Allen Parr's Concerns about Seventh Day Adventists
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- This is one of several clips I will be uploading from a big video I did with Allen Parr evaluating a few different religious groups in light of biblical Christianity. Subscribe to my channel to get notified when the other videos in this series go up.
Here is Allen Parr's channel, I recommend you check it out. / thebeatagp
Allen's videos on SDA...
Allen's deep dive on the SDA. • I was WRONG, WRONG, WR...
His video on responding to SDA teaching on the sabbath. • Seventh-Day Adventism ...
My website. Tons of free, searchable content helping you learn to think biblically about everything. BibleThinker.org
SDA people just strike me as people who want to take Christianity seriously
Wrong choice of words. Christianity should be taken seriously. I think you mean too legalistic like the Pharisees. If that’s the case, then yes, I agree.
@@requirementsrequired4384 If you were married, try and imagine, and you chose to be faithful to your spouse...would that be "legalism"? Or would it be a demonstration of your love? Sorry for the use of reason, logic and common sense. It's new to you, I know.
@@williamstroud1455 you clearly don't understand what I was saying. Take a moment and think about it.
For over 40 years I have been around extreme, moderate, and liberal SDAs. Never once have I ever heard any say that the Bible is to be interpreted through EGW.
They never admit to that. But they absoloutly do interpret the Bible through Ellen White' writings.
@@internetuser7156 My SDA friend told me that I can't understand the Bible without EGW writings
@DANNYCHISENGA Your fiend needs to try Jesus! The only thing we need to understand the Bible is the Holy Spirit and consistent, prayerful study.
@@jonagylfa6831 Since they never admit it, how did you discover this? Did you use your crystal ball, tarot cards and ouija board?
@@DANNYCHISENGA Someone is telling a big fat story. I suspect it's you D.
The title seems to say that Pastor Parr’s explanation warrants concern. I was concerned!
That’s how I read it too lol
Me too 😅
Me too! Glade I watched the video!
had me scared😂
His explanation doesnt warrant concern. Its filled with strawmans. He did not do his research properly
I am Adventist. You guys can believe in rumors you want about Adventists but I pray whoever is reading this certainly believes that Jesus is your personal savior then you’ll be saved ❤ my siblings in Christ (any denomination) keep spreading the good news and stop thinking it’s based on our works!
It's not rumors when the Scriptures reveal things about this cultist mentality/behavior. I had a run in with a cult that doesn't challenge anything that is being taught or return to what the Word of God actually says. You SDA cultists are definitely the same and are up there with the JW and LDS. And it makes no sense to me, when the behavior clearly doesn't match up with what you guys say.
@@Ichigo_Kurosaki27 thank you for raising this issue and I respect you for your thoughts and how rational you think as a human being ❤️ I’m not sure what denomination you are but it would be intellectually dishonest for me to judge your entire group off of the actions of a few individuals. In light of the fact that Jesus always preached love, came and lived a sinless life that’s really who we should put our faith in ⭐️ are there people who mess up? Sure who doesn’t…but let’s not forget the bigger picture
@@Ichigo_Kurosaki27I grew up adventist and always disagreed with the Ellen g white tards lol. I went to and adventist university and the theology department was actually super liberal almost progressive lol
I also go to a sda church but I reject EG white and the Sabbath day worship for salvation doctrin. Jesus is my saviour not my decision to worship on a certain day of the week. I spend time with God daily with reading the word and praying. I believe to keep the Sabbath is to keep your relation with Jesus and that is done daily not just on Saturday. However I do enjoy going to church (building) on Saturday and fellowshipping with like minded believers.
@@arkhamkillzone Amen we’re like twins ❤️relationship with him over religion & friendly fellowship is like family ngl
Our Pastor, just two weeks ago, in a sermon said, "If you reject Ellen White then you have rejected God, because you have rejected his prophet." I've got one foot out the door
Everything Ellen G white said is base from the Bible. Jesus kept the Sabbath and also his disciples, he didn't come to change the law , but to uphold it.
That's ridiculous. Give me his name. I'll talk to his conference.
Before you flee out the door tell that "pastor" that there IS no *prophet* SINGULAR and that he should read Hebrews 1.
And remind him also that prophet *S* plural are members of the Body of Christ - past present and future - and it is written, "The Spirit of prophets is subject to the prophets" ALL plural.
@@travis9226that's complete false
@travis9226 no man is going to make me lose my crown. I hope you don't let anyone cause you to fall away 😊
I'm SDA and used to think it was quite legalistic. However, once I stopped listening to messed up people around me and started reading for myself, I found out that the SDA doctrine is not what's flawed. People are the problem. With that said, I find it strange that only 9 of the 10 Commandments still matter. But if I tried to cut it to 8 people would take issue.
To my understanding , Sunday worship as "the mark of the beast" is about the Roman Catholic Church saying --- IN THEIR OWN WRITINGS --- that they changed the Sabbath to Sunday as their mark of authority over the Bible (The Catholic Record of London Ontario Sept 1 1923; The Catholic Mirror Sept 23 1893; Our Sunday Visitor Feb 5 1950) ). They even outlawed observance of the 7th-day Sabbath (Council of Laodicea AD 364). I won't pretend know what the mark of the beast is, but I think siding with the Catholic Church is highly problematic.
As far as Ellen White, she herself said that she's not a prophet, but a messenger. Take that however you want, but perhaps Jesus' followers are all supposed to be God's messengers. She wrote that we must read the Scriptures as a safeguard from false teachers and everything is to be tested against the Bible (Great Controversy 593). She also said the Bible is the ONLY unquestionable authority, not her writings (Christ Object Lessons 39,40). Some SDAs elevate her too highly despite her objections, but most do not.
Actually Sunday worship came from Jesus rising from the dead on Sunday (Easter). Resurrected from death to life and that is why the Christians have been worshipping together on Sunday since that time.
I'm not here to debate, just offering food for thought for curious cats. But I'd ask, have you studied the matter for yourself? Why follow the ways of men instead of instructions of God? And did you read any of the references from the Catholic Church? Regardless, do whatever the Spirit leads you to do and God bless.
@@conservativemama3437 watch Total Onslaught Series by Dr. Walter Veith. Emperor Constantine actually changed the day of the Biblical Sabbath as to incorporate the pagans with the Christians for worship. Man cannot change God’s Commandments. Also compare the catechism to the Bible’s 10 Commandments. The RCC admits to changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday
@@conservativemama3437 - RCC quotes:
“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason...The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance... The author of the Sunday law... is the Catholic Church.” Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.
“The Sunday...is purely a creation of the Catholic Church.” American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.
“Sunday...is the law of the Catholic Church alone...” American Sentinel (Catholic), June 1893.
“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles...From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.
“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.
I have a SDA friend, I’ve studied a lot about the subjects. If you read Justin Martyrs early writing, he mentioned Christians getting together on Sunday. This is before Rome declared that Sunday was the new rest day. To me, this piece of evidence is clear enough (plus adding the insufficient biblical passage to say that the sabbath rest is for the new covenant, plus Old Testament scripture saying that sabbath rest was made for Israelites so they can remember where God took them from). It’s undeniable, that Christians began worshiping on Sunday.
Jesus is our sabbath, not a weekday.
Huh?
I heard some one say this before, but so do we ignore the commandment about keeping the sabbath? Or does that just mean it don't matter what day we do it on? Cause I believe the sabbath is on Saturday, but I know we are saved by grace through faith, but still the bible says make your calling and election sure.
This is the truth it's not about a day Saturday or Sunday any more but it's about being in the rest of God
@@mdp1991Christians worship on the Lords day-which is Sunday- and many Christian’s who view the Ten Commandments as a moral law have made Sunday, the Lords day, the Christian sabbath. Check out the didache.
@@JoshuaBwinja-lv9ty amen, the book of Hebrews explains it well ❤️🙏
I was a 6th generation SDA and officially had my name taken off the membership books in 2021. Since that time, I have felt God’s grace and more of the Holy Spirit's presence in my life as I am studying the Bible for myself from beginning to end. Beware of any church that tells you they are the ones that have THE TRUTH. Study the Bible for yourself with fresh eyes. Don't worry about what EGW said or didn't say. It's a waste of time to do that when you have multiple translations of the Bible , concordance, and Hebrew and Greek reference books , and the Holy Spirit available to help you.
this paragraph that you wrote is probably the wisest piece of advice I’ve ever heard. this can be applied to anyone in the world whether or not they have previous “church” influences. I hope everyone sees your comment! God bless you!
All churches say that.
Have u read any of her books? Please tell me yes because if u haven't, then u can't give an opinion. I have a friend who was SDA but didn't like ellen white and one summer she did canvassing and actually read something from ellen white and she saw that it was good
@@Bella-xj3yv its a good thing to read many things and opinions to widen ones space of thinking. but i believe the bible alone should be enough to get a christian going.
i second the post of Laura, doing bible study and search for god might be better not relying on interpretation of others. staying independent and open to whats been read. if others did this for you, you cannot see their errors. tribalism is a bad thing in search for the truth. tribalism is a good thing to get you motivated thou. so there is that.
Amen!
Friday evening to Saturday evening is Sabbath and I believe we should keep it but not for salvation. We should worship everyday so to say people shouldn't worship on Sunday is wrong. I'm not a SDA just sharing my beliefs.
Agree with you 100
Do not you understand these things? Christ is your Sabbath. Do you not know seven represents death and eight represents new life. Why then do they circumcise men on the 8th day pointing to a time of new beginnings in Christ. Christ completed our law adherence by becoming that law which is implanted into our hearts. He is the law from heaven. Just as Jesus is the manna which was in the Ark, likewise Jesus is the commandments which were in the Ark. Christ is the fullness of all things. He is your life. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed in his glory. For if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly. For if I rebuild what I once destroyed, I prove myself as a transgressor, therefore I died to law so that I might live to God through Christ. Jesus is everything.
@@BrandonGray We get our righteousness through Christ. He leads me. I follow.
@@quiet-strength The moment you say, 'we should keep the sabbath' it can mean 2 things...
Either you say we need to keep it on saturday and no other day... Or you say, we need to keep a rest on a day in the week, to worship our lord Jesus Christ...
Either way it is not for salvation, which means the sda church is condemning other believers wrongfully, therefor they are not a biblical church...
God bless you all greatly, brothers and sisters...
☁️☁️🙏🙏🕊️👑🕊️🙏🙏☁️☁️
@@heavynetwork6804 Sabbath is set apart. Friday evening to Saturday evening. I believe we can worship any day of the week but Sabbath is the 7th day. That can't be changed. He blessed and sanctified it.. Who are we to change that? God Bless!
Unfortunate wording of the video title, Pastor Mike. Perhaps you meant: "Allen Parr's Explanation Concerning the Seventh Day Adventists? :)
😂 I couldn't figure out why it didn't sound right
Haha yes, exactly.
Haha, nah Pastor Winger is just a secret Seventh Day Adventist 😏😉
It sounds so disparaging lol
Yes I was surprised and expected that pastor Mike was going to be showing how he is concerned with brother Allen Parr’s explanation. I have so much respect for both men that I was concerned this was a video to criticize Allen’s views on SDAs. Haha needless to say I am relieved. Maybe consider changing the title Pastor Mike :)
No, it is not merely an issue of what day we worship or they worship. The Apostle Paul made it abundantly clear that when you are BORN again, there is liberty with the godly things, such as one day or another day, but that the substance is found in Christ. Romans 14 and Colossians both talk about this as does Jesus in John. The Truth will set you FREE. You can worship on whatever day you choose to, *IF you are born again and trusting exclusively in the Messiah and NOT WHAT YOU DO!*
Amen. Well said.
Let's just forget that GOD himself specified the day, but who cares, GOD is inconsistent right? Says one thing today and in the future (a future GOD supposedly knows everything about because he's omniscient) just changes it. Because he just feels like it.
Brother, Jesus Himself said if you love Me you will keep My commandments. Keeping the Sabbath is one of those commandments. We wouldn't start keeping idols, have other gods, or use His name in vain, would we? Why would we ignore the 4th? In fact, it's the only command God started with the word remember... He knew we would forget. It never changed throughout the entire bible. What Paul is speaking of are the ceremonial Sabbaths, NOT our weekly Sabbath with God. The people in biblical times understood this.
The Sabbath was abolished by man, NOT God. Constantine changed it so pagans, Greeks and Romans would join his "holy nation". He even had all of his soldiers get baptized, even those that didn't believe.
When you seal the Sabbath on your heart, you grow with God! It's not just a command written in God's own hand, but it's a new level of spirituality with our great and glorious King! God WILL make a way for you brother to keep the Sabbath! Please pray on it, ask God with an open heart to show you His truth only. May God bless you abundantly brother. LOVE BOLDLY!
@@Jesusfreak322 everyday is supposed to be the Sabbath day, we should worship every single day, not just one specific day. In Genesis when God rested on the 7th day and blessed it, the Bible didn't say there was evening and morning like every other day during the creation. It was supposed to tell us that we should rest in Him for eternity, every single day. The idea of keeping the Sabbath day is just too restrictive. Some people don't have the privilege to not work on Sundays because their job require them to do. Would you condemned them and tell them to not work on "the Sabbath day" and ignoring their family needs? Also according to Jewish tradition, the Sabbath day is supposed to be starting from Friday evening to Saturday evening, so are you saying all churches on Earth that held Sunday services to be wrong? Again, I have no issue on keeping the Sabbath day, if you can do it, why not? But saying people that don't keep the exact same Sabbath day as the SDAs are wrong, are the exact same Pharasees that say Jesus didn't keep the Sabbath day because he healed a person.
⚠️ Jesus is my God ⚠️
If any day goes, why
1) did Jesus single out the Sabbath when He told the Pharisees it is good to do good on the Sabbath when they accused Jesus if violating the Sabbath?
2) didn't Jesus say it is good to do good on any day?
I think this video is misinformative. I'm not an SDA, but what I've learned is, they believe the same things but just keep the true Sabbath. That's literally it. If the reformation wants to live Sola Scriptura, in my personal opinion, they should keep the Sabbath then. Not to replace faith based salvation with works, no. But following suite with the concept of obedience to Gods will and Gods word. The Roman Catholic Church literally claims to change the Sabbath... Look I dont follow denominations, but I stict to the scriptures. I'd advise that for everyone.
In regard to Sunday worship being the mark of the beast context needs to be added. SDA believes that the beast is the Roman Empire which changed the law and the times....the law in regard to the Ten Commandments deleting the commandment of worshiping idols and graven images and splitting the tenth commandment in regard to coveting into two and hence still adding all the commandments to ten in total. The times were changed in regard to the Sabbath being the seventh holy day being proclaimed holy and a day of rest by the Lord when He Himself rested on that day during the 6 day creation where He set the seventh day aside and sanctified it by making it special. By the authority of the Roman Empire the first day of the week Sunday became the seventh day and the day of worship of the sun god. This is evident in some calendars where Sunday is placed as the seventh day of the week...the Romans were attributed blame for this by the SDA and the Papacy is the continuation remnant of the Roman Empire. That is not all though.
The SDA teaches that this remnant of the Roman Empire will rise again through the Papacy and unite with Protestant churches and establish global rule and America will no longer be free in this arrangement. The hallmark of this regime is Sunday being set aside as the official day of worship and everyone who refuses to accept this will be persecuted and eliminated because of the whore of Babylon also known as the mother of all whores....a whore in SDA teaching is a corrupt church which the Papacy claims to be the mother of all churches....obviously it is implied that the ecumenical movement uniting Protestant churches with the mother church is a coalition of whores (corrupt churches) amalgamating with the secular forces namely the State. At the helm of this global regime is Sunday worship for which is the legacy of the Roman Empire to be brought down by the coming messiah who will establish God's kingdom on earth that will last forever. This is the context of Sunday being the mark of the beast....it is not existing willy nilly in a vacuum devoid of historical past events that go back all the way to Emperor Constantine who officially set up Sunday as State day of worship throughout the Roman Empire and later adopted by the Papacy.
What do you think about green Sabbath/ climate Sunday?
Well said.
@@lekzkolo6298 "climate change" birthing pains could be the the driving factor that encourages all people, believers and non believers alike, to force a mandatory day of rest "for the earth".
The perfect disguise for a Sunday law.
The so called "christian" church would demand it on the basis of current Sunday worship. Also, the secular world would demand it on the basis of climate change.
The stage has been set with this plan-demic and the snowball effect is accelerating rapidly.
I think you have the right idea about what's really going on my friend.
Thank you for adding the context! I would say as well that we understand the closing scenes of prophecy to show us two groups of people, those who have maintained purity of worship (salvation by faith and a true understanding of the Sabbath as a sign of that), and a GREAT MULTITUDE of sincere followers of Christ from every background. Our understanding of revelation is that the conflict between true religion and corrupted religion will reach a climax before Christ comes, in which the Sabbath and Sunday and what they represent will be a clear conflict for the world to see, and those alive at that time will have to choose between the two. If/when that conflict arises, we will see if Seventh-day-Adventists have interpreted prophecy correctly.
Allen is attacking a straw man of the Sabbath being about going to church.
It isn't.
I was also dismayed at how he gleefully trashed the 4th commandment in 3 seconds flat and moved right along like nothing had happened.
But hey, what do I know? :D
Right!? And also If we are being led by the spirit now under grace, wouldn't He lead us to keep the commandments
@@sunglassesnocap It grieved me to hear Allen say that the seventh-day Adventists Christians interpret scripture based on the interpretation of Ellen White which is 100% false. In my experience, before I knew and accepted the inspired writings of Ellen I came to Bible truths such as the seventh-day Sabbath, and how the Catholic church substituted the seventh day of the week to the first day etc. I came to the truth about who the remnant church is according to Bible prophecy and it led me to this movement. The Bible tells us that the dragon is wroth with a specific church, they keep all the commandments of God and have the faith and testimony of Jesus. Any church which teaches that God's law doesn't play a role in the Christian life is on the wrong side of the spiritual battle.
Yeah, I mean, there definitely is a point to be made that we keep the rest of the 10 commandments and use them as a guideline for how we should behave in everyday life. It's odd to just blissfully toss out one of them, and then act like it's legalism to question that decision. I agree with him that it's not a *salvation* issue, but it is an issue in that way.
I felt similarly about how he discussed the death thing. "Eternal punishment" is not the same thing as eternally being in a continuous state of being actively punished, and *this* is where SDAs draw a distinction. It's not the "eternal" part he discusses, it's what "punishment" means. He really glossed over that and didn't really give an accurate description of the SDA view there. It was disappointing. (And fwiw, I only consider myself to loosely be SDA, because I don't really follow Ellen White but I did attend an SDA church for ages and I agree with a lot of the broader strokes of their theology.)
Paul had church on SUNDAY --- Acts 20:7
I think Allen Parr is just a biased guy against the SDA and who thinks he knows all, but he doesn't!
Why doesn't he show in written form and in documents what he claimed on? Everything is merely hearsay.
I'm not an SDA member but I like to think critically based on my knowledge.
Now you are a thinking man. God says "Come, let us reason together..." Its not like he asks us to leave our brains at the door.
Just watching him struggle to try to find something negative to say was worth him making the video.
@@nightlight7654 You haven't seen some of his earlier videos. He has since been challenged so much for his mis-speaking, that his struggle is with conviction. For that we are thankful. You will not be able to misquote the Bible for long around a determined Adventist.
@@treefellonya Amen.Indeed I do not watch much off his videos.
Not to be mean but I think he is kinda Dumb, in general but as well in his knowledge of the word of God.
Kinda your typical Lukewarm, watered down Christian Evangelical.
Not quite as bad than Pentacostal/Charismatic but even worst than Mainline Protestantism.
God INSTITUTED the Seventh Day Sabbath at CREATION, SANCTIFIED it, MADE it HOLY, said to REMEMBER it and WROTE it with His finger on STONE TABLETS. Case Closed! How is it that it's the one commandment people want to do away with or change?
When will you @MikeWinger do an extensive study on SDA 🥺
Yes!
Yes definitely pastor Mike you’ll fine a lot but a lot of lies on that cult
Try Dale Ratzlaff on former adventist channel on YT. He was 3/4th generation sda. Saved by God's grace He knows egg whites writings back to front can reference it, then rebuke it with scripture. As an ex sda He was a great resource to me. Some beautiful testimonies on their too.
@@markdonnaabbott3977 yes your right I have seen videos of Dale Ratzlaff
Being raised by 2nd or 3rd generation adventist parents, Dale Ratzlaff and his ministry was helpful in untangling some of the faulty doctrine when coming back to Christ and studying the bible and church history. Also search the books by DM Canright he had close interactions with EG White was has a lot to say of the inner workings of the SDA church back then.
I think it would be fantastic if you could invite someone from the SDA church to explain their position. I feel like they are sometimes marginalized because of the Sabbath issue.
True
I would accept an invitation to explain our position because video after video I see about us is always wrong. What shocks me most is how many use other websites that attack us to get their sources and the problem with these websites is they twist and take Ellen White writings out of context. Instead of quoting from our 28 fundamental beliefs I often see instead some outlandish explanation of what be believe and I say where in the world do they get these explanations from. I have yet to see any current UA-camrs that would bring some SDA Pastors to defend and answer their questions in a fair way. I would be glad to accept any invitation along with a friend to answer and challenge some of the false ideas on these videos.
@Jason albrecht They are not a cult. You may have been 30 years in it and not like it but they are not a cult.
@Jason albrecht The Sanctuary doctrine is a solid biblically based teaching.
Its amusing how we are comfortable keeping the other commandments, but call people who honor all n not just nine a cult. But what is more amusing is we keep nine but still call them ten.
Lets understand one thing God has used prophets all through out and just bcuz some people dont know how to put Allen, s writings in their place, doesnt make a whole group a cult. To me it looks like we are trying to cover the Sabbath truth from people by misunderstanting this group of people. I pray every one here to open their bibles and find the truth and stop trying to find it here bcuz here or any other platform people speak according to their own minds. But God wants u to hear from Him thru da Bible read ur Bible people or else we gonna drown in the mess everyone is creating. Keep in mind, you cant tell false teachers from the true one unless u know the Bible urself
One thing only I will say: there is a huge difference between everlasting punishment & everlasting punishing.
Amen.
Definitely. The punishment is everlasting because once you are destroyed, you are destroyed forever. There is no coming back. Complete annihilation from existence. I’m not a SDA, but I do embrace annihilation, because an everlasting torment for a limited amount of sins is not consistent with a good God.
@@brettrfalcon730 I would be very careful to think you understand Gods reasoning for eternal damnation.. according to the Bible, Jesus said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.. it will be a place of torment and pain, being fully separated from God for eternity. Read the word.. God ultimately demands eternal outcomes since he is eternal.. our earthly little minds don’t understand these things so we try to make ourselves feel good by saying we will be destroyed, yet that’s not what the Bible teaches... ever.. anywhere in it.
@@riveroflife9956 Hey.
Actually, being separated from GOD for eternity, doesn't mean burning in hell for in eternity. Its like if you lose a loved one.
Let's say they died 15 years ago because the house caught on fire.
They are separated from you for 15 years, but it doesn't mean that they burned for 15 years. They experienced torment and definitely pain because they burned in that house and suffocated, but it doesn't mean they'll burn forever.
You could also read Revelation 21.
Laterr :)
Agreed. He focused on the "eternal" part when most of us who hold an SDA-like view of these things focus on the "punishment' part.
The Seventh-day Adventist Church is not a group. In fact it is a movement Praise the Lord!
Paul had church on SUNDAY --- Acts 20:7
Get someone from the SDA church to talk about themselves
I'll go on with Mike. He's a great guy and I enjoy his approach to God's word
Thank you!
There are many SDA are right here committing being trolls as they say no just kidding spreading the true word of God
I’m Adventist and I think there is a lot of misunderstanding from Allen. Of course I think is without intention. I would be glad to have a video with you mike if you want to have a direct testimony from a Adventist UA-camr. Regards and thanks for your channel !!
SDAs aren't Christians, but are Arians like the JWs. No wonder you both believe Jesus is Michael.
"Our pioneers clearly held Arian or semi-Arian views in regard to the person of Christ. They understood “firstborn over all creation” (Col 1:15) and “only begotten Son” (John 3:16) in a literal sense. The Father, therefore, was first and superior, and the Son, who had a beginning sometime in eternity, was subordinate to the Father. A corollary of this view was the belief that the Holy Spirit is an influence or the power of God, but not a person." (Gerhard Pfandl, Biblical Research Institute, The Doctrine of the Trinity Among Seventh-day Adventists; Journal of the Adventist Theological Society, 17/1 (Spring 2006): 160-179)
You are a Seventh Day Adventist, I am a Christian. We have different religions, different God's and different gospels. There is very little we share. You just use the same words, likes the JWs, Mormons, etc etc. But you mean something else entirely.
@@Phill0old they do not believe in different gods 🤦🏻
@@jeffreyrupright807 Yes, they do. A triune God, an incarnate deity are not the same God as that of the SDAs.
@@johnsix.51-69 thanks for this! I am very interested in looking into this. The Jesuits have been very busy corrupting things
There are opposing verses in the Bible on the issue of eternal torment vs. permanent annihilation of the soul. Alan already mentioned the everlasting torment parts but here are some verses that back up the annihilation side.
"The soul who sins is the one who will die" (Ezekiel 18:20) - please see the whole context of Ezekiel 18 it really backs up the annihilation argument rather than eternal torment in hell
"The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23) - death is clearly a state of non-being as if the soul of the wicked still survives death then the gift of eternal life is redundant even if the soul of the wicked continues in an eternal life of torment......the gift of eternal life makes sense with the penalty of death....death of the soul.
"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life he was thrown into the lake of fire (to die a second time after the death of the flesh.....this is the death of the soul (my added emphasis) (Revelation 20:14-15)
"Repent or perish" (Luke 13: 1 - 9) - summarised and paraphrased.....perish is a state of non-being not eternal torment.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28) - a clear warning God can destroy the soul not just the body and as already established by the previous verses above God will exercise such power. It is clearly unjust and disproportionate punishment to punish finite temporal sinful activities with eternal torment and God is not only just He is also not unnecessarily monstrous tarnishing His attribute of being a just God. Annihilation also allows the universal realm to be cleansed from the souls of wickedness even though Revelation clearly mentions the trinity of evil (the beast, the false prophet and the Devil) burning in hell for all eternity. This latter part seems to put the Holy Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit symbolising the Good in juxtaposition to evil. So long as free will exists good and evil remain to be choices and hence co-eternal even if the souls of the wicked are annihilated and extinguished forever at the end of the age.
Two verses I always thought really pushed the idea of annihilationism were
2 Peter 2:6 if by zturning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, amaking them an example of bwhat is going to happen to the ungodly
And Jude 1:7 7 as (A)Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Sodom and Gomorrah were set forth as an example of eternal fire for those who do ungodly. I’ve heard it said, was the fire eternal or the results of the fire. They did burn, but they never rose again, I’m the same way the ungodly will burn, while the fire won’t be forever, they will never rise again. This is the second death
It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.
The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).
The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).
@@drumjosh1987 what verse in the Bible says he'll will burn out?
@ Mike Winger
Mike Winger. I love listening to you. Im a SDA. Never in my church have i heard that only Sabbatkeepers will go to heaven. They even say theres thousands of Christian Catholics that also will make heaven. Please look up David asscherick's. DA with DA, where he speaks about Ellen g White.
Adventists are liars. Adventist pastors lie to their own cult captives so they won’t leave with their checkbook. Hie naive are you. Your prophet pontificated owner and over that an ancient and abrogated Hebrew ritual law is the golden clasp of salvation and that no man would enter heaven without God’s government seal which is observance of a Hebrew ritual law that hadn’t existed in 2,000 years. Adventists are biblical fools and Bible illiterate. Adventists are not Christians
What does Jesus say about who is saved and who isn't? Let Him speak to you instead of all these people who are no better than you.
@@jerrodlopes186 I’ve been listening to Jesus of Nazareth for a very long time. Here’s what Messiah said about who is saved:” Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.” Jesus of Nazareth speaking to a Pharisee and a member of the Sanhedrin, Nicodemus. “ Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished I said to you,’ You muse be born from above.’ Adventists have never died so they have never been born again. Adventists never speak about being born again; it’s a foreign concept to them. Being saved is a supernatural phenomenon. Adventist messenger from hell Ellen White mocked Christians who proclaimed they were saved, and forbade Adventists to say they are saved. Adventists are asinine wannabe Jews playing religious games; they are not saved. It’s not difficult to figure out. Holy writ teaches Adventists are Judaizers who preach a twice cursed gospel and live under a curse.
But the issue is that SDA’s will say what you said until you just talk to them a bit more. Then all of a sudden it’s “keeping the sabbath is a sign you won’t get the mark of the beast”. ……so I mean you can say that but the reality is that a lot SDA’s don’t really believe that non SDA’s are saved. I mean they called non-SDA’s are part of the great apostasy. That’s y’all’s beliefs and it’s a shame to hide that to lure people in 🤷🏾♀️
@@shanbraz6011 the heart and dark soul of the despicable Adventist demonic cult is the “ Shut door of mercy” heresy. Ellen White vision supported the lie and fought for it until at least 1851. The shut door meant no human on earth was saved except the small band of shut door advent people who were devotees of false prophet William Miller; an ignorant farmer with a crazy fascination with the numeral 7.
Ellen pontificated it was no longer necessary to pray for the unsaved or even love them because they were doomed and without hope. The Adventist messenger from hell pontificated Christian pastors had the blood of souls on their hands because they refused to promulgate the fables and fairy tales from hell Ellen presented. Adventists are not Christians. Adventists have perfected the art of public deception. They are insidious liars. Only naive ignorant people think Adventists are redeemed saints.
Why does no one actually ever invite a Seventh Day Adventist to explain their own faith?
This guy opines a lot on Adventism but has essentially, not once, actually provided any clarity on the subject. Honestly this was mind numbing.
Im putting myself forward. Ive done so already before on Allens channel but have never received a response.
Yeah. Get Pavel Goia on here. Talk about an SDA on fire for Christ. We all have some heresy in us, and it's important to be humble about that.
Because he knows SDA is a false religion.
@@fortunefaded3983
Even if Adventism was the most false religion to ever exist, created by satan himself, Christian integrity still demands that if youre going to pretend to give an account of it, that the person so doing should do so truthfully just like we render accounts for anything else we would assess in an objective way, regardless of what we think or feel about it.
And as someone who insists he speaks to Adventists directly, he should at minimum, at least once, interview an actual Adventist, since again, integrity requires that you give one the opportunity to represent themselves if youre going to charge them with anything.
So please, go be an idiot somewhere else.
@@SomeChristianGuy. lol, and no you don't dictate people on what to do.
@@fortunefaded3983
Of course I dont, which is why I appealed to christian integrity, and common western social conventions which requires people be given the opportunity to represent themselves, you know, common ethics which govern how we should behave and treat each other if we are going to pretend to have integrity.
When I realised that Atheism was wrong, I gave each faith I investigated the courtesy of representing themselves by the most qualified of its members, and once I settled on Christianity and converted, I did the same thing for each denomination I investigated.
The reason is because in the vast majority of cases second hand witnesses butcher the testimony even if they dont intend to and have good intentions, and Allen Parr is no exception when attempting to explain Adventism. Everything I have seen of his on the subject so far is shoddy at best, despite what I believe is his best intention to get it right.
You nailed it.
I was raised a SDA and went through the educational system. I'm thankful to have been an SDA growing up. It saved me from a lot of trauma I would have otherwise had in my life. I love the Sabbath also, the day set aside to rest and celebrate creation. However, I spent my early adult life trying to figure out how Ellen G. White interpreted scripture. It was never explained in context when scripture was used. It was "a text here and a text" there. I read her books extensively trying to understand the teachings. I was taught that if a prophet taught contrary to scripture then the person wasn't a true prophet.
I studied my way out of the SDA church. In her book, The Great Controversy, she said during the tribulation we would have to stand before God without the intercession of Christ. We would have to reach a level of perfection to stand before God. Hebrews clearly states that Christ lives evermore to make intercession for us. This was my reason for not remaining an Adventist.
I love my friends in the Adventist church. I will say most SDAs haven't actually read most of Ellen G. Whites books. Interesting to me that during the 1830's, 1840's the LDS church began with a prophet along with SDA's and Christian Scientists, and Jehovah Witnesses.
Thanks for your presentation. Again I love my friends in the SDA church. I love the Sabbath.
I agree with you as I used to belong as well . I was a “ moderate “ as I came from the Pentecostal church .I starting researching into the Messianic Jews because to me they are very important piece in Gods word and plan .The 10 commandments are a no brainer that they are our moral code of law . Although now law makers change things and this is leading to lawlessness . It’s only the sabbath of the 10 that bother people . The fact is God did bless the 7 day for rest . Saturday . Of course we do rest in Jesus every day but after creation there was a day that was for rest from God even He himself rested
I think there is some misunderstanding here when it comes to Ellen G white. I know there are some the denominations of SDA that hold Ellen in the same level as the apostles, and I personally have told them that is as dangerous as the the Catholic church holding Mary on the same level with the apostles as well. Ellen G White herself spoke about her writings saying that her writings are no more than her personal opinions and thoughts and that she recommends the Bible over anything she had ever written. So if anyone you meet says her writings are the same as the bible, tell them she herself said refer to the Bible for anything she has said.
Brethren, It is written, Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believe. What then is Christ? It is written, the righteousness of faith speaks as follows; Do not say in you heart, who will ascend into heaven, that is to bring Christ down or who will descend into the abyss, that is to bring Christ up from the dead, but what does it say, the word is near you, in your mouth and in you heart. Brethren, it written whoever listens to Christ has been taught by God. I pray that you understand this so that you may be free as I am in Christ. For if anyone fails at one point in the law, they are guilty of all. So then speak and act as those who are under the law of liberty which is Christ crucified.
Give Seventh Day Baptists a look
Many false teaching movements that were centered around William Miller false 1844 second coming prophecy.
I joined the seventh day adventist church a few months shy of a year ago. Honestly most of the things I've heard people say about the church and even in this video is either based off of misinterpretation or fear.
What I've come to understand about my church and the denomination as a whole is as listed:
- We really do believe the whole bible is true
-We believe in the Holy Trinity
- Baptism
- Salvation by grace
- We believe that God still requires us to keep the Sabbath. The Catholic Church changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday and openly admits it. They had no authority to do so.
- We believe that though we are saved by grace God still requires us to obey His commandments
- We believe that Christ is God in the flesh who lived, died, and resurrected and will return
- We believe in the post tribulation rapture
- We believe that those humans who go to the lake of fire will be completely destroyed, killed, wiped out, burt up
- we believe that God alone is immortal and that eternal life can only come through Him
👏 Agreed. I grew up sda. We do not put egw above the bible at all. We do believe she had the gift of prophecy and we all can debate on that. I can go 4-5 sabbath without hearing egw mentioned at all. You dont need her to be sda.The sda church is open to debating scripture and questioning, the deciding factor of what is right will always be the bible. Egw said if her writings do not align with the bible throw it the garbage. Ppl listen to allan parr break dont bible topics and sda read ellen g white once in while for the same reason. If there is one thing about the sda church, u must know your bible.
@@katmossa3503 I didn't even hear about Egw when I first came to Sda. And I think I can count on one hand the times I've actually heard anyone talk about her at all.
Paul had church on SUNDAY --- Acts 20:7
Paul had church on SUNDAY --- Acts 20:7
@@goofball111 and so. I'm sure they had church other days as well
Is not stealing being legalistic if Keeping the sabbath is ?
GOOD question man. Suddenly, the one commandment that proves our loyalty to our Creator is the one that determines if someone is legalistic or not. Sigh
@Jayla I'd like to suggest that you read Mark 7 (the entire verse). And then read about Constantine and Sunday. And of course, pray about it!
What did Jesus say about the sabbath?
Exactly!
Paul had church on SUNDAY --- Acts 20:7
The SDA position is sola scriptura. EGW is used as background information. If ever EGW disagrees and or contradicts the bible, the SDA position is to lean on the bible. She was human. She made mistakes. Hope this helped. Happy Sabbath 😁
That’s not the official position of the church. She is considered a prophet
@@DaProdigyNyc she had visions. These visions are instructive and constructive. They line up with the bible. Ie shes a prophet. Retain the good, discard the bad. It's just that most of the things she says can be backed by the bible, or give an explanation for murky verses. It's like the whole issue with the bible. Do you believe that it is perfect, with nothing scientifically incorrect and every word coming directly from God (plenary Verb inspiration with inerrancy) or that some things may be incorrect and it is written in the context of the writter, but that it is good for its main purpose of salvation (dynamic thought inspiration with infallibility).
@@torrestricks9901 They don't line up with the bible. Which part of the bible does it say that Jesus final atonement is in two phases or that he went into the most holy place in 1844? Which part of the bible does it state that Sunday worship is the mark of the best and the sabbath is the seal of God? Which part of the bible does it state you have to be vegan to be saved? or that diet is salvific? Which part of the bible does it talk about the Shut Door doctrine? I can go on and on she is a false prophet bro
@@DaProdigyNyc Israel killed the prophets. Just read Steps to Christ and Desire of Ages. Great Controversy. Beautifully written with so much inspiration. If you search the scriptures you can confirm your doubts. EG White even said if we studied the Bible more there wouldn’t have been a need for her to be a messenger. God loves us and wanted to warn us in these end days.
quote-----The SDA position is sola scriptura. EGW is used as background information. If ever EGW disagrees and or contradicts the bible, the SDA position is to lean on the bible. She was human. She made mistakes. Hope this helped. Happy Sabbath 😁--unquote
I have been a SDA member almost 40 years----Given many sermons---BUt--NEVER have I used the writings of EGW.-----
I am not a seven day Adventist. I am a non-denominational Christian. But the 10 commandments do say to keep the Sabbath. And the Sabbath is not on Sunday. And it is a big deal in Gods, Jesus view! So it is in my view! So in that sense I'm withe SDA...
Paul held church on a Sunday Acts 20:7
The Sabbath Day is the True Worship and Rest day for God and that begins on Friday sun down till Saturday sun down end of the story.
For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
Hebrews 4:8-10
That means The True people ( church) of God keeps the Sabbath day HOLY.
ALLLLLLLLL Sunday worship Churches on earth are completely Lost because they worship the sun instead of the living true God with His Character Exodus 20 ( 10 commandments ) including the Sabbath day
Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
( Disobedience that means also Incl Sunday Worshipping)
Hebrews 4:11
I'm an Adventist and I have never evangelized with Ellen White's writing but just the Bible . And it has being wonderful all the way
What Bible do you use? Clear Word is not a faithful translation
@@Jesusluvsmeandyou King James version sorry
You can ask me to defend my beliefs and I will
@@edafematthew8406
If her writings aren't good enough to evangelize with, then why hold to her "revelations" at all yourself? It seems you know her musings aren't valid scripture so why abiide in a group that exaults a false prophet alongside the hand picked Apostles of Jesus Christ? When you strip down all the extra-biblical additives, an SDA is just a christian who really loves upholding the Sabbath. So why accept all the unbiblical red flags instead of finding a theologically sound church? I wonder if when you evangelize (while leaving out Ellen White's leaven), do you invite new converts to one of your SDA churches (who will likely start introducing them to Ellen White's false revelations anyway).
@@justaregularguy115 her writing are good its just that you can't preach to someone a book they don't know
@@faithfultoyeshua4576
Nonsense, the Bible is a book someone can not know (specifically a new convert). And The Bible is all we Christians need. But you cultists add and elevate a false prophet's musings alongside scripture, yet you admit you dare not share that info with new coverts. This is what cults do. They obscure their true beliefs until later on in the indoctrination process and by then its harder to reject it.
They need to throw out Ellen G White's writings.
You dont use a Bible commentary?
Btw I believe somewhere in her writings she stated that she is a lesser light leading to the greater Light: The Word of God.
@@lekzkolo6298 EGW'S teaching's condradict the Bible scriptures, like the phantom Sunday law and investigative judgement .
@@janetdavidson8798 Read about the blue laws that actually happened this is nothing of a phantom it Originated in England called sundaylaws they renamed it blue laws
I think by criticizing other religions, you are missing the point. I get if a religion is deeply flawed but Adventist are not flawed, they follow a sound theological interpretation. Just as evangelicals follow a different interpretation. The body of Christ is made up of all these religions. I think this video is a distraction on what is truly important.
I agree to a point. We should have conversations about differences; we should not condemn people growing into their faith as heretics or heresies. You're right, the most important thing is God gets all the glory and we all worship Him.
@@dannygene agreed. My point is… Jesus is the way and salvation. I think if a religion believes that then why are we even talking about this. Yes, there is differences in interpretation of prophecy, state of the dead, etc. But we really don’t know for certain who is correct. People might be persecuted for keeping the sabbath or maybe we will all get a chip. Regardless, we will be persecuted for following Christ and we can all agree on that. So why bring our fellow brothers and sister down…
@@afr801 hey buddy, I guess you are me.
@@dannygene you made the list too.
@@veritasmuy2407 again if you are expecting for me to enter into a defensive or offensive argument, then you are following a different Jesus than the one in the NT. There is no time to waste on such nonsense. That is my point…
The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.
-The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.
*Acts 17:28*
"For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."
In this 17 chapter of acts, in the first passage you will read that Paul, as his custom, went to synagogue *on the Sabbath* and ministered to the church of Thessalonica carrying the message said above to them..
We can live an move and have our being in Christ along with respecting the day Christ himself sanctified for us..
They go hand in hand.. there's not one without the other..
Why, as men have we sanctified Sunday as the lord's day, when the Lord has already made known his day and sanctified it... He didn't change it to everyday, nor did he change it to Sunday, nor did he change it at all.. that's not what he came to do..
Matthew 5: 17-20
*Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.*
@@nicetry620
2. By the empowering of the holy spirit I strive to
We are not under the law.. *NOT* meaning we aren't required to keep the law, but because we are prone to failure, and aren't perfect to keep God's standards without messing up, we are under grace, through faith in Jesus, whose sacrifice signified God's Grace..
*Romans 6:14*
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 *For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
The law is still required of us, we are saved from our inevitable failures (due to our sinful nature), by God's Grace and forgiveness (Jesus' sacrifice), with God's help (The holy spirit) to progressive holiness, through faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
Nb: we don't lie, steal, covet.. why?
Because the law is required of us..
We are under grace because we as sinful creatures are prone to failure..
But by the empowering of God's holy spirit we are able to accomplish in the fruits of the spirit, (love, patience etc), our requirements
@@nicetry620
1. Yes
*Fulfilled* , my beloved
The first definition is "to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise."
The Second definition is "to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands."
The third definition is : to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):
The Fourth definition is : to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:
The fifth definition is : to develop the full potential of (usually used reflexively):
*17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.*
Given the context,
It obviously couldn't be the fourth nor fifth definition because Jesus didn't come to "bring an end" to any of the laws nor change their nature..
he says "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law"
Jesus *fulfilled* the law by obeying it perfectly, thus being a sinless perfect sacrifice (lamb) for our sins
Many other evidence is there in the Bible that state the Sabbath should be kept.. none stating it was nullified or changed in any nature
Not to mention there is no text in the Bible saying that "Jesus is our rest so the Sabbath is no longer to be kept"
Jesus keep it
Not resurrecting on the Sabbath
His disciples keeping it
It being mentioned over 85 times in the book of acts alone
Jesus clarified himself that this would not be the case
@@nicetry620 Keeping the Sabbath not to be saved, but because you are saved
But if you are saved but still willingly refuse the given evidence to keep it you are in direct rebellion
Nb: just rest beloved, and keep his day holy as he asked.. it's for you he made it
"Man is not made for the Sabbath but the Sabbath for Man"
Rest easy from your worries and stresses.. a day to focus more on him, of whom is Love and all that is good
@@nicetry620 please read the whole text...and also check out the "Nb's" I left at the bottom of #2 for you..it sums most of it up
We are not under it, meaning we are not held accountable for fluctuantly transgressing it..
Under grace.. because if we were under the law and not grace, we would've been dead and in hell ages ago.. no lambs for sin offering..
Like a criminal who is under the law and not grace... Is going to be judged by the law according to his terrible crimes, in his case, the punishment is death
Add grace into the mix...
Jesus paid the criminal's fine, though he be guilty, the judge freely and legally lets him go.. pardoned of his transgression
Now does that criminal being under grace go and commit the same crime again and again being under grace?
I'll let apostle Paul answer that for me
Romans 6:15-16
*What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.”*
*Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?*
I strive towards righteousness by the empowering of God's holy Spirit...
Being that I am not perfect, I thank God that I am under grace and not the law
I would love to see you do that study on Ellen G white but just a video where you go through a teaching of a seventh day adventist would be awesome, like what you did with joel olsteen
I recommend he analyze Dr. Walter Veith, Doug Batchelor or Christopher Hudson of Forerunner Chronicles 💯💯💯💯💯💯
This video would've been of greater value if both persons had a researched discussion about the topic instead of one person's view or his perspective of what this Christian organization believes. This person speaking has not researched well enough to give an informed outlook on its beliefs or even an understanding of the historical birth of Christianity itself. I'm unimpressed.
Agreed, sister White always said, if people studied their bible, there would have been no need for her. I've come to the conclusion, people want to be spoon feed their religion and would rather go with the popular view then the truth.
This needs to be pinned💯
He tried to be fair, and on some points he was correct, but maybe he should interview a SDA or two before speaking on it.
So is your opinion.🤨
@@kevint.2706 The New Testament explicitly says both not to pass judgement on keeping any sabbath day or feasts or what people eat whether just vegetables or meat, and that people hold different days in higher regard.
@@therockstar17 Sabbath Days is what the text says, not Sabbath day, big difference.
I'm a Seventh-Day Adventist pastor and I really appreciate this video. In every denomination you will find extremists and individuals who don't really know what they believe. Seventh-day Adventist actually believe that there will be a sunday law instituted right before the second coming of Jesus (Revelation 14) and at that specific time it will be a test of worship. I myself used to lean somewhat heavy toward the extreme side of the spectrum of Adventism. I realize now at this point in my journey with Jesus that the denomination does not teach salvation by plate(what we rat), parenting or anyting but Jesus. The problem is we are not in heaven yet and just like any other denomination it's not so much that we have to apologize for what the denomination's believes but how a church member misrepresented Jesus and the denomination. 🙏🏾
Seventh-day Adventist believe that there will be many people who faithfully kept Sunday and will be in heaven. We Believe they'll be three surprises in heaven the first is that we made it to heaven the second is that those who thought wouldn't be in heaven will be there and the 3rd surprise is that those who we thought would be there will not. God bless you both and your ministry 🙏🏾
Thanks for your honesty and humble opinions, I am researching different denominations as I'm looking for a new church. I haven't decided yet but those who represent their faith with honesty are enticing. 🙏🙏🙏
Brother there is no such thing as an "investigative judgement" that is heressy
Well Allen I don’t think we need to use feelings to get people to back down from their position, but instead use scripture. I believe the biggest issue with the Ellen G white community is that they isolate scripture instead of allowing scripture to interpret scripture and yes there’s a difference.
"Isolate scripture..."
Oh my goodness. This is so incredibly true. The number of denominations and believers who read Acts 20:7 as an excuse to or a commandment to keep the 1st day of the week while ignoring Acts 2:41-47 that show the apostles and disciples coming together to share a meal and talk Gospel every chance they got every day of the week. Or who cite 1 Corinthians 16:2 as dismissing the Sabbath ("On the first day of the week, each of you is to set something aside and save in keeping with how he prospers, so that no collections will need to be made when I come,") while dismissing Acts 18:1-4 which shows that Paul was teaching in the synagogue in Corinth during his ministry. Then they usually cite Colossians 2:16-17 ("Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.") while ignoring that the Colossians were Jews who kept the Sabbath and the argument (a couple verses down) was with ascetics who were condemning the Jews for keeping the Sabbaths and New Moons, and other feast days. The Sabbaths were feast days.
Many people search the scripture for verses they can use to reach their predetermined conclusion. They search the scripture, find a verse with a key word and that sounds good, then ignore everything around that verse and elsewhere in the Bible that give the context in which that verse is to be understood. They deceive themselves.
@@MrKook amen and Happy Sabbath
@@MrKook Amen!
16:30 …everlasting life/ everlasting punishment
“How can you interpret one as living forever and other as not living forever”
«For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.»
Romans 6:23 KJV
Punishment for sin = death
Everlasting punishment = everlasting death
From an annihilationist viewpoint (as I understand it), what doesn’t make sense is that people think sinners don’t die in hell but suffer eternally (eternal life). For example the verse above says that eternal life is a gift that comes with salvation. Everybody in hell will still be mortals. So how would they survive? Better yet, in hell you’re supposed to be completely cut off from God so how would someone who’s dependent on god to exist survive without His presence.
«Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.»
John 14:6 KJV
Jesus is the [only source of] life. Jesus told us he will only give eternal life to believers. Where do the sinners in hell get their eternal life from?
Doesn’t make sense to me.
Thank you brother for clearing this up. And speaking of original texts let's not forget that when the Bible says the lost will be burned "forever and ever" the same language is used to describe those burned in Sodom and Gomorrah.
It is my understanding that we are all eternal beings (our souls anyway) so after our flesh passes away, we either go to one place or the other.
According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.
The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).
The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).
@@riveroflife9956 Only God is eternal since to be eternal you must not have a beginning nor an end. Moreover, if every human soul was eternal by default why would God offer everlasting life as a reward?
I am an annihilationist (conditional eternalist) but it's not for the emotional reasons Alan Parr mentions. It is for the surprising lack of evidence in the Bible for eternal torture in hell. Jesus repeatedly describes hell as the second death and also mentions destruction. Please look at this issue in earnest, without strawmanning the opposition. I will submit to the goodness of God whether people are destroyed in hell or are tortured eternally. As it is, eternal torture has very little evidence in the scriptures. This is such an important topic. If annihilationism is true, then teaching eternal torture is slandering God likely costing us believers.
Jacob - Love you... here is the truth you are looking for brother!
It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.
The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).
The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).
right, and you see this issue falls down the line of what i think the root problem is - believing we have immortal souls or spirits. the belief that a part of you lives after your body dies necessitates a destination for that part to "live" until the resurrection. this necessity creates heaven and hell, or even purgatory. but again there is a severe lack of plain teaching for this to be true, considering its "what happens when a person dies"
the bible talks a lot about what happens when a person dies, and the only things you can interpret as implying a heaven and hell destination are parables, or ambiguous phrases which in context are not at all referring to the afterlife.
well said!
Suggestion: Seventh Day Adventists: Two things: Both foundational:
1) A person that wants to "discern" this group should examine carefully, BEFORE Ellen G. White to look at William Miller (Millerites). What they, what William Miller believed. What this belief or "Millerite" was founded on. Why? because Ellen G. White, - - Championed it forward after all the William Miller predictions turned out to be..well.. WRONG. And;
2) The era: Examine this era C.A.R.E.F.U.L.L.Y. - Simple. It's an "era" in history from 1781 to early 1820s that carries forward into a follow-on era, where:
* There's a shift in believing that an "education" was IN the literary classics (ie., Plato, Latin, The Bible, the Literary classics and studying them equated to an education - shifting over to the "sciences" - such as, Math, Chemistry, Engineering, Electricity, Astronomy, Medicine - in an era where the human body was sacro-sanct, so you did NOT open it to see "what" was "in" it.. and within this "shift" was greats like, Herschel, and Franz von Gruithuisen, who both with a new discovery of telescopes, saw man-made structures and roads, the evidence of human habitation...
...on the moon.
That people lived on the other planets in the Solar System, and Christian Literary persons wrote "Christian" literature that would claim there are over 21 trillion people living on the other planets in our solar system alone, and Joseph Smith with the Mormons grew up and was taught this was TRUE in school. Just like today, kids are taught a "Theory of Evolution" as the most truest thing to true, kids of 1780 to 1820 were taught that all the planets had people on them, even people living on the Sun.
Championed by Herschel - and most people know that name, just after 1835, with the "Great Moon Hoax" - where in New York City, in August and Sept. in "The Sun" Newspaper was printed a 5 part article how Herschel, with his assistant, and a new fangled telescope observed actual people, flying around like bats, dressed in tuxedos, and unicorns, cows and chickens all on the moon. People ate it up.
William Miller, and a later Ellen G. White which Seventh Day Adventism is based on MILLER - Mormons with Joseph Smith, a Later Charles Taze Russell with Jehovah's Witnesses, are all from this during, and post era..and the common held beliefs and discoveries carry over and embed in it.
Not in the scriptures. Rather, is rooted in William Miller. Ellen G. WHite: is rooted in what William Miller taught, she just continued it - much like the "Theory of Evolution" which was taught verbatim by who Charles Darwin studied under, and during this generation where everybody believed people lived on the moon, was TOTALLY rejected -
The point is, simple. Examine the Root of Seventh Day Adventists. You'll find quickly the root of it is not Jesus, just as the root of Mormonism is not Jesus..just like the foundation of Jehovah's Witnesses is Charles Taze Russell and his fascination with the "Pyramid at Geeza" - and predictions - and that is the KEY to all three. PREDICTIONS - the fad of the day in all three.
NONE of them are correct theology. Mormons will tell you plain as day, they no longer believe what the founding fathers said, as later prophets have rescinded them, and now they just believe in Jesus, so they are the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-Day Saints - when all they have is a different definition of "God" "Jesus" "Salvation" "Exhaltation" and "Atonement" - the same words Christians use, just with a different definition for each of those words -and this gives them the right to call themselves Christian.
The Seventh Day Adventists has a like claim. But I have seen and know Mormons that GOD called out of it (see "The Tanners" and "Micah Wilder and his Testimony" or just listen to 7th Day Adventists that were seeking the truth, just like Jehovah's Witnesses and God called them out.
Just like he did me with the Catholics..born and raised one-and you're not going to find the Jesus of the Bible in Catholic, either. Won't find him in William Miller or Ellen G. White - you'll find she's a common, of her day pilanderer of unfounded claims, a dime a dozen of her day.
None of it the gospel. That's what Seventh Day Adventism is founded on. Examine 1) William Miller 2) Examine 19th Century as an era and their common-held beliefs. It's difficult with 2), because academia quickly pulls from libraries later, proven falsehoods - and erases it. Read any of Herschel - what he claimed. The head of Astronomy, was like the father of Mathematics, Planc, who Albert Einstein was a Patent Clerk under - Von Gruithuisen was the Head of Astronomy, University of Germany who issued, world wide, his discovery of evidence of peoples and their structures all on the moon - and the whole scientific community just ate it up. Championed it, like a later today, champions a theory of evolution...til all the cards fall away.
William Miller is built into it. a house of Cards. So is Ellen G. WHite who championed William Miller and the "millerite" philosophies and beliefs. None of it Christian. Can't grow a banana and call it a watermelon.
I consider myself to be a non-denominational Christian. I don't cling whole-heartedly to any denomination. I watch Christian videos on youtube from multiple sources...such as RestoredCOG, BibleFlockBox, Cold-Case Christianity, Mike WInger, and more. I use multiple sources and look for two things:
1: Citing the bible, including the context. (No misinterpretation based on a quote out of context)
2: Agreement on a particular idea from the bible or in society.
I am not an expert, but this summer I plan on reading the Bible from cover to cover to see if I can get some insight for myself...rather than relying on others to tell me what the bible says.
As a Seventh Day Adventist the first thing I want to say is that I really love and appreciate both of these brothers and their ministries. I have been hugely blessed by them (especially Mike Winger). One thing people don’t seem to understand about SDA is that we are NOT credal. What I mean is that there is a lot of room for individual Bible study and for people to develop their own understandings of scripture. And even our official church doctrines (fundamental beliefs) have evolved as our understanding of scripture has evolved. So we are a church body of INDIVIDUALS. That’s why you talk to 10 different SDA people and ask the same question you will get at least 8 different (though probably similar) answers. I have always used the Bible to develop my theology, and Mrs. White is a supplemental reading to gain some insight into certain topics, similar to the way I would read the writings of C S Lewis or N T Wright. I think people get weirded out by the fact that we affirm her gift of prophecy. We just believe she was a deeply devoted Christian woman who God used to start a movement in the body of Christ. A movement back to our roots. A movement that aimed to finish what the reformers started. A movement that wanted to affirm sola scriptura to its end and disregard the traditions of over 1,000 years of apostasy that the Catholic Church propagated. Things like Sunday worship at the expense of sabbath keeping. We don’t believe there’s anything wrong with Sunday church attendance. But we believe if you neglect the sabbath you are violating the 4th commandment. So we strive to honor the law of God. We do it imperfectly, as with the other 9. But we do our best. We DON’T believe Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. We believe there will come a TIME YET FUTURE when there will be ENFORCED Sunday worship. At that point it will become a salvational issue. Because it will THEN be a clear choice of serving God and His law or serving man and his law.
I would like to see Pastor Mike do a spot on all the scriptures in the Bible that support Sunday worship. In fact, show me the text that the ten commandments law has somehow been "satisfied" by the death of Him Who spoke that law from Sinai. Apart from Ellen White's testimony I know my Bible well enough to argue every one of the 28 fundamental beliefs. You cannot, however, prove she was a false prophet. She only talks about Jesus continually. No other writer points to Christ like she does. I don't have any problem believing every word Isaiah said. Why would I have any problem believing what she said as a messenger from God? The Sabbath is a blessing, not a curse. It is the fourth commandment and the only one which identifies God as Creator. As to that confusing assessment I'm listening to, obviously tried to do his homework, I just pray, listen to a Revelation Seminar from Doug Batchelor or some of Walter Veith's testimonies. Without knowing us, you are just slandering us and misrepresenting the Character of God. Go lad I heard him say that we agreed more than we disagreed...do your homework!!
I feel like Pastor Allen is mostly offended, and didn't read enough. I think he needs to understand that in EVERY religion people will have different opinions on "debatable" topics, like for example the sabbath. I keep the sabbath, but my keeping the sabbath won't look like everyone else's, and that comes from your relationship with God and conviction from the Holy Spirit. Although I would say some of our SDA members can be quite rude on this topic, and just say things to show that they are different or more "holy" which feels a bit pharisee like to me. I just pray that we all understand every religion has its differences, and it's ok because we are Men and not God. We have to seek Him first and keep seeking Him daily and He will lead us to the truth. We should never think we are all knowing, and pastors should be able to admit that they've preached things wrong and that their opinion has changed. Happy sabbath from Portugal Skylar!
@@imariapassao hello from Tennessee and happy sabbath to you as the Sabbath hours are approaching here! Sabbath is my favorite day of the week! I completely agree with everything you said. I think sometimes people scratch the surface of some of some of our church doctrines and immediately disregard them before fully studying them out. I think this is especially true in the “investigative judgement” doctrine as that one is so unique to our church. I think most people begin to look at it and jump to the conclusion (as Allen did here) that we teach that Jesus’ atonement wasn’t finished at the cross. Or another way of saying it is that they think we believe that we aren’t saved “yet” and there is still some work that Jesus is doing in order to atone for our sin. But in fact that not what we teach at all. We just acknowledge that the work
Of Jesus was typified in the work of the sanctuary of the Hebrews and that the sacrifice of the lamb or “the atonement for the sins of the people” was only ONE part of that work. We acknowledge that the day of atonement has its fulfillment in the ministry of Christ as well and that that is what is now being done. This is not the “atonement for sin” which was accomplished on the cross, but it’s actual removal from or “cleansing” from existence which is accomplished on the day of atonement. That’s my bare bones explanation anyway. It’s biblical. This isn’t something we get from Ellen White. Allen wants to say “it is finished” as if that verse refutes what we believe. But in fact it affirms what we believe. I would like to challenge him to explain WHAT was finished on the cross. Certainly he can’t mean EVERYTHING was finished at the cross or what are we still doing here on earth, still dealing with sin over 2,000 years later. So WHAT was finished?…..The atonement for sin. Not the end of the sin problem. At the very least they should acknowledge that we have ground to stand on biblically and then just agree to disagree. Why do we get labeled as a cult for such teachings? Why can calvinists and non calvinists agree to disagree and still call each other brothers and sisters in Christ even though they have polar opposite views on the atonement, but when we have an another different view on this topic, we don’t get that same level of grace. It seems so hypocritical to me. They are so quick to lump us in with the “cult” word and it is very frustrating to me as I stand upon the authority of scripture to establish and back up every belief I hold as an SDA.
@@blueticks8423 that is very true... I feel like even SDA’s won’t agree with everything you know. I think they didn’t classify SDA as a cult though in here tho
@@terryrice3177 What the Bible Says
The Bible counters much of what Ellen G. White taught and what her church teaches today.
In the matter of the sabbath, the New Testament clearly shows Christians worshiping together on Sunday rather than Saturday. Not only that, but Romans 14 teaches that each person must be convinced in his own mind about the day they observe as the Lord’s Day; if the sabbath was binding on all Christians today, this passage would be meaningless.
In contrast to White’s teaching on the eternal destiny of those who do not know the Lord, the Bible teaches that hell is real, that it is eternal, and that in hell God’s wrath is poured out in conscious, everlasting punishment. John the Baptist spoke of Jesus, saying, “His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12). Jesus himself spoke of hell saying, “if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire” and “these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” (Mark 9:43, Matthew 25:46). And in the epistles, Paul warned, “They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might” (2 Thessalonians 1:9). Only by deliberately twisting the Scriptures can anyone deny the terrifying reality that hell is real and that those who do not know the Lord will be there to face his wrath forever. (from @Challies)
Please, my brother Winger...do your own investigation. Read what you can of sister White's writings...compare it diligently with Scripture & see if they reflect each other. Mr. Parr hasn't done a deep study of what we believe or sister White's writings, to have made a personal judgement on them or us & that's just not fair.
I really appreciate you taking the time to do a more thorough study on what sister White has written, before doing any videos on them. You've shown yourself to be very humble and slow to speak and eager to listen. If Mr. Parr would have shown that & done a more diligent study of sister White's writings, he would have seen so much more than Sunday being the mark of the beast(...which WILL happen, but not until a law has been set up to force worship on Sunday, a day that God never made holy or sanctified; if you look for what the Catholic church documents say about the Sabbath & what their mark of authority is & what the pope is promoting now, due to global warming, you will see...please, bro!...), he would have read her write that a majority of God's people are in other churches & urging us to diligently, wisely & prayerfully, cast the seeds of present truth throughout every type of ground, so, when they hear it, they will come! I believe that you are of the "good ground"! (...Matthew 13 / Mark 4 / Luke 8...)
Revelation 14:6-9 is the present truth for this time! These messages are what we are supposed to be proclaiming! i've seen SO MANY videos trying to figure out what the mark of the beast is, without any mention or seemingly any study, of WHO or WHAT the Beast is! it would be so very clear if THAT was studied and realized!
I didn;'t even know what a Seventh-day Adventis WAS , before i joined into the movement, bro. I was looking for truth, because there were some things about God, that i couldn't quite understand & get down with. What i'd been taught, growing up, just didn't jive with certain things...i couldn't reconcile them. As the Spirit lead me to truth that made rational sense to me, i found myself in the SDA movement(church). Everything makes logical sense now, bro! As Peter told Christ, in John 6:68, "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life." I should be doing SO MUCH MORE TO SHARE!!!
MUCH LOVE BROTHER! I'm not as good an expositor of truth as Doug Bachelor, Ivor Myers, Walter Veith or Randy Skeete, but, if anyone hollers at me, by the grace of God, i will seek to explain the SDA understandings of Scripture! ( John 10:16, 27 ) Blessings to each of you & Happy Thanksgiving holiday & a daily walk in thankfulness!
sorry SO long...! :-/
How do you interpret this?
Heb 8:13 - In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
@@toddcote4904 Hi brother 😊 I read the chapters leading up to that and after that relating to the old covenant. From the language used, It was referring to the ceremonial law, not 10 commandments. I believe that the 10 commandments stays forever and is summarized by the 2 laws Jesus gave (love God supremely and your neighbor as yourself - even Moses mentioned this summary I believe in Deuteronomy). We need the 10 commandments because it convicts us of sin (with the guidance of the Holy Spirit) and helps us realize our need of a Savior - Jesus. Then and only then does the law not condemn us because Jesus is in our hearts, helping us to live the Holy lives we cannot live on our own. This is the new covenant. Without the 10 commandments, we cannot fully appreciate the new covenant. And part of the 10 commandments is the Sabbath. So if the Sabbath is a definite day that God sanctified, blessed and made holy and if we (after receiving adequate light) not keep it, then we cannot realise the blessings of the new covenant. God does give everyone more light based upon how we keep that which is entrusted to us so if Saturday is the true Sabbath, we dishonor God and sin against Him. Jesus living and working in us will help us get more Biblical truth and follow it in order for us to realise the blessings of the new covenant.
@@manasavuibaubatiwale3593 Amen! That explanation was very rational and well said, brotha! I would like to add this text to support your insight, bro!
"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:... "~ Hebrews 8:9, 10 ((...from an Old Testament prophecy in Jeremiah 31:33- ...))
Those cerimonial laws, were said to be "against us" (...Colossians 2:14...) & later in Hebrews, said to not be able to convert the heart. (...Hebrews 9:9...) Whereas the Bible claims things such as this of the 10 Commandments, "Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. "~ Psalm 119:35 ~ Rom 7:12 & "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul:...If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments."~ Psalm 19:7 ~ 1 John 5:2
Have to get back to my earthly job.
Manasa Vuibau Batiwale, blessings for your faithfulness in sharing, what ONLY God could have revealed to you, bro. Let's continue to love & praise Him for His goodness & mercy! I love y'all! Later...
@@From_darkness2Life yo! Thanks for the Bible verses fam, especially that part about the Israelites coming out of Egypt (just learnt about that)! All glory to God as you rightly said. I'm still learning and studying but this surely is a topic that is fascinating 💯 All the best with your earthly job and God be with you and your family 🙏
@@manasavuibaubatiwale3593
When you get a chance, could you cite the verse or verses that seperate the covenant made at Sinai into parts, whereby only the ceremonial parts were made obsolete?
Heb 8:9 - “not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD.
When God brought them out of Egypt didn't He make just ONE covenant which He wrote on stones and which are called the tables of THE COVENANT? And isn't this the covenant that they did not keep, breaking the laws of the covenant, especially those laws written on the stones which were in the ark of THE COVENANT?
The story of the Great Disappointment of October 22, 1844 shows us that our expectations of the future do not always come true. Even the best theory fails. Mistakes are not bad so long as we learn from them. In this sense, Adventism is not false. From it we learn something about the danger of proceeding beyond what we know.
Ellen White was the Great Disappointment.
@healinghumanity1782 Did Ellen White communicate with her dead husband?
@@aussie.cookie no.
@@goofball111The Great Disappointment will be if we are lost when Jesus comes to catch us breaking His Law 😢😮
@@Truthteller58-z3c We all are law breakers! We all are sinners! That is why there is Grace
Yes please brother Mike! Do a study video on EGW’s writings (and her background and identity) please! Praise be to God for this Much needed discussion for clarity and discipleship… I needed it.😘
Allen says in this video that he’s done several videos on the SDAs.
@@tourmaline7385 yes but not specifically on EGW teachings and background :)
@@MyBahaar Why don't you read her own writings and get the source for yourself?
Go to Academy Apologia on UA-cam . There are many videos about EGW. Not just hearsay, Jim will show you EGW'S books and pages and compare to Bible scripture .
@BibleTalk101 If she is the messenger the lesser light why do you need someone to clarify what she wrote. Ask the men she plagiarized 90 % of her writings from.
16:00 I'm not seeing the problem here. A smart look at the work done by people like Chris Date, amongst others, the exegesis isn't in any sense weak.
Indeed, eternal destruction is an eternal punishment. Annihilation isn't a temporary state, its forever, you're never going to exist again. The idea that you don't FEEL that destruction forever is missing the point of cosmic capital punishment. If the point isn't deliberate sadistic torture, but actual just punishment, then the eternality of the second death isn't saying it takes forever to die... that would mean you're not actually dying at all. It's just another form of eternal life, just a tortured life. I think it makes more sense to say that judgment is FINAL, and when God destroys the heavens and earth and makes all things new, that there's no room for evil ANYWHERE in his perfected universe.
And note.
This isn't hell. It's the Lake of Fire.
According to Jesus people do suffer apart from God in Hades, they don't enjoy the comfort of awaiting the work of God in Abraham's Bossom, ie: paradise.
They're instead cast into outer darkness where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth.
He'll is bad. There's suffering because awaiting judgment without God's comfort, that's He'll. But hell ends. It sssys so right there in Revelation. The sea and Hell gave up their dead and they are judged, and then hell itself is thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Some takes on annihilation make more biblical sense than ECT, but others are less biblical than ECT.
I've been an SDA all my life and never had a church put Ellen G. White over the Bible. We were always taught that she was a servant of God. I suppose I am part of the Modern SDA church as Allen Parr puts it.
With due respect to the SDA... Why do you give so much importance to the Sabbath? Is it because God commanded through Moses? If you are so bend down on keeping the sabbath, then keep the laws that come with it too. For e.g., Exodus 31:15 says.....Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
How do you apply this law that comes with the sabbath in this present generation? By putting them to death if they defile it? And if you dont do so then you have not obeyed the law of Moses and the SDA church is guilty according to the law.
But as for me, I thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who through the finished work of the cross gave me salvation and eternal life not by my works less i should boast but by His grace. Surrender your life to Christ, be filled with the Holy Spirit and you will live a victorious life. Hope God will bless you all with these words. Amen
Everlasting punishment doesn't mean you have to be aware of it. The death penalty is everlasting punishment. You never get out of that punishment. You stay dead forever.
are you saying there is no hell? and you just stay dead?
@@juliabrooks6556 yes
Exactly. Also he’ll and dead is destroyed forever. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
@@mspeachie268 And you can't really get more clearer than John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not "PERISH" but have eternal life, and Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is "DEATH"; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. No where does it say you will be tormented in hell fire for eternity.
@@juliabrooks6556 They way to look at it would be, if God is love and Sin = Suffering than wouldn't God put those in suffering to sleep, the same as you would for a pet who was in pain. You don't put your pet down to make them suffer, you put them down to end their suffering.
This is so fun! I’m a “Seventh Day Adventist” but the funny part is that I don’t read any of Ellen’s books just because I’ve always been told that the only book you really need to read is the Bible… so then why do we need these other ones? Because they supposedly share deeper insight and we’re “inspired from God?” Some of the things that are in one clash with the other tho. Oof.
Also my dad is totally that second type of SDA, the more extreme one. He’s likes repeatedly telling me to read Ellen’s books and how she was a prophet but I don’t really like to read (other than the Bible), so I’ve never really felt the need to look into her books.
Also also, I had no idea that Adventists had all of these extra rules and beliefs! I guess I’m a bad SDA, lol. I’m glad for that tho. Let’s me see us in ways that others do and im doing more and more research into learning more on what the Bible really says so I’m def open to changing my beliefs but only to the truth of Scripture. I like Mikes videos :) thanks y’all.
Update: I’m no longer an SDA. I don’t know what I am.
@@nicetry620 nice spam.
Dear June, Let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truths, I was a Seventh Day Adventist for many years , not because I didn’t see their false teachings which I did not incorporate in my beliefs, but because of their keeping the biblical Sabbath, their healthy teachings and many kind people and friends I had in it, now I do not belong to their denomination but I keep the good things I found with them . I pray for them as I do for other churches members that have non biblical beliefs but are still good friends. I feed my soul with wonderful sermons from many theologians in the Lingonier Ministries and other gospel preaching ministers so I feel saved and secure in the presence of our dear Savior Jesus and LORD.. God bless you with His grace and love.
@@olgaburgos7780 so you found the Sabbath and health message helpful? What parts were unbiblical?
You aren’t an Adventist. There is no Adventist demonic cult without Ellen White. Ellen White is Adventism. If you are an Adventist cultist you signed a document before you were baptized into the demonic cult. To join the cult you must swear you believe and support the fundamental beliefs of the cult. One belief is prophecy is the sign of the last days remnant church and Ellen White is the proof Adventists are the only members of God’s only last days remnant church. Most likely you don’t know the fundamental beliefs of your disgusting cult nor can you explain them. You are laughing now but you aren’t saved and eternal torment is a long time.
Adventist teaching is the writings ( she wrote none of her books) of Ellen White are an ongoing and authoritative source of truth good for teaching and correction. Ellen White is Adventism. You aren’t an Adventist and you are not a Christian
The title may need a little rearranging brother 🤣! Other wise I Love the videos! God has truly used you to help me and so many in our walks and I’m extremely grateful for your ministry! God bless you brother!
I really appreciate and enjoy most of Allen’s and Mike’s content! I’m SDA and I appreciate Allen pointing out the things he agrees with our church. But a lot of this is not fully accurate. I would like to see him invite a strong Adventist theologian who can explain to you in depth what we believe. I also wished that Mike would have done his own research so that he could comment on these things. I find it weird for him to bring a non Adventist to talk about what SDA’s they believe. Doug Batchelor’s content on Amazing facts ministry actually explains a lot of what we believe. Still appreciate their ministries though!
I don't appreciate their leaven and uninformed gossip at all. A little leaven leavens the whole lump!
Without proper research and CITING LEGITIMATE SOURCES, which they easily could have done, they proceed to slander the SDA church, and their legions of groupies with itching ears also gobble it up as truth, without doing THEIR own research.
And we all know that gossip can go around the world before the truth can tie its shoes .
Laodicea is deadly, and we should appreciating it at all. These boys' behavior is NOT mature or Christian.
@joanarc7963 please give an example of a doctrine that is being thaught by the Seventh day Adventists that is not according to the Bible.
@@vaio4908Salvation by grace through faith. I never learned that in the SDA church.
Doug bachelor would claim both of these men are going to hell? Would you agree sister?
Can you explain what was not accurate?
"Everlasting punishment" could be referencing the fact that the death is permanent. I would encourage you to look up what the word "destroy" means
I believe hell is eternal separation from God, all that is good, and the chance to turn from sin and toward God. I agree, the (2nd death) is permanent but the soul lives eternally because it comes from God and cannot die. So, turning to or away from God has eternal consequences
@@cynthiah.a.2182 being eternally non existent is an eternal punishment. Also, Jesus said "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Mat 10:28). If God could only torment the soul in hell, why would Jesus say he could destroy it?
@@Jfloyd amen
@@Jfloyd My question, really, while I'm not saying it's WRONG or anything, is who actually sees eternal destruction as punishment? Just not existing gives NO punishment. There is no suffering there, which the Bible does give evidence of. If you cannot feel, see, taste, or ANYTHING, then you cannot feel pain, misery or think of anything bad. It simply becomes nothingness. Now, that's not to say that there is or is not destruction, and I would hope for total annihilation, but I see more evidence against it, and more logic behind other beliefs, than this idea.
@@avriel6903 Hi Avriel, I appreciate your reply. It seems as if my focus on "eternal non existence" has caused some misconception here. I do not believe there will be no pain suffered by the destroyed souls, only that it will not be an eternal suffering -because the words the bible uses for for hell "perish", "destroy", and "death" require a non-existent conclusion by definition. I do not know how long the pain will be suffered, but even if it is only the pain of knowing you will not be in heaven (Luke 13:28), it is still something. The parable of the rich man (Luke 16) tells us there will be agony in hell (verses 23-24), but it doesn't speak to it being an eternal agony.
Assuming, however, the burning will be instant and without pain (which is not the cornerstone of any annihilationist belief, nor is it mine), non-existence itself is DEFINITELY a punishment. Because many (atheists, mostly) believe they will be non-existent after death, they may not feel the gravity of it now, but it will definitely come as a realization after the judgement.
If someone were to punish you on earth with a painless execution (maybe, a painless lethal injection) as a repercussion for a sin you committed, wouldn't you consider that to be a punishment - maybe, even, a harsh one (depending on the sin you commited)? You would consider it a punishment because you would know you could have alternatively went on living your life. In the same way, when everyone realizes they had the option of eternal life on judgment day, eternal death (non existence) will become an obvious punishment.
As a side note, I did not come to annihilationism as a consequence of my upbringing, but by a desire to prove eternal conscious torment through biblical means. I found there are so few verses where eternal torment can be implied (Rev 14:10 and Rev 20:10; there are great explanations for these) and so many verses where non-existence is meant clearly by the words being used (Romans 6:23, Mat 10:28, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10, and so many more).
I’ll give you everything, with a slight caveat that some evangelicals do hold a similar view of hell (e.g. John Stott). Eternal punishment is, thus, eternal in effect. Much like Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed with eternal fire (as the NT describes it). That fire isn’t still burning, but is forever in effect. 👍🏻
The people are burning in hell today . Of course the fire in the cities burnt out, not the unrepentant sinners.
@@janetdavidson8798 you think people are in hell prior to the judgment?
@@johnmarkharris if they died unsaved they are in a holding part of hell. The lake of fire is what the Bible calls the second death. The body itself is asleep in the grave .
@@johnmarkharris the unsaved will face the Great White Thorne judgement .
wow!! I'm so dissapointed.....
I follow both of your channels but.. wow!! this is sad...
I pray that you keep researching and finding more and more truth... :/
I'm praying for you brothers.. God bless...
“As an SDA… are you going to have the boldness to say I believe in the Bible even if it diverts from EGW.” - Allen Parr. LOL. YES Allen! Almost EVERY Adventist would say a resounding YES! EGW herself says consistently a resounding yes! That’s the point of why most SDA’s are not hung up on every word from EGW, why she herself isn’t, and why you and Winger shouldn’t be either.
Same question to you Parr - will you have the boldness to believe in a scriptural understanding of hell and Gods love, and a Christian’s relationship to the Law (not salvific btw), even if your faithful study of scripture (including the Greek and Hebrew exegesis of which all our scholars are trained in… even if your study leads you to accept something other than you currently understand? Even if it looks too SDA for your taste? Honest question.
How can the wages of sin be death if one never dies? To burn for eternity means you never die. According to Rev 20:14 even hell itself is destroyed.
The 2nd Death
I'm a seventh day adventist and Mike winger is one of my favorite Christian apologist on youtube. I urge you Sir to please make a video about Seventh Day Adventist or Ellen G white based on your research. I'm pretty sure your verdict won't be bias. Praying !
Not an SDA, but I do get spiritually fed by adventist pastors, evangelists & programs. I also tune into many other Christian channels. I leave certain doctrines & emphases out, as the Holy Spirit of God leads. Pastor Mike is one of my favs; Pastor Allen, too! 🕊👑
SDA's is cult thing.
@@dwightwilliams311 No, it isnt. Its all biblical. Challenge me on any of their teachings. HeII, soul sleep, sabbath, pork, investigative judgment, little horn, the 1st and second beast, wh0re of babylon, antichrist, or anything else you would like to discuss. All our teachings come straight from the bible
@@xintimidate Really? Let's start on pork. Miss White's teaching on pork makes Jesus a lier then if it is so whe Jesus said ALL foods are clean. Mark 7:18-19.
@@dwightwilliams311 Or perhaps, the more likely outcome you are taking that verse out of context to fit your narrative. Read the whole chapter it even gives the context. Was Jesus eating pork? No, he was eating with unclean hands. And in Matthew 15:20 which is relaying the same story Jesus says "These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them". Also, that (thus he declared all foods clean) was added in by the translators and is not in the original manuscripts. So, next verse or topic.
I am not a Seventh day Adventist but I do observe the sabbath. It truly is a blessing to dedicate a day to God and do nothing else but rest. We truly need that especially with today's "grind till you die "culture. As always love your videos Mike!
True. There's a lot of benefits to detaching.
No, you don't observe the sabbath. I also have a greater rest than 1 day will ever do! I hopw you do too. But nobody in the modern day observes the 1 day shabbat.
@@brogadierthethird7790 Messianic Jews, Orthadox Church, Sabbath Christians, and Sunday-Sabbath Obligation Catholics would disagree
@@ri3m4nn
If you worship on Sundays as your Sabbath, please know that you're in violation of the 4th Commandment found in Exodus 20v8-11.
Sunday Worship was created by Satan to confuse God's people. Read Revelation 12v12 and Revelation 12v17.
For more information concerning Sunday Worship, please watch "The Mark of the Beast" by Hope Through Prophecy
@@brogadierthethird7790 Nobody in modern day observing the Sabbath is of Satan.
The professed savior of Christianity, declared the Sabbath was made for MAN, not Jews, not Israelites, not geeks, but MAN. Can't get around what your own savior declared.
It's in Mark. Look it up.
Actually read your own Bible and know it DOESN'T JIVE, with the current crop of professing Christianity.
#2 is foreign to me and I'm a Seventh-day Adventist! Mr. Parr is totally misrepresenting SDAs.
lol he said you’d say that 😂
SDAs still rightly observe Saturday as God's lawful day of rest, unlike most so-called "protestants", who keep defending false Roman Catholic doctrine to this day, whilst claiming to stand against it. Sunday worship is the mark of Roman authority; if you keep Sunday "holy", you're siding with Satan.
This is the problem with some people within the SDA, you guys are vitriolic towards people who have different viewpoints in a very legalistic sense.
@@averyhaughwout3697 That's not being vitriolic; it's just telling the truth like it is, but I suppose that many protestants who stretch and twist the Bible in desperate attempts to justify their support for Roman Catholic doctrines would be very triggered by the truth, just like the Pharisees in Jesus's time. Upholding Biblical truth, which includes the Ten Commandments, of which keeping Saturday holy is one, is not being legalistic. Jesus said "if you love me, keep my commandments". Modern woke anti-biblical "christians" cry about legalism whenever the laws that they relish to break are brought up.
For crying out loud. The disciples themselves after the death and resurrection of Jesus, met together on the first day of the week to break bread. Sunday in other words. I’m not aware of any Catholic Church at that time. They called it the Lords day. What does it matter? Wednesday will work just as well. But how about just keep all seven days a week holy. If a person gets very sick on a Saturday, they will be very happy to find out that the hospitals are not following the Sabbath. Or are they? Think about it.
@@kciwner God makes the rules; not you or any other human. Plqcing Man on the same level as God is the basis of Satan's ideology. Also, breaking bread on any day of the week does not mean people are setting that day aside as holy. Abandon satanic ideology whilst you can; you won't survive Judgment Day otherwise.
Happy thanksgiving day sda believe in rhe ten commandments ok thats what God says and Jesus if you loves me keep my commandments i don't care about this white lady said i care abou God says
Did the apostles have it wrong?
@@Zilam if people want to erase the commandments because they feel like it well they are going to be erased from the book of life
@@undertakerg1827 you didn't answer my question. And no one is erasing the commandments. Acts 15, Romans 14, Colossians 2 etc are all erasers by SDA claiming there is a mandate to meet and worship on the Sabbath. That simply not true. The command only says to have the day set apart for rest. The rest of scripture never states that day must be the day the people gather to learn, worship, give alms, etc. And this enforced by the chapters I gave you above. One thing you should worry about, and this is why Christians reject SDA as a non-Christian cult in the same vein as Christian science, JWs and Mormons, is that the mandate for a work flies in the face of Grace. It is by Jesus' work that we are saved, not our own. So to sugges that our works could even match up to his in terms of saving us is to profane Christ and mock his death on the Cross. You should repent and leave this cult and follow Christ.
I suffer a woman not to teach or have authority over men.
-Apostle Paul
Ellen G White, female leader teacher 7th day Adventists.
There have been female prophets in the Bible. Prophets speak on behalf of God and thus have teaching authority. No contradiction there.
@@truthmatters7573 Prophets with more personally written books then there are Scriptures? Show me one female or male prophet in the Bible that’s sold personally written books they claimed were God breathed as Ellen White has. Books that aren’t even apart of canonized scripture. So Ellen Whites words that are additional from scripture are considered infallible and authoritative ? Wow. Unreal. She’s like the Pope to SDAs. Sad how strong Satan works in religion. Heresy how exalted Ellen White is in the SDA church. They hold the Great Controversy in one hand and the Bible in the other. Even after all of Ellen Whites writings have been exposed as heresy and false teachings. She has never had a single prophecy come to pass. Just another extension of the Great Disappointment with the Millerites.
@@ApostolicEchoes That's a red herring. God is free to use their prophets as he sees fit. There's no logical or biblical requirement to speak or write less than a certain amount of words. The only relevant test is Scripture.
It makes a lot of sense for a prophet to make use of the technology available in their time to amplify the reach of the prophetic word, so because of the printing press, postal service, steam engine, and the better means of preservation it's feasible to write that many books for a prophet in the 19th century and for us to still have them. Not all prophetic books have been preserved either. Books are mentioned in the bible that aren't actually included in the Bible (not the book of Enoch) .
The problem is, many people are happy to make bad arguments just cuz they disagree with something. I'm just pointing out how bad the arguments are. Unfortunately I'm some circles there's still a strong bias against SDAs and it shows in uncharitable arguments and interpretations of their beliefs and writings.
Here's a mind-breaker for you. Ellen G White wasn't the only one, she was the last of 3 total to receive visions. The first two being William Foy and Hazen Foss.
@@SkyKingAzure yo!!! That's crazy but true... Heard of the story.. A bit sad though... God wanted to use men but they refused so He used a woman (Mrs. White)...
That Protestants keep Sunday holy "because Jesus rose on the first day" is the biggest non sequitur that persists in the minds of many. Firstly introduced by the early church to ease the simple minded of any objection that could rise from the compromise between Christianity and paganism (Sun worship), the esoteric position is rather:
"The (Catholic) Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her Founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter, the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant."
(“The Question Box,” The Catholic Universe Bulletin (August 14, 1942))
Etc..
Putting people in mortal fear of attending other churches when they meet on Sunday was her trick to keep them in the cult. She isolated people to keep them under control.
Nah, we used the investigative judgement for that not the sabbath. Do you even know how hard it is to scare people to church when you don't believe in an everlasting hell??? We had to think of something :P
Interesting view. Its not a cult though.
All I have to say is that the ten commandments says the seventh day. It's a Saturday. The ten commandments were meant to stay forever. So why the sudden change? Didnt a catholic dude change the day and the other religions followed?
Yes, bingo
We are not under that covenant to keep a day.
@@shellyblanchard5788 so why do we keep all the other 9 commands? Didn't God also write the 4th commandments with His finger and speak it with His mouth as he did with all other 9?
Colossians 2:16-17 will be very helpful in this conversation.
Should read the whole book while you're there :)
To answer your question, no. The earliest Christians in the book of Acts began meeting on "the Lord's Day" for teaching and fellowship. The concept of a sabbath rest and focus on worship rather than work became attached to that day. If you think it matters that it is only for a certain day, then go ahead.
Happy Thanksgiving pastor Mike, God bless you.
Acts 17:30 KJV - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
There will be people saved who never had the opportunity to learn of the Sabbath truth and of God's will.
God winks at their ignorance, but will not excuse wilful blindness.
Idk I’ve always felt that God and Jesus made it very clear about his Sabbath. The only one of the Ten Commandments the Lord gave us that tells us too remember.. he told us to remember my sabbath and keep it holy.. so when Constantine made Christianity the main religion in Rome he allowed people to choose between Saturday and Sunday. And gradually people started to pick Sunday. But Jesus says if you love me you will follow his teachings and keep the Lords commandments. I just feel like because it says Remember my Sabbath and keep it holy almost as if he knew we’d forget..
"The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked." (1Jn 2:6 )
The Pope knows about the Sabbath, but can hardly lose face now. Sad really.
@@sandrabentley8111 not only does the pope know about the sabbath but it was the Roman Catholic Church who officially changed the Sabbath from Saturday into Sunday.. there’s a lot and I mean a lot of things the Roman Catholic Church does and doesn’t do that really truly bothers me.. but I won’t get into all of that if anyone wants to talk to me about it (especially if you’re catholic) I’ll be more than happy too have a mature and open minded discussion/debate on it!
@@nehemiahnelson1426 I understand.
I am VERY CURIOUS to find out from Allen Parr, WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST. He suggested what it is NOT, but I have not heard him on what it IS.
I grew up in a cult that believed in only the KJV Bible and they would have non married ministers going out homeless 2x2 called “workers” (they would stay at homes of people within the cult) and we would look to them as the ultimate interpreter for the bible! I know how messed up it can all get! Instead of going directly to God for understanding we relied on “man”. I was taught that the Trinity was pretty much satanic. I understand the subtlety of deception especially being born into these cults. Jesus is the way the truth and the life.. NOT the cult I was brought up in. I can see how I was manipulated and controlled with fear pretty much my whole life! There was no freedom in Christ. There is a lot more to my story but God basically brought me out of the brainwashing after 30 years of my life! Praise God! 🙏 Jesus is mighty to save and the Holy Spirit is powerful to give proper revelation! I’m praying for all those people that are very mistaken and I love and want every soul to truly know God! Very interesting to learn about others beliefs.
Hey Ness, could you describe more of the cult, what it’s called or what other teachings were exclusive to it? I’m curious cause I’ve been raised with those kind of groups growing up.
@@deetwobird Hey there! The best name they are known for is the 2x2’s or “the truth”.It’s exclusive and they claim they are the one true “way” that Jesus established so they heavily emphasize their ministry is the only one that Jesus established. They meet in homes for Sunday and Wednesday “meetings”. They condemn church buildings. They have annual conventions for 4 days in the summer, usually on a family farm or a big property with all the facilities to host hundreds to thousands of people that come for them. They hold gospel meetings in a hall or school or wherever they can get that isn’t a church building where they preach their version of the gospel and use the living witness doctrine where they claim a person cannot be saved without hearing the gospel preached from the “workers” (preachers both men and woman). Heavy emphasis on looking and being separate from the world- women must not wear makeup, wear dresses and long skirts at all times, no jewelry.. basically look as plain as possible. And for men they don’t like facial hair and stylish hairstyles (not as much for the men to do). You cannot own a tv or drink at all. Basically live a very “pure” life. You are taught in a very deceptive way that Jesus is a pattern in which to live so you constantly strive to be a perfect example which you will never live up to. Many people within the cult have deep hidden secrets but as long as you look good on the outside and feel safe within the clutches of the control you don’t see, you can be free to live your pharisee life and judge and condemn others for not “looking” the part. Hope that explains it a bit better! Any other questions I’m happy to! There is a wonderful book by an Australian lady that left this cult and it’s called “Cult to Christ” and it was so helpful for me when I left!
@@Heaveniswaitingforyou that cult sure sounds like it has sda characteristics... Ellen G White is the truth stuff... I hear ya.
@@jeprodigalson792 those are radical SDA's, actual SDA's only see her writing as strictly supplementary and she herself said to always look towards the bible for the truth not her
@@yosemitenooni3900 she said that but what did the sda “foundational” leadership do? They joined her interpretations over the interpretations given to us by the apostles.
So if sda doctrine is corrupted with a false prophets interpretations and messsages from whatever spirit she was listening to…. Wouldn’t you say the denomination is putting their Christian patrons at a disadvantage? Doing one thing when Christ tells us to follow his commands?
Have you tried interviewing a real Seventh-day Adventist? That's the best way to find out what Adventists believe. Try Doug Batchelor from Amazing Facts.
I'm in talks with Mike to do an interview.
I'm not SDA, but you "Protestants" need to protest a little bit further from your Mother Church of Rome!
The Sunday worship is not the "mark" but it's pure and simple disobedience to the Word, even from the 10 Words on which all the Torah is based. Scripture makes it clear what "sin" is:
"Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law." (1Jn 3:4)
Obviously, this is not man's law, it's Yahweh's Law/Torah. There is no Scripture that changes the Sabbath and even when you check the Texts that are traditionally translated "first day of the week," here's what you find:
The Greek text simply reads "μίαν σαββάτων" (mian sabbaton) which translates literally as 'one of the Sabbaths...' You'll notice even the KJV has added (italicized) the word 'day' into the text wherever this phrase appears:
"... the firstG3391 [day] of the week...G4521"
Normally, EVERY time the word "σαββάτων" appears it is ALWAYS translated as "Sabbath" yet NOT in these Texts where Sunday worship is trying to be supported.
Normally, EVERY time "μία" is used it is ALWAYS translated as "one" (and in fact there is a word for "first" in Greek) but NOT in these Texts where religions deliberately try to force the "first [day] of the week" translation.
The whole thing reeks of RCC deis Solis worship and when you read the quotes from their own history, you are left in no doubt:
“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason...The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance... The author of the Sunday law... is the Catholic Church.” Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.
“The Sunday...is purely a creation of the Catholic Church.” American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.
“Sunday...is the law of the Catholic Church alone...” American Sentinel (Catholic), June 1893.
“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles...From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.
“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work Lawlessness!" (Matt 7:23)
(Lawlessness: Greek - ἀνομίαν (anomia) illegality, that is, violation of LAW)
Keeping the Sabbath not to be saved, but because you are saved
But if you are saved but still willingly refuse the given evidence to keep it you are in direct rebellion
@Zero Down you do know that's not the "kind" of works God called us from right
@Zero Down(sorry if my response comment sounded unwelcoming) though my friend, keeping the Sabbath Holy is apart of the first half of the Commandments (5-5). That Jesus summed up as "Love the lord your God with all your mind soul and strength "
So you would be loving God if you kept his day holy..
And yes we rest in Christ's finished work, though out of *Love* we still keep his commandments
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
@@veritasmuy2407 you said: "there is no rebellion "
But there is
It's like saying, "I willingly choose to not follow God's law, but it's not rebellion because rebellion doesn't exist, so does the law"
Paul said: "without the law there are no transgressions"
(No law, no wrath of God, but there is)
And there are.. he couldn't be contradicting himself.. because sin still exists
*"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. ["* 1 john 5
*What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”*
Romans 7:7
If read in context, Paul was stating how the law and faith work together and not one against the other..
By saying if others lived by the law alone for salvation and got it through their works of such, that then would make faith nullified.. because Abraham didn't have the law in stone to follow, (though he had them written on his heart through the *faith* and covenant he made with *Hebrews 10:16*)
Hence making the point he consistently made in his writings that people aren't saved by works but by grace through faith..
Yet they still kept the law, not to be saved, but because they were, hence the faith of Abraham..
Also if the law was made null then the adultery Abraham did wasn't *wrong* as God said it was.. but it was, As said by God as he is the standard of Goodness..
Also my friend, The law is not done away with, if so it wouldn't still be written on our hearts and Jesus would be lying when he said
*17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.*
Matthew 10: 17-19
@@truthrevealed7633 looks like you are being trolled by a few people. Your reasoning is sound.
@@techgurutoo Glory be to God my friend; the holy spirit for inspiring me to do so..
I'm praying they come to the terms of it being so.. and not look to strive but to have a sound discussion on this matter
The Ten Commandments were given to ISRAEL to show them they could not earn their way to Heaven. Jesus, Paul, and others used the commandments in that way: You can't keep these laws, so you are a sinner who desperately needs a Savior.
Of course most of the Ten are repeated in the New Testament as things we ought to obey. But the Sabbath commandment is clearly nullified for us Gentiles in the New Testament. For example:
"But now that you know God-or rather are known by God-how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you."
(Galatians 4:9-11)
Paul rebuked the Galatians for their legalism and for demanding that everyone obey the Sabbath. But Paul did not forbid observing the Sabbath. He only forbade the legalism.
"One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." (Romans 14:5)
"Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath." (Colossians 2:16)
"If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood-and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood-why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also." Hebrews 7:11-12
Hebrews 4:9. There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
@@MrKook that's pitiful. If you read the rest of the chapter, you'll see that our rest is _different_ from Israel's.
If you weren't SDA, you'd either be Mormon or JW. Because you like abusing verses and plucking them out of context.
@@FRN2013 before asserting what you have, go read Hebrews 3:7-4:11. You will see that I did not take it out of context and the importance of the Sabbath is emphasized.
As a life long SDA, I am not aware of anyone that has said you won’t be saved if you worship on Sunday, but it is clear that Sunday worship isn’t biblical. I even believe that there is an EGW quote to the effect that heaven will be full of people from all flocks. Sabbath keeping, back to basics, is a distinguishing mark of the remnant church that tries to stay true to God and his commands. Not to be confused with personal salvation. Question for you, why is the sabbath the only optional command? Especially when it is the only command God specifically says to remember?
I’m also an SDA. There is nothing wrong with worshipping on Sunday in the same context that is not wrong to worship on Monday or Tuesday. The Sabbath is a day of rest. We keep it holy by resting. We attend church service on Sabbath day as it’s tradition to get the word of God on the day of rest but to say it’s unbiblical to “worship “ on Sunday is false. My SDA church meets several times a week for prayer meetings and such. Your real objection with Sunday is the authority that Man can move the Sabbath day to Sunday. And say rest on Sunday or “the lords day.” This gives authority to Man not God. It really comes down to authority.
Yes it is biblical.
what is the remnant church
The mark of the beast has nothing to do with SDA or remnant church. SDA is not the remnant church. Markmof the beast is actually told to us in Rev. It will be on the forehead or right hand and will be needed to buy or sell. And to receive it you will need to call the anti Christ God and worship him. Please read a real Bible.
@@johnfoster5489 Jesus moved it when He said He is the Sabbath and rest and rose on the 3rd day, 1st day of the week. Sabbath was given to the Jews and it has much more attached to it then just worshipping on the 7th day. There are punishments associated with violating the Sabbath, like death. Are you doing that? 8f not, you are not following Sabbath laws.
I was raised Adventist, left the church at 17, and came to Christ a decade later. My parents still hold to the Adventist faith, having held it their entire adult lives. I wouldn’t consider them extremist Adventists, but they consider me to be apostate. I will die in my sin having taken the mark of the beast and be eternally separated from God unless I repent and return to the true faith. It’s sad, but my mother prays nightly for my salvation, and I do the same for their’s.
On a side, my personal experience with the church was one of constant judgement and works, focused primarily on sabbath keeping, but with dietary law sprinkled in for variety…
I understand how you feel. I believe there's a Sabbath, but I always felt it was a burden. My mom waited to after the Sabbath to open a card I sent her because she didn't want to break the Sabbath.
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
@@ctucker7002 1 John 5:3 (KJV)
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
@@KevinHammond1 It shouldn't be grievious - but it is for me.
@@KevinHammond1 well said. Of the 38 commandments of Christ clearly given in the new testament, I have failed to keep many of them. And of the Law I have failed over and over. Praise be to our Lord and Savior who has forgiven my weaknesses and failures. It is because of His mercy that I am able to love him at all. There is nothing I can do to draw near to him without his intervention in my life. But thank God for the promises of 1 John, especially Chapter 5! Through Jesus we overcome the world, we stop sinning, and the sin we continue to commit does not lead to death. We are sanctified slowly and surely for His Glory!
Luke 7:41-43
41“A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?” 43Simon answered, “The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt.” And he said to him, “You have judged rightly.”
John 6:28-29
28Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
Sabbath is not a worship day, it is a day of rest. We are not to work on the sabbath unless it is an emergency situation. We are to worship our Lord and Saviour everyday and rest from work one day a week on the sabbath. The sabbath is from Friday sundown until Saturday sundown. It is not a salvation issue. Why people confuse rest from work and worship is beyond me. Understand the words.
I remember reading a verse about a solemn assembly on the sabbath?
@@marjoriebourgouin2782 I would suggest Zev Porat, a messianic Jew, for clarification on that passage.
The Sabbath is traditionally understood as a day of rest, and its observance is rooted in the biblical account of creation, where God rested on the seventh day. In the Old Testament, the Sabbath is specifically observed from Friday evening to Saturday evening, as commanded in the Ten Commandments: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8-11). It is intended primarily as a day of rest, reflection, and worship for the Jewish people.
Sabbath Observance and Sunday Worship:
1. Day of Rest or Worship?
Jewish Tradition: The Sabbath (Saturday) is primarily a day of rest, though it also includes elements of worship, prayer, and community gathering.
Christian Tradition: For many Christians, the Sabbath concept evolved into a day of worship rather than strictly rest, especially as Christian practices developed distinct from Jewish traditions.
2. Saturday or Sunday?
Saturday: The original Sabbath, according to the Bible, is Saturday, observed by Jews and some Christian denominations like Seventh-day Adventists.
Sunday: Most Christians observe Sunday as their primary day of worship, not because it is the Sabbath but because it commemorates the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which occurred on the first day of the week (Sunday).
3. Change from Saturday to Sunday:
Who Changed It?: The shift from Saturday to Sunday was primarily influenced by the early Christian church. The change became more formalized under the Roman Emperor Constantine in 321 AD, who declared Sunday, "the venerable day of the sun," as a day of rest and worship.
Why?: The early Christians chose Sunday to honor the resurrection of Jesus. Over time, Sunday became the dominant day for Christian worship, distancing itself from Jewish traditions.
When?: The practice began in the early centuries after Christ and was formalized in the 4th century with Constantine’s decree.
While the Sabbath remains Saturday in its traditional sense, Sunday worship became a distinct practice in Christianity, signifying not just rest but the celebration of Christ's resurrection.
Contact Walter Veith and do an episode with him. He is wonderful and will clarify Biblical issues on SDA.
He will never do that, Allen punches down and not up.
@@kevint.2706 I wish Veith would do a rebuke on this video
Veith supports abortion in the SDA hospital's .
That would be something to see.
Ellen G White misinterpreted lots of scriptures in the Bible like her friend Charles Taze Russell they are cultists and following them ur in a cult... keeping the sabbath is simply this our works and GOD works are not the same GOD was creating things in 6 days and rested from that works on the 7th day. When GOD said keep the sabbath is to rest from the 'flesh' which means 'sin' keep it holy... Not physical works, remember Mark 2:27 even JESUS healed on the sabbath isn't that work?
The biggest problem I see here is that the true gospel doesn't allow room for the elevation of ANY commandment to such a status - you're saved by grace not works!
Hey brother Mike, love your content, very Biblical and insightful. I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian and would highly recommend reaching out to Pastor Doug Batchelor, he is head of Amazing Facts Ministries, and I think he would be willing to give a lovely explanation and clarification of what the Adventist church believes in a very balanced way. He does many talks and evangelistic series, and it never hurts to try to see if he could find time for an interview. Happy Thanksgiving as well!
11/26: Just thought of another resource to potentially reach out to, George Knight is an Adventist Historian and Theologian, he would be a great person if you wish to get more of a historical perspective.
Have you ever dealt into the SDA?
Yes, I have and I am one.
It is important to mention that Doug Batchelor is leaning much towards the conservative side and is often close to what this video call the "extreme" side. But I do think he would be good to talk to as long as you remember where he stands.
And that’s why any Christian should be careful when wanting to place a label on who is “conservative or liberal” and who is not. Going to talk with him could allow him to speak for himself.
I don't believe in organized religion, I think it's a mirror image of the Pharisees, but Pastor Doug and Amazing Facts is who God used to show me so many of His truths in the bible. It's sad how much of His holy word has been twisted throughout history. The Sabbath is absolutely important and should still be kept. I pray more see! I have no idea how anyone could say Doug Bachelor is "extreme". He's one of the most humble men I've ever listened to. He truly has a heart for God!
The last time I read my bible it said that the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23) not eternal punishment 🤔
According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.
The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).
The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).
The eternal punishment _is_ death, not eternal torment like a lot of people believe. It's eternal death that is executed at the final judgement, from which there will be no resurrection. Sure, there will be pain, but once it's over there's peace when the former things pass away.
@@JP-we6pi Like I said, the eternal punishment _is_ death. The lost are never promised eternal life, the only alternative is death. The 2nd death is an eternal death, with everlasting results. Notice that the word is "punish-_ment,"_ not "punish-_ing."_ While torment or pain may be involved in the punishment, it is not the ultimate punishment: death is. The process is not eternal, the results are.
Shabbat, or sabbath was/is Saturday for the Jews.
But the word actually means, "to rest, to cease from work."
There is nothing intrinsic in the word that means "Saturday."
The early church gathered together on The Lord's Day, which was the first day of the week.
If you read the book of Acts, and Revelation 1:10, you will find this mentioned.
@Judy Lloyd Amen, well said, well composed.
Nowhere in the Bible clearly states that Revelation 1v10 is the 1st Day of the Week or Sunday. Please read the verse again.
Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.
Please do not twist scripture.
Sunday Worship was created by a Decree after Jesus went to heaven. (Please Research). Read Mark 7v7.
If you worship on Sundays as your Sabbath, please STOP because you're in violation if the 4th Commandment.
@@rickhuntling7338 Please remember - Sunday Worship was created by Satan as a counterfeit to the real Sabbath.
I am pleading with you to STOP worshipping on Sundays as your Sabbath because you're in violation of the 4th Commandment found in Exodus 20v8-11.
Sunday Worship is a tradition. Read Mark 7v7.
@@MountCarmel007 nowhere in the bible does it say to gather on on the 7th day for worship.
Nowhere in the New Everlasting Covenant aka NT does it say to keep sabbath law.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say Sunday worship is breaking the law.
The bible does command us not to judge others in drink, meat, holidays, Newmoons and sabbaths .
Don't judge a man who regards another day in his own mind.
The bible says in Torah to stay home behind your own. gates on the sabbath, why?
The Torah says gather 2x manna on the 6th day.
Sabbath law say to do no work the 7th day, why
The bible says in Torah to cause nobody to work on the sabbath, why?
The sabbath law says kindle no fires, why?
The sabbath law says to put to death anyone that breaks these sabbath laws.
Hoe do you keep your 7th day? Do you break any of the above? Why did you judge us for breaking the 4th commanment? Why would I keep a 7th day sign between the children of and GOD if I'm not Jewish nor am I under Torah Mosaic covenant?
Is your LORD of the Sabbath only LORD one day of the week? My LORD promised wheresoever two or three are gathered in my name I AM there amongst them. Is this a promise made only for thre 7th day?
What covenant are you under?
@@MountCarmel007 You will see the first day of the week mentioned as the Lord's day in the book of Acts, though, so it must have become a familiar term to the church.
Jesus said He is Lord of the sabbath, as a way of letting the Pharisees know that He wasn't bound to follow their rules for the sabbath.
I'm a Seventh-day Adventist and maybe can explain the Investigative Judgment a little more clearly (what we believe). So we agree with you that Christ's atoning sacrifice was completed at His death on the cross. There was nothing else that Jesus needed to do to complete salvation. Thank God for that! So Seventh-day Adventist don't believe that Christ is in heaven "working" somehow to complete his atoning sacrifice. No, that work has been done.
The Investigative Judgment is about the 2-phase ministry in heaven that Christ has been doing on behalf of His followers on earth. The earthly sanctuary (temple in the wilderness) had two compartments. The High Priest of this earthly sanctuary had a job to do both in the main compartment of the sanctuary and in the most holy compartment (smaller room) of the sanctuary on earth. You can study about this in the first five books of the Bible.
This sanctuary service on earth (all parts of it) reflects the sanctuary in heaven and the plan of salvation that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit planned before humans were ever created. So when Christ completed his death on the cross, he rose to heaven and offered evidence of his atoning sacrifice on behalf of sinners (us) on earth. This should not be hard to understand.
Christ completed his sacrifice and then when he returned to heaven he began his work of interceding on behalf of us who believe in him and ask for his forgiveness because of this atoning sacrifice on the cross. Christ mingles his words (in heaven) with our requests on earth for the forgiveness of sins. What I mean is that when we pray to God and ask for forgiveness of sin, Christ declares in heaven "I payed the ultimate price so that this sinner might be forgiven of this sin." The record of our requests for forgiveness and all of our prayerful requests are noted in heaven in the books of heaven. There are many Biblical texts that show our prayers are recorded in heaven.
What I have just described is Jesus Christ working as our High Priest in the same way that the high priest in the earthly sanctuary also offered incense and offerings (lambs) for atonement (forgiveness). To understand this fully, a Christian needs to delve into the ministry of the High Priest in the earthly sanctuary which is found in the first 5 books of the Bible.
So now on to the Investigative Judgment. At a certain point in time, Christ's ministry in heaven moved Him into the Holy of Hollies (the smaller room). In this second phase of his ministry in heaven (which was also shown by the High Priest on earth doing this specific work on the day of atonement), Jesus Christ prepares for the final redemption of mankind (2nd coming of Christ). In this second phase, all sins that have been recorded in the books in heaven under your name are examined (as a form of book-keeping) and if you have requested forgiveness and are in a saving relationship with Christ, they are eternally and irrevocably pardoned. This second phase of the investigative judgment continues right up until the second coming of Christ.
One might ask why are there two phases of Christ's investigative judgment in heaven. There are several reasons. First just like the High Priest in the earthly sanctuary offered sacrifices on behalf of those who came to the temple every day confessing their sins, so too Christ offers his sacrifice (evidence of his death on the cross) as we confess our sins. Christ shows on our behalf that we have a right to the forgiveness of our sins because of what he did by living a sinless life and dying on the cross. Next just like in the earthly sanctuary, the High Priest moved one time a year into the most holy place (also called the Holy of Holies). Christ moved into the heavenly compartment (Holy of Holies) to show that all our sins are forgiven (our entire lifetime of sins), not just the ones we daily confess. Our sins are blotted out once and for all time.
At Christ's second coming, all who are saved will have had the record books in heaven show two things: First the books will show that we asked for the forgiveness of specific sins, and second that we are in a saving relationship with Christ, continually requesting His saving grace and the assistance of the Holy Spirit to follow God's will. The books will show in both cases that Christ has forgiven specific sins, and also has declared us to be in a saving relationship with Him. Thus allowing us to be redeemed when He comes.
At the second coming of Christ, Jesus will not be investigating anyone and applying His atoning sacrifice to any specific person's account in heaven. That has already been done over the past couple of thousand years leading up to His coming. The investigative judgment is clearly found in the Bible and most Christians have some inkling that this is true. We know that Jesus Christ is our High Priest in heaven (many scripture passages talk about this) but most Christians don't understand the details. If you think of it in relation to the idea of a big clearinghouse -a large ongoing investigation of the books of heaven, then you have the right idea.
You don't need to understand all of the details of the investigative judgment to achieve salvation through Jesus Christ, but delving into a study of the earthly ministry of the high priest in ancient Israel and also into what Christ is doing in the heavenly sanctuary is absolutely thrilling. The investigative judgment clearly shows how wonderful and perfect our Savior truly is. The reason the books in heaven are investigated is because our very salvation depends on Christ presenting evidence to the courts of heaven of His atoning sacrifice on our behalf, both on a daily basis and finally when Christ declares "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega." Revelation 21:6-7
Paul had church on SUNDAY --- Acts 20:7
Unfortunately the Seventh Day Adventists give Sabbath-keeping a bad name.
No one should base the commands given by God based off any humans or religious groups. The Sabbath has not belong to anyone, but given to us by God.
How do SDA give sabbath keeping a bad name ? what a stupid comment!
@@mikeforfar9493 Because of all the baggage that comes along with SDAs. Mention to someone you go to church on Saturday, they think you are either Jewish or Adventist.
@@peterfox7663 anybody who suggests, assume, what man made religion you are based on the fact you are keeping God’s commandments have scales on their eyes already.
@@peterfox7663 just trying to figure out where?
Problem is people are on a lot of hearsay and dont go find out for themselves who these so called bad Sabbath keepers are? Maybe pick up there 28 fundamentals and not read all that stuff about EGW and the rest of it..
The Sabbath is amongst the other 9 commandments. I respectfully disagree that it isn’t required.
Absolutely
The sabbath was exclusively given to the Israelites. They were responsible for keeping it. The Bible clearly says the Israelites or the children of Israel were to keep the sabbath. It never says Gentiles are to keep it. It’s not an interpretations problem. It is a LITERACY problem.
EXODUS 31:16 - The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a permanent covenant.
31:17 - “It is a sign forever between me and the Israelites, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.
@@Failur3i5n0tan0pt1on thanks for the backhanded insult, but I still disagree
@@peacefulpatriots do you have anything productive to add like, I dunno, the reasons you disagree
Speaking of exclusive, you’re not the only person who disagrees with ACCURATE READING of scripture. There are many people who disagree with scripture like atheist, Muslims, apparently SDA’s, etc. Quite the crowd to share similar positions. 👍🏾
Q1] When were we reconciled to God the Father?
A1] “While we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to Him through the death of his Son”. Romans 5:10
Q2] What did Jesus cry out just before His death on the cross?
A2] “It is finished” John 19:30
Q3] What was finished?
A3] Our reconciliation (redemption) to God the Father through Christ’s doing and dying.
Q4] What day did Christ die?
A4] “It was Preparation Day (Friday), and the Sabbath was about to begin.” Luke 23:54
Q5] What did God the Father do on the Sabbath?
A5] “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” Hebrews 4:4 Just as in creation God rested from His perfect work, now at the completion of His work of redemption, God the Father rested from His perfect work “in Christ Jesus”.
Q6] What is the believer’s response?
A6] “For (every man) who enters God’s rest (the gospel) also rests (the Sabbath) from his works, just as God did from His (work of redemption in Christ).”
Q7] What is the Sabbath a seal of to the believer?
A7] The Sabbath, when understood, is a sign, a seal of the righteousness that that the believer already had by faith. The NT believer is to rest on the Sabbath as God rested on the 7th-day from His perfect and finished work of redemption “in Christ Jesus.”
Wrong, the law of God has not been abolished (see Matt 5:17,18) The law points us to Christ so that we might be justified by faith. Once justified we have been delivered from under the law. To remain under law is to remain under the sentence of death (i.e., the curse of the law). Does that mean it is okay to live a life of sin? Does that mean it's okay to commit adultery as a lifestyle? To steal as a lifestyle? To murder as a lifestyle? Or must we repent when we "fail to walk in the Spirit"? No, while we aren't under the law as a matter of salvation, the law is a standard of Christian living. If not, explain this: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor 6:9,10 In fact 1 John 3:9 says, "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." What is sin? "I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting (10th commandment) if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” Rom 7:7
@@veritasmuy2407 You are ignoring the context of Hebrews 4:9,10. Let's try again: "So there remains a Sabbath rest (i.e., Greek: sabbatismos
- "a keeping of the sabbath") for the people of God." Weren't the Jews keeping the Sabbath? Yes, they were keeping the day to be saved. That's salvation by works. Jesus, through Paul, gave them the Sabbath under the NC a new meaning: Verse 10 "For the one (Jew or Gentile) who has entered His rest (accepted the gospel - see Heb 4:2,3) has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His."
Question: From what did God rest? Whatever it is, the one who has accepted the gospel is to also "rest from his works, as God did from His." And when did God rest? Well, let's go back to Heb 4:4: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works."
Just as God rested from His perfect creative works at the end of the 6th day, we now we see God resting from His perfect redemptive work "in Christ Jesus" at the end of the 6th-day (see Luke 23:54). God is no longer resting from His perfect creation because it has been ruined by the entrance of sin. If not creation, then it must be redemption. Verse 10: "The one who has accepted the gospel has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His."
@@r.broyles463 I see Veritas Muy and another account harassing people in this video. Your assessment is correct.
@@veritasmuy2407 you're the Pharasee. Your points have been refuted more than once, rinse, repeat, you're harassing people.
@@veritasmuy2407 and again, more harassment. He already addressed your points.
My Adventist upbringing and education was somewhat forced upon me and i'll tell you the older i get the more and more thankful i am for it. One of the things that turns me off about all churchs is the constant gossip and people thinking and worrying about whos right and whos wrong.
You don't have that in the SDA? That's funny, my brother in-law has been complaining of infighting and turmoil in the SDA and he's been a member since childhood. I'll have to tell him what you said, see how he responds.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus Gossip is everywhere. I love my SDA church, will never go anywhere else
Myself the same, I wanted to walk out of the church but needed a single writing of EGW to show proof atleast to my parents that her writings are against God's words. But years after years and her books after books, I couldn't find fault with her writings, infact each time against coming in to find fault, I was amazed and disappointed how in perfect accordance with the Bible her writings are. I thank God and I now remain here after 3 decades of lifetime
I would love to sit down and study through the Bible through the 28 fundamental beliefs of the SDA church with anyone who is interested. I believe that the official stance on all doctrines in the Adventist church can stand alone with the Bible, set Ellen White aside and the Bible will still back up boldly every belief that the SDA church stands on!
Hey Gage, I would like to take you up on that offer. Please dm me.
@@veritasmuy2407 Jesus used the Greek word Gehenna to refer to the place we often translate as “hell” in many of the English Bible translations. It’s the same word He used in the Matthew 10:28 verse we just read. Gehenna was the name of a literal valley (Valley of Hinnom) just south of Jerusalem, believed to be a place where Israelite children were sacrificed by fire in a pagan ritual (Jeremiah 7:31, 32:35; 2 Kings 23:10). “And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into My heart.” (Jeremiah 7:31, NKJV)
You must not miss what God said in this text. He says that what the Israelites did to their children in the Valley of Hinnom had never even entered His heart. He is so troubled by their grotesquely cruel act, that He prophecies that their current path will lead to eventual ruin. There is no way in [Gehenna] God is going to vehemently stand against the act of sacrificing children by fire, then turnaround and do the same thing to His children in the same valley. Like it didn’t enter His heart that anyone could do something like that, but now in the end He suddenly has the heart to do the equivalent and even worse? I’m not buying it and you shouldn’t either.
I think Christ used a familiar scene to His audience where Israel brought about their own needless suffering, independent of an act on God’s part. The fires in Gehenna had nothing to do with God, but rather the false god, Molech. The psalmist David accuses them of sacrificing their children to “demons” (Psalm 106:37, CEV). Yes, demons, because the act of burning your children alive is demonic.
Gehenna was a valley of deep shame that represents the experience of a people who chose to disconnect from God and brought about their own disastrous end. Yet, the valley didn’t just have historical significance to Jesus’ audience; it also had a foreboding future prophesied by Christ in Matthew 24. Jesus’ fiery description of Gehenna came to pass when the valley, the City of Jerusalem, and the temple were destroyed with fire by Roman legions in AD 70. Many of Jesus’ detractors and those who conspired to crucify Him were engulfed in the flames of Gehenna. And even in that situation God wasn’t responsible for the fire. Though a literal and historical application may be used to understand Jesus’ use of the word Gehenna, I see it more as a metaphor for sin’s combustible implosion.
So, what do we do with these intense images of everlasting fire and torment? After all, hyperbolic or not, they are in the Bible. Well, let’s take a closer look at the texts that deal with everlasting fire. God threatened to destroy the walls of Jerusalem with an “unquenchable fire” (Jeremiah 17:27, NIV), and the Babylonians eventually did burn them down. But are those walls still burning today? An “eternal fire” destroyed Sodom (Jude 1:7, NIV), but it’s not burning anymore either. And though it was prophesied that Edom “...will burn day and night, and smoke will rise from it forever,” smoke is still not billowing today. (Isaiah 34:9-11, GNT)
When the Bible describes fire as “unquenchable,” “eternal” or “everlasting,” it simply means it will burn without ceasing until it has accomplished its purpose. Firefighters will not be able to douse the flames. The fire burns until there is no more wood in the fireplace. When these terms are used to describe the final outcome of sin, they’re stating that the end result of the destruction is everlasting; however, the process is not. This view is traditionally called annihilationism (or conditional mortality), supported in the Bible by texts such as in the book of Malachi: “Not a root or a branch will be left of them.” (Malachi 4:1, NIV)
If God isn’t trying to scare us with fire, then why does He use it as an example at all? Well, let’s continue to reexamine Scripture for the answer. In examining Isaiah 66 (which also takes place in the Valley of Hinnom) and Revelation 20, we see the two most commonly cited chapters that depict the final judgement of the wicked involving fire. “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” (Isaiah 66:24, NIV). Revelation’s imagery is different but still involves fire. “Then death and Hades [world of the dead] were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death” (Revelation 20:14, NIV).
So, what did you notice that was consistent in these representations? Fire, yes. Death, yes. But did you notice the order? Everything being consumed with fire is already dead. Fire is not the instrument of torture, nor seemingly the cause of death. Fire is the cleansing agent of that which is already dead. In fact, there is even a report that Gehenna also served as a burning heap for refuse and for a number of dead bodies (usually criminals executed by Rome).
Notwithstanding the order of events in these passages, it’s hard to escape just how hyperbolic these texts sound. Seriously! Look at the details in these descriptions. Are these worms that don’t die fire-retardant? How can “death” be thrown into the lake of fire if it isn’t a person or place? Isn’t it interesting that Revelation 20:14 tells us that the lake of fire is the second death and not that which causes death? In a book like Revelation that is steeped in symbolism, in which almost everything is not what it seems, I find it curious that we take some parts literally. When the author John specifically defines what a symbol is, we should take him at his word.
We cannot take every parable or illustration in Scripture as literal for many logistical and spiritual reasons. The Bible’s and Jesus’ teachings are full of symbols and metaphors. Their purpose is to create deeper, more relatable impressions for the listeners. God uses hyperbole for the same reasons we do. Are you so hungry you can eat an actual horse? Does that bag really weigh a ton? Did your parents really kill you because of the bad grades in your report card?
With hyperbole, you must also consider the time period in which words were spoken or written. The books of the Bible were written during extremely violent periods. Just considering the time in which the book of Revelation was written, it would have been normal to go to the local Walmart and see crucified criminals hanging in the parking lot. And Rome’s version of the Super Bowl involved gladiator death matches and mass executions for public entertainment. I’d say the terrifying description of hell in Scripture had to compete with the hell they were living on earth just to grab their attention.
God is confined to the use of language, so He must use symbols, metaphors, and parables to describe something that would otherwise remain indescribable. But all the biblical imageries, namely, worms that don’t die, unquenchable fire, chains of darkness, outer darkness, and weeping and gnashing of teeth (2 Peter 2:4, Matthew 8:12, NIV), all communicate the same basic idea: sin has inevitable consequences-they are final-and we shouldn’t want any part of it.
@@veritasmuy2407 I’m having a difficult time tracking with you so I hope I’m responding to what I think you’re addressing. Jesus death redeemed EVERYONE. That’s Romans 5. All were justified by Jesus one righteous act. Romans 4 says that God’s gift is justification for the “ungodly.” Every sin was paid for in full. So God’s love and forgiveness is the same for His friends, as it is for His enemies-in fact He died for His enemies (Romans 5). The only difference between the “wicked” and the saved is not forgiveness-it’s choice. The wicked do not want to live in His presence and prefer death (pray for rocks to crush them). “The lake of fire IS the second death” (Rev. 20:14). It’s symbolism for the end of death, hades/the grave, and the lost. It should not be taken literally. If God wanted to torture the wicked in flames He’d chain them to His side since scripture says for the wicked His presence is a consuming fire . Nope, instead God allows them to experience eternal death, which for them is what they pray for. Yes, even in the end God chooses mercy for those He loved and died for. Yes, even for His enemies.
@@veritasmuy2407 I’ve already provided scripture to support the annihilation viewpoint. Solomon says, “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten” (Eccl. 9:5). Again, Malachi says both “root and branch” will be destroyed. Revelation says “THE SMOKE of their torment will rise for ever and ever (Rev. 14:11). Don’t miss the symbolism. Revelation is steeped in symbolism and metaphors and it should be clear when metaphors are being used. All Revelation 14:11 is communicating that evil will be completely obliterated, never to rise again. Smoke is literally particles that have been transformed and escape into the atmosphere.
If everyone who rejects God’s gift, which is their God-given right to do, why would Jesus claim it would be more bearable on the day of judgment for these notorious wicked cities than Jerusalem, because had Jesus performed the same miracles in them they’d be around today??(Matthew 11). Or do you think God makes the fire sting a little more for certain individuals??
The Bible also doesn’t teach an eternal spirit. Nowhere in the Old Testament is it taught. It’s a Roman/Greek belief and we have read our beliefs into those texts. If hell were to burn forever than the universe would never be rid of evil. AND what would be the logical point to prolong suffering?? It’s a sick and demented teaching that not even the likes of Hitler would practice. You wouldn’t do that to your own children and your for certain aren’t more loving or merciful than God. “What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Heavenly Father…”(Luke 11:11-13 ESV). God’s ways are “higher than ours” not lower (Isaiah 55:7-9).
“There is no fear in love, for perfect love cast out all fear. For fear has to do with torment (1 John 4:18). “God is love” John states in the same letter. Which means there is no fear in God, God is perfect and casts out all fear, because FEAR has to do with torment.
@@veritasmuy2407 Solomon may not have been up to speed on the resurrection (rewards) BUT his words are STILL a part of inspiration AND the point I’m making still stands. Solomon say in the same book that when a person dies their body returns to dust and their breath/spirit/ruach returns to God (Eccl. 12:7). According to your interpretation of the New Testament you would say that the spirit is conscious, right? Most who believe in an eternal conscious spirit use this text to support that a conscious (saved) spirit immediately returns to God in Heaven. Yet the the author just told us three chapters ago that the “dead know nothing.” Meaning that there is no more consciousness. What we know from the Old Testament AND the New Testament is that death is likened to unconsciousness. Jesus and Paul’s own description of it is a sleep (Matt. 9:24, John 11:11-14, 1 Thess. 4:13, and more). So “death” is like sleeping. Not my words-God’s. And when you look at the end Isaiah 66, and it speaks of the unquenchable fire, and the worms that don’t die, it’s describing what’s happening to “dead bodies.” When you look at Jesus’ metaphors/parables of the wheat and tares and the vine and the branches, the weeds and branches are cut off, and wither (dead) before they’re burned. And the final description of the destruction of the lost in the Bible, Revelation 20, describes them as ALREADY dead before the lake of fire. “The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death” (Revelation 20:13, 14). We won’t even get into how “death” is thrown into the lake of fire but it’s clear enough we’re dealing with symbolism. And John tells us EXACTLY what that symbolism represents. The lake of fire IS (not that which causes) the second death/sleep. Which is my friend, using all the definitions and similes in the Old Testament and New, an eternal unconsciousness of which there is no return. They’re dead, not eternally dying.
All the texts I’ve used are clear about what death is like-sleep/unconsciousness. I’ve given numerous texts that described unquenchable/everlasting fire yet the objects of destruction aren’t burning right now (i.e. Sodom). Unquenchable fire just means a fire that the fire department can’t douse. Lazarus and the little girl Jesus raised give no description of being Heaven or purgatory while they were dead because they “knew nothing.” There is no text that says that evil conscious spirits live in eternal torment. The closest you can find is in Revelation 14 but even in that description it says the “smoke of their torment.” Can’t have smoke unless something is burned up(destroyed)-literally speaking. And if you don’t take it literally, which you shouldn’t, you’ll see that the description is communicating the eternal eradication of evil. In other words. Evil will never exist again.
The God you’re describing is evil. He’s worse than the devil. Working a miracle to keep people alive in never ending torment is the the most satanic teaching. No wonder so many have turned away from the church. We’ve presented a character of God that is worse than the most evil this earth has ever witnessed.
Let's tackle the subject of the Sabbath:
Many denominations claim that the Sabbath is old covenant and therefore it was nailed to the cross. They site Col 2:16
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ"
Is Paul discussing dietary laws here? What's the context? Paul is discussing the ceremonial laws out of the Old Testament. The Sabbath from the moral law predated the fall of mankind and was therefore never ceremonial.
Yes, God rested the Sabbath because His work was finished and complete, but you can't say that the 4th commandment is ceremonial. However, you can state that God is no longer resting because His creative works were destroyed by the entrance of sin.
The purpose of these ritual laws was to point the Jews to Christ's future work of atonement using the sacrificial system. There were drink offerings, meat offerings, new moon offerings and special holydays and sabbath days . You can read about it in Leviticus chapter 23. Once Christ fulfilled these symbols, they became useless. Hence, don’t judge one another because clearly these shadows came to and end:
"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices, there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." Heb 10:1-4
So when Paul says, "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike" (Romans 14:5) he had these holydays and sabbaths in mind. Some were weekly...others monthly and some yearly. Again, read about it in Leviticus chapter 23.
Then in Hebrews, Paul states: "There remains a Sabbath rest (Greek: sabbatismos) for the people of God"! Here's how sabbatismos is defined: "a keeping of the Sabbath". So Paul is telling the Jews that a keeping of the Sabbath remains.
Weren't the Jews already keeping the Sabbath? Yes, they were keeping the day, but everything they did was a legalistic attempt at meriting heaven and eternal life by “the works of the law”.
What, then, did the Apostle Paul have in mind concerning the Sabbath? Let’s read the context: “There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest (i.e., a keeping of the Sabbath) for the people of God (the Jews who had reject Christ); 10 for anyone (both Jew and Gentile) who enters God’s rest (i.e., accepts the gospel - see verses 2 & 3) also rests from their works, just as God did from His.”
Here's an important question: From what did God rest? Keep in mind that when God enters His rests it’s not because He is tired. When God enters His rest that means that His work is complete and finished. There is no improving on God’s perfect work.
Back to Hebrews 4:4 “For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: ‘On the seventh day God rested from all his works.’” From what did He rest? A perfect creation. As already discussed, God’s work of creation was ruined by sin through the fall of mankind. If our world would have never fallen into sin, then God would still be resting, but the fact is He came out of that eternal rest to redeem us through His Son.
Is the work of God, through Christ, finished or can we add something to it? According to Paul God’s work “in Christ” is a finished and perfect work. What did God do when He finished His perfect and complete work “in Christ”? Did He not rest the 7th-day from His perfect work in Christ? Let’s review:
Luke 23:44-46 “Around noon the sky turned dark and stayed that way until the middle of the afternoon. The sun stopped shining, and the curtain in the temple split down the middle. Jesus cried out, ‘Father, I put myself in your hands!’ Then he died….54 It was Friday, and the Sabbath was about to begin.”
Note that Jesus died just before the Sabbath was about to begin. What did Jesus state just before He died? “It is finished!’ Then he bowed his head and died.” (John 19:30) What was finished? “We were reconciled to God through the death of his Son”. Romans 5:10 “Through one act of righteousness (Christ’s death upon the cross) there resulted justification of life to all men” Romans 5:18
What was finished? God’s work of redemption “in Christ Jesus”! What did God do? God rested the 7th-day from His complete and perfect work of redemption “in Christ Jesus”. God’s rest was eternal because His work of redemption cannot be improved on. We are “complete in Christ” alone. The Sabbath, then, becomes a new covenant symbol that points to the finished work of God “in Christ”.
Back to Hebrews 4:10 “Anyone (Jew or Gentile) who enters God’s rest (i.e., accepts the gospel - see verses 2 & 3) also rests from their works, just as God did from His.”
Just as God rested the Sabbath as sign of His perfect and final work of redemption, the believer is to likewise rest the Sabbath as sign that they can add nothing to God’s finished work in Christ! The Sabbath, when properly understood, is anything but legalistic! This will be the issue of the Sabbath and the mark of beast in earth’s last hour. Those standing under the umbrella of justification by faith will outwardly rest the Sabbath as sign they can add nothing to God’s finished work in Christ. Those who oppose the Sabbath will oppose justification by faith alone. This is future according to the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. At that time Sabbath keeping will become a test of faith. Keep the faith!
I like that SDA's approach prophecy in a strong way. Evangelicals almost always ignore Revelation unless they're trying to sell some books.
Edit:
After reading some EGW.. Most of what she wrote is fine, I don't think she was qualified to talk about the Bible. She clearly understands it more than the average person but it seems like her ruminations would make alterations and she would write down whatever was in her head, often times being mildly inaccurate and once in a while being VERY wrong/ even heretical.
From my perspective though, the theology of most SDA is preserved because most of them hold the Bible in higher regard and in my opinion pretty much all the SDA's I have come across online seem to be indistinguishable from an authentic Christian. In eschatology discussion groups I met a fellow who pretty much didn't care about EGW.
What about her though? I think she was sincere, she was a Christian but she had no business calling herself a prophetess or teaching.
True
Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. Examine everything carefully, hold to that which is good and abstain from every form of evil
@@BrandonGray ?
Ellen G White has said herself her writings does not supercede GOD's word. She is simply an instrument that GOD used to direct people to HIS Word.
Have you read through the Timothy's? I bet she didnt
She was a false prophet. Call it what it is
We were taught growing up there was a closed SDA and an open SDA. We belonged to the open. Ellen G White was very rarely talked about and my mother explained years later Ellen was considered a Prophet and they didn't just hand out titles like that willy nilly. There was an us and them mentality regarding Charismatic churches in particular. I left SDA because I never felt Gods love just condemnation. Seeing the huge pendulum swings in the Charismatic movements now I can respect the need for careful and mindful movement regarding the Holy Spirit as I seek to find that balance in my Apostolic Church. My father was anointed and prayed for by an SDA Pastor before he passed, it was all about Jesus, being right with his maker, knowing that Jesus was with him in the midst of his final battle. He read The Lord is my shepherd and sang amazing grace. My father passed that evening. We had the Funeral at the SDA Church and they were so loving and helpful. I don't ever stop and think my cousins aren't saved. Their core Christian beliefs are the same as mine. How they view me I don't know but they have never shunned or rejected me. SDA has its faults and Idiosyncrasies but Soooo many Churches do. Even our pastor promotes books and people and prophets from the pulpit. I guess the question we all have to ask ourselves in the end is...ARE YOU A PEOPLE FOLLOWER OR A CHRIST FOLLOWER. I would LOVE to hear a Sermon on that!
@Anissa Hodgson
SDA is a different Gospel, different after life, different JESUS.
I can attest to Some of things you say or right but the SDA is not a Christian Church I grew up Southern Baptist and there are some things that they do they're not aligned with the Bible their belief of once saved always saved and if you pray this one prayer than your saved well you have to actually mean that prayer you have to actually follow the word of God but I noticed a lot of churches are too afraid to preach Revelations
@@deathcorenerd8266they believe jesus christ died as a perfect sacrifice for the sins of all humanity
We are all seeking for Truth about GOD these days. The church that does not apply biblical principles nor let the Word of GOD be their guide or live by its precepts or direct it's congregation towards JESUS is falsehood.
Mike, I would love if you did that study on Ellen White’s writings. Super curious about that!
So for Hell "forever and ever" means for ever but the everlasting covenant of the sabbath that God himself wrote "Remember" with his own hand, is not forever?
🧐
Remember until you forget
I agree most Christians hate the 4th commandment and I don't know why
@@Lakishia This is the absolute best way to prevent anyone from taking your point of view seriously.
It’s not Sunday worship that is the issue. We can worship God on everyday of the week. Including sunday. BUT we are commanded by God to keep the sabbath which is essentially rest, is what the Seventh-day Adventist believe. Worship God on every day of the week, but we are commanded to rest on the Sabbath, which is Friday evening to Saturday evening