Snowrunner Zikz 612H is back for Rematch after improvements
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- Zikz 612H Mastodon has recieved some updates in final PTS and Now it's performance is improved from intial release. It's time to get a rematch against Zikz 605R to find out if we've new King of Snowrunner.
#SD1ONE #Snowrunner #OffroadGames
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Contents of video
00:00 - Intro
00:30 - New Addon support
00:57 - Performance Improvements
01:40 - Battle for the Title
05:25 - Conclusion
06:32 - Some of my complaints - Ігри
As of Now these changes are added in PTS but since It's the final PTS, so the chances of any major changes are slim, Still If there're any major changes at final release, I'll mention them in this pinned comment.
- All improvements from Zikz 612H Mastodon from PTS are carried over to final Phase 10 release.
Agreed. MudRunner's E-7310 is the true King. 💪🫅
What's a PTS
@@linux_doggo PTS means Public Test Server.
(Every game goes through play testing. For Snowrunner they use an online server available to the public)
@@hermanjohnson9180 oh interesting, never knew that was a thing
My biggest problem with the 612H is, that I often got extreme suspension damage even from small rocks.
let's wait for the release... hopefully they'll fix that too... Although it does have that repair kit and roof rack with decent repair points
is it still the same? otherwise I would buy it...
They also added the "Ramped Towing Platform" for the 612H
Ah..yah..forgot about that one..
I feel that the Snowrunner only fails in the little details, like the addons, which in the Snowrunner are universal regardless of the origin of the vehicle.
Mudrunner seems to have received more affection in this regard.
The good thing is that this is a very simple thing to solve for the devs and I hope from the bottom of my heart that they can create unique addons for the vehicle's nationality (Russian vehicles have Russian addons, Americans have Americans, etc).
TBH...It's been 3 years but devs still focus on new content rathar than improving or updating old trucks...It seems unlikely they'll give it better detailed addons but I would love to be proven wrong.
Its maybe because the regions share the same character. If you think about it, what if Bob made them himself, huh? 😃😆
What's kind of dumb is they made two seperate light and heavy cranes which I imagine are harder to model than completely flat beds. The fuel tank itself could stay red and white for American vehicles, but how hard is it to make a round structure similar to MR's orange Russian fuel tank. Heck I might actually pay a couple dollars for the russian oval cisterns because they looked so good. It would certainly add a little variety and make the game less bland in terms of the fine details. It's sad that the only way they'd actually get around to that is if it ends up being a paid dlc
@@Gracefulwarrior2124 exactly man, they spend their time moddeling that crane while it could've been used to improve other addons and this new crane might not even be useful outside season 10 missions
@@SD1ONE Almost everything we do ik SR directly relates to addons. Youd just think they'd be high priority
Thank you for this review on the Mastodon with improvements it's still currently my favorite vehicle and makes me feel so much better about it seeing they did improve it.
Let's not forget the absolute NIGHTMARE we all went through just getting the 605r 😂 I finally got it yesterday after years of giving up
Same bro, got mine yesterday too for a second time, after deleting my acc by accident a year ago. They really don't want us to get it right?😂
I was wondering when you would do the update comparison!!
Niiiiiiiiiiiiice 😮😮😮
Despite I do not like 612 as much as 605 (its overhang, sound, ...), I must agree that the number of addons, and now also the possibility of LOGS, makes it really good choice. I would although welcome one new meta update, and that would be 605 getting at least also the long logs, because I feel like it would suit it really, really well
but every addon on this truck means other trucks would be irrelevant... people would only use one truck for all tasks...it would make game boring
I like how the person said “that’s why it’s the goat the goat!”😂 10:40
yeah...I watched that part 5-6 times myself while editing...He said it with too much...emotion..
I played MR when it came, and I loved it. Got SR when it came and I wanted these nostalgia trucks, and now that they are here. Im happy, almost bought the 612 as I saw it, but it doesnt have its fuel tank. I want the MR fuel tank on it...
I've really been enjoying my time with it, I'm actually daisy chaining my 612 and 605 together on some expeditions
Yep. Spintires/Mudrrunner have a special place in our hearts. That game was developed with a special touch on reality, I stoped snowrunner to go back to play mud runner despite it's lack of gameplay, the real feel of the game is magical
I went back to spintires... It crashes every few minutes or so still I played it because it feels so good...MR is also good but I played it too much already
@@SD1ONE my spintires still runs smooth, I have the steam version.
@@jjptech I don't know man...Sometimes It don't crash but some time when I enter or leave water area...it just crashes...the worst part it that it doesn't save like MR & SR every few minutes...It only saves when you either quit the game or go to main menu...so basically every time it crashes I lose my progess of that session.
Zikz not king
you are the true king of snowrunner
well thanks I guess...doing what I like doing
Great video. Wow. And new..!!
I think it would be cool if we could see the most popular semi truck mods available for all platforms
These videos and their editing only keep getting better
If only translation would be better sometimes.
@@lukasbarlik1721 yeah, lots of mistakes can be present
Is still play Mudrunner especially for trucks like E-7310 and E-7429 wich sadly hasn't found it's way into Snowrunner yet. But thanks for the comparision of new 612H, will maybe help me a lot in Sr with choosing what truck to take
great job👍👍
little details are important, i hope devs be more attentive
I lost hope...its been 3 years and still we dont have any balance chages for old trucks...only upgrades they provided for base game trucks like twinsteer, gmc, transtar are via anothr paid option i.e year pass 1...mastodon has addons that straight up not look right yet they released it anyway
@@SD1ONE my hope is in the next game, sad...
I was on a logging crew am we used end dump trucks an i had the same cat truck that thin is so under power an the way it handles. Plus you can switch from 2 4 or open six wheel drive. Was still good in the deep mud during the rain but limited
These two are like Tayga 6436 and 6455B now.
I will always choose 605R if crane or chained tires aren't needed at the moment.
Also 605R has less annoying engine sound, has more durable tires, more stable and doesn't have front overhang. It's just overall more comfortable vehicle to drive.
more stable I don't know...Zikz 612H is as stable if not more but yes other reasons are valid, 605R is more agile and less noisy...
@@SD1ONEthe choice of addons hurts it though :(
Awesome also quick question what music did you use in the phase 7 video the last part
That In-game music for phase 7 extracted from game files
@@SD1ONE i meant the other music
Finally, more logging options. Very good, I felt like it was decent before but now its an excellent truck. Also, whats the map you use for testing? It looks very good and cool I wanna try it.
It's a private map by a friend...We use it for testing stuff and he has no plan to release it...sorry.
I just added medium log trailer and trailer support for Zik masta. little tweaks I know from modding. Same for Darry Special.
Once again, a great video mate, but I dont think it takes the King title cause of the adons. In fact I preffered the Mudrunner version, as its primary use was a heavy extranction vehicle, This truck was made to be OP and it should be, God i remember in MR he pulled me out of the shit that no other truck could.
The tires are also heavier now on the 612H which seems to make a huge difference in grip.
couldn't agree more.
E-7310:THE KING RETURN,BRO
D-537:why
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Another truck:oh noes(no)why
🎉🎉🎉
About addons for mAz 612H - I've been digging the files out a bit and actually they had done a very sloppy job. I don't know if it is fixed in PTS, but if you check closely all the addons, their width is reused from 605. The frame of 612H is wider, but textures of, for example, short log frame or repair cabin bases (or even saddle) is narrower... It's a shame that they do not retain uniqueness of original trucks' addons.
Whats more shameful is that it's paid DLC.
New season came I didnt see the changes of tyres in patchnotes. Is it canceled?
I use the 612H, Azov, Pacific P16, Reznati, and sometimes the Yar or Khan Marshall
Think the reason their hesitant to make the 612 op is because its a 5 dollar purchase in contrast to doing a whole operation spanning multiple maps in the hardest region hands down. Not to say the 612 is bad or anything as it still has great performance but it is still overshadowed by the 605.
Great stuff, 4 me is The Best comparasion 🎉😊
Since is a pay dlc ( zikz 605r is too a pay dlc but in a form of map /season) they should add more atention, more quality, and not better or The Best truck, but more more balanced truck, i don't want a go for all truck, IT would become boring at The end, but a very powerfull truck suited for 2 or 3 Jobs... Like in real life... 🎉
Devs should bring that foldable long logs adon from mudruner or spintires... This truck have plenty Room for some special, big adon.. Something uniq adon... Or add a powerfull rescue crane 🎉
But even an update is still good 😅😊
yeah man... let's hope they add something to it later....seems unlikely though
Is the new improved zikz612h available to use in other maps or only in the pts.
Did you know? Rng3r worked on the modeling part of Mastodon truck and for the first time, a work of him was officially included in a game.
yes i know and from what I read on discord it looks like he's not fully satisfied by mastodon and I can understand because tbh compared to his mods mastodon is not upto his standards
@@SD1ONE HX will be :)
I'm happy for the slight improvements of the 612H for sure, but I'll still stick to mods though. IF they brought MR style unique addons...then I'd actually use the vanilla. But the generic addons prevent me from taking several of the Russian trucks seriously. So i use modded trucks to at least beef up their capabilities, maybe add a few more addons like a 3-slot bed+crane as several definitely have the room for, or some custom addons that actually provide uniqueness to the truck. Ina way, i like that majority of the trucks share addons, that way I easily try out trucks extensively, but to that, it also hurts the realism of trucks being designed for specific tasks or general purposes...
SD1ONE don’t you usually watermark your videos? Like in the corner?
I'll look into this thanks for mentioning
😮😮😮❤❤
Developer point of view, quote from wiki:
"SnowRunner is based on the same physics engine developed by Pavel Zagrebelnyy, as MudRunner. During development of SnowRunner, Zagrebelnyy was mainly involved as a consultant, rather than deciding on the gameplay."
Development team of SN dit great job, they missed details, I hope they've this in pipeline release til 12th DLC. From this that I saw they adding more to engine across dlc releases.
It's good business practice. Add some value that you can sell, with some minor overall improvements.
Could be nice to have this at start but..
Modern software, games etc ale awful costly, and they need to chose what is more important for them.
I think Pavel has better vision on this game series than current dev team atleast in my opinion. TBH I don't like season pass update system, it makes money sure but It limits the game so much IMO.
@@SD1ONE fully agree with this
Can you review kenworth 963 ?
With the wheel lock situation on the 612H, the advanced special gearbox is kinda broken. If you install the fine-tune gearbox the 612H drives and acts as it should. 100 times better, no more wheel lock and the high gear actually works.
🤘😬🤘
I use fine-tune this his time.... Last time I use advanced Special and it was locking like crazy
i really wish saber sacrificed the time it takes to make one season just to makes changes like in the "Things mudrunner did better then snowrunner" video. i feel like it would really help the game out personally im happy a classic from mudrunner was brought back
Yeah man, It's good they brought back E-7310 but I still feel that atleast some trucks should get their own addons because regular addons look very wrong on them...Mastodon looks like a modded vehicle with low sadle trailers and those blue beds which is surprising because it's a paid new vehicle and new vehicles get this treatement then I have no hope that older vehicles ever get better addons....I wish they fix this game before moving on to next game in series because otherwise, next game would also get same treatement.
@@SD1ONE im especially happy that they are making a mac release i used to play on windows but i switched so ready to be back
@@G0dzilla971 Nice, I hope mac version don't get as buggy as other platforms.
Because of it's additional length, there's more ad on's available than there is for the 605. Because of it additional width. It's wider than the 73210. Being a profesional OTR with a couple of million miles using a fifth wheel. The wideness of the Mastadon has caused me to change from the 73210 which I've utilized for over 1,000 hours. I play the entire game and all of it's region's using only a Yar and now two Mastadon. One with a low and one with a high fifth wheel. And though it's a bit slower using only a 3 speed. Nothing ever fall's off, which make the trip faster, when I don't have to put stuff back off; Thus for me, it's faster.
Pulling a trailer with a fifth wheel, is considerably more stable than draging a trailer. The additonal from axle a trailer need's when being dragged. Cause stability issue's. Compared to when the only axles are on the back of the truck and the back of the trailer. The front of the trailer is forced to twist only when the back of the truck twist. Not independently as it does having it's own front axle. Not to mention, there's NO issue if and when one has to back up.
It's a bit better of an off-roader, but the issue is still that nose and the low suspension. Until that is addressed, even though it can handle more addons, it will get hung up on almost all terrain that the 605 can lumber over. Leaving the 605 clearly in the lead, for me.
Can you do awd vs diff lock?
I just started playing again after 2 years. I only got to update 3, but had up to update 4. So I ended up buying the 612h(4 bucks) to help me get the 605 lol. Almost opened tunnel! I love the game. But. I would not mind a new (insert title) Runner.
Did they fix the weird gear ratios for the Mastodons advanced special gearbox?
Nope...I used finetune in the video...Lets hope they fix it in final release
Have you tried the modded versions of the 605R yet because those raise the bar even further than the vanilla model by a long shot
with mods even transtar can beat these trucks...so mods are out of question when in vanilla truck comparisions.
I hear the 612 should be using the fine tuned option instead of advanced special. I have yet to test this. I wonder if you have?
Yes I use fine-tune in my tests this time....other gearboxes have really slow high gear
Have the changes to the 612H been applied already? Or when season 10 comes out?
Not yet, It'll be active with new season release
What about the Kenworth 963? I would like a review about it.
I would wait for that truck as I heard it'll get it's own bed or something but so far that truck also looking like "Do it All" type vehicle. It can attach almost every addon possible...Does struggle in steep climbs with load.
@@SD1ONE The Pacific P12 is closest in similarity, and it too struggles with loads, even with the best engines
Yes finally i have reason to stay on mudrunners
Active suspension is needed! And no trailers with logs hurts… common. I’m still goin yo use SE version :)
Nothing more is needed..they already give it more than enough
@@SD1ONE same situation as azov7. There is nothing wrong and unrealistic about having good ground clearance. Plus trailers on medium log is a must. Who is wasting his time to drive one set of logs… because of that, I think Kenworth will be a logging go to truck. Trailers are mandatory. Or I will use mastodon with low saddle with modded trailer for logs.
But was there any change in the power, or just the wheels ? And also, i guess they left the 605r's wheels with a width of the old (original) mudrunner tires, so i fits their traction, and be TALL for hauling low to the ground trailers!
605R wheels are almost double the width they should be... because SR terrain is filled with rocks and crazy obstacles so I think they have to artificially enhance some trucks like no axle collision on some trucks, unrealistic tyre width in coding
@@SD1ONE I missed to ask, as i didnt checked earlier. Are the new addons for the zikz possible to come to the game or confirmed to come (from the pts) ?
Zikz 612H has a chained tires which is another pro point.
I don't think I would use chained... Default tires are so good... even in snow maps most part is snow than ice and Default tires just crushes snow
do you think you could do a rematch of the tayga vs the ank, but this time, you use the ank civil version
tayga is better not only in performance but the balance also...ANK civilian is same as ANK but tractor variant
Pour moi c'est le Z2 G6 UNICORN qui est le meilleur véhicule avec sa capacité de rouler sous l'eau sans que sont moteur se noye, une grande puissance du moteur même si il ne va pas très vite, même si c'est un mod console (je ne le sais pas si il a ce mod sur PC ou d'autre plateforme).
I am currently completing Amur. And there 612 is no longer behaving as confidently as 605. 605 is much more agile and passable in relation to Cupid. Alas, 612 just gets stuck in a lot of places. :(
My Biggest complaint is the large over hang that gets stuck in a lot of places which can be really annoying 😢
now it can unstuck easily because of better tire coding
@@SD1ONE wow awesome 🤩
Does it's now unflippable like the 605R or still tippy? What's the stats of the wheel? It can support so many add-ons it's so nice!! Here's our new best Long logs hauler!!!
It should be more stable because they added heavy tires like 605R
@@SD1ONE this will make a huge difference then. The weight of each had a lot of difference in KG.
The Engine sound in MR was soooo much better...
Who knows maybe we gonna have new king when Kenworth 963 comes out
I tested it but so far It's not at same level as Zikz 8x8s...
It seems to me that there is a new king in the snowrunner! - Kenworth 963 What do you think?
Nope....too heavy for climb sections, axle collsion model is also restricted...also not as good in mud as these two because of those ZHM tires....still a good truck nonetheless
@@SD1ONE But more load-bearing
There is/was a mod version(Maz 543) of this before, right?
I would like such a competition Zikz 612H vs Zikz 605R vs K3K7-286(KZKT-7428)
Although I know that it is one of the mods, the fight would not be fair play.
TBH...605R is even more OP than some mods...
Спасибо за интересное видео! я всё думаю покупать этот мод (в стим) или непокупать, но мне кажеться (или я ошибаюсь?) что кран 0:49 станет доступен только купив этот мод? бо сколько не скачивал (в меню игры) модов с ним, он так у меня и непоявился (( а так мне по внешнему виду (и по модулям) нравиться мод HURRICANE PACK особенно аэродромная пожарная машина АА-60 на шасси этого грузовика (в реальности удалось с АА-60 познакомится близко, много нервов (у начальства) потратил на текущую трансмиссию )
I use google translate so sorry if I misunderstood your comment but I think your concern is that crane at 0:49 is part of this truck or not...That crane actually is part of upcomming Phase 10 which is as of now only available in PTS and if you have year pass 3, You'll get it for free when it release
@@SD1ONE Thanks for the answer! I prefer to overpay but buy only what you are interested in and all 9 seasons but in reality this truck is really the king, I remember how they accidentally dropped a concrete fence while reversing)) it’s really a saying about him that the poor eyesight of a rhinoceros is not his problem sorry for google translation
@@SD1ONE They're making you buy the bigger crane??
From the first race you did the 612H has a HUGE overhang so that’s why it didn’t win (Both 612H’s)
I still think they should always be painted in red... the hoz and the hammer.
If we would only look at the performance of trucks (and not what addons they can use etc.) then the K-7M would probably be the king without having to fear any competetion, as pure performance wise not even the 605R can match the K-7M
yes but how many missions can you do with K7M, Antarctic or CAT 745C... they're more like giants which are beyond the control of kings 😁
Well yes,for now on the Pts the 612h is the king but its a paid dlc and you can have the 605r with the year 1pass but those things dosen't really matter for the king name
Technically 605R is also paid content because you have to buy year passes seperate of the main game....but I get what you mean.
@@SD1ONEhow do year passes work?😅
Old spintires and mudrunner player here. What happen in snowrunner? Feel so bad...
Yup... only old players can feel it man....I don't expect new players who never played those games to feel bad and it's not their fault... they never get tried those games at right time and now it's little too late
For me its Tatra 813 with its wacky suspension.
Wdym after the changes? He was already King since he came out because of the addons
They still need to fix high gear in the 612
The Mastodon's large nose and lower ground clearance is such a burden. Been using both trucks in Amur and the 612 cannot handle the ice as well as the 605 can. I feel like the 605 is damn near invincible whereas I send the 612 out with trepidation sometimes.
now it can...nose is less of issue now because tires help it going forward and get unstuck quicker than before
@@SD1ONE There are some major improvements, but it still struggles in some areas where the 605 doesn't. Like ice and deep snow and areas with large rocks. However I'm still using both to clear Amur and that region is going to grind most trucks into pulp anyways.
@@Kfowlkes09 605R is better offroader...there's no doubt about it but now the difference between performance is not as much as before still It's upto you which you consider top dog...for me I think 612H more OP also we have to consider that 612H can end up in your garage right after you paid for it.
Instead of tire coding, they should just add its original two times wider and a little bit shorter wheels from mudrunner, then this coding will have a point! And also, were there other trucks in this game ? XD
yes exactly...if they went with original tires they won't have to fake the tire width
@@SD1ONE Do you think they did any coding changes to the other types of wheels also and to the engine horsepower ?
I jumped in on Snowrunner 2 years ago. I think its an awesome foundation that lacks proper gameplay and mission structure. Its been a big shame to also watch a lot of videos comparing it to the previous titles and how much snowrunner strips back from that great foundation from its predecessors. So much more function and attention to detail, more consistent physics, and vehicles parts were more authentic. From what I hear its because the original people who made the foundation are no longer working on the game. So theres no passion and its just people using it as a platform to make low effort content to monetize off of. Not to say that there isnt any value in the content they've made for it. Just that it could be so so so much better in both directions, In making better gameplay, and better authenticity, more in line with its predecessors.
I believe the actual devs on ground level might want to do good things but this season pass structure is not allowing them to do anything...4 major updates in 1 year each with its own deadlines...no wonder they can't improve old content..they barely have time to fix new content
@@SD1ONE I agree. I just wish they'd do more for having the missions you do in these DLCs have more noticeable effects on the area rather than just raising garages and factories. Reducing flooding and fixing impassable barriers should be the goal of the region, and is for some, but 90% of the areas stay dilapidated and inaccessible.
I don't like trucks with the long overhang design.
They look absolutely awesome but practical mostly for cities and not offroad because I find myself getting stuck in ditches or mud I didn't even knew existed at some places 😂😂😂
yes but when a truck has tires with that coding...it doesn't matter much..also that repair kit comes pre-installed so you've option to repair that damage.
I still love the old king
You mean the MR one...MR one is actually a king like truck...SR version is kind of like king with conditions and stuff.
The 612H is supposed to be an improvement over the 605R. So why is it still worse??
No matter what the 612 will always be the king to me
E-7310 is true king for me...I meant the truck from MR and Spintires.
@@SD1ONE yeah, as someone who's beaten mr i absolutely loved the e7310, things an absolute beast
Next time instead of vehicles they must focus on different truck addons and trailer configs. Its way to bland without mods.
Also more logging stuff needs to happen.
we still to this day have no short logs trailer in game and yet the missions demand x6 short logs and stuff
King is still king .
le prefere c est de loin le 612H , plus de options, le 605R est limité a un seul jeux de pneus!
Всё по факту
The question now will be..... Wich one will be the king, when the big red kenworth is released???
red kenny has no chance against them but let's see
@@SD1ONE why? It got one of the biggest and better tires (MSH 2), and also the trailer+crane+bed combo, if the engine have enough power, the massive fuel tank will take you anywhere
MSH2 are not better than ZHM....Combos are good but Kenny really struggles in climbs... Kenny is also more fuel hungry and zikz with all its racks can easily outlast it ..but it's still PTS let's wait and see although I don't think it would change much in the final release as PTS itself is in final stage.
@@SD1ONE you Will do a versus With the final versions?
of-course I'll do but if it fails to keep up then I'll compare it with next best
Is just me or it got uglier? E-7310 was handsome and wide AF. Zikz 612H is narrower and taller, like it has been put into a press from the side. Especially noticeable here 8:05 when scenes change.
you know I felt it too...but I can let it go because of copyright stuff but lack of proper addons is just lack of passion IMO
605r is the best truck
ZIKZ mod for SR is so much better than paid DLC
It even drives better TBH.
Just add a minicrane in 605, that's all he needs.
The problem is that it is too easily accessible.
On top of that, it can fit almost every addon and trailer available in game. The 605R was better implemented..It can't have all addons also It harder to unlock.
@@SD1ONEexactly
Not for anything, if the devs didn't have to cater to the console constraints, SR would be SO much better as a PC only game... the trucks could be so much better than what we get, mainly because of the whole console constraint problem.
hmm... that's interesting take but can you prove it.... if consoles are real problem
Zikz 612h compared to E-7310 from mudrunner looks like after summer holiday in these rotten west countries 😅
Why my comment dissapeared?
maybe youtube auto flagged it or something..what was it about
@@SD1ONE By the way, your reply on my comment dissapeared too. Summed, i my two comments (original and my reply) wrote that looks like 605 has wider tire physics model than visible one, 612 has funky narrow wheels, some mr which I should not name (I think this was reason, imho), did excellent job with modeling half axle chassis withe every moving part even steering ones. If I remember good, that was all
Just buff it beyond ridiclousness, give it to us already.
Best course of action would be imo is to not make it a DLC, refund everyone, and put the truck somewhere in basegame Russia, perhaps give it its own small and painful map. And ofcourse, make the truck crazy powerful. And maybe make it look actually good? Those wheels are pitiful.
You know if they went with wider wheels they won't have to add artificial width through coding.
constantly same typo, its saddle not sadle
man... it's a habit...I'll keep it mind next time
I bought a dlc car now I feel like I cheated and it ruined the game for me.
Voron AE is king
Overral i still think zizk 605R is still king beacuse he is free and other pluses that is 605 R better
And when is rhe truck not good at offroad all these stuff is unusablle
technically 605R is part of year pass 1 which is paid content... so it's not free but yes it's relatively cheap when you consider the content you get for your money
Мне не очень нравится что разработчики делают из 612Н настоящую универсальную машину. обычные грузовики 6х6 начинают терять свой смысл.....
warning: google translate is used....yes 612H dont even need that many addons...605R was better implemented....
You can still use all trucks. Now with Level 30 and lots of money , I have most of them in the garage. Including US trucks with the switchable features.
But for new players, it is maybe not the best just to take the 612 .. :-/