Modesty and Catholicism | The Truth About Modesty
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- The issue of modesty in Christian circles so often focuses on legalistic questions as if the virtue itself were reducible to the length of one's skirt. In reality, modesty is a state of heart and requires a sensitivity to culture and environment. In order to have a truly Catholic understanding of modesty, we must get to the heart of the issue.
---
Ask Christopher West is a weekly podcast in which Theology of the Body Institute President Christopher West and his beloved wife Wendy share their humor and wisdom, answering questions about marriage, sexuality, relationships, life, and the Catholic faith, all in light of John Paul II’s beautiful teachings on the Theology of the Body.
Listen to the Full Episode here! askchristopher...
---
Want to support the Theology of the Body Institute? Become a Patron: community.theo...
---
Find Christopher West on social media!
Facebook: / cwestofficial
Instagram: / cwestofficial
Discover the Theology of the Body Institute: www.tobinstitut...
Quotes on Modesty
“You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment. … When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity , nor provoked by injury , but out of foolish vanity and pride.” -Saint John Chrysostom, Doctor of the Church, (347-407 AD)
“After the year 1900, toward the middle of the 20th century, the people of that time will become unrecognizable…..People’s appearances will change, and it will be impossible to distinguish men from women due to their shamelessness in dress and style of hair.” -Prophecy of Saint Nilus, (died c. 430)
“Wars are a punishment from God for sin. … Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend Our Lord very much. … More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason.” -Our Blessed Lady at Fatima in 1917 to Blessed Jacinta Marto
“From this point of view one cannot sufficiently deplore the blindness of so many women of every age and condition; made foolish by desire to please, they do not see to what a degree the in decency of their clothing shocks every honest man, and offends God. Most of them would formerly have blushed for those toilettes as for a grave fault against Christian modesty; now it does not suffice for them to exhibit them on the public thoroughfares; they do not fear to cross the threshold of the churches, to assist at the Holy sacrifice of the Mass, and even to bear the seducing food of shameful passions to the Eucharistic Table where one receives the heavenly Author of purity. And We speak not of those exotic and barbarous dances recently imported into fashionable circles, one more shocking than the other; one cannot imagine anything more suitable for banishing all the remains of modesty.” -Pope Benedict XV, Sacra Propediem, January 6, 1921
“A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.” -Pope Pius XI, September 24, 1928
“…Numbers of believing and pious women…in accepting to follow certain bold fashions, break down, by their example, the resistance of many other women to such fashions, which may become for them the cause of spiritual ruin. As long as these provocative styles remain identified with women of doubtful virtue, good women do not dare to follow them; but once these styles have been accepted by women of good reputation, decent women soon follow their example, and are carried along by the tide into possible disaster.” -Pope Pius XII, May 22, 1941
“O Christian mothers, if only you knew the future of distress and peril, of shame ill-restrained, that you prepare for your sons and daughters in imprudently accustoming them to live hardly clothed and in making them lose the sense of modesty, you should be ashamed of yourselves and of the harm done the little ones whom heaven entrusted to your care, to be reared in Christian dignity and culture.” -Pope Pius XII, July 17, 1954
“Now many girls do not see anything wrong with following certain shameless styles (fashions) like so many sheep. They would surely blush if they could only guess the impressions they make and the feelings they evoke (arouse) in those who see them.” -Pope Pius XII, July 17, 1954
” A special danger to morals is represented by public bathing at beaches, in pools and riverbanks…Mixed bathing between men and women which nearly always is a proximate occasion of sin and a scandal must be avoided.” -A Pastoral letter of His Emminence Enrique Cardinal Pla y Daniel, Archbishop of Toledo Spain issued this directive in 1959
“The wearing of men’s dress by women affects firstly the woman herself, by changing the feminine psychology proper to women; secondly it affects the woman as wife of her husband, by tending to vitiate relationships between the sexes; thirdly it affects the woman as mother of her children by harming her dignity in her children’s eyes.” -Giuseppe Cardinal Siri Genoa, June 12, 1960, Notification Concerning Men’s Dress Worn by Women
“Wherever women wear men’s dress, it is to be considered a factor in the long run tearing apart human order.” -Giuseppe Cardinal Siri Genoa, June 12, 1960, Notification Concerning Men’s Dress Worn by Women
“The consequences of such violations are not a new outline of man, but disorders, hurtful instability of all kinds, the frightening dryness of human souls, the shattering increase in the number of human castaways, driven long since out of people’s sight and mind to live out their decline in boredom, sadness and rejection. Aligned on the wrecking of the eternal norms are to be found the broken families, lives cut short before their time, hearths and homes gone cold, old people cast to one side, youngsters wilfully degenerate and - at the end of the line - souls in despair and taking their own lives. All of which human wreckage gives witness to the fact that the “line of God” does not give way, nor does it admit of any adaptation to the delirious dreams of the so-called philosophers!” -Giuseppe Cardinal Siri Genoa, June 12, 1960, Notification Concerning Men’s Dress Worn by Women
“Padre Pio wouldn’t tolerate low-necked dresses or short, tight skirts, and he forbade his spiritual daughters to wear transparent stockings. (nylons) Each year his severity increased. He stubbornly dismissed them from his confessional, even before they set foot inside, if he judged them to be improperly dressed…His brothers observed these drastic purges with uneasiness and…fasten(ed) a sign on the church door: ‘By Padre Pio’s explicit wish, women must enter his confessional wearing skirts at least eight inches below the knees. It is forbidden to borrow longer dresses in church and to wear them for the confessional.’ ” -Saint Padre Pio, (1887-1968), from the book “Prophet of the People” by Dorothy Gaudiose
Good quotes. I don't watch their videos very often, but this was a way one-sided take that straightaway went into charges of scrupulosity or uptightness. And focused almost exclusively on modesty as being a virtue of the heart. Yes, that is true but it should also moderate externals (what we wear), and how we speak among many other things (e.g. accessories, decorum - e.g. rubbernecking in Mass, respect of clergy, etc.).
Their take is surprising especially given Our Lady's warning about the times (1900-2000s) not just in her apparition in Fatima, but also in Quito (Our Lady of the Good Event) where she prophesied the times would be marked by widespread moral corruption, loss of innocence among children, loss of modesty among women (but also in general), and the corruption within the clergy.
It is also a matter of just walking into almost any parish nowadays on a Sunday. You will almost surely find some men wearing at least one of these items: shorts, t-shirts with designs, sandals, jeans, tennis shoes, etc. Or women wearing tight-fitting jeans, mini shorts, t-shirts, low-cut dresses exposing breasts, dresses that end way above the knees, or sportswear.
@@NaruIchiLuffy, Agreed
I think for church it's not a big sacrifice for me to wear a skirt at or below the knee. I ask myself how I want to present myself at the foot of the Cross. I love jeans but am also generally moving away from them because if you look at modern culture you can see how sexualized women and jeans are in many areas. I have a collection of skinny jeans and am no longer wearing them very often, and rather than replace them with less fitted jeans, I've been getting more skirts and dresses. I love how I feel in them, both more feminine & more comfortable. I'll always have my jeans but I'm enjoying this balance. I don't believe there is anything wrong with dressing in a particular way for Mass, but I do appreciate your points about time and culture. As a mom to an almost 12 year old, looking around, seeing many other girls her age baring their midriff for daily wear and also wearing the shortest shorts/tightest jeans they can find- I love that without having to say a word, my daughter sees my example and does the same and understands that her body is sacred space, not to be made into an object. I'm trying really hard to find that balance and avoid any tug of war with her growing independence.
Excellent answer. I attend the Latin Mass and a lot of women and girls were dresses or skirts (don't get me wrong, I don't spend my time looking at how others dress) I've no problem with jeans, but I do think we have to consider for example a young Priest, who after all is a man, and who is following the sometimes difficult road of celibacy.
"By no means are women to be allowed to uncover and exhibit any part of their bodies, lest both fall the men by being incited to look, and the women by attracting to themselves the eyes of men." - Clement of Alexandria (A.D 195), 2.246
"First, then, blessed sisters, take heed that you do not admit to your use flashy and sluttish garbs and clothing." - Tertullian (A.D 160-220), 4.22
"Let a woman wear a plain and becoming dress, but softer than what is suitable for a man. Yet, it should not be immodest or entirely steeped in luxury. And let the garments be suited to age, person, figure, natures, and pursuits." - Clement of Alexandria (A.D 195), 2.285
"Those who glory in their looks - not in their hearts - dress to please others" - Clement of Alexandria (A.D 195), 2.273
"But if any necessity arises, commanding the presence of married women, let them be well clothed - without by raiment, within by modesty." -
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 195) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.252
"Paul proclaims in a loud and lofty voice, "But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world [Galatians 6:14-18]”. And yet a virgin in the Church glories concerning her fleshly appearance and the beauty of her body! Paul adds, and says, "For they that are Christ's have crucified their flesh, with its faults and lusts." And she who professes to have renounced the lusts and vices of the flesh, is found in the midst of those very things which she has renounced! Virgin, you are taken, you are exposed, you boast one thing and do another. You sprinkle yourself with the stains of carnal concupiscence, although you are a candidate of purity and modesty." St. Cyprian (A.D. 250) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.5 pg.431
"You call yourself wealthy and rich; but Paul meets your riches, and with his own voice prescribes for the moderating of your dress and ornament within a just limit. "Let women," said he, "adorn themselves with shamefacedness and sobriety, not with broidered hair, nor gold, nor pearls, nor costly array, but as becomes women professing chastity, with a good conversation. [1 Timothy 2:9-10] " Also Peter consents to these same precepts, and says, "Let there be in the woman not the outward adorning of array, or gold, or apparel, but the adorning of the heart. [1 Peter 3:3-4]" ... For the rest, if you dress your hair sumptuously, and walk so as to draw attention in public, and attract the eyes of youth upon you, and draw the sighs of young men after you, nourish the lust of concupiscence, and inflame the fuel of sighs, so that, although you yourself perish not, yet you cause others to perish, and offer yourself, as it were, a sword or poison to the spectators; you cannot be excused on the pretense that you are chaste and modest in mind. Your shameful dress and immodest ornament accuse you; nor can you be counted now among Christ's maidens and virgins, since you live in such a manner as to make yourselves objects of desire." St. Cyprian (A.D. 250) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.5 pg.432
Entiendo lo de las culturas. Pero no se puede negar que la revolución sexual se metió con la moda, entonces no es tan inocente lo de la "cultura de cada tiempo". Y teniendo solo la modestia del corazón nos olvidamos que se debe reflejar en lo de afuera necesariamete
I was really impressed with this answer, especially the part about how modesty refers to the RESPECT and DIGNITY of BOTH SEXES being the main objective when dressing, and the difference in cultures. I also like the point about not taking responsibility for others' perceptions, and that the body itself is not responsible for the degradation others assign to it with lust. Too often in some religious circles, women are made to feel that their bodies CAUSE men to sin, like we are jezzebels for wearing slightly form-fitting clothing. The fact is, someone can lust after a woman in sweatpants if he struggles with lust. Likewise , women can struggle with lust and look at an attractive man with sinful thoughts regardless of how he is dressed, and ofcourse the struggle wirh same- sex attraction also exists (a whole other conversation). In any case, thank you for articulating this point so well. Bravo👏👍
When we confuse an objective principle with a subjective application we will inevitably misunderstand things and cause trouble and havoc: Genius!!! Thank you very much!!
Acts of Pope Pius XI , Volume 6, House of the Good Press, Paris, 1934, p. 351-356. Cardinal Sbarretti Sabine writes in the Instruction to Diocesan Ordinaries on Indecent Women’s Fashion by the Sacred Congregation of the Council, January 12, 1930 "Pope Pius XI condemned the idea that a sin such as wearing an immodest fashion is acceptable (i.e., not sinful) if it is customary at a given time and/or place. The principle of majority is no rule of conduct. (Many evil practices are widely accepted.)"
What about when you have people in your life who try to argue against your standard of modesty? I try to dress modest while also dressing in things which make me feel beautiful. Usually my focus is just on much if I like the outfit as if it is modest. I wear pants, skirts, or dresses depending on what the occasion calls for. I have mostly leaned away from shorts because many of them are too short and I don't feel great when wearing them.
My mom has said sometimes (when she sees that I am turning away from shorts or other things which she thinks are modest enough and I would rather not wear) that she thinks I am too concerned with modesty. She's more worried about me not looking frumpy (even though I generally still think I dress in ways that are flattering for my figure and I have friends who dress more modestly than I do).
How can we or should we respond to people who try to accuse us of dressing too modestly? How can we communicate with people who have different ideas about what modesty looks like? How do we respond when others are almost offended by the fact that we want to dress more covered than they think is necessary?
"I'm not comfortable wearing that" is always a strong argument.
I understand about cultures. But it cannot be denied that the sexual revolution messed with fashion, so the "culture of every time" is not so innocent. And having only the modesty of the heart we forget that it must be reflected on the outside necessarily. Although God looks at the intentions of our heart, we must be careful not to use that to dress ourselves lustfully.
I think you missed the point. Skirts are not necessarily more modest. Pants in themselves are not immodest. My husband asked me if I could wear my long maxi dresses more often because he thinks I look sexy in them. They are the most modest pieces of clothing I own and I dress very modestly!
What Chris was saying is don’t project old ideals onto modern day women. Yes, we need to be modest but not according to the 1600s! We have our own fashions and we need to dress fashionably modest.
@@melindaanne6036 I didn't miss the point. At no point did I say that you can't be modest and fashionable. What I am saying is that the argument of "the culture of each time" is dangerous since, I can say: as I have good intentions in my heart I use a bikini or a skinny jeans that is from my time because I wear something longer or less demonstrative is a thing of before. Anything goes as long as you have good intentions
@@melissacabrera9547 Yes, but we must remember not to be like the hypocrites Jesus warned about in Matthew 6!!
People friggin know when they are showcasing their sensuality for the public. Every woman knows what's and why she does certain thing to be more attractive because that us potent power handed to us in that form.
Seriously if males were attracted to paper bags women would wear them and say they just like brown..
I would still get hit on wearing a brown paper bag. Doesn’t matter what I wear. Im not going to change who I am. I’ve been assaulted in professional clothing and later asked “what were you wearing”. I might as well wear a paper bag. Save money.
What about men's modesty? :)
It's the same thing with intent. They have to watch what they wear and how they wear it. Is the shirt too tight? Are the shorts showing too much? Am i wearing this clothes for a specific kind of attention? Aside from clothes, modesty is also the way you present yourself. Are men being modest when they describe a women in an inappropriate manner? How about when they catcall them? What if they're completely covered up but are cheating on their wife or looking at porn? Men can be just as guilty of immodesty as women, but it's never really talked about because a lot of people don't realize just how deep modesty goes.
A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel, neither shall a man use woman's apparel: for he that doeth these things is abominable before God.
[Deuteronomy 22:5]
I'll be honest, i don't think God cares that i picked a pair of wranglers out of the men's section so I can fit my entire phone in my pocket for once
Shorts for women are annoyingly short, so i buy mens shorts as they are longer. However i wear skirts or dresses to attend Mass
If anyone would like a much more comprehensive dive into the Catholic virtue of modesty, I'd highly suggest looking for a playlist with several lectures on this virtue by Fr. Ripperger.
This!
Your words are like crack for my brain. Much needed. 👌🏽 thank you
Ladies ask your husbands and if your not married ask your Dad. If you dont have a dad ask your priest. Most important ask God. he has the final say.
Not too short, Not too low cut, Not too tight, Not too transparent ???
This is the most insightful discussion on this subject I have ever heard.
when we speak about lust here it's mostly coming from men, women are aware culturally about what arouse men, it could be a perfume , the sound of anklet when she walk, it could be the curviness of her body even when she wear covering clothes. to put it simple ... it's to wear cloths on a way that prevent lust on whatever culture.
OFC that's when she go out in public, but if it's with her partner ...she wears the best for him cause your partner is the only person you share such privacy with.
men don't like it when other men look at their partners or family members with lusty stares.
that's why Nuns wear like that
a good father teach his daughters about this from early ages.
I know this is old, but you are wrong about the head covering. It was anti cultural for Paul to say women had to cover their heads and men uncover. And he referred to the creation, making it for all time and all cultures. It was all about worship.
even i jesus time, both man and woman wore dresses,,..as long if it is in a modest way
Very good
What about women wearing YOGA PANTS?
Is that a cultural application?
I've seen them in church
I never understood why people say no yoga pants in certain places???? Is there something lustful about yoga pants?
@@carlswindelliv2701 they're very form-fitting. Whether or not that is "lustful" is up to the individual, of course. If the intention is being considered, you have to consider both the man's and the woman's.
@@carlswindelliv2701Are you serious?
ua-cam.com/video/sWKipaNH83E/v-deo.html
Quit the talking and the decorations what is prostitution is prostitution, and what is no is not.
One language
One clothing
One religion
Latin, robes, Christianity.
this made me giggle. i love it
Sounds more like the military.
Stupid in a man immodesty is not about clothing only in women, on men is different. Not really about the way a men dresses up.