The Houston C&C lost their Vintage Park venue because of some kid in a Genesis Coupe lost control and hit a tree. A separate event lost their Towne Lake venue because some kid spun out and hit a curb trying to show off their moms Tahoe. Seems like if anything they should ban participants under 25, or ban the crowd at the exit with their phones out waiting to catch the next viral crash.
I would say they should get three responsible guys from the club. Interview anyone who wants to bring their car to future meets telling them the rules. Give them a pass that is permanent based on their behavior. If they act out, take away the pass.
we need to ban under 25 from a lot more than car meets, can we start with the tech world, every piece of tech they touch they mess up with their know it all attitude which trancends into hiring and recruiting to the point where us serious engineers seriously dont want anything to do with the industry.
This is a great way to end off the month. I’m currently working on finding both a reliable work car and my next e36/e46 project car and you are the only automotive channel that doesn’t make me feel like a loser for not also having them. If you do this series consistently, I think “And that’s what I think about that” is the most fitting sign off for your combination of content and personality. You speak frankly and unabashedly and that line just seems to pair with the style perfectly.
In my town of Cary NC, this problem was solved with an entrance fee for all attendees for the car owners to the event organizers. A portion of that fee was then goes to the town to pay for police presence at the event to prevent burnouts and bad behavior. Yes, it has echoes of Mafia protection, extortion money, and of a police state. But we have no bad behavior or burnouts from attendees now. It is a shame that a few bad people always, ALWAYS, ruin it for everyone else.
What event are you referring to? I'm heavily into the Triangle car scene and I don't think I've been to an event in Cary since the Echo Park C&C shut down last year. Cary has the reputation of being the most unfriendly town to car events of any in the area.
Our local CofC has talked about this, what has come up is the real problems haven't been these banned cars and many times its not even the participants. People driving by have acted stupid. Last year they had a local police officer there who didn't do anything but block exiting traffic. This year they will have a sheriff. We'll see how that goes.
@flamestoyershadowkill6400 Those people are wrong. Ever heard of a TR6 with Lewis fuel injection? Not a modern car. How about the Mercedes 300SL's fuel injection? Definitely nothing but a classic.
I think it should be any car over 30 years, right? a 20 year old car is just old. Kinda how the 60s/70s care were just old in the 80s, but now they're hot.
No, its total BS. I as a responsible Mustang Owner in my mid 40s that doesn't do stupid stuff, am now banned and can't attend these events because of the actions of a bunch of stupid kids.
This type of behavior is everywhere. Here in NorCal it could come from any type of owner, driving any type of car, at any type of event. And there’s always a crowd big enough egging it on. This whole problem is a deeper car culture problem than most will admit. People love seeing it, no matter how it ends. Social media gets so moist over it. It got to the point where I decided to currently not engage with my local car scene in any way. And that’s sad, because I do miss it. I can’t be the only person deciding this because of a potential bad situation. I feel that car enthusiasts coming to this decision is almost worse than the ones causing problems, or these blanket bans that come across as lazy and reactive at best. The people causing problems will always want to come back. Quiet people who behave and want no drama may not. Maybe we can’t have nice things?
It's not just cars. You cant have a nice event ANYWHERE now without some jackass misbehaving and ruining things. So many people out there are desperate for attention, and society has been trained to not stand up and tell the sore thumbs to get f**ked.
Here in Houston, mustangs, camaros, chargers, challengers are literally a dime a dozen. Rebadged civics if you will. Very happy that modern muscle is not allowed any longer at our C&C
I appreciate this short-form opinion video essay from you. I think this type of video can compliment your RCR stories while also allowing smaller topics to have a moment in the light of Roman.
I stumbled upon a "car show" that had almost all new (2000s and newer) Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers ... the only two cars that were different and had people surrounding them to look at them was a VW Thang and a DeLorean. Even the enthusiast around the modern muscle cars had that "Seen it, own it" attitude and were flocking to something different.
Everyone wants to see something unique, whether they like to admit it or not. I'm the only local with a Baja bug and it always draws a ton of attention.
I dont understand why they're not putting out individual bans....oh, wait did you say Challengers? Nvmnd, I understand completely. We got to keep up those ratios for appearance sake.
If I was running the show, I'd have cars sign up with info and a proper set of rules of conduct. Getting in would require you to submit info about your car such as make, model, color, plate #. Then if someone is being disruptive, you can identify that specific individual and revoke their ticket for future events (or give them temp. suspensions for first time offenders). Of course, the issue here is big corporations not wanting something bad to happen so they don't have bad PR associated with their name b/c that's all that really matters. They could care less if someone is hurt or killed, they just don't want that to be with their name stamped on the flag above it.
If they grew the event up, like Hot Rod Power Tour, Cleetus and Cars, Woodward Dream Cruise, LS Fest and held the event at a racetrack or huge stadium parking lot, they could set up one or more supervised events like an autocross, drift course, short drag strip or burnout box and there would be significantly less reason or temptation for anyone to act like a hooligan on the streets near the event, how can a bunch of people who are supposed to enthusiasts and companies that promote ownership of fast street cars expect people to not drive fast on the street, that is the most hipocritical thing I ever heard, if these were all illegal racecars being trailered there to only be shown that would be one thing, this is a celebration of fast street legal vehicles, grow up the event, make more money and give these people a designated place to show off and have fun. If the place where the event happens is against that, move it to somewhere that will accommodate it, the event certainly brings money to the businesses in the vicinity of the event selling fuel, food and so on its horse to say they don't and they need to accommodate the visitors and attendees, even if it means having police block off a section of a side road, setting up concrete barriers, wetting the road and letting people do a rolling burnie with supervision and relative safety, this Fudd attitude is disgusting and stupid.
Safety, perceived or otherwise, is usually going to be one of the top priorities for an event organizer. There is insurance needed to cover an event, the reputational risk for the organizers and sponsors, plus the litigious fallout if something were to happen.
Honestly as a VQ owner i would support this even if/when this comes to my locale and they come for G/Z's. I mean, id just park somewhere away from the event and walk just to be able to still have these events at all
It's still stupid, it's the police's jobs to give bad actors tickets and not right to punish everyone for what a couple people do and it's extremely stupid from a business standpoint.
This is why classic guys have our own meets and don’t let new car guys in. Often times they are totally different kinds of people who have unique cars for opposite reasons. I drive my little Falcon because it legitimately makes people smile, seems that new muscle guys get a messed hellcat to piss people off.
My 69 Falcon was loud, anoying, and slow. I loved pissing people off with it. Especially since I work night shift in a residential area and drove it to work. Make friends with the PD around you and you won't get noise complaints
@@existinginaspace8347 Oh mine is loud and slow, but it makes people excited not angry. I dunno when you owned yours but maybe there's a statute of limitations on when people decide a car is too old to be mad at.
If it's invitational-only, it's no longer Cars & Coffee. It's now just another big car show. The whole point of Cars & Coffee is to be a more casual car show with a wider, non-gatekept variety of vehicles. Perhaps it is time for that car show to no longer be a C&C event.
@@tman1990 Yeah, it just becomes an arms race of pettiness, which is why I think the overall ban is ridiculous. If something goes down between disgruntled owners and the organizers next time they host it, I have to blame the organizers for banning an entire group and expecting it to play out well.
I used to like supercharged engines but those days are over. Every Friday and Saturday night in the downtown area of every major Texas city, there will always be at least one asshat in a modern muscle car revving their engine at a given point in time. The owners of these cars are worse than Harley owners.
1.) Sometimes it’s not “a few bad apples.” It’s 98 out of 100 ruining things for the other two. 2.) If something happens 85% of the time, it’s more true than stereotype. 3.) Perception is everything.
There is a completely unorganized meet in Rancho Santa Fe (Uber-rich suburb north of San Diego) that happens every Saturday morning, hundreds of people show up and there is literally zero organizing body involved which is likely the only reason the old ladies haven’t shut it down yet. I attend and I’ve personally seen several multi-million dollar vintage Ferraris, 300SL Gullwings, 1920’s coachbuilt cars like Packards, Porsche 959’s, every flavor of 911 you could ever imagine, hell Doug DeMuro personally shows up a lot of the time in his Carrera GT. Yeah we have some bad actors but they typically get the evil eye from those in attendance. It proves it can be done even without big-money sponsorship and I think letting in corporate money is making a deal with the devil, sooner or later there’s a catch when their interests conflict with yours.
Yeah guys, it can happen anywhere. As long as the only people for miles are millionaires preening for one another and you're surrounded by state parks and a canyon keeping the riff-raff at bay. Anyone's welcome to show up to the impromptu country club car meet.
Safety issues aside, who wants to see a parking lot full of identical, almost-new mass-market cars, when there are plenty of interesting retros, custom builds, exotics and supercars filling the invitational lot? The sponsors know what they're doing! (Full disclosure: My '96 Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon was accepted by Houston C&C for display on Retro Appreciation Day.)
Very cool I enjoyed the Roman report. And honestly, as far as car shows are concerned all you need is my family of dealerships. Screw the Astros! Sincerely, Joel, Kunkleman, Dealer Principal, Kunkleman Fiat / Mazda / Yugo.
...in EU...some mainstream TV cable providers started to ban and remove american channels where are frequented series about muscle and super cars... Also NASCAR and Monster Jam were removed from spor channels...
Wow, how times have changed. I can recall going to car shows in the 80s-90, maybe to about the mid 2000s and I recall very few people driving like butt holes ,doing holeshots, leaving the parking lot like a maniac, showing off. It was 95% low keyed. My 86 Olds 442 isnt too bad running mid 12s but it never crossed my mind to drive like a jerk in a parking lot at a car show or leaving the show doing fish tails, running into the curb or slamming into a crowd of people. Shows were more about bench racing while drinking a beer with your hood popped, checking out the sound of that lumpy bump stick in your mill. However, as you talked about, these were classic muscle cars owned by people who weren't total ass wipes.
Douchebag enthusiasts are a real issue and not just at car meets. The problem is that the authorities always come up with the worst kinds of passive aggressive solutions. I feel like there are plenty of things that could be done to discourage bad behavior without resorting to bans. If an asshole is acting up within the event, issue a warning, then a fine and ultimately a permaban. When leaving, create narrow exit lanes so that drivers don't have the room for antics. Have cops standing around with cameras so if someone acts up, they snap a pic of the license plate and the driver gets a hefty fine in the mail. There's also the insufferably aggressive, ego-fueled nature of American car culture but that's a whole separate discussion.
A) I suspect this ban wasn’t the first move. I suspect this is a result of a series of repeated offenses by a bunch of different drivers and ultimately it was decided to ban them outright. This isn’t a surprise to anyone that watches car stuff on social media and knows it’s always the same people and cars blocking intersections to do burnouts, doing burnouts leaving the meets, and crashing into medians and other cars. B) the insufferable aggressive ego-fueled American car culture IS precisely the topic of this discussion.
Been getting worse as the whole "takeover" trend makes its way to other gatherings and shows. The banned cars, especially the Dodges, are the cheapest and easiest to get.
A few years ago car meets in my area were plentiful, they were fully legit, planned by an organisation, permits etc local businesses promoting good with stalls etc. Unfortunately there was just too many people doing burnouts leaving the event or just around the area, people making excessive noise by doing 2step battles. Eventually none of the organisations or groups etc could get permits for legit car meets and the impromptu ones were quickly shut down by police. Now there just isn't any car meets anymore.
There's a car show in Redmond WA called Exotics at Redmond Town Center that does a few things to keep things under control. 1) An approved list of cars that can be part of the display area (viewable on their site), 2) a specific entrance point with security that gets combined with 3) a list of banned individuals/specific cars who behave badly.
Yes these days some people don’t take responsibility most of us just want a show and coffee. But guess it is hard for some when egged on doing things their vehicle or skills can cause things go poorly. Come on it’s a meet (show and coffee) not a race or burnout box. Find a track or go to Mexico
I wondered about having a separate burnout/rev area. However, the cost of liability insurance and security countermeasures would be exponentially higher.
@@HoneyBakedHam7 it’s annoying and unwanted even if they don’t actually break anything. The only ones that enjoy muscle cars doing burnouts are the attention seeking drivers and those who can’t afford to be those same attention seeking drivers.
@@ROVA00 I agree, but if they don’t want to understand why muscle cars are being banned, then you price them out of wanting to show up. And those that will still pay will be on their best behavior because they literally paid to show off their cars. I’m thinking a starting point of $500 per muscle car entry.
Requiring owners of these specific muscle cars to register or get/request an invite to event is a smart alternative to just flat-out banning them. Like you said, it then allows the organizers to hold people accountable.
As someone whos attended coffee and cars in Houston for the past 10 years, im fine with modern muscle being banned from these events. These cars are nothing special, you see them everyday in Houston. Like how unique can a dodge charger be? Definitely better than the occasional modified chevy cruze I see there tho...
Another great video, I like the idea of this one. if you can do more that would be cool. Thanks for the great content. It actually helps listening to or watching the videos at work. I work as a technician and a lot of the regular car reviews have got me through some really crappy days. Anyway, have a good one.
Modern muscle cars are a dime a dozen. Burnouts, donuts, and engine revving takes no real skill and is not impressive. I support this ban. Leave the limited time and space of C & C for actually interesting cars.
I used to have a Charger Daytona. It was fast-ish for 2008, but, by 2015, not so much. But, because of the way it looked, I constantly had people trying to goad me into engaging into street racing.
This is how you know the Horsepower Wars of the last decade or two has gone way, way too far. Modern cars have a disgusting amount of power and are sold to people with zero self control and no other legal outlet to have some fun with their cars. We need more racetracks and more drag tracks or these people who have spent way too much on their overpowered cars will find other ways to get the thrills they want. We can pretend otherwise and take draconian actions, but people ultimately need some way to blow off some steam.
I like the report format. I'd tell a friend, but I don't have any. I've got a wife, and two teenage kids that I have nothing in common with. I love them, and they love me, but we just have nothing in common other than having the same last name. I work at a call center where they stagger our breaks and lunches so that I hardly ever see the same person long enough to establish enough of working relationship that I would feel comfortable recommending them a youtube channel. I did give the video an earned like though, so there's that.
If these organizers really want to weed out the bad actors, the organisers would become friends with the local sheriff's department. My experience is the most of the deputies really enjoy the car shows, but they will not tolerate the assholes that decide they want to show just how big of a dick they are and pull stunts like that. Pretty simple solution, and one that makes everybody but the assholes happy.
What's this, bonus RCR videos? Nicely done, Roman, I won't turn down a monthly automotive story, though I do think the RCR stories are more important. For the Houston C&C, having invitation only is the best choice, if you make it invite only just for the Muscle, it's discriminatory, blah blah blah
Why do people think their run-of-the-mill Challenger, Mustang, Camaro, Charger, etc… think that these particular cars in question are interesting to begin with? They’re literally everywhere! I don’t know about anyone else but I’d much rather see things that you don’t see everyday, like a showroom clean Volvo 240 that someone’s grandma gave them or some rust-bucket 80’s Toyota that is somehow still hanging on by a thread. Those are the REAL cars, the cars that have stories. Something you can’t walk into a dealership to buy today.
Challengers are about the only muscle car I can get with in todays era it still boasts its classic counter part looks and same dimensions as the 70-74 challenger
Its called Coffee and Cars not Coffee and Classic Cars. That might be a clue. If it were classics only that would also eliminate all the supercars that attend and of course, that wouldn't fly.
You'd absolutely get banned from GoodWood if you did donuts and burnouts in the show or parking area, but they have the Time Trial (hill climb/driveway) and Circuit where people can Hoon. Maybe this car show needs something similar, it sounds like a pretty big show, that spreads out a bit, why not designate a burnout area (parking lot) with guard rails and crowd control. They could even charge muscle car drivers 10 bucks for their 5 mins on the burnout pad, and make enough money to resurface the lot at the end..
💯 you should continue this if you have time. I understand the ban and they have some validity, but banning all isn't fair either. Me personally I'm not going to a car show to see modern mustangs, chargers and challengers. They're like assholes, they're everywhere, and there isn't anything particularly special about them
The ban is justified, because frankly modern muscle cars are just regular traffic, I wouldn’t even look at them at a show. It’s like if I brought my G35 Coupe instead of my 84 Supra,
I honestly do not blame them for doing this in a sense. You have no idea the amount of times a car meet got shut down because of this behavior. Like I know its like elementary school type of vibe, but if you are going to act like a child then get ready to be treated like one 🤷🏽. Thats my take. Ofc its not just muscle cars but the majority in this city has been muscle cars from what I’ve seen and from what I’ve heard. I think event hosts are just getting tired of this same shit happening over and over again.
just a comment on the windows not going all the way down, it''s usually less a case of passenger safety and more a case of rear doors often having a wheelwell making fully lowering the windows impossible. (can't say this is always the case, but it is often the reason)
I think you missed an opportunity to upload a/the roman report on april 1st, in full roman senator clothes, talking about a meeting of horseless, self propelling carriages in old latin. ... with translated subtitles for me please.
All attendees should have to register with driver's license and VIN. If you get caught doing burnouts, you and your car get banned. Both the VIN and the license can be easily scanned and automatically registered so it shouldn't be too terrible logistically
Funny thing is, about a month ago I had a guy walk almost 100 feet to me and say, thank you for driving a real car down here on main Street in Huntington Beach when 2 cheese balls in straight piped mustangs were acting like idiots :/ I actually laughed
You need actual registration. You go online, fill out a form with your name, address, DL number, license plate, make/model/year/color etc. Invite is then emailed to you with a QR code. You show up, have your code scanned and then you go about enjoying the meet. If you do something dumb, all they need to do is get a recording of it and ban you from future events. If needed it can go to the police who will then have all of your info and evidence of you doing it. If they can't behave, they have to be punished.
Bans have been a regular thing here since at least 1998 when illegal street racing on Rankin Rd (a tradition that went back to the 70's) ended with 3 people dead and 4 or 5 more severely injured back in 1998, and this caught the attention of literally everybody in town.. In response HPD and Harris County Sheriff's Dept began their own tradition or cracking down hard on car gatherings sporadically making life a living hell for anybody hosting them over the years who got complaints or frequent compliance violations. Sometimes justified, sometimes complete bullshit. But as the problem children got more and more obnoxious over the years and the authorities got more and more authoritarian about it, hosts of gathers have either taken public events completely private (invite-only) so as not to have to deal with the cops and media, or permanently cancelled events altogether, while others like thos one have had to outright ban certain subcultures (you know the ones, everyone does...). Anytime there are noise and safety things this is the default outcome; people and car types get banned because the punishments lobbed at the gathering's establishment are way too severe and ridiculous to justify banning, or just not allowing car gatherings at all and losing venues is getting more and more frequent. All and all this is nothing, compared to the batshit tactics the cops were using to arrest anyone and everyone at car shows they possibly could. Look at the infamous mass arrest and vehicle impound from the K-Mart parking lot on Westheimer Rd in 2002 (google it!)
As a heads up......to be truly classified as a muscle car it must be a two door sport roofed version of the four door formal roofed model. If it don't fit into that it is something else. As for the ban, this is what happens when the many are too afraid to make few follow the rules. It's ok to hold people to a common level. Participation awards are the cancer of a society. If someone is acting out of spec it is ok to slightly adjust those individuals.
I drive an ecoboost mustang, that has been built for daily/drift stuff in Houston - and I don’t go to Coffee and Cars but I was upset knowing that I CANT go even if I wanted knowing I’m not one of the idiots that do the dumb stuff That being said, I’m not TOTALLY against the decision
The one I attend. Lake Washington, almost got shut down due to a bunch of Audi A4 and BMW 3 series drivers trying to get attention. We technically can't ban cars from our location (Public park) I suggested we ban anything German that isn't a performance model (RS/S Audi's, Porsches, AMG Mercs, and M level BMWs.) That and anything with Nissan VQ V6's. Those trumpets hearold trouble on the horizon.
The reoccurring example character names remind me of Lewis Grizzards’ writings. I hope Tommy Fenstermacher will one day be regarded as a great American just like Weyman C. Wannamaker Jr.
“Modern mustang” definitely needs to be defined a bit more. Red Betty is 20yo. My 94 mustang is 30yo. ….that’s a classic mustang, right? It’s an SN95. Red Betty is a 21st century SN95. I only went to one cars and coffee, in Dallas. It was over a decade ago, as Im not a morning person, and the only stupid stuff people did was due to peer pressure. There were signs telling you what not to do as you left, but there would be a crowd of people cheering you on. It was pretty intense. But there were also several officers parked nearby, and they would pull over each and every person “exhibiting speed.” I was too afraid to even accelerate over 2000 RPMs out of fear that the police would pull me over simply due to the sound. I disappointed everyone there that was watching. I disappointed myself and my car. But modern me wonders if they were only cheering people on BECAUSE they wanted them to get caught.
The accepted delineation is anything 25 years old or older is "classic", and everything newer is "modern" (that's the way car shows tend to be split up). I'd have to argue though that anything made from 2005 and newer is "modern" for American muscle cars.
1:19 How about "Times New Roman"?
Okay... that's better than my idea.
Dodge Calibri
that's a latest Queens of the stone age album :P
New Times Roman
New Roman Times
The Houston C&C lost their Vintage Park venue because of some kid in a Genesis Coupe lost control and hit a tree. A separate event lost their Towne Lake venue because some kid spun out and hit a curb trying to show off their moms Tahoe. Seems like if anything they should ban participants under 25, or ban the crowd at the exit with their phones out waiting to catch the next viral crash.
I would say they should get three responsible guys from the club. Interview anyone who wants to bring their car to future meets telling them the rules. Give them a pass that is permanent based on their behavior. If they act out, take away the pass.
I remember the tahoe one. Think he almost hit a pole 💀. He went into the grass too.
we need to ban under 25 from a lot more than car meets, can we start with the tech world, every piece of tech they touch they mess up with their know it all attitude which trancends into hiring and recruiting to the point where us serious engineers seriously dont want anything to do with the industry.
Suspensions were not lifted, they were lowered.
Well done
Im surprised that this was the Muscle car scene and not the 350/370z + infinit scene.
Those guys are typically working at the vape shop when the show happens
Meh the VQ will bend a rod before any torque is made
It's cars and coffee. The muscle car owners have jobs and can wake up for a cars and coffee event. Those guys are the midnight racers.
@@RAD-RC lot of boomers own muscle cars and they sleep in due to age
Cause it's Texas, every drives challengers, 2500s, Camaros, f-150 and Silverados.
This is a great way to end off the month. I’m currently working on finding both a reliable work car and my next e36/e46 project car and you are the only automotive channel that doesn’t make me feel like a loser for not also having them. If you do this series consistently, I think “And that’s what I think about that” is the most fitting sign off for your combination of content and personality. You speak frankly and unabashedly and that line just seems to pair with the style perfectly.
In my town of Cary NC, this problem was solved with an entrance fee for all attendees for the car owners to the event organizers. A portion of that fee was then goes to the town to pay for police presence at the event to prevent burnouts and bad behavior. Yes, it has echoes of Mafia protection, extortion money, and of a police state. But we have no bad behavior or burnouts from attendees now. It is a shame that a few bad people always, ALWAYS, ruin it for everyone else.
Classic example of bottom quartile law
Look at what's happened to Daytona bike week
What event are you referring to? I'm heavily into the Triangle car scene and I don't think I've been to an event in Cary since the Echo Park C&C shut down last year. Cary has the reputation of being the most unfriendly town to car events of any in the area.
Our local CofC has talked about this, what has come up is the real problems haven't been these banned cars and many times its not even the participants. People driving by have acted stupid. Last year they had a local police officer there who didn't do anything but block exiting traffic. This year they will have a sheriff. We'll see how that goes.
Not going to lie, when i was stationed at fort bragg, i frequent the Morrisville C&C a lot.
"classic" is when the owner cares about their cars enough not to do burnouts and revs. (Bonus points for mentioning the Hawthorne Effect).
Naked Dennis Gage bussin in his own hat in the back seat. That's who doesn't do burnouts in a muscle car.
What's the Hawthorne effect?
@@testcrit701 Roman explains it in the video quite well. Better than my professors in management science did.
That can still be anyone though.
The muscle car is built to get beat on and destroyed if your looking for that go get some luxobarge cruiser
Anything pre-1999 is a classic. Quarter of a century is the cutoff.
Some people use classic to refer to carbirated cars. If it is fuel injection it is not classic
@flamestoyershadowkill6400
Those people are wrong. Ever heard of a TR6 with Lewis fuel injection? Not a modern car. How about the Mercedes 300SL's fuel injection? Definitely nothing but a classic.
New Edge Mustang is classic now ❤
I think it should be any car over 30 years, right? a 20 year old car is just old. Kinda how the 60s/70s care were just old in the 80s, but now they're hot.
@@ItsJustaMeNow 25 years is the standard set by the NHRA and is generally accepted as the cutoff.
Thumbs up for Roman
Up, up!
No u
No, its total BS. I as a responsible Mustang Owner in my mid 40s that doesn't do stupid stuff, am now banned and can't attend these events because of the actions of a bunch of stupid kids.
@@Spazilton1he’s only making the video, he’s not the coordinator of Houston cars & coffee or (hope not) the owners doing burnouts
This type of behavior is everywhere. Here in NorCal it could come from any type of owner, driving any type of car, at any type of event. And there’s always a crowd big enough egging it on. This whole problem is a deeper car culture problem than most will admit. People love seeing it, no matter how it ends. Social media gets so moist over it. It got to the point where I decided to currently not engage with my local car scene in any way. And that’s sad, because I do miss it. I can’t be the only person deciding this because of a potential bad situation.
I feel that car enthusiasts coming to this decision is almost worse than the ones causing problems, or these blanket bans that come across as lazy and reactive at best. The people causing problems will always want to come back. Quiet people who behave and want no drama may not. Maybe we can’t have nice things?
Couldn't have phrased this better myself. Very well put.
It's not just cars. You cant have a nice event ANYWHERE now without some jackass misbehaving and ruining things. So many people out there are desperate for attention, and society has been trained to not stand up and tell the sore thumbs to get f**ked.
Too many people wanting to play out the original version of Let’s Get It Started with their car
Here in Houston, mustangs, camaros, chargers, challengers are literally a dime a dozen. Rebadged civics if you will. Very happy that modern muscle is not allowed any longer at our C&C
I appreciate this short-form opinion video essay from you. I think this type of video can compliment your RCR stories while also allowing smaller topics to have a moment in the light of Roman.
I stumbled upon a "car show" that had almost all new (2000s and newer) Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers ... the only two cars that were different and had people surrounding them to look at them was a VW Thang and a DeLorean. Even the enthusiast around the modern muscle cars had that "Seen it, own it" attitude and were flocking to something different.
Everyone wants to see something unique, whether they like to admit it or not. I'm the only local with a Baja bug and it always draws a ton of attention.
I dont understand why they're not putting out individual bans....oh, wait did you say Challengers? Nvmnd, I understand completely. We got to keep up those ratios for appearance sake.
In Houston too, so yes
Stereotypes are earned
I went to a car meet a few weeks ago in Houston and this exact problem shut down the car meet. Cops came and told everyone to leave.
If I was running the show, I'd have cars sign up with info and a proper set of rules of conduct. Getting in would require you to submit info about your car such as make, model, color, plate #. Then if someone is being disruptive, you can identify that specific individual and revoke their ticket for future events (or give them temp. suspensions for first time offenders). Of course, the issue here is big corporations not wanting something bad to happen so they don't have bad PR associated with their name b/c that's all that really matters. They could care less if someone is hurt or killed, they just don't want that to be with their name stamped on the flag above it.
If they grew the event up, like Hot Rod Power Tour, Cleetus and Cars, Woodward Dream Cruise, LS Fest and held the event at a racetrack or huge stadium parking lot, they could set up one or more supervised events like an autocross, drift course, short drag strip or burnout box and there would be significantly less reason or temptation for anyone to act like a hooligan on the streets near the event, how can a bunch of people who are supposed to enthusiasts and companies that promote ownership of fast street cars expect people to not drive fast on the street, that is the most hipocritical thing I ever heard, if these were all illegal racecars being trailered there to only be shown that would be one thing, this is a celebration of fast street legal vehicles, grow up the event, make more money and give these people a designated place to show off and have fun. If the place where the event happens is against that, move it to somewhere that will accommodate it, the event certainly brings money to the businesses in the vicinity of the event selling fuel, food and so on its horse to say they don't and they need to accommodate the visitors and attendees, even if it means having police block off a section of a side road, setting up concrete barriers, wetting the road and letting people do a rolling burnie with supervision and relative safety, this Fudd attitude is disgusting and stupid.
Safety, perceived or otherwise, is usually going to be one of the top priorities for an event organizer. There is insurance needed to cover an event, the reputational risk for the organizers and sponsors, plus the litigious fallout if something were to happen.
But that would take effort and thought; can’t have that, gotta react
Honestly as a VQ owner i would support this even if/when this comes to my locale and they come for G/Z's. I mean, id just park somewhere away from the event and walk just to be able to still have these events at all
Musclebros acting like musclebros, get slapped down for their conduct and go full surprised pikachu.
It's still stupid, it's the police's jobs to give bad actors tickets and not right to punish everyone for what a couple people do and it's extremely stupid from a business standpoint.
@@hendo337Sounds like a great personal argument and opportunity for starting your own event in Houston!🎉
@@hendo337Which doesn't work if the event doesn't have police presence.
@@hendo337Found the muclebro coping
@@Undertaker93wow nice roast
This is why classic guys have our own meets and don’t let new car guys in. Often times they are totally different kinds of people who have unique cars for opposite reasons. I drive my little Falcon because it legitimately makes people smile, seems that new muscle guys get a messed hellcat to piss people off.
My 69 Falcon was loud, anoying, and slow. I loved pissing people off with it. Especially since I work night shift in a residential area and drove it to work.
Make friends with the PD around you and you won't get noise complaints
@@existinginaspace8347 Oh mine is loud and slow, but it makes people excited not angry. I dunno when you owned yours but maybe there's a statute of limitations on when people decide a car is too old to be mad at.
Really loved this thinkpiece. Looking forward to more monthly Roman thoughts!
If it's invitational-only, it's no longer Cars & Coffee. It's now just another big car show. The whole point of Cars & Coffee is to be a more casual car show with a wider, non-gatekept variety of vehicles.
Perhaps it is time for that car show to no longer be a C&C event.
Well the mustangs, cameros and challengers owners will just start their own events and not allow any of these other cars and coffee attendees.
@@tman1990
Yeah, it just becomes an arms race of pettiness, which is why I think the overall ban is ridiculous. If something goes down between disgruntled owners and the organizers next time they host it, I have to blame the organizers for banning an entire group and expecting it to play out well.
I downloaded NFS2: SE and I have never felt more connected to the universe.
Hell Yeah, Classic NFS
I used to like supercharged engines but those days are over. Every Friday and Saturday night in the downtown area of every major Texas city, there will always be at least one asshat in a modern muscle car revving their engine at a given point in time. The owners of these cars are worse than Harley owners.
1.) Sometimes it’s not “a few bad apples.” It’s 98 out of 100 ruining things for the other two.
2.) If something happens 85% of the time, it’s more true than stereotype.
3.) Perception is everything.
There is a completely unorganized meet in Rancho Santa Fe (Uber-rich suburb north of San Diego) that happens every Saturday morning, hundreds of people show up and there is literally zero organizing body involved which is likely the only reason the old ladies haven’t shut it down yet. I attend and I’ve personally seen several multi-million dollar vintage Ferraris, 300SL Gullwings, 1920’s coachbuilt cars like Packards, Porsche 959’s, every flavor of 911 you could ever imagine, hell Doug DeMuro personally shows up a lot of the time in his Carrera GT. Yeah we have some bad actors but they typically get the evil eye from those in attendance. It proves it can be done even without big-money sponsorship and I think letting in corporate money is making a deal with the devil, sooner or later there’s a catch when their interests conflict with yours.
Yeah guys, it can happen anywhere. As long as the only people for miles are millionaires preening for one another and you're surrounded by state parks and a canyon keeping the riff-raff at bay. Anyone's welcome to show up to the impromptu country club car meet.
Hot Rod TV takes some responsibility for this by popularizing doing ridiculous burnouts for the sake of being idiots.
Safety issues aside, who wants to see a parking lot full of identical, almost-new mass-market cars, when there are plenty of interesting retros, custom builds, exotics and supercars filling the invitational lot? The sponsors know what they're doing! (Full disclosure: My '96 Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon was accepted by Houston C&C for display on Retro Appreciation Day.)
Very cool I enjoyed the Roman report. And honestly, as far as car shows are concerned all you need is my family of dealerships. Screw the Astros! Sincerely, Joel, Kunkleman, Dealer Principal, Kunkleman Fiat / Mazda / Yugo.
...in EU...some mainstream TV cable providers started to ban and remove american channels where are frequented series about muscle and super cars...
Also NASCAR and Monster Jam were removed from spor channels...
The EU enjoys banning fun.
I really enjoyed Romans’s reports, I like that it talks about news involving the car scenes today
I love this channel:
Roman's long form informative reports and Mr. Regular's "B R O W N", and *"HOT DICKS!"*
The muscle car tomfoolery is why the Charlotte Cars & Coffee got moved locations before ultimately being cancelled for the near future.
I appreciate the mix of reporting and discussion
How about "All Roads Lead to Roman"?
Over here in Germany also many complain about burnouts. Going to a modern car meet complaining about that IS just nonsense. It's a ban of fun. 😂
Good morning
Wow, how times have changed. I can recall going to car shows in the 80s-90, maybe to about the mid 2000s and I recall very few people driving like butt holes ,doing holeshots, leaving the parking lot like a maniac, showing off. It was 95% low keyed. My 86 Olds 442 isnt too bad running mid 12s but it never crossed my mind to drive like a jerk in a parking lot at a car show or leaving the show doing fish tails, running into the curb or slamming into a crowd of people. Shows were more about bench racing while drinking a beer with your hood popped, checking out the sound of that lumpy bump stick in your mill. However, as you talked about, these were classic muscle cars owned by people who weren't total ass wipes.
thank you roman for talking about cars 👍
Douchebag enthusiasts are a real issue and not just at car meets. The problem is that the authorities always come up with the worst kinds of passive aggressive solutions.
I feel like there are plenty of things that could be done to discourage bad behavior without resorting to bans. If an asshole is acting up within the event, issue a warning, then a fine and ultimately a permaban. When leaving, create narrow exit lanes so that drivers don't have the room for antics. Have cops standing around with cameras so if someone acts up, they snap a pic of the license plate and the driver gets a hefty fine in the mail.
There's also the insufferably aggressive, ego-fueled nature of American car culture but that's a whole separate discussion.
A) I suspect this ban wasn’t the first move. I suspect this is a result of a series of repeated offenses by a bunch of different drivers and ultimately it was decided to ban them outright. This isn’t a surprise to anyone that watches car stuff on social media and knows it’s always the same people and cars blocking intersections to do burnouts, doing burnouts leaving the meets, and crashing into medians and other cars.
B) the insufferable aggressive ego-fueled American car culture IS precisely the topic of this discussion.
You seem to think cars and coffee events are more structured than they actually are.
Been getting worse as the whole "takeover" trend makes its way to other gatherings and shows. The banned cars, especially the Dodges, are the cheapest and easiest to get.
A few years ago car meets in my area were plentiful, they were fully legit, planned by an organisation, permits etc local businesses promoting good with stalls etc. Unfortunately there was just too many people doing burnouts leaving the event or just around the area, people making excessive noise by doing 2step battles. Eventually none of the organisations or groups etc could get permits for legit car meets and the impromptu ones were quickly shut down by police. Now there just isn't any car meets anymore.
Shouldn't need a permit to hang out in a parking lot. Even less so an abandoned one.
Hi ! I enjoyed this video. 😃 The title is fine for me. It’s simple, straight to the point.
You’re doing great. Keep going like this. Take care. 😄
This is how a risk adverse corporations shrink customers and profits. This is how competing events gain ground.
There's a car show in Redmond WA called Exotics at Redmond Town Center that does a few things to keep things under control. 1) An approved list of cars that can be part of the display area (viewable on their site), 2) a specific entrance point with security that gets combined with 3) a list of banned individuals/specific cars who behave badly.
God this is soo Seattle Metro area lmao.
@@CoreyGolphenee That sounds like the WORST place to go. lmao
Yes these days some people don’t take responsibility most of us just want a show and coffee. But guess it is hard for some when egged on doing things their vehicle or skills can cause things go poorly. Come on it’s a meet (show and coffee) not a race or burnout box. Find a track or go to Mexico
I wondered about having a separate burnout/rev area. However, the cost of liability insurance and security countermeasures would be exponentially higher.
Make the drivers pay for it
@@HoneyBakedHam7 you mean the drivers that will probably take off after they hit something/someone?
It’s not just the danger. It’s also annoying.
@@ROVA00 no, you charge them to be there. That way, whatever they do break, you got that coffer to give them for the damages.
@@HoneyBakedHam7 it’s annoying and unwanted even if they don’t actually break anything. The only ones that enjoy muscle cars doing burnouts are the attention seeking drivers and those who can’t afford to be those same attention seeking drivers.
@@ROVA00 I agree, but if they don’t want to understand why muscle cars are being banned, then you price them out of wanting to show up. And those that will still pay will be on their best behavior because they literally paid to show off their cars.
I’m thinking a starting point of $500 per muscle car entry.
This was really good, loved the conversational feel honestly.
Oh yeah. The Roman Report and Last Week Tonight are what keeps me informed about the important stuff happening in the world.
Requiring owners of these specific muscle cars to register or get/request an invite to event is a smart alternative to just flat-out banning them. Like you said, it then allows the organizers to hold people accountable.
As someone whos attended coffee and cars in Houston for the past 10 years, im fine with modern muscle being banned from these events. These cars are nothing special, you see them everyday in Houston. Like how unique can a dodge charger be? Definitely better than the occasional modified chevy cruze I see there tho...
"Real fart" is my favourite segment of RCR.
same
Another great video, I like the idea of this one. if you can do more that would be cool. Thanks for the great content. It actually helps listening to or watching the videos at work. I work as a technician and a lot of the regular car reviews have got me through some really crappy days. Anyway, have a good one.
Modern muscle cars are a dime a dozen. Burnouts, donuts, and engine revving takes no real skill and is not impressive. I support this ban. Leave the limited time and space of C & C for actually interesting cars.
Thanks Nick! Always enjoy your commentary. Please consider doing more videos on topics of your choosing
I used to have a Charger Daytona. It was fast-ish for 2008, but, by 2015, not so much. But, because of the way it looked, I constantly had people trying to goad me into engaging into street racing.
This is how you know the Horsepower Wars of the last decade or two has gone way, way too far. Modern cars have a disgusting amount of power and are sold to people with zero self control and no other legal outlet to have some fun with their cars. We need more racetracks and more drag tracks or these people who have spent way too much on their overpowered cars will find other ways to get the thrills they want. We can pretend otherwise and take draconian actions, but people ultimately need some way to blow off some steam.
Trouble is the NIMBYS have shut down most tracks because of "muh noise". Then they complain of street racing.
@@Nick-ue7iwlike Laguna Seca?
Bro just burnout pads will do
I like the report format. I'd tell a friend, but I don't have any. I've got a wife, and two teenage kids that I have nothing in common with. I love them, and they love me, but we just have nothing in common other than having the same last name. I work at a call center where they stagger our breaks and lunches so that I hardly ever see the same person long enough to establish enough of working relationship that I would feel comfortable recommending them a youtube channel. I did give the video an earned like though, so there's that.
If these organizers really want to weed out the bad actors, the organisers would become friends with the local sheriff's department. My experience is the most of the deputies really enjoy the car shows, but they will not tolerate the assholes that decide they want to show just how big of a dick they are and pull stunts like that. Pretty simple solution, and one that makes everybody but the assholes happy.
What's this, bonus RCR videos? Nicely done, Roman, I won't turn down a monthly automotive story, though I do think the RCR stories are more important. For the Houston C&C, having invitation only is the best choice, if you make it invite only just for the Muscle, it's discriminatory, blah blah blah
I mean, there's nothing saying you can't discriminate against car owners.
Why do people think their run-of-the-mill Challenger, Mustang, Camaro, Charger, etc… think that these particular cars in question are interesting to begin with? They’re literally everywhere! I don’t know about anyone else but I’d much rather see things that you don’t see everyday, like a showroom clean Volvo 240 that someone’s grandma gave them or some rust-bucket 80’s Toyota that is somehow still hanging on by a thread. Those are the REAL cars, the cars that have stories. Something you can’t walk into a dealership to buy today.
Challengers are about the only muscle car I can get with in todays era it still boasts its classic counter part looks and same dimensions as the 70-74 challenger
Its called Coffee and Cars not Coffee and Classic Cars. That might be a clue. If it were classics only that would also eliminate all the supercars that attend and of course, that wouldn't fly.
I used to be a “car guy” I’m not an enthusiast anymore but these are still some of my favorite videos.
Why are you not an enthusiast anymore? Or why did you used to be a car guy ?
Say it with me kids, freedom without responsibility equals consequences you probably will not like
honestly it sucks i agree, but american muscle cars have a notorious reputation for a reason
No ban of transams or g8s or gtos...
Roman content is my favourite RCR content. Just soooo good
I enjoyed this segment, would totally not mind hearing/seeing more segments like this :)
Yooo this section is great, love you Roman. Invitationals also are just an inch from making you pay for entry, on a dodgy website.
You'd absolutely get banned from GoodWood if you did donuts and burnouts in the show or parking area, but they have the Time Trial (hill climb/driveway) and Circuit where people can Hoon.
Maybe this car show needs something similar, it sounds like a pretty big show, that spreads out a bit, why not designate a burnout area (parking lot) with guard rails and crowd control. They could even charge muscle car drivers 10 bucks for their 5 mins on the burnout pad, and make enough money to resurface the lot at the end..
💯 you should continue this if you have time. I understand the ban and they have some validity, but banning all isn't fair either. Me personally I'm not going to a car show to see modern mustangs, chargers and challengers. They're like assholes, they're everywhere, and there isn't anything particularly special about them
Age limits and credit scores are probably a better metric
There's another metric too
@@millll111lllI Yeah. 13%
I would have never thought there'd be blatant racism in rcr video comments but I guess that's the age we're in
That would ban all Dodge owners then. /s
@@isveryniceyes that assertion doesn’t work as much as you hope it does. Virtue signal harder.
I love when you do videos like this. Keep it up, and be well!
The ban is justified, because frankly modern muscle cars are just regular traffic, I wouldn’t even look at them at a show. It’s like if I brought my G35 Coupe instead of my 84 Supra,
I honestly do not blame them for doing this in a sense. You have no idea the amount of times a car meet got shut down because of this behavior. Like I know its like elementary school type of vibe, but if you are going to act like a child then get ready to be treated like one 🤷🏽. Thats my take. Ofc its not just muscle cars but the majority in this city has been muscle cars from what I’ve seen and from what I’ve heard. I think event hosts are just getting tired of this same shit happening over and over again.
So ctsv's aren't banned
Lmao Mustang with Don't tread on me
just a comment on the windows not going all the way down, it''s usually less a case of passenger safety and more a case of rear doors often having a wheelwell making fully lowering the windows impossible. (can't say this is always the case, but it is often the reason)
when you can just go buy a muscle car at the corporate store it is not longer a hobby, it is like bringing McDonalds to a cook out
the larger the group the more organization and rules needed; I'm thinking group rides vs 2 motorcycles, less likely to make dumb decisions
I think you missed an opportunity to upload a/the roman report on april 1st, in full roman senator clothes, talking about a meeting of horseless, self propelling carriages in old latin. ... with translated subtitles for me please.
All attendees should have to register with driver's license and VIN. If you get caught doing burnouts, you and your car get banned. Both the VIN and the license can be easily scanned and automatically registered so it shouldn't be too terrible logistically
Funny thing is, about a month ago I had a guy walk almost 100 feet to me and say, thank you for driving a real car down here on main Street in Huntington Beach when 2 cheese balls in straight piped mustangs were acting like idiots :/ I actually laughed
love that Gary Numan jingle lol
You need actual registration. You go online, fill out a form with your name, address, DL number, license plate, make/model/year/color etc. Invite is then emailed to you with a QR code. You show up, have your code scanned and then you go about enjoying the meet. If you do something dumb, all they need to do is get a recording of it and ban you from future events. If needed it can go to the police who will then have all of your info and evidence of you doing it. If they can't behave, they have to be punished.
I like the concept, an RCR style version of automotive news.
Bans have been a regular thing here since at least 1998 when illegal street racing on Rankin Rd (a tradition that went back to the 70's) ended with 3 people dead and 4 or 5 more severely injured back in 1998, and this caught the attention of literally everybody in town.. In response HPD and Harris County Sheriff's Dept began their own tradition or cracking down hard on car gatherings sporadically making life a living hell for anybody hosting them over the years who got complaints or frequent compliance violations. Sometimes justified, sometimes complete bullshit. But as the problem children got more and more obnoxious over the years and the authorities got more and more authoritarian about it, hosts of gathers have either taken public events completely private (invite-only) so as not to have to deal with the cops and media, or permanently cancelled events altogether, while others like thos one have had to outright ban certain subcultures (you know the ones, everyone does...). Anytime there are noise and safety things this is the default outcome; people and car types get banned because the punishments lobbed at the gathering's establishment are way too severe and ridiculous to justify banning, or just not allowing car gatherings at all and losing venues is getting more and more frequent. All and all this is nothing, compared to the batshit tactics the cops were using to arrest anyone and everyone at car shows they possibly could. Look at the infamous mass arrest and vehicle impound from the K-Mart parking lot on Westheimer Rd in 2002 (google it!)
As a heads up......to be truly classified as a muscle car it must be a two door sport roofed version of the four door formal roofed model. If it don't fit into that it is something else.
As for the ban, this is what happens when the many are too afraid to make few follow the rules. It's ok to hold people to a common level. Participation awards are the cancer of a society. If someone is acting out of spec it is ok to slightly adjust those individuals.
Maybe the "Roman Roundup"? (Get it? 'Cause Mustangs?) Anyway, good piece, Roman! I support this new segment.
@5:08--2 tax cheats one shot.
Sorry, I meant Montana plates.
Been listening and watching for years keep it up
I drive an ecoboost mustang, that has been built for daily/drift stuff in Houston - and I don’t go to Coffee and Cars but I was upset knowing that I CANT go even if I wanted knowing I’m not one of the idiots that do the dumb stuff
That being said, I’m not TOTALLY against the decision
The one I attend. Lake Washington, almost got shut down due to a bunch of Audi A4 and BMW 3 series drivers trying to get attention. We technically can't ban cars from our location (Public park) I suggested we ban anything German that isn't a performance model (RS/S Audi's, Porsches, AMG Mercs, and M level BMWs.)
That and anything with Nissan VQ V6's. Those trumpets hearold trouble on the horizon.
Actually, when I drove a Charger, I wore a corduroy jacket
I think the ban will put a small dent in participation, but it might make people upset and when that happens who knows what they will do
I highly enjoyed this thank you.
Roman is hilarious.
The passage of time is so wild
The reoccurring example character names remind me of Lewis Grizzards’ writings.
I hope Tommy Fenstermacher will one day be regarded as a great American just like Weyman C. Wannamaker Jr.
"once the suspension was lifted"
THE ROMAN REPORT rolls off the tongue
“Modern mustang” definitely needs to be defined a bit more. Red Betty is 20yo. My 94 mustang is 30yo. ….that’s a classic mustang, right? It’s an SN95. Red Betty is a 21st century SN95. I only went to one cars and coffee, in Dallas. It was over a decade ago, as Im not a morning person, and the only stupid stuff people did was due to peer pressure. There were signs telling you what not to do as you left, but there would be a crowd of people cheering you on. It was pretty intense. But there were also several officers parked nearby, and they would pull over each and every person “exhibiting speed.” I was too afraid to even accelerate over 2000 RPMs out of fear that the police would pull me over simply due to the sound. I disappointed everyone there that was watching. I disappointed myself and my car. But modern me wonders if they were only cheering people on BECAUSE they wanted them to get caught.
I'd consider it 05+ when they went to the retro design and the other two followed suit
The accepted delineation is anything 25 years old or older is "classic", and everything newer is "modern" (that's the way car shows tend to be split up). I'd have to argue though that anything made from 2005 and newer is "modern" for American muscle cars.
Tommy always up to his shenanigans