story mimics mine, 1992 A&P, 4 Yrs Navy jets, built a RV-4, with a friend, couldn't get a job in aviation that paid, Airlines at the time were hard to get in. Went into building Automated machinery, paid double GA mechanic wages. 21 years later, I'm looking to do something in aviation again for fun
@@greglarson1982 I sent out 125 resumes. Took the only offer for $12.25 an hour. I was told when I joined that there were 44,000 A&P’s needed. I no longer believe any of those bs numbers.
My reality. Grew up in GA and also spent some time in AG Aviation doing ground OPS / Maintenance . Loved both jobs but the wages and benefits for a young married man with a family do not measure up to the Airlines. Left GA and spent about 38 years as an AMT with a Major Airline. Do not regret my career path. The major Airlines presently pay a top wage scale A & P mechanic just under $60.00 / HR with matching 401k and health care plans. Non Revenue Travel all over the world at your fingertips. How many GA A & P jobs provide this type of compensation? GA just cannot or will not compete with the major airlines. This is the real world reality.
I looked into an A&P and could not make financial sense of it. There are so many other options for mechanically inclined people that make more money and don't require the intense financial and time cost of the certifications.
100% Agreed. I'd love to become an A&P, but can't afford two years not working and then come out the other side making such low wages. Meanwhile I've been able to train to become a pilot (now instructor) outside my corporate job. Why can't there be a similar path for A&Ps?
Light singles should require no more mechanic ratings than the short courses as are available to the LSA community. I built an RV8 and acquired the Repairmans Cert for it. There is NO reason why I should not qualify to maintain and certify a C-172 that is not used for hire. Owners LEARN YOUR AIRPLANE and be helpful to your mechanic by saving them time and YOU money.
The time required for an A&P certificate is silly. I’ve watched auto mechanics work under an A&P and they knew exactly what they were doing. Airframes are a matter of following the manufacturers recommendations.
Rea ch out to the maintenance shop near you at the airport and see if they'll let you come out. Strike up a relationship-- make yourself useful. YOu'll get a taste to see if it's for you and they'll get a fee for you and if they want to do a full on apprenticeship.
I would advise any young person who is mechanically inclined to go to school to get their A&P. especially if they like airplanes. I did and it was a good career.
The only cost in GA that isn't fixed is the A/P pay . I worked GA then went to the airlines and it best thing I ever did . GA A/P is a dead end street especially when one can work at the Toyota dealer and earn more money .
I have 18 yrs working on transport category aircraft. My experience in no way resembles doing the same thing in GA. Yet a lot of us will work in GA during a lay off of which they are frequent. I would not call aviation my dream job despite spending years dreaming of doing it. They are not the same thing.
There are lots of fun jobs in the major Airlines and the compensation shames GA. [almost 38 years for a Major Airline as an AMT with A & P.] Had you rather make $60.00 / HR or $30.00 / HR ??? I think I know what most people would choose.
If you don't have any aviation experience at 51 and you decide to get your A&P don't plan on making alot of income. You will start around $20/HR in GA and 10 years later you may be around $27/HR.
Great fun show with great comments, but as a 43 year A&P and pilot/owner I don’t ever recommend that anyone becomes a professional aircraft mechanic. There are A&P mechanics everywhere in my experience who no longer work in aviation for many good reasons. The low pay for the investment, high skills and responsibilities required aren't the only things, but poor shifts and work conditions along with high expectations from employers and customers is huge. After being stuck on graveyard for 23 years in the majors, I finally went to the corporate side which had a different set of problems for half the money. Getting people excited to become A&P mechanics won't fix the problems. And YES volunteer at a museum, but not to start an aviation mechanic career. Sure the grass is always greener elsewhere, but then why did almost all of my non aviation friends with similar education and skills make more money than me, and had weekends, holidays with some summer vacation time without the high monetary responsibility and liability?
What he said. My base salary at four different jobs has been the same for the last 20 plus years. My "contract" rate has stayed the same as well ($50/hour) On bizjets. Which is why I don't do contract stuff anymore. Not enough pay to make it worth while.
Chels is sooooo cute! AV101 is taking too long to put a ring on that finger, I think you need to step out of the way give someone else a shot. So what do you think Chelsea, you, me, plate of pancakes 😅 ???
I'm 51, and I'm a senior engineer in my day job. But I can't stand my job anymore. I was thinking of taking all of my existing hobbies / skills into a business like boat, airplane, and trailer wiring among other things. I can go for an A&P in night school, but isn't that a minimum of two years? Is the market in that much need of A&P services that it would make sense for a 51 year old to go get an A&P license and make that part, maybe not all, of a second career? I'm concerned about return on investment being closer to retirement than not. I'm also a little miffed there's no way to short circuit some of the A&P stuff through testing if you already have skills.
If you already have skills, you can also call up a local shop and ask. You can get your A&P without going through full time school by working enough hours on airplanes. You’ll be under supervision of another A&P who has to sign off your work, but you are at least making money while getting the hours required to get you A&P license.
@@cedricfranzen8558 I'm stuck between a rock and hard place. I'd love to do that but can't afford to take off from my current day job to take classes or do apprentice work. It has to be nights or weekends. From other comments and prior research, you aren't going to make much money in general aviation as an A&P. Maybe if you specialize. I might just stay away from aviation and work on other vehicles. I'm getting pretty good at working on my own cars, including diagnostics, and that seems like an easier path. But I'd love to add A&P to my repertoire. I'm just never going to get there logging time on my own plane. Thanks for the advice.
FAA has nothing to do with it. In fact, thanks to MSG-3, the inspection intervals on corporate jets have been extended across the board. The "A Check" on a Falcon 900/900EX used to be six months. Now, it's a year plus. Meaning.......over a year before anyone takes a good look at the airplane. Discussed this with one of the guys at a well known MRO. Says that they are seeing a lot more corrosion damage, because it may be five years plus before anyone looks under the panels on the airplanes. Than add the fact that the (not nearly as good) water based primers the OEMs were forced to start using around Y2K There's a lot of stuff that isn't in the Maintenance Manual.
@@bizjetfixr8352 I wasn't referring to the airlines or private jets. I was referring to GA. The Cessnas, Pipers, Mooney's, etc. The FAA has priced the average person out of aviation. Why go through the hassle and expense of general aviation when I could just buy a boat and come off way cheaper and have to spend way less time with certifications?
I beg to differ. I have been in GA for 25 years and while I haven’t gotten rich I have made a good living in it. If you stay at a small shop you probably will not make any money but I have worked at larger repair stations where I made decent money and had great opportunities.
Great video Chelsea. Glad to see you on In The Hanger.
I’m a 35+ year mechanic. My big thing is the attitude of a lot of pilots about mechanics. A lot of them don’t care about maintenance or mechanics. The Military is good on team work, that is missing in civil aviation.
who wants to be a grease monkey
No one one in the military actually pays for the maintenance. Taxpayers pay for the maintenance. So it is easy for them to rely on "teamwork" especially since they are ordered to be on the team. If maintenance didn't cost so much, then owners would care a lot more about it.
@@stevecunningham6821 build an experimental and do 95% of it yourself.
@@AlanMydland-fq2vs a lot of us do. We need good people in all trades and we need to demand good pay. Until we all start asking CEO’s why they’re making and feel they’re worth $20 million a year, have three homes, two bizjets, one helicopter, eight luxury vehicles, take their families on tax deductible vacations…the list goes on, nothing will change. They outsourced us to Communist China for cheap labor and now with the mess we’re in.
@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity they should take your advice and build their own experimentals so they can do all their own maintenance.
This was a great interview. Thank you so much!
Interesting interview. I'm an old new pilot and aircraft owner. Last year I was able to assist on my aircraft annual. I totally agree with you, that it's time well spent. I have a mechanical/electrical background which helped. It's a little late in life for me to go back to school, but an A&P/IA looks like a good opportunity.
That waiting list is nuts! I tell every single person I talk to that’s interested in becoming an A&P, you will never not have a job. The aviation industry needs you!
That may be true, but the starting salaries do not seem to reflect that. The job market research I did in my area made it really easy to walk away from my idea to become an A&P. Low to modest income along with huge cost to get in.
Plenty of work but you don't get paid well at all. Auto mechanics make more. Starting hourly pay for A&P is around $20/HR
That is why I never ended up working as an a&p graduate in 93 made much more as a bricklayer and even more now as a RN
Excellent episode Dan, and an excellent job by Chelsea. Thank you for diving into this realm. Keep up the excellent work. Safe skies my friends 🇺🇸🛩️
With new personality, new info. Dan is a genius. He can cover all bases, and make this channel of all aviation channels.
Interesting segment. Enjoyed it and informative.
👍✅ great interview, tks Chelsea!
Hello from Minnesota!! Outstanding job!! Dan and Christy better watch out she's coming for your job!😅
Great interview. Thank you Chelsea!
Good practical advice. Applies is many aspects of life. Thanks.
Respect! Awesome! Chelsea you rock it. Perfect show and interview. Your knowledge and passion. Impressive. And what a guy, Mr. Stearmen… impressive too. Congratulations to this awesome special interview. ❤😊
That where the money is in GA.....rebuilding rich-boy toys.
@@bizjetfixr8352 GA means always money and doesn’t work without money. It’s an expensive joy, either way. Even the old Cessnas and Pipers won’t be safe in the air with putting money on them.
Chelsea. Awesome show. Good to see a new face on In the Hangar. Dan is cool but not nearly as cute.
This video perks my eyes as i was an aircraft mechanic in the Navy for 4 years before i chased a shiny object in police K-9. Now, hearing there is a desperation for mechanics is interesting. And i want to seek out my PPL+ ratings. Thank you guys.
Thanks for a bit of inspiration. I did 34 years with the airlines but always had one foot in GA with a small vintage aircraft restoration sideline. I have a '46 Luscombe and a '46 Swift that are both projects I had figured I'd tackle in retirement but once I got here I felt kind of burnt out and unsure if I really wanted to continue on with it. The VAA magazines and youtube videos like this help lift me out of my doldrums and realize that maybe it's just a phase I'm going through. We'll see.
I've got an old car that I've had for 30 years. Thinking about selling it, because "I'm over it"
Good conversation 😊Thumbs up 👍
Great informative stream. Thank you
Great episode! Many opportunities for an ambitious person.
A&P, five yrs military, $12.25/hr in 1993. No thanks after 4 yrs working for overpaid corporate exec millionaires taking their families on vacations. I went to HVAC school on the GI Bill, started at $13.00/hr and then started my own business. Now 23 great years. Finally, could afford to build an experimental aircraft. Until CEO’s get some integrity and reduce their income to $500K, don’t expect anything but complaints from underpaid employees in the USA.
Your story mimics mine, 1992 A&P, 4 Yrs Navy jets, built a RV-4, with a friend, couldn't get a job in aviation that paid, Airlines at the time were hard to get in. Went into building Automated machinery, paid double GA mechanic wages.
21 years later, I'm looking to do something in aviation again for fun
so true
@@greglarson1982 I sent out 125 resumes. Took the only offer for $12.25 an hour. I was told when I joined that there were 44,000 A&P’s needed. I no longer believe any of those bs numbers.
Me too graduated 93 stayed a bricklayer that wad doing through school. Then 2010 switched again to nursing make more than double of an a&p
My reality. Grew up in GA and also spent some time in AG Aviation doing ground OPS / Maintenance . Loved both jobs but the wages and benefits for a young married man with a family do not measure up to the Airlines. Left GA and spent about 38 years as an AMT with a Major Airline. Do not regret my career path. The major Airlines presently pay a top wage scale A & P mechanic just under $60.00 / HR with matching 401k and health care plans. Non Revenue Travel all over the world at your fingertips.
How many GA A & P jobs provide this type of compensation?
GA just cannot or will not compete with the major airlines.
This is the real world reality.
I looked into an A&P and could not make financial sense of it. There are so many other options for mechanically inclined people that make more money and don't require the intense financial and time cost of the certifications.
100% Agreed. I'd love to become an A&P, but can't afford two years not working and then come out the other side making such low wages. Meanwhile I've been able to train to become a pilot (now instructor) outside my corporate job. Why can't there be a similar path for A&Ps?
Light singles should require no more mechanic ratings than the short courses as are available to the LSA community. I built an RV8 and acquired the Repairmans Cert for it. There is NO reason why I should not qualify to maintain and certify a C-172 that is not used for hire. Owners LEARN YOUR AIRPLANE and be helpful to your mechanic by saving them time and YOU money.
The time required for an A&P certificate is silly.
I’ve watched auto mechanics work under an A&P and they knew exactly what they were doing.
Airframes are a matter of following the manufacturers recommendations.
I would love to be an A&P but I’m pushing 60 and don’t have time to go to school for 3 years and keep somewhat of some type income coming in.
You still have plenty of time to get your A, or P and work for a long time. No requirement to get both.
If you are wanting to be a mechanic because you like airplanes then go for it. If you are depending on the income, don't do it.
You did great, don't worry what they think. There testing you!
Is it ok to ask a possible employer for a trial period as an A&P to try out the job prior to actually starting? Especially if it means moving.
also what is a good way to find someone to work under as an apprentice?
Rea ch out to the maintenance shop near you at the airport and see if they'll let you come out. Strike up a relationship-- make yourself useful. YOu'll get a taste to see if it's for you and they'll get a fee for you and if they want to do a full on apprenticeship.
@@TakingOff I found somewhere to work for now doing a 172 restoration. Gonna be a great place to learn.
Oh awesome!
I would advise any young person who is mechanically inclined to go to school to get their A&P. especially if they like airplanes. I did and it was a good career.
Brian Dennehy's doppleganger. : ) Great interview.
So don't take it personnel, but yes you are new blood on the show, and you did a great job, things to consider.
The only cost in GA that isn't fixed is the A/P pay . I worked GA then went to the airlines and it best thing I ever did . GA A/P is a dead end street especially when one can work at the Toyota dealer and earn more money .
boy, he reminds me of Brian Keith, the actor.
This guy could make more money being a replacement for Brian Dennehy in movies.
I have 18 yrs working on transport category aircraft. My experience in no way resembles doing the same thing in GA. Yet a lot of us will work in GA during a lay off of which they are frequent. I would not call aviation my dream job despite spending years dreaming of doing it. They are not the same thing.
Where would you start for middle age individual if wanting make career change towards A&P to do fun stuff not airline and make living?
Im kinda in same boat. I just ordered my AMT logbook and I'm going to start doing owner assisted work with my A&P/IA (if I dont drive him too crazy!)
You absolutely should!@@TakingOff
There are lots of fun jobs in the major Airlines and the compensation shames GA. [almost 38 years for a Major Airline as an AMT with A & P.]
Had you rather make $60.00 / HR or $30.00 / HR ??? I think I know what most people would choose.
If you don't have any aviation experience at 51 and you decide to get your A&P don't plan on making alot of income. You will start around $20/HR in GA and 10 years later you may be around $27/HR.
@@Airplanefish it takes 5 yrs in almost anything to start making any kind of money in anything, maybe longe🥵
Hey Chels, sorry I missed U at Airventure, say hello to you mom
@emaoava, johnybobmusgrave
You may become the new personaliyy on taking off.
Great fun show with great comments, but as a 43 year A&P and pilot/owner I don’t ever recommend that anyone becomes a professional aircraft mechanic. There are A&P mechanics everywhere in my experience who no longer work in aviation for many good reasons. The low pay for the investment, high skills and responsibilities required aren't the only things, but poor shifts and work conditions along with high expectations from employers and customers is huge. After being stuck on graveyard for 23 years in the majors, I finally went to the corporate side which had a different set of problems for half the money. Getting people excited to become A&P mechanics won't fix the problems. And YES volunteer at a museum, but not to start an aviation mechanic career. Sure the grass is always greener elsewhere, but then why did almost all of my non aviation friends with similar education and skills make more money than me, and had weekends, holidays with some summer vacation time without the high monetary responsibility and liability?
What he said.
My base salary at four different jobs has been the same for the last 20 plus years.
My "contract" rate has stayed the same as well ($50/hour) On bizjets. Which is why I don't do contract stuff anymore. Not enough pay to make it worth while.
I've never even been close to that stated rate. It's just what it is.@@bizjetfixr8352
Chels is sooooo cute! AV101 is taking too long to put a ring on that finger, I think you need to step out of the way give someone else a shot. So what do you think Chelsea, you, me, plate of pancakes 😅 ???
Pancakes. How could she refuse an offer like that!
I'm 51, and I'm a senior engineer in my day job. But I can't stand my job anymore. I was thinking of taking all of my existing hobbies / skills into a business like boat, airplane, and trailer wiring among other things. I can go for an A&P in night school, but isn't that a minimum of two years? Is the market in that much need of A&P services that it would make sense for a 51 year old to go get an A&P license and make that part, maybe not all, of a second career? I'm concerned about return on investment being closer to retirement than not. I'm also a little miffed there's no way to short circuit some of the A&P stuff through testing if you already have skills.
The Major Airlines will give you a much quicker ROI because of their wages and benefits.
If you already have skills, you can also call up a local shop and ask. You can get your A&P without going through full time school by working enough hours on airplanes. You’ll be under supervision of another A&P who has to sign off your work, but you are at least making money while getting the hours required to get you A&P license.
@@cedricfranzen8558 I'm stuck between a rock and hard place. I'd love to do that but can't afford to take off from my current day job to take classes or do apprentice work. It has to be nights or weekends. From other comments and prior research, you aren't going to make much money in general aviation as an A&P. Maybe if you specialize. I might just stay away from aviation and work on other vehicles. I'm getting pretty good at working on my own cars, including diagnostics, and that seems like an easier path. But I'd love to add A&P to my repertoire. I'm just never going to get there logging time on my own plane. Thanks for the advice.
Hell no. Especially being over 50.
Do something that pays better, and is less of a hassle. Like Toll Booth collector. Or OTR truck driver... LOL
Busy mechanic 12
Pilot shortages. A&P shortages. Is there anything the FAA can't do?
FAA has nothing to do with it.
In fact, thanks to MSG-3, the inspection intervals on corporate jets have been extended across the board.
The "A Check" on a Falcon 900/900EX used to be six months. Now, it's a year plus.
Meaning.......over a year before anyone takes a good look at the airplane.
Discussed this with one of the guys at a well known MRO. Says that they are seeing a lot more corrosion damage, because it may be five years plus before anyone looks under the panels on the airplanes.
Than add the fact that the (not nearly as good) water based primers the OEMs were forced to start using around Y2K
There's a lot of stuff that isn't in the Maintenance Manual.
@@bizjetfixr8352 I wasn't referring to the airlines or private jets. I was referring to GA. The Cessnas, Pipers, Mooney's, etc. The FAA has priced the average person out of aviation. Why go through the hassle and expense of general aviation when I could just buy a boat and come off way cheaper and have to spend way less time with certifications?
Because ga doesn't pay
Great segment, great interview, but please, please lose the word, "YEAH."
General aviation is a huge dead end, you can't make a decent living in GA.
I beg to differ. I have been in GA for 25 years and while I haven’t gotten rich I have made a good living in it. If you stay at a small shop you probably will not make any money but I have worked at larger repair stations where I made decent money and had great opportunities.