Paul's right about Emotiva. I bought a pair of their speakers last year because I can't afford $30,000 for speakers, nor would I spend that much on speakers even if I could. Couldn't be happier with the sound, or the value for money. They also get outstanding reviews from folks who evaluate audio products.
Dear paul, It is not only about the brand. As you self explain, the emotion of music is subjective. Therefore, indeed choose a well established brand, but more important: listen and choose wat you like best.
In THD anything below 1% is reasonably inaudible. But you hit it on the head. It is how they got the spec. In reality extremely low THD specs usually means too much feedback in the design and worse sound even with better specs. Same with IM. These are steady state sinewave test that bare little resemblance to the complex wave that is the music we listen to.
An interesting problem, with the only solution being able to hear both in your setup. Now how many shops will let you do that? especially in the home theatre market, probably none. So pick one, fully in the knowledge that your probably going to have to move it on and try another.
When buying a receiver the most important thing is that it has pre out puts. That way it could aways be used as an pre amp if you want to upgrade (power) in the future.
Don't think about all this THD nonsense, it means nothing when it comes to sound quality, the best amps I've ever heard are the Phasemation tube amps from Japan, very expensive, and it has 5% THD, yes FIVE percent, but sounds absolutely glorious, don't look at the measurements, just listen.
No, you should look at the measurements even more so in that case, because that 5% THD is why you hear a difference. It's just that said distortion is one that you find pleasing. Same reason many people, myself included, use tube amps for headphones. When you eliminate the variables like distortion, you find out that amps pretty much sound the same regardless of cost. Theres nothing wrong with preferring some distortion in the mix to spice it up (i am a sucker for headphone tube amps for this reason), but you have to recognize that you do prefer the distortion if you want to make good purchasing decisions off of it. You're using the distortion as a natural tone control, and that may affect what other equipment you choose to buy. The real hard to swallow pill for many is that you could get close to replicating that distortion with an equalizer, if that sound signature is your highest priority and you already have a good sounding amp with little distortion. It's the other factors that should influence cost, such as material choice, build quality, quality control, presentation, collector value, etc. You are right, though, that when it comes to sub percent THD, its probably not gonna impact much, so the original asker probably shouldnt be focusing on the THD that much.
I'm the original asker.. I'm not focusing on THD spec. Mostly trying to understand it. Every manufacturer lists it. When shopping for a new receiver I try to get some info from the specs. And I suspected I wouldn't hear a difference but wanted to ask. I've read about audio types spending hundreds of dollars on equipment and cables trying to lower the noise floor in what sounds like sub 1 % range. So i don't know maybe there's something to the sub 1% distortion.. beats me. I don't want to muck around in any of that.. But again, trying to understand
I have to say I preferred the sound of KT88 compared to SE in audio show environment. KT88 push-pull ultra-linear with high feedback and tight bass, clear highs. Much lower THD too.
@@hwpno3 I agree with the OP here. On the flipside a lot of gear with low THD sounds lifeless and sterile, especially if you are listening to music with actual instruments especially acoustic instruments. It is not as noticeable with sampled or electronic music. Not all distortion is created equal of course, and what I find interesting about all this is that manufacturers so far have not seemed to figure out how to eat their cake and have it to with THD numbers being low and still delivering music that is pleasing. My evidence? A lot of people chasing lower THD numbers never stop; cables, dacs, forver swapping new transparent gear in and out when they could just simply be listening to music and enjoying it. But hey, when was audiophilery ever about that? 🤣 It often feels like the whole hobby is chasing what it had years ago with vinyl but somehow can't get there.
@@chungang7037 The clue is in the name High FIDELITY, then again, unless you listen with a scope, loudpeakers are so atrocious in that respect, that any source/amp combo with less than 0.1% is already winning.
Several overseas brands give better performance per dollar than anything domestic. Even Emotiva manufactures manufactures many different components overseas.
Distortions is introduced in audio amplifier due the non linearity of transistors amplification characteristics . However modern Mosfets has a better non linear amplification characteristics than the older Bjts .
Paul, there are countless people that swear by specs. They insist that everything can be measured (which is wrong). Everything you said was spot-on correct. Excellent advice. Given two choices: 1) Great sounding system, with bad specs. 2) Bad sounding system, with great specs. I would choose #1. But there are many "obsessed with specs" people out there that would choose #2. it floats their boat. More power to them. When I purchased my stereo, specs never entered my mind. I simply listened to what they had in several stores, and purchased the one that sounded the best (within my budget). No regrets. I listen with my ears; not my eyes. I suggest that Henry in Michigan find a way to listen to the receivers he is considering. That can be difficult, and if in different stores, can sound wildly different, due to any number of varying conditions in the different stores. Plan "B" is to check reviews, from reputable reviewers, who focus on sound quality. But that, too, can be difficult. Finding a review on a specific receiver, and by someone whose ear you can trust, is very difficult. That is why I was please to hear you (Paul) give Henry that Emotiva recommendation. Without having access to plan "A" or plan "B", the Emotiva option is an easy choice, and will probably sound way better than the receivers that Henry was considering.
@@m.williams3176 Quote: "Everything relevant can be measured. Whether it is measured and whether the measurements are interpreted correctly it's a different matter." End Quote. Soundstaging is relevant. Given two sets of quality speakers, please explain how to measure which of the speakers throws a wider soundstage.
@@NoEgg4utry looking at specs like: - Spectral decay - Time alignment of the drivers - Phase response of the speakers - Horizontal & vertical dispersion patterns - Multi-tone harmonic distortion - Dynamic range - Compression - Linearity (linked to compression) - Impedance & phase (this can mess with the amplifier) There's so many specs for a speaker other than sensitivity and frequency response. Buried deep in the interaction of all those specs is your detail retrieval & soundstage width / height. Just because you or I don't understand how to relate those specs to the sound of the speakers doesn't mean that soundstage width and depth can't be measured.
Interesting topic, Paul. I've heard audiophiles argue about which rectifier tube sounds best in a particular amplifier. That being said, I recently sold a Western Electric rectifier tube used for 100 bucks! It was found in an assortment of tubes I found at a yard sale.......................
Just be careful and compare apples to apples. Some manufacturers specify THD only at 1 KHz and 1 W output, for example, but some others may specify THD at full rated power, and even across the entire audio frequency band, etc.
THD is a static signal test. It uses a continually repeating sinewave. One way to lower THD is to take some of the output of an amp or stage in one and feed some of it back to compare to the input. If the output is not tracking the input, the feedback loop will compensate. But this can only happen after a signal has passed through the stage and is then very slightly later fed back. This settles the distortion down after a few cycles of the continuous sinewave. Music is not a continuous repeating sinewave. It is constantly changing. So by the time the initial signal transient has gone through a stage, it is too late to compensate for it with feedback. Feeding some of it back (to pass through again at a lower level) just muddies, blurs the sound. Good amp design is to be stable without needing lots or any feedback.
Thanks for the advice Paul. Interestingly, I have been considering an Emotiva 9.2 channel receiver. If nothing else they give more amp specs than the others. I'm still chugging along with my Marantz receiver. It's not that old and the front panel display went dead. Everything still works but very annoying!!! I hate that little port hole display Marantz uses anyway so time for a new one
Tubes :-) I built a Leech low TIM amp years back, and a dual monoblock LM4780 and a Emotiva 5 channel driving some S1010s. All sound slightly different, but very close with significantly different specs.
years ago I was gradually upgrading my system w first,, a turntable w magnetic cartridge,,a preamp so I could get decent phono audio out of a panasonic amfm stereo receiver about ten/15 wpc,playing a beethoven stokowsky recording on london records,all 4 mvts on one record, there was distortion on the inner groove track,,I bought a used german made turntable resulting in greatly improved clear sound throughout this record bought a solti recording of the ninth even better,a 2 record set meant superb sound AV equipment of this age has figures of THD so low as to be meaningless near zero and unnoticeable
The other day I cleaned the fuses in my vontage amp. The sound was cleaner and smoother after it, among other things. Exactly what distortion went down by the cleaning?
A sociopathic reply from...let's see... let me think... what kind of person uses the internet to make sociopath(ic) replies? Oh, it's right on the tip of my tongue.
Now that the sound is very noticeably better after cleaning the fuses, I'm not sure if that would lean one more toward trying premium (expensive) fuses or not. On the one hand, it proves that fuses matter. On the other hand their improved sound is at least partly due from them being new and clean and free of oxidation. It's like all the great ones say; when it comes to audio, everything matters. Are there any non audiophile fuses without the audiophile prices, that are sonically superior?
Its the real crux in this thing we love. The white sheet matters a whole lot, a point of reference for matching components at the very least. The magic happens in the circuit design however, cant doubt that at all.
Shitt would be another brand that is less expensive than it sounds and an American company. Not all their products are made in the US but you know what I mean.
No. Slew rate is the voltage that an amplifier can output in a given amount of time (usually μs). For example, an amp with a slew rate of 20V/μs can do output voltage swings of up to 20V every one microsecond, before starting to attenuate and distort the signal (in theory). Damping factor describes how many times smaller is the output impedance (resistance) of the amplifier, compared to the speakers. An amplifier that drives 8ohm speakers with a damping factor of 100, should have an output impedance of 0.08ohms. I don't think there is a standard for damping factor, so it depends on the manufacturer.
No Damping Factor is a ratio of the amp's output state/Power supply internal resistance and the speaker load. It helps show how much control an amp has over the speaker, cancel EMF,.... Slew rate is how fast the amp can respond. Rise time from 10% to 90% of a slope. It comes from the military, how fast a cannon turret can turn from one target to another.
Hah!😂 Most of those THD specs for surround recivers are messured at just 1ch driven @ 1kHz into 8 or 4 ohms. If you are LUCKY you get a 2ch messurement that's actually proper (2ch driven at 20-20.000Hz into 4 and 8ohm) but those numbers crumbles in surround mode. I have seen too many "5x 100w" amps that physicly are not able to deliver more than max half of that (if not as low as just a quarter) in surround mode because of the small power supply. So for actuall power ignore the watts and look at the max current the power supply can handle. And knowing what class amp it is you can easily calculate the actual continous power output. High watts and no current sucks. Rather have lower watts and higher current
Yep, 100%. Very easy to get 100watts, 8ohms, 1 channel driven. That's only 3.5 amps, at 28.5 volts. If that power supply can only deliver, say, 4 amps, then, with 2 channels driven, you'll only get 32 watts per channel. Speakers that are only 4 ohms? Now we're down to 16 watts. When you see an amplifier rated as 5x100watts, but only consumes 150watts from the mains, then you're getting junk. On the other end of the spectrum, my 2x50 watt amplifier has a 400 watt power supply. That thing can actually drive real world speakers...
@@RacingAnt Oh, yes! Exactly! My 2x 150w (8ohm) / 2x 300w (4ohm) has 500w power supply on each channel (dual mono construction) so 1000w conbined and my surround reciver is reted at 7x85w (2x100w, 8ohm in stereo) into 8ohms has 1480w power supply. I remember many years ago I had a 5x100w reciver.. 240w power supply🤣 Later when I got a 5x45w (2x50) it had 480w power supply and that amp was noticably MUCH more powerful while on paper it was supposed to have just half the output. This is why I kinda ignore watts out and instead look at the power supply. And knoting if it is Class A, AB or D it is easy to calculate what it could actually deliver.
The biggest problem with THD is that it does not tell you which harmonics are making up the distortion. If you have 0.1% THD with 90% of that second order it will probably sound good. If you have most of the distortion in odd order or high order harmonics it will sound awful. Many tube amps have THD above 0.1% and still sound good because second order is the most musical of harmonics.
dont forget damping factor...keep it low. more than 100 wont move your cones. i dont understand this nowadays craze of hi and super hi damping factor. it sounds so stiff
Sounds as if you like soft, wooly, inaccurate bass. Adding a low value resistor to the woofer was an old trick to get "more" bass output, but more isn't always better. Still, if it's the sound you like, then that's great. Others may prefer to hear a taut kick drum, and be able to hear the difference between a pick or fingers on a bass guitar.
@@endrizonot sure the damping factor is the issue. I've heard amplifiers with damping factors of 800+ that have made speakers slam hard, and produce effortless, stress free, deep bass.
Total harmonic distortion. If you put in a 1Khz sine wave, how much does the amp generate in harmonics, multiples of that signal? So measure how much signal at 2Khz, 3Khz, 4Khz,.... is in the output that was not in the input. And compare that to the 1Khz level coming out. Say you have 10V out at 1Khz and all the others add up to 1V you have 10% THD.
Of course amplifiers can sound different and most important is the circuits are designed by passionate experienced engineers who actually listen test to their designs. The BOM cost or product cost is not a reliable indicator for the audio fidelity. Also I agree THD, TIM, frequency response, damping factor etc. are often near useless metrics unless they are really bad.
Paul's right about Emotiva. I bought a pair of their speakers last year because I can't afford $30,000 for speakers, nor would I spend that much on speakers even if I could. Couldn't be happier with the sound, or the value for money. They also get outstanding reviews from folks who evaluate audio products.
what did they replace?
@@WeeWeeJumbo ELAC bookshelf speakers.
Dear paul, It is not only about the brand. As you self explain, the emotion of music is subjective. Therefore, indeed choose a well established brand, but more important: listen and choose wat you like best.
Definitely asked the right guy for this good advice...always shocking Paul. #Respect
advice
In THD anything below 1% is reasonably inaudible. But you hit it on the head. It is how they got the spec. In reality extremely low THD specs usually means too much feedback in the design and worse sound even with better specs. Same with IM. These are steady state sinewave test that bare little resemblance to the complex wave that is the music we listen to.
An interesting problem, with the only solution being able to hear both in your setup. Now how many shops will let you do that? especially in the home theatre market, probably none.
So pick one, fully in the knowledge that your probably going to have to move it on and try another.
When buying a receiver the most important thing is that it has pre out puts. That way it could aways be used as an pre amp if you want to upgrade (power) in the future.
The weight of the amps can give an indication of a better power supply if they have the same measurements.
Massively beefy switch mode power supply sat looking annoyed by your statement 😔
super thanks Paul
Most of the distortion comes from untreated rooms.
No it doesn't. It comes from the wife .
@@adotopp1865 An improperly treated wife if that's the case, just as with the room.
That's frequency response & (possibly) ringing issues, not harmonic distortion (THD)...
Most of it comes from the loudspeakers. Lol.
Don't think about all this THD nonsense, it means nothing when it comes to sound quality, the best amps I've ever heard are the Phasemation tube amps from Japan, very expensive, and it has 5% THD, yes FIVE percent, but sounds absolutely glorious, don't look at the measurements, just listen.
No, you should look at the measurements even more so in that case, because that 5% THD is why you hear a difference. It's just that said distortion is one that you find pleasing. Same reason many people, myself included, use tube amps for headphones. When you eliminate the variables like distortion, you find out that amps pretty much sound the same regardless of cost.
Theres nothing wrong with preferring some distortion in the mix to spice it up (i am a sucker for headphone tube amps for this reason), but you have to recognize that you do prefer the distortion if you want to make good purchasing decisions off of it. You're using the distortion as a natural tone control, and that may affect what other equipment you choose to buy.
The real hard to swallow pill for many is that you could get close to replicating that distortion with an equalizer, if that sound signature is your highest priority and you already have a good sounding amp with little distortion. It's the other factors that should influence cost, such as material choice, build quality, quality control, presentation, collector value, etc.
You are right, though, that when it comes to sub percent THD, its probably not gonna impact much, so the original asker probably shouldnt be focusing on the THD that much.
I'm the original asker.. I'm not focusing on THD spec. Mostly trying to understand it. Every manufacturer lists it. When shopping for a new receiver I try to get some info from the specs. And I suspected I wouldn't hear a difference but wanted to ask. I've read about audio types spending hundreds of dollars on equipment and cables trying to lower the noise floor in what sounds like sub 1 % range. So i don't know maybe there's something to the sub 1% distortion.. beats me. I don't want to muck around in any of that.. But again, trying to understand
I have to say I preferred the sound of KT88 compared to SE in audio show environment. KT88 push-pull ultra-linear with high feedback and tight bass, clear highs. Much lower THD too.
@@hwpno3 I agree with the OP here. On the flipside a lot of gear with low THD sounds lifeless and sterile, especially if you are listening to music with actual instruments especially acoustic instruments. It is not as noticeable with sampled or electronic music. Not all distortion is created equal of course, and what I find interesting about all this is that manufacturers so far have not seemed to figure out how to eat their cake and have it to with THD numbers being low and still delivering music that is pleasing. My evidence? A lot of people chasing lower THD numbers never stop; cables, dacs, forver swapping new transparent gear in and out when they could just simply be listening to music and enjoying it. But hey, when was audiophilery ever about that? 🤣 It often feels like the whole hobby is chasing what it had years ago with vinyl but somehow can't get there.
@@chungang7037 The clue is in the name High FIDELITY, then again, unless you listen with a scope, loudpeakers are so atrocious in that respect, that any source/amp combo with less than 0.1% is already winning.
Several overseas brands give better performance per dollar than anything domestic. Even Emotiva manufactures manufactures many different components overseas.
Distortions is introduced in audio amplifier due the non linearity of transistors amplification characteristics . However modern Mosfets has a better non linear amplification characteristics than the older Bjts .
Paul, there are countless people that swear by specs.
They insist that everything can be measured (which is wrong).
Everything you said was spot-on correct. Excellent advice.
Given two choices:
1) Great sounding system, with bad specs.
2) Bad sounding system, with great specs.
I would choose #1.
But there are many "obsessed with specs" people out there that would choose #2. it floats their boat. More power to them.
When I purchased my stereo, specs never entered my mind. I simply listened to what they had in several stores, and purchased the one that sounded the best (within my budget). No regrets.
I listen with my ears; not my eyes.
I suggest that Henry in Michigan find a way to listen to the receivers he is considering. That can be difficult, and if in different stores, can sound wildly different, due to any number of varying conditions in the different stores.
Plan "B" is to check reviews, from reputable reviewers, who focus on sound quality. But that, too, can be difficult. Finding a review on a specific receiver, and by someone whose ear you can trust, is very difficult.
That is why I was please to hear you (Paul) give Henry that Emotiva recommendation.
Without having access to plan "A" or plan "B", the Emotiva option is an easy choice, and will probably sound way better than the receivers that Henry was considering.
Everything relevant *can* be measured.
Whether it is measured and whether the measurements are interpreted correctly it's a different matter.
@@m.williams3176 that is not true.
@@m.williams3176 Quote:
"Everything relevant can be measured.
Whether it is measured and whether the measurements are interpreted correctly it's a different matter."
End Quote.
Soundstaging is relevant.
Given two sets of quality speakers, please explain how to measure which of the speakers throws a wider soundstage.
@@NoEgg4utry looking at specs like:
- Spectral decay
- Time alignment of the drivers
- Phase response of the speakers
- Horizontal & vertical dispersion patterns
- Multi-tone harmonic distortion
- Dynamic range
- Compression
- Linearity (linked to compression)
- Impedance & phase (this can mess with the amplifier)
There's so many specs for a speaker other than sensitivity and frequency response. Buried deep in the interaction of all those specs is your detail retrieval & soundstage width / height.
Just because you or I don't understand how to relate those specs to the sound of the speakers doesn't mean that soundstage width and depth can't be measured.
Interesting topic, Paul. I've heard audiophiles argue about which rectifier tube sounds best in a particular amplifier. That being said, I recently sold a Western Electric rectifier tube used for 100 bucks! It was found in an assortment of tubes I found at a yard sale.......................
Wow Paul recommending another brand I'm having a Miracle on 34th Street moment
Overseas has some of the best stuff!
Solid advise.
Just be careful and compare apples to apples. Some manufacturers specify THD only at 1 KHz and 1 W output, for example, but some others may specify THD at full rated power, and even across the entire audio frequency band, etc.
Don't compare apples just listen to it.
Great comments.
I struggle with THD. I don't understand why amp subjective sound is not reflected in THD.
THD is a static signal test. It uses a continually repeating sinewave. One way to lower THD is to take some of the output of an amp or stage in one and feed some of it back to compare to the input. If the output is not tracking the input, the feedback loop will compensate. But this can only happen after a signal has passed through the stage and is then very slightly later fed back. This settles the distortion down after a few cycles of the continuous sinewave.
Music is not a continuous repeating sinewave. It is constantly changing. So by the time the initial signal transient has gone through a stage, it is too late to compensate for it with feedback. Feeding some of it back (to pass through again at a lower level) just muddies, blurs the sound.
Good amp design is to be stable without needing lots or any feedback.
@@glenncurry3041 great explanation, thank you
YAMAHA A-S801
great one !
In amp design I put my trust in Mister Nelson Pass.
Thanks for the advice Paul. Interestingly, I have been considering an Emotiva 9.2 channel receiver. If nothing else they give more amp specs than the others. I'm still chugging along with my Marantz receiver. It's not that old and the front panel display went dead. Everything still works but very annoying!!! I hate that little port hole display Marantz uses anyway so time for a new one
Tubes :-) I built a Leech low TIM amp years back, and a dual monoblock LM4780 and a Emotiva 5 channel driving some S1010s. All sound slightly different, but very close with significantly different specs.
Funny how almost NO ONE talks about global negative feedback loops these days. I wonder why that is?
Good answer Paul.
lol
Simply because this is not source of the problem...
Many companies want to brag about THD specs, but not admit how it was achieved.
years ago I was gradually upgrading my system w first,, a turntable w magnetic cartridge,,a preamp so I could get decent phono audio out of a panasonic amfm stereo receiver about ten/15 wpc,playing a beethoven stokowsky recording on london records,all 4 mvts on one record, there was distortion on the inner groove track,,I bought a used german made turntable resulting in greatly improved clear sound throughout this record
bought a solti recording of the ninth even better,a 2 record set meant superb sound
AV equipment of this age has figures of THD so low as to be meaningless near zero and unnoticeable
Go with ANY brand that you may think is good for you and can audit at home and return within 30 days.
Yeah I guess that will do as answer, and recommendation.... for this question.
The other day I cleaned the fuses in my vontage amp. The sound was cleaner and smoother after it, among other things. Exactly what distortion went down by the cleaning?
Your brain's.
A sociopathic reply from...let's see... let me think... what kind of person uses the internet to make sociopath(ic) replies? Oh, it's right on the tip of my tongue.
Contact resistance and arcing.
Special fuses are available for good reason.
Now that the sound is very noticeably better after cleaning the fuses, I'm not sure if that would lean one more toward trying premium (expensive) fuses or not. On the one hand, it proves that fuses matter. On the other hand their improved sound is at least partly due from them being new and clean and free of oxidation. It's like all the great ones say; when it comes to audio, everything matters.
Are there any non audiophile fuses without the audiophile prices, that are sonically superior?
Its the real crux in this thing we love. The white sheet matters a whole lot, a point of reference for matching components at the very least. The magic happens in the circuit design however, cant doubt that at all.
No I always disregard specs because they are meaningless as regards whether I will like something or not.
@@adotopp1865 I imagine thats quite liberating. My over-analytical mind would never allow me to do that, lol!
Shitt would be another brand that is less expensive than it sounds and an American company. Not all their products are made in the US but you know what I mean.
Shitt, I thought you were kidding. I had to read it a second time. Just checked them out. It's spelled Schiit. Not as much fun.
Shit are crap
The Emotiva Recivers only support HDMI 2.0b sadly. That's a bit outdated.
That only matters if you are a gamer and plug into the TV instead of the receiver. It will still work for most for years too come.
NAD and Cambridge are also good options
What for?
Is slu rate the same as damping factor?
No. Slew rate is the voltage that an amplifier can output in a given amount of time (usually μs). For example, an amp with a slew rate of 20V/μs can do output voltage swings of up to 20V every one microsecond, before starting to attenuate and distort the signal (in theory). Damping factor describes how many times smaller is the output impedance (resistance) of the amplifier, compared to the speakers. An amplifier that drives 8ohm speakers with a damping factor of 100, should have an output impedance of 0.08ohms. I don't think there is a standard for damping factor, so it depends on the manufacturer.
Can I see dust on a piano? I mean, it's way below, right? So it probably needs a lot of dust to be visible.
Is slu rate the same as damping factor
No Damping Factor is a ratio of the amp's output state/Power supply internal resistance and the speaker load. It helps show how much control an amp has over the speaker, cancel EMF,....
Slew rate is how fast the amp can respond. Rise time from 10% to 90% of a slope. It comes from the military, how fast a cannon turret can turn from one target to another.
Hah!😂 Most of those THD specs for surround recivers are messured at just 1ch driven @ 1kHz into 8 or 4 ohms. If you are LUCKY you get a 2ch messurement that's actually proper (2ch driven at 20-20.000Hz into 4 and 8ohm) but those numbers crumbles in surround mode. I have seen too many "5x 100w" amps that physicly are not able to deliver more than max half of that (if not as low as just a quarter) in surround mode because of the small power supply. So for actuall power ignore the watts and look at the max current the power supply can handle. And knowing what class amp it is you can easily calculate the actual continous power output. High watts and no current sucks. Rather have lower watts and higher current
Yep, 100%.
Very easy to get 100watts, 8ohms, 1 channel driven. That's only 3.5 amps, at 28.5 volts. If that power supply can only deliver, say, 4 amps, then, with 2 channels driven, you'll only get 32 watts per channel. Speakers that are only 4 ohms? Now we're down to 16 watts. When you see an amplifier rated as 5x100watts, but only consumes 150watts from the mains, then you're getting junk.
On the other end of the spectrum, my 2x50 watt amplifier has a 400 watt power supply. That thing can actually drive real world speakers...
@@RacingAnt Oh, yes! Exactly!
My 2x 150w (8ohm) / 2x 300w (4ohm) has 500w power supply on each channel (dual mono construction) so 1000w conbined and my surround reciver is reted at 7x85w (2x100w, 8ohm in stereo) into 8ohms has 1480w power supply.
I remember many years ago I had a 5x100w reciver.. 240w power supply🤣 Later when I got a 5x45w (2x50) it had 480w power supply and that amp was noticably MUCH more powerful while on paper it was supposed to have just half the output.
This is why I kinda ignore watts out and instead look at the power supply. And knoting if it is Class A, AB or D it is easy to calculate what it could actually deliver.
I recommend you 2 books: Bob Cordell designing audio power amplifiers, Douglas Self amplifier design. Answers are in them.
Or, he could ask Paul and get an answer and spend the saved time with his family. Thanks for the recommendations though. I'm going to check them out.
My pet Bat can.
Buy vintage crest amp and connect to your current receiver..
The biggest problem with THD is that it does not tell you which harmonics are making up the distortion. If you have 0.1% THD with 90% of that second order it will probably sound good. If you have most of the distortion in odd order or high order harmonics it will sound awful. Many tube amps have THD above 0.1% and still sound good because second order is the most musical of harmonics.
dont forget damping factor...keep it low. more than 100 wont move your cones. i dont understand this nowadays craze of hi and super hi damping factor. it sounds so stiff
They again use bad design, high feedback to get a high Damping Factor. Specs rather than sound.
Sounds as if you like soft, wooly, inaccurate bass. Adding a low value resistor to the woofer was an old trick to get "more" bass output, but more isn't always better. Still, if it's the sound you like, then that's great. Others may prefer to hear a taut kick drum, and be able to hear the difference between a pick or fingers on a bass guitar.
@@RacingAnt i want both..but my new hi damping factor amp doesnt move my woofers.
@@endrizonot sure the damping factor is the issue. I've heard amplifiers with damping factors of 800+ that have made speakers slam hard, and produce effortless, stress free, deep bass.
@@RacingAnt ok..thanks
If you don't have money to buy high-end audio just make it yourself😊
What is THD !!!!
Total harmonic distortion.
Total harmonic distortion. If you put in a 1Khz sine wave, how much does the amp generate in harmonics, multiples of that signal? So measure how much signal at 2Khz, 3Khz, 4Khz,.... is in the output that was not in the input. And compare that to the 1Khz level coming out. Say you have 10V out at 1Khz and all the others add up to 1V you have 10% THD.
SINAD and all that BS are pretty useless in telling how something sounds.
Of course amplifiers can sound different and most important is the circuits are designed by passionate experienced engineers who actually listen test to their designs. The BOM cost or product cost is not a reliable indicator for the audio fidelity. Also I agree THD, TIM, frequency response, damping factor etc. are often near useless metrics unless they are really bad.