I did a similar thing 3 years ago. What I do is is more step wise, I bend the trunk to the shape I want little by little, say every 2-4 weeks, I twist the turns tighter. This allows time for the wood to adjust and grow into the direction of the bends. No raffia needed. Sometimes the rafia is needed for more radical bends or older bonsai materials/different species, or as in the case here, a little "added insurance". If you only had a couple of seedlings, or bought this one, then there is more risk than say, if you have 50 to bend this season. If you do 100-2000 trees, well, you pretty much know the limits, but you may still snap one and kill a tree rarely. I've done a few hundred, no deaths "yet" haha. So I would suggest a tree or two, most bonsai keepers might err on the side of caution(use the rafia!). Those with a tray of 100 seedlings, well, you can afford to lose a few, so you can do more radical things. I wire earlier, at about the 8 month stage, late summer mid Fall. I just leave the needles on the trees. Wire around them as best you can. More needles= more growth. If I kill a few needles with the wiring, not issue. Needles can be removed whenever you chose. I'll remove the wire in the spring(or until it bites the bark good), wire again in some cases, or I bring out the zip ties and fold the shape into a more twisted tighter bends and smaller overall trunk space. Zip ties work like the twisting the wire every few weeks also, you can tighter the zip ties every few weeks also. Zip ties make wiring and unwiring a far easier process. Generally after 1-2x wiring like this, one or two zip ties, you have a crazy looking trunk. You can plant in the ground if you want the tree to get larger, or you can up pot and using thick wire to get some bite and swell the lower trunk(I often leave the initial 1-2 wirings on till I get that sunk in bite look). If you can try say 10-50 seedlings, try a few different methods and see what works best for you.
Using the Brexit method of hydroponics and CO2 at night, I get 1000 times the sugar content of normal JBP's and they are bigger and with almost black needles and ready for a bonsai pot and wire in only 12 weeks.The trunk is as big as a pinky finger. Perfect Bonsai material. 30 plus years in Bonsai and owned 2 Bonsai businesses. Now retired and only grow JPB's to line my deck and patio and have fun trying new things.
Growing JBP with hydroponics and supplemental Co2 is very interesting. I'm doing NFT and Dutch buckets right now but for food. I might try pines next year. Good idea!
Sure Dean! It had a bad year last season. Something happened with pines all around the northern hemisphere and some trees were hit harder, but there was some back budding and I'm expecting it to recover. I'll put it on an update video in June but I'll try and show it in my next video, on Friday (probably). Cheers!
Thank you so much! Yes, it is very interesting how this is going to look in 5 years for example. But the important part is practice the technique and get a feeling for the limits, in order to be able to create new shapes. Cheers!
Thanks for the video. This is exactly what I was looking for. I just purchase a black pine fairly similar to this one. Can I ask what you are using for soil?
Thank you Andre! Soon I'm going to make a video of how it is developed a year later. It's much different and much better! For soil I use 50% zeolite 2-5mm, 50% perlite and I add just a bit of organic aggricates (forest topsoil), not more than 5%. Sometimes just the inorganic components. Cheers!
Love your demonstration! one question i have is it safe to do the bending and repotting at the same time? I'm just curious as I'm always told you should not do major trim or bending with barerooting and repot. Also with it being a pine does it not need some original soil left or is it ok to do this because it's so young? I'm just trying to learn and I'd love to try this technique. Thanks
Thank you Scott! Exactly because it is a very young tree, you can abuse it more. The rules are there to keep you safe in dealing with bonsai trees but that doesn't mean that doing anything else will result in the tree's death. It's just more dangerous. But if you know what to do, when to do it, what kind of soil you are using and how to properly care for the tree after, it's relatively safe. Experience! I always say that a pine is always barerooted at least once in it's lifetime as a bonsai. If you want to produce a decent nebari, that is. Cheers!
Wire scarring is not an issue now, as I plan to thicken the tree at least 3 times as it is now. Raffia wrapping will keep tissue tearing at minimum as there are some bends more than 180 degrees. Keeps the trunk relatively intact until it heals.
Your welcome Litz! 2-3 year Olds should be much easier and usually don't require raffia. Just a 3mm aluminum wire and it sets wherever. Just keep on mind to support the outside of the bend with the wire. This is 4 year old, which can be a bit thicker many times and thus harder to bend, although this was just an exercise, a demonstration. Cheers!
You should have just cut the needles with scissors instead of pulling them. Needle base are the source of new buds and should not be damaged by pulling. Also, why do you have to put rafia on such a very soft and easy to bend young trunk? Now you've sealed the trunk and prevent it from back budding
Thank you for your comment. This sedling was raised for this bending project. I have hundreds of seedlings that are trained for low backbudding. This (and a few others) will become someting different. Plus, if in the future I decide to turn it into something else, I can always graft. I prefer grafting. This trunk is almost as thick as a finger, it needed raffia. Most of the twists are almost 180 deg (especially the first one), I could hear some tearing on the bark during the first bending. Plus, the raffia will slow down the thickening this year and I will get a small taper on the lower trunk. I didn't cover the trunk all the way down just for that reason. Cheers!
Thanks for the reply. It's just my opinion. I grow Japanese Black Pine from seeds for bonsai materials too. Currently, there's nearly 800 seedlings in my backyard, all 1 and 2 years old. Through experience, i know how important is a needle when there's plenty of them growing on the lower trunk. They will promote lower branches growths in the future. I was just a bit shocked when i saw you started plucking them with your hands. Anyways, i know that you know what you're doing. Good luck, and happy bonsaing
I cut the needle just above the base if I want budding, pull the needle if not like on a sacrifice, i have about 400 I am growing right now, if you bend them early you use smaller wire so it's also cheaper. Only thing I would have done on this one is to bend so that needle bunch is on the outside of the curve. I keep my JBP & JRP cuttings under grow lights for 3 extra months (it takes about 3 to grow from seed and then cuttings) or until they are really taking off, this helps them survive with the transition to outdoors.
That's great. But for this tree I went with something different. A bending exercise. Create something weird and different that does not require needle back budding. Not all pines have to be informal upright.
I did a similar thing 3 years ago. What I do is is more step wise, I bend the trunk to the shape I want little by little, say every 2-4 weeks, I twist the turns tighter. This allows time for the wood to adjust and grow into the direction of the bends. No raffia needed. Sometimes the rafia is needed for more radical bends or older bonsai materials/different species, or as in the case here, a little "added insurance". If you only had a couple of seedlings, or bought this one, then there is more risk than say, if you have 50 to bend this season. If you do 100-2000 trees, well, you pretty much know the limits, but you may still snap one and kill a tree rarely. I've done a few hundred, no deaths "yet" haha. So I would suggest a tree or two, most bonsai keepers might err on the side of caution(use the rafia!). Those with a tray of 100 seedlings, well, you can afford to lose a few, so you can do more radical things. I wire earlier, at about the 8 month stage, late summer mid Fall. I just leave the needles on the trees. Wire around them as best you can. More needles= more growth. If I kill a few needles with the wiring, not issue. Needles can be removed whenever you chose. I'll remove the wire in the spring(or until it bites the bark good), wire again in some cases, or I bring out the zip ties and fold the shape into a more twisted tighter bends and smaller overall trunk space. Zip ties work like the twisting the wire every few weeks also, you can tighter the zip ties every few weeks also. Zip ties make wiring and unwiring a far easier process. Generally after 1-2x wiring like this, one or two zip ties, you have a crazy looking trunk. You can plant in the ground if you want the tree to get larger, or you can up pot and using thick wire to get some bite and swell the lower trunk(I often leave the initial 1-2 wirings on till I get that sunk in bite look). If you can try say 10-50 seedlings, try a few different methods and see what works best for you.
Thank you for your comment! I'll keep these stuff in mind. Cheers!
Using the Brexit method of hydroponics and CO2 at night, I get 1000 times the sugar content of normal JBP's and they are bigger and with almost black needles and ready for a bonsai pot and wire in only 12 weeks.The trunk is as big as a pinky finger. Perfect Bonsai material. 30 plus years in Bonsai and owned 2 Bonsai businesses. Now retired and only grow JPB's to line my deck and patio and have fun trying new things.
Growing JBP with hydroponics and supplemental Co2 is very interesting. I'm doing NFT and Dutch buckets right now but for food. I might try pines next year. Good idea!
Hey! Can we see how this tree looks today?
Sure Dean! It had a bad year last season. Something happened with pines all around the northern hemisphere and some trees were hit harder, but there was some back budding and I'm expecting it to recover. I'll put it on an update video in June but I'll try and show it in my next video, on Friday (probably). Cheers!
Very interesting I am very curious how that will develop? As always your videos are extremely educational to the art of Bonsai.
Thank you so much! Yes, it is very interesting how this is going to look in 5 years for example. But the important part is practice the technique and get a feeling for the limits, in order to be able to create new shapes. Cheers!
Thank you !
Thanks for the video. This is exactly what I was looking for. I just purchase a black pine fairly similar to this one. Can I ask what you are using for soil?
Thank you Andre! Soon I'm going to make a video of how it is developed a year later. It's much different and much better! For soil I use 50% zeolite 2-5mm, 50% perlite and I add just a bit of organic aggricates (forest topsoil), not more than 5%. Sometimes just the inorganic components. Cheers!
Love your demonstration! one question i have is it safe to do the bending and repotting at the same time? I'm just curious as I'm always told you should not do major trim or bending with barerooting and repot. Also with it being a pine does it not need some original soil left or is it ok to do this because it's so young? I'm just trying to learn and I'd love to try this technique. Thanks
Thank you Scott! Exactly because it is a very young tree, you can abuse it more. The rules are there to keep you safe in dealing with bonsai trees but that doesn't mean that doing anything else will result in the tree's death. It's just more dangerous. But if you know what to do, when to do it, what kind of soil you are using and how to properly care for the tree after, it's relatively safe. Experience! I always say that a pine is always barerooted at least once in it's lifetime as a bonsai. If you want to produce a decent nebari, that is. Cheers!
I assume that you wrapped it first so you won't have scarring from the wire
Wire scarring is not an issue now, as I plan to thicken the tree at least 3 times as it is now. Raffia wrapping will keep tissue tearing at minimum as there are some bends more than 180 degrees. Keeps the trunk relatively intact until it heals.
Fantastic video, what you you use for your substrate? The white small gravel is zeolite or something else?
Thank you Mark! Yes, that is correct. 40% zeolite 2-5mm, 40% perlite 3-5mm and 20% organic forest topsoil that has mainly aggricates.
it is also my problem on how to bend my 2-3 yr old JBP...thanks for the idea
Your welcome Litz! 2-3 year Olds should be much easier and usually don't require raffia. Just a 3mm aluminum wire and it sets wherever. Just keep on mind to support the outside of the bend with the wire. This is 4 year old, which can be a bit thicker many times and thus harder to bend, although this was just an exercise, a demonstration. Cheers!
@@ArkefthosBonsai thank you
Εντάξει, τώρα ζήλεψα...πολύ ωραίο!
Το συνιστώ ανεπιφύλακτα!
good bonsai work 👍 greetings 🙏
Thank you mate!
You should have just cut the needles with scissors instead of pulling them. Needle base are the source of new buds and should not be damaged by pulling. Also, why do you have to put rafia on such a very soft and easy to bend young trunk? Now you've sealed the trunk and prevent it from back budding
Thank you for your comment. This sedling was raised for this bending project. I have hundreds of seedlings that are trained for low backbudding. This (and a few others) will become someting different. Plus, if in the future I decide to turn it into something else, I can always graft. I prefer grafting. This trunk is almost as thick as a finger, it needed raffia. Most of the twists are almost 180 deg (especially the first one), I could hear some tearing on the bark during the first bending. Plus, the raffia will slow down the thickening this year and I will get a small taper on the lower trunk. I didn't cover the trunk all the way down just for that reason. Cheers!
Thanks for the reply. It's just my opinion. I grow Japanese Black Pine from seeds for bonsai materials too. Currently, there's nearly 800 seedlings in my backyard, all 1 and 2 years old. Through experience, i know how important is a needle when there's plenty of them growing on the lower trunk. They will promote lower branches growths in the future. I was just a bit shocked when i saw you started plucking them with your hands. Anyways, i know that you know what you're doing. Good luck, and happy bonsaing
@@brothersaisworkshop6461 nice! Keep up the good work!
I cut the needle just above the base if I want budding, pull the needle if not like on a sacrifice, i have about 400 I am growing right now, if you bend them early you use smaller wire so it's also cheaper. Only thing I would have done on this one is to bend so that needle bunch is on the outside of the curve. I keep my JBP & JRP cuttings under grow lights for 3 extra months (it takes about 3 to grow from seed and then cuttings) or until they are really taking off, this helps them survive with the transition to outdoors.
That's great. But for this tree I went with something different. A bending exercise. Create something weird and different that does not require needle back budding. Not all pines have to be informal upright.